BTC Sessions - Why Bitcoin Investor Jeff Booth is Now on the Defensive | AI Deflationary Collapse

Starting point is 00:00:00 And we're all falling into the same trap, exact same trap. Everyone's Venezuela. And they think they're smarter than those Venezuelans. Once you've set up a credit-based system like that, that system can't allow deflation. So it cannot allow the free market to work. The product of the miracle that they're talking about in a world with hard money is faster deflation. Bitcoin is imposing essentially the first free market that's ever existed. That's Jeff Booth, brilliant entrepreneur, founding partner of ego death capital and author of The Price of Tomorrow,

Starting point is 00:00:29 a book explaining why the chaos we're seeing was unavoidable. In this episode, we explore the inevitable collapse of the existing system. There's no possible way that that system can be resolved in that system. How to protect yourself. And you can take your own steps to be able to protect yourself and your family. And systemic threats to Bitcoin. If you still couldn't kill it, what would you do? You try to co-opt.

Starting point is 00:00:51 Jeff also reveals why he just left Canada. I just moved from Canada for the very same reason. All right, Jeff. thank you so much for joining us to kick off the conversation. I wanted to touch on a little bit of what we're seeing in gold. And the reason being is that I very much kind of view Bitcoin as the optimist sound money and gold is kind of the pessimist sound money. And where I'm coming from on that is a lot of times when people, gold bugs come and talk to me, I'll get the like, well, what about if there's no power and what about if there's no internet? And what if we have this mad max state?

Starting point is 00:01:22 It's very kind of dumerism in the outlook for the future. And with that, currently gold is outrunning Bitcoin year to date in terms of price appreciation measured in the old system. And I'm wondering if that is, in your view, reflective of anything. I'm curious if it may be reflected of mood or kind of fear or sentiment out there as well, too, or even possibly if we may have reached a short-term plateau in kind of the everyman adoption. I don't know about you, but I'm not getting a lot of questions about Bitcoin these days. Yeah. Gold has always been the reference point for hard money, right? Just so in any previous cycle. So it would be normal that more people would think of gold as a reference point than Bitcoin because Bitcoin's newer understood.

Starting point is 00:02:05 So I think that's all you're saying. The gold typically moves first and then Bitcoin moves a lot more afterwards. And if you were a central bank, most central banks don't want Bitcoin, but they would take gold. Right. So if you're purchasing and trying to keep your monopoly on money, then you probably need something that can centralize. So I just think we're so early in the understanding of what Bitcoin is, that Bitcoin is imposing essentially the first free market that's ever existed. And there's many more people in the world that look backwards on what has always happened in history.

Starting point is 00:02:49 And gold would be a good proxy. No, that makes sense. In terms of that sort of being so early, and it feels like, again, I know that we have commercial entities, and institutions getting into the space at this point. We have that kind of nation state dabbling a little bit. But even with the thing, like things feel very divided. It feels like it is getting worse, but it could be that I'm way too much in the noise.

Starting point is 00:03:10 Is there anything that you think is kind of the hurdle that people are still struggling to get over to see Bitcoin to start to see that new system? Yeah, absolutely. So it's it's your, you're insanely early. If you're running a podcast in this system, like you're insanely early from a, you're insanely early from, to me it's pretty remarkable that it's actually so simple. The natural state of the free market is deflation.

Starting point is 00:03:39 We've never experienced, meaning we've never experienced the global free market before. And all of our previous beliefs have to move to understand that by moving to Bitcoin and taking agency and running a node in Bitcoin,

Starting point is 00:03:59 You are moving yourself out of that other system into a new system. And if the natural state of the free market is inflation, which it certainly is, then more people in that system, more people competing to provide value to other people, creates faster depletion forever. If you understand Bitcoin at that level, that this is the first decentralized secure protocol bounded by energy that's ever existed open to anybody. and you've removed your own cognitive dissidents and moved to the new system and now you're teaching other people.

Starting point is 00:04:36 You just have to ask, what would this transition look like from every single person changing their beliefs and understanding what I just said and moving through? All of the noise that is always their past, right? So how do we learn things? We typically have a mental model of the world and we add things to our mental model. So when something challenges our mentor model of the world, all of our information to describe the world has always been from that mental model and something completely eradicates that mental model, it can be true, but we might not believe it. Right? So it's an objective reality that's true, but it's our own belief system that's constructing the world and we're measuring it.

Starting point is 00:05:24 So most even Bitcoiners today, I don't think have moved through to understand what's actually happening. They're still measuring the world from fiat currency and converting Bitcoin to their fiat currency in a belief that prices always go up. And it's wild to me that they can know for sure that the natural state of the free market is deflation and still do that. right and and so i'm not saying that that's bad good anything else it just is and that that's why this is so so hard when we want to think we want to believe we're smarter than everyone and you and me or we're better and everybody else is is not right we kind of um but we're all kind of caught in this really crazy dilemma of a of a change with such magnitude that's never existed before that we are a part of that most people are still measuring from a different system.

Starting point is 00:06:25 So then ask yourself from that, what would this look like? What would this change look like? As every single human being on the planet had to go through the same thing, as every politician, as every institution had to go through the exact same thing, it would look as chaotic, it would look exactly like it looks. right it would look all of that it is what's still coming to try to kill bitcoin is is essentially our mindset within that system not realizing we have agency in a new system and giving our power away to that system that's trying to control us so so yeah this is going to be very

Starting point is 00:07:09 chaotic on the way through because the changes in bitcoin the changes in us It's a very interesting perspective. I'm curious if you have any thoughts on, and I heard you speak about it a little bit with Preston recently as well, too. The impact of AI large language models, I can almost see them being used as a system of control, but I can also see it being used as an accelerator for the chaos and bringing people to the new space as well too. So for example, if AI ends up threatening white collar jobs, people that may have benefited from the existing system and are no longer benefiting from the existing system, while that would cause chaos, that pain point might be enough for them to re- re-evaluate the mental models that they're using and take a deeper look. So you have people that with far more reach than I do, perpetuating a lie, whether they believe it or not, that we're going to have this productivity miracle that is going to solve the problem. The productivity miracle that they're talking about in a world, with hard money is faster deflation. Faster deflation can't solve a monetary system that's been built that requires inflation.

Starting point is 00:08:27 So there is no productivity miracle that solves us. The productivity miracle that they're talking about makes it worse by centralizing faster. And all of the people that are measuring from that centralized faster and listening to Elon Musk about this or other people spout this, the productivity miracle, don't know that. that they're contributing to the thing they're most scared of because the job is going away. And they're inside a system that when the job goes away, the prices are way higher because we've manipulated money and centralized. So they're inside a system that they're requiring, when I said agency moving to another system, they're requiring their entire agency is tied to somebody else's

Starting point is 00:09:08 beliefs. Their entire thing is somebody else controls me. because they control the money. And it has to steal that productivity, that productivity of miracle that should flow to all of us and concentrated in very few hands. So they're going to get wrecked. They're going to get destroyed. They're going to get destroyed.

Starting point is 00:09:30 And while they get destroyed and wrecked from that system, they'll believe more in the centralizing of that system and it's other people's fault. It's almost like a turn to the strong man thing. Things are getting harder. so they look for somebody else to deal with it. Totally. And that's why this is so hard, because it's their own agency.

Starting point is 00:09:53 It's everyone's own agency and understanding first, is it true that the natural state of the free market is deflation? And first, you should go deeply on that. And if that is true, then economics can be explained to a five-year. Add more people in competition to provide value to you. you use more of value when prices fall faster. That's it. That's all of economics, meaning every construct that they've known of economics and why

Starting point is 00:10:24 they're scared to ask that simple question is from the control system they've already always been a part of. And they're really afraid to question the basic assumption that they've always known. Be true. Gary, did you have any thoughts there? Yeah. I mean, first of all, Jeff, it's wonderful to have you here. listen to so many of your podcasts and it's so just it's a breath of fresh air it's inspiring um i

Starting point is 00:10:50 i recently read your book and by read i mean listen to and by your book i mean three-fifths of your book and uh i didn't get all the way through uh but just for i think a lot of our listeners sort of already get the idea and when presented i think a lot of us intuitively get it that uh the natural state of mankind is is deflationary uh we use words like inflation and deflation sort of as a substitute for price go up, price go down. But if you don't mind, could you sort of just give like a brief three to five minute condensed thesis of what you're presenting of why the natural state is deflationary or why the natural state is price go down and why that fundamentally conflicts with our current system of a debt-based economy?

Starting point is 00:11:37 Okay. So the free market rewards value, right? Value creation. And you, just Think about the things you purchase. We're using Riverside app right now. We're using Riverside app because it gives you more value to touch more people. And it costs a fraction of what that used to based on those. That path is constantly, you're constantly searching for more value in your life. Whether you know it or not, you're constantly. And you actually don't normally know it.

Starting point is 00:12:08 That's why you get caught. No, the monopoly will always be the monopoly. We can never change this, this scarcity, exactly. in the world because of the belief that something will always look that way. And for all of time, we've always been caught in the same belief, thinking that any human in any epoch, I bet you every human thought, we know 98% of the information to be known. And then what happens? That scarcity and the margin created from that scarcity causes our brains to say, how do we

Starting point is 00:12:43 solve that or an entrepreneur's brain to say, how do we solve that? So there's a whole bunch of people caught in a perceived reality that they know is true. And then an entrepreneur says, I'm going to challenge that perceived reality with something totally different to give more value. So we don't see something coming. We think it's always going to look the same. And then an entrepreneur creates that more value. And we immediately moved because they created more value for us. And the output of what I just described is our action within a system, it has to, the entrepreneur couldn't be successful unless they provided more value. And so, and unless price go down or way more value, then they wouldn't be successful because we wouldn't use it. We would ignore it. It would fail in the free market world.

Starting point is 00:13:30 So their action and our action have to be deflation. And then from that world, there can't be a monopoly, though, because the monopoly creates pricing that goes up. It creates more competition to be able to break the monopoly. So the only reason that way a monopoly could exist is through regulation that stops the free market, which is why you have banking monopolies, which is why you have food monopolies, which is why you have drug monopolies, why every monopoly. favors regulation because they're going at way of political monopolies right when you when they're why you have laws changing to support the monopolies right is it's

Starting point is 00:14:15 it's it's because it's not a free market it never has been right and you're and and so in that model um prices fall to the marginal cost of production and because when there's even a penny of profit entrepreneurs attack to try to remove that profit it because they get paid for, you get paid for providing value to society. It's really simple. So then what stops out, right? So if that's the natural state of us competing, us trading with each other all over the world, why doesn't it look like that?

Starting point is 00:14:50 And now we get into your other part of the question, which is a credit-based system where a credit is, where a bank doesn't have the money, they lend it into existence. So you pay an interest rate forever on money that didn't exist before. It was just made up in a ledger entry. And so somebody's winning by that equation and somebody's losing. And then that system, once you've set up a credit-based system like that where the money is credit that's loaned into existence, that system can't allow deflation.

Starting point is 00:15:29 So it cannot allow the free market to work. And not only it can it not, it's an appearance of the free market when it starts. And that credit base system isn't as big. But as it steals more and more to stop the free market from working, because it can't allow deflation. It can't allow deflation specifically because in deflation, the credit explodes in value. It explodes in price because the amount that you have to pay back for the debt. debt in the system is less and less and less. So it can't allow that. And that whole system

Starting point is 00:16:05 would collapse to the ground if you allow deflation. So when we hear deflation is bad, we hear deflation is bad from a credit-based system that can't allow deflation. And so you have entire journals of economic thought and nonsense, complete nonsense, that won't look at the natural stay to the free market because there's a belief based on credit-based system, and which is true actually from a credit-based system, that deflation is bad. So they don't even start with is the free market, because if depletion is bad, the free market's bad. So all of this belief stems from a credit-pay system that we live in and a part of, and everything we're measuring in that system must steal more of the productivity and must concentrate it up and steal by manipulating money because that credit has

Starting point is 00:17:06 to grow exponentially as the as the pre-market moves exponentially the other way. It has to capture and centralize more. Are you sick at the Fiat-funded fast fashion that falls apart quicker than the dollar? You know, the cheap stuff made to drain your wallet one inferior product at a time. Stop it. There's a better way. Panties for Bitcoin is a family-oriented company built by Bitcoiners for Bitcoiners and health of that unbreakable Bitcoin standard. Certified maiden Italy underwear that lasts as long as

Starting point is 00:17:33 your metal backups. Guys, grab a couple pairs of those lightning boxers for yourself, the softest, most comfortable, durable pair you'll ever own. And surprise your lady with luxurious panties, bras and thawls. No better way to spark those all too important Bitcoin conversations and spread adoption than attractive people in their underwear. Naturally, you can pay with Bitcoin supporting the circular economy and building that parallel system. Simply scan the QR code or click the link in the description down below at hand to pantiesfor Bitcoin.com and use promo code B3.com. TC sessions to save 10%. Snag yours and share your love for Bitcoin in a new peer-to-peer way.

Starting point is 00:18:05 Attention all freedom-loving Alberta Bitcoiners. Tired of the Big Six Bank's freezing funds, blocking transactions, or slamming your account shut without warning or explanation, just for dipping into Bitcoin? Remember the Freedom Convoy debanking nightmare? Federal government has invoked the emergencies act. But don't let them control your money or raise your financial life. Join the Pioneers over at Bow Valley Credit Union,

Starting point is 00:18:25 a place run by Freedom and Sound Money Advocates. I banked there myself. They are the first and only traditional banker credit union in Canada to directly integrate Bitcoin via their Bitcoin gateway. If you have to use dollars, why settle for a Fiat only account when you could seamlessly move in and out of Bitcoin? No hassle, no questions, no re-hypothication, no leverage. This isn't paper Bitcoin, withdraw to self-custody at any time. Insured and auditable, it's perfect for adding Bitcoin to your corporate balance sheet. If you or your business is in Alberta, switch to your Bitcoin refuge at bowvalleyCU.com.

Starting point is 00:18:55 Scan the QR code or click the link below. So to be clear, this is something that, you know, we obviously think about in the Bitcoin space and, you know, the kind of libertarian type space that kind of is kind of a sibling to it, is that politicians are going to just try to spend as much as they can because they don't have foresight. They're thinking in two to four year election cycles and they don't care what the debt looks like long term. But what you're describing, it sounds like, and please tell me if I'm wrong, that the system itself goes beyond that. Like, even if we had the most honorable, thoughtful politicians with the best, foresight who are doing their best not to spend taxpayer money into oblivion and run up high debts, they couldn't do that because this system requires debt. So when Elon and everybody say, I'm going to save $2 trillion in the budget, and remove the spending and the spending went up, I knew for sure the spending would go up, knew for sure that that money can't be saved because of the saves, it causes an inflationary spiral that then starts wiping out every bank and every house

Starting point is 00:19:58 and prices reset to zero. And it keeps on going forever. No politician would allow that. Why wouldn't any politician allow it? Because you wouldn't allow them to allow it. There would be riots every street because every single thing collapse. And you, me, everyone else,

Starting point is 00:20:21 would write and say print as much money as you can to save us, giving away our agency. So that's why I don't get fussed at all about all of the people and doing what they're doing because most are just pawns in a system that can't be resolved from the system. There's no possible way that that system can be resolved from that system. How it gets resolved through history is massive war, bloodshed, a reset the system and then we start again.

Starting point is 00:21:01 And it gets worse and worse and worse. And the fact, the whole fourth turning, the whole fourth turning and the ideas from the fourth turning, which is observationally correct, is actually, I think, correlated to exactly what I talk about, not caused. So what I talk about in natural state of the free market being deflation. is the cause of the fourth turning events because it's always been deflation. And that gives rise to further and further manipulation

Starting point is 00:21:33 that gives rise to society breaking apart, that gives rise to weakly years and centralization of it, that gives rise to war, conflict, reset, start again. Always, because we've never actually lived in a free market. on that same note too i think i don't know if dalio's ever specifically referenced the fourth turning as well too but it's it's no coincidence that ray dalio's credit cycle perfectly matches up with the fourth turning as well the two go do hand in hand so with that jeff i'm curious in your view is it inevitable that the existing system is going to hit a crisis point at some point and then kind of tagging on to that if bitcoin

Starting point is 00:22:13 remains decentralized and secure people will inevitably make their way to the new system if something was to happen. If there was a major sort of event that could actually cause a psychological shift to actually break people's models and get a flood of people coming into the space a lot faster, could we handle that? Is Bitcoin ready for it on board everybody? It is. Now, I don't think there's a, I don't think this is well known even in the Bitcoin community, but part of our investment thesis four years ago was we had to get this ready to, to, to, to, is essentially keep Bitcoin in privacy as well, to protect communications, privacy, to expand it at a level through layers that would allow that transition because this was why the existing

Starting point is 00:23:05 system had to centralize. It had to get worse. And then most people that were measuring Bitcoin at that time and today are playing into the centralization. And you had to provide, you had to drive X exit ramps and those had to be bulletproof before the such time that these things started to get worse. But when you say, but we're well past that time, it's just, it's, it's most people are frogs boiling in a plop pot and they don't know they're boiling, but we're well past that time. It's already, it's, it's already so over from the existing system. So the question is, why do people stay in it when they could just walk over to the new system.

Starting point is 00:23:49 It goes back to that thing I said before is you have to come to the conclusion that you have agency and you're going to build a different world and remove your time from the existing system. If your time is inside that existing system and you get paid, let's say you run a podcast, even like Tucker Carlson, right, you run a podcast that you get, everybody loves you because you're yelling at the system and there's always conspirators, then it would be really hard to move to a different system because then you would be moving from everybody who loves you

Starting point is 00:24:25 and everyone that talks about it. And so it's our own ego keeping us trapped inside a system that we think we're helping from that. Our egos are a hard thing to overcome. Is that why you called it ego death, by the way? It wasn't actually me who created that name. that was my partner's Nico and Andy. But it certainly fits and it certainly in where we're going in this.

Starting point is 00:24:56 And you can either come to Bitcoin from a higher consciousness energy. Or once you're in Bitcoin for a long time, you increase your level of consciousness. Both are the same road to the same place. Right. I see it happening for different people for different reasons, but once you're in a system of honesty and that mirror back at you, what you see, you inevitably change.

Starting point is 00:25:23 So you remove some of the baggage you had from the old system over time. You take agency in the new system. And so I think that's what's going to happen over it, what is going to happen over a long time period. But it's going to shift a level of consciousness in the world too, because it's a completely different system that allows that. It reminds me of almost like a YMAR moment where it's a psychological shift that that's no longer money. That's no longer I want to be that it really is coming from the individual person and the existing model that they're using to frame things up.

Starting point is 00:25:54 For someone that's listening, Jeff, what is sufficient to move to the new system? So for example, I can think of a few things. Like, are Bitcoin derivatives the old system or the new system? Must you self-custody? Must you explore privacy tools? What is sufficiently requirement in your view to get to the new system? These are all just paths to get deeper and deeper. When people say the rabbit holes deep and it keeps on, what ends up happening, I can speak for me.

Starting point is 00:26:26 There's a lot of the things. And I think every single person is the reflection that they're seeing is them in this. And they want to say what everyone else should do. I typically don't. I say, what did I do? Where was I wrong? And where am I now? So as I've gotten deeper and deeper in this, I had a, I'd say, I said this a hypocrisy early on,

Starting point is 00:26:54 even though I knew all of this and I wrote all about this, that all my money came from the existing system. And I told myself that I was so important in this news that I had to teach people this around the world. And I woke up one night going, wow, right, this is crazy that I know this. I wrote a book on art. I studied this deeply. And I'm still stuck.

Starting point is 00:27:20 And it wasn't until I made the decision to get rid of all of the boards that I was on and move. That's where we created the ego death from. I wanted to move my time to the new system, start spending in Bitcoin, start advocating, building on top of it to provide the rails that would be needed. It wasn't until I did that that I could see all of the beauty that was actually happening already in Bitcoin without me. It wasn't the, and so some of those entrepreneurs that then found me, found us, then we accelerated with capital.

Starting point is 00:28:04 We wouldn't have found. Some of these tools wouldn't exist today. if people like and I'm not saying just me, the people like me or Matt O'Dell or other people that didn't move their energy too. Ben, with you guys, you guys, didn't move their energy too into the new system. And so you see a reflection back at you

Starting point is 00:28:28 of a whole bunch of other beautiful people that are doing the same thing and you just want to do more. But for my own personal journey, it would have been easy to stay in that other system and not know what I know today. So I don't judge anyone else for their own energy where they are or whatever they want to do.

Starting point is 00:28:48 I can just tell you from my own path going deeper and deeper. Every time I've gone deeper, the world's healed a little bit for me. Everything is clarified for me, and my life gets easier. No, it's funny. We make the joke that like, It's not about number go up.

Starting point is 00:29:07 It's about the friends you make along the way. And if I'm actually being honest, 100% that has been the greatest thing that I've gotten out of this. My time with Gary, with Ben, with everybody on the team with all the Bitcoiners I've met, I was so unbelievably nihilistic and miserable in the old system that when I started moving to the new one and spending as much of my time there as possible, it has been the most meaningful thing outside of my kids and family that I love very much that I've done. And it's been absolutely incredible. So with that good friend, Gary, any thoughts?

Starting point is 00:29:35 Yeah. You said you felt a hypocrisy early on in what you were doing. I mean, look at me. I got the block clock right behind me talking about how much Bitcoin is worth in dollars, basically in worthless credit promises. Like, oh, hey, look, it's worth another thousand and worthless credit promises. Woohoo. Like, all right, big deal.

Starting point is 00:29:54 Like, what am I? But I'm still thinking in this old world mindset. And as much as I try to step back and think about the things you say, I'm still thinking in this old world mindset, probably not. 98, 99% of the time. And, you know, it sucks. And I try as I might. I try my best to kind of shift over. You said in your book that, and you kind of reiterated it here, that what's going to come? And if I'm misrepresenting this, please tell me what's eventually going to come with when the system kind of blows up. It's going to make the Great Depression look like a minor recession. It's going to be really bad.

Starting point is 00:30:30 So I guess I have so many questions in regards to that. So do you envision anything happening before we get to the point of like 40 years of darkness, rivers boiling, dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria that would push people out of the old system into the new system, one or two or three major events that they might be able to get in the right mindset to escape before reach this point? And second question is, how much pushback do you expect from all of the new system? the people like the state tied to the old system who don't want to give that up because they have so much interest in it. So let's just look at some historical examples, not even historical, like some right now

Starting point is 00:31:14 examples. So Bitcoin's been around for what do we have now, 20, sorry, no, 16 years or something like that, right? Yep, 2009. Yeah. So, so Bitcoin, so look in Venezuela over the last 16 years. So everyone 16 years ago, 15 years ago, 14 years ago, 10 years ago, could have got that coin, moved themselves out of that system, stayed and protected against

Starting point is 00:31:41 massive depreciation of currency and massive centralization of the government and dictatorship. Anyone, there's an open system, anyone could do. How many people did? How many people stayed? How many people got wiped out? And so, and while we're talking about this, and Gary, Even as you said, you measure a block clock and existing system and most of the time you're in the existing system. That's what people are doing in the U.S. right now.

Starting point is 00:32:08 Everyone's Venezuela. And they think they're smarter than those Venezuelans. And I say it in that way because if we've never known this before and we're still and we have we know something is true, the natural state of the free market is deflation, meaning everything else is untrue. It's a relative debasement in every different country. We look at people in other countries with massive debasement, and we know we're on the same path from that system. And we look at us as smarter than those people.

Starting point is 00:32:44 And we're all falling into the same trap, exact same trap. And so why would it look any different? It's going to look exactly the same. And then the next conversation to that, if you are in Venezuela and you just held Bitcoin, or instead you held U.S. dollars because you knew Venezuela was going to fail, you would protect yourself from that depreciating currency because the other currency was depreciating less theft.

Starting point is 00:33:14 And you would think, wow, I'm a winner. But if you took that and built a company cash flowing in U.S. dollars, you would do way better than the person just holding the U.S. dollars. Now do that same calculation on Bitcoin. If you just hold Bitcoin, let's say a treasury company, you just hold it, you just hold it. You're probably escaping the massive depreciation of value, but you're actually also part of the same system because that system has to come in and try to capture that Bitcoin eventually. But let's say instead of just holding it, you're building cash flow companies in Bitcoin. You're building the new system.

Starting point is 00:34:01 You're building more and more value in the thing that's most valuable. So it's just a totally different outcome. So for me, I can't believe more people aren't investing. Like Ego Death is investing inside something that they can build more value in cash flow that's denominated in Bitcoin, a Bitcoin denominated cash flow, that is building balance sheets that are in Bitcoin, and well-providing protections for what's coming.

Starting point is 00:34:31 So what would a market look like? What would the free market look like if most people misunderstood something and you understood it? And then you could help those people. Wouldn't that be a really good source of creating value in the free market that you knew was going? That's what you guys are doing in your podcast. That's what you guys are doing a Bitcoin mentor.

Starting point is 00:34:50 That's what you guys are doing. That's what I see Bitcoiners doing everywhere by solving a project. a massive problem that's out there. But I need to be curious about this. I need to learn more and then use my gifts. Where my gifts are the best to be able to help more people. So that's all the more people you help, the faster you'll accumulate more well. Nate, all of our sponsors are paying us in Bitcoin, right?

Starting point is 00:35:16 Yes. Ben insists on it. Question for you there. Actually, one thing immediately jumped out of me because you said, why aren't more investors in this space? and that just rang so true for people that know something, but don't believe it yet, that I imagine for them,

Starting point is 00:35:30 there's still this almost like emotional response that it's too risky to be that focused in the Bitcoin space. They're hedging their bets a little bit. They can know it's going to fail, but they're not at the point necessarily acting on it where they're going to invest primarily or only in Bitcoin cash flowing companies. One question that I want to tease a part there

Starting point is 00:35:46 that came from a little bit prior as well. I think, I have a suspicion this time in terms of the system resetting or collapsing, will in fact be the worst that we this maybe ever happened. And the reason being is that I, it looks to me like at some point in time it gets so painful that everyone just agrees to rebuild the system that they're like, okay, we got to reset the clock. We're going to rebuild essentially the old credit system again.

Starting point is 00:36:10 We're going to start it over again. But in this particular setup, there is an exit. There's a place where people can move their energy in time too. So the new system won't get in, they won't get reset or rebuilt. It'll just completely crumble to the ground. I'm curious, one, if, you view that, if you share that view, and then additionally, I'm wondering if you have any concerns about what that might actually look like, because for me, I worry that Bitcoiners

Starting point is 00:36:33 during that transition will be blamed or targeted for the complete collapse of the existing system. I don't think it's going to look like that. No, okay, good. I don't think it's going to look like that because the difference would be, well, we wouldn't let that system collapse anyways. We'd just keep printing and it would be, and it would just be, think about how much prices over risen now from that system in the last house is rising, food prices rising, all the and how many people are marching on the streets? It's already happening, right? And when I said frogs boiling in the file, you could see, I'd say this all the time.

Starting point is 00:37:14 My house in the last five years has fallen from 300 Bitcoin to 11 Bitcoin. So that is the objective reality from the energy-based system repricing the system. how many people are pricing in that system? So for their objective reality, if they own Bitcoin, they're converting it to the piece of paper, they still think the price is going up so they'll buy more houses. But I don't care if they buy more houses or anything else,

Starting point is 00:37:39 because it's either one system is true or the other system is true, right? And it could appear for a while that they're both co-heaval can coexist, but they can't. Natural state of the free market is deflation. Anything that stops at has to centralize. So what would I do with that knowledge if Bitcoin, if I tried to kill Bitcoin, it was a, think about the power in that system and the power that you give it, maybe not you guys, but the power that naturally is giving from that system that's extracted from populations,

Starting point is 00:38:15 8 billion people on the planet being extracted from, they give a crazy amount of power to a system that central. more and more. What would the system look like from those people? It would of course look like those people at the top are smarter, better. And they'd be looking through that same thing. Remember in 2008 when the JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs were in two days, they were made banks so they could get bail out money. And otherwise those companies wouldn't exist. All of the same people, still at the top of the economic order telling you how to live your life and money that came from you. Right.

Starting point is 00:39:01 And we listen and people listen to the tune in to what J. Powell is going to say today. And it's just that structure is so embedded in the, we're fish in the water wondering what water is. And so now what would that system look like that you had a new objective? objective reality, an objective reality that wasn't based on a perception, but was based on energy that was decentralized and secure that you couldn't break. You would have your red team are the smartest people trying to break it. And that's what's happened for the last 16 years in Bitcoin. And it's been a front-on war from China, U.S., and everything else, a frontal attack. It's bad for the planet, it's this, we're going to regulate it out of existence, all of these things.

Starting point is 00:39:57 You've had that attack for the last 16 years. And that would be normal, right? And people would be caught into it. You're going to lose your money. You've got to, those people are scammers, it's only drug money. And so you'd get all of those attacks and they would be coordinated attacks. If you still couldn't kill it, what would you do? You'd try to co-opt it.

Starting point is 00:40:20 you would say we're for it. We're going to center it. We're going to make sure that the rails of commerce are to it. You would build stable coins, which is what's the stable coin? It's a guaranteed loss coin. And you get people to use the stable coin instead of Bitcoin to try to centralize it more. And that would allow you to essentially repay your debt in,

Starting point is 00:40:46 because your asset would be going up. and you'd still stay within a credit-based system. And now you'd just move the US dollar from gold-backed to petrol oil backed to Bitcoin-backed, same centralizing system. But when you went Bitcoin backed, you would give most people in the world who measure through your US dollar because it's stronger than their dollar,

Starting point is 00:41:12 all of those people would buy their dollar. You'd add tons more money to, to the centralized system. But that centralized system can't allow Bitcoin to win either. Because I mean Bitcoin, as we're talking about it, because the natural state of free market, if you spent in Bitcoin, instead of in the centralizing currency,

Starting point is 00:41:34 is deflation. And that system is based on inflation. So it would extend the timeline of everything we're talking about. And then that system would have to come, it would have to make self-custody illegal. It would have to make payment, in Bitcoin illegal. So what would you need in Bitcoin to make sure that that couldn't stop it?

Starting point is 00:41:56 You would need privacy and payments. You would need a whole bunch of other stuff. You'd need to be able to protect that. But all of these wars are still on the horizon. They're still coming. And I suspect in time. And then if you control enough of it, what you would do is you'd say, okay, we're not going to, the Bitcoin can only be used for these transatlantic.

Starting point is 00:42:21 They can't be used for these other ones, which would cause at some point a fork, a hard fork. Imagine mining Bitcoin, cheaper than buying on an exchange with direct payouts hitting your wallet like clockwork. Saz mining makes it real. You own the rig. No gimmicks. It's your asset pumping out Bitcoin every single day. No markup on hardware or electricity. They get paid when you get paid. Fully aligning incentives. Mining Bitcoin below exchange cost is a great way to DCA your stack. It's so simple, anyone can do it. No tech skills required. You get white glove support and education, a rig performance guarantee, plus it's powered by 100% carbon-free energy prioritizing renewables. Ready to take control of your Bitcoin future, visit SaaSMining.com by scanning the QR code or clicking the link in the description down

Starting point is 00:43:05 below to book a free consult and start mining today. So it seems like we're kind of in the phase of attempts to co-opt Bitcoin. You often said that as long as Bitcoin remains decentralized and secure. And for me, regards to the co-opting of it, as long as it remains decentralized, it can't be co-opted. Do you see any threats to Bitcoin's decentralization or security? Does anything give you pause or concern? Yeah, the threats are us. When you have agency in this, and so when you have agency in this, you're constantly looking for the threats and you realize that most people in their viewing the world are measuring a short-term action rather than a long-term action. and they misunderstand the real threat.

Starting point is 00:43:52 So if you knew that, what would you do inside the system? And I'm not saying bad people. I'm just saying inside that system, what would you do to take advantage of the social attacks? What would you do to take advantage of? Listen, you look at what happens around the world with CIA, FBI, IMF, everything else to control populations into other countries and to make them think that that's okay, that's the right thing.

Starting point is 00:44:21 So why wouldn't that exist coming to Bitcoin? We know it has to exist coming to Bitcoin, and that means if you had, I don't want to use it in this format, but if there was just one implementation of Bitcoin like Core, then that used to be a real risk, because you just go after five developers and you befriend them and you slip something in that might be a risk later on. So even the knots, I don't really get into this debate right now,

Starting point is 00:45:02 but it provides more strength. There probably should be three to five implementations to avoid a risk like that, being centralized and hurting the overall network. So I think even what we're seeing in the free market today and two different views on what Bitcoin is to different people, I think is healthy for this because it also produces the immune response to something like that hijacking Bitcoin. It's very interesting.

Starting point is 00:45:42 It's funny. I think people just on that, note too, yes, people can be persuaded. I think that's a very good point that we are essentially the risk. Even when I'm talking to people about self-custody, I just have to remind them, they'll look for like, I don't want a single point of failure. And so, well, if you can move the Bitcoin in any way, then you are the single point of failure. It's always going to be there. And even just thinking about influence, I think people always think about it from a violent, coercive standpoint, but don't underestimate the honeypot. The honeypot can be very effective

Starting point is 00:46:05 in terms of moving things the way that you want. Gary, did you have any questions or thoughts at this moment? You're muted. Sorry, I'm a moron. You said the war is coming and I'm not quite clear if you mean a metaphorical war or an actual war. Either way, I'm not pleased with the idea. But what if this is coming and I can easily see the argument that it is because those in the existing system who benefit from it are not going to want to let go of it easily, what can the average Bitcoiner like myself do to protect himself, his family, his stack against getting stolen, cage, shot, bombed, whatever happens. Honeypotted. Honeypotted. So what you guys are doing at Bitcoin Mentor, and I send a whole bunch of people your way because of your, because I think you're really good actors in helping people protect

Starting point is 00:47:03 people protect themselves. What can you do? Go further in understanding that this is, it's repricing the world that you're pricing. from. Keep on saying, say it a hundred times, the natural state of the free market is deflation. And from that point, you realize you have agency in creating it completely. Once you're, once you're there, you'll be, from there, you'll realize how much power and influence the other system had over you your entire life. And you'll be more of aware of what's coming. And that, and it's really that simple. You'll tune out all the nonsense and the rhetoric and you'll get the signal.

Starting point is 00:47:50 You say, okay, and the people that have that signal, they're on the front lines of Bitcoin. They can be protected in privacy. Yes, I'm a public voice, so maybe I can't be. But it doesn't matter if something happens to me. This thing keeps going on. And because of the nodes, because of the way the nodes work, that's the consensus mechanism that you have. You have agency, run a node. Run a node in your voice, that people have to go through you to change this. Then once you run a node, connect that node to your wallet, start spending in Bitcoin. You'll advance the system that you want to advance. Once you're there and starting to see that everywhere else, the thing that you're best at, apply that into a company in Bitcoin or look at

Starting point is 00:48:41 where a problem exists, you can solve and invent a company in Bitcoin to be able to solve that problem for other people. And you'll accelerate. So all of these things, which you guys are already doing at some sort of level, right, can deepen. And every time you deepen them, you take more agency and you create. The world just doesn't happen to us, right? We always construct it.

Starting point is 00:49:10 We can bend a reality into anywhere we want. from our minds. It's where your, it's where your energy is going. So if you find yourself, and again, from that simple, it doesn't, it doesn't sound simple. It really is that simple. But the fear of this other system that keeps you locked into it, what is this system going to do to me? Is the thing that gives it control? And most people, and most people are stuck in this energy.

Starting point is 00:49:40 They're giving that energy and taking that energy. and taking that energy away from the other system. You can't be in two energetic spots at the same time. So if you just realize natural state of the free market is deflation, I'm in the first free market that's ever existed. I'm going to spend my time there. What this other thing does just falls away. Right.

Starting point is 00:50:04 And I'm with all of that. And maybe I'm just not quite grasping it as fully as I need to. And maybe I'm worrying about something that I don't need to be worried about. But I'm just thinking, you know, The state, for instance, is not going to let this go quietly. There's going to be people like Elizabeth Warren types who say, well, we want to tax unrealized capital gains, those being in the old money. And there's going to be people who advocate Bitcoin 6102.

Starting point is 00:50:28 And sure, I could be self-custying. So you can't just take it from me or seize my assets. But you sure can come and cage me if you want. And you could beat it out of me if you want. Like, what do I need to do to protect myself from that? Or do I need to worry about that? I guess when I'd say that, the size of the state today is in direct proportion, and the size of the state's power over you is in direct proportion of removing individual rights and freedoms from the Constitution and breaking money. And that state control is so big today that people are looking through that state control out of fear.

Starting point is 00:51:06 But this individual members of the state, any state, can also be bitcoins. And as they do, as more and more Bitcoiners start to move their energy, every one of us, that thing has to get smaller or get more coercive. I'm not saying from an individual, I'm not saying to not protect yourself or to spend some time. I just moved from Canada with the very same reason to the U.S. And I'm not sure the kind of final place that I'm going to go. But I wanted to essentially, without thinking about this all the time, I know that the exit doors are going to get harder to get out of Canada, right? Because you can see the path.

Starting point is 00:51:52 We just elected a central banker. You can see the path that there's not a lot of talk right now in Canadian political circles around Bitcoin. That might change over time. But right now, it felt like too much of an existential risk. that I wanted to move my time and increase flexibility for what's coming. So I've done that. So in kind of this world, you'd have to retain your ability to move quickly and have flexibility.

Starting point is 00:52:26 I'm still stuck in Canada. I am curious if there's anything in particular. Was it just kind of like the election of the twice central banker and former, I think, candidate for the IMF as well too, Carney getting in? or was there anything else that really contributed to your view that, like, I need to act now. I feel you were, if I'm mistaken, you were in Vancouver, at least we're in BC. And so I know that it's very different culture than out in Western, like in Alberta here, a little more rural Alberta.

Starting point is 00:52:54 So that may have contributed to your decision making. But yeah, I'm curious if anything specific, it's like, now was the time Canada does not look good. Yeah, it wasn't just the election. It was the most people in Canada's. belief about what was right. So the election couldn't have happened like that unless people believed that that was the right course of action. So it tells me how much of the population, how far away we are from the truth. And then what did Carney do shortly thereafter?

Starting point is 00:53:26 He cemented essentially control of media and removal of free media. And so you're and most people don't even realize it because they're looking through the same media. So these things are natural. Again, that system, they're opposed. They cannot coexist. So that system has to use coercion, control, manipulation as it gets further and further away. And so seeing through that, just seeing, okay, if the natural state of free market is deflation, and we've never lived in that.

Starting point is 00:54:06 Where are we? How much further are we in that? And you could kind of say, what happens next? Laws get changed to protect the control. So most people think laws protect them. If laws protect you from the manipulation of money, then you'd think the places with the most manipulated money would have the best laws protecting citizens.

Starting point is 00:54:30 It kind of looks inverse from that. So you can see what's going to happen out of these, out of these. And you can take your own steps to be able to protect yourself, your family. Well, you still, well, so again, in Bitcoin, if I'm talking about Bitcoin all the time, and Canada becomes really wants to go after Bitcoin, then that puts me in a, not just the taxes, and kind of the, because there's already some of these taxes are already in Canada, The healthcare system has completely failed in Canada.

Starting point is 00:55:07 Oh, yeah. And these things are getting worse. And most people are inside the system that they're getting worse, trying to solve the system from that system. So they get worse faster. And so from there, you just know, okay, I'm doing a lot in Bitcoin. So what does that look like for a government that's against Bitcoin? that's for this other thing and a whole bunch of people that believe this government from the same

Starting point is 00:55:41 manipulated media, it looks more dangerous at least than the time for Bitcoin. Now, Pierre will probably use this to be able to advance Bitcoin. Do you think you will? I think you very much will. Now, he should have before. Yeah, he was very quiet about it last election, which felt like bad, Bad pollster suggestions. Yeah, it was bad.

Starting point is 00:56:08 It was a mistake. But I think he realizes that now and he'll address it. Again, more and more people see it, but we're early in Canadians understanding this. I got to say, going back to that, like, you can know something but not necessarily believe it. I've never felt more uncomfortable being in Canada than realizing the Bitcoin monk himself has now left. Seeing you go definitely makes me. feel like, oh, Jeff's skating out now. Things are getting a little bit warm and I might not be paying close enough attention,

Starting point is 00:56:42 which funny enough. Sorry, Gary, I'll let you jump in out to this. Do you think. I did want to ask. So I get the sense for a lot of other Bitcoin as I talk into the space. They very much look to you as kind of a, I hate the phrase as a sage. Like you're very in terms of giving good advice or feedback or having a wonderful perspective to help shape and guide people navigating this transition phase.

Starting point is 00:57:03 I'm curious if there's anybody that's that person, for you or where your sort of influences might be coming from. Yeah, I would say everyone in this space. And I know that sounds like a cop-up, but it's actually, but it, but it, but it isn't. It's actually the way I feel. Like there's people that in this space, this space that act totally unlike me that I learn a lot from. The, um, so and and I, and I, and I don't, I'm not no better, no worse.

Starting point is 00:57:34 I'm just me, right? And I learn a lot from all of the different people in this space. Like, then what he does and what he's doing with the market there and spending in Bitcoin and how many people he's touched, I'm blown away. I was just all through Southeast Asia with a bunch of Bitcoiners. I'm just blown away, what they do, each and every one of them on the grounds. And I take away stuff from all. of them we got a huge debate on I want to say who who specifically got another leader in the

Starting point is 00:58:12 bitcoin community on i'm more on the knot side he's more on the course of course side but an intellectual debate around it and and from the intellectual debate he started to move to start to see wow i get it i get the and so instead of a instead of a you're bad i'm good i'm good and anything else. Let's just get to. So in these conversations and then inside that debate, one of the people that joined us is one of the top security experts in the world about zero-day attacks, right? How these attacks are in all software systems.

Starting point is 00:58:53 And that person brought into view something that I didn't even see on this debate or no, and certainly the other people didn't, that produces more risk for Bitcoin on something increasing blocks or increasing the op return, and potentially a lot more risk. I wouldn't have seen that without that person or being open to that debate. It just seemed to happen naturally from this. So when you ask who do I, I really go back to, I don't think there's anybody I don't learn from. That's beautiful. Gary, anything quick before we're right?

Starting point is 00:59:40 Yeah, real quick. I don't know if it's going to be a quick answer. I thought Nathan described you beautifully as kind of the Bitcoin monk here. I think that's perfect. In your book, The Price of Tomorrow, you talked about holding opinion strongly but loosely. And there is certainly ego tied to people's opinions of things. people feel like, well, if I'm wrong about this, that means I'm somehow less of a person or not as smart or not as good or wherever. So much ego is tied to stuff.

Starting point is 01:00:08 Before we get to the point where the world itself confronts people with, hey, this is the stark choice you have, the old system or the new system. Do you have any advice for people on how they can sort of anything they can do to try to be better about leaving their ego at the door and consider things from a perspective? less tied to that? Yeah, just one, but it's personal to each person. We typically, in not seeing the thing that everyone else can see in us, we take credit for all of the good things in our lives. We're the center of our own story. When you look at a photograph, you look at you first.

Starting point is 01:00:53 It is just how powerful this is. You're in the center of your own story. it and you want to, in anything that isn't matching a perfect picture of you, you want to bury and that has to be someone else's fault. And you say, oh, but I'm good at this other thing. The oh but, the things that keep on repeating in your life are also you. They're always you, right? And so if you're doing this and your view of the world, if you use the things, if you use the things,

Starting point is 01:01:27 that's a negative variable that's not working that keeps on repeating in your life and you say that's me too, you'll find it. That's beautiful. Jeff, where can people find you? I'm on Noster now

Starting point is 01:01:45 and or Jeff at ego death dot capital. Hey you, yes, you watching the Bitcoin price movements and the latest exciting news. It's awesome to stay informed but the real power of Bitcoin

Starting point is 01:01:59 comes from taking control. Don't just watch, take action. Head over to BTCsessions.ca slash learn for free step-by-step tutorials that guide you through every major skill you need to know, plus full video playlist for deeper dives on any topic you like. And if you're ready for the ultimate fast track, scroll to the bottom and check out bitcoinmentor.io

Starting point is 01:02:24 for premium one-on-one experience with my team of BitcoinExpack. to ensure you get it right the first time. Don't wait, secure your Bitcoin future today. Hit the link in the show notes or scan the QR code on the screen. If you enjoyed this episode with Jeff Booth, please do like and subscribe and check out the previous episode with Jason Mera on Progressives in Bitcoin.

BTC Sessions - Why Bitcoin Investor Jeff Booth is Now on the Defensive | AI Deflationary Collapse

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.