Business Innovators Radio - Episode 25: The Undeniable Traits of Leadership with Nicole Sanchez

Episode Date: January 13, 2024

Part of the Construction Executives Live Series Becoming a successful leader in the ever-evolving and always-demanding construction industry can be an extremely challenging journey. But for those who are successful, possess very specific traits and unique qualities that set them apart from all the rest.Sales and leadership veteran Nicole Sanchez will outline what these undeniable traits are, along with provide practical steps for both new and current leaders in the industry that can be easily incorporated to pave the way for their own future success.In The Zonehttps://businessinnovatorsradio.com/in-the-zone/Source: https://businessinnovatorsradio.com/episode-25-the-undeniable-traits-of-leadership-with-nicole-sanchez

Welcome to In the Zone and Construction Executives Live, brought to you by U.S. Construction Zone, bringing you strategies for success with construction innovators and change makers, including In The Zone peer-nominated national award winners. Here's your host, Jeremy Owens. Hey there, welcome back to Construction Executives Live. I am your host, Jeremy Owens, out in sunny and warm, Northern California, and Folsom, where my kids go back to school next week, and I can't be more excited for that. I need my space. I need my time. I'm looking forward to them getting back to school and getting back to the grind of things. So thanks again for being here. I see a lot of familiar names and faces here. Thank you so much for your loyalty to Construction Executives Live. We have another great show for you today. I have a couple of quick thoughts real quick. I did send you a couple of notes regarding my new shop that we opened up. I was soliciting some feedback from a lot of. of you. I appreciate your guys's kind words. I am looking for a couple of things based on your guys's recommendation. If you guys happen to know any safety-related apparel such as hard hats, you know, safety vests, things like that, if you happen to know anybody in that supplier space, please send me an email at jeremy at usconstruction zone.com. And we are sponsored again today by build12.com is a way to automate your construction business into a

revenue generating machine. And you could visit build12.com for more information, and they will set up a free demo for you. Make sure to mention U.S. Construction Zone. The show today is going to be a great one. It's about leadership. It's titled The Undeniable Traits of a Leader. And becoming a successful leader in the ever-evolving and always demanding construction industry can be an extremely challenging journey.

But for those who are successful, possess very specific traits and unique qualities that set them apart from all the rest. Sales and leadership veteran Nicole Sanchez will outline what these undeniable traits are, along with provide practical steps for both new and current leaders in industry that can be easily incorporated to pave the way for their own future success. As I mentioned, our special guest is Nicole Sanchez and a little bit about her. She has over 25 years of cross-industry leadership experience, Nicole believes people are the cornerstone of community-wide progress. She has supported some of Southern California's

most innovative construction projects for nearly a decade. I saw pictures of that Newport Beach project you guys are working on, beautiful stuff. You know, she has played a vital role in developing high-profile and innovative construction projects as her current role as the director of project development at Driver SPG.

And they are California's premier builder for over a century of success. Nicole shares her perspective. alongside fellow industry thought leaders through her podcast, The Construction Influencer. Check it out. And she is also the author of 17 undeniable traits of leaders in construction. Please help me welcome Nicole Sanchez. Nicole, thank you for being here. Thank you, Jeremy. What a privilege. Thank you so much. Hey, I hear you on the back to school. Yeah, yeah, you feel me? Did they go back next week as well?

No, mine doesn't go back until the 24th. So I've got a few weeks, a few weeks to hold out here. but I hear you loud and clear. Yeah, I'm just, I'm one of those proponents for like year-round school where like we have like chunks of two weeks broken up through the year because, you know, my 12-year-old boy is like, he's just bored, you know. And there's, you know, he'll come into my office and be like, hey, let's go out and play. I'm like, I work. I work. I work. I work.

On the board, it's managing the schedule, right? There's not a camp every single day. So it's managing the schedule. whole hectic thing. So yes, back to school. Yeah, I think probably everyone on this call is probably raising their hand on that. I don't think we're alone there. So thanks again for being here. Tell us a little bit about your industry experience. Yeah, thank you. So I joined the industry about 10 years ago. I was in banking prior to that. I was with Wells Fargo for 17 years. So resigned from Wells Fargo, didn't really have a plan in terms of what I was going to do next. I had a girlfriend that was

dating a gentleman that had a testing inspection company and she said, you should go talk to him, see what he has going on. And I said, what do I have to lose? Right. So I drove out to Corey Engineering, which is here in Southern California. Richard Corey was the founder of that. And we interviewed, I said, listen, I know nothing about construction. And he said, it's okay. You know people. And I said, okay, let's give it a shot. So from there, I was in business development for Corey Engineering and then I was promoted to vice president of sales for that organization. And then Michelle Shams was kind enough to promote me to vice president of operations where I was able to shift from a sales, you know, skill set into operations, which I learned so much there.

So the journey has been fantastic. About a year and a half ago, I went to CW driver companies and with driver SPG, as you mentioned. So journey's been fun, fast and furious. I've learned a lot. I still have learned. Yeah. Yeah. So tell me a little bit about that new role at Driver SPG.

What kind of problems are you guys solving in the industry? Wow. Well, if you're in construction, you know that there's work. So first, maybe I could back up a minute and just give a little bit of background about who CW Driver companies is and how Driver SPG plays a role in that. So CW Driver, as you mentioned, has been around for 105 years. They're one of the first most reputable, acknowledged companies, general contractor companies in Southern California. So they're the flagship of

our company. They again have been around forever. They do large projects, new build. 12 years ago, Carl Kreitziger, who's the president of both CW Driver and Driver SPG, identified a need and a demand for special projects, which is basically tenant improvements and renovations. So there we had Driver SPG, the inception of Driver SPG. So that was 12 years ago. So Driver SPG is all about 10 improvement, renovation, smaller bills. So that kind of lays the distinction between the two companies or an affiliate of our flight company.

I mean, if you're in construction, you know the daily problems that are solved on any given project, right? Small, large, they're vast, and there's a lot of them. It could be from scheduling to budget, managing the subs, right? There's just so many things involved with building, renovating any type of structure. So you name it. You name the problem. And that's what our project team solve every day.

Right. Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, you said it. I mean, it's fast and furious. I don't know what it is about our industry, but you feel like you have the schedule in place for your day. And before you know it, you're on a different path. It's just, it's a wild experience, that's for sure.

Yeah. And it's being able to manage. that gracefully, right? Because I think it's easy to kind of blow up and have, you know, blow up with the schedule. But being able to manage that gracefully and to think proactively and have a solution before it even gets to ownership in some cases, right? Right, right, totally. Yeah. And I mean, it appears that leadership has always been a common theme and passion of yours. Where did that come from in your life? Yeah. Yeah, it's a great question. I think early on in my career, I was able to identify that I was an excellent champion of people and I was able to draw the best out of people

and have people acknowledge their magnificence and how phenomenal they are and what they're capable of. We're capable of far more than we give ourselves credit for. So early on, I was able to to identify that I had that gift, really. And from there, I started studying leadership and learning what I could learn about leadership and started to form who I was as a leader, which really is champion people. Yeah, that makes sense. So in that learning process, is there a mentor or a book or a person who inspired you to kind of keep going this journey or was all the kind of self-help books all the long way?

Yeah, I get this question often. And I remember early on reading, you know, Tony had his Unleashed the Power Within book that came out. It's phenomenal. Back in the, I don't know what year that was a long time ago. So that was one of the first books that I read. And of course, that sparked a fire because that's the intention of the book. And I could relate to so much that was in there. And then also John Maxwell, I think the first book that I read from him was The Difference Maker,

which talks about your attitude being the difference maker in any setting that you're in. And that also, you know, that feeling was there when I read that book. I think for me it was more on a personal level. I had some really great role models in my life. I was raised by entrepreneurs who obviously had to, you know, they taught me grit and they taught me what it was to be a leader, not just of a company, but as a family. My mom was a single mom. And I learned a ton from what she went.

through every single day to make sure that we were raised how she wanted to have us be raised. So I learned the grit. I learned the belief in myself from the people that were that were raising me. That's where it came from. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure you've got this question a lot too. Is leadership skills?

Is that a God-given talent or is it something that you can learn? I mean, everyone says this, right? Is it a personality base? Are you like, but like growing up how you grew up, you kind of grew up amongst leaders, so you probably learned a lot that maybe wasn't necessarily in your personality when you were born. But what's your take on that? Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people are raised maybe in a similar environment. And either you have the passion to want to pick up those skills or you don't. To answer your question, I do think skills can be taught.

Yeah. I do believe that we all do have inside of us some kind of gift. that we can deliver to the people around us that would make it some type of leadership. It doesn't have to be the CEO of a company. That's not what leadership is. I do believe that we all have it inside of us. It's the will, right? Leadership isn't for everybody.

Not everybody wants to be a leader. Not everybody wants to empower people and be that person that's really driving the results for a company. Some people aren't made for that, and that's okay. To answer your question, I think that there are skills that can be learned, that can be taught to improve the leadership skills. Right. Yeah.

I mean, that segues into my next question, which is, I mean, our industry, there's no secret. We struggle with leadership. I think, you know, large part of it could be due to, you know, you become a CEO, you become an owner, founder of your remodeling or construction business, sometimes by default, you know, or sometimes by necessity. Like, hey, you know, there's a lot of people in our industry. that started out as a foreman worked their way up and then like said, oh, I can do this when took their license. And then before you know it, you're an owner. It doesn't necessarily mean you've gone to any sort of schooling, not that you need to. But, you know, you're in a leadership role, whether you want it or not, right? So, you know, I guess, is that why our industry maybe

struggles with the leadership component more than others? No, I think this question was, I was asked this question on another podcast as well. And my response was what you're talking about is that somebody is appointing you the position of whatever that leadership title is. You're being appointed by another person. Yeah. And I think in true leadership, there's an anointing that goes along with leadership. It's not just that, you know, Jeremy Owens is the CEO. That's great and that's fantastic.

I love your fancy title. Do you have the anointing to be able to lead your team and your company successfully so that it can thrive? I think that's the distinction. Okay. Right? Is that sense? Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, I think that's not always the case in construction, right?

It's like, you know, sometimes you're just either slammed on the roll or you go out, you know, on the ledge and say, I'm going to go take my contractor's license and you. and you pass and then you make a business card and you know what I mean like and then there you are there you are like low barrier of entry whereas other industries like it's such a high air you know you have to you know go to business school or you have to get three or you have to do that there's all these hurdles you have to go through but for construction you know not as many yeah yeah so I think you asked why was your original question and I don't have the answer for that I think a lot of times People resist change.

I think a lot of times people, you know, we're sometimes in like a turn and burn mentality. Like we're on to the next day so quickly because that's the nature of our business. We're building structures. Right. Right. So pausing for a moment and making sure that we take time out to be able to spend time on developing those skills. I don't know why in the construction industry. I don't know even if that's, of course, you and I can talk about.

about it because we're in construction, but there's other industries as well that I've worked with in the past, that they have the same issue. So it's not just that it's the construction industry. It's oftentimes, maybe they don't know what they don't know. Maybe they don't know what's available in terms of, you know, leadership development.

Maybe they'll start. Maybe, you know, maybe they just, they don't care because the company is running well. They have the profit at the end of the year that they wanna have and, you know, have a nice day. So I think that, you know, it depends on the company and what's really going on inside of the company. Yeah, no, I think you're right. But I think there is a propensity to get busy in our industry where you just get busy and then you have sales, you have contracts, but you don't always

necessarily, you know, know the bottom line. You don't always know your numbers, you know, you're making money, but there's cash flow. Things are good. Yeah, everything is right. I like to do. to the working. Right. But it could be better. Yeah, exactly. This could be better if you took the extra steps.

And I know it's easier said than none because I think part of being busy is you get distracted and you take your eye off the ball and go like, well, crap, there won another year. I meant to do X, Y, and Z. And that year is over. And I'll do it this year. And then, you know, that with that said, Jeremy, I think it's so important for people to have others on their team that can identify those gaps and hold people accountable. So if you're the CEO of a company and your initiative is to focus on leadership development,

then having somebody in your organization that champions that specific task, right? Like this is the gap. This is what I see is the gaps. And you said that we wanted to do this. So here's the solution to do this and then execute, right? So maybe the CEO, because we keep kind of talking about the CEO, maybe they're not the one. They're oftentimes the visionary, and they're the ones that are, you know,

pushing the company forward, but there could be somebody alongside of them that is saying, hey, here's the gap that's in our leadership. Leadership is the foundation of any company. It is either you make it or you don't, and it has to do with your leadership. So having that person internally to be able to identify and execute, that could be helpful. Yeah, yeah, no doubt, no doubt. You know, you wrote an article recently that I wanted to talk about. It was titled, harnessing vulnerability for breakthrough success and empowered teams.

And my listeners know that I talk about vulnerability a lot. And I talk about it a lot because I think it's an area of weakness in our industry, especially for management teams, especially the older school kind of mentality. But I wanted you to talk a little bit about vulnerability, what it means to you in leadership, but also the difference between vulnerability and overexposure. Because I think that term overexposure and that is probably a fear of a leader is I don't want to overexpose myself. I don't want to be up here weak.

Yeah. You can talk a little bit about that. That's exactly it. So I think first it's important to unpack what vulnerability truly means. And vulnerability is simply that you're in a position to be hurt or harmed. That's what vulnerability is. That's the definition of the word. Yeah, no, thank you.

Right, exactly. Nobody wants to sign up for that, right? But there's so much goodness that can come out of having a vulnerability doesn't mean that I'm sitting down, crying my eyes out, you know, telling you everything that's going on in my life. That is not vulnerability. Vulnerability is allowing yourself to be in a position where people can experience you with your guards down.

And when you can allow your team to experience you with your guards down, they will follow suit. And it builds trust. And when you have trust within your team, that's where it all starts to happen. That's where the whole relationship starts to blossom. And that's where you can start to really have your company thrive because they can see you as who you are. Overexposed is simply like they don't need to know everything about you. Right. You don't need to know the personal stuff that you walk away and you're like, oh, gee, you know, maybe I told them too much.

Right. Like maybe now they know too much personal information. That's not what it is. That's over-exposing. That's like telling way too much information that they don't even need to know. Right. Right. So maybe like airing out your dirty laundry a little bit like, oh, I got a fight with my wife.

It was so bad. Let me tell. Like, easy. Right. But listen, I do think that there's some value in being able to communicate to your team in a way of like, hey, I'm going through a tough time personally. If I come off in some weird, janky way, it has nothing to do with you. It's because I've got some stuff going on.

It's out on the table. We don't have to talk about all the details, but now you know. And I set the expectation of like, I'm feeling off. So if you catch me an off moment, give me some grace. Yeah, I think that's all you need to do, right? You don't need to go into the details after that level of, of why and what happened necessarily, but just being vulnerable enough to talk about, you know, what's going on in your life. I think it's so, it's such a problem because I, you know, I've grown up,

I'm third generation in this industry. So what my grandpa described and my, my dad described as, as the way it was is like, you put your head down and you work. You don't talk about, you don't even know if they have families. Yeah. You don't even know if they have kids. You've never asked about the baseball game, you've never asked about anything because it's all about productivity and staying busy and just do your job. So it's like strange because like we spend more time with our coworkers than we do with our families and a lot of times, except for summer. Yeah.

But yeah, I mean, it's just like to omit that part of your life just seems like such an oversight. Yeah, I think people tend to walk around a little bit guarded, but I will tell you, CW driver, so Carl, I mentioned Carl Pritziger as the president of our company, and he is a true, he means he's just like a walking billboard of what exactly what we're talking about. Like he probably knows everything about everybody's family. This is a man that when he walks into the building, he doesn't go straight to his office. He goes and he makes a lap around our building to check in it with everybody and say hi. You know, if it's just on a Monday, he'll, you know, what happened over the weekend,

would you do with your family? So I think there's ways to exercise that. And it doesn't have to look like, you know, some huge intimate conversation. It's just getting to know your people. It's getting to know who they are. And as you get to know who they are, you learn about what they're passionate about. And when you can get to somebody's passion and start to feed that passion, their performance will skyrocket because they feel like you understand who they are as an individual. Yeah.

I've read the five levels of leadership by John Maxwell. Have you read that? Yes. Yes. Great book. Right. It basically talks about the different levels of leadership going from, you're my boss just because on paper it says you're my boss and I have to listen to what you say. Right.

Right. All the way up to, I know who you are, your characteristics are phenomenal, and I would follow you anywhere because you care about me and I respect you. So if you can proceed with your leadership, keeping that in mind, I don't want anybody to follow my lead just because they have to. Right. That's ugly. Like, that's not how it's supposed to go. Right. People are supposed to want to follow you because you're leading by example and they know that you care.

Yeah, totally. And I think there's a loyalty void in construction because of that lack of, you know, getting to know each other. And then it just becomes a monetization thing at that point, right? Like people just go from job to job because that person's offering more money as a project manager. And I don't have any personal loyalty to this place. Yeah. You know, I don't, I don't really know anybody. Like, I'm just doing my job. So, you know, it's key. There is a challenge with construction because oftentimes boots on the ground, project managers too, are out on a job site. And maybe the person they report to is not on the job site. So they don't see not only the person they report to, but they don't even see any of their other team members because they're out building a structure, running a structure, whatever it might be.

So there's a gap there, right? So it's like being able, that is what we're, that's the nature of our business. They're out, they're on site, maybe we aren't. but figure out ways to be able to go on site and, you know, have some fun with people and just make it feel seen and heard and cared for. That's really about. Yeah, totally. And I bet you get a lot of this kind of, you know, discussion topics on your podcast,

The Construction Influencer. How long have you been doing that and kind of what have you learned? And maybe just like me doing this show, is it's inspiring for me. Is it the same for you? Yeah, very much. So, you know, I started it in 2019 orish somewhere in there to answer the first question. And then secondly, yeah, I mean, I am inspired by it all of the time, mostly because after every conversation, not only do I get to sit down with people that have phenomenal achievements, but I learn every single time that we're all human beings, no matter what the position, rank, title, any of that. whatever it is, I learn every single time that we're all human beings. And at the end of the day,

there's this need to, this want to be connected to other people. And so every time I get off of an episode, I just am reminded like, you know, we're all human beings and we all face some of the same challenges. And we're here to overcome it together. Right. Right. Yeah, That's so true. So true. I mean, we all have, we all have lives outside of the industry. We all have struggles. We all have fears. And it's just, you're right. We just got to get to that level with people. And it just creates, it opens up a whole new level of leadership. Because they're just people, right? This industry is very much a people industry. And, you know, the fact that we haven't really recognized that, especially in the older generations or really cared. It's such a, it's an overstep, you know, because we're missing out on not only creating a more productive and loyal workforce, but just a more enjoyable time. I mean, we want to have fun at work. Yeah. Can't just all be putting out fires.

I mean, we're together all of the time. So if we're going to be together, we might as well enjoy the time together. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Now, in addition to your podcast, you wrote a book. It's called 17 Undeniable Traits of Leaders in Construction. When did you write it and what inspired you to do so? So I wrote it in 2020.

It was published in 2021. And really, the podcast was the inspiration behind it. Okay. So I'll share a little bit about the podcast first. So the podcast was, I was at the time, vice president of sales of core engineering. as I mentioned. And I was having daily conversations with my peers in the industry. And I thought to myself, man, these conversations need to be recorded so that we can learn from each other. Totally. Like part of learning as a leader is so that your company cannot just survive but thrive.

Right. Right. Talk about that on my podcast is like, we're here to learn from each other so that we can create cultures and create companies that thrive. So I was like, these. conversations need to be recorded. So there was a podcast. I said, I'm going to do a podcast. I don't have any experience doing podcasts, but I need a camera and I need voice and we'll have that's it. We'll just make a podcast.

So we did. Right. I turned that podcast into the book. So it was another way to, you know, market leadership within construction. I was able to take some of the conversations that I was having in the podcast and turn those into chapters. So if you get the book or if you've gotten the book already, Jeremy, it will hop a quote from somebody that I interviewed on the podcast, and then I will kind of unpack that topic

and talk about that topic from my perspective as a leader in the industry. So that's how it was born. Yeah, I mean, it's a great way of memorializing, you know, what you're learning, but also what these fantastic leaders have done, right? It's, you know, we need to pass the torch on to the next generation, right? What a great way of doing. And we didn't have that before, right? I mean, my grandpa's legacy kind of had to be through his son and through his grandson.

Like, there's no articles. I mean, there was one in the newspaper, I think. But if you weren't in the newspaper, like, what do you got? What are you getting? Yeah. So, yeah. I mean, it's a cool way of like, you know, passing that legacy down and things like that. So that's awesome.

I wanted to talk about your book a little bit. And in the description, you have something that says this. It says, quote, exemplary leadership doesn't come by merely having a title, education, or a fancy corner office, end quote. And this is so true in construction. We kind of talked a little bit about it, but how do you convince the old school, you know, my way or the highway, the gruff owner of construction to learn more about leadership techniques? Or is it kind of too late, I guess? I mean, how have you broached that subject with people? I don't know if it's ever too late.

I don't know that I've ever ran into a founder of a company or, you know, maybe they're not the founder, the CEO or the president or vice president or Hoover. I don't think I've ever ran into somebody that was like, nah, you know, I never want to learn anything. They're always open for some kind of conversation around leadership. And it may just be having a conversation about what they think their leadership is like in their company. And then being able to, you know, poke some holes in that to open the discussion because they might think that they're closed off to the conversation. But you can you can have the conversation in a different way and start to ask questions that maybe will provoke some thought and some change. I don't know, you know, there are some people that are like, no, this is what we've done it. We're not going to do it any other way.

That's how we run. Great. You know, my question to those people would be, how is that working out for you? based on results, right? Companies that don't, you know, have strong leadership, they often have high turnover. They are usually low performing because their team members are not happy

because they don't have a leader that is injecting what needs to be injected into the culture. Sure. So, you know, I don't know if I have an answer, but I think it's like, be open to the conversation. And as somebody that is passionate about leadership, approaching a conversation maybe in a different way, way so that people can understand what their leadership practices are and maybe there's something

better that fits. Just maybe. Right. Yeah. No, you're right. I mean, sometimes it's just broaching the subject, right? It's just getting in the door and being able to talk about some of those performance measures. And I think part of the problem for a lot of these folks is they don't even know they don't

have measurements, right? They don't know if they're productive or not. And they don't know if their people are happy. because they've probably never asked or, you know, so it's difficult. I know everyone's different, but yeah, I mean, just encouraging people to keep learning and it's never too late, you know, is a great strategy. And I wanted to get into a little bit about the 17 traits. And if someone could, I know it's available on Amazon, correct?

Yes, it is. Yeah, someone can throw that in the chat there and I'll do so as well to make sure that you can go ahead and click the link for the book. I wanted to touch on a couple of these things. And the first one that I think that we really struggle with is compassion. So tell me a little bit about that. Yeah. So compassion is interesting. When I wrote the chapter, now that I work for a CW driver, I should have had Carl Kreitziger part of that chapter. He's actually mentioned later. But, you know, compassion is just simply being able to, maybe not always understanding, but identifying that you can have concern for what somebody might be going through.

That's what compassionate. Compassion is for me to be able to be like, I acknowledge what you're going through and I want to help you make it better. That's what compassion is, right? Just being able to feel for that person. maybe not always understanding because if you've never gone through something that somebody else has, you can't really understand. You can't have the empathy, but you can still have the compassion. I'll give you an example of why I came over to CW Driver. And I hope Carl doesn't mind that I share this story. He was on my podcast a year prior to me coming on board with CW Driver. And we were talking about some of the CW Driver does a ton of philanthropy work. So he was sharing a story with me

about how they were building a home for a gentleman that had ALS. And so they were building this home. The team gets involved. Carl's fantastic at getting the team involved to do community work together as a team, which is amazing. So as we're having this conversation, I can tell in his face that he's starting to get emotional because he's having compassion about what he's about to tell me.

What Carl didn't know about the home that CW Driver was building is that it was a home for one of our employees' dad. Yes. Nice. And in that moment, because Carl was able to expose, I'll use, his compassion that he has for people, I knew for a fact that he was either somebody that I wanted to partner with in business or possibly somebody to work with. I didn't know that he was looking, but it was like, this is a man that I definitely want

to be part of his team because he leads with compassion. He's not afraid to show it. He's not afraid. We were sitting in this room. I definitely had tears running down my face because he was just so compassion about telling the story. And I think that is such a great example. And not everybody has to sit down and cry, right? That's not what I'm talking about. But being able to have some understanding and giving some people grace when they may be going through a hard time or whatever it might be. But just leading with that, he is a great example of that. I can't think of a better example than that.

Wow, what a great picture. And it just makes me, you know, like you said, you got this overwhelming feeling of like, I need to be a part of his team or I'm going to at least, you know, learn from him. I want him to be a mentor. Like, that's how it works, right? And like, you describing him, I wrote his name now. Yeah, he is phenomenal. You should definitely chat with him.

He's a fantastic leader. You know, he's very busy, so I don't get to be mentored by him a whole lot. But when I do, I'm all ears, all eyes watching for everything that he does because he's phenomenal. Yeah. That's great, because that's the people we should be rewarding, right? Those are the kind of the businesses and leaders that should be rewarded for that, right? Yeah, I agree. I think when it comes to compassion too, Jeremy,

And not everybody has that, right? Not everybody has that inside of them to be compassionate towards others. I think a really great way to start being that way is to really be present and to listen to what your people are saying so that you can start to have the conversations that maybe you might not feel comfortable having, but maybe the person on the other end is in dire need of having the conversations. They can just have a space to be able to, you know, communicate with you on what's going on. but I think just listening to people being present is a great way to start with compassion.

Yeah, totally, totally. So the next one I want to talk about was upper level mindset. Oh, yeah. Obviously, we all need more of this as leaders. So tell me a little bit more about that. So before I answer, when you read, when you saw that chapter as a headliner, did you make up what it meant or did you have any idea of what I was talking about? Not really.

I mean, I've heard of like, you know, growth mindset or, you know, things like that, but I've never heard the term upper level mindset. So this will be new to me. Yeah, probably because I made it up. Right. Right. Like I don't know anybody that uses. So what I really wanted to call the chapter was rise above. But it just didn't fit in with the other chapter. So I was like, okay, upper level mindset. And the reason that I chose upper level mindset, and if you read the chapter, I compare bald eagles to leadership. Balled Eagles are oftentimes acknowledged for their strength, their perseverance. They rise above. in any storm, right? Unlike any other bird, the bald eagle will rise above the storm and above the

noise and watch everything below where all the other birds are freaking out, right? They're all down there like packing at each other, freaking out, letting the noise influence everything that they're doing. Meanwhile, the bald eagle is just up there, you know, sailing away, looking down at the storm, getting strategic about what's next. The other thing that's interesting about eagles, and you might have heard this before, they're very selective on who they hang out with. They don't hang out with pigeons. They don't hang out with chickens.

And as a matter of fact, so what will happen with the bald eagle is sometimes a crow will launch onto its back, right? Like, imagine a bald eagle. And then a crow is like on top of its back trying to like peck at it, eat its ears, like doing all the things, trying to take this eagle down.

The bald eagle knows that the crow cannot, go to a certain altitude. So the bald eagle will rise far above into the sky so that the crow can no longer breathe. And the crow falls off. Columbus, right, gets down to the ground. So now the bald eagle is in a space where there's no more pecking, no more that negative noise, right? So that was the essence of the upper level mindset, comparing it to the bald eagle and having some of those similar traits, you know, it's a bird and who in the world would compare the bird to, I'm going to charge really quick. Yeah, no problem.

It came unplugged, so bear with me. Sorry about that. It made sense in my head. So that's where upper lover mindset come. I, you know, there's a spiritual meaning behind eagles, and my mom and I had always talked about that. So that's upper level. Rise above.

Rise above the noise. Rise above the negative people, the chaos, move on quickly, be strategic. Yeah. I mean, it makes complete sense. I mean, easier said than done, right? I mean, I mean, we all would love to do that. But I think you're right. I mean, a good leader has to do that. Because if you're not rising above, you're getting into BS at the job site. You're getting into pissing matches with people. I mean, and it's so easy to do. I mean, it's like our society is set up for this crap right now, right? It's like people need a lot. more of rising above and a lot less of what's we don't need to get involved in every single discussion and have an argument about everything I know but it's so easy right it's just so easy to have that one last jab at somebody as they yeah yeah rise above it all yeah no doubt

the next one I'd like to talk about is humility and this is a big one I think this is not always one that you see in a typical CEO, right? Yeah. It's like counter to what a typical CEO would be, right? It's humble. So let's talk about humility. Yeah. So I'm looking around because I wanted to grab my book really quickly.

Yeah, sure. It was actually inspired by Gaff at GaffCon. He is the founder of GaffCon and their company here in Southern California. And when I had my podcast with him, sorry, I have to find what chapter that is. He said something that was very powerful to me, and I want to read it because I don't want to get it wrong, but he said, if you think your way is the only way, you really will not be able to build a team around you, and you will not be successful in making a cohesive delivery in what you're trying to accomplish. And I found that interesting and

worthy of pointing out because oftentimes, and it also goes with vulnerability, but oftentimes people want to pretend like they have all the answers. And people want to pretend like, you know, if I don't know the answer, what are they going to think of me? Right. And I submit that it's okay to not have the answers. And it's even better yet to be able to have a team around you that can plug in the answers when you don't know. That's what the team is for, right? That's what, like, everybody plays a position and not, you know, you don't have to have all of the answers.

So I think being humble, adding some humility into like, yeah, I don't know all the answers and we don't have to do it my way. We definitely talk it. Here's what I think we could do it. What ideas do you have? And then let's come up with the best solution and execute that. Right. Oh, it makes complete sense.

I mean, isn't it a great. great response sometimes. I don't know. Let me think on that. Let me get back to you. And instead of putting your foot in your mouth and saying something stupid that you'll regret, go back and think about it or maybe even advise with your team and then give a proper answer that like the person can actually receive and go, awesome, thank you. As opposed to like, oh, I got a know. I got a know. Quick. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So here's the deal with that. People can smell BS, right? Like people know when you're not telling the truth or if you're just trying to make up an answer, like, people can sense that. And that's the last thing that I want.

I don't want somebody to be like, yeah, she just, you know, she had no clue what she was talking about. I would much rather be like, let me get you the right answer because I do not know. That is not my specialty. It's not what I'm an expert in. Let me get you with somebody that can give you the answer and more, right? Because they'll sense it. They can smell it. Totally, totally.

I mean, a lot of us come in some sort of sales background. Like we've either been through sales training or we've been in sales ourselves. And like, you can tell when someone's not being authentic. You can tell when someone's selling you. It's really obvious. And, you know, I mean, if you don't know, then you're probably not a good salesman. Because, you know, I know it. Like if I say something that comes across salesy, I'll immediately go like, no, I didn't

mean it like that. You know, like, you would say a wrong sentence. Yeah. To me. Yeah. That makes me think of the term of like fake it till you make it. And I always ask myself, do I believe in fake it until you make it? Part of me is like, well, I don't think of we're supposed to like BS with people.

But I do know that from a sales person's, you know, aspect, you do. There is a sense of like, you know, I've got to put the boots on and strap them on really tight so that we can do this. But I don't know. What do you think? I actually, I've used fake it to fake until you make it several times. Even with my kids, I've said it. Like, not in terms of, like, knowing things, but in turn of that your confidence. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You have to fake that you're confident to get through something, right? Like, I'm going to fake that I'm good, and I'm going to rise above and get through it. And if you don't have all the answers, then you feel like you've made it, as opposed to blowing up or, you know, losing your shit with somebody. You'd fake it until you make it, and you will. I agree. I agree. Yeah.

Good. I wouldn't judge you if I didn't agree, so don't worry about it. Well, the other one I wanted to talk about is, you know, it's no secret that any person is successful in business and in successful in life knows how to effectively communicate. So what did that mean to you? How did you write that in the book? And maybe who was the quote that you had in the effective communicate? I didn't have a quote from anybody that was on a podcast. I have learned a ton about communication since I wrote this book.

For me, I think that I know that communication, the skill of communication is one of the most critical and powerful to master. And I say that because it's the foundation of everything that we do. And I mean, think about it, right? Like every person that you meet, there's communication involved. You might be aware of this already, but there's four ways to communicate, nonverbal, verbal, vocal, and imagery, right? So nonverbal is all of my cues, right?

My body language. You know, if I'm sitting back like this, hanging out, like, what, yeah, am I pissed off? You know, like all of the things that as salespeople we should know to look for. So all the nonverbal cues, macro and micro. Micro meaning like, I know if we're in a, if we're in an interview and we deliver a, message. I know within seconds if we lost somebody in that moment. And I know that it's my job to say, I feel like there might be some questions around this. Did you have a question, right? Because you can tell the just little tiny micro movements that people make in their faces. It's fascinating. It's

very fascinating. The second obviously is verbal, what we say, but most importantly, vocal, how we say something. How we say it. It's not what we say. It's how we say it. So we're like, Hey, Nicole, how are you? And I'm like, yeah, I'm great. I'm probably not great. Right. Like the tone of my voice is not telling you that I'm great. The tone of my voice should be telling you that I'm miserable and I need help, right?

Right. And then imagery. So colors that we wear, I've got this little frog behind me. Some people might interpret that as silly, but he's there to remind me to not take myself so seriously. Nice. When I look at your background, I can see. your family. I can see some books. So somebody might interpret that as studious, right? Like you've got some busy work going on back there. So the things that we communicate without opening our mouths.

Right. It's critical. And it's not only critical in sales, but it's also critical from a leadership standpoint. So I don't know what your original question was, but that's what I think of effective leadership. It's critical. I think everybody in sales, in leadership, should be able to figure out how to master that skill. I'm not a master at it, but I know a lot about it. And I do a phenomenal job, a job at reading people. And it helps me every single day with leading work, with leading my family, right? I'm an eight-year-old. So I'm looking at her cues all the time, trying to figure out where she's had. Right. Oh, no, I mean, no doubt. I mean, the, the nonverbal thing, I think part, you know, what I've told my kids is one of the best things I ever did is learn how to be

a salesman at a young age. Because, you learn all those things. You learn how to pick up those cues. And the nonverbal ones are the most obvious to me now. Like you can just read just some, the minor tick on someone's face. I mean, the work one ever in the history of freaking nonverbals is that I roll, right? Well, that's so obvious, right? Like, obvious, like, duh, the person thinks that I'm a complete idiot. I don't want to hate the most. But like, the way people say things and their non-verbals to me are more powerful than what they say. Agreed.

I think really being able to not just be aware of how you are communicating, but the trick is being able to pick up on what people are communicating to you so that you can then do whatever you need to do to either save what you need to save or pivot. But it's not always about what I'm saying. It's about what you are saying without saying anything. And how do I pick up on those cues? And you're being aware of it. being aware of it right yeah no i love it another one that i wanted to talk about you know i'm a

i'm admitted and in recovery control freak okay i'm i'm in recovery okay so you're not recovered yet so you're going to continue to claim it and declare it for yourself yes i'm not sure of this yet but the the empowering chapter for you has got to be one that i probably should i would probably skip to right away because I have a hard time with it, especially, you know, family-owned business. I have a hard time letting go control. And that is my, that's my cross-the-bearer in life, too. Like, I have a hard time letting somebody else take the rain. So how can you help me? Yeah, well, I guess you have to ask yourself, Jeremy, like, what is the worst thing that's going to happen if you delegate something and it doesn't get done the way that you want it to be done? Because, listen,

the message that you're sending to your people, to your team, to your family, your family, okay, is that you trust them. Yeah. That's the message that we as controllers send to the people around us is, I don't trust you. So I'm going to do it myself. And sometimes it might be true. Like sometimes it might not get done. And it might not get done the way that we want to have it be done.

I don't know why that's so hard to get out. But, you know, little baby steps, relinquish control. What's the worst that's going to happen? And think about what the other person is experiencing on the other side. Like, man, you don't trust me enough to be able to accomplish this task. Right. Right. No, it's true.

And I've done a terrible job of, like, quote, replacing myself, right? And that's the problem if you don't start empowering other. people to do things is that you're not creating someone to take over for you and you're not creating someone that can maybe free up more of your time yeah and i just keep piling on task and things that i i really want to do but i haven't like let go that wants to replace it so it's yeah i mean i ask yourself again like i said it previously like how is that working out for you I'm very good. Yeah, exactly.

So, you know, I'll follow up with you because I think you should make a couple of tasks that you can delegate and then we should talk about it. Yeah, no doubt. I need all the help I can get. Trust me. And for somebody else to feel important. Yeah.

Right. Yep. Yep. Yep. All right, the last trade I wanted to talk about was how we can be more self-aware. How can we be more self-aware in our businesses? Well, so self-awareness simply has to do with me understanding what my strengths are, what my weaknesses are, what my triggers are, what my motivators are. That's what self-awareness is.

And I think the important message behind self-awareness is identifying, being able to identify all of those things within yourself, looking at yourself going, yeah, I kind of suck at this. I'm not that great at that. I'm really good at this. And then like we talked about earlier, being able to build a team that can bridge those gaps and close everything up so that you guys can work together in harmony, you might be good at something that I completely suck at, right? But I'm self-aware and I know. And I'm okay with being vulnerable enough to say, like, listen, I don't have the answers to this. I don't know how to do this. I'm awful at it.

Can you please help me? Right. That's being self-aware. Right. Here's what my skill set is. here's what my skill set is not, and then collaborating with the right people to make it whole. Right. And that's how we build teams.

Right. So me admitting that I'm a control freak and I can't. I'm having a hard time empowering people with me being self-aware that I have blinded. Yeah. And then I think the other side of self-aware is really, like, do you really know how you show up in this world? Right. Do you ever see the people that you're like, do you know how you're showing up? Maybe they do and they don't care because there are some people like that, right?

Like there's people that just don't care about how they show up. They don't care about who they offend. They don't care about who they step on. They don't care about any of that stuff. They just show up and they're here and here I am. And then there's other people that go, yeah, when I do that thing, I don't even like myself. So I'm going to change it. Yes, yes.

No, I definitely see that for sure. I wanted to get into this last question before I run out of time, but, you know, obviously you wear a lot of hats in construction, right? I mean, influencer, podcaster, author, leader, you know, it's safe to say that you're striving to leave a lasting legacy behind in this industry. And I feel the same way. But what is driving you to do that? You know, there's got to be something that you're striving or something that you want to leave behind. Yeah. So this question as I get older, it changes for me as I truly understand what life is about.

Sorry. So my dad passed away. Oh, I'm sorry. Okay. It was five years ago, so I'm good. But just talking about it reminds me of what we're supposed to do with life. So in his eulogy that was read at a celebration of life, my stepmom chose a message that was about your dad. right so Nicole Sanchez born 1977 now you know how old I am and whatever year I die let's just call it a hundred years right so the message was about what we do inside of this dash that's our dash right and for me I want to live it to my fullest I don't want to live with any regrets I don't want to leave this place with an idea or a concept or a goal or a dream that I didn't at least.

at least dip my toe in and try it out. I don't want to leave like that. Right. Most importantly is my eight-year-old daughter. She is watching every single move that I make. And she mirrors and will continue to mirror every single move that I make. So I want her to know that she can be brave and courageous and to believe in herself and to leave her own mark in this world just like her mom has.

So that's what keeps me going. That's why. Awesome. I love that response. That's so inspiring. I mean, that dash, what a great analogy, but also it's just a perfect definition of legacy. Like, what do you want to leave behind? Or what is your kid going to be most proud of you for? How would they describe you? What's the sentence they'll say, right? I mean, how powerful that is. And, you know, how long that that sentence will continue on. How many generations will that sentence go? Yeah. You know, will it end with one or two or do you want it to go four or five? You know? It's up to you. Yeah, it's up to each and every one of us. It is. It's like, you know, you've got to, I say this all the

time, but in anything that you have a dream about, something that you've always wanted to do, you have to step out to find out in everything. Like, I didn't know, you know, I'm not, I didn't write a book because I was going to sell eight million copies. Like, That's not why I wrote a book. I wrote a book because I said I want to write a book someday, and I wasn't going to let that die. Awesome. Right? I love that.

I mean, yeah, that's a great reason to do it. It's a great reason to do it. It's something that you can leave behind, and your thoughts and feelings are there on paper for everyone to read. So, yeah, thank you so much, Nicole, for being here. It was a great and inspiring show. How do people get in touch with you? on LinkedIn or what's a good way for people to say hi? Yep, the best way is LinkedIn.

So Nicole Sanchez, you'll see me there. Okay. Click connect with me, shoot me a message, more than happy to chat about anything that we, you know, talked about on this show and then beyond. All right. Well, thank you so much, Nicole. Thank you. Privileged.

Yep. Yep. All right. Thanks again, everybody for watching Construction Executives Live. Another great show. I appreciate you guys all being here. Our next show is next. month on the first Wednesday of every month is what we try to shoot for. And the link is on LinkedIn right now. So go

ahead and click that link and get signed up. I am actually going to be meeting in person for the first time on our live show. I have a friend that's flying out and he is going to do a live show. We're both coaches. So we're going to talk about our coaching experience as it relates to business. And then we're going to go catch a SAC State football game. We're both alumni there. So it should be a fun show. A little bit lighter, looser. So please tune into that and get signed up now. And I want to thank again our team for sponsoring at Build 12. Again, go to build12.com to get a free demo.

And thank you guys all for being here. I can't wait for next month. And I'm just really having a good time, as I said to Nicole today, learning new things about all these important topics in construction, whether it's leadership or time management or whether it's, you know, how to talk to a millennial. There are all these topics that are very near and dear to my heart and also there are things I need to learn myself. So thanks again for tuning in and we will see you guys next month. Bye.

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