Business Innovators Radio - Episode 35: The Power of Impartial Feedback with Greg Cummings

Episode Date: October 7, 2024

Part of The Construction Executives Live ProgramIn today’s information-saturated world, consumer reviews have become a crucial factor in purchasing decisions across industries. But how much can we truly trust these reviews? The power of unbiased, impartial feedback is undeniable – it provides consumers with transparent insights that cut through the noise of biased or incentivized opinions.In this live show, we’ll hear from industry expert Greg Cummings, CEO of Power 100 as we explore the importance of unfiltered, objective reviews and how they can shape success and drive growth in your construction company.Additionally, we’ll take a look at some of the key attributes that contribute to the success of CEOs in the construction industry. If you are an entrepreneur seeking to build a reputable brand, this live show will arm you with the insights needed to navigate the powerful world of unbiased reviews and effective leadership in the construction sector.In The Zonehttps://businessinnovatorsradio.com/in-the-zone/Source: https://businessinnovatorsradio.com/episode-35-the-power-of-impartial-feedback-with-greg-cummings

Welcome to In the Zone and Construction Executives Live, brought to you by U.S. Construction Zone, bringing you strategies for success with construction innovators and change makers, including In The Zone peer-nominated national award winners. Here's your host, Jeremy Owens. Hey there, welcome back to Construction Executives Live. I'm your host, Jeremy Owens, owner and founder of U.S. Construction Zone and three generations improvements. Hey, we got an action-packed show. I hope you guys are buckled in because a lot's changed in our lives the last couple weeks. And for all those affected by Hurricane Helene, this is going to be a topic on this show today. I had no idea that we were going to be talking about a hurricane in today's show, but we have a personal story to tell as well. And so for all of those who are affected, thoughts and prayers go to you.

perspective life-changing moments can happen anytime. And I feel like I could start the show every single time with what's something that's happening in the world. And I don't like to be negative. I don't like to start a show that way, but at the same time, I do like to recognize when things are changing. And a huge hurricane affected the entire East, really, one of the biggest storms in recorded history in the U.S. And so I'd like to really talk about. that a little bit, but we're also going to have a great guest that's going to get into some other content as well. So we're going to jump right in here in a second. We are sponsored by the great team at Build12. Check out Build12.com. There are revenue generating CRM machine. Talk to my friend Less

over there at Build 12. We're going to talk a little bit about everything today, but we are going to talk about the power of impartial feedback. You know, in today's information-saturated world, consumer reviews have become a crucial factor in purchasing decisions across industries. But how much can we truly rely on these reviews? I have personal stories with that as well, having a remodeling business. Man, it's hard to tell when your competitor's got those friends that are posting the reviews or if they're really unbiased reviews or not. It's been kind of a wild ride for our industry. I look at my competitors and I'll be damned. Everyone's got a five score. And I'm like,

hey, wait a minute. Where is the cream riven dries into the crop? So I really, this is a huge, huge topic for me in our business. In this show, we're going to hear from industry expert Gray Cummings. He's a CEO of Power 100 as we explore the importance of unfiltered, objective reviews and how they can shape success and drive growth in the construction industry. He's also going to talk about key attributes that contribute to the success of CEOs as he rebs shoulders with them all year round. So Great Cummings is the CEO of Power 100, a unique third-party platform that serves the construction industry. Our industry is undergoing a significant transformation in Power 100 aims to provide a central

point of reference for industry professionals and customers. With 80% of construction industry professionals identifying unethical business practices as pervasive issue, Power 100 is committed to ensuring that high quality work and customer satisfaction take precedence over profit-driven motives. Please help me welcome. Greg, coming. Greg, thanks for being here. Jeremy, thanks for having me. I appreciate a brother and looking forward to the conversation today. Yeah, let's start with how you almost didn't make it here. I mean, obviously I didn't know that your family was affected by the hurricane, but please tell us what happen? Well, we live in Beller Beach, which is just south of Clearwater Beach. I could make this

a really long story, but we were in Ireland last week, and we came home Saturday night, and there was about four feet, just over four feet of water through our entire house. And we have a one-story house. So my sister asked me, she said, well, after I got done assessing, and she's like, well, how much, you know, how much of your stuff did you lose? And I was like, it took me a minute to think about it. And I'm like, well, my kids had their overnight bags packed for a week at grandmas. And my wife and I had a bag packed. And so we each have a suitcase for a week. So whatever percentage that is, you know, that's, that's what we got today. But now, there's been so many good things that have come out of it. You know, I think,

I think you see stuff like this happen on the news a lot. Yeah. And then in Florida, we kind of get numb to the hurricanes, you know, where there's always something out there brewing. You just kind of overlook it one out of a, you know, what X number actually does damage to your house. And you always prepare for it. But this time we were in Ireland and we couldn't really prepare for it.

So that kind of plays the cards against you. But everything happens for a reason, man. there's a lot of good that's come out of it. Well, I just appreciate that perspective. And, you know, like I said earlier, you know, we all have these moments in life. And if you haven't had a moment in life that's going to slap you in the face, it's going to tell you what life's about. You're about to, right?

So, you know, I appreciate your response to that, trying to find the positive. And I know you will. So, I mean, I really am sorry that this happened to you and your family. I know there's going to be a lot of tough times ahead. So reach out to your industry peers if you need it. You've got a lot of builders and construction professionals ready to swing a hammer. Yeah, we got a big rebuilding process, you know, ahead of us, not just me, you know, our whole community. And I'll say this is it's been so cool.

Our kids go to a school called Indian Rocks Christian. And it's just an amazing group of people. But imagine this. We're standing outside, kind of like assessing the plans. My wife and I get back. We don't even go pick our kids up on Saturday. We go to the house to assess the damages. And it's just, it's a war zone.

It's the only way I can describe it. And all of a sudden, two people walk up. And they're like, hey, Brit sent us. Shout out to Britt and Ty Bloom. They have been incredible with organizing people and moving them around. They've saved so many people's lives, like mentally, just being able to continue going on and giving them energy. But at the end of it, it's like they were able to help us get a lot of the stuff out, okay? That night, mattresses, couches, that would do a lot of damage if they stayed in the house and molded and festered, especially in this.

We still have 100 degree days, right? Then the next day, we're out there. We're working. It's kind of like you hit like a little bit of a point. all of a sudden a bus pulls up throwing, you know, my kids stuff on the curb and there's trash, you know, things piled everywhere. And all of a sudden, this bus rolls up and it's an Indian Rocks Christian bus. And 30 people get out of this bus. I'll have pictures.

I can show you guys of this after. And I'm like, oh, my gosh. And out comes my, you know, my kid's teacher from last year, had her back to back years. and she gives me a big hug. She's my life gives her a big hug. Her husband's there. It's just like, holy cow. Now we have all these hands moving stuff out of our house because there's no time.

You can't even get on the island. And what it just did to the community and how it brought people together and how that law of reciprocity is out there. Now, I'm taking a lot of time on this, Jeremy. No, it's great. I'm doing it for a reason because Power 100, your next question is going to be, you know, what started Power 100 probably, you know, where is it about? something like that. Sure.

What we look at in Power 100 is the core of the leadership with intent because of this industry, $400 million plus exterior modeling industry every single year. Over half of it is rework. So that means that half the people out there are doing things the wrong way, short, cutting things. And then the guys that have to come behind it and not only do it, but refix it, right, taking more of an effort. Right.

So you look at the integrity of a community and integrity of. of companies. And they're really no different, right, as they merge together. And so when you take a look at how our communities come together and everybody's helping everybody any way that they can. Some people can't lift the couch, you know, so they're taking laundry and they're picking laundry up for people, doing laundry, bringing it back. Kids are getting shipped clothes. It has nothing to do with being able to afford the buy clothes or not. Right. You should see the look on my kids' face when somebody from their side of the country sends three outfits for each of them. They're like, this is the best. It's like Christmas all over again. So we're making it really a fun thing. But man, I wouldn't

be able to do that if those two people didn't show up that first day and then the whole crew didn't show up. I think I would have been a little bit mentally worn down. Like, dang, this, this mountain is huge. It's too big to climb. Right. So just so grateful out of everything and it puts everything in the perspective at what's important. And that's what every CEO and every leader in the country needs to do for their team, right? They need to be that community support for their team, their employees and their employees families and then their customers and their customers families. It's an ongoing thing. If everybody just did that right thing showed up the right way with the right attitude, you're going to empower people. And you never know when somebody's,

you know, going through something as well from that side of the coin as well. So there's two things going on. But the message is blend really nicely together. So go ahead. I leave it. to use. So that's, ask me some questions. That's great. I mean, you know what's great? I mean, you're in this industry and you're, you're kind of doing a deep dive on a company. And you can always tell the integrity of a person, a company, a man, a woman, when shit hits the fan, when the chips are down.

You know, when you make that mistake, when you, when you, you know, put a nail through a pipe, right? Like, what's your reaction going to be? What's your integrity? What's your character going to say? And you could just tell from your reaction to this that you're a man of integrity. So that means Power 100 is a company of integrity. And I just good on you for having that response, but also just for sharing that story. That is really, that's really cool and very powerful.

Cool. Yeah. It's ongoing. So the story's not done. We'll keep telling it. We'll keep telling it. Yeah. Now, tell us a little bit, like, so what are your ages of your kids?

Maybe we can rally some more clothes and stuff. No, honestly, my kids, they got, we're, we feel so blessed to have such a big, awesome supporting network around us that love us and care about us. And like I said, it's those intangibles. But if anybody wants to send things, kids of literally all ages, if you all want to send them to our office, we will distribute those to families. that do need them, where we are, we're trying to give back to that community as much as humanly possible right now.

Because we did have, our community saved our house very quickly. Some people didn't get their houses saved. So now they need to, you know, start over or go do whatever they need to do. So we want to rally the troops to give as much as we can back. And that's kind of been our focus here as well as fixing our house. But, you know, the rebuilding process is not as important as the system. standing process of the structure of your home and your family. So, yeah, our office, you can mail whatever you guys want to mail. It will distribute it to kids and families. Let's put the emphasis

on the kids because that's really the hardest part. Right. And like I said, just an outfit, you know, shoes, shirt, you know, pants, whatever. The kids get that. And all of a sudden, and that just gives this rejuvenation of somebody else cares about me. Like whether you can pay for or not, that doesn't matter. It's like somebody else has thought and gone through that effort. And that's a powerful thing. And then that person's going to be better. Like I said, I've mentioned it before, a law of reciprocity. If somebody does something for you, you're more likely to do something back or pass it on. And I'm not talking about buying the person's coffee in front of you. I'm talking about really going out of your way to change, you know, the mindset and the outlook for

these kids. So yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. We would love to be able to disperse. anything that you have, we can be that resource for you. Okay, great. After this show, I'll make sure we hit socials up and we'll figure this out, man. I mean, like you said, one person at a time, you know, who knows, but put a small smile on their face for a moment. Yeah. That's the goal, right? Cool. Well, let's get into a little bit of the content here. I mean, it was a great kind of segue with, you know, why you started the Power 100.

but tell us a little bit about your your kind of career in construction and kind of what brought you to this point now. Started with a kid. I was traveling the world with an audio branding company. We were working with massive companies all the way down to regional strong companies, combining their tone tempos to make sure their brand matches who they are. A lot of brands, regardless of size, are fractals. with their message and their tone and their feel and what they are and how they want to accomplish things. And so we align them that way and then help communicate that message out. The problem was I

traveling quite a bit. And it was a ton of fun, probably the most fun I ever had because I'm just a student, a natural, I'm a constant learner. I love that. And so sitting with a different company, you know, every day and working with them through that and then working with them through the process to see the end result was just incredible. I got a, master's education times of 100 in that role of how business works and what you know what goes into what goes into it but then you know I turned around we had a kid and we were basically saying okay what can I do and a buddy of mine we literally just rented a a little office space in downtown St. Pete and had whiteboards up everywhere and we said what industry do we want to get into what made the

most sense. Then once we narrowed down the industry, we then put out a bunch of companies out there, and he had a young kid at the time as well. Similar mantra. And we landed on a local window and door company. They were doing about 800,000 in revenue. About 100 of it was actual retrofit. And there was zero whole home replacements, maybe a couple, three quarters. But it was a lot of repair work. So we had to rebrand that business. I did everything on the front side of it. And my partner did everything on the backside of it, came on, ran sales, and then ran marketing. And then before I exited that company, well, actually, I still have my shares of it, but I exited the day to day. And what I learned through that whole process was I just wanted to have a unique identifier, right?

And so that's kind of the secondary part of how we got into it. So what we did, how we got here is we created what we wanted at the window business. And then from there, and by the way, we grew the window business from those numbers to over 10 million in three years while maintaining on Q at today's topic, a 4.8 Google review 100% were real. And then from there, just like really those principles that we used were as a third. party social proof, created a version of Power 100 for locally. And I didn't say I was the best company, but I said I was the best person to help that job for you get across the line. Because I know for sure I won't let you down. Right. I know for sure I have the backing into my company not to let you down. Will these other companies on the list? There are seven of them.

Yes, they're going to do the same thing for you that I am. Our products are very similar. And too many times contractors get caught up and thinking they have a better process or their installers are better. Well, they're not. I hate to break the news to you. They're not. The person across the street is good. Now, are you better than some? Are you better than most? Yes. But the companies that you have in front, you can't assume you're competing against garbage. You got to assume you're competing against the best. So how are you going to uniquely identify yourself from the best? Yeah. And so that's what I did. Created this to then say, look, the person in front of me, and that goes down to time, training, and your sales mantra, and then your ability to install. I don't even know the question you asked.

That's the full transparency of how we got here from. from my history to conception of Power 100. And so now we're doing that across the board, essentially, across the country. Okay, so this is nationwide, all industries in construction, or how does that work? Yeah, it's exterior remodeling. So windows doors, we started initially, the first list we did was just window and door companies, but then we realized I'm not just in Florida. In Florida, it's just windows and doors, but the more north you go, they add on all these products.

So we quickly evolved to exterior home remodeling. Okay. Now, some of the companies, they do bath. Everybody's added on bath, it seems like. But most of their business is exterior remodeling. Okay, got it. Great. So how do we get to this point with the online reviews?

I mean, I kind of said it in my opening here that it's kind of out of control. I mean, I'm sure it's the same everywhere where, A, it's super powerful, right? I mean, homeowners have this power to give an online review. but also the unbiasedness, the fake reviews, the, you know, paying, incentivizing. There's a lot going on right now. And everyone knows that the reviews are important. But now I think we're to that point where it's like, crap. Now what do they mean?

You know, what's the value of them now? Because they just don't, they don't appear to be real anymore to me. I just, there's a lot of them that are real. But I just don't think they matter as much. anymore. And what I say, what I mean by that is you need them, okay, because I would say most the customers, most people across America, that's how they're making decisions. They see it, they go, they're just, and they just go with the flow. But that's also why we have over 50% of the industry's rework. Now, I think the better question to say is like, what else can we do to

separate ourselves? So you have to have your reviews, right? You have to push hard for your reviews. It's almost a whole other position we've had to make for the industry. But the reviews no longer get you the job today. And I think that if we had 50 of CEOs on the line today, the reviews are not getting us the jobs like they did in COVID. So the companies that have restructured their business from COVID and turn themselves into a sales program, a sales organization,

those are the ones that are going to win. And by the way, I got to preface this, Jeremy, whenever I talk about sales or whenever I talk about being aggressive, the only people that I deal with are the best of the best. People that are on my list have already passed an integrity check. They already have the right moral compass and aptitude. Now, once you get that and you're in a life-saving mindset, that's what I'm talking about of a sales-minded organization,

where you are out to vigilantly save people from going and choosing the wrong contractor and being a part of the majority of rework. Right. Right. Now, that makes a lot of sense. So, you know, there also, there's a lot about the negative reviews. And, you know, I'm very fortunate and blessed that we have a lot of great, real online reviews about my company. But every once in a while, you know, you're never going to be perfect, right? That negative review comes around. And I used to panic about it, right? It used to be like, oh, my God, what are we going to do? But now it's, I see it as an opportunity because it's real, right? And it shows that we're not perfect. We're not going to have all five-star reviews. It's not possible.

We're human. So to have that come through now, I go like, all right, great. Here's our chance to respond, maybe fix, whatever that looks like, here's your chance to show, your character. And so shouldn't be quite as panicky about a negative view nowadays, right? I think as a company, as a leader, if you have the right mindset,

those are real opportunities. And those are finally people that are speaking up. And those are the ways that you can really improve your business. This way, you'll be around long term. So looking at that as an opportunity is music to my ears. And I love hearing

you say that because is when I was running my company and everywhere I've ever done business, I learned this. I started my career off with Enterprise Rent-A-Car in Boston. And I had a manager say to me, he goes, every time you talk to a customer, every time you're in front of a customer, every single time you should be improving the reputation of our brand.

And that has stuck with me so far. And, you know, I, as I moved up with Enterprise, you can deal with more and more conflict resolutions, right? And so it really prepared, you know, it jump started me in my career with my ability to kind of navigate those conversations with homeowners and those situations. And really what those opportunities are is those people usually have the loudest voice. They're usually the squeaky wheel. They're usually the person that's going to post on the, you know, Facebook neighborhood and all that stuff. They're going to go extra lengths. So if you are good, accept the challenge.

Yeah. Accept the challenge. Go talk to them. You know, take the time out of your day. And I don't care how big. I don't care if you're $200 million company. If somebody is really, if they really have a hair across, like take time to go do it. Don't be too big for that.

Because it's also a way to kind of look at your business from a different perspective, being extra critical. And I know, I know, I know, 100 out of, you know, 150. five CEOs are going to say, Greg, they just want money. And I go, they just want money because you gave them a little, little bit of reason to go get it. True. They also hired you to get the job done. They also got promised a lot of things.

So that person is also set, they set the tone from buying. They quote unquote, now over promise. No, he just didn't communicate. So now we got to go back and train our people. We got to go back and use that time. And training is not a punishment. meant training should be a privilege. Right.

That's a whole other topic. Ask me another question because I'm going to go down. I'll just talk. I'll run through this. I'll have no problem. Take it. No, I agree with all that.

I think sometimes, yes, there's money involved, but, you know, a response that we've had a lot of times is like, oh, okay,

I didn't, we didn't really realize that you didn't like that. How about we just redo that? You know, maybe it's a, maybe it's a particular wall they're not happy with or this, this window transition,

whatever it may be. if you say like how about we redo it you'll be surprised with their responses because most of the time they're like really you do that you know because they're just assuming that we're going to dig our heels in and there's going to be a big battle and there's going to be you know attorneys and all that crap no let's just how about we just redo it yes we're going to we're going to lose our profit on that but but again like you said they hired you did you do a job and they're not happy with it so you got to you got to make them happy. And for us, that's been the easiest one.

It's just like, hey, no question about it. Let's not even look at the price. It's just let's make sure they're happy. That's where we can't. That's where Power 100 originated from. Yeah. We take a look at 7,600 companies on an annual and ongoing basis to make sure that we put the top companies up there that make sure that these companies are constantly doing the right

thing. And that's, that's the. the reason that we're here is to shine the light on the companies that are doing the right thing. So homeowners all across the country and people looking for work can choose the right company to be a part of. And on top of that, the secondary effect is we also have gone a step further to rank the top 15 strategic partners in the industry that serve the CEOs and the companies to help them more efficient because that will then in turn have a ripple effect to help more customers, aka homeowners across the United States.

Right. So it's all, it all ties in together. Right. That makes sense. So from a homeowners perspective, how would you advise them to seek out these companies? Are these third party like Power 100? Is that where you would recommend going instead of, hey, I'm going to go right to Google Review? or, you know, what do you advise for them?

Hey, we use Google Review as a precursor. Sure. You got to use everything. You can't just be focused on one thing or another. And again, the Google reviews, the third party platforms, all that stuff is great, but it only gets you the appointment. It only starts your journey. Now, you know, this is why there is so much opportunity here for companies that maybe

don't know what they're doing. Maybe they don't do the right thing. Because there are zero educated buyers when it comes to windows doors, roofing, siding. Okay, there's like 3%. Somebody that just did it and then they moved six months later because they got relocated or something like that. Right. That's the only person.

Right. Most people, they buy in different lifetimes of product, right? So you buy siding and then you don't buy it for another 20 years. Right. So now you're going back to the table and it's like, yeah, I did a lot of research the first time around, but that doesn't matter anymore. Oh, yeah, new products. So we now have to sell, we have to educate and then close and then sell to an entire country that, well, 97% of the people that we sit with are truly not fully educated customers. However, these reviews and online for 10 minutes makes them think that they are.

So it's all about what questions to ask, how do you create a unique identifier as the contractor when you're in the home to give them that comfort to get them to say, wow, you know what, this is pretty cool. Yeah. This is different. Yeah. So if there was a homeowner that went to Power 100, how would they navigate through that? Would they just be going to their city and then finding those?

those contractors that have that designation? Yeah, I mean, I think that for the most part, they would find their contractor and then they would see the designation or the verified on their website. And then we do have companies that do like contractors that are on our top 100 that want to engage with us. Right. We can go through a further evaluation of their company, which we do, we've done several. And then out of that, they actually can get some additional closing tools that we offer.

Okay. because we're essentially showing our evaluations. We don't necessarily charge for the evaluation, but we go in and we film some content. We interview people. We do any full evaluation on the company. And then we share those results with the homeowners. Or we give them,

I should say, we give them to the contractors to then share with their homeowners. Okay. Great. So what kind of like deep dive do you do for a contractor? Obviously, you have to do your own online research to make sure they are who they say they are. But what kind of process do you guys have to,

vet these companies because as we all know we can't just go with the online reviews right and you know and what what necessarily they tell you it's got to be something more than that at the end of the day nothing's perfect right and that includes our list it's an ever evolving list um we have there are so many contractors out there um some that are falling off our list because of certain things and some that are getting on the list certain things we have companies that that initially we we had a negative keyword search as construction. If you had just the word construction in your title, you didn't get on our list. And that was, and that's just because there were so many.

We had to make sure that we were getting unique companies that were serving these specific products to have the right processes in place. Because if you're just the contractor, you're doing everything, you're doing all this. You don't have the ability to go back and serve like you would if you're a niche business. And that's a whole other call as to why, but the reality is that. So, however, in this industry in the home, in the exterior remodeling, if you have construction, it's still, you're still doing Windows doors, siding, and roofing, but some companies just happen to have the word construction in there.

Yeah. And so now we've gone back and we've updated that and there's different things that we've done. So to my point and to your point, online reviews aren't perfect. And that's everything. So you use it as a starting point. And then the more that you're able to get, the more information that you're able to get, the more warranties, the more guarantees, the more support. This is all that we do.

So, you know, I think from a consumer standpoint, if they're looking to use this, you know, I would go, you know, you can go there and find whoever's in your area, of course. Right. But you're obviously going to be able to get that when you go to the companies as well, should they have engaged with us if they did. Right. And you talked about some of the services. the service partners as well.

Does that include some of the manufacturers, have they come to you, you know, like in Anderson or James Hardy or some of those type of people, have they come to you and said, hey, that would be great for you guys to partner together? Yeah,

we've had a lot of conversations with manufacturers, especially over the last six months. They've gotten closer and closer. We're in our due diligence phase right now of manufacturers, and we do plan to add manufacturers to our, to our rankings, if you will, in 2025. So you can expect anywhere from the top five to maybe the top 10 manufacturers. We're not sure exactly what it is.

But we want to be the number one resource for these CEOs this way, if they need something or a gap on their sales process, on their operations, whatever it is on the partner side, and then be able to say, hey, if you want to switch manufacturers as well, that's a, I mean, to anybody that's switched manufacturers, knows what a gut-wrenching process that is. And we're here to kind of bridge that gap, make it easier by going through the vetting process for you. Yeah, great.

So where else do you see your platform going? I mean, you have anything far out that you're really thinking that you'd like to add? What are you guys thinking there? There's so many ideas, right? I look at it this way. When we were in Ireland, somebody was asking me the same question. And I said, Power 100 is a train. I know exactly where we're going long term.

But every single stop, we get off and we look around and we have conversations. Right. Because we don't want to necessarily pass anything up. We're not in a rush to do any one thing. You know, I think the most exciting thing that's on the horizon for us is going to be our power groups. They're going to continue to kind of evolve where we're going to have dinners and we're going to have different things across the country. we are working on a national television deal right now as well, which should be incredible. Should we put this all together for 2025?

But yeah, no, a lot of fun things. I'll say this for 2025, you can expect 100x what we did this year as far as engagements and content and things like that. So we're very, very excited for 2025. Yeah, awesome, awesome. Well, a little piece too that I'd like to get into before we talk about little CEO stuff is, you know, obviously technology is evolving rapidly. Now we have AI. We have all these things in construction that are really are helping us become more efficient. You know, where do you see this part, the review process and technology?

Where do you see it all headed? Do you have any crystal ball or any thoughts there? As far as the online reviews and things like that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think people are starting to see that it's taking up too much time in their process where they're not getting the squeeze. They've dedicated, you know, full teams to this. They have paid, you know, hundreds of thousands, if not millions, for online reputation management.

And I don't think the consumer takes it as strong as they did before. I think people are now very, very savvy buyers. It's like we were selling 10 years ago, again, right now. So it all goes back to that sales organization. But I think the online reviews, if I were to have a crystal ball and make a prediction, then we can rewind this in two, three years. I think they're always going to be necessary. You have to protect the house, sort of say there.

And the only way that you can protect the house is by putting on good reviews. And it goes back to a process where when something comes in, when a job comes in, you know, you're talking about that. you're forecasting it, you're pushing them through a funnel. This way, when it comes out, it's a natural segue of, hey, please, this is what you said three, four, five times. You know, now can you put this in writing, put it on Google, put it on whatever platform that you prefer, right?

The problem is there's so many platforms right now. So you can't ask your customer to do one or two. There are some amazing partners out there in the technology space that do help you do this. However, there are a lot of companies out there that say you will, and now you're, that they say they do, but now you're trusting them to your business and talking to all your customers. That's a dangerous, a slippery slip as well. Yeah, tough. Yeah, it's tough. I mean, back when I started, obviously, I'm three generations in the industry.

So, you know, obviously we didn't have the internet when my dad and my grandpa were starting. So, you know, it was all about talking to your neighbors and talking to your family and those referrals. had tons of weight, right? Because it was like, hey, we trust these people. And it was like, a lot of times that was all they needed. Oh, great, perfect. We'll just call them, done. Like, that's how powerful it was.

And are we ever going to get back there or is it the social media and online kind of personas that we all have? Is that just dead forever? Because dang, a personal referral should take way more weight than going to a Google review. I mean, it should. It should. I have an amazing company on our top 100 called GTR or they're called Get the Referral, acronym GTR. Their platform is just awesome. And they're also developing a 2.0 version right now

that I think is going to take over the market, especially in small business. So if you guys want more information on that, I'm happy to share that with you all as well. You can reach out to me directly. And I'm happy to hook you up with Jamie because I really believe what they're doing over there. We've spent a lot of time evaluating their business and what their intent is and how they go about it. And everything from how they develop all the way down to what their customers are saying. So they work with huge companies all the way down to the million dollar guys. But their mantra is, you know, look, is exactly what you said. It's old school.

like let's make it easy to refer. So let's take a little bit of technology and combine it with that old school mindset of, hey, let's talk about it. Here's what it is. And like you said, and everybody knows this. It's a higher closing percentage. It's a higher,

you know, margin. There's more value built in. So you're able to sell it, you know, where you want. Your employees are happier. The ripple effect is literally endless.

Right. Right. So, yeah, I think we will see a swing of that. But I don't think it's any, anytime soon. Yeah. I really don't. I think you do need to be in charge of your own leads if we're talking about leads now. Right. I don't, I think you need to try to diversify from the online stuff and yet face to face with your, with your potential customers.

Yeah. Yeah. No doubt. All right. Well, I mean, we met at the, at a conference, the Pinnacle Pro Remodeler Conference out in Baltimore. And I know that you do a lot of these things. You're, you're kind of moving and shaking all around the U.S. and you get to rub shoulders with the best minds in construction. So tell us a little bit about that experience and, you know, have you been traveling a lot? Is that part of your gig now? Like, you know, going to the conferences, how many do you go to? Like, tell us a little bit about that.

Yeah, we're on the road quite a bit. We try to go for short sprints. I mentioned that I have some kids and, you know, I really want to be there. And the reason I left my other job that I liked is because I don't want to travel as much. And so, you know, I stayed local for five years or whatever it is. And now we're kind of back traveling. It's funny how life takes us. But no, we're on the road quite a bit.

And we are everywhere. I mean, all over the country. We're talking to as many people as we can, evaluating as many businesses as we can, with the old school mindset of in person or face-to-face, right? We have assumptions of companies. and then we go in and we validate or prove them right or wrong. And then we're able to go from there. So, yeah, we are everywhere.

Events are very important. If you're not getting to them, get to them. I could talk on a whole show on why that's important. Right. And only 5% of it is actually at the show. The other 95 is reasons why you're going to the show. It's a chance for you to look at your business and evaluate and then work on it instead of in it every day. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no doubt.

So what are some key attributes that, you know, talking with all these CEOs and great minds, what are some key attributes that you're seeing that really make a successful CEO? And when I say successful, I'm not always talking about, you know, a revenue. I'm not always talking about that. I'm talking about what makes a good company. That's a great question.

The first thing is always culture, but how do you get a culture? That's the better question. You know, most people will say, get a good culture, you know, and you'll go far. It's like, okay, well, let's give you some real tangibles on what a good culture is for your audience and how you actually can achieve that. And the short answer is I'm not going to be able to tell you today because it's on a case-by-case basis. Anybody that can blanket culture or blanket that process is lying to you because each stage of the process has different requirements in order to achieve this great culture. It's a moving, living, breathing, organ. this home. Right. But the one commonality in order to be successful is you have to dedicate time

to future development of yourself and your business. What do I mean by that? Okay. If you can't, I don't care if you're a $1 million company or a $100 million company, if you can't take a three-day weekend every single month, then you're not, you're not, you're not where you need to be. You need to get back to work. And that's at a minimum, by the way. There's some guys that can take a three-day weekend every single weekend and still continue to grow. Now, the reason, I'm not saying you need to do that, but you have to be able to separate yourself and say, my business will be continue the progression of positive growth, even when I'm not there because of the systems I put in, because of the people I hire, because of my constant training process. Training is a privilege. It's not a consequence.

Right, right. The culture of your business continues to go without you. That's called true culture. Right. If you're just there going, that's a dictatorship. People are doing things because you're there. That's not a culture. Right.

And it's very easy to fake that or maybe have a mirage of it. Maybe it's a better word because I don't think people are trying to necessarily fake culture. Sure. You have a mirage of culture up until about $6 million. Right. chips you know the chips really get down on the table at six six to seven seven to eight which depending on where you are what your average ticket is what you're selling that jump is incredibly hard because you have to release power there's balloons whatever there you go good timing um so you know

those types of jumps um start deleting the training and then you start to have to delegate and as we move up you can go go up and up and up so what question do you where do you want me to go from there because I could take this 50 different angles. Yeah, yeah. No, you're right. I mean, I guess the other part of that key attribute of CEOs and kind of where I was leading to is, you know, what are they preparing for now? Because, you know, we have some difficult times.

I mean, it's not, it's not COVID times. I know we talked about that. Like, we still have to talk about COVID because that was an anomaly. That was like drinking water of a fire hose. That's what that was. That was freaking crazy. and like you didn't need marketing, you didn't need us processed. You needed to have a body and a live phone and that's it.

It was like it was too easy at times. Still frustrating supply stuff and it wasn't all roses. So what are they, what are the preparing for now? We're heading into election season. It's going to start to get crazy here. It's not going to be a lot of fun. There's going to be division. You know, and then maybe the economy takes a little bump too.

So what are they preparing for? four feet in your house, right? Four feet of water in your house. How are you going to handle it? There's four feet of water in every single construction contractor's business right now. Totally. Straight up. Everyone's got, everyone is flooded.

I don't care what you think. You got too many unknowns ahead of you to puck. You can't possibly think that you are sitting pretty high and dry. And if you are, I hope to God that you actually are for all the people depending on you. Right. But if you're not, you could get blindsided. Right. And I'll hit you, I'll hit you right between the eyes on this.

This is a simple question that I posed on a couple of, I've posed this question a couple of times. So I apologize if somebody's heard me say it. Would you, pound for pound, like a wrestling match or a tennis match, put every single one of your salespeople, every single one of your install crews, in a death, like literally a do or die competition with your competitor. Winner take all. You bet your whole company that my team is better than your team. Yep. Period.

Winner take all. Yeah. Would you jump at that opportunity to gain market share? Or would you go, you know, that's silly, guys. Why would we do that? There's plenty to go around. Yeah. I can tell you right now that that question,

right there and I don't know where I came up with it, but that question right there is going to tell you everything that you need to know. Every single thing. And so one crew might be better than the next crew, but guess what? It's a numbers game. It adds up just because it's not your best versus their best. It's your whole team. And each individual round or each individual match or whatever it is counts equally. Okay. Winner take all. You lose your whole company. Now, I'll tell you what I've seen. I know a couple of $150 million companies that they would be like, let's go. Yeah. Not even hesitating. Put it down. Let's go. Right. Because I have a sales team that has a mantra of a war cry. Not of, and by the way, again, going back, integrity is assumed here,

guys. Sure. Sure. Intent is assumed because that's the only, those are the only companies that we entertain doing business with or talking to. I wouldn't be on this. with you if I didn't think the world of you and your organization, everything that you're doing as well. Thank you. So it's like, that's the question that you have to ask yourself. And that's the question that that's what these guys and gals that are growing double digits right now, that's the only difference that I see from them and the person that's flat or behind 20% right now. Right. I apologize for all the emojis, but I guess my thumbs go up and balloons happen. No, you got some people that are fans.

You're good. So, you know, at the end of the day, that's really what sets yourselves, you know, different. What do you tolerate? I love that match. Yeah, if you had that match next week, who would you fire? Who would you train? Who would you lean on? What would you do?

Go do all that stuff right now. Yeah. Because the war is coming. Yeah. It really is coming. It's just, it's not going to be in this well-organized fashion. Right. Then you're getting me fired up, man.

Wow. Yeah, I mean, the other thing, like, so as you're talking to all these folks, the age is starting to change, right? I mean, we have all these baby boomers that are starting to retire or want to sell. And now we have some younger generation stepping up into managerial or maybe even ownership position. So what are you seeing there? What do you think will change out of that?

Because it's going to change because the baby boomers are. They were a different breed. They were their own for their own right. They lived the life that they lived and brought them to that spot. We needed them. But now as they age out, we got to take the torch and it's going to look different. Yeah, I don't think that that's the real. I don't think that that is that big a deal.

What I do think is a big deal, which is the same thing you're talking about, but just different way I say it, is private equity. I think private equity is looking at those boomers and saying, hey, they're dooming and glooming them. And they're saying, the mountain's really big right now. Do you want to adapt to technology? Do you want to learn how to do this? Do you want to sell in this new world? Guys, it's not a new world. There's zero new world.

We are sitting face to face with people. I would say this. To the people that are sitting there, those boomers, you're okay. Do your thing. but if you're not growing and challenging yourself the way you have for 30 to 40 years, then you need to think about the lives of your employees and everyone that depends on them. Because then you need to really figure out what to do with your business. And then selling the private equity, I don't know if that's a good thing or not.

I particularly don't see private equity as the strongest fit in this industry. They haven't figured it out right now as good as, you know, other places because we have tails in it, right? There's trails. We offer lifetime, double lifetime warranties. There's liabilities with it. So private equity by definition comes in and they want to get the most money out of something. Now, are there benefits, some benefits? Of course, there's benefits to everything. I'm not downplaying one or the other, but just for the majority, it's not a, it's not a clean fit. It's not figured out across the board quite yet. There are some folks that are doing it right though.

The, what was I saying after that? Help me out, Jeremy. Oh, boy. I don't know, man. You were saying, crap, I don't know. I lost it too. We both lost it at the same time. We both lost it.

I was talking about the baby boomers and we were talking about how there is. We got it, man. We got it. This is no big deal. So the baby boomers coming out of the business one way or another. eventually. And what's happening behind it is we have a movement of very, very motivated, you know, guys and gals that have aspirations of really taken over the world. Right. And so this is another thing that's a sneak peek under the hood. I'm calling it the billionaire mindset where they,

I ask them like, are they, are you planning on selling the private equity? What's your plan? They look at me like, I am totally insane. Right. And they're like, I am not. not selling to them. Like it is we are we are going to take over and we're going to be the biggest company in the country, right? We're going to be the next billion dollar company. And there are plenty of private private companies right now that are on track for that. And there's several that are there's a you know, not several, but there's a there's a lot of companies out there that have that mindset. And some of them are five million dollar company right now and some of them are 200 million dollar company right now. Right. But it's all about that mind. And

instead of growth of no, we're not doing this. We burn the ships. We are going long and we're not, we're not stopping. Right. What would you say to, because I'm talking to a lot of folks coming out of COVID and, you know, like I said before, we got a lot of bad habits. Honestly, I think we probably had certain assumptions about how great our leads were going to be and how easy things were going to be from a sales standpoint. And, you know, there, there were a lot about habits that were created and I think a lot of companies are in that stuck position, right? They're going like, where do I even start looking at everything going like everything kind of

went to shit? Which one do I start with? How do I get going? What would you recommend for people who are in that boat right now? So you mean that they're not, their sales are down? Yeah, I would say not only sales, but I mean, obviously I think all of our leads are down. I mean, that that's probably pretty natural. But I'm just saying that I just think in.

general, they're looking at all of their processes, whether that's their sales process that they probably weren't having to use as much. You know, the leads have dried up a little bit. You know, just in general, they're looking at their whole business going like, crap, where do we start? We've got to almost start over or create systems or what do we need to do to get back in the right track? So I called it the great or the great reorganization. We've had the great recession, the great depression, all that stuff. Well, coming out of COVID, the great reorganization, If you didn't do that, you're feeling pretty bad right now. Because the people that carried you through COVID,

if you have this intent to grow, right, and to continue to progress, they're not going to, potentially they're not the right people. And a lot of times people work with folks that are very close to them, become very good friends and things like that. And you make sure they all have the seat in the right, their seat is in the right place and make sure that they're happy,

make sure you're challenging them. But I think what, I think the worst thing that COVID did to us, is it made training consequence versus a privilege. And there's, you'll hear all these funny things out there, these, you know, cute slogans where we need to be a training, we need to be a marketing organization. We're really this, we're really that. Well, if you're not truly a training organization first and foremost, you don't control

your own fate. That's the reality. So you need great people, but you need to. constantly train them and give them the tools and the confidence to really scale. If you really want to grow, there's not enough A players out there that you can depend on. You can only go so far with 10 great A player salespeople. You need to have 50, 20, 30, whatever your number is to where you want to be. And you need to have a process in place where you can get A type numbers out of B type players

because your brand is so invalibly strong. Right. Brings this full circle back to their online reviews. How do you attract and retain your clients, right? How do you go back and get them to give you referrals? How it's not lip service, it's real. Right. And that goes, that has to do with what your process is and how your people believe that they work for the greatest company in the world.

Right. The second question I would have every single company, every single CEO or, owner or leader, ask themselves. If I were to send out a survey to everyone in my company, it's one question, two possible answers. Do you work for the greatest company in the world? This seems like a silly, funny question, but it's a yes or it's a no response. There's plenty of variances on either side. But if your people don't believe that they're in the best possible place, then you got to reevaluate what you do. Why is that?

Is it because they get constant complaints because the install crews aren't there or because your sales people show up late or because one guy shows up, smell like smoke, sits on the couch, and now their couch smells. Like what's going on, right? Right.

The attention to detail, where is it? Right. Now, I'll tell you, COVID, like you said, it lost it. One, we never had to get close enough for anybody to smell us because we were six feet away, okay? And two, we weren't even in the dang house half the time. Right, right, right. All you had to do is say, oh, they said they can get it in six months.

I can do it in five. I guarantee it or we'll give you a 10% discount. Deal, done. Like, what are we doing? So the history is repeated itself. Going back to what you said, Jeremy, I do believe that that one-to-one referral element is very, very important. I do believe that there is a lot of technology out there that can make your business very,

very efficient. As you grow in scale, companies like RILA, if you don't know what RILA is, they're outstanding, allows you to record it. every single meeting. You can put parameters on it. You can put checkpoints on it. It just really helps you understand the business. But even with that tool, it's nothing without the training and the follow-up to it. It's just something else that your people have to do. So I've said training too many times for people not to understand that it's important and pose yourself those two questions. Would you bet your whole entire life that you built your company against the competitor,

if not go make those adjustments so you would. And then two, do your people work for the greatest company in the world? Check yes or no. There's no maybe there's no asterisk. Yeah. Yeah, no, I love that. And we started the show with, you know, perspective and life changes. And let's end it there.

What, you know, we're all going to have something that happens to us, whether that's a death in the family or a loved one or, you know, a natural disaster. or whatever it may be. Divorce. There's things that happen in our lives. Mental health. Our industry is full of them and every industry is full of them. Every human's full of them.

So what would be your imparting wisdom? As you go through something right now, you know, yes, we have businesses that we all love. Yes, we're in an industry that we love, but we are people. How can we end this and make sure that we're in a good place as people first? Yeah. I would say this.

Above anything, never judge, never, never judge a path by the first couple of steps. And that's both ways. All right, guys, just because you go down this road and it's all beautiful and sunshiney, well, that could be a distraction to go somewhere bad where you can't come back from. I've never, in my life, I went to West Point prep school, went through full boot camp, you know, And this is kind of where I go back to this is that was crazy. Okay. We're in the woods for however long we were, I don't even remember, you know, with baby wipes as your shower.

Right. You go through that with people and that you come out as brothers. So when there's controversy, when there's when there's a huge, huge challenge in front of you that seems impossible. Just know that you're going to come out of that better if you have the right mindset and you keep moving. You keep going step by step. Don't sit down and cry in the corner, you know, get up off your ass and go. Yeah. Because the world doesn't stop spinning for anybody.

And frankly, there's probably not anything that's wrong that's happening to you, no matter how bad it seems. Right. It's you have to keep pushing through and look for the good in things. And don't be afraid to talk to people and reach out. And I don't necessarily meet it from. of mental health and go to counseling. I mean it from your neighbor. Like, you know, if they want to go help and bring, you know, full circle, donate an outfit for a girl, you know, or a boy, like, it's not the outfit. It's not the monetary cost. It's just that somebody cares about it.

Right. About them and they had enough to go through that to put it in the mail and it showed up. And that's just cool. So I would say keep going. And just because your path seems like it's thorn bushes and, you know, treacherous terrain. That probably means the reward is much better at the end. And I can actually guarantee that the reward is better because tomorrow is always the best day. I should say, today is always the best day and tomorrow there's going to be another one. Yeah. Awesome.

Well, Gary, I appreciate you being here, man. All the challenges that you had just to get here, I can't say enough about that. And, you know, full transparency during that whole show, I was had all these ideas are coming in in my head about how we can support your community. So expect more from me. You're going to see some boxes show up, and you might want to get some tables ready because I'm going to hit up my contacts and make sure that your community has a reason to smile. So it's coming at you. Cool, man.

I've enjoyed the show, Jeremy. I can't wait to catch back up with you again, brother. And anything that comes of it, we'll make sure it all gets into some awesome hands that will be very, very appreciative. All right. Thank you so much. All right. Thanks again, guys, for being here another episode, Construction Executives Live. That was a big one.

And I can't wait to show Greg and his community the power of the construction industry and how we come together and rally behind each other. So if you have any questions about what I'm going to do, make sure to reach out, Jeremy at US ConstructionZone.com. And I will be in touch with you all on the next show. Thank you so much. Bye. You've been listening to In The Zone and Construction Executives Live with Jeremy Owens.

Be sure to subscribe to In The Zone and stay in the know with the best minds in the construction industry. To nominate an innovator or change maker in the construction industry, connect with your management peers and stay up to date with construction industry news. Be sure to visit usconstructionzone.com.