Business Innovators Radio - Episode 39: Don’t Hire Losers: Building A Winning Team in Remodeling with Dylan Milroy

Episode Date: January 28, 2025

Part of the Construction Executives Live SeriesDon’t Hire Losers: Building a Winning Team in RemodelingDiscover the secrets to creating a high-performing remodeling company by focusing on strategic hiring and employee development. Learn how prioritizing your team’s success leads to exceptional customer experiences, reduced turnover, and a thriving business culture. Transform your approach from simply filling positions to cultivating a powerful, motivated workforce that drives your company’s growth and reputation.In The Zonehttps://businessinnovatorsradio.com/in-the-zone/Source: https://businessinnovatorsradio.com/episode-39-dont-hire-losers-building-a-winning-team-in-remodeling-with-dylan-milroy

Welcome to In the Zone and Construction Executives Live, brought to you by U.S. Construction Zone, bringing you strategies for success with construction innovators and change makers, including In The Zone peer-nominated national award winners. Here's your host, Jeremy Owens. Welcome back to Construction Executives Live. I'm your host, Jeremy Owens, owner and founder of U.S. Construction Zone and three generations improvements in Northern California. Hey, for those who are affected by the fire down in Southern California, our thoughts and prayers are with you right now. It feels like every month we do this show, there's some sort of tragedy going on if it's not a hurricane or a tornado or fires. So I guess this is our life, but I just wanted to let everyone know that thoughts and prayers with them. I have some family that have been evacuated down there. So it's just a wild time to be in California right now, to say that. So with that being said, I guess we all got to get back to work to, you know, happy new year to you.

This is a new year, new goals, new insights. And I'm happy to have Dylan on the show today to talk a little about something new. And employees, we always struggle with employees and retention and hiring and firing and finding the right people for our team. And maybe this is the year that you want to expand, you want to get different, you want to, you have lofty goals. you're going to need some good people to do that. So this is a good show for you. Also looking for some new speakers this year. I haven't filled out my calendar completely yet.

If you are a speaker or a podcaster and you have something to say, please feel free to reach out to me, Jeremy, at us construction zone.com. I also put a link to the podcast form on the LinkedIn comments. Feel free to fill out that application and that comes to me as well. We can set up a time to meet and just chat about what you're interested in. I'm looking for people who have something to say, passionate about something, fix something in their business, in their industry. I'm not really looking for, you know, sales tips and tricks or your product or service.

There's already podcasts that do a great at that. I'm looking at a little bit peeking behind the curtain of a person, individual, or process. So if that's you, please reach out. We are sponsored by the great team at build12.com. Check out what they got going on there. I believe Dylan knows less over there at Bill 12 and the contractor huddle brands. He's a coach. He's got lots of tools surrounding his business to help him succeed in his contracting business.

And he's willing to share that with you. So please reach out to him and find out how to create that win-win with your business. Today's show, don't hire losers building a winning team in remodeling. We're going to discover the secrets to creating a high-performing remodeling company by focusing on strategic hiring and employee development. Learn how prioritizing your team's success leads to exceptional customer experiences, reduce turnover, and filling positions to cultivating powerful, motivated workforce that drives your company's growth and reputation.

Dylan Milroy is a trusted advisor and leader known for his education-based sales approach and hands-on experience. As the owner-operator of better basements and waterproofing, Dylan has achieved what few in his industry can. He's built not only a thriving business, but a top-notch culture that delights customers and consistently is earning their company five-star reviews. He has mastered the creation of a steady lead engine through digital marketing, fueling the success of his home, services, business please help me welcome dylan milroy dylan thank you for being here thanks man quite the intro yeah yeah i mean i i i tell this to my like family all the time i'm like kids if i just can i can you just pipe in my intro to the family like every couple weeks just so you don't think i'm such a dipshit you know what i mean if all you're all cool enough and entertaining enough to be

like Rogan and just like just just be talking and no intro and yeah yeah that's that's another level isn't it yes it yeah so tell us a little bit about how you got going in construction um you know what my first job's kind of in high school and stuff you know uh my dad uh you grew up on a in a small town in kansas sort of thing so you know we live on the west coast now in portland i just so i'm born and raised Wilsonville, Oregon. You know, just kind of guys who just do always do their own things. I joined the Marines,

and when I was in the Marines, I was working on helicopters, got out and went back into construction. I was working on aircraft for a little bit, but then commercial electrician and then into high-end remodel design, project management, sort of just kind of a carpenter on-hand sort of thing. Yeah.

And then when I moved back up to Portland when we got married, when I got married, got moved back up to the Portland and kind of jump right back into it. And my best friend, who's the co-owner, he's kind of a silent partner, but, you know, he's heavily involved. He's a fuel to a lot of the fire. He called me up one day. He makes his living in real estate, residential real estate. And he kind of explained, went over this bid that he had. had for waterproof a crawl space. And he's like, what do you think about that?

And it was surprised. I was like, yeah, man, sounds like you're getting ripped off. He's like, well, I get like a dozen of these every week. Every house I sell needs this. And if I wanted to book it, it'd be three months out. So you want to start a business doing this? And I was like, I guess, you know, and I thought about it for the weekend. And literally two weeks later, we had kind of started.

Awesome. So, yeah. the rest of its history. I mean, thank you for your service in the Marine. So tell me a little bit about, you know, that experience for you and how are you drawing on that as a business owner now? Yeah, well, you talked about Les and Bill 12 contractor huddle. It's funny. I think it was a couple months ago where he's my business coach, and I do use Build 12 as a CRM.

It's great. And Les is great. Excellent. And he kind of, he kind of bust my balls because he's like, sometimes he's like, how micro do you want to get? It's like, because step by, in the military, you know, you learn everything, everything is step by step. Right. Because half of us are idiots. And you have to let one of us idiots do it, you know?

So that's, so my, my SOPs and stuff probably get a little excessive or a little do this, do that, or, like how to how to move from one point to the other it gets it i i have a tendency to get a little excessive so i draw so i definitely draw on that well i think it's good thing you know for for businesses who want to replace themselves right where you know maybe eventually you you take a role where you're not quite as involved then then you already have those systems in place i mean military or not yeah i mean you might need it man yeah for sure and and being able to hand it off to people to you should be anytime I feel like I'm using instinct I try to I try to write it down I try to figure out what it is the SOP could be because there really isn't much instinct in what I did right right right for

sure I don't care you think well in talking to less than some other people about you you know that they describe you as a motivated professional and you don't do anything half-heartedly so where did you get that drive from is that something you think you were born with or did you learn that? Yeah, probably. I mean, just, you know, being poor sucks. And, and I love working. I really like working. I like working a lot, you know, and anyone listening to this likes working. And I like surrounding myself. I really love surrounding myself with people who, you know, I try to be the stupidest person in the room and also like, you know, the poorest person in the room. You know, just try to.

absorb everything at all times. And entrepreneurship and construction in general is great for characters like us because it's like it's just never done. Right. It's never good enough. You never have enough leads, you know. It's just, it's never ending. Yeah.

And once you like embrace it, once you realize that, you're like, this is great. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's something really cool about our industry in that there's no day that's the same. And that's a blessing and a curse, right? The curse part is like you have all these ideas about what you're going to do and how productive you're going to be that day. And then there's this fire and there's this call and there's this. And then before you know it, you're like, I didn't get anything done.

I wanted to get done. But it's kind of fun too because it keeps you on your toes and nothing's the same. Yeah, I never hit the pillow at night going like, that was the same as the day prior. was just always so different. I mean, it also can be challenging that way too because, like you said, you're never, you're never done. My inbox has never gone. It seems like it's the same level, if not bigger, every day.

And I'm like, that's kind of stressful too, because the work is never ending. Well, just like any entrepreneur in their 30s, I really look up to Alex Hermose. And he always says, you know, you cannot lose if you do not quit. and it's like man you anytime you want to I just kind of sit there and I think about it I'm like all right you could throw in the towel

you could do this you do that but you know that's that's losing and dude losing is way worse way worse the feeling is way more horrible than how good winning is yeah yeah yeah all right well I guess I'm just going to suck it up yeah totally yeah we talked a little bit about less I guess you know

him being a mentor to both of us, you know, what, what kind of got you involved with him? How did you kind of reach out to him? Was there a, was there a yearning for needing to get to the next level with your business? And, and also, did you have other mentors in your life that have kind of helped kind of push you along? Yeah, absolutely. I, the, the benefit of better basements was as we started it, and it was our goal was to grow a huge. So we hired an employee, probably like right away. I think we had three employees probably within a couple months

if not a month. And when you're building to grow and you're built and you are focused on strategy, you're just always looking for some sort of cheat, some sort of boosts from the future. And that's kind of where coaching landed.

Les was actually introduced to us, but introduced to me by another coach I had for some like for some real estate stuff and he and it just so happened to be introduced to us while we were looking for a coach and something else it was very important to me that someone had already taken someone to where I want to go and gone there themselves and what she's he's done that I mean look at his LinkedIn the guy's a monster so I don't need to say that but the most important thing was is that you know he's still

married his kids still talk to him and work with him uh so he's He's got that character. He's got that and he's a Christian. So it had to be, I wanted the whole gamut. Yeah. It's like, you know,

it's like once you make it, once you get big, once you get rich, like, okay, then what, you know, so you need to have,

you need to be coached by someone who also has, you know, a lifestyle that you aspire to have. And yeah, absolutely. It's one of our vision of values is, is always seeking. Is it like,

we will always have someone, you know, so most of the guys, in our company go to the same church. My business partner is a member of the same church. So, you know, having pastoral care, having, you know, always surrounded by someone, always looking to refine yourself is part of our values. Yeah.

No, that makes total sense. I mean, so wise to be trying to find the life person too, right? I think we get kind of bogged down with what we want in our businesses. And there's a lot of consultants out there. There's a lot of coaches and things like that. Oh my gosh. There, I made a lot. It never stops.

Dude, it's ridiculous. Yeah. They do, you do need one. Yeah. I've got friends who are way further along to me and it's dumbfounding that they don't coach. And they just refuse.

Oh, it's a, it's a scam. So this is something like, correct. Most of them are. But not all of them are. Right. And the good ones are worth their way and goal. And you get into these coaching groups like the contractor. huddle or slack. I just, I just slack something out today. You have an idea, type it out really

quick questions. Does anyone done this or that? And you get responses. And normally, you might lose six months going down some hairbrain idea. Yeah. It's, it's a cheat code. Yeah. Totally. And I'm, I'm all for networking community. Obviously, this is kind of what I do is for fun. So, you know, I can't say enough about, you know, going to that conference. or rubbing shoulders with people who are in a similar spot. And we're a very open industry. We're willing to share our secrets. Typically, we don't compete with people unless they're in our regional area.

So it makes it a little bit more open than I think a tech industry where it's like everything's kind of a secret. We're very open. So don't hesitate, if you're listening to this, don't hesitate to reach out to people around you. And we can, Dylan and I both can help you find some. Like I said, we were approached all the time. Yes, absolutely. All right. Well, cool.

Well, I mean, we talked a little bit about before we get into some of the employee stuff, we're right back to pre-COVID levels with everything right now. In terms of the economy leads, a lot of times people's sales have kind of maybe taken a dip. Or it's just you have to get more creative to find that lead that used to be like, you know, drinking out of a fire hose. now you're kind of going back to it. All right, so what do we need to do to steady this lead flow again? What have you guys found working for you?

Yeah, so people usually ask, you know, because we have, I would say, especially for how old our businesses, our lead flow is pretty impressive. And people usually ask what we do, and I just say yes. It's like everything. You have to do everything and you have to track everything. You have to, and you have to be really. honest about, you know, your ROIs. So we, just like anyone else who advertises heavily, most of our leads do come from, besides referral sources, most of our leads do come from

Google campaigns. But, you know, we do everything from Bing, Bing, social media marketing, to TV advertising. We've done radio. If there's some outside of a billboard, you know, I've tried it. And I've tracked it. and you have to be willing to, and I think this is stolen from less actually, is that there's only, there's two kinds of advertising, advertising you're doing and advertising that you're pausing.

It's so like right now, we turned off Yelp and Angie, you know, the last three months because I was, I tracked him so closely. You can see ROI and you're just like, well, this is junk right now and you just pop.

Right. But that is probably unique is that, Most contractors, oh, I'm never doing that. I'm never doing this. And yeah, you're right. Those lead flows, guess what? They suck. But they do have an ROI.

I made a lot of money on them before. Right. And probably in a couple of weeks, I'll probably turn them back on and see how it's going. Yeah. Yeah, no, very similar, man. I do the same thing. We track all our leads. We know our cost per lead, cost per sale.

And I do the same toggling with Yelp and Angie both. Those two tend to be a lot more tire kickers. Yep. You know, there's a lot of eyeballs on those apps. So, you know, so it's hard to ignore the volume, but it's just the return, like you said, the amount of wasted time there can be a lot. So I'm totally with you there. Yeah, and you have to.

If you're doing, if you're doing, you know, we do cash flow forecasting, 12-month budgeting, you know, the works. And if you have your formulas and you know what your cost per lead needs to be to reach your goals, and all I do is is once it gets over that, Once Angie and Yelp get over that, I just turn them off. You know, it sounds like a lot to track every lead. But once you have the systems in place, it's all pretty, I mean, it's my full-time job for sure. But it's not like I'm up in the middle of the night tracing phone numbers and figuring out where they came from.

Yeah, yeah. You know, we have, we bought a couple dozen phone numbers and they're all attached to certain things. They call through the CRM and then they get values. The customers get values attached to them based on the bids, the salesmen attach. So it's like it's, it's pretty good. And you get, and there's a certain point. I would say like, I don't know, I don't want to attach a number to it, but, you know, probably less than $100,000 ad spend.

It might not be worth it. But at some point, you start realizing that you're just burning cash. And not only are you burning cash, you're leaving money on the table, which is even worse. Yeah, yeah. Big time. I think that's the number one issue I see. especially with the remodeling sector is, is burning leads. Like you'll get a lead, call it once, whatever, put it away.

And it's like, that's gold, man. That's straight $500 floating around your desk. You got to value that thing. And that's really what Build 12 has helped me with is like created those automations, create things that, you know, have it be working for you as opposed to you putting in all the effort. I think we're in a similar spot where we both run marketing for our team. so it can be a lot. And if you don't have automations to help you out, yeah, it's a difficult task.

Yeah, and someone has to, you know, it was probably six weeks or a couple months ago with last. So I said, hey, this advertising budget next year is big. It's really big. Someone needs to manage it. I think I need a, I think I need a CMO. And he's like, absolutely. And I was like, so do you know anyone? He's like, yeah, I'm looking at him.

He's like, yeah, you're born for it. I'm like, all right. Well, shit. Yeah, I'm the same way, man. I have a marketing degree in background, so it's like it doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of sense to hire it out. But it's a big chunk of time, though. Yeah. Hey, especially this year, like I said, because with that pre-COVID levels, you're going to have to spend more to make more.

And you can't be afraid to do it. Like Les said, you're basically doing everything. And here's the thing is that, you know, advertising works. It's the conversations like I don't really entertain anymore. It's like, oh, does it even work? Just like, just stop it. Like, it works. Give me a break.

Like you could let you could spend a million dollars on advertising. You might only make a million and one, but it does, it does work. Right. I think there's just a general, people are afraid to spend that much, money. And for a lot of them, you know, you get into pay per click, dude, you're, you're burning some cash. You know, you might as well start the fire. But, I mean, it'll come back to you. You just got to stick with it. For sure. Yeah. Cool. Well, I wanted to get into this employee topic. So I guess I wanted to start from the beginning. So when did you guys decide to make that switch to more of an

employee focused company? Um, you know, kind, well, I guess my philosophy is always there, but, you know, kind of like practically on our website and our branding more recently. There's kind of, to me, I kind of see this like, this lifestyle, this timeline of a brand where kind of like the story brand thing is really popular and this the customer journey and all the stuff.

And we did that. And we had our website, our branding all towards that. And it was great. But it does have, it does feel kind of amateur at some point. you need to present yourself as you have to remember that. And sometimes I remind my salesmen,

like they're doing follow-ups and stuff like that. You'd be like, hey, dude, they called us. They invited you into their home. I don't care if you feel like you're being annoying. Like, they shouldn't have called you. They can hit unsubscribe. And until they do, you will call them. And you will make a sale.

But when it's always the customer journey, heavy, heavy, heavy customer journey, you just kind of it just always kind of feels like you're you're a bother so now so I was looking at my competitors and you're seeing our two largest competitors and you're kind of looking at their website I'm thinking like okay so it's like the owner is there and he's like I'm the we do this and that we're great you should be so honored to call us and you're like all right I don't really want that and I also don't want to tell the customer to kick rocks so when we did our when we kind of really focused on our vision of values, it kind of fell in place because it's all,

it's kind of a cheat code where, you know, you say you're focusing on employees, which we are. And most of your customers are, everyone's an employee in some level. So it works. You know, they appreciate it. They see that you're taking care of them. You advertise that you're taking good care of them, which we do. And then you have guys who take, exceptional care of the employees because they love their job and they love where they're at. So it's like it's like it's actually customer focused by being employee focused. Yeah. And when I was in kind of like more luxury construction in San Diego, it was so customer

focused, super, super white club, very, very nice firm. And to this day, some of the most beautiful projects have ever been a part of, really proud of it. but it was always at the expense of someone, you know, like going to warranty calls that are like, they're just like demoralizing like LED light bulb switches. Well, you said they would be 10, they would last 10 years.

It's eight and a half. Literally that kind of stuff. And you're like, tell your boss, like, dude, are we really doing this? He was like, yeah, he spent a million dollars on a kitchen. You're doing it. You're like, okay. Like, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, that can be rough. That's for sure. I mean, were you guys worried that it was, going to affect the customer experience or were you just so confident that hey you hire top-notch employees that they're going to take care of the customers too yeah i mean it's kind of it's kind of my personality uh kind of take it or leave it sort of thing anyways um so yeah i mean there was a little bit of pushback from people on the outside a little bit of like eye i raising

And even in our mastermind group, kind of gone in a tussle a couple of months ago because to send a screenshot of an email where I thought a customer is being ridiculous because they were. And they're asking questions, what drives me crazy is you ask questions that are black and white in the bid and you know they've read the bid. And it just kind of feels like a gotcha moment. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, politely you'll be like, yeah, you know, if you just reference your bid, it's in there sort of thing, right? And I would say that that is employee focus. you're setting the tone for the relationship. Yeah. If you're, if the salesman, if the lady answering the phone,

everyone from the get go, everything is, oh yes, sir. Oh, absolutely, sir. Like, that's, that sets the tone forever.

And you're marrying this customer. Uh, you know, in our world, 20 year warranty. Uh, so like, I have to,

I have to like bow down for 20 years. Right. Just because you're, you don't want to tell them. That's in your estimate. Like why you're like, come on. And it does. I mean, I think it wears, and you're dealing with, you know, tradesmen that might not be,

they're not necessarily, yes, they're in customer service, but they might not be like, at some point they didn't sign up for that. Right. Yeah. Not quite as tactful with that kind of thing. I mean, I think that I still think that it's almost as good as the sale. is saying no to someone who has those red flags in the beginning, right? I mean, it's one of the best things.

It's one of the most freeing things that you could do. And if you haven't done it, if you're listening to this, do it. Like when you see those red flags, when they're sending that email with 25 questions, when they're trying to get those gotcha moments or add warranties or this or that, just say, we're not a good fit and leave it at that. And you will be shocked at how lovely that feels. And we've had, and I used to do the, I'll give them the I don't want to do it price, but then they accept it.

And I've had, like, we've had horrible situations. I'm still dealing with the lady. We did her house like two and a half years ago. And it's just totally absurd. And I was like, dude, I did not charge her. And it was just like, I should have just told her, no. Yeah. That's the only focused, you know, because it's because I, after, after they cash,

after they signed the contract, it's out of the salesman's hands. But like if you're setting the tone for it, then it's employee focus, which is customer focus. Because now they're not going to the next job being a jerk. Yeah. They're not being frustrated, you know. Yeah. Yeah.

So I guess, you know, that employee focus obviously has a huge overlap with the customer advocate focus, right? I mean, they're one and the same in a lot of ways. They really are. It's kind of, it's, I don't want to say it's a gimmick, but it's just kind of a play on words where it does show itself practically, but generally it shows itself practically kind of at the beginning, you know, of the beginning of the relationship. Yeah. And why, you know, obvious, there's obvious reasons, but, you know, why to you is being a customer advocate important, especially in the service-based businesses that we're in? well waterproofing and foundation repair is like as slimy as it gets so yeah i mean there's

it's it's it's circling a lot of these big companies i mean they're circling drains on like morally questionable uh so it's it's kind of it's kind of one of those things where it's like you either you either bite your tongue and you do and you do right by your customers which we will do and which i did for a long time but you're like okay at some point you've created yourself an authority figure. You've made yourself the expert. So at some point, you have to do something. You have to say something.

Sure. You know, that's kind of, that's just not doing anything or not like kind of bringing a light to it in some level is also wrong. Yeah. So, yeah. I mean, it's, that's, that's really, that's really how that started. Yeah. Yeah.

No, that makes total sense. So, you know, getting to the kind of like the interview process for you guys, I mean, it starts with your culture. And so how did you guys develop that culture? Do you guys have, you know, visions and what, how do you guys have it in-house? How does that look and feel in-house? And then how do you take that to the first start, which I guess is creating an ad for a job, right? Yeah. So super practically.

Luckily, I'm a pretty decent writer, pretty decent at, you know, putting voice in my writing. A lot of these, you need to spend more time. I realize how important it was to spend time on creating a job post just because how many responses we were getting and people being amazed by it, you know, especially for, especially for work as hard as waterproofing. I mean, there are very few construction jobs. They exist, I'm sure, and someone I'm sure will say something. there are very few construction jobs that are as hard as crawl space waterproofing and basement waterproofing. You have guys digging holes on their sides wearing a respirator, sitting in water. It's like I used to, when I was doing the labor with them, I remember I had the same joke every time.

A new guy would be down there being a horrible one and I'd look at him and be like, you should have gone to college, huh? Like, yeah, I was like, yeah, me too. Like, dude, it's rough. Yeah, so spending a lot of time writing your job post and and painting vision for them. And making sure that, you know, obviously you have to have your vision and values first. And you have to know where at least some idea where the company is going. I mean, that's a gift. Right.

But, you know, sharing how they will fit into that, I think goes a long way. People want to like, you want to think that, you know, guys who are in construction, they don't think like that. But hey, man, they have families too. You know, they don't want to. The people that we want to hire, they don't want a job hop. So when they're reading that and that like strikes a chord, then, you know, those are the guys that you want. You want those guys that strike the cord. Yeah.

So, you know, our super practically is we give a very brief summary of where we're at and our growth and a very brief summary of where we're going. and how they fit into that. And then, you know, and then we make it super clear that it's not for everyone. You know, it's basic sales, you know. Talk them out of it in it. And then we even share, you know, raise structures. Like, so where we start and where you finish and practical timelines for that. So that's one of the big reasons why I think we get so many applications.

And obviously it's dependent on our market. Maybe the Portland market has a high degree of labor. I don't know. But what I do know is that we have some pretty amazing returns on just, and we only use Indeed now. I don't even anything else anymore. I've tried a lot of other things. Indeed seems to be, you know, where everyone's at.

Okay. Great. You talked a little bit about your Christian faith, and I'm curious how that kind of, because your team is as well, how that kind of lend a hand to your guys' culture and how you guys go about your business. I mean, obviously it's going to be a big part of your culture, but kind of going back to what you said about your industry can be a little bit slimy is doing right by the customers, right, making sure that you're always, you know, leading from a place of integrity. And obviously that'll come back to you. It might not come back to you with the highest sales or the best job, but you're doing the, when you hit the pillow at night, you don't have that, like that regret of like pulling one over on somebody, right?

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I mean, it's very clear in scripture, you know, that Christians need to be, you know, we need to strive to be the best. We need to have a high degree of excellence. And we also, you know, it's no, it's not, it's not like I'm. being a theological way is to say we can't be taking advantage of people to get a couple bucks, you know? Yeah. So and sometimes it says it's sometimes it's as simple as, you know, telling a customer like, man, I had multiple bids last month where, you know, you're going in

and someone in the Portland market knows what I'm talking about. A competitor gone in there, tell them their house is sinking, right? And they need to do helicals. 60,000 dollars worth of foundation work. Yeah. And I'm walking and I'm looking and I'm like. like, I literally don't even see a foundation crack. Like houses, and I'm telling the customer, I'm like, yeah, you know, it is impossible for a house to sink without cracks unless the whole thing is sinking individually at the same exact time. Like, there has to be something.

And she's like, well, he was talking about this crack right here, talking literally hair, not even a hairline. Yeah. And I told her, hey, I could pour you a new foundation tomorrow. That would be there in three weeks. Yeah. And then she's like, now they're still so scared that they still want to do it. Like she's literally throwing money at me.

And I'm like, no. So those kind of things are not uncommon, I guess. I would say probably literally three times a month, four times a month, some sort of thing like that. Yeah. And then I also think that. it's part of it was a it was a larger part of you know our hiring at the beginning just because I just didn't have I didn't have the skill set to manage culture like I do now so it was like okay I know I have to hire young men from the church this is going to get out of control

right and now it's now it's not like now it's not necessarily like that we do happen to have a lot of Christians from our church but um but if you have that base and guess what Those guys are all still here. And that made a huge difference. So now they're like, now they're like my culture police, you know. And it's great. It kind of,

because they don't want to be around, they don't want to be around losers either. They don't want to be around guys who are, you know, gawking at girls on the corner while they're out of stoplight. You know, they're like, come on,

man. Yeah, totally. I mean, it's a good lead into my next question, which is how do you police that, that quality control of your culture? and obviously having a good firm foundation that doesn't have a bunch of cracks, Mrs. Smith,

you know, that when you have those people policing it, that's got to be a big start for, you know, making sure that you keep your quality control, right? Yeah. We, I stopped making, like, I stopped making excuses, you know, for guys. You know, I had, we had, you know, we all go through this phase where we're like, Kind of just like the customer, you know, you shouldn't have, you know, you shouldn't have taken the job. You have these guys, you know, you shouldn't have hired. And he knew from the beginning and you ignore things.

Like, oh, man, but he shows up on time or he works really hard. And you're just like, at some point, you're like at what cost. And the cool thing is that, you know, the best thing about being a business owner is that, you know, you get to create, you kind of get to create your own world, right? you know, talking about faith, you know, the Lord has entrusted you with this, like, amazing gift. You might not want to ruin it with guys who are willing to do good work, but also ruin your reputation brand. Right, right. So the way I hire, the way I police it is mostly at the beginning, you know, is in that hiring process. So is filtering through, is filtering through guys very, very, very strictly asking them, asking them very direct questions about where they want to go, where they wanted this, you know.

So it's like, you know, it's common in construction. You ask someone like, hey, so where do you see yourself, you know, you're, you ask them a question about their career. And they just kind of like, I don't know, man, it's just a job. You're like, okay, well, this job ain't for you then. Yeah, yeah. You know, I spend a lot of time. And because I, and I don't hire my friends, but I do only hire guys who could be my friends. And because you do that, you find yourself, you know, you want to spend time with them.

You know, you want to go out of your way to make sure that when you're getting a job update, when you're getting a call, you know, you don't need it to be all business. You know, you can talk to them. Yeah. you can it's it's pretty easy um and then another practical ways is that you know just like any uh home service business who has multiple trucks and if you're not doing this you should you know we do random spot checks uh ask customers uh how it was from start to finish and you know no surprise it's always great yeah and then also empowering those guys who have been there you know you have your core trusted guys and you want that group to always be building

So I always ask constantly, we hired three guys last week, two guys and a new girl to answer more phones. But I asked those guys like, hey, like, how's he doing? Is he going to fit in? What do you think? Like, is he following the job site rules and all this kind of stuff? And, you know, you got to empower those people, you know, to set their own culture to because it's their job site. It's not my job site. Yeah, yeah, that's a good point.

So in the ad, I mean, obviously you're trying to get some things in that ad that would point to people similar to you guys, right? Yeah. Trying to, you know, some hooks and some things that are about, you know, longevity there and about, you know, them being able to expand. This is not just a job. You know, all those things, which make tons of sense. How do you guys go from that? How do you know who you're going to interview at that point? Or do you just like make sure you talk to everybody?

Is it kind of a feel? Like you have a checklist? Are you like? No feels. We do. And indeed you can ask questions. You make them type out questions. I always ask like four or five questions.

Questions, the answers I want. If you don't answer those questions, I'm not, you automatically are disqualified. Most people don't answer those questions. So if we get 100, 200 applicants, I bet you 30 of them will answer the question. So that does a lot of them. them because guys are going through there and just they're just applying you know applying for jobs yeah um and in those questions i get a little i i i i tighten it down even more um we don't we used to hire we used to hire guys who like didn't have like a labor experience uh i don't do

that anymore you have to have it's a this is the worst first hard job you could get yeah like So I want, even if you tell me that you did like, you do landscaping or something like that for your grandparents, like something, you have to show that you had a miserable job for a year to something. Right. So, so one of our questions is, is like, what kind of labor experience have you had? I asked them the city they live in, things like that. The city they live in, I think is, it's kind of. kind of one of my like little is is kind of one of our keys is because I realize like I had guys, you know,

wanting to drive from a long way and it just, you're just like, man, you're going to drive, you're going to have a 40 minute commute. Yeah. To go dig a hole under some lady's house. Yeah.

And you're just like, you think you want that, but you don't want that. So I try to act in their best interest. And it's like, because it's going to, it's going to, it's going to wear them down.

So we try our best to really only hire. So we have almost everyone lives in Wilsonville, Oregon City, which is where we're at. And it's because of that. And it's because of, you know, obviously hiring from our church and other reasons like that. Yeah. Yeah. You know, we're pretty restrictive in where you live. I don't let guys have long commutes.

And, you know, people, oh, I really want to work there because I'm like, sorry, dude. It's like, you're going to hate me in six months. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, do you think there's something like unique about your interview? So once you kind of talk to them on the phone, I mean, obviously their application looks pretty good.

They've answered the questions. Then you have them come in. Is it just you that's looking? Do you guys have a panel? How do you guys go through the interview process? Yeah. So you have to follow. You have to answer all the questions.

Okay. I don't care, you know, I don't care through spelling errors. I can't spell either. So whatever. And then, yeah, I do have, I rank them very practically, a piece of paper. and then I call them and then if you don't answer you know that's fine you might be at work

so I text you and leave a voicemail it depends on kind of like I guess it kind of depends maybe there's a little instinct in here but it's like on how quickly you respond but you know these lists get narrowed down pretty quickly and then you realize that now you're only talking

to like some pretty talk to your candidates so yeah when I talk to someone on the phone I just I just ask them most people like to talk about themselves so you just ask them hey so you're looking for some work and usually people just talk and then you just ask them some question about their jobs you know kind of verify ask and then I always ask like what they like so I don't ever it's kind of a sales trick to

you know you don't ask what they didn't like about someone you ask oh what did you like about it right and they never it's always negative. So then you ask like, hey, what did you like about working here or there? And usually if it's a positive response, that's someone I want to work with. Yeah, you know, he was a good guy, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But he just couldn't afford me to give raises. I understand that, you know.

So I try to really give them an opportunity to shoot themselves in the foot by like kind of, you know, I don't want to gossip. I don't want a guy who's just sitting here talking about all his bosses and stuff like that. Right, right, right. Good point, good point. Yeah, so we get, you know, I think the last job posting in a day, we have 160 applicants or so. I think I called, I think I narrowed it down to about 30 guys based off their questions, and then I probably called 15. And then of those 15 on the phone, I had in-person interview.

with six or seven. And of those six or seven, five showed up. And of those five, you know, we offered two jobs. So if you are like, if you're hunting, if you're ideal, if you're bybox, your customer base is this ideal guy, then talk to that ideal guy and just find him. And he's there. And I don't think you have to make very many like, I don't think you have to make very many excuses when you approach it like that.

Yeah, yeah, that's a good, good point. I mean, do you talk about, so once you, I guess once you hire them, are they already asking about advancement, or are you upfront about advancement? And then they kind of, what does that look like once they're in house? Like, how do they move from the low end to the up the ladder? Yeah. This is probably a lot to do with the kind of work we do. you know, a lot of these guys, especially people who aren't like 19, and that's the other thing is we don't hire, we don't, we no longer do guys who are like, yeah, I'm only going to do this for six months or certain things. It's like, no, dude, this is, I want tradesmen. I'm glad that you're going to college. You think that's the way to better your life. But, you know, this, not, not here, you know, go somewhere else. But we hire guys who want to be in construction. So that's a very specific question we asked. Do you want to be in the trades?

And we don't call it labor. We don't call it this. We say you want to be in the trades. Do you want to be a waterproofer? You know, you ask, you talk to, you're, you're, you're, you're being interviewed to be a plumber and electrician or you meet a plumber and electrician at a bar. You don't ask him what he does. He doesn't say he's in construction, you know.

He's like, I'm a plumber, you know, because I think it's harder than it is. Just joking. But it's like, it's, we've really done the same thing with waterproofing. Hey, hey, you're not, you're not a tradesman. not a demo guy like you're a waterproofer. So we asked them, do you want to be in the trades? You want to be a tradesman. And if they say yes, you know, that's one of the big things.

Sorry, I got on a tangent. What was the- Yeah, no, I was just saying like what, when do you start talking about advancement or perks, all those other things that come along with what you guys do, is that right up front? Because I'm afraid if you do it right up front, people are going to be like, ooh, you know, seeing dollar signs, you know, like when do you bring that up to them? Yeah.

Sorry. So we've already, we've already narrowed down kind of our ideal candidate. And our ideal candidate for this is someone who's been in labor, knows hard work. Very similarly hard work. Has low turnover rate in that too. So very big on low turnover rate. I've had guys walk off jobs in like an hour sort of thing. And I'm just like, I knew it. I knew they had too many jobs in the last year. So most of the guys who work for us, you know, they've had, they left their last job of, you know, about a year is usually where I cut it off. I want you somewhere for at least a year. Because it's, it's tough in construction, right? Especially since most construction companies suck to work for. So now you have this, so now you have this guy who's already made it that far,

who really is just trying to take care of his family, likes construction enough and knows he can make money doing it. It wants to just stop job hopping. Yeah. So yeah, I talk about, about benefits and raises right away. And it's actually even in the job posting. But the way we have it structured is, first off, I pay way more than our competitors, like way more. And, but we get, it takes a while to get the top pay, but you get a lot of raises at first.

So you start pretty low. And then you're getting raises, big time raises. And, you know, the first couple are, like, you better not show up late or you better not call. call no call no show that's just those are just givins but and then after that it's heavily based it's heavily based on on culture you know like are the guys are the guys vibe in with you is everything good and you can't do that if you can't do that if you have like some if you have like some douchebag who like thinks like hazing and like being a jerk is okay right the only reason i can do that

is because people are cool here they're nice they like want you to to succeed. Right, right. So it's like, so I know if Ian or Al or one of these other guys says like, yeah, man, he's, I don't know, dude, he's this or that. I'm like, sweet. That's all I need to hear. You know. Yeah, I mean, you got to, that's cool that you empower him that way. And it's not just your ego of like, no, I hire that guy. He's going to be great. You're going to be great. You got to listen to the guys that are spending, you know, eight hours at a house digging a hole. Right. And they're my golden goose, you know? Yeah.

Like, these are the guys who've been digging holes for three years. And, like, those, these are the kind of guy. So you're, and, you know, you're not necessarily asking everyone. But you're asking the guy that if he left, you'd be devastated, right? Yeah. Like, yeah. So we've even talked about, it's probably a little too much. But my production director was like, hey, should we have the job leads be part of the interview?

I'm like, yeah, I like that's not. But it's like, it is that important. I get where he's coming from. Yeah. It's that important. Yeah. No, that makes sense. But in regards to, you know, like I said, they make good money.

They have health insurance that I pay a lot, most of it. Yeah. We get, they get bonuses based off of reviews, like Google reviews. Okay. If the customer, but I, you know, I don't make it so like, oh, that customer just has to leave a Google review. They have to leave a Google review and mention their name. And I give them a script essentially like kind of empower them on how to do it. And then Bill 12 is set up to auto do it.

So like you set them up for success. Yeah. And it's like, and guess what? That works with the marketing. And now you go at our Google page and it's like, oh, Fernando, oh, Al, all these guys, they were so good. and that goes so much further than just being like, oh, service is great. And I started doing that.

That kind of fell on my lap. It was because all the reviews, when I was doing everything, all the reviews were like, oh, deal on this, telling this, I'm like, oh, deal on this, I'm like, dude, this is ridiculous.

Yeah. So I was like, hey, you guys get reviews. You mentioned their name. I'll give you 50 bucks. Yeah. And then it got so big. It was like, all right, you do this, you do that. Now they have tears.

So now they get over a certain amount. Like, there's guys getting like $300, an extra day of bonuses. for paycheck. Nice. Nice. That's cool. What about like, you know, long-term perks? So, you know, obviously they have, they have insurance. They're getting paid well. They're getting, you know, they're getting frequently bumped up and pay. They're, they're there, right? When do they feel like, when do you feel? When do they feel like they're part of the team? Like, these people aren't leaving unless something they're moving out of state. You know what I mean? Like, is there a feeling or is

there a moment? Yeah, it's something that we constantly ask. I bet you if you ask my production director, like, what's the first thing I ask when I call for updates, you know, on the job sites and stuff? Because, you know, he's managing all the job sites, all the crews. It's the only thing I ask is like, hey, how's like, schedule, whatever, you know, that's, right, right. We've got that dialed. It's like, hey, like, how's the mood? Like, how's everyone doing? Every single day, probably too much. you know we really squash it pretty quickly these like little embers sort of thing if you're on it you're talking to people every day which i do uh you can you can get ahead of it um i had a guy where i was and it wasn't even spying but you know i have cameras on my on our yard and i was watching it

once and i'm like dude i feel like he's been sitting there for a while and i watched it again watch again oh he's he's milking the clock you know and it was like and for me all right you you're making good money. I feel like you trust me. This and that. So like, why do you, you're stealing from me? Why are you stealing from me, right? Right. And I was actually out of town when this happened, when I realized it. And I couldn't sleep. I called him. Like, walking into dinner, I call him. I'm like, hey, man, we got to talk. I just asked him like, hey, man, what's up? Like, I feel like you're not happy. I feel like there's something going on. And I don't know why. And he was like, yeah, I've been meaning, I know, I'm sorry. And guess what? He goes to the church. And he,

He was like, I'm really sorry. Like, I should have talked to you about this. And he felt like he was like, he was just being impatient, right? He was like, I just don't know if I can see myself here. Like, I just don't want to be doing labor forever. I'm like, bro, you're 22 years old. Right. I'm like way older than you.

And I just stopped doing that. Yeah. I know, but, you know, like he sees in his head, these management positions running out. And I'm like, bro, like. this is going to be the biggest home service company in 15 years. Yeah, I have anything to say about it. Like,

yeah, I promise you, you're going to be okay. Yeah. And, you know, and then he realized, and then I realized like,

gosh, man, I haven't given you any direct feedback. I hadn't, I hadn't shown up on your job, so I haven't done any spot checks, nothing on you. So it was my fault.

He just felt like, you know, he was just like a cog, and, and it was, and I had just kind of like neglected him. Yeah. If you're doing it,

that you're keeping up on it and it was like this was like a big thing you know because you have a guy milk in the clock you got a guy with a bad attitude it spreads like a cancer right big time yeah and so the next point i guess would be do you do regular performance reviews um and and if not or like you said making sure you're in constant communication because yeah people have those those moments of doubt, right? And if you're not checking in, then they might slip away. Yeah, I, with my like management, so my production director specifically for labor, I mean, he's he's become, so he was my business partner who's not involved in the day to day. He was his high school best friend. And we didn't grow up together anything like that. I met him when I hired him. But, you know,

we've become super close. And we're, we're good friends now. I would, I hope you would say that. Brian don't hurt my feelings. I'm sensitive. But, you know, it's, we talk a lot, you know, tons of time on the phone. Yeah. About baseball, about this, about that. And he knows that that's what I'm asking. So, yeah, do I do reviews as often?

So he does, like, we do monthly stuff. So we'll do a random spot check. We just started doing this because that conversation I talked to you about. I was like, sure, figure this out. And getting into the cult and keeping a track on culture, you're like,

you don't realize it's gone until something like that happens. Especially when you're growing. I had gone into one of my dark holes of like doing a project that we were doing our website. And it took, you know, three months of copy and design. It was a lot of work.

Yeah. And you're, and you, something gets neglected. And you like come out, you like come out of your cave. You're like, guys, what's up? And you're like, the world's on fire. And you're like, oh, no. So, so yeah, it's,

we do, I do quarterly with them and he does monthly. And then every other month, what we used to do when we were smaller, there's this bar in our town. We would have all our meetings there. And I always had an open invite, you know, one Saturday, if you guys want to come, you know, so we try our best to, we try our best not to make it all business. You know, most these dudes, a lot of these guys are single. So like if they hear on a Saturday afternoon, they can come like get a free burger and a pitcher of beer, they're for it. Yeah.

Yeah. That's cool. Keeping that. Yeah, you got to know who they are as people too, right? I think there's a, I talk to a lot of folks in our industry where, you know, we've grown up on third generate, you grow up with, it's my way of the highway, just come to your job. nobody really knows what their lives are like. And you know,

you don't even know if they're married. You don't even know if they have kids. You know nothing because you don't care because it's all about the job and about your performance. Super common. Yeah, super common, right? And it's so strange because it's like, no wonder why they just move on to the next job.

You know, we've commoditized them. And sure, they should go for more money. So it's harder. It's harder too. Yeah. It's more,

it's more people hear that like, oh, I don't want to, I'm not interested in spending time with my employees or like that. I'm like, I get it. If I hired that guy, I wouldn't want to spend time with him either. Yeah. How about you hire someone you want to be around and just stop, like, stop being a jerk. Like it's like, so it's, you know, some people, you know, I'll try to help friends or talk to other owners or this, ask for pointers, stuff like that.

I'm like, I don't know, man. I don't know if you haven't in yet. Yeah. Yeah. Like, you're still cursing on. job sites. Yeah, come on. Get over, man.

Yeah. Go to, like, you know, you need Jesus. Then you can come talk to me. I can't fix you. Yeah. No doubt. Man, Dylan, you've guys, you guys have created a really cool business and, you know, from a fellow peer and contractor, you know, good job.

Keep it up. I mean, what are some exciting things that better basements and waterproofing is looking forward to in 2025? Oof. We'll be a world of concrete next week. So I'm excited to be in Vegas. Oh, yeah. Vegas. Nice. Yeah, so I'm taking Brian, the other owner and the one that may or may not like you.

Yeah, I think we like me. And he owes, we had a bet. He owes me, he owes me $500 on a Baccar out of hand too. So. Nice. So we got that. We're trying to, just cats out of the bag a little bit. We got certified with ECP, Earth Contact products to do helicals and houselifting. So that's kind of our next, you know, waterproofing is humming. It's, we have no warranty complaints, no callbacks. Like it's a well-oiled machine. So it's kind of like what's the next thing? We really want to get into helicals and lifting. Hopefully actually commercial.

I want to do that for commercial. That's the next big gorilla. And that's a big thing. I mean, that might be, well, it might be another business is kind of what we're coming to the realization of. Yeah. Yeah, that's our big thing. And also, we've been hunting for real estate, you know,

trying to buy a yard for the business because leasing is for suckers. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Totally. Well, thanks again for being here. How do people connect with you if they want to learn more or learn more about your business and connect with you?

Yeah. LinkedIn is all my other stuff is managed by someone else. So LinkedIn is my best way to contact me. Okay. or the info out on our website, info, email will feel forward it on. Awesome. Well, thanks so much for being here, Dylan. My pleasure.

Thanks. All right. Thanks. Thank you guys for joining me for another episode of Construction Executives Live. We'll see you next month. Hey, if you want, I need to connect with me, Jeremy at us construction zone.com. And we will see you next time. Bye.

Thanks. You've been listening to In The Zone and Construction Executives Live with Jeremy Owens. Be sure to subscribe to In The Zone and stay in the zone. the know with the best minds in the construction industry. To nominate an innovator or changemaker in the construction industry, connect with your management peers, and stay up to date with construction industry news. Be sure to visit usconstructionzone.com.