Business Innovators Radio - Interview with Apryl Pope Founder of Pope Financial Planning Discussing From Saving Your Money to Living on It

Episode Date: September 16, 2026

Apryl Pope, CFP®, CPFA®, CEPA®, is the Founder and Lead Financial Advisor of Pope Financial Planning, where she helps successful professionals approaching retirement turn what they’ve built into a clear plan for what comes next.With more than a decade of experience, Apryl serves as a Personal CFO to individuals and couples typically within 10 years of retirement, coordinating retirement, investments, taxes, insurance, estate planning, and other major financial decisions. Her planning-first approach provides comprehensive guidance without requiring clients to move all of their existing investments.A former Peace Corps Volunteer and lifelong educator, Apryl was named a 2025 Woman of Excellence by the National Association of Plan Advisors. She lives in Cincinnati with her husband and three sons and understands firsthand how career, family, and life priorities shape financial decisions.Her goal is to help clients move from asking, “Have I done enough?” to feeling confident about what comes next.Lear More: https://www.popefinancialplanning.com/The opinions voiced in this show are for general information only and are not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations for any individual. To determine which strategies or investments may be suitable for you, consult the appropriate qualified professional prior to making a decision.Influential Entrepreneurs with Mike Saundershttps://businessinnovatorsradio.com/influential-entrepreneurs-with-mike-saunders/Source: https://businessinnovatorsradio.com/interview-with-apryl-pope-founder-of-pope-financial-planning-discussing-from-saving-your-money-to-living-on-it

Welcome to influential entrepreneurs, bringing you interviews with elite business leaders and experts, sharing tips and strategies for elevating your business to the next level. Here's your host, Mike Saunders. Hello and welcome to this episode of Influential Entrepreneurs. This is Mike Saunders, the authority positioning coach. Today we have back with us April Pope, who's the founder of Pope Financial Planning, and we'll be talking about going from saving your money to living. it. April, welcome back to the program. Thanks, Mike. I'm happy to be back again. You know, this sounds to me like it is a mindset shift because for decades, we work and strive and grind and save and save and save for that day we, you know, punch out of the clock, you know, for the final

time at work. And now we're going to go, okay, I've been in saving mode for so long. Now what do I do with it? Have I saved enough? But I got to live on it. And it's kind of like going from the accumulation phase to the decumulation phase. Where do you start when you're working with your clients to help them understand this topic? Yeah, you're exactly right. And you said it. You've spent your career learning how to build wealth. And then retirement is requiring you to learn how to competently use it. So that is definitely a mindset shift. And so it's really been, and think about it, it's not, it's 30 or 40 years you've been rewarded for saving. And then retirements, all of a sudden going to ask you to do that exact opposite. Yeah. Spend, spend, spend. So yeah, it's almost like they

freeze. They're like, wait, wait, wait, what? You know, I've been, you know, living on beans and rice, so to speak, or taking the cheap vacations or, you know, cutting the coupons all these decades. And now I've got to spend my money and it just feels weird. Yeah. It feels really weird. And the rules are, I mean, they're simple. It's been save more, invest more, you know, don't touch retirement accounts. And then exactly when the paycheck stops, now you want me to start taking money out of these accounts? Yeah. That I've been protecting for decades. Like, it's psychologically difficult.

Even when the math says you're completely fine, which is what we see. We can do the math and the numbers and the testing, but it is psychologically difficult to flip that switch. And so we say it and people understand it, but the way we actually see it is we have people. they can afford the trip, the renovation, they're helping their kids. But spending, it feels, it almost feels like wrong. It's like because they've just never shifted from that saving mindset into an income mindset. And, you know, part of the good retirement planning is giving people that permission to do that. So, yeah, it's kind of like a, like we mentioned identity shift, or it's a mindset, but it's almost to an identity. So it's like my,

identity is building and growing and I've got this much money in all these accounts. So how do you help someone know the difference between like prudent spending and that unnecessary fear of, oh, I'm spending money. That's a bad thing. Yeah. I first remind them also that you didn't spend 30 years building the money just to admire the balance, right? Yeah.

So eventually the money has to do the job that it was built. You didn't buy that Corvette just to leave it to the garage. Go drive it. Absolutely not. Yes. like absolutely so once you get that part um then it's really figuring out you know what do you want to do and bringing joy and happiness the whole point of this is like you want what do you want to do what do you want to do and so when you really have that conversation to help people dream a lot of times you get

to the stage we haven't dreamed and you know wish and what i would want to do when you see what they want to do you can help them you know realize that if we set a plan to make sure you're set and all of your bills and everything are taken care of. Then all those dreams that we just talked about, let's put them on paper. Let's actually show you that you can actually fund those and you can take an extra trip or you can do whatever. Go get some new clubs.

Like, do what you want to do, but making sure it's part of the plan. And if you don't have that in place, you have the temptation of underspending. And then you miss the life that you spent decades preparing for because it's like, oh, well, I could have spent this and still been fine? Yeah. You didn't know. We try to catch them before that even, Mike.

Like, while they're still in accumulation phase and working and having income, spend your money then, take your trips then. Like, you've heard the statistics of, like, the average inheritance age is, I don't know, like mid-50s or so. So it's like, imagine you, you know, your parents pass away and, you know, very sad. And, you know, you inherit something mid-50s. But by time you're like mid-50s, you know, kids are, a lot of the, you know, the struggling years are past you.

You know, it is the nice inheritance and stuff. But imagine if that grandparent, instead of like saving, saving, savings, so they could pass this along, you know, in their 90s, imagine when they have their kids, their children are in their mid-20s or 30s and they're raising three kids and trying to figure things out, like, how would a gift have changed that family dynamic then? And, you know, a vacation with the grandparents, you know, an extra one while the kids were still little, like spending it now. now even instead of waiting to pass things on, once you know you have that confidence that

you're going to be okay for life, you can start spending that down and having fun while you can still enjoy it and see the people that you're giving the money to enjoy it as well. Yeah, that's, you know, and it's like the mentality of, you know, die with two cents in the bank, but that doesn't mean you die with two cents in the bank and you never did the things you just described. It means I've got money allocated to take all these vacations. and I'm going to take care of the kids and the grandkids and I'm going to do the following other things. And then at the end of my life, I got nothing left. Well, that's good. So I think that's a

big thing for people to really articulate for themselves. So if you work with someone that goes, hey, I'm going to retire at 65 and I'm going to have a, you know, my money lasts until I'm 95. So what happens in a 30 year retirement plan if the market drops 20% year one? Oh, that's a little tricky. I mean, they go, oops, but doesn't that have a big domic? no effect? Yes, and it depends. So a 20% decline early in retirement is very different than a 20% decline while you're still working. So when you're still working and earning a paycheck, you can continue contributing every two weeks, you know, while the market's down and you'll have time to participate in all, you know, the recovery that's coming back. But in retirement,

if the market falls, you also need to sell some investments. If you do, if you had, if the plan was set up that way and you needed to or you didn't have a plan, then you have to sell some investments to pay your bills, you're taking a loss at the same time removing money that no longer has the opportunity to recover. That's a sequence of return risk. That's a double whammy. Ooh, yeah.

So we do not want someone reaching retirement and only then asking like, where is the next paycheck, you know, next month paycheck going to come from? We want to think ahead of that. And like what funds near-term spending, you know, what remains invested for long-term growth and where do we want income that's not dependent on the market, right? So the goal isn't to predict the next downturn. We can't. It's really to build a retirement plan that doesn't require you to predict it. And if you have those safeguards in place, though, you know, let's just say, hey, let's plan for, you know, higher taxes, higher inflation and whatever the case is.

If those things didn't happen, well, at least you were prepared. But if they did, now you're, you're, you had that in place. So if they didn't happen, you got more money to work with. If they did happen, the plan is right on track. Absolutely. Absolutely. Got to take care, got to put your oxygen mask on first. Take care of your needs first. Yep, yep, yep. So that those are all taken care of. So what are some of the, and I know that I'm going to use this word that starts with a T and rhymes with acts. But what, we can spend, you know, four hours on this one topic. But what's a tax mistake that people tend to make when they start taking the money out that they don't really think of, you know, because I think that a lot of times people like, well, I got to take out the RMDs or I got to do whatever, but there's

some tax things to keep in mind. Yeah, that's one of the biggest mistakes we see is really treating those retirement withdrawals like transactions, so not just a strategy. So a lot of people retire and naturally, you know, we just talked about this. They start thinking, okay, I need money. So I'm just going to take it out of my IRA. But where you take your money from actually matters, you may have a traditional IRA, maybe some Roth dollars, you know, maybe you have taxable accounts, investments, you know, like social security, pension, whatever it is. Those dollars can have very different tax consequences. So more taxable income can affect a couple of things. One, your social security amount that's taxable, potentially what you pay for Medicare. So retirement can also create

really like a, it's a really a window, like a valuable planning window, like when your income is lower, right after that paycheck stops, but before those required minimum distributions begin, you have a special, really valuable planning window that you can do some really cool planning in that creates opportunities for maybe a Roth conversion or some intentional tax planning. But there's a window there that you really want to take advantage of. So the question shouldn't just be where can I get the money? It should be where should I take it from this year? And what does that decision mean five or ten years from now?

You know, you brought up something interesting about Medicare and it made me think of, you know, there's got to be some two sides of the equation. Like what opportunities could disappear if you take money out of the wrong account first and what things happen on the other side of the equation like, oops, you got a penalty or extra taxes, what are some of those things to keep in mind? Yeah, as you mentioned, we talk, everybody kind of knows the idea of the, you know, oops, the market dropped and I may run out of money or things like that. But when you're looking at, and of course, tax, yeah, you have to ask all your tax advisors

for these things. But when you're looking at that tax planning and you're thinking about taking those funds out, how those, it's income. That's income. It's a reportable income. So you're going to get a tax form at the end of the year that you took money out of your retirement account, that's going to bump you up. You're making more income, just like it was another job. Well, some things like people, I think the buzzword now are what we,

there must be some video going, because I hear, I get a lot of questions about like the Irma's charges and I'm going to pay more in Medicare. And there are factors to how much money you make. And if you're pulling money out of your retirement accounts and still working, people are starting businesses. So you really want to think about what your income looks like because there are some other things that are dependent on what that income looks like that you end up paying for taxes penalties and things like that and when you're starting to take money out. So it's a lot and it's and nobody, I mean, I was a teacher. And it's different for everybody.

It's so different for everybody and nobody learns all this stuff. So I always don't beat yourself up. Like there's no class in school for this. Nobody taught this. They should have. They absolutely should have. What I was teaching in high school, I got it into the classrooms. But like, it's okay if you don't know it because when would,

you have found this out. I don't know how to be a dentist or a doctor or a software engineer. So, I don't know. But we know, they only do your environment once in life. We do it every day. Yes. Yes. Don't be afraid that you don't know something, figure it out, ask for help. You know, you mentioned about a video going around about Irma, this, you know, it's like we all live online and social media and we see things. Here's something that I've seen a lot. And I think that it's really interesting like, oh yeah, that makes total sense. But what if this happened and what if that happened? Here's what I mean. A lot of people are like, okay, when should I take social security? I'm going to take it the very second I can at age 62 because if you wait until 65 or 68 or 70 or

70, whatever those numbers are, yes, it looks better to get an extra grand a month if you waited, but then you didn't get the 20 grand a year for the next three to five years. So people are doing that math, but I think that the underlying calculation people don't make is, yeah, but what if you still are working at 62? You take so security and you're now above a certain income, whatever tier, and now you're paying all kinds of taxes on all kinds of things, and then that chips away into that math equation. Yeah, and the one thing, great thing you said there was the math equation, and I love that people are doing the math. I'm a math nerd. Literally, I have a degree at mathematics. Like, I love it. And before we were.

not having these conversations. So that is something I've seen the videos. I've seen the CFPs even that are, you know, talking about this. And these are great conversations. There's, you know, there's no one size fits all. But when you, it really is, what is your life need? What does your life need? If you can, you know, take it early and you do the calculations, you realize you're going to make some, you know, money. And actually, you could get out of work earlier, maybe, if that's going to change your lifestyle, then it might be a good fit for you. But the key here is do the math, do the plan. So you can make the decision. and it just doesn't happen.

And if anybody's out there, you know, it's a everybody, as soon as you hear this is what everyone should do, that's where you want to bring pause. Everybody should, you know, take it out. It's not going to be there later on. You can invest in and get much more. Everybody should do this. As soon as you hear everybody, you want to pause and do your own research and do your own math.

Just like I'm sure that sometimes people have heard this. Oh, there's a way you can pay a little bit more tax now voluntarily. and then reduce your overall lifetime tax bill. That might be the case, but does that work for every single person, every single time? Question mark. Yeah, that is the question.

Don't know. When you have things spread out over everywhere and you have like, you know, different advisors, different places and not someone seeing it all together, you might get really, if you've had this happen, like you get the perfect investment advice

from your investment advisor who only had three of your accounts. Your biggest account is your, 401k that they don't know anything about. Yeah. Or don't factor it in. Yeah. Exactly.

So you got to make sure whoever you're getting this advice from, you want to make sure they know. Give them the full picture. Yeah, give them the full picture. So at least they might have a chance. They still might not, you know, factor everything together the right way, but at least they need to know the full picture. So let's kind of shift years into what we kind of touched on earlier, you know, like

shifting from saving your money to actually living on it. What are some of the things that change psychologically when? someone goes from getting a paycheck every two weeks to creating their own paycheck from assets that they have from their retirement savings. Yeah, it honestly can be a little scary. So for a lot of people, you know, this retirement freedom, quote unquote, doesn't feel like freedom on day one. Like it's uncomfortable. This is what we hear. You know, you've had that paycheck every two weeks for decades and it stops. And the first time you're intentionally watching money leave. Those accounts you've been working so hard.

That is, it's scary. That's the one word that, and it creates anxiety. And, you know, even when the plan says you're doing okay, it's still, it's uncomfortable. So this is really where language kind of matters. So instead of saying, you know, in the mind or you're laying down like, oh, my God, I'm spending down my life savings. Like, well, not really. Your life savings is now creating your paycheck to, you know, help you continue the lifestyle you desire, you know.

And it's contributing to the happiness of your family because you're now present more often. You're traveling to see the grandkids. And I've heard it said very similar to what you mentioned there. And this is kind of a strange thing. But it's like if you get all bunched up about paying your bills like the light bill and the cable bill or whatever, just remember. It's almost like you want to write a little sticky note in when you write that check and go, dear person who is opening this, you're welcome for me contributing a little bit to. your job that you have. So really, when you're paying your bills, you're contributing to the economic engine of that company being able to stay in business. You're helping that person have a job.

So yeah, that mindset of, yes, I've accumulated enough. We put a good plan in place. I need to start spending it now, but it's not spending per se. It is contributing to the dream and vision of retirement that I've put together for myself and now I'm living it. Yeah, we want to help you confidently do that. So you're absolutely right. The ultimate goal of retirement planning is not just helping someone accumulate enough. It's helping them confidently use that money to live this life they've been planning for the whole time. So what is a good retirement plan need to look like before someone can stop watching the market every day and actually sit back and enjoy what they've done? I think that's a big problem that people have. It's like, oh, I saw the news. Or, oh, I looked online.

And that means, well, don't look at the micro, look at the macro. Yeah, the only reason you're worried about the market dropping is if, well, there's people have many reasons to worry about it. But I think what we're thinking retirement-wise, if you're worried that your lifestyle and your basics are going to change depending on that market, that's why you're watching it. If you know 100% like without a shadow of a doubt, I am going to be okay. I have this amount of money coming in for the rest of my life and the rest of my life. rest of my spouse's life, whatever that market is doing, the market is doing. What I know is my paycheck

that I've created is coming in. I'm going to be okay. I have everything. And we don't just go to the bare bones needs. Like everything that you really want to have your basic lifestyle and living on, once you know that you have that guaranteed, you can weather the other storms because that other money is there to grow and you know you're taking risk with that. You know you have time for that. The example you gave earlier, like, yeah, even if you're when you're, when you're, you start retiring. If you already know that everything is guaranteed for your main expenses, okay, the market drops 20% in that first year. And yeah, you got to wait to go 45% back up or something we were discussing. I mean, I'm still living my life while that's happening in those other

things. Yes. So that helps you have the confidence, I think, of knowing you can just ignore those things with what you actually need is guaranteed. Yep. Trust the process. Trust what we put into place the plan that we check, we stress tests every so often six to 12 months, trust that that's going to, you know, when you look at a two month, you know, window of, you know, market volatility, but then when you expand out and look at two years, it's like, oh, it wouldn't all that volatile. So trust that process that things were put into place for a reason and let them pan out. Now, there's a certain, you know, you know, a time where it's like, okay, now we need to make a change, but trust that process. I think that's a great point.

Absolutely. Well, April, this has been real exciting and eye-opening. If someone is interested in connecting with you and learning a little bit more, what's the best way that they can do that? Yeah, find me on LinkedIn. I'm very active on LinkedIn. You can always check out our website at Pope Financial Planning.com. And you can always reach me at Meet With April,

and this is April with a Y if you're listening. So Meetwithapril.com is where you can find me. Awesome. Thank you so much, April. Great chat with you again. Thanks, Mike. Thanks for having me back on. You've been listening to Influential Entrepreneurs with Mike Saunders. To learn more about the resources mentioned on today's show or listen to past episodes,

visit www. www.influentialentrepreneursradio.com.