Business Innovators Radio - Interview with David Newman, Author and Founder of the Do It! MBA Mentoring Program

Episode Date: May 10, 2023

David Newman is the bestselling author of “Do It! Marketing” and his latest book is “Do It! Selling: 77 Instant-Action Ideas to Land Better Clients, Bigger Deals, and Higher Fees.” He’s the founder of the Do It! MBA mentoring program and the host of The Selling Show, a top-rated business podcast with over 300 episodes. David is insanely focused on helping his clients get more leads, better prospects, and bigger sales. Even if you HATE to sell.Learn more: https://doitmarketing.com/sellingInfluential Entrepreneurs with Mike Saundershttps://businessinnovatorsradio.com/influential-entrepreneurs-with-mike-saunders/Source: https://businessinnovatorsradio.com/interview-with-david-newman-author-and-founder-of-the-do-it-mba-mentoring-program

Welcome to influential entrepreneurs, bringing you interviews with elite business leaders and experts, sharing tips and strategies for elevating your business to the next level. Here's your host, Mike Saunders. Hello and welcome to this episode of Influential Entrepreneurs. This is Mike Saunders, the authority positioning coach. Today we have with us David Newman, who's an author and founder of the Do It MBA Market Mentoring Program. David, welcome to the program. Hey Mike, it's great to be here. Thank you so much. Hey, so I want to hear all about your MBA mentoring program, the books that you have written, and the latest one that you have coming out. But get us caught up with your story. What is your background and your entrepreneurial journey to this point in your career? Sure. Well, like so many entrepreneurs, I now share what I most needed to learn myself back in the day. Yeah, if I could talk to my 25-year-old self, it would be. And here's where you're going to.

giving back. Oh my gosh, for sure. So I had a legitimate, I had a legitimate paycheck based 12-year career in corporate consulting. Mike, I had, I had stock options. I had health benefits. I had all these. I remember those days. Isn't that great? I mean, what a world. And then January of 2002, I go out on my own and I literally have no idea. about marketing, about sales, about all the amazing authority positioning that you teach and that you share with your clients. I couldn't even close a door, much less close a sale. And I struggled mightily for three plus years hitting every brick wall and every dead end. I made every mistake in the book and I made the good ones twice. This is what taught me that as an entrepreneur, whatever field we're in,

it's not about doing the work, it's about getting the work. And that's when I started to dedicate myself to really study and practice and hire the right coaches and the right mentors to give me a clue as to what's really going on. And I was doing this for probably five or six years to some level of success. And then one day I'm having lunch with a consultant friend of mine. And he throws down his fork, Mike. and he says, you should do this for a living. And I said, do what for a living? Like, eat, eat lunch with you? He says, no, all this brilliance that you're sharing about marketing and sales and

prospecting and lead generation. And Mike, I laughed at him. I said, don't be ridiculous. I'm not doing that. I'm going back to my big Fortune 500 clients where I was doing consulting and speaking and training. And thanks, but no thanks. Well, this guy, he's still a friend to this day. He really prevailed on me to look at this. And he says, David, you could serve big companies and you would be an okay consultant and I'm sure you'd have some positive impact. Or you could work with folks like me who desperately need your help and whose livelihood depends on the skills that you're so great at doing yourself and that you're so great at teaching, and you would have massively more impact. And that was literally the day, Mike, that was the wake up call to say, well, really, am I enjoying

these big corporate folks? Are these my people? Would I want to be stuck on a desert island with these people for the rest of my life? Or am I having a lot more fun with my consultant and coach and trainer and professional services, entrepreneur friends? And literally on that, day, I decided to dial back my corporate work and to start doing much more work with the independent professional service provider. And I never looked back. And here we are 16, 17 years after that initial decision. I love it. It reminded me of something I heard from a top top top consultant recently on a podcast. They were talking about working with corporate American. And they had put in this project and it was something in the realm of a six figure contract.

They got up and running months into it. And the main VP that they were working with for this big rollout, change, move companies. The new VP comes in and goes, yeah, we don't like what you're doing here. So we're going to scrap and take over from there. They didn't ask for the refund or anything. But the point was the bigger the company is the corporate entity is, the little they care about like true passion results. and, you know, interaction. And yet what you just described there is working with people where it really matters

and having that impact and engagement. And you see quicker results. You know, you have a speedboat. You can turn on a dime. You have a big, you know, cruise liner. It might take a while to get a turn. So I really like that comparison that you made. Absolutely.

So, and you also mentioned the word closing. And it reminded me of something. It's like, you know, in sales, yeah, yeah, we all know what closing the sale is. But in reality, it's not closing. anything, it's opening a relationship because I'm confident and I have not read your brand new book on selling, but I'm confident that you talk about treating people like relationships and building the relationship. So talk a little bit about the contrast between closing a sale or opening a relationship that has long-term lifetime value. Yes, absolutely. Well, and I think for most folks listening who really don't like sales or where sales is their least favorite thing that they have to be.

do kind of like a necessary evil, I would reframe that the whole, not just closing, but the whole sales process. If you don't like the word sales, you don't like the word selling, you don't like the word closing, you can set those aside and replace them with thinking of it like an invitation to a conversation. And the beauty here is no one's afraid of an invitation. Yeah. Invitations usually lead to things like parties or cake or bourbon or hamburgers. And then a conversation, is where you get to connect with cool people, it's engaging, you're exchanging ideas with them, some of those people may even become your new best friends. So literally inviting enough people to a conversation about how you might be able to help them, asking probing, relevant,

curiosity-based questions, not manipulative, not tricky, not salesy, not slimy. And if you do this the right way, Mike, and I talk about this in the do-it-selling book, most prospects will close themselves. So here are the closing lines. We're going to eat dessert first. The closing lines that I believe in is once you've laid out all of the pains, problems, heartaches, headaches, dreams, goals, aspirations, the impact of what they're up against, what they're trying to achieve, and you're coming into this with enough information and enough empathy, you can then, at the end of the conversation say something like, well, Mike, does what we talked about sound like something that you'd like to do? Or, hey, Mike, would you like to move forward with the plan that

we just talked about for you? Or, hey, Mike, what would you like to do next? Or, hey, Mike, what do you see is our next step to get rolling? And so, you know, being a human being, one of my early, early sales mentors, and I think you also believe in this, Mike, because even getting to know you a little bit, you've demonstrated this, people say, I want to be a better sales person. One of my early mentors said, don't worry about being a better salesperson. Be a better person and more sales will happen. Yep. Like the old quote that's associated with Zig Ziglar, which sometimes it's like, yeah, it could have been one of the biggies. But when you help other people get what they want, ultimately, then you will get what you want. So it's all about that giving, serving, providing

value. And it really is like, you know, don't try to sell, sell, sell, try to help educate, be that empathetic advocate for someone. And when you take that question-based consultative approach, you're just kind of diagnosing and asking questions and going, well, what seems to me, if you wanted to accomplish X, then maybe you need to use a tool like this, this, this, and this. And how does that sound? It's, you know, here's the thing that I get. And I've gone through a lot of sales trainings over the years and it's like this whole, you know, answer objections before they come up and scripting in this. And I kind of view it as just be a human. You know, it's not B to B to C. It's age, human to human, real is rare. Just talk and go, hey, you know, it sounds like you're really

struggling with. And it sounds like you'd really like to get to this place and, you know, gap. Here's, here's where you are. Here's where you want to be. You know, here's what I've got. Let me explain it to you and see if it resonates and I'll answer any questions. And, and I know. And I know. that sounds really scaled down as simplistic, but at the end of the day, people really do want to know that they are talking to someone they can trust. Oh, my gosh, for sure. And, you know, sometimes we're afraid to ask those very direct, very human to human questions, because we're afraid, oh, my gosh, what if they say no? What if they say, no, they don't want that? No, they're not interested in that. No, that's not a priority right now. One of the things I talk about in the do it selling book is you have to. qualify and disqualify much, much earlier. Because that way you're not wasting the prospects time. And more importantly, you're not wasting your time. So not every prospect is a good prospect. And frankly, not every good prospect is a good prospect for you. So really separating out,

you know, who is the most likely person that can truly benefit? You know, you benefit when you, you, take the sale to the bank and woo-hoo, I got paid. Do they benefit? Right. So who are the people that need it more desperately? Who are the people that will value it more highly? And who are your next client's success stories? Because I think that the relationship begins with the sale. It doesn't end with the sale. And certainly when people talk to me and I think you're the same way, Mike, we're not looking for our next paycheck. We're not looking for our next who's the next credit card we can run. We're looking for our next amazing case study success story. And that's who I'm looking for. And I will push back and I will disqualify and I will raise red flags. And I will say, you know what, I'm not quite sure we're ready

to help you yet. What I would do first is focus on area A, area B, area C, three to six months from now, if you want to come back, I would love to have another conversation with you. But right now, working with us is not the right thing. Imagine the reputation that you have when you're not interested in collecting credit cards, but you're really interested in helping people get results at whatever stage and phase of business they happen to come to you. So don't be afraid of disqualifying and turning people away. Embrace it. A hundred percent. And I'll tell you, that sounds wonderful, but a newer entrepreneur, salesperson, you know, business owner. that becomes so hard because they,

they hear that and go, yeah, but it sounds great. But man, it's hard to like get the words out of my mouth kind of, right? Well, so let me give you the counterpoint to that, of course, because we do want clients. We do want leads. We do want revenue in the door. The mantra is target what you want and you can always take what comes. So for example, if you know that you do your very best work with

this kind of client in this kind of situation who wants this kind of outcome, start asking yourself questions like, where do these people go for information? What Google searches are they doing? What associations do they belong to? What conferences do they attend? What publications do they read, recognize, and respect? And you can start doing a thought leadership campaign that gets you accidentally on purpose directly in front of these same exact. people. So when you target exactly what you want, all these people who are not a fit, not ready, they're not able to pay, they're not willing to pay, they don't see the value in what you do, rather than you turning them away, you're spending a whole lot less time in front of them in the

first place. And a lot of entrepreneurs take that mantra, target what you want and you can take what comes. They're great at the second half of that, Mike. And their business model is, we're going to take what comes, whoever happens to walk in the door today, whatever referrals we happen to get today, and that is totally passive and totally reactive. When you target what you want, and you can always take what comes through the back door or the side door, now your pipeline makes you brave. Now you've got enough people to talk to where the truly not fit kind of people, you are happy to turn them away or happy to send them a referral to somebody else because you know if they're not going to buy the person after them or behind them or the next one or the next one. So please embrace

this mantra that if you're not having enough conversations, once you build up your pipeline to a level where you have plenty of fish in the sea, you will be a braver and smarter salesperson. 100%. You said something else that I want to dive in and put a pin in so that it's really brought to life, which is, you know, having thought leadership, getting in front of your target audience. And I would say that if you could layer in an element of doing that with strategic alliances. So you think about if my target audience is X, whatever your target audience is, yes, you want to communicate to them and have conversations with them and have them view you as that thought leader and expert. Yes. At the same time, who already has the no like and trust

with that same target audience. It might be someone in another industry, but you can partner up with them. And if you can partner up with that strategic alliance and do some co-branded thought leadership, teaching kind of content that benefits you both and get that in front of the target audience, wow, that strategic alliance may already have dozens

and dozens and hundreds of clients, contacts that could benefit from your work. You're coming alongside them, helping them with business development, marketing. And now you're seen as that, that powerful force that is not pushy, pushy, but teaching and educating. And that adds an extra layer into what you're describing. Oh, my gosh, for sure. And I'm going to just reinforce something for the authority marketing strategist, because Mike already knows this. One of my definitions

of who's an authority and who's an expert, authorities by definition promote other authorities. Yeah. Right. This is why people endorse other people's books. This is why people are guests on each other's podcast. Because we as as thought leading authorities, it's not just me, me, me, me, me. One of the things I write about in the Do It's Selling book, I say, people are not tired of hearing from you. They really are not.

They're tired of hearing from you about you. Yeah. So how can you introduce? Here's my friend Mike Saunders. He has an awesome, amazing podcast. He's a fantastic thought leader. You need to follow Mike. Mike has some great programs that you need to know about, right?

We're always promoting people that are in sync with us and that are in alignment with our values. And that, you know what? There may even be some overlap. There may even be some overlap. And frankly, I've even promoted direct competitors because there are people that are following you in your audience that are not necessarily your clients. and there's someone else's clients. And it comes about from the, it comes from a position of law of abundance.

There's plenty of this is out there when I can promote this person and I can guide you in the right direction and I'm not pushy and I'm not saying give me your credit card right this minute. People feel that. You know, it's almost like they've said in sales training, your prospects can smell commission breath. Well, you don't want that. Right. Totally. So I think people sharing the spotlight and shining the spotlight on others, it's. So funny, I was just telling another friend of mine years ago, and I should do this again,

it wasn't a podcast, but it was either live streams or webinars. I did a whole series, Mike, called David's Cool Friends. The entire purpose of that David's Cool Friends series was to showcase and highlight other people. And that is really, really important that if you don't do that, you're going to be seen as sort of a self-centered, egotistical kind of person and folks typically don't like to do business with self-centered egotistical people. But I can't tell you how many thank you notes and emails and messages I get. Oh my gosh, you had Mike Saunders on your show. Holy smokes. I love that episode. He's so great. He's so fantastic. You will be thanked, not for the work that you do, but for some of the experts that you introduced to your audience.

And then that expert will be thanked for introducing their audience to you. So I wholeheartedly believe in the strategy that we're talking about right here, Mike, and I do it all the time. I love it. And I know that you've got the book, Do It Marketing. And then the latest one you have is Do It Selling, which it's neat that you started with marketing. And then now you merged into selling because that really is the progression. Some people think that sales and marketing are the same. And they're not. Marketing brings attention to something, brings awareness to something, and then selling brings the relationship into a monetary closing or opening of a relationship. So talk a little bit about your new book, Do It Selling.

Sure. So the Do It Selling book is really written for that entrepreneur who hates to sell. And so there are a lot of books like, oh, you got to love prospecting. You got to love lead. generation. You got to get out there and shake hands and kiss babies. And most of the entrepreneurs that I know love the work of their work and they really don't like the sales part. They may even like the marketing part because all the stuff you teach, Mike, is, you know, it's fun, it's creating content, it's establishing authority. It is putting your thought leadership out in various forms that are both visibility building and credibility building. But then the dog catches the car and I got a live one. I'm having a first conversation and I don't know what to say and I don't know what to pitch and I don't know what to sell. And the answer there, my friends, is you pitch nothing and you

say nothing and you sell nothing. And when I say you say nothing, you don't need to be talking. You need to be asking questions. Another one of my early sales mentors once laid this line on me. he says, you know, David, a prospect who is listening is not a prospect. And I had to think about that for a second. A prospect who's listening? I said, oh, so when I'm blabbing my lips, they're disengaged. They're going through their laundry list in their head. What do I have to do to get groceries this afternoon?

Oh, got to pick up the kids. It's my turn to bring snacks to soccer. A prospect who is listening is not a prospect. Prospect who is talking. is a prospect. So our job is as soon as humanly possible, get them talking about what's going on. With strategically crafted questions.

Yes, yes, yes, yes. So the sooner in a sales conversation, you get them talking, the more sales you will close. And that is about them feeling heard and them truly being heard, not just feeling heard. And it's about them building rapport.

Here's the other key. rapport is built not when you're talking, but when they're talking. Because now you are the trusted advisor, you are the expert, you are the sage, they're telling you what's going on, they're asking questions, they're venting, they're complaining. They're saying, Mike, here's what's missing, funky, broken, and sad. And you're just showing up with questions. Now, a lot of folks that are not used to this kind of sales process, they go, well, when do I get to show them how smart I am?

my friends, take yourself off the hook. You are always going to be judged far more on the questions that you ask than on the statements that you make. So don't worry about sounding smart with your statements. Worry about sounding smart with your questions. And dig, probe, uncover, find out what's really going on and be of good service to that prospect, even if it's your last conversation that you ever have. So you've got to be. brave, you've got to go deep, you've got to go deep in these prospecting conversations much, much sooner than most people think. And that's what's going to surface all kinds of amazing things. The prospect is going to close themselves. By the time you're done with this kind of deep dive discovery, and you've held the mirror up and you've guided the conversation strategically to where you want it to go, the prospect is going to realize, oh my gosh, I need some help. I can't do this on my own. Mike, how can we work together? How can you help me? How can we bring you in? I agree with all of that 1,000 percent. And I know that there's all kinds of nuances in there,

but one of the bigger ones that always will come up, I'm confident that you've addressed in the book, and I'm confident that you get this question a lot. David, man alive, everything you've asked me just has brought so much clarity to what I need. And yes, I need to be there and I'm here and there's a big gap. And I get all that. I am ready to move forward. I'm sick and tired. to be in where I'm at now, how much does it cost? Well, if how do you handle the cost? So there is how much does it cost at the appropriate time in a sales conversation? And there's how much does it cost when you haven't established any value, metrics,

gap, or anything else? So I redirect, if it happens too early, I actually redirect that very clearly and very assertively. Yeah. So let's say we're three. minutes into the conversation and someone says, okay, well, David, this is great. How much does your program cost? My answer would be, well, you know, we're not really there yet. And I actually, in the book, I've got 17 different answers to when people prematurely ask how much does it cost. So you can answer it

with wit and with humor. You can say it costs seven, well, I'm glad you asked Mike. It costs 17 million dollars and then pause and then say until i know more about what you're buying and i i bet if i knew more the cost would go down so would it be okay if i asked you a couple more questions right so i am owning that sales conversation i am taking leadership i'm using humor i'm being disarming i'm being charming but i'm not letting them hijack the call yes because they don't even they don't even know the full value and you don't know the full impact that you can make. So you, let's say you had several packages. You could say, well, hey, David, great question. I'm going to get to it. I'm really transparent. You're going to know exactly what it costs. My programs run between $500 all the way up to $15,000,

but I don't know which program would be best suited to you. So let me just continue asking a few questions and we'll just see what works. And it, you know, however we land, I'm not going to be pushy. I'm not going to ask for your credit card or whatever the case is. But yeah, I think that's it's a really great way to put it because then if you've kept them talking in the right direction with the right questions and you then get to the point of how does this sound, what's the next step forward? And then they ask the cost question. Now it's moved from in their mind a cost to an investment.

And that's a big shift. Absolutely right. And you know, with no value and no impact, even if you answered 50 bucks, that's 50 bucks too much, whereas people are happy to spend $50,000 to solve a million dollar problem. Yeah. But yet you didn't realize, and maybe they didn't even realize how vast their problem is or their opportunity is. And so it gets down to asking the right question, finding out the full breadth of what you

can do. Well, I think that is just so key. And I really appreciate you coming on talking about your new book. What's the best way someone can reach out, learn more, and pick up a copy of your book? So a couple of resources for folks that want to just grab the book right here right now. It's simply do it selling.com. That takes you right to the Amazon page for the book. And it's available, of course, in all the different formats, hard copy book, Kindle, audio, etc. We also have some free resources on our main website, which is DoIt Marketing. And do itmarketing.com forward slash manifesto is our free download, our do it marketing manifesto that has about, 37 pages of marketing and sales insights for entrepreneurs. And we also have some free web training online at do itmarketing.com slash webinar. So all of those are free. The book is available at do it selling.com. And there's some bonuses and some goodies that you get with that

as well. Well, David, thank you so much for coming on today. It was a real pleasure. Enjoy talking with you. So great to be here, Mike. Thank you. You've been listening to Influential Entrepreneurs with Mike Saunders. To learn more about the resources mentioned on today's show or listen to past episodes, visit www. www.influentialentrepreneursradio.com.