Business Innovators Radio - Interview with Jack Peregrim, Founder of Fourth Quarter Advisors Discussing Why Retirement Is Not What You Think

Episode Date: April 2, 2026

Jack Peregrim is the founder and President of Fourth Quarter Advisors and he has a long career in business and strategy including his 30 years as the founder and owner of PARAGON Development which focused on providing strategic management services to many Fortune 50 global corporations.On his ‘retirement’ he personally recognized the complexity in Social Security options as well as Medicare. And, there is very little support and education available other than that offered by individuals and organization driven by revenue received for selling products and services.Jack and others are trained and committed with Certified Financial Fiduciary® designations. And, we are volunteer presenters for workshops sponsored by a number of non-profits which are non-profit 501(C)3 organizations and support programs in a wide range of retirement issues.Jack is a Certified Financial Fiduciary ™ in addition to his involvement in numerous professional and personal organizations.Learn More: https://www.fourthquarteradvisors.com/Influential Entrepreneurs with Mike Saundershttps://businessinnovatorsradio.com/influential-entrepreneurs-with-mike-saunders/Source: https://businessinnovatorsradio.com/interview-with-jack-peregrim-founder-of-fourth-quarter-advisors-discussing-why-retirement-is-not-what-you-think

Welcome to influential entrepreneurs, bringing you interviews with elite business leaders and experts, sharing tips and strategies for elevating your business to the next level. Here's your host, Mike Saunders. Hello and welcome to this episode of Influential Entrepreneurs. This is Mike Saunders, the authority positioning coach. Today we have with us, Jack Perigam, who's the founder of fourth quarter advisors, and we'll be talking about why retirement is not what you think, the dangerous gap between expectation and reality. Jack, welcome to the program. Yeah, thank you.

Glad to be here. Hey, so I'm looking forward to talking to you because I know that so many times people have misperceptions. Maybe they read something online. They heard something on the radio. And when you use that word retirement, they feel like, you know, oh, that's coming down the road. Well, down the road comes pretty quick because time seems to fly.

But before we dive into that, give us a little bit of your story and background. And how did you get into the industry? Well, I actually retired myself about six years ago. And previous careers were doing the most recent was 28 years with my own business doing strategy for large corporations. And the strategy was in growth and new investments. So it was on change. It was on, all right, where do we grow beyond what we're doing? Where do we look at acquisitions?

Do we expand product lines? Do we look at new ones? And I realized that it's helped me look at retirement because, number one, you can't have expectations. When you're looking to set growth for the future, the future is change. Yeah. It does change. and an old adage that is relevant is that, you know, you got to shoot ahead of the duck. Yeah.

And that explains how corporations look at new products, new businesses. You got to shoot ahead of the duck. So where are things going to go? The better you understand that, the better you are making the right decisions and succeeding in the future. When I looked at my own retirement, I realized, all right, It should be simple. It should be simple, clean, easy. It just means I stopped working one day.

I sell off my last business and I just don't have to have the responsibilities. And then I started looking at Social Security. I started looking at Medicare. The more I would read about it and get advice from people, the more confused I got because everyone had a different understanding of it. And some people's understanding was very personal to them as a best, option, but it isn't for everybody, so that it didn't fit me. And then I started working with a nonprofit, and the nonprofit looking at it in an objective

way, not looking for compensations, no ulterior motives or objectives, and I realized this is what people need to understand and make the right decisions for themselves and their families. They need something that is objective. And I just, I just, you know, I just, you know, I've spent the last six years really researching and educating on best practices and things that we want to educate people on so that they are prepared for their retirement because it is different. You don't just stop what you're doing and everything changes. Your funds, retirement income changes. Your health care comes from a completely different way than you.

you were used to in your employment years and your best practices change. A source of funds, for instance, Social Security. There are, I'll get at that later, but there's 567 different variables that go into claiming your Social Security. Wow. I mean, who knows more than three? Who knew there were variables? Yeah, that's a great point.

You know, you don't know what you don't know until you start to be educated. and you said something interesting, you know, you just thought that it would just one day you would stop. And you say that there's a transition into retirement and that it's a lot harder than people expect. Key in on that concept, that mindset of transition because I think a lot of people get hung up on today I retired. I punched the clock, so to speak, for the last time, and now I'm retired and it's like black and white. But talk about that transition. Well, the issue is we don't even, our psychology is we don't even know there is a transition and it's more revolutionary than it is evolutionary.

Because there's nobody that really explains to us what the differences are that we need to change. We have spent our income years with the people we listen to our advisors managing our 401ks and maybe another advisor dealing with our other funds. We deal with, oh, we know somebody at the bank. We have Uncle Ernie, you know, who have we always listen to him. Well, they're not giving you the advice on what this change is going to be. And in many cases, our advisors, it is not in their best interest to do that. They don't want us to change anything, even though the best thing we can do,

is make the changes that make our retirement are successful as our income years work. And so we don't have anyone that's really explaining this to us. And because we don't expect anything, we don't look for the changes in what they need. And a lot of what we can do in the transition is get started earlier. I mean, an example, I had never had anyone that explained my tax issues and especially where I could have funds in Roth,

because my advisor didn't bother to do that, and my CPA didn't bother to do that. Wow. And when I asked them why, you get the, what I want to say, the pocket answer. The advisor says, oh, no, you never move money into RONTS. You keep it in the retirement accounts and just let it grow and the gross will grow. And as long as the gross grows, you'll always have enough money after taxes, you'll have more money. And that is not the case. Yeah.

That's completely wrong. But see, if I reduced my retirement accounts to put some in wroughts, I'd be taking money out that they're getting fees for. So I'd have less, they get less fees. I asked my CPA. This was interesting. I golf with the guy. I've known him for over 30 years as a friend. And when I asked him, I said, Tom,

how come you never explain wroughts and rough conversions to me and where I would have money that I would not be hit with taxes in my retirement? And I'd have tax-free income in my retirement. He said, it's not my job. I said, what do you mean it's not your job? You're my tax guy. He said, well, my job is that I do your taxes, Every year you throw your papers at me, and I know the best deductions and rules to apply this year.

I can see what's coming next year. I have never asked you, and no CPA ever asked you, what do you have in your retirement IRAs and 401Ks that will hit you with taxes in seven years? Because that's when you're going to be forced to take it out and it could push you to much higher tax levels. He said, nobody will ever ask you that. And it just blew me away because it's just, it's indicative of the fact that the people that we have in our lives today that have been providing the advice that's benefited us in our income years, they don't prepare us for the retirement years.

And the things that we need to do that's different. You know, you mentioned loss, like, you know, the employer helps you with your 401K. And I know what you meant there, but I know also that many 401 K management is just this cookie cutter, you know, is not really management at all whatsoever. So now when you get out, it's like, do you leave your money in there? Do you put it in something else? And that's where you need some help because you always had it managed by someone at the company.

So when you retire, where do you put the money, all of that kind of thing? And then also you say that another shift that happens when we're talking here about transition into retirement. you've got now healthcare concerns. And I think that, you know, potentially people don't really understand, you know, we can dive in deeper into health care decisions and things. But even just health care versus Medicare versus what do I do because I don't have the company plan anymore.

Talk a little bit about how health care and income are both shifting in sometimes different directions at the same time. Yeah, they do both shift. and I'll compare two of the major shifts, the first in health care. Medicare, that's pretty stable. It goes up in the cost that you'll have, but it's also complex in how it works. The rules of when you need to apply, how you need to apply. There are so many misconceptions on, I'll just give you one example on that is,

do you need to sign up for Medicare Part A if you're working and have credible coverage? the answer is no you don't and yet you would contact medicare or anybody teaching medicare and they'd say yes you're required to sign up at age 65 for part a even if you're working and the answer is no you don't so just so many misconceptions but in medicare then after you get medicare with our government it only covers 80% of medical services that are either in the hospital or outside of the hospital. Now, Medicare doesn't cover a lot of services. One number one, it doesn't cover drugs at all.

So you have to deal with drugs in a separate way. Medicare doesn't cover, oh, a lot of things that weren't around when Medicare was formed. Acupuncture, nature pads, chiropractic, podiatry. There's just so many things that we use the service. services and want them, and they're not covered at all. So you have to cover, number one, the 20% of the cost it's not covered. You can imagine what 20% of a hospital or specialist is. And it just works completely different than our employer plan. The employer. You know, I want to dive in really deep on Medicare and kind of almost do it like a master class with you, because I know you can

probably do a three-day seminar just on that. But touch real quick on the, the Medicare deadlines. So let's just kind of go from a 30,000 foot view when when you move into retirement and you think, oh, now I don't have my employer plan. I could do Medicare whenever. What are those deadlines that people need to be aware of? Well, number one, once you lose employer coverage, either directly from your employer or sometimes you'll be covered under a spouse's employment, once you lose that and you're 65

or older, you're required to sign up for Medicare. If you go 90 days without any coverage because you didn't sign up for Medicare, you'll forever pay a higher amount for Medicare as long as you live. But it's not the payment. It's why would you have a lapse in your health care coverage? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you not run into deadlines because many times you don't have that much notice as to when you're going to lose your employment.

You plan to work to 68, you get the golden hen shake at 66. So you're not prepared. You know, you felt you would wait till closer to when you plan to retire. And it just completely changes in the rules because now you have two entities you need to deal with. You need to sign up for Medicare with the government. Then you need to deal with health insurance companies that are going to give you the coverage that you really do need to cover. the 20% not covered, plus the other things that aren't covered at all that you're going to require. And the insurance companies offered two completely different kinds of plans that have an amazing number of multitudes of options within them.

So it can be very confusing. And one of the recommendations that we make is you don't do what I did. You don't wait until the last minute. Figure it's going to be an easy segue. Get started into transition planning, the same with your finances. Get started before you're going to, somewhere five years before you're planning retirement. So you're prepared and you end up doing it on your radar. And do you realize what you're making some of these decisions that affect you the rest of your life and you're making the decision one time?

and it's going to affect everything the rest of your life. And yet, and there's no do-over in someone. You know, when you say the rest of your life, I think that people let that go in one or not the other because they think, oh, well, retirement, you know, I'm at the end of that rest of my life. But in reality, isn't it true that statistically these days, people are living longer than in the 40s or 50s? And now when you retire, you might have another 20, 30 years.

and that doesn't really sink into people. They just focus on the day of retirement. I'm retiring on this day and I need to have a bunch of money and who knows how much that bunch really accumulates to. But you need to make sure that money lasts that whole time. So talk a little bit about some of the biggest mistakes people are making in the first three to five years after they retire with respect to even that length of time they need the money to last.

Well, the biggest mistake they make. is based on ignorance. They don't see what is going to be their life in 10 years. And one of the things that we're focused on is having people be 10 years in the future and understand that and recognize that they can make decisions today that they would be in 10 years,

they would say, thank God I did that. Yeah. Because they know that the impact is going to be. be there. A man in mid-60s, most actuarial tables will say that their life expectancy is 81 to 85. And a woman's is 85 to 89. Now, those are actuarial tables that also include people that fall downstairs, get killed with in accidents. And so we can expect our bodies to live longer if things don't happen to us. And we're not even thinking of preparing for it. A lot of times people are, you know, their main focus is, well, the first two years I'm retired. I can't wait to travel to

Europe. I can't wait to have this vacation that I wasn't able to have while I'm working. I don't have to worry about answering phones. You know, your focus is too short term. It doesn't mean it shouldn't be short term, but it also needs to be long term. You know, I think that's a huge point and I think that it also relates into another topic you talk about, which is financial restructuring. So bring that to light with this thought in mind. You know, you think about, I don't understand all the things about a 401k and I've retired yesterday. So I guess I'm just going to roll it into something similar. So put it into some product with the same allocations. But in reality, those same allocations might have been fine in your 40s or 50s. But now that you're retired,

you might need to have a little bit of restructuring for safety. What does that look like just from a broad sense? Well, you can get almost any book at Amazon or Barnes & Noble and find that they're recommending that three quarters of your funds in retirement are without risk of loss. You can get, you have so much that is published by the financial services industry that says that even in your 50s, you should be 60-40 with 60% stocks and 40% bonds. And I doubt that any of our advisors are telling us this.

Because there's no advisory fees. They live on the advisory fees. And there's no advisory fees if you take your money from them and put it into CDs or treasuries or investment annulles. or just anything that is completely safe and protective, they don't get fees for that. They want you to continue on the way that you always have continued on because their mother's milk is the fees they're getting. And to be defensive of them,

they're not trained otherwise. They're in a world that says, okay, our business is investing people's money, as smart as we can for the maximum impact in growth as long as long as the key, as long as it is in stocks, mutual funds and financial products. Which benefits their back pocket? Yep. Their job is not to give you protection and safety.

And yet when you transition to retirement, transition in safety becomes a high priority, if not the highest priority. And nobody is telling us this and nobody is acting in our best interest on it. You know, when people say that, yes, well, my advisor is a fiduciary, well, you can say your fiduciary by watching a one-hour company video what it means to be a fiduciary. But if they were true fiduciaries, then you should have your money out of risk put into a treasury, put into,

and I don't mean their treasury funds so they get fees for, put into treasuries, put into insurance investments, put into banking investments. A true fiduciary would recommend that. I don't know if anyone that has an advisor

that's ever told them, we're looking at a very overvalued market, I think you should take you money out of it and put into CDs. Yeah. That has never occurred. I've met 2,000 people or couples from my workshops in the last six years. Not a single one has ever had an advisor that would recommend anything like that.

And when someone hears that, you know, let's talk about safety security. Let's talk about where to put your money where you can never lose it at all whatsoever to give you peace of mind. That stands out because they're not being told that by their advisor. or secondly, they're not hearing that, seeing that, reading that when they're doing things online. Because these days, you know, we've got those algorithms that if you click on one article, all of a sudden that shows you're interested in that type of thing. So you start seeing it.

So anything to do with retirement or investing, people start getting that in their new speeds or social feeds. They're not seeing what you just described there. So I think that's a huge point that people need to realize. And to your point earlier, that financial decisions that might feel optional, they're more dangerous because you missed a deadline or you're not looking long term. What are some of the other hidden risks that people are not understanding or seeing when they retire? Well, just one more to follow up on that financial aspect. Yes, you use the word peace of mind. And of course, there's peace of mind knowing that I could be on a beach or a golf course.

and I'm not worried about having to make financial moves because the market is fluctuating. That's peace of mind. But what changes in retirement is that in our income years, we are contributing to our retirement accounts. In our retirement years, we're going to draw down on the retirement accounts. And with our required minimum distributions, our government forces us to draw down on them. So if there are any losses at all, we do not recover from them like we did in our income years. 2009, I lost 35% of my funds that were in equities. 2000, but I'm living on the businesses I'm running.

So 2014, the money comes back. I'm back where I was and it's going upward. Now, if I draw down, or let's say there's a downturn of 20% in my funds, and so my $100 becomes $80, for my to recover just what I lost, to go from 80 to 100, it has to go 25%. Yep. You wait long enough. You lost. Yeah.

You wait long enough it does. But what if I draw down 5% a year? while I'm trying to recover. I never get back there. I'm better off keeping a higher base, and if people are good with spreadsheets, they can put any one of these scenarios and spread them out from 10 years, 15 years,

and I will not recover as I did in my income years, but the people that have our funds are never going to explain that to you because the worst thing, worst in drawing down or worse in losing 20%, I'm still getting fees if I'm your advisor on $80. The worst thing what happened is I don't get fees at all because I moved my money to something that didn't lose the $20.

Yeah. And from a logical standpoint, the person who might have taken it on the chin and lost 20% in their portfolio in their 50s, yeah, you realize you've got some time to have it come back. But if you're in your 70s and you realize that the actuarial tables are kind of not on your side because you're 75, 80, and now you don't have that runway to recoup. And I think that's a big thing that people, they have it seared in their mind that, oh, yeah, we just keep, you know, it'll come back. It'll come back.

Right. But you might not have the time for it to come back. So why, if you can help it at all, don't lose, you know, like Warren Buffett, it's, you know, rules of investing. You know, rule number one, don't lose money. Rule number two, refer back to rule number one. So if at all possible, where you can put your money in those safe accounts. Yeah, and the drawdown issue is a real key.

Because that is one thing that changes into retirement that we don't have in our income years. There are times in our income years. We draw it down to get our first house or to do, you know, different large things. But for the most part, we live on our income. and put savings aside for retirement. Retirement, we use those funds as we should because after 40 years of work, we should be able to. But the key is when we're drawing down,

we're never going to allow them to come back because they just can't come back while you're taking more out of the same time. Yeah, it's like a double whammy. You're taking money out and the market's falling. Well, and the trap people run into is that, they retire or they're in retirement transition and there could be some kind of losses or a downturn and what their funds are. Yeah.

And they don't recognize the problem until the money is lost. We're not proactive. We're reactive, which was okay in our income years because we have a self-correcting mechanism where the market will come back at some point. But in the retirement years, it doesn't come back the same way. People had money in 1999. They did not have that same amount in their account until 2013. Y2K dropped over 30%, 35, 38% in the mortgage bubble.

So what if you wanted to retire in 1999? Well, you wouldn't be able to retire. You wait until it comes back. work now another six years. It's 2005. You're about ready to retire and then it starts dropping again. You lose it again. Yep. So what should someone do five to ten years before retirement? Because there's always going to be those peaks and valleys, those bubbles like you talked about. What are some of the things and shifts that people should be doing before they retire to make that transition as solid and safe as possible?

I would say a couple things. Know where you need to be at retirement, which typically is two-thirds or three-quarters of your funds are protected and safe. Now, every point in time, our economies, our circumstances, some people have more than enough funds to retire with, even if they lost some, some don't have enough to retire. So everyone is different. But five years before, you need to look at how that transition will occur. It may be faster for some people where they can put 50% of those funds out of risk within a few months when they look at it. Others might want to transition it over three years. So everyone is different and their circumstances are different. But the bottom line is five years before, I want to know that I need three quarters of my funds.

out of risk when I retire. And the second point here is that, well, out of risk. Yeah, it could be in a mattress someplace. That's not acceptable. You need to understand that it not only has to be out of risk, but what does it need to do that's in your, you and your family's best interests. And that is where there's no education on this right now,

but it's understanding what your money needs to do that is in your best interests. And I give you an example, and that would be your retirement accounts. You know that the government is going to start drawing down on those accounts, forcing you, and it starts to about 4%. And the percentage keeps going up over many years. Well, if I have to take, if I have $100, I need to take out four, That leads me with $96. Now, I took out the floor and I paid my taxes on this pre-tax money.

Now, it leads me with 96 going into the next year. Now, the next year, I have to take a higher percent of this smaller number. And that means I'm going to get less income. And my money's going to drop down and keep going faster and faster. And I'm setting up my money to have less income every year and my money is going to decrease. Now, what if I have it in? I keep it in equities. And I take out my $4 and there's one year that it goes down 10%.

I'm looked with $86. The next year I get significantly less income. My money drops significantly. And now as I'm trying to recover it from the lower number, I'm forced to keep drawing 4% down and it just never gets back. So I'm setting up my money to have less income. every year in my retirement and my money is going to keep decreasing. What if I set that up safely, no risk of loss to earn 5%.

It's boring, but I can put in safe things and earn 5%. You know what's going to happen to that money? I'm going to have $100 and I'm going to take out $4. But I'm going to put back, I'm going to earn five. So the following year, I'm going to have $101. I'm going to take a higher percentage of that number, which means I'll have more income, a requirement of distribution income, and the next year, it's going to go up even higher. So it's going to keep going up.

My money keeps going up while I'm drawing down on it. And all I'm doing is I'm getting a boring amount of money, but I'm setting it up safely. So key is you want not only safety, but you need to be, you draw it. downs. If I look at Roths or after tax money, what does it need to earn? Well, what's my drawdown? Why don't have to take any drawdown? Yes, you do. Two and a half to three percent inflation. Target that. And if I'm not earning, say, four percent, four and a half percent, I'm actually losing money on that. And I meet so many people that their money, they're very happy with the fact that it's getting 1.6 percent in a high-yield savings account.

It's not acceptable. We want people to understand not only do they want to move things to safety, but it's in their family's best interest, understand what their money needs to do for them. This gives them a power they never had before, because now they have a power when they're offered advice from people to have a very clear criteria. Does this give me a net 5% completely safe? if the answer is no, then stop there. You don't need to listen anymore.

You can now target the things that are in your best interest in retirement. So it's that combination of safety and growth. And you can't escape them. Sometimes people think of safety is just being, you know, I have it in a checking account or a savings account or a money market fund. No, that's not the case. You want both safety and growth. And if you understand how your future is going to be in six years and 10 years, you're going to be required to start taking this stuff out,

you're going to have to start setting up the money anyway to earn that. So you now know what you need to do. That's what we're trying to educate people on. Yeah. And, you know, it really just wraps up the whole thought of what we've been talking about, the difference between expectation and reality. And one of the key ingredients to that is having clarity around it. So knowing where you want to be, knowing where you are now, knowing some of those solid,

safe strategies, and there are multiple, multiple options every step along the way. So you need that guide like what you guys are providing to your clients. So, Jack, this has been really eye-opening and powerful. If someone is listening to this thinking, guide me, show me some options, show me some some things that I need to understand to make sure that there's not a dangerous gap between expectation reality. What's the best way they can reach out and connect with you? They can reach me at my email, Jack, at 4th Quarter Advisors.com, and that's spelled out, F-L-U-R-T-H, Q-U-A-R-T-E-R, A-D-V-I-S-O-R-S-O-R-S-O-R-N. And I would take a call on my

cell phone, 203, 507, 3826. And there's a lot more information on our website, which is fourth quarter advisors.com. Jack, thank you so much for coming on. It's been a real pleasure chatting with you. Mike, may I add one thing? Sure. We've been talking about tangible things that change. People's funds, people's health care. But people are not made up of all these tangible things. And what happens is their priorities change. They're focused on legacy. They want to know how they can take care of their kids and their grandkids. And while they're working, they're focused on their jobs and taking care of themselves.

There's so many things that I would say are priority changes that need to be addressed. And they are supported through some of the financial and other decisions. and that's one of the things we do try to work with people and understand how are their priorities changing. Yeah. Anyway, thank you. It's not, it's a great point there, Jack. It's not just the actual strategies and tactics.

It's the why behind it. It's the driving force behind it. So when you get that right, then that plan comes together with purpose. So I think that's spectacular. Thank you so much, Jack. Appreciate you coming on. All right. You've been listening to influence.

Entrepreneurs with Mike Saunders. To learn more about the resources mentioned on today's show or listen to past episodes, visit www.com.