Business Innovators Radio - Interview with Jamie McKibbin System Design Strategist

Episode Date: September 7, 2023

Jamie McKibbin is a System Design Strategist who has been in the consulting industry for over 12 years. Jamie has a BS in Economics from the University of Pittsburgh. He’s co-founded 4 companies utilizing his experience in neural network mapping methodology. Jamie has worked with several Fortune 100 companies and exited his first business at the age of 31. He focuses on living by his core values of truth, honesty, hard work, and integrity to improve people’s lives wherever he goes. He is an avid traveler who enjoys health & fitness and giving back by supporting others to improve themselves in all forms.Learn more about Jamie’s companies and gain access to free resources: https://jamiemckibbin.com/Influential Entrepreneurs with Mike Saundershttps://businessinnovatorsradio.com/influential-entrepreneurs-with-mike-saunders/Source: https://businessinnovatorsradio.com/interview-with-jamie-mckibbin-system-design-strategist

Welcome to influential entrepreneurs, bringing you interviews with elite business leaders and experts, sharing tips and strategies for elevating your business to the next level. Here's your host, Mike Saunders. Hello and welcome to this episode of Influential Entrepreneurs. This is Mike Saunders, the authority positioning coach. Today we have with this Jamie McKibben, who's a system design strategist. Jamie, welcome to the program. Hey, Mike. Great to be on with you.

Hey, I'm excited to learn about what a system design strategist does because I like the sound of it. I'm very organized and I am very structured and I have SOPs and so I'm hoping that that's kind of where we're going to learn some nuggets of knowledge that way. But before we dive into that, give us a little bit of your story and your background and what is your entrepreneurial journey been like to this point in your career? Oh, absolutely. It's getting long in the tooth right now, it feels like. But it really goes back to really the first major job I had out of college. I was at a big major manufacturer. So they were serving clients like Walmart and targets. Our clients were, you know, Fortune 100.

But the company was pretty lean. So it was, you know, my boss. And then her boss's boss was the VP of sales. So it was very lean. I got a lot of exposure to just how a top level, you know, executive team is thinking in those like nine-figure companies. companies. What kinds of things are they looking at to make decisions and how do they treat clients? And it was kind of a really good mix of corporate professionalism with that entrepreneurial

startup, you know, agility. And so I learned a lot there. And I also learned a lot being in a kind of consulting role for those major companies that we served. I was on the sales team and we were helping them work together, working with their buyers to really figure out how they improve sales in their stores and in all types of manner. So I was working with our operations team, our buying team, product development team, our marketing team, and of course our sales team and others. So learning how to balance all the needs and wants of all those different people and all those different departments and really making an effective product.

That was my trading ground. That was the deep end that I learned how to swim in. And then later I used all of those skills and more in a consulting practice that my brother and some others started up. And also we started an e-commerce startup together. So that I learned a lot more about people management and especially like balancing those family dynamics when your brother is part of the company. And then all of that, you know, just the business skills, the people skills and everything has culminated today where we have a couple different companies that are actually focused on the study of people. and maybe we can go over to that more later. We have several different companies that I'm a co-founder of now.

Yeah, I love that background. And I do want to dive in deeper on what you're doing and how you're serving your clients. But the really neat thing is when you have that foundation of working with nine-figure businesses, it's like Jim Rohn said, success leaves clues. So when you can get indoctrinated that way from your early experience and then have those systems and processes in place, to go, this is how it should work. And then you can bring that down to the mid-size or small businesses. They get a huge win from that.

That's absolutely right. I mean, there's a reason that the big companies are big. If they stayed doing the same things, like this was a family company that I was in, right? So if they had stayed doing the same processes that they were doing, you know, 50 years ago, they would not have grown to be as big as they are. It does require systems and processes. Now, as you get bigger, you get a little bit more of your, and slow moving, which is why I so much valued this company that I was in, because like I said,

they were such a great mix between that entrepreneurial agility and they really supported people internally to have that kind of mindset, but then also, you know, big processes and professionalism of major companies. So what they were doing from what you just said there, there's a phrase called intreprenorialism. So it's being an entrepreneur in the confines and under the umbrella of a large company. And it sounds like that's what you were given that ability to do, which is wonderful. At what point in your career did you start thinking, you know, maybe I can be doing these things out on my own? And then you made the leap into entrepreneurialism yourself.

Yeah, absolutely. I'd say it was maybe about five years into there. I had moved up and around in the company and worked with a lot of different people. But I had just kind of a little bit of restlessness there. I was kind of ready to prove to myself that I could take these skills. You know, do it on my own. As much as I loved everybody there, there was the kind of mystique and awe of being an entrepreneur that I was always fascinated with. And so when my brother and a few other people were starting this consulting firm brand new, and they really needed somebody with, you know, my brain type, essentially. We'll get into that more again with the brain mapping things. But they really needed somebody like me. And it was just such a great opportunity for me because several of the people that were founding this consulting firm with him were experienced entrepreneurs. built and sold businesses and were operating other ones at the time. And so I just saw that as just a golden opportunity to apprentice directly under some of them. And one of them I still work with to

this day. He is still my mentor and my business partner. Neat. That is awesome. So you know, like in Shark Tank, you hear all the times the shark saying, you know, what's the problem that you're solving with this? Because it seems really unclear. So when you think about how you serve your clients, what is the problem you solve for them? And then what is your competitive advantage in the solution that you're bringing them? Yeah, absolutely. So I like to say that my main focus is on harmonizing people with the processes. So an efficient process may look really efficient on paper, the flowcharts vary straight and neat and everything like that. But when you bring the chaotic mix of a human being into the equation, it may not go as smoothly. So if you actually want to create

the most efficient, the most effective process to enhance the team productivity and make sure everybody is low stress and fulfilled, then you actually need to take into account both the people and the process. So what we do is we have an extremely accurate, predictive model of behavior. It's kind of like a cousin of personality profiling. A lot of people do rely on personality tests, and I think they're fun. They have some value, but they often have biases, and they often rely on self-surveying. There's just a lot of problems. I go into that, like how well does the average person truly know of themselves? And if you're just asking, hey, Mike, are you assertive or shy? And then you check off

assertive. And at the end, I say, Mike, you're assertive. How much value is gained in that? It's kind of reaffirming just a story that the person has. So we have a predictive model that does not rely on the person's self-knowledge, self-development. We ask a series of questions. And I won't go into the specific suburb, but suffice to say, we have a very predictive model. And so we can use that for business applications like hiring, team dynamics, or even like personal relationships. We've had mother and son recently go through a program. I've seen business partners and spouses go through it.

And they come out the other end, just truly understanding and appreciating themselves and that other person or their teams or their loved ones. And I've seen people, we're the most disparate people you can think of sometimes go through these training programs together. They would never be friends out in the world. And by the end, they're laughing and poking fun and they truly, truly understand and appreciate each other. And so that's a beautiful thing to see.

You know, sometimes that just takes being aware of what you want to accomplish and not being running 200 miles an hour. So how do you accomplish that with your clients? Because I think that that's a problem with businesses. You want to grow, grow, grow, and go, go, go. But you don't take time to do these things and kind of be that human. And so what is your approach that way? Yeah, absolutely.

I think that's exactly right. So after we've assessed somebody like that, we'll put them through usually a multi-day training if we can get them to spare the time and just go really deep into the different, we call them brain nodes or neural network nodes in our systems. We have over 20 of those right now. And it's almost like if you think of like DISC or Myers-Brigg,

they have little letters. They just try to box you all up into that one category as a whole person. We do, I can say 20 to 25 of those in a small way. So we get a lot more granular, but it's a lot more effective. And so if we can get enough time to teach people about where they are on these spectrums, what it means to be talking to someone who's to the left of them or to the right of them or the way that it morphs into personally, depending on where people are on here,

they just start to really understand what's happening in reality. And so we have so many projections like, he's always doing this. Well, she's always doing that. He's stubborn. She's too sensitive. All of these stories, these projections just melt away. And so when you actually understand what's really happening between you and the other person and what's really happening for you internally and why you've always wanted to use that CRM and now you're on your fourth one and you just can't seem to make yourself do it. What's really going on there? And maybe there's a different process that needs to happen to fit you the person instead of you trying to fit yourself into a process. I love it. Can you think of a case study example of someone that you've worked with that was struggling with a certain thing? You implemented your process and then here were the results that they found.

Yeah, absolutely. One of our clients, we did their whole executive team, and they just had a lot of kind of blame game and dysfunction going on. And after we were able to tackle this with their executive team, they started to reorganize and really take advantage of, okay, When should we pull this person in? When should we really take advantage of this other person? So just as an example, specifically, they had a team that was very like, we can do it.

Let's go get them. We don't want any negative energy in the room. No, you can't say can't, that type of attitude, which is great in all, except the people who are cautionary and pointing things out that are going to go wrong are actually pretty useful. And so it turns out when you shunt them to the side over and over, maybe you keep running off cliffs in your company, right? that should be obvious.

You just fall under the pothole. That's right there. And so they really started to take advantage of the people in their company who had they had left and started to actually look for more to bring on that had this kind of like cautionary approach. And maybe inaction isn't the way either. So that would be the kind of kryptonite, as we call it, of the people who are overly cautionary.

But bringing in that balance and that mix and again, appreciating and then utilizing the superpowers of that like cautionary type person, which previously they had just been shunting and throwing out. Yeah, I love it. You know, like you said, your proving ground and your proof of concept was working with the bigger firm, and then you broke out on your own. Certainly, you don't have the hockey stick results straight up of success, no issues, no problem. So talk a little bit about some failures and breakdowns that you've experienced both personally

and professionally so far in your career. And I say so far because we will always experience them. But what are some of those insights that you can share? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I still fail every day, right? Big and small, that's how you learn. That's how you grow. If you're paying attention, if you have that mindset, I'd say my personally, my major failure in life in the past was not taking action or just avoiding situations out of fear and anxiety. I had crippling social anxiety growing up, and so I'm not blaming myself for that type of thing, but I knew what I had to do to overcome it and not let it control me. And I put that off for way too long because it was hard. It's very hard. And I feel for people who still suffer with that. But I knew it was going to be worthwhile on the other end. And here I am well on the other end. And I wish I had done it earlier. But that's okay. But that was a big personal failure for me. Just like taking, not taking action when I knew that I

should. And that comes in many different forms too. It's not just with, you know, if you have anxiety. Today, I think I have a much more can-do mindset about it. If I don't know how, I'll figure it out. It will be okay, that type of thing instead of doing nothing. So that's for me has been the biggest thing that I've overcome. It affects personal and business. You know, it really does. Isn't it true that your personal side of things affects your business

and your business side of things affects personally? They go handed hand. Yeah. I mean, we are one person. And so when we leave the office and we come home and we can't always leave everything separate and, you know, our mindsets are, I think, cross over big time. Like that is one thing I fostered for myself, different values and different beliefs that I think really propel me to success now as opposed to hold me back.

You know, that's really true. And when we approach these things, these hurdles or roadblocks, it takes that grit, that internal determination. talk a little bit about how faith plays a role in you having overcome these and will continue to overcome challenges and things in your life. Oh, yeah. I mean, there was once upon a time when I was not, you know, I didn't have any spiritual practice. I kind of wasn't an atheist, but I also wasn't, I just wasn't mindful of it. It just kind of ignored this part of my life. Fast forward to now. And I'm much more cognizant that I'm not just the organic body that I see in the mirror or the thoughts. in my head. I'm actually like an infinite soul with incredible potential. And I find that puts things in perspective. Like I'm here to learn, I'm here to grow, and challenges are meant to be overcome. And whatever rock bottom that I'm currently experiencing is only temporary and I'll find

my way back up. And I'm not just this organic being that like has these earthly limitations and whatever. I am actually a much grander, greater spiritual being. Um, And so that is, it just puts it in perspective, right? How hard can your problems really be long term if you, if you believe that? Yes, you got it. So think back to some of those breakdowns. What specifically about them when you were beginning to overcome them

and then you came out on the other side? How did that lead you to even more success in your business? Yeah. Well, delve tailing right back to that social anxiety aspect. That led to my success almost directly right now because I was, obsessed later with, okay, how do I work? How do other people work? Like, I want to fit in. I want to be comfortable in these social situations. So what are people's motivations? Their validation strategies, their fulfillment, their drives. How do they work? And how do I work? Because I felt like

my brain was attacking me or my brain was just not cooperating. And so I really needed to go deep into how people function, psychology, all of that. And so that is a, a crux and a cornerstone of our companies now. And it was a big part of me learning to manage people and manage teams and just be a productive member of a team. And so, but yeah, just that obsession with like,

how do people work that has directly led to where I am now, what we do at my company at Bali. Well, and it's interesting that you took a personal, professional kind of internal, uh, challenge worked through it, noticed and were aware of,

of lessons and then not only just thought, oh, that's good for me. And if I ever handled or come through that again, I know how to handle it. But now you're saying if I had this challenge, other people do too. Let me put this into my work with my clients. Now you've got that ripple effect. That's exactly right. I love to think about that ripple effect. And there's a lot of mindsets and beliefs that I like to help some of my just personal

mentees and clients foster. And so, you know, I can go to some specifics maybe later. It's worth it. But suffice to say, like, when you truly understand yourself, then you can foster empowering beliefs about yourself. So it's not that, like, why aren't I like Jim over there? He's so charismatic. Or why aren't I like him?

He just can do anything. Like, you can do anything, too. And but your superpowers may come in a little bit different flavor. Maybe you're not Superman. You could fly, but you could be, you know, Green Lantern. And he's got a different approach to things. And he's still amazing. And so just fostering that acceptance and that appreciation.

And then you can do anything with that. Well, if everybody was like Jim or whoever, then we'd all be clones and that would not be fun. So that's a great point. We all have our own superpowers and they all can compliment each other. I think that's a huge revelation. Absolutely. I mean, even in economics, right, the idea of specialization. And we need doctors.

We need people. We need people who are physicists. We need architects. We need people who are specialized and good at different things. And that's not just about skills and knowledge that's like a different profession. That's just about how people work too. Yes. So think back at the beginning of your career to now both personally and professionally.

Would you do anything differently if you could go back and change anything? Yeah, absolutely. I would trust myself more. I would whisper in my ear, take it until you make a kid. You've got the talent. You've got the drive. The skills will come with time. there's no better time than now.

I would just want to drill that into my head because failing is going to be part of the journey. It's natural. It's to be expected. Learning is the point. And so failure in the sense is the point. Of course, you want to succeed the first time if you can,

but given that failure is almost inevitable, then really what are you doing something for? It's always to learn no matter what. You don't learn from even your successes. And so I think decisions made out of fear to not do something or to avoid, something, those are the only things I regret today. I think I would just say, go for it, try it. The worst that happens is you'll learn, especially the young man, right? Yep. Awesome. So let's get back to

your comment about the mentees that you work with, whether they're actual mentees and you're the mentor or you're working with clients. But the point is, what are some of those key attributes that they need to understand and manage and implement their life so that they are prepared to hit and work through those challenges, both personally and professionally. Yeah, absolutely. So no matter what issue or situation, you're going to be in an interface in the future, you are the only constant. You are always the most important part of that situation. So I teach them that they need to make a solid foundation mentally internally for themselves, spiritually, if they're open to it. But just having rock solid beliefs, mindsets, and values.

So I think my top two that I like to inculcate and people are one, ownership and two is gratitude. So ownership, I think it's just one of the most empowering values and mindsets you can have because if you control your own destiny, you're not the victim. If you could always do something better, you can always learn. You can always improve your situation. And I think there's a, if people have a victim mindset, it's just this like the suffering, this depression, this like, what can I do? but if you take an ownership mentality, you can always do something. And so not to say that like, I mean, you know, stuff happens, right? Like, you can't prevent everything. But just having that kind of algorithm running in your brain about like,

well, what could I do better? What could I have done differently? How can I improve? That's going to rapidly improve you as a person professionally and personally. And then I think people respect you more. And you respect yourself more because you sound and feel more worthy of responsibility. If you own your mistakes, you own what it takes to get to success, people will pick up on that and you will feel that internally.

So that's number one. Number two is just gratitude. I think it's one of the keys to success. And really because it's key to happiness. Anytime, like, something feels unfair, you're stuck or something didn't turn out the way you wanted. Like, let that be a trigger for gratitude. Like, what are you grateful for?

And just recognizing that, like, hey, if you're hearing my. voice now, like, quite literally you, the listener, or if you're reading this, like, there are literally billions of people on this planet right now who would gladly trade places with you. Yeah. I mean, trading places with you would be an answer to all of their prayers. And so just recognizing that and being grateful for what you do have because it's a lot more than other people have and whatever your challenges or struggles are right now, like, you're going to overcome them, they're going to pass, and there's still so much to be

grateful for. So those are the two things that I always recommend. I love it. Owning your own mistakes and having gratitude. Let's drill in just a teeny bit deeper on each of those. So if you were to be talking with someone and teaching them about owning their mistakes, what are a couple practical things tactically that they can do once they've made the realization, okay, I need to own my mistakes.

What does that? What do they do once they do that? What does that mean that they can then do? Yeah. Some people, like if they have trouble thinking about that, We actually have a worksheet that we give people. So let's say they just told a story to me and they said, well, this person did this to me and this person did that. And then this thing happened out of my control.

Like, we'll actually make them rewrite what they just said only from an I did this. I did this. I could have done just a full ownership lens. And so that can be really hard for people if they've never taken that approach. But if it's right there in writing in front of you, we don't even have to show it to us, you know. but like that is a way that we can shift them over time and at least start exercising the muscle that is ownership. It will come easier over time.

And I think that, you know, we had that with a client actually recently. And he described it as like a feeling of just like a weight lifted off because he had told a story and it was very much all these people did all these things to him. And at the end of it, he was like, oh, I feel so much better. Like I was like, yeah, because you're an agent in your own story. You control your destiny. right? And so, and did you not have a part in it? And so when you start recognizing that, because there's truth, there's power and truth. And we always play a part in our own story.

So just recognizing that and speaking truth. It's powerful. Yes, love it. What's a, what's a couple of the tactics you recommend regarding gratitude? Because we need to realize there are billions of people that are wishing they had our lives. But how do you keep that attitude going throughout the days and weeks and months? Yeah, that I honestly recommend people either do it in the morning or in the evening. Just make it a part of their routine. It will start coming more gradually too. All of these things to me are just like, you know, wearing new ruts in the mind,

creating new neural pathways. So starting it out as the definitive practice is just a way to start building a framework and an automatic process later for you. So I think if you need to, just put it on your calendar. Every morning when I make my coffee, as that's brewing and I'm feeling like I can't wait to have that. Like, what are you grateful for? Are you grateful for coffee?

Great. There's a good start. How about two more things. Really just starting that way. There's other mindsets and practices. I think I usually recommend people to do as well. And it usually starts at that. Put it on your calendar.

Make a set time for it, reminder for yourself. And then over time, it will just happen more naturally. I love it. That's so amazing. Well, Jamie, thank you so much for coming on today. this has been really, really eye-opening. I want to hit just one last point, which I think is super, super important because we bring all of this together and all of the ways that you guide the people that you work with and

in your business personally and professionally. Think about your journey and your entrepreneurial journey to this point. What do you say your why is? I think a lot of times people go, oh, my purpose, my goal in life is, but underneath that is the why that really drives it. Yeah, that is a great question. I've thought about it often, especially as I became more spiritual again. For me, it's about just improving people's lives and just leaving behind a legacy and a better world. So you mentioned ripples before. That's funny because that's how I describe it. I like to imagine just the ripples in space time emanating out from all of us, like our actions, our inactions. And so what kind of effect am I having with my ripples? I think there's like a little. an idea from like a commercial or a movie where it's like somebody smiles right and then the next person smiles and there's just kind of this like this wave of smiling and people doing good things like

that's real you can actually start things like that maybe you're not going to see all the effects like you know like the commercial or the movie would show but if you can imagine that like I feel that like I imagine I actually I'm grateful for that feeling and I'm grateful for other people who start doing that and I'm on the receiving end of that wave so we can all do that. we can all be both the recipients and the origin of a better world. And it starts with our actions. So that's my why. And if God in the universe decide to reward me for that, I'll gratefully accept that too.

Awesome. Well, Jamie, thank you so much for coming on today. It's been a real pleasure talking with you. What's the best way people can reach out and connect with you? Yeah, it's been a real pleasure, Mike. My website is jamie macbibbon.com. That is the best way to find me and my businesses and all the resources that we have. there.

Awesome. Thanks so much, Jamie. You've been listening to Influential Entrepreneurs with Mike Saunders. To learn more about the resources mentioned on today's show or listen to past episodes, visit www. www. www. influential entrepreneursradio.com.