Business Innovators Radio - Interview with Jennifer Surmacz Founder of Posterity Legal Discussing NextGen Estate Planning Software

Episode Date: August 14, 2024

Jennifer Surmacz is passionate about helping clients understand the legal intricacies of estate planning. She translates complex legal concepts into easy-to-understand options for each client based on their unique circumstances.Jennifer was born into a military family and lived in several states before settling in Oklahoma. She graduated from Mustang High School as Valedictorian and a National Merit Scholar. Jennifer earned a Bachelor of Arts in Political Science and a Minor of Arts in Sociology from the University of Oklahoma. She earned her Juris Doctor at Oklahoma City University School of Law.Jennifer is licensed to practice law in Missouri, Oklahoma, Nevada, and the Federal District of Maryland. She has experience in Estate Planning, Probate, Contracts, Family law, Federal Civil litigation, and ERISA Federal Class Action litigation. Jennifer also served as a Special Public Defender for Juveniles in Canadian County, Oklahoma and St. Louis and St. Charles counties in Missouri.Jennifer served terms as 10th Circuit Lieutenant Governor of the American Bar Association LSD, and Vice President of Women’s Law Student Association. She is a member of the American Bar Association, the Phi Alpha Delta legal fraternity, the Oklahoma Association of Justice, the National Association of Professional Women, Lawyers Fighting Hunger, and Gene Slay’s Boys and Girls Club. Jennifer is also a black belt and national champion in Tae Kwon Do.Learn More: https://www.posteritylegal.com/THE CHOICE OF A LAWYER IS AN IMPORTANT DECISION AND SHOULD NOT BE BASED SOLELY UPON ADVERTISEMENTS.Influential Entrepreneurs with Mike Saundershttps://businessinnovatorsradio.com/influential-entrepreneurs-with-mike-saunders/Source: https://businessinnovatorsradio.com/interview-with-jennifer-surmacz-founder-of-posterity-legal-discussing-nextgen-estate-planning-software

Hello and welcome to this episode of influential entrepreneurs. This is Mike Saunders, the authority positioning coach. Today we have back with us, Jennifer Sermak, who's the founder of Posterity Legal, and we'll be talking about relationship generational wealth. Jennifer, welcome back to the program. All right. Thank you for having me. Hey, so I know we want to talk about this.

This is a really big topic, you know, generational wealth, because this is not just, you know, what you are dealing with today. This is looking far into the future and planning. And I know we've talked before about estate and estate planning and how to avoid probate and all of the things that wraps up to this. But this next step really draws us into this concept of generational wealth. So first let's start up with what is the actual definition of generational wealth? And why is that so important? Yeah.

So generational wealth is a concept. You know, most of us work really hard during our lifetimes. Yes for ourselves, but more for our children and our grandchildren, right? We want our children and our grandchildren to have a better life than we did. And so that's the overarching concept of generational wealth is how do I work so hard while I'm alive to not just set myself up for success, but to set up my children, my grandchildren, everybody that comes after me with this success, to put them in a better position than when I started out. And so with private estates and trust, one of our main goals is, yes, to keep you out of probate.

And if you listen to the previous interview, that is the horrors of probate and the government and how the government's just sitting there chomping at the bit to take away, you know, at least 10%, 10, sometimes a third of your estate. How do we use private estates and trust to manipulate what your Easter egg, your egg, your nest egg, that you have sat on and built and accumulated this great life? How do we preserve it for our kids and our grandkids and our great grandkids? That's what private estate planning really gets into the meat. Yes, it's to make sure people don't go through probate, but then also to legally structure yourself

so that you're passing down a legacy, okay, so that you're protecting, you're protecting your assets, and then you're making a legacy that continues on well after your back. You're protecting it and then you're passing it on. And it's kind of like when a financial advisor talks to a client says, let's plan for retirement. I think a lot of times people in their mind think about just help me to get to retirement. Let me have X number of dollars right at this moment in time. But in reality, you've got to get to and through retirement. So it's really similar to what you're talking about here.

You need to amass a certain amount of money, wealth for retirement. But then guess what? If you've done a really good job and you get to the point where you are now at the end of retirement, you could and should have a lot of money left over because your advisor, did a great job and you're at the end of your life and you want to plan for that moment when you didn't need all of that money, where does it go? And then that's the generational wealth. That's awesome. That's exactly right. Yes. So we do also provide like a financial wellness kind of check as we're going through this private estate planning because most of my clients are

either nearing retirement or in retirement. Okay, now that you've made this nest egg, how do we protect it and how do we even sometimes can multiply it so that by the time you pass away, you're actually giving your kids and grandkids, not just wealth, but there are also ways you can do this to get the tax man out of your back pocket too. Well, out of your back pocket on the front end, you know, so that you personally are benefiting, but then also the gift and part of that legacy is helping the future, you know, who your money goes too, your family not have to deal with as much of the taxes as well. And I know that's a whole different topic, but that's super important.

And don't you think it's very similar to what you were talking about previously in our previous conversation, if you just start thinking ahead, you can prevent so many other problems. Well, if you start thinking ahead about this generational wealth, you can help reduce and mitigate taxes on the front end now and as it passes to your heirs. But the thing that strikes me is, isn't this like a, wonderful gift that the person that's putting it together for their family, their heirs, is putting into place so that when they are no longer with them, it now passes easily, quicker, faster, more of it going to them, less than taxes.

It becomes like a really powerful gift, not just some numbers on a piece of paper. That's absolutely right. We'd like to call it a loving legacy because it is the best gift that you can give, your family that is left behind. And, you know, it encompasses so much here. But frankly, being able to, the difference between seeing a family go through probate versus a private estate is night and day, right? When you're going through the probate process and there's all this lawyers in court and

turmoil and stress and all of this stuff, whereas if you just had a little pre-planning, you can come over to this private estate, avoid the, the, the, And then if you want a step further and did a little bit more planning, then your kids aren't having to deal with the IRS and income taxes and things like when they inherit IRAs, how it goes on to their income tax and they have to pay all the taxes of, you know, at that time and all that stuff. So it's just about planning and giving them the gift of, first of all, you're giving yourself a gift a piece of mind, right, that it's all handled and taken care of. Yeah. Also giving your family the gift of grieving, right? Because when you pass away, we just want them to grieve. We don't want them to have to deal with the court and taxes and then fighting and stress

and all of that toxicity that comes along with not planning, right? So really, that is where the legacy gift, the loving legacy comes in is, look, I did some planning for you guys and you don't have to go through this terrible process. Oh, and by the way, we fixed all of these other things so that when we're, we do have these monies or these properties transfer over to you, you can just sit back and, you know, have a celebration of life about me, right? I think that's the ultimate gift there, yes. 100%. So what do you think now when we start shifting gears thinking, okay, we see that this is a good thing. Let's work toward it. What are some of the broad key objectives that people typically

have when they start beginning that process? Because you've got to start somewhere. So what are the, what are they aiming for? Well, the first big step. is to draft the legal documents to get your estate into a private structure, right? So we function, that's the first thing we got to do, okay, is we've got to get you out of that probate court. Now, once we've created your private legal structures and all of your assets are correctly placed in there through that process called funding that I previously talked about, now let's start looking at your assets here and seeing what we can do.

you know, one of my favorite things to do is to structure people. You know, when you're in retirement, let's say you had a 401k or traditional IRA, you have another beneficiary there. It's your biggest beneficiary. It's the taxman, right? That was the deal you made with the taxman here. I'm going to put this money in here for retirement. We're going to allow it to grow. And taxman, you don't get to get any of that money until it gets distributed to me or my kids and my heirs or whatever. So when you pass away, if you just give those kind of funds outright to your kids, that is a taxable event, right? And some of it is like 30%, depending on what it is. So through these private legal structures, we can actually structure people so that they're not getting hit with the taxman. And in so doing,

sometimes there is a way to actually, not sometimes, most of the time I can structure it so that you're not actually outliving your retirement. You've already paid the taxes on it. And then we can make your retirement grow tax-free so that we're thinking in the future, if you happen to live to a 102 years old, you're not going to run out of money, right? So a private estate can do all of these things, actually. It's not just avoiding the probate court. It's also structuring you so that you're paying off the tax man while you're alive. You're letting your money grow so that you're not outliving your retirement. And then hopefully, we've got some left over to give to your children tax-free. 100%. I think that's a huge thing to keep in mind because if that is an objective and you can quantify that with dollars and cents, it's kind of like, you know, oh, what if a meteor hits the earth? Well, there's probably really remote chance that's going to happen, but there's 100% chance that, you know, wealth is going to get taxed. And if you can mitigate that now and after it passes, that's a huge objective. So what are some of the strategies that you work with your clients or bring your team in to work with your clients for a

kind of hitting those objectives. Well, and so for that, it's always a case-by-case basis, right? So we always evaluate our clients based off of what their current assets. We like to focus on what the client wants. You know, here's the other thing that's different between us and other houses that kind of do these things is we're fiduciaries, okay? And so we must do what's in the client's interest. regardless of whether it hurts us or we make money off of it. Yeah.

Okay? Where I have a big problem with some of these advisors that are taking like an 80-year-old grandma and they're still putting her money in the stock market, you know, whether they lose her 20 points or whatever, they still get their fees, right? Maybe that was not the best strategy for that grandma because now she's out the money, but that broker still going to make their fees. Whereas with our system and our strategies here, we're fiduciaries. If it is not in your best interest, we're not going to do it, even if it costs me money.

Even if I take a hit, even if I don't make money off of it, I still have to do what's best for you. And I like how you said it's case by case because it really is, but I know that the dark side of the industry is I'm going to put people on this because it benefits me. And it's not, you know, yeah, it's case by case, but in this case, take this. And I think that that's where a lot of the, you know, the unscrupulous advisors come in. So I know that, you know, should everyone get an annuity? No. Should everyone get a life insurance policy that has cash value? No.

But in the right cases. And I know that you would sit down and maybe run even software and go, here's what it would look like if you did it this way. And then here's option two. And here's option three. Let's talk through each one and answer some questions. And kind of like a waiter, you know, you place the order now that you understand it, what do you feel comfortable with? That's exactly right. That's how I approach all of it. I do give people multiple different options and we explain all of the structures and how this works, how that works. And frankly, it's always the client's decision. See, I'm not of the theory that we are going to shove a square peg into a round hole just because I'm going to make more commissions off of it. That's not how we do this. It is the client's money. It is their decision. Here's the options that we think would work best for you. What do you think? Go home, think about it and come back to me. And if you're,

You want to move forward with option A instead of option C, then so be it. And you know, I know we're talking about probate and trust and avoiding and all of these things and estate planning. This is not something you do while your loved one is on the deathbed. This is something you need to do well, well, well ahead so that you've got plenty of runway to put these things into place and set this up and fund that and put this thing in place. So talk a little bit about what's a, you know, prefer. time frame to make sure that all of the possible options are able to be fully accessed. Well, the right time frame is now. Okay.

Most people put off this kind of stuff. They know they need to get it done. They need a will, they think, or maybe a trust. And they'll put it off for 30, 40 years. And then, you know, come to me. I've actually had several times where people will come to me. We have a consultation. And then the next thing I know a couple weeks later, their kids calling me, oh, my gosh,

they got into a car accident and now they've passed away. What do I do? And at that point, it's too late. Okay? You know, the thing about it is the day you have a heart attack was just like every other day, right? You woke up, you put your pants on and all of this stuff, never, ever imagining that something is going to happen. I like to use the example of getting pushed in a pool, okay?

You're going to get pushed in the pool. It is not an if, it's a win. Okay. And so if you're actually thinking about this stuff, let's get you a life preserver before you get pushed in the pool, right? So I am of the principle that anybody who has titled property or signature property or has minor children. See, this isn't just for people who are like 50 plus even. People who are in their 30s and 40s who have minor children, you need to make a private estate plan too because you've got little ones under 18 that we need to take care. up, right? So don't put it off. You know, this isn't like we're, you know, looking for the best

deal at a appliance shop for refrigerators, right? You know, this isn't what this is you, your body, your life, your estate, your legacy, and then your family. So the best time is right now. Don't put it off any longer because it does take time to do these things. Now, with my system, we can get it done very pretty quickly, okay, you know, at least the private estate planning structuring part of it and the legal drafting part of it, we can get that done very quickly. Just get it done. I know it seems like this big undertaking, but how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.

One bite at a time. And we've set it up in a way that walks you through the process so that it's one bite at a time so you're not so overwhelmed. The time to get it done is now. Don't wait, okay, until the inevitable happens because once it happens, once you're push in the pool or, or I like to say, once you knock the vase off of the table and it shatters into a million pieces, you can't come to me and expect me to be able to fix it. Yep.

Exactly. So let's wrap up with the thought of, you mentioned trust a few times, and we don't want to get into the weeds of, you know, what, you know, because there's many different types, but talk a little bit from a broad perspective, how a typical family, not someone that's a CEO of a company with trillions of dollars, but how a typical family should view. and implement trusts. Yeah, so I think every American that owns titled signature property needs something called a revocable living trust.

That's basically the default private estate that everybody that owns property needs. Okay. Now, there are other different types of trust. There are subtrusts that I can make for this, you know, this, that, and the other. But everybody needs a private estate. And the default private estate structure is called a revocable living trust. Sometimes you'll hear it called a loving trust or a living trust or a revocable, you know, people come up with their own definitions, but legally, that's what everybody needs to start out with. That's where we start all of our client.

All right, here's your basic legal structure. The RLT is what we like to call it, revocable living trust. And let's at least get this structure completed. And then if we want to go into more high-level planning with irrevocables or Medicaid qualifying or asset sheltering or, you know, all these other generational. payment trust and all of that kind of stuff we can. But everybody I think in America that owns property needs a revocable living trust as their default. Yep, at least that. And then remember, like we've said, before, you got to put the stuff into it. You can't just have the safe. So you got to put the stuff into it. So that's great. But yeah, I mean, you got to start somewhere. And then when you get your,

you know, get your momentum going, then you can add to it. Or maybe if your life circumstances changes. So, you know, maybe let's wrap up with this thought. Do you just check the boxes and go, I set this up and did this and then you never need to look at that estate plan again. Shouldn't you be reviewing it once in a while? Absolutely. And that's why it's called a revocable living trust is because the word revocable means that you can revoke it or destroy it if you wanted to. And so the legal principle that flows from that means, well, if I can destroy this thing, I can certainly change it. Right. And so RLT allows you to change your trust as needed, as many times as you need, all the way up to the day you die or become incapacitated, which that is the whole point of it, is your life situation is going to change.

You might buy a new property, maybe a new grandbaby is born, all of this stuff. Well, you should have easy access to this legal structure to be able to make those changes. I like to do annual reviews, but certainly if you have a life event happen, yeah, we need to change your trust. That's the whole point of an RLT is to be. be able to do that. 100%. Well, I think that just makes so much sense. And I think this has been really, really eye-opening and helpful looking at and talking through generational wealth. So if someone is interested in learning a little bit more, maybe reaching out connecting with you, what's the best

way that they can do that, Jennifer? Yeah, sure. You can look me up. I'm at PosterityLegal.com. That's P-O-S-T-E-R-I-T-Y-Legal.com. If you visit my website, there's a contact form. You can email us through. That'll go straight to my assistant. Or you can give us a call. Our phone number, toll-free, 833-39-8-8585. That's 833-3-39-9-8-585. Give us a call. Shoot us an email. We'd love to help you. Excellent. Well, thank you so much for coming back on. It's been a real pleasure talking with you. Thank you for having me.