Business Innovators Radio - Interview with Liam Thurman, Author of The Closer’s Edge

Episode Date: October 7, 2024

https://businessinnovatorsradio.com/interview-with-liam-thurman-author-of-the-closers-edgeWilliam (Liam) Thurman II, fondly known as America’s Financial Coach, has revolutionized the field of financial consulting and coaching for over thirty years. His journey is marked by relentless achievement and unwavering dedication. As a top producer and the CEO of Legacy Consultants LLC, Liam has consistently driven success, establishing himself as a leading figure in the industry.Liam’s expertise extends beyond the boardroom. As an international and national speaker, he has inspired countless individuals with his compelling insights and strategies. His literary contributions, including the renowned “Babe Ruth Bucket” series and “The Closer’s Edge,” a part of the Exception to the Rule Series, offer invaluable wisdom for financial planning and sales mastery.In 1991, Liam founded the Making the Difference (MTD) Foundation, an international outreach program committed to making a positive impact in the lives of young people both in the United States and around the world. This foundation underscores his dedication to fostering change and supporting communities globally.Despite retiring in 2016, Liam’s influence endures as he continues to coach and train over 7,500 financial agents weekly. His collaborations with top leaders in the coaching and speaking communities highlight his ongoing dedication to promoting growth, excellence, and resilience.Liam’s personal life is as blessed and fulfilling as his professional one. Happily married to Angela Thurman, they share a blended family of nine children and sixteen grandchildren. Liam’s legacy is a testament to his dedication not only to his career but also to his family and community.Now, Liam wants to share his blueprint for success with you. Through his books and coaching, you’ll gain education and motivational strategies that will elevate your professional and personal life. He will guide you to define your goals, develop a strong sense of purpose, and embrace the sacrifices necessary for continual excellence. With Liam by your side, you’ll discover the courage to achieve never-ending triumphs and make a lasting difference in the world.Explore Liam’s books, courses and additional resources today and join him in making a difference in the world of finance and beyond. Connect with him through his website, social media profiles, or join his mailing list to stay updated on his latest insights and endeavors. Embrace the opportunity to learn from a true industry leader and be inspired by his journey and commitment to excellence.Learn More: http://mastertheclosersedge.com/bookInfluential Entrepreneurs with Mike Saundershttps://businessinnovatorsradio.com/influential-entrepreneurs-with-mike-saunders/Source: https://businessinnovatorsradio.com/interview-with-liam-thurman-author-of-the-closers-edge

Welcome to influential entrepreneurs, bringing you interviews with elite business leaders and experts, sharing tips and strategies for elevating your business to the next level. Here's your host, Mike Saunders. Hello and welcome to this episode of Influential Entrepreneurs. This is Mike Saunders, the authority positioning coach. Today we have with us Liam, who's the author of The Closers Edge. Liam, welcome to the program. Hey, Mike, thanks for having me. You are welcome. I'm excited to talk to you about your brand new book, The Closers Edge, because it's like we know in sales, ain't nothing happened to tell you a sale is made. So you got to close sales. So I want to hear all about your perspective on sales and closing. But before we dive into that, give us a little bit of your story and your background. And that leads us into then why you wrote the book.

I appreciate that. Simply, I started in the business way back in 1991. I was a young guy. I always make the joke. I think I was 23, 24. And I tell you, but I started out as everybody's grandson or actually, you know, that was the best way to go about it. Because I had to have any experience, you know, I just started. And so I had to take on that persona.

Then eventually I became everybody's son. And now I'm everybody's brother. So after 35 years, the transition of where I am and where I'm doing now. it's different. But I sold for a long time. I did, I did, I was selling everything at one time, you know, Medicare and life insurance and annuities and car insurance, you name it. We had it. And the objective was to have so many things available that there's no way you couldn't make a sale, you know, in that week. And then I had a young, a young man in time. And he said, you know, he said, you know, if you could focus on one thing, one direction, what would it be? And I said, well,

annuities and, you know, life insurance are my two favorite things. He said, you know, So, well, throw everything else away, just focus on that. And my income quadrupled overnight. And so I focused on one thing. I focused on what I wanted to do, what I enjoyed. I remember, I can't remember who the person was that said it, but somebody once said that, you know, if you like what you're doing, you never work a day in your life.

And that's what I like about what I do, what I've done. I accumulated over 3,500 clients in a 25-year period. I wrote 365 clients a year for, I think, 10 straight years. We did, you know, I've done over 10 million in production, used to do about eight or 900,000 every week. When 2009 got here, I made some decisions to become a consultant, changed my career mindset a little bit, become an agency owner, not an FMO, but it's more like that. So I quit selling around then.

And then around 2016, you know, had some health issues and things. So I had to retire and make some different choices in my life. And we did that. And I have about, you know, I still do books. I still do training. I still do speaking. Matter of fact, I think we're speaking in Cincinnati here in a couple of weeks with a group. And then we've got some webinars and stuff that we do as well.

I also have a Babe Ruth Bucket system for agents that we do on our Facebook page. And people are welcome to join that. We have 7,500 agents in there. And then, of course, I do a lot of stuff with other groups and things like that. But the just of it is I'm still in the industry. I tell people, somebody asks me today, matter of fact, Mike, they said, you know, what do you do? I said, I do what I want when I want. So that's right. That's a great position to be in, my friend. And I know that when we talk about sales and

prospecting, it doesn't matter what industry that it is. There's some basic tenets and foundational principles that you need to understand about human psychology and the psychology of sales. So I'm excited to hear about what you've discovered. So at what point did you go, you know what? There's a book that needs to be written out here called The Closers Edge. and you jump right from, you know, like I said at the beginning, like closing is like that, that's the last thing. My personal opinion is it's really, if you wanted to put parentheses after the word closer's edge, it's really opener's edge because you're opening a relationship. It doesn't end with closing the sale.

But I know we have to close the sale. Why did you write the book? Well, I guess a better question would be is what's the sequel? Because the sequel is the prospect edge, right? And so people say, why didn't you write the prospect edge first? And I said, well, because the closer's edge, you could have a million appointments, Mike. And if you can't close, it's not going to do you any good. So, and I get it.

It's a fine line closing and prospecting. But closing is where you make your money, yes? Yeah. And so, you know, the reason why I wrote the book was because I guess the best way to answer that would be is, you know, I do so many lectures and I do a lot of webinars. and we do a lot of questions and answer. And I get it from both sides. I get it from brand new agents. I get it from a lot of the veteran agents, you know,

and, you know, what's the best closing technique? How much should I spend on Facebook? What should I do for ads? How much should I put in? What's about the old story where, you know, if you spend money, you make money? And I'm against that. I don't believe that's true. I think it's what you spend your money on that makes you money, yes?

And so when I got all these questions from these people, I thought, you know, maybe somebody needs to come out. I wrote the book on tax-free retirement, so why don't I write the book on closing? So I did it. And that's what we're doing. And we're hoping that people enjoy it. I love it. Well, I'm looking at the table of contents, and you can't get to the close without prospecting.

So chapter one is prospecting. And I'm confident that you are one that you want to go, you know what? Here's what everyone else says about prospecting, but here's what really to approach it. What are some of the basic ideas on prospecting you bring up? then what sets apart your strategies from other books on prospecting? Well, I think my biggest thing is that, you know, I'm a big believer, and nobody reinvents the wheel, right? And one of the things that I tell people that just because it can't be reinvented, it doesn't mean it can't be made better. And there, you know,

like, you know, people say different things. And language is one way and how you talk to people. You know, I tell people that, you know, Zigglers, I'm a big fan of Zig Ziglar. And he used to say, you know, if you call your wife a cat, you're going to get one response. If you call her a kitten, you're going to get another response. So how do we modernize that and then modernize it into the prospecting language and things like that? And I said, well, you know, when I'm on stage or I'm performing, I use that same thing that he says about language and stuff and how to react. And I do it a different way. I said, when I met my wife 15 years ago, and my wife's a very attractive woman, she's been a, you know, she did some swimsuit contests and all that really pretty lady.

And when we first met, we were dancing, you know. And I said to, her, I said, you know, a guy, I just try to be funny, Mike, you know, me, I'm always goofing. And I said, you dance like Pee Wee Herman. And 15 years later, she hasn't danced with me very often. And I thought that's what if I would have said, you dance like Uma Thurman and Paul Fitchin? Because it's the same dance, but it's a little different when you say that, yes? Interesting. Isn't that amazing?

It's just a tiny little shift. And that's where I try to tell people that prospecting can be the same thing. Everybody does it, you know, maybe the same way to different. What makes me my prospecting techniques a little bit different is I like to take, you know, young people, I like to take older guys and I like to show them stuff. You know, there's a lot of, a lot of gurus out there, a lot of young guys that are telling people that old school stuff doesn't work. And, you know, I'm a huge believer.

You know, I'm a huge believer in the number one prospecting technique that you have is yourself. And I believe in ABC, always be closing. And people say, well, you know, what? What do you do different about that? I said, well, the difference that I do about it is is that I try to treat people like, if I was a landscaper, for instance, or if I was a person that was building your patio in the back, or maybe I'm doing some other things, you know, construction work,

they always put a sign out front telling people in the neighborhood what they're doing. That's ABC. That's always becoming, they're letting the neighbors know what they do. So it's a financial person, a real estate person. You can do the same thing. You say, so when I go to someone's house, You put a sign in the front yard? No, I take my business car and I take it next door and I meet each neighbor on each side and each neighbor across the street.

Or if they're coming into the office, right, I have them give me some names or whatever, some people that they think I should be able to maybe send my book to or send an induction to or whatever. But to me, the most powerful clothes in the world is letting people know what you do. Yep, 100%. And I think that is so powerful to be able to think ahead. of time about those ways you position yourself in that prospecting and the talk and turning prospects into clients. That really makes a great first impression because I would venture to say that there's a lot of people out there, prospects that have had salespeople approach them that are like a bowl

in a china closet. But when you do some of the things you're talking about and pre-plan some of those talks and, you know, gently bring up questions or perspectives, that first impression is totally different when they talk to someone trained like what you're talking. talking about. Yeah, and I think you have to, I think the biggest thing people have to understand is the biggest part of selling and prospecting is listening. And I just don't think enough of that happened. The two words that I used and were taught to me, and it turned me into probably the best settlement ever, was shut up. Yeah. And I'm going to, you know, we got cups coming out with the book,

because I always say, yes, yes. And so we got, we got the yes mugs coming out. But one of my agents said, Why don't you have a cup that says shut up so we constantly remember that? You know what I mean? You know, I've heard I've been around sales training for decades and you hear that a lot. And it makes total sense like, you know, you use that silence so that the prospect is really thinking. But I would, I mean, that's one of the hardest things ever because you want to make sure they understand everything. You want to make sure they understood this point and that point making this thing. So being able to just be quiet and let people sit with their thoughts, it makes

much sense. It is so powerful, but it is so hard to do, right? And that's why you have, I'm a big believer in practice. You know, when I, you know, this is not really about closing. It's about speaking. But when I did my mom's funeral, I did my mom's funeral 10 times before I went out and did her funeral. And I tell people, it's the same thing when you, when you're doing sales. Practice 10 times before you go out. Practice with another sales partner. Practice with your manager. Practice with your wife. And then when you're finished, when you come out, one of the other mistakes, I think, I think, I think. people make in the closing side of the businesses, as soon as you leave that house, go get you a cup of coffee, a Coke, whatever. Within 15 minutes, you should be sitting down and dissecting

what exactly happened in the interview. What did I do wrong? What could have I done better? What did I do right? You know, those type of things. I think if you do that in the aspect of, and again, none of that's going to matter if you didn't listen to the client, right? And you're absolutely right, Mike, one of the things that we do a lot of times when I'm training people, I say, I tell them stop. Everybody stops. I'm talking. I said, nobody say a word. And I let them see how long 10 seconds is. Mike, that's a long time. But it really isn't. But that's what messes them up, right? They can't get to the 10 second without saying something. And if you learn to be able to do that, you're going to be one step ahead of everybody else.

So you said another word, listen. And I want to go a little bit deeper. there because just like the 10 second exercise you just said, I think let's go a couple layers deeper on this listening thing because it made me think of something that I think is super important and you, I'm confident, teach on this and can take it to another perspective, which is this. You don't want to be the person nod your head, smiling, listening, but your mind is waiting for the very split second opening to make your point and you're not really listening. You need to listen and understand and hear so that you can use their information and in the next steps of your conversation, make it seamlessly flow. Don't just smile and nod and you're not even hearing what they're saying because you're waiting for an opening to say your next point.

Yeah, I think that's the biggest problem in any kind of communication. It's not, you know, I tell people all the time, you can hear somebody, but it doesn't mean you're actually listening, right? They're just waiting for their turn to talk. And then when you do that, you're missing all the things you need to talk about. And I think a lot of times a client will give you everything you need if you just let them, right? And then you have to hear it back right back at them. You know, Mike, I noticed you're saying that, you know, you told me that, you know, in our list, you know, our second of conversation there, that you have a real need or a real, you know.

And then I just go into what you just said. And I throw it back at you, right? It's almost like, you know, where they used to teach us back in the day that if somebody crosses their arms, you know, they're telling you they don't want you, that kind of stuff. You know what I mean? Same thing can be done with listening. 100%. So what do you feel? What is your approach on objections?

And where I'm going with it is this. I know that you mentioned Zig Ziglar. I'm a big Zig fan and saw him live when he was still living and got many of his books. And I'm confident that on my bookshelf, I've got the Zig Zig Zigler book on, you know, overcoming objections. Do you feel like it's best to be prepared to overcome objections or to have in your conversation slash presentation things that overcome known objections before they even come up. Well, that would be my, you know, the way I do it is that I give them the objection before they give it to me. In other words, a lot of times, you know, you can do it a couple different ways.

Like when I do seminars, for instance, when I first, when I first come out into seminar, right when I close right when I start my seminar, the very first things out of my mouth are, listen, there's three things that are going to happen today, you know, three types of people that are hear one person really has some needs. One person wants a second opinion and just to eat. And they start laughing, you know, and I say, here's how we're going to do this. Every one of you have a sheet where you're going to be able to fill out. And you're going to be able to cover all the things I'm going to cover. I may not cover things that you came to see. So make sure you write that down. And at the end of the thing, I tell them, again, I haven't even began my presentation. I'm already

telling them I'm going to set appointments. Make sure that you put yourself in the box and the yellow box down there when you want me to see you, what time, your phone number, all that kinds of, and so I do that. But I do the same thing when I go in and I'm just doing a one-on-one or they're coming into the office. I always say, listen, I say, Mike, there's three things that are going to happen tonight. You're going to say yes, no, or I want to think about it. Yes? And then I say, yeah. I said, well, Mike, I'd like you to say yes, but you might very well say, no. What I don't want you to say, and what's not going to be allowed to be said is I don't, I want to think about it, okay? The reason why, Mike, is because there's, you're,

You're either telling me one of two things. I didn't do a very good enough job and you don't understand. Or, right, you'd said that to me because you just aren't in a position where you can do anything. You're just not, you're basically saying no in a nice way, yes? And so let's make sure, Mike, that we're clear on that. Now, he's still going to say it at the end, and I get that, but I've already addressed it, yes? And then the second number one that I always get is that it's too expensive, right? And that to me is the easiest one, because it's in it's like, well, Mike, the whole reason we're doing this is to get you in a position where if something does happen in your life, there'll be some funds or things available for your family.

So when you really say it's too expensive, you're actually saying that you really can't afford not to do this. Let's just figure out a way to make it happen. What's going to be the best way that we can still get what you need and still do it in a way that it's going to solve your problem? And also when you know the known typical objections and in your presentation conversation, you're like, you know, a lot of people think or a lot of people are worried about. And, you know, what we do is, and you're almost getting in the mind of that prospect going, yeah, darn, I was thinking of the same thing. And so you're connecting on a deeper level.

You are overcoming an objection so that it's not friction. And then maybe if they do have a little bit of a pushback kind of a thing, you're only handling one versus several. Yeah, and I, you know, everybody does it different. I mean, one of the things that I, I don't like to do, and I've done it, but I don't, I, it's never worked out is when, when one of the two spouses doesn't show up. Now, I've heard arguments on both sides where, you know, sometimes if they're doing a process or they're gathering information, it's fine. Okay, that's good. But, but in my case, if the other spouse isn't there, it's telling me one of two things. He doesn't pull the trigger, or she doesn't pull the trigger or they would be there.

Secondly, I'm going to have to re-explain it all over again when and if she comes back to the table. But I would say in my 35 years, I would say almost 100% of the time, you never get another interview because she wasn't there to begin with or he wasn't there to begin with. Yep. That's a good point. So now we've kind of done some good prospecting. We've understood how to freeze some of our talk and make that first impression. We've presented and overcome objections before they come. come up. Now we're at the point of the close. What are what are some of the points that people need

to to bring it home and and and make that sale happen? Well, so a lot of times the clothes, you know, everybody has to fill out in most cases an application or some sort of paperwork. And so it all depends on that process. Like if you're an insurance settlement, the easiest way to get the paperwork started to say, Mike, everything, you know, I've got everything over here. This is the way you wanted to go. You know, Susie, you like this. And, you know, I'm just re-end. narrating what we've done. I said, now I've got to ask you one important question, especially in life insurance, who is going to be the beneficiary? Now, I'm guessing that you'll be hers and her, but here's the big question, who's going to be the contingent beneficiary? Mike, do you know what a contingent? No, what is that? Well, what happens is if you two, and you two are together more now than any because you're married, and so there's a likelihood that you could die at the same time. And if that happens, you've got to make sure you have somebody else that can receive the funds or it's going to go into probate or estate. and it becomes a problem. So we always want to have a contingent beneficiary. So we start with that, and that's one way to get the clothes going. The other way that you do it is that you can say,

you know, everything's finished. It's a Mike, just one of the great things I like about this. And let's say I'm doing a car or I'm doing a real estate or whatever. You can just say, listen, you get to pick what day of the month you want this payment to come out. You know, and you want it to be the fifth, the 15th. Again, I'm giving them the dates. I'm not giving them an out. You don't give them an out. I'm not saying, Mike, you know, we've got to do a date here. You want a time to think about it. You don't say stuff like that.

It's all an applied consent, right? And then hopefully you've already handled all of the objections before you get to the close, right? I think the biggest part of the close is getting in front of the individual. And I think once you've done that, the rest of it should be relatively easy if you have everything in order and ready to go. And you can, you know, the stuff that they're way, that they wanted to begin. went to see you, yes?

100%. And when you were explaining the contingency beneficiary example, made me think of you use two separate closing techniques bundled up into one and it became really natural. You assumed the sale and you educated and taught a new piece of information so that it bonded even deeper that prospect to go. Now you do know what that is, right? Oh, well, that's what this is. And you assume that sales, okay, well, let's get going.

and then you probably can pepper in a little bit of silence and shut up right there after you do that, and you just sit there and smile. Yeah, and the awkwardness, you know, sometimes, you know, can be, you know, a little bit, you know, I guess I would say daunting, but sometimes, again, if you're not a season, seldom, you, again, it's the 10-second rule. Just wait a minute. It's fine. Everything great.

And if there's an objection, then you didn't do it. good enough job. And it doesn't mean that you're a bad salesman, doesn't mean you can't close, right? It just happens sometimes. I tell people all the time that the sad thing about being a good closer is when you're when you're brand new at closing and you're brand new at doing things, you almost, you know, missed the boat on the sense that you have to decide who is the client and who is the salesman. And a lot and what I mean by that is when people start out, you know, I get a young agent, he'll come in here and say, man, I've been over there four times. And all four times they didn't show up. Well, in my position, where I'm at in my career, I picked my clients.

So it wouldn't have been more than one time I went out there and they didn't show up or they stood me up for an appointment, right? And that's why I like having them come into the office, because if they don't show, I can still get work done. I don't lose a two hours in between driving back and forth to a client, yes? And so I like that part of it. But when a young agent makes that mistake, I say, listen, you always want to look at how the relationship starts. And if you're doing all of that to begin with, and I get it. These young guys, they got it. And they'll take pretty much anything.

And I've been there. I know how it is. But you still have to get the habit of training your client the way things are going to be. And if you do not, you're going to have a rough time with that client. And I'm not so sure there'll be a long lasting relationship. I love it. Well, Liam, it's been such a pleasure to draw from your decades of experience and talk about closing. And I think this book, The Closers Edge is going to be so powerful.

for people to read through and implement. What's the best way that people can reach out to you and get a copy? Well, the best way they can do it is they can go to master the close, the closersedge.com slash book. So it's master the close the closersedge. Dot com slash book. So that's the best way to get to get that and there'll be other stuff for us on there for them as well. Excellent.

Well, Liam, thank you so much for coming on today. It's been a real pleasure talking with you. Thank you for having me, Mike. I appreciate it. You keep doing the good stuff you're doing. I know that you're a big help to a lot of people. And, you know, I know you're a humble guy, but I know I appreciate everything you've done from me. Awesome. Thank you so much. You've been listening to Influential Entrepreneurs with Mike Saunders. To learn more about the resources mentioned on today's show or listen to past episodes, visit www. www.Influentialentrepreneurs Radio.com.