Business Innovators Radio - Interview with Wayne Miller and Darren Grunberg with Hale & Associates Discussing Income Retirement Planning

Episode Date: February 16, 2026

Wayne Anthony Miller, II, is the Senior Managing Director and Executive Vice President of Hale & Associates, an independent nationwide financial services firm. Hale & Associates has over 40 years of industry leadership. Wayne specializes in helping retirees and pre-retirees protect their life savings, maximize income, and build durable multigenerational legacy plans. Wayne’s mission is to safeguard assets families have worked a lifetime to build and empower every client to retire with clarity, confidence, and long-term peace of mind.Darren Grunberg is a fiduciary advisor who helps retirees protect their savings and create dependable income for life. After years as a professional trader, he saw how quickly markets could rise or fall — and how fast a lifetime of savings could be affected. That experience led him to focus on helping people avoid unnecessary risk and build retirement plans that feel safe, steady, and easy to understand.Darren works with retirees across the country to protect their savings from market volatility, create guaranteed income, and reduce the uncertainty so many people face in retirement. He believes every retiree deserves clarity and confidence, not guesswork. His goal is simple: to help people enjoy a retirement they can trust.Learn More: https://haleandassociates.net/Wayne Anthony Miller, II – 0G30788 Vice President of Sales Hale & Associates, LLC CA DBA Hale and Associates Financial and Insurance Services, LLC – LIC #6013528 CA DBA Wayne Miller Insurance and Financial Services – LIC #6014459 PH. 317-677-7178 PH. 949-943-5266 FAX. [e-mail] Investment advisory services are offered through RLB Financial a registered investment adviser. Insurance products and services are offered through individually licensed and appointed insurance agents.Darren Grunberg-CA LIC#4333498 Managing Director Hale & Associates, Inc. PH: [phone] PH: [phone] [e-mail] Entrepreneurs with Mike Saundershttps://businessinnovatorsradio.com/influential-entrepreneurs-with-mike-saunders/Source: https://businessinnovatorsradio.com/interview-with-wayne-miller-and-darren-grunberg-with-hale-associates-discussing-income-retirement-planning

Welcome to influential entrepreneurs, bringing you interviews with elite business leaders and experts, sharing tips and strategies for elevating your business to the next level. Here's your host, Mike Saunders. Hello and welcome to this episode of influential entrepreneurs. This is Mike Saunders, the authority positioning coach. Today we have back with us Wayne Miller and Darren Grunberg with Hale and Associates, and we'll be talking about building a smart income retirement. plan. Guys, welcome back to the program. Thanks for having us. Hey, thanks for having us, Mike. Hey, so I know we don't want to build an unsmart retirement income plan, but we want to talk about everything smart, but I think that sometimes people think about retirement and a retirement plan,

and they leave off that word income because I feel like sometimes people go, I want to retire at this age, I need this much money, and they stop. And they don't consider the income or the cash flow. So that's why I'm really excited to hear your thoughts on how this. will work for retirees. So how does Hale and Associates really approach uniquely retirement planning? Well, great question, Mike. First and foremost, we focus and prod ourselves on education and clarity. That is by far the most important thing for our clients is that we educate them and that we're clear in our message.

And we make sure that the retirees fully understand each part of their plan before making any decisions. And then we place a very strong emphasis on predictability because we believe that retirement should feel calm, structured, and secure. So again, it starts with education. If you're educated, it's almost like, I don't know if you remember Syms, at least in New York, Syms was a, he was a clothing retailer. And he said an educated customer is our best, no, an educated consumer is our best customer. It's no different than here. Education is paramount. So one thing I will guarantee you is that we at Helen Associates, we will educate you. We will make sure we hold your hand through the process because this is a very tough time in

your life. It's retirement. It's, you know, people aren't sure about what's going to happen in the future. So the things that we can control is through education and through clarification. You know, I want to tag on a little bit more on that education point because you mentioned a quote. I'm going to throw out another one that I've heard in years past. I learned it from Jeffrey Gidimer, the speaker. He said that people like to buy, but they don't like to be sold. Well, what's the difference? We as consumers like to understand and know what we're getting into or buying.

We don't want to feel forced. We don't want to have that salesperson telling us something and we feel forced to buy it. So to your point about education, that is the, the kindest, most ethical way to conduct and transact business is to teach and educate. Because then your prospect, your clients, they feel like you're part of the team. And you're guiding them in understanding the process. I think that is really, really powerful. So if I could just say one more thing.

Sure. Talking about education, the reason why I funded my retirement with fixed index annuities is for one reason and one reason only. education because the guy on the other side right here, Wayne Miller, he educated me and he held my hands through the process. And I'm someone who's pretty financially astute. I know my PDQs when it comes to finance, but when it came to fixed index annuities, I was a little bit apprehensive. But Wayne had the patience and really sat with me and educated me. And through education, I bought my fixed index annuities.

And that made me want to help. As Wayne said, we're on a mission to help and educate. And I think we're doing a pretty good job. 100%. So again, I want to kind of dive in a little bit deeper on that income retirement plan because I feel like a lot of people think I want to retire by age, whatever. I need my money to last until age whatever. And I need X amount of dollars to accomplish that.

But that's the 60,000 foot view. What they really need to dive into is what's the gap in the monthly need? And so that's where that retirement income planning comes in. So what separates income planning from traditional retirement planning and investing? I'll start. I'll take this, Darren, if you don't mind. Sure. So when you retire, you know, Mike, the purpose of your money changes.

And it's no longer about maximizing those returns. It's about funding your lifestyle. with consistency and stability. So traditional investing is growth focused. Income planning is sustainability focused. So what we do is we take an account longevity risk, inflation, health care costs, taxes, making sure the spouse, if they're married, that their spouse is taking care of, market downturns and sequence of returns risks.

So traditional investing cannot guarantee lifetime income. Structured income planning can. And when that income is guaranteed, everything else becomes optional, not stressful. So, you know, that's huge that you bring up. I want to dive in on one point there as it relates to the word that came into my mind is diversification. Because I feel like a lot of times people go, oh, I need this much money to retire. And yeah, yeah, I hear you talking about structured and income and annuity. That's good.

Well, what percent should go into this bucket and that bucket? That's for a whole other conversation. but I feel like sometimes people get diversification defined in their mind a little bit differently, and they go, oh, I'm diversified because I have my retirement income in 20 different sectors and stocks. Well, that's not proper diversification because all of your money is in that, you know, market bucket, whereas you need to have some money in those safe buckets. So is there a way that you guys begin to educate your clients regarding that? Well, I'll take this a step further if you don't mind, Darren.

Sure, of course. fast-toch on to you. So our approach, I think, is different, Mike, because this is how we pride ourselves in separating ourselves from the pack. We don't just begin with investments. We begin with income, and we first engineer their retirement. So what we do is we first identify the monthly income, a retiree needs to maintain their lifestyle. And then we evaluate their income sources. What guaranteed income do they have coming in? Whether it's their Social Security, their pension, if they have any other existing annuities. And we determine the remaining income gap. Then we structure retirement plan that's designed to help fill that gap with predictable, contractually guaranteed income.

They might have had an older annuity that they purchased years ago that's not performing. We look at the opportunity for them to potentially replace that annuity to put them in a better position. But then we also take into account tax strategy, inflation exposure, those health care costs, any required minimum distributions that they need to take out and spousal protection. And so our mission really, it's simple. It's to create a retirement plan that works in every market environment, not just the ones. Huge. Right.

So I wanted to just go back to a point that Wayne was mentioning with income planning versus traditional investing. And he kind of hit on it. And I just wanted to reiterate it because it is such an important. factor is that traditional investing is about growing money. And there's nothing wrong with that. You should traditionally invest from the time that you are in high school. Start investing. Absolutely. But then income planning is about converting that into income, taking money out of the market from a at-risk portfolio and turning it into a preservation mindset. That is, again, I can't reiterate that enough because once that paycheck stops when you retire,

your risk tolerance, trust me on this, will change drastically and dramatically. And retirees prioritize consistency over chasing returns. That is so, so crucial to a well-balanced retirement portfolio. Yeah, at some point, you circle the wagons and go, okay, I need to just put this protection around what I've accumulated and built over the years. And that's the shift that you're talking about. You know, I think, Darren, that sometimes people go, oh, I need to fix my car. Let me Google that and let me go to AI and find the solution.

You can't really do that with retirement planning, right? Because I think that there are certain mistakes that people will go out there and learn online or from their friend or colleague and, oh, I'm going to do it this way or that way. That could be a big mistake if you're not taking the holistic. approach. What are some of those mistakes retirees make when they're trying to do things on their own? Well, mistake number one, by far and large, is that they think that the markets are always going to cooperate. So, again, it's unfair, but if you look at the last couple of years, the market has gone kind of in one direction. So everyone has that false sense of security, but we all know the market

could change at any time. And unfortunately, that leaves them exposed when volatility strikes. And volatility meaning this, the ups and downs. So, you know, some take on more risk because they don't realize that retirement really requires a completely different mindset. You know, they all like accumulation, but sometimes it requires a different strategy than accumulation. And again, with longevity and inflation. which often get overlooked, leaving, you know, retirees unprepared for rising costs, you know, over a long retirement is a huge mistake that a lot of retirees don't take into consideration.

And unfortunately, too many retirees really try to kind of wing it, you know, without any kind of, like, structured withdrawal plan or income plan, which certainly can lead to, you know, inconsistent outcomes, especially, again, with your retirement account. the basis of your retirement count, you know, depends on what the market does. That it's a very, very, it weighs on your brain. It weighs on your, on everything about you. So again, it's all about taking, I say that's the theme here, is taking the mentality of the volatility and the accumulation and be smart and preserve and growth and income.

And again, that's what we try to do every single day is educate clarity. And I think, again, we're doing a pretty good job doing that. And one of the frustrations in life, I feel like, is when we have something happened that's out of our control and we go, I wish I could have changed something, but it's like taxes. I can't make taxes go down. I can't make inflation stop or go down. There's things that are out of our control, but we can do things to mitigate and really put is much protections around us, even though we can't control those things. So I think that emotional

impact and some of the consistency and learning and educate yourself and get with someone that can guide the process. That's a great point, Darren. So Wayne, what should a retiree do if they want to feel more secure about their retirement income? And I know it starts with education, but what are some of those things they should be considering putting into place? Well, one thing that you just mentioned is taxes. So taxes, I've learned and Darren's learned for a long time that more investors have lost more money due to improper tax planning in their retirement versus the market. So the nice thing about working with us, Darren, CPA background on the RIA side of the business, we have CPA background as well. So tax planning is huge, trying to get Uncle Sam off your back as

much as possible. I mean, if we look at historically, Mike, we're in one of the lowest tax rates in history. Now, I can't find anybody that I know that's going to say, hey, I love paying taxes. I love giving all this tax money to the government. I don't really know too many people that say they enjoy doing that. But if you look back historically, the highest tax rate was in 1947 when Ronald Reagan was an actor. I believe it was at 94%. He was complaining how high taxes were back then. So we all know the taxes are probably going to be going up. And so having proper tax planning is huge when it comes to retirees if they want to feel more secure about their income. And to take it a step further, really, the first step is clarity.

Most retirees, Mike, they don't know their true income gap. Okay, they know what they have, but not exactly what they need. The starting point is identifying those monthly essential expenses. Their life to style expenses, they want to go travel, they want to go on cruises, they want to go on cruises, they want to go on vacations. They like to go out to eat, other guaranteed income sources, and then the gap between the two. And then the next step is to work with a specialist like us who focuses on that structured income planning. And when they can see that income is mapped out year by year with contractual guarantees, Mike, it transforms their entire outlook. Yeah. Biggest thing for us that we've

noticed, Mike, is that confidence replaces fear. Clarity. replaces the guesswork, and that's the foundation of a secure retirement. You know, it's interesting that when you have, oh, I want to go visit the grandkids next month. Can we afford it? You know, the worst thing in the world would be to go, let's just wait until the first of the month to see if whatever happens so that we can see if we can do that thing we want to do. And I would venture to say that there should also be a little bit of a buffer in there. Like, you need X amount of dollars each month. Let's go ahead and factor in a 15% buffer. to make sure you've got a little bit more than that in case one of those factors we can't control

creeps up inflation taxes that kind of thing i think that's a really huge point that you're bringing up in about taxes boy um how do we know taxes probably will go up in the past in the future look to the past look at the deficit we currently have look at the fact that government spending whether you like it or not or believe it or not tends to be out of control and all of the ways you tame those two points is taxes so taxes probably can and will go up. How do you prepare for that? You can't ever get out of paying taxes, but you just can prepare for it.

So I think those are some great points you're bringing up there when. Darren, you were going to make a point? I was going to make one point. It's just the last thing I want to say. The question of retiring has to ask themselves is this. It's not, the question is not how much can I make in retirement, but what happens to my income if my, if the market goes down, 20 or 30 percent.

That really is the nutshell. You know, can you sustain it? Because as Wayne had mentioned in our first episode, sequence of returns risk, if your portfolio goes down 20 or 30 percent in the beginning of your retirement, unfortunately, it's not going to be a good outcome. So that's, again, that is why it's not how much you can make. It's how much income you bring in. And you need to know.

I think once, it's like many times we've mentioned the word fear. If you're fearful about living the money you have in retirement, well, if you put it down and you put some really dialed in numbers and you know where that gap is or where the things are to fill the gap and you have all of those things down and you go, okay, I feel like we've got this plan in place. Well, now all of a sudden that fear is gone, confidence is replaced. And now when something happens, you know, to hiccup or when you have to take out your required minimum distributions, that plan has already been.

dialed in and you're doing it sequentially with a plan in mind. Wayne, any final thoughts for you? I completely agree with what you're saying. It comes down to having that structured plan looking at the whole financial picture, not just one thing. And that's what we're here to do is to give retirees that peace of mind and confidence and clarity and ultimately Darren and I want to be a blessing to them in their retirement and have lifelong relationships.

Yep. That's what we're in this world. Education, relationships, lifelong, all those are key phrases that you get from people that really care and then want to guide the process. So, guys, if someone is interested in learning a little bit more and reaching out and connecting with you, what's the best way that they can do that? They can go to our website, which is www. HAL, that's H-A-L-E and Associates.net. www. hail and associates.net. Excellent, guys.

Thank you so much for coming back on. It's been a real pleasure. Hey, great to see you, Mike. Thanks so much. We really appreciate it. Hey, thanks. Investment advisory services are offered through RLB Financial, a registered investment advisor.

Insurance products and services are offered through individually licensed and appointed insurance agents. California insurance license number 0G-30788. You've been listening to Influential Entrepreneurs with Mike Saunders. To learn more about the resources mentioned on today's show or listen to past episodes, visit www.

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