Business Innovators Radio - Jack Turk: Explore The Possibilities Of Using AI Tools Like Chat GPT For Brainstorming Ideas And Generating Creative Copy

Episode Date: January 19, 2024

In this episode, Nina Hershberger interviews Jack Turk, a fast-writing copywriter with decades of experience and expertise in the field.Jack shares his journey from being a technical writer to becoming the head copywriter at GKIC, where he became the voice of Dan Kennedy. He also shares his experience in performing radio comedy shows with famous comedian Tim Allen.Jack emphasizes the importance of writing copy fast, as it allows copywriters to be more productive and generate revenue. He also explains how AI has changed the world of copywriting and how it can be used as an assistant for brainstorming and generating ideas. However, he advises copywriters to provide clear direction to AI tools like ChatGPT in order to get the desired results.When it comes to small business owners, Jack emphasizes the need to understand direct response principles and the importance of creating compelling offers. He advises small business owners to focus on building relationships with their audience and providing value in their copywriting. He also suggests joint ventures with related businesses to offer added value to customers.He highlights the power of personality in marketing and encourages small business owners to be unique, entertaining, and relatable in their copywriting.He is hosting an upcoming Copywriting Summit, where he and 25 other experts will share valuable insights and strategies to improve copywriting skills. The event is virtual and free to attend.To learn more about Jack Turk and the Copywriting Summit, visit www.copywritingsummit.com.Key Points:Writing copy fast is essential for productivity and revenue generation.AI can be a valuable assistant for brainstorming and generating ideas, but clear prompts are necessary.Small business owners should focus on understanding direct response principles and creating compelling offers.Building relationships and providing value in copywriting is crucial for success.Personality and entertainment can make copy more engaging and relatable.The Copywriting Summit, featuring 26 experts, is a free virtual event that offers valuable insights and strategies for copywriting improvement.MegaBucks Radio with Nina Hershbergerhttps://businessinnovatorsradio.com/megabucks-radio-with-nina-hershbergerSource: https://businessinnovatorsradio.com/jack-turk-explore-the-possibilities-of-using-ai-tools-like-chat-gpt-for-brainstorming-ideas-and-generating-creative-copy

Welcome to Megabox Radio. Conversations with successful entrepreneurs, sharing their tips and strategies for success, real-world ideas that can put Megabox in your bank account. Here's your host, Nina Hirshberger. Welcome to today's show. My name is Nina Hirschberger, and today I have with me. My guest is Jack Turk, and Jack has decades of experience writing. He's a writer, copyright.

a writer specifically, and he's written for all sorts of businesses, including dentists, attorneys, even magicians, and managed service providers, or IT kind of specialist. And from 2012 to 2015, he was the head copywriter at GKIC, where he became the voice of Dan Kennedy. But before we get started, and thank you, Jack, for joining me on today's call, but he also was perform radio comedy shows, and his friend that he performed it with is Tim Allen, which I'm fascinated to start the call today, Jack, with that story. Oh, well, that goes way back to when I got into writing.

I mean, you don't mind me expounding on that for a second. Yes. I went, sure, okay, I went to college, and again, thank you for having me on your night, I really appreciate it. It's so much fun to be here. When I was in high school, I was always kind of technical. You know, I was in chemistry and physics and took all those classes. I didn't know why I was going to do.

I wanted to be a scientist. And so I managed to wrangle a scholarship at Western Michigan University in the paper science department. So I was going to be a paper chemist. And that's really technical and, you know, chemistry and a mathematics minor and stuff. and kind of diddly bopping away through that a couple of years. And I saw an ad student newspaper said, are you funny? Can you be funny? And I thought, well, I didn't give a shot.

So I took the little test. And what it was was to do a group of students who got together to create like radio comedies for the student radio station. And so we got together. The name of the group was five fingers salute, which is basically, you know, you stick your thumb on your nose. you wear the other fingers, that kind of thing. That's sort of what it really stood for. And we did for over two years, we did all probably, you know, about a dozen or so different little half hour. One of our episodes was an hour of radio shows where we did a bunch of skits through it,

and sound effects, et cetera, et cetera, that classic radio comedy. And we had a blast. It was just a blast. And it got me into change my major because I thought this is a heck a lot more fun than doing chemistry, you know, I'm making, making paper. So I got into creative writing instead of my major. And one of the guys in our group was Tim Allen. He wasn't Tim, his name wasn't Tim Allen. It was a, it was a official, no, his real name is Tim Dick, Timothy Dick. And he changed his name for whatever reasons you can imagine as he went into the field of entertainment and comedy

and stuff. But I've known Tim since like the late 70s. I actually appeared on television with him around 1978, I believe, at 1 o'clock in the morning on a, like a local TV station that was just, it was a horrible TV show. It's just a horrible, you know, we, all he did was like, it was called Up Late with Doug Ekman, and what he would do, he would just pan a camera around this empty studio and play music. So we approached him and said, hey, we'll do some skits. And so we actually went and did some skits, and I put it on TV with Tim, way back when. Interesting. Well, Western Michigan. So you were in Kalamazoo, Michigan then.

That's correct. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm from northern Indiana. Yeah. So that's interesting. I didn't realize he was from that area or at least I suppose he went to school there. Doesn't mean he was from there. Oh, yeah. Tim was from the east side. Yeah. Tim is from Detroit. And I was from like a little town called Constantine, was about 30 miles south of Kalamazoo. That's where I grew up. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I grew up in Elkhart, so I absolutely know where Constantine is. Oh, gosh. There is. You're the only only one. Well, you know, so that was interesting.

That got you into creative writing. Well, obviously, copywriting is much different than traditional kind of creative writing. So let's get started and talk about, you know, copyrighting. Obviously, Dan Kennedy, which we both have followed for years and years, and you became the voice of his for many years, you know, probably, well, maybe started with Gary Halberts or somebody, but anyway, give me your definition of copywriting. Well, Dan Kennedy's essentially, it's got to persuade to take an action.

It's direct response. Dan's the master of direct response in magnetic marketing. And the whole point of copywriting is writing, a letter, a postcard, headline, video sales, whatever, all with a goal of persuading someone to take an action. Now, that action could be to click a button to opt in to provide information about your name, your email address, contact information, maybe to make a sale, maybe to set up a phone call, whatever.

But it's got to have some call to action in it. That's how I define it. There's got to be a call to action. So when you were writing for Dan's voice, was that tough? I mean, how did you get into that mode? Learning to write like Dan basically required that I immerse myself in Dan. And I listened to Dan. I listened to his recordings.

I read his books. I read his emails. I read everything I could from Dan. You know, I bought the, you know, I involved in the courses. I just, just immersed myself a thousand percent into Dan. So I understood, you know, where he was coming from. I mean, honestly, I'll share something. Like, when I first came on board, they did a, they did like a little test to see whether I could write like

Dan, they gave me a couple things to test projects. And I did pretty, and I did, obviously, I did well enough that they brought me on. But I made a huge mistake that they didn't, that they didn't ding me for in that I mentioned, I wrote like a test email, and I mentioned about my, using my cell phone as, speaking as Dan. Yeah. Dan didn't, yeah, we both know. Dan didn't have a cell phone. Dan, really?

He didn't have a cell phone. exactly that would have been i'm surprised they didn't catch that that is you know i mean anybody who's been around dan for a long time we know that's not possible right you know yeah so tell me so let's go back in time though after you graduated from western michigan then what happened where did you go from that point well i got out i got out of college and I had a degree in English, a bachelor's of English, and a minor in mathematics. Because I kept the math minor because I had like enough credits accumulated. I figured, well, let's just keep going with it, you know.

And it was just fine. I kind of liked both of them. And so I go to the Michigan Employment Security Commission, like for advice on career direction. And I went to the guy, I said, I sat down and got an appointment, you know, with the counselor. And so what do I, what do I do with this kind of combination? math, you know, an English major, math minor. And the guy sitting across from me from the government employee sitting across me, he said, well, I guess you could flip burgers.

Oh, my. That was good advice. That was encouraging. Where I wound up, I wound up getting sort of an administrative kind of job at a local data processing company in Kalamazoo. and I'd heard in college about sort of a role slash career path known as technical writing where you write procedures and do for technology. And it was a technology company.

And so I eventually morphed that position into a role there where, and it was just at the beginning of the interactive computer age where people are starting to do terminals and there online applications and and so I wound up writing the manuals for their applications that they installed in their client's offices. So I do know, you did work for Microsoft and Kodak, so is that what you were doing during those years? Yeah, I started, I went, I bounced around the company, I, around the country. I got, I left Kalamazoo, got a job working with the U.S. Army in San Antonio, Texas,

did that for a couple of years as a technical writer there, went to, the East Coast, did a job there with Kodak, a subsidiary Kodak, and did technical writing there. And that's how I wound up at Microsoft, where I got a job as a technical writer in the Multimedia Systems Group. And I worked manuals and online stuff. I did the first help file for Windows Media Player. I wrote the first programmer documentation for the first video for Windows stuff.

I had a fun career at Microsoft. I worked on great projects. I worked on flight simulator, Age of Empires. worked on Xbox games. I had a really enjoyable career. Well, you know, after I finished college, I worked in IT for many years as well. So I understand what your technical writing, but that's pretty boring. And that certainly isn't persuading anybody to buy something.

So how did you get into copywriting? Well, I've always been into magic. I've always been a magician. ever since I was like five years old. I can remember watching the magical land of Alicazam with Mark Wilson, who was a wonderful magician. He had that on Saturday morning, so I thought this was the greatest thing ever. And I wanted to be a magician. And I remember getting a little shoebox and putting a ball in, rubber ball in it, and the lid on, waving a tinker toy over it as a wand and going,

Aber cadaver, wishing the, hoping the ball would disappear, but it didn't. So I figured, I got to figure this out. So I learned there's our little library in town had a few books on magic. Well, you're in that area, you know, you grew up in that area. You've heard of Kola, Michigan, right? Yeah, yeah, right. The Magic Capital of the World, that's only, that's only like a half hour drive. And my mom would drive me to Kolan to Abbott's Magic Factory there and buy me some tricks.

And I bought books. And so I learned to be a magician. I was always in the magic, just always in the, and over the years, I did shows kind of on the side here and there. And I wanted to do shows, you know, I was reasonable. You know, I wanted doing shows like basically through agents. You know, agents would get me shows. And but I saw one while I work at Microsoft, I saw an ad in like the Magic Magazine,

which I belong to International Brotherhood of Magicians. I'm actually Order of Merlin. I'm an Order of Merlin magician in the International Brotherhood of Magicians. And let me tell you the secret to becoming the Order of Merlin, all right? You pay your dues for, 25 solid years. Yeah, you give them money. Yeah.

And say your order of Berlin, you know, amazingly enough. There wasn't a test rating. But anyway, I saw this add in my magic magazine, which was how to make $100,000 a year as a magician. I thought that's interesting because I was getting kind of, you know, I'd been at Microsoft for a long time and I was just kind of ready to try something different. And so I got, it was from Dave D. And it was a free report.

I got the free report, which of course was a sales letter in the classic Dan Kennedy lead magnet sort of style. And I bought the course on how to market yourself as magician. And I just embraced that. I embraced it. I went all in on it. I learned all about copywriting. I thought, this is great.

I just loved it. And so I learned how to market myself as a magician. And on my 50th birthday, I walked in, I got good at it. And on my 50th birthday, my boss was walking into my office, putting up like a happy birthday thing. I said, hey, Alan, shut the door. and I quit my job to become a full-time magician and also an infomerator to magicians. And so that's kind of where I cut my teeth.

I cut my teeth on learning how to market myself. And I had a really good website for, I had multiple websites on how to, for being a magician. I did in, for different markets, you know, there's, there's like birthday parties, there's kids shows, or just being a regular magician, et cetera. and I also learned how to market, do info marketing, sell products. And so I learned how to do webinars. I learned how to do email marketing. I learned how to set up sales pages.

I learned all that stuff. And so that's where I kind of cut my teeth. I worked with Dave over and over for those years. And I eventually, the way it worked was I kept sending Dave money. And I kept doing stuff and he kept, well, wait a second. You're not bad at this. How about I send you a little project? And Dave kept sending me projects.

So eventually the money started coming back, my way. And Dave started hiring you to do stuff with him. I worked a lot with Dave over those years. And that's really how I learned copywriting, how I wound up at KIC. Interesting. Very, very interesting. Well, fast forward, you know, because it's now many years after even the voice of Dan Kennedy, and you wrote a book, how to write killer copy fast. So is writing fast a really important part in copywriting? I think it is. I think it's important. for several reasons. One, if you're just, if you're a copywriter, you just tend to be, you're kind of most copyrighted

alone, you know, and you, the thing that's restricting you from making more money is your ability to produce. So if you are agonizing over every word, every sentence, every paragraph, every page, it's slowing down your ability to be productive and actually generate revenue. And to solve problems for your clients, your clients need, They don't want the cop. I've never had a client say, oh, I don't need it for a few months. Nope, never has a client ever come to me and said,

I don't need this for like months and months and months. It's always, I need this now. So your ability to deliver now is so important. It makes you much higher value to them. So being able to write copy fast has such incredible value to you as a business person. So give me some stories, some success of when you have written for, some of those clients. What changed in their business?

I love stories. So give me a few stories. I'll give you one of my favorite little stories about why, which proves that spending a ton of time on something really doesn't matter. The amount of time you spend on a piece of copy. I had a customer who was a lawyer and he had an attorney in, actually in New York City. And he had an opportunity. He came with an opportunity to serve people who had been affected by 9-11.

The government had, Congress had passed a compensation of a huge chunk of change to people who had gotten cancer due to all the effects of 9-11, you know, on all the buildings crashing and all that, all the dust on all the net. And there was a huge amount of money available. And people who had lived up in that neighborhood on that day, you know, were eligible if they ever, if they were experiencing a number of, you know, health problems. And he was, his business, his attorney, his practice would help them walk through the process of getting their money. Getting money that was due, you know, I think, respond, you know, do that, do that. Actually, it was a great, it was a wonderful offer. and so I sat down

I said well why don't you just do a postcard you can get the addresses you know you can just put out a postcard and just send to like people in those neighborhoods and if they happen and say hey if you've been here so I basically I banged out a postcard in 30 minutes front and back copy you know which told them about this

and I only spent 30 minutes on I mean I only had like it was like a quick sort of essentially like we had he had to have it done to meet. It was like, really, he was like, I needed this now so he could take a jump on it. And I banged it out. He put it out. And so far, I believe he generated well over $600,000 in profits. Well, Jackie, now, Dan, one of the things Dan will talk about is long copy. Obviously, he didn't have much space on a postcard. So how, how did that work then? The key really was it identified people who knew they needed help.

So the list was the potential list was good. And the offer was just insanely good. All they had to do, if they fell into this category, they were eligible for, I forget, honestly, I think they were eligible, like for six, up to six figures, like a huge amount of compensation. And so it was like all they had to do is call to see if they're eligible. That's it. So the power of the offer and the list, I think Brian Kurtz will say over and over again. Like it's the list and the offer are 40% each of the results of, you know,

attributable to the success of a piece. The copy, you know, you want to have good copy, obviously. But it's your job as a marketer and as a copywriter to really help them. understand, is this the best, very, very best list? Is this the very, very best offer? Those two factors are so important. Are just critical. Yeah, that makes sense.

So I have the wallet mailer that I've had for years, and that's what people know me in the GKRSU world, obviously is the wallet mailer lady. And people will say to me, what kind of response can I get from that? And I said, well, it all depends on your list first. because if you're a hearing aid company and you're going to mail to 18-year-olds, you're going to get zero response. So, you know, you are spot on, you know, the list and then the offer, that's for sure.

Okay, so let's talk about, we want to talk about AI. So what we've said is, what you said is you've got to do it fast. Obviously, you've got to know the fundamentals. You've got to use the psychology. you've got to have a good list, you've got to have a good offer. But what has AI changed in the world of copywriting? I think AI, to my mind, there's multiple uses for it. There's a lot of fuzziness about it still.

A lot of people still think you can just plug in, you know, write me a sales letter to sell my book, and it'll generate something. Well, it'll generate something, but it's not going to generate something that's really any good. It's learning to use, for example, chat GPT, to use chat GPT, you really have to understand several things. You really have to, it's kind of stupid. I mean, it's amazing, yet it's stupid because it doesn't know your market. It doesn't know your offer. It doesn't know your voice.

and you have to give it all that information as part of the prompt you provide in order for it to generate something. So it's really important. You're not only, you don't, you're not only have to know what you want. And I actually, it's funny. I just saw an interview with somebody I spoke with recently. You have to know what you want. you have to know what you want, you have to know what your prospect wants,

and you have to know how to talk to the AI in a way that it understands. It's really important that you bring yourself up to speed in that area. Because, you know, obviously you did it individually. You did it by yourself, but having AI as an assistant. Because that's really what it is. It really isn't your copyright. It is your assistant to help you. Yeah, I find it really useful.

I think it's even at a moderate level of expertise, you can use chat GPT as an amazing assistant for brainstorming. You can ask it to brainstorm headlines, and they'll give you a ton of headlines. Now, I'm not going to say some of them better than others, but it'll spark ideas you probably wouldn't have thought of otherwise. So it's a great tool for brainstorming. Fantastic tool for brainstorming.

I think it's like really it almost let you, it's almost like the world's greatest auto-generated swipe file. Yeah, yeah, no, that makes perfect sense. Yeah, but a good copywriter that you are, I mean, you have a certain cadence with the writing as well. I have not, I mean, maybe I'm just not doing good at prompting, but I haven't found that any of the AI has the same cadence that Jack would have by writing himself.

No, it's, and that's, again, that's part of what, it only knows what you, what you tell it. It's like, well, you're, you know, you work in data processing, so the old thing was garbage in, garbage out. Yeah, yeah. And so it, it's very, you know, it's very, you know. have to remember that when you're working with AI and chat GPT that the more concrete examples you can give it and clear direction you can give it for what you want it to produce, the better the end result will be.

So if you're a business owner, a local business, let's say you are an attorney, let's say you are a dentist, auto repair, or whom, you know, name the business or whatever, do you think these days, Jack, they should learn all of this stuff themselves, or is it better to hire a professional copywriter? What's been your experience? I think, I'm going to go back to what I remember Dan saying, if you are responsible for marketing, you've got to understand marketing. You got to know. So they have to know direct response principles well enough that they can at least make an intelligent decision about it.

I think that's so critical for all small. If you're going to be a direct response marketer as a small business, you at least need to understand the core principles and know what to look at and go, that looks like it's going to solve my problem or that totally out of left field

and then close to what I want. That doesn't mean they should become a copywriter. But it does mean they should at least know enough to recognize that's at least in the ballpark. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, that makes perfect sense.

I go back to the book with Michael Gerber, though, the e-miff, and it's the entrepreneur myth. That's what he stands for. And if you're good at repairing cars and you're tired of working with, you know, for somebody, you're going to start your own repair, you know, you're going to start your own bakery as Michael Gerber had in the book. and instead of owning the business, you're now working in the business.

So the best thing you can do is actually get out of your own way, hire people to do, you know, repair the cars or whatever, and become very good at the marketing. Do you remember, because you're a long-term GK. I see first, do you remember Dr. Greg Nielsen up in Waterford, Wisconsin? He's a chiropractor. Okay. Dan talked about him.

I first met Dan in 1994, so I go back a long way. Oh, good for you. Yeah. Yeah, and Greg was, Greg is brilliant. And our daughter was thinking about becoming a chiropractor, and he said, you know what? Here's my advice to her. Hire another chiropractor. Don't become one yourself.

Just get very good at marketing. And that's exactly in a little town of 6,000. He literally owned it. and created the most amazing marketing pieces because he understood that marketing. And what happens, Jack, would you know? So many of us, we find we really love the challenge of creating something that somebody then will give you money for

by whatever it is you're doing. Yeah, I remember one of the things Dave told me, Because he was really good at marketing, obviously Dave was really good at marketing and really good at marketing. His service is a magician. He said he loved making the sale. He just didn't like going off and doing the show that much anymore. Yeah. Yeah, that's exactly, that's exactly right.

Do you still do magic? Oh, now and then. I still do a few shows here and there. I kind of miss it a little bit. I still have, I got the stuff all around me still, too. I've got a deck of cards sitting beside me right now, and I got robes for a rope trick. I mean, I still do this stuff, you know. You know, the funny part about it is I now have some friends that are magicians.

I've never been in that, you know, industry or anything. But it is a pretty close society. And if I say, well, do you know so-and-so and they're a magician? Oh, yeah, I know that. You all know each other. Yeah. Well, there's not that many, which is one reason I kind of got out of that as an info marketing business. It just, it wasn't, there weren't, there aren't that many magicians worldwide, for one thing.

And the second challenge you have is to make, like, make it like a coaching program, et cetera, et cetera, and typical info marketing stuff is that most of them, most of the magicians just want to learn tricks. Those spend, like, you know, thousands of dollars on a trick. But, you know, send, give them a book on, you know, sell them a book or a course on, you know, for a hundred bucks on marketing. Nah, I'm not going to do that. I forget that. Yeah, I don't like marketing. No, I want to do the magic.

Yeah. So did you get to hang out with Dan personally a lot, or did you just have to read all of this stuff? I didn't hang out with Dan that much, to be honest. I got, he's always been very, very gracious to me. I have his fax number, and I faxed him notes back and forth a few times over the years and he's and I he uh when I left GKIC in 2015 um he he I met with him you know and this was like at his as a gift to me he spent like a half hour with me and gave you some advice for for you know career advice etc he was very gracious he's always been very

gracious to me I have nothing but but you know nothing but praise and um kind words say about Dan I think Dan's amazing yeah I was fortunate enough to have a two days with Dan. A small group, there was about five of us, that got to spend a couple days with him. And so one of them was in the basement, you know, his famous basement. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

The thing I kicked myself the most about Jack is I did not take more pictures of all of his walls. I don't know what was wrong with me. I mean, there's a bathroom even in the basement, and you go in there, and it's littered with stuff all over the walls. And that's the thing. I regret. Let's go back to the small business owner now.

Do you have any other tips, any other advice for somebody who is a small business owner and how they can increase based on writing good copy? I think the key thing is to first embrace, you know, understanding, you know, direct response principles, you know, anything. Everything you can get from Dan, first off. What out of a question? Dan, you know, the ultimate sales letter, et cetera, et cetera. The biggest thing that, you know, I really think small business knows need to embrace the notion of, like,

work on creating widgets and, like, offers. Offers are so important. They don't think in terms of that way. You know very well how, you know, that ability to create offers. Dan talked about it over and over and over again, like bundling services, bundling products, doing something out of the ordinary, that's so important. And if you can do that and also managing your list, understanding the importance of having a list of customers

and staying in contact with them and keeping up with them and knowing who really you serve best, those two things alone will make your copy better. I mean, frankly, just knowing your who and knowing and having amazing authors. If you just have those two things, your copy is going to be above and beyond anything else, anybody else, any of your market is going to have, any of your competitors, because they're just going to be doing the same old, same old stuff they've been doing forever,

anybody else does. Well, so when you see offers, so let's say it's an auto repair guy. So, you know, they think, well, I'm only thing in the offers. I'm just fixing cars and trucks, but they could. Oh, there's so many things they can, do they have like regular maintenance, like a regular maintenance program? So like, you know, I don't want my car to break down, you know?

I mean, can you have like some sort of ongoing, you know, like every, every four months or whatever? Not only just oil chains, you know. J.Pley Loub actually does a decent job of it. They sent, they have a communication and they do a regular, they do the complete checkpoint analysis, et cetera, So it's not just an oil change. They go through a whole long laundry list of things they do.

They check the area of your tires, instead. They do a diagnostic and they do. They're actually really good, I think, you know, as an example to look at for just kind of in that industry. In an auto repair shop, they should certainly be, you know, anybody who ever came in, they should have them on the list and they should have, you know, Dan talks about the customer newsletter. They should have some kind of email newsletter. at a minimum, you know, the local guy, you know, here's what's going on.

I mean, I just think it's so much they can be doing besides just, you know, be here. I'm here if you need me. Well, I don't need you that often, but there are other related services you can provide me. Well, that's interesting. You said a newsletter because I was talking to somebody the other day who was looking to buy a franchise. And one particular franchise they were looking at was the UPS start. And I said, I am friends with a local UPS store owner here in our area. And he has a newsletter.

I said, now it's not really good. And he certainly doesn't mail it. And when he's not there, his staff certainly doesn't pass it out. And here's what she said to me. She said, newsletters don't work anymore. Everybody is so unindated with so many. offers and pitches and all sorts of things, it doesn't work. What would your response be to her, Jack?

If all you're doing is sending people pitches, pitches, pitches, pitches, pitches, then I would agree. But are you actually trying to build a relationship with someone? Are you sending them stuff that's interesting? Are you trying to be interesting and different as opposed to, oh, by the way, here's my next offer. By the way, here's my next offer. I don't think that I agree with, I agree that that's, that's noise. So how can you stand out from the crowd and what you're sending them? Are you sending stuff that's used to them in their lives?

Like I, you know, like if you're a dentist, if you're sending like an email newsletter, is it all about teeth and whitening? And whitening, is that it? Every month, every week? I don't want to hear about teeth and whitening every week, you know? I got other things. But if you send me, oh, I, you know, you know, you know, send me something, five ways to save money on your health insurance or something like that.

Or maybe, you know, it's springtime, here's the three things you need to do in your yard to make sure, you know, it's going to be, you know, you're going to keep, get it ready for the summer or whatever. Just, or fun facts about, fun facts about recipes or whatever, you know, see what I'm saying? Like, think about my life, what matters to me in my life besides, you know, the service you're off. Yeah, you could even join venture with, you know, I mean, if you're a dentist, you obviously have some business owners that come in. And so maybe you join venture and, you know, you use their list and your list. And now you let them even put an article in there about, you know, let's say it's an insurance agent and, you know, how to protect your assets or, I don't know, whatever.

Right. Right. You're offering values that are, they have lives. It's not, their lives don't, their lives do not, it's not rotating. around, they're not orbit around your service. Their lives, they're all over around like,

I got to get the kids in school today. You know, I got to pick them up. You know, like it's, I don't like, you know,

I got to, we're looking on vacation. What can we do for a vacation this year? You know, we're kind of a little short, or a little height. What can you,

what fun ideas can we do for the save money and actually have a wonderful vacation? You know, all kinds of things like that. You know, where their lives are at. You know, talk to them

in those terms, not just pitch, pitch, pitch, pitch, It's pitch. Yeah, you know, I talked about it, Dr. Nielsen just a few minutes ago, but his newsletter, what he does is he puts somebody, one of his patients on the front of it, every single newsletter. He produces it every other month. And they're so funny, you know, like, you know, one, I remember one of them was she was a hand model. Now is she a hand model?

No. But he put it on there and he wrote a story about her. And I mean, it's just, it's just fun. And people love getting his newsletters because of it. Well, you just said such an important thing. Do people want to be taught or sold to or do they want to be entertained? Yeah. Who doesn't want to be entertained?

We all love to be entertained. So, yeah, be well, and, you know, Dan, you know, I think the whole outrageous advertising stuff. You know, be willing to be different. Be willing to be yourself. Be a regular human being. Be, you know, whatever your quirks are. You know, talk about your quirks. Talk about, you know, be different.

Be unusual. Don't be afraid of it. I think one of the best things that Dan ever produced was personality and marketing. That's one of my very favorite things that he ever produced. And he talked about, you know, you have to be a hero, but it's got a hero with a flaw. So you're right. You're saying, okay, what's my problem? You know, I can't get this dog to, you know, to quit barking when you know, whatever.

You know, you just have fun with it. Oh, yeah. Dan talks about, like, he's no good at, like, you know, home repair kind of stuff. He's not a handman. He's definitely no Dan's not a handyman. You know, he can't do it. He can't hang a picture straight, you know. Not his thing.

But here's the lesson. he taught us. We know that. We know that he, you know, you know, have an alcohol problem at one time. We know that he's been married to the same woman twice. We know there's certain things that he has led us into. We know he doesn't have a cell phone. We know that he hates it when the men go to the bathroom and they're talking on their cell phone while they're peeing. I mean, we know those things. And so, Jack, I, this has been so fun. I am looking at the classroom. I am looking at the clock, though, and we are almost out of time. I know there's going to be some people that are listening to this who say, I need to know

more about copywriting, how to make it better, and how do you perhaps AI to do that? And I know you've got an event coming up. Tell us how somebody, if they want to be participating in that, can do that. All right. I actually have spent a great amount of time talking with 25,000. other experts in copywriting, different, all kinds of, you know, including Dave D. Dave's going to talk about doing presentation, one to many presentations and selling on a presentation, how to do that.

Rick Zazzari, who was the master of video. He did the original, OxyClean, George Farming Grill, GoPro, all those massive brands. because the GSP being that. I talked with them and a number of other people, and we're doing a copywriting summit, February 8th through the 11th. It's totally free, 26 different speakers, because I'm including myself also. I'm going to talk about writing copy fast. And totally free, and all you have to do to sign up is just go to www.

Copywriting Summit.com. And all the videos, the videos range from, oh, 30 minutes to an hour. all the train different people amazing takeaways amazing insights tons of rider downers and all and it's virtual are virtual so you don't have to go anywhere you don't have to you don't have to put on your fancy pants you don't have to buy a plane ticket get a hotel sit in the bar whatever all that money you know just sit at home and watch it's or sit in the office and watch it's are totally free and I I think I'm just so proud of the people I've managed to gather, and some of the insights are incredible.

And do I understand Tim Allen might be part of it? Well, yeah, he's actually one of the speakers. I managed to wrangle Tim to come on board for about an hour and talk about his life, a little bit about his life and television and his insights on storytelling and what he's learned and doing stories and doing stand-up and how we use stories into stand-up because, you know, he'll say, he didn't tell jokes, he tells stories. And he was wonderful. I mean, he was great. Well, that's a lesson right there in copywriting.

Story sell, right? Oh, absolutely. All about the story. Absolutely. Well, Jack, this has been such a pleasure. It's been my honor to have you on the show today. I love it. I love all of the information you gave.

your energy and your enthusiasm and everything. So thank you so much for taking the time. Thank you, Nita. I had a great time. I'm so honored you to have me on. Yeah. Well, until next time, this is Naina Hirshberger, and my challenge to you today is get a piece of paper out and a pencil

or your computer, whichever, and start writing. Start making that first thing in copywriting there. And then sign up for Jack's event. Until next time. Thank you for listening to Megabucks Radio with Nina Hirshberger. To learn more about the resources mentioned on today's show or to listen to past episodes, visit megabucksradio.com.