Business Innovators Radio - Jackie Brennan – Founder – Mark Stephen Pooler

Episode Date: July 2, 2023

Jackie Brennan, the Construction Wellbeing Catalyst, is a international speaker, sought after coach and trainer, Women in Construction Ambassador, Mental Health Ambassador, author, CEO and Founder of Workplace WellbeingAfter working in the construction industry for 39 years and having worked from the ground up to the board table Jackie knows what it takes to build a construction company that really thrives. She also knows where the gaps are.Jackie literally turned her life upside down after she realised that whilst she loved her job, she also wanted something more from her work. Instead of returning to a corporate job Jackie decided to take on a new purpose and direction by sharing a different perspective on mental health and wellbeing.www.contactjackie.comSource: https://businessinnovatorsradio.com/jackie-brennan-founder-mark-stephen-pooler

Welcome to Business Innovators Radio, featuring industry influencers and trendsetters, sharing proven strategies to help you build a better life right now. Welcome to Brilliant Business TV conversations with leading experts in business. I am your host, Mark Stephen Pula. We have a wonderful guest today, Jackie Brennan. And mental health is something that affects many, many people. around the world. So I know how important of a topic it is. So I'm really looking forward to a conversation with Jackie. We are streaming live on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn, YouTube. We're also on the E360 TV network under fresh takes going to go to Apple TV,

Fire TV, Android, Roku and many more. We're also streaming on MSPNewsglobal.com. And we're also on Business Innovators Radio Network. I want to make an official shout out to our show sponsors, Dreamweaver, Artist, Runch. Let's bring in our incredible guest, Jackie Brennan. Jackie, welcome to Brilliant Business TV. It's wonderful to be here, Mark. Thank you for the invite. I'm really looking forward to a really interesting conversation today, so let's get started with the show. Jackie, the construction industry has the reputation of the male-dominated environment and potentially quite a dangerous one with regards to physical injuries. What took you and kept you in that industry? Oh, that will go back quite a long time, Mark, going back. So why did I start in the construction industry?

When I left school, I wasn't sure what I wanted to do. My father worked in the construction industry, though he was mainly office-based. He was a civil engineer. So I guess he followed in his footstep. And I went into the civil service. I was a civil engineer. I was a technician. And at that time, I was the only female they had in the office.

And it continued that way throughout my career for a long time in my career, being the only female. that male-dominated environment. But I found that it suited me. I actually loved the work. And one of the reasons I realized it suited me, and it took me a long time to get there, was that I didn't have to display any emotions. In fact, emotions were seen as very, no, we don't,

that isn't needed here. In fact, it wasn't wanted here. And the reason that I didn't show emotion was because my growing up, my background was that I was, I am, was one of six children, the second oldest of six children. But by the age of 23, four of my siblings had died. And three of them before I was 12 years old. So I became this, unconsciously became this perfect child at the age of 12 and set myself very high standards. I was a perfectionist, but I also suppressed any emotion that I was feeling and I never told

anyone how I was feeling or asked any questions about anything and I got very good at doing that because I spent over 30 years suppressing any emotions so the construction industry with that male-dominated environment suited me down to the ground and the perfectionism also did very well for me because striving for perfectionism everywhere meant that I worked really really hard I set myself very high standards and I got promotion after promotion after promotion. But the more I got promoted at work, the more that became my identity. So when my last contract finished, our contract finished in 2018 and I was working in Canada. I came back to the UK and I thought it was near Christmas. I thought, I'll take a little time off. No, give myself Christmas, look for a new contract

come January. Well, January came and I thought, no, I'll take a little bit more. more time off, well, that one month turned into three, turned into six, turned into nine, and I finally realized I was burnt out, completely burnt out, didn't want to go back, couldn't have gone back, had no motivation to go back into an industry that I'd actually loved. And it was my journey of discovering why that had happened to me and resolving all those past issues that I hadn't even realized were affected me that took me down the road of NLP, hypnosis,

breath work, doing a lot of that holistic therapies. And when I heard about the, I realized that the crisis, the mental health crisis within the construction industry, I thought, well, I have 39 years in that industry. I now have all these

complementary therapies. It was a, it just seemed ideal to bring the two together and take that back into the industry. Because mental health is definitely, it's a crisis that the construction industry is facing. Because as you said at the start to know, that construction is considered a very,

yeah, a dangerous industry with physical injuries, high risk. But today, now, you're more danger of dying from suicide than a fall from height. suicide kills two UK and Ireland workers every day

every day it's horrendous and last year 507 people died from suicide construction workers and that's why

it keeps kept me in the industry not going back to what I originally started as but now using the skills with my expertise

in the industry to go back and help to improve mental health and well-being. It's a really, really interesting topic, Jackie. And you mentioned suppressing emotions, and it does come back to bite you on the bum at some point when you suppress your emotions, doesn't it?

And especially men, they find it hard to express their emotions. And I know myself, I have suffered past trauma. That really does affect you later. in life like you mentioned you don't realize until you start really looking at yourself and how how your how your past really does affect you now we have a lot in common because i use nLP like you can use nLP when you're getting fearful thoughts i normally push them away into the horizon and i erase them and even using my hands to erase the image outside of me really works well.

But hypnosis is so, so powerful for programming our minds. But also, I use breathwork twice a week. I do 45 minutes twice a week and little bits through the day as well. And that's great for getting rid of all of those trapped emotions. So I really know how powerful the work is what you're doing, Jackie. And it's wonderful actually to hear you say that, Mark, because that's exactly, the tools from NLP, from hypnosis, from the breathwork that I am taking back in. Because one of the issues that I see within the construction industry is that we're waiting to someone's in crisis mode before we're doing anything about it.

And yes, talking to people when they're in that state and really, raising awareness and reducing the stigma around it is great. But as we all know, being aware of something doesn't mean you automatically do anything about it. Because let's say we're all aware that driving over the speed limit is illegal. However, how many of us continue to do it? So awareness, yes, get it out there, great. But for me, we have to take the proactive, preventative action. take it back to the start to stop people getting to that crisis mode.

And that, to me, starts with what's up here. This complex piece of kit that's sitting on top of your shoulders, understanding how the mind works, giving you some very simple information, tools and techniques to understand it. And like you say, those simple little things, pushing thoughts away, using your body, physically getting involved with it, can really, really stop you're going down that rabbit hole and ending up in that really dark place that you don't want to be. That's really interesting because it's when you believe those thoughts

as though they're real and then you really go into that negative story and that's when it doesn't feel good. But if you can learn to just observe their thoughts and just realise then They're just thoughts. They have no power. They're not real. And I just literally push them away. You can even change the colour. So if they're colourful, you can turn the colour down of the black and white.

And if the image is big in your mind, push it away. So it becomes really small. And then I just literally put my hand out and erase it. It really does help. Little things like that really, really help me to continue. my mind and to control my thoughts. Yeah. No, it's true. Because anything when you're in that and the thought and those worries and that anxiety that you're imagining something that hasn't even happened yet and

you're in it, that picture is usually right here in front of you. It's big and it's bold. So yeah, pushing it away, making it small, turning, making it black and white, turn the colour out, turn the sound down, push it away. And I usually make it into a little crumb and then just flick it away. I just erase it with my hand like that and it does clear it out of your awareness. And sometimes they come back again, but I find the more you do it, it's like the thoughts over time, gradually, you don't get an emotional response to them and they fade over time. But it's an ongoing journey. It's still a battle some days, Jackie.

So the stigma around mental health affects individuals. individuals in various fields, including construction. How can we break down these barriers and encourage construction workers to seek help without fear of judgment or repercussions? I think that many of a, probably off a certain age, or maybe all ages, to be honest, when somebody says the word mental health, everybody goes, oh, because they think mental illness, you know, that. It is mental illness. And when I was growing up, it certainly was that, no, you were considered at best, a bit weird. You know, if somebody said, oh, and they usually termed, we're termed, no, they're mental. So it's there.

We have to deal with it. But rather than try and chip away at it, which, to be honest, is going to take forever. Because I'll tell you a little bit of a story here. So if you haven't already guessed from my accent, I'm from Northern Ireland. And if you've watched the, there's a series on, I don't know if it's over yet, called Once Upon a Time in Northern Ireland on the BBC, and it goes through the troubles, the 30 years of what was termed the troubles in Northern Ireland. I grew up during that time.

And during that time, nobody came to Northern Ireland. It was a no-go area. No surprise, who wanted to go somewhere where there's bombs going off, people were getting killed. And for a long time, that was the stigma attached to Northern Ireland. You just didn't go there. And back in 2019, I was going back home to visit the family. And a friend of mine, she had never been to Northern Ireland. So I said, well, why don't you come along with me? I'll see my family. And then, well, I'll take you around some of the sites. And they're beautiful. The County Anthem Coast Road is one of the most beautiful drives in the world.

It is renowned for that. And there's a giant's causeway, a caravan, a reed, brook bridge. There's some beautiful sites that growing up were just places she went to see. So off we went, I took her there, and driving round. And to be honest, I was absolutely stunned during most of that trip. Because those places that I'd grown up with and I'd visited the child and for over the years that were sort of wet, there was Northern Ireland after all, windy, barren lands. escapes, let's say, we're full of people. I mean, hordes of people, not just one or two, hordes.

I thought, what's going on here? Don't get me wrong, it was great to see people back in Northern Ireland, but this, this was just unheard of. And finally, and I should have realised this, but I would have my head down working for many, many years. But what I realized, all those places that I was taking my friends, it were just nice places to see were actually the, um, the set locations for the Game of Thrones and I had taken inadvertently taken my friend on our own private tour of the Game of Thrones set locations

and that's why all those people were there. So why am I telling that story? Well, as I said for a long time, North and Islands would have seen as a no-go area because of the troubles. And the images of the troubles are still there. The murals on the wall, the peace walls, there's a lot of stuff that's still there.

But it's been overtaken. by that much more positive image, Game of Thrones, and hordes of people are, hordes of people, are going to Northern Ireland now because of Game of Thrones. And what I say now is if we in the business world, especially in the construction world, don't take responsibility for reframing mental health, it'll be like Northern Ireland during the troubles,

where everyone knows about it, there's a lot of talk, but no one's going there and nothing changes. and for me the thing is we all have mental health. It's exactly the same as physical health. I think everyone at some point has good or bad mental health and we all suffer with it at some point and it's really important. We all know how to look after it to the best of our abilities. But there are tools that really do help out there.

and we should never, ever, ever, ever suffer alone, never suffering silence. Some may argue that implementing mental health initiatives in the construction industry is costly and time-consuming. How would you address this concern? There's a quote that I do love by Confucius. Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. And I think that's what we've done with mental health. I say that we know we all have it. We'll all suffer at some point, as you say as well.

But to me, it's actually putting, it is simple. It's easy. It's about putting the human back into the work, putting people at the core of organisations. And just being decent human beings. No, treating people with respect, kindness, getting to know them, good communication, rather than waiting.

Because if you're dealing with a crisis, yes, certainly, it is costly and it is time consuming. But if you look at it in the proactive stage, by giving people those very tools that we've talked about, giving them the information about how the brain works, how breathing helps you. Those are not expensive tools. And everybody has a brain. Everybody has to breathe. So just giving simple tools, that is not a costly or time-consumption. exercise. And while you're giving that to the individual, because it's not, as much as I say,

we need to give people the tools to support their own well-being, because we all, I'm sure, want to feel in control of ourselves. So while the individual has those tools, the organisation then needs to look at its own structure and its policies and its strategies. But as I say, I'm talking just about being decent human beings, treating people, talking to people, good communication, good engagement. And that, to me, is, and a lot of people may call them the soft skills. And the soft skills are usually the most difficult ones to do. But to me, that is all it is. It is just treating people with kindness, respect, communicating with them, getting to know them.

And surely workers with better mental health and health are going to perform better as well. So it makes sense in the long run, doesn't he? How do you think prioritising mental health in the construction industry would positively impact overall productivity and the bottom line? Well, and this is another thing that I struggle with companies. I'm thinking, no, happy, healthy people work better, function better, and are more productive. I was just saying that. What's your good link into the next question? And so, and it's known that there are probably around happy, healthy people, probably around 20% more productive.

And organizations that have highly engaged employees are actually 23% more profitable than their competitors who don't have. have that. For me, it's a win-win situation. And it's not a cost, it's an investment. No, for every pound the company will invest in the mental health and well-being of its employees. At the moment, they're getting probably £5.60 back. So it's just over a five-to-one return on investment. Because my thought on this is because there is a compelling business case And it's not just the financial one. If somebody has mental health problems, per well-being, whatever, they're off work

because sickness, absenteeism is rising, present-teism is rising. The number of people in the UK in construction off with anxiety, stress or depression, 917,000 people. And what does that cost the industry? Whereas if people were, if they were more proactive, and preventative, because you're also losing the knowledge as well as that financial cost.

So if you're not investing in it, you know, you're losing your best people. You're losing productivity. Attentioning you could lose your reputation and work. And whatever way you look at it, the bottom line is that you lose. And what's the cost of that to the industry? In your opinion, Jackie, how important is leadership commitment in driving, productive mental health initiatives within the construction industry? Well, I think like any organisation, culture starts at the top.

Whatever is happening there, that culture that the leaders are displaying is what rolls down to the bottom. So it's very much, and we can, a lot of companies, we can all talk a good talk, but we have to walk the talk. You have to display what it is they want back. And that's where I was saying about that, you know, the communication, the kindness, respect. When the employees can see that the leaders actually do care about them, then there's buy-in. When the employees can see that they can trust the leaders, that they are looking after them, then there's buy-in, then there's engagement.

And people then start to feel happier and healthier. There was a report recently that stated that 40% of employees go to work, frightened, stressed because of, you know, can't meet a deadline or something the boss has said or don't get on with their boss. And that's no way to live. You're not going to be performing at your best if that is happening. So very much the leader sets, the vision, the mission, the values, the goals, but then they have to walk it. they're the ones providing the resources. And to me, investing in mental health and well-being is a win-win. Your employees feel better.

The company does better. I agree. And it's such important work that you're doing, Jackie. Now, I know people can reach out to you. Who do you support? Who should reach out to you, Jackie? Anyone in the construction industry? whether that's from the CEO, the C-suite, HR directors, employees themselves.

Whoever would like to know more need some support, please reach out. I would encourage anyone in the construction industry who can make that decision to go to www.com.com. That's www.com contactjackie.com. That's contact jacky.com. Jackie, I have thoroughly enjoyed having a conversation with you. Thank you so much for being my guest today. Thank you, Mark.

It's been a pleasure. The pleasure's been. Thanks for listening to Business Innovators Radio. To hear all episodes featuring leading industry influencers and trendsetters, visit us online at businessinnovatorsradio.com today.