Business Innovators Radio - Jamal Ahmed – King Of Data Protection – Mark Stephen Pooler

Episode Date: September 8, 2024

Jamal Ahmed, dubbed the “King of Data Protection” by the BBC, is a renowned global expert and passionate advocate for data privacy rights. With a pragmatic approach, he helps governments, SMEs and multinational corporations achieve compliance with privacy regulations through easy-to-implement solutions. He is a trusted media commentator and appears regularly on BBC News, ITV News and Sky News. His writing has also been featured in numerous globally renowned publications such as The Independent, The Guardian, Foreign Policy and Euronews.https://kazient.co.uk/Source: https://businessinnovatorsradio.com/jamal-ahmed-king-of-data-protection-mark-stephen-pooler

Welcome to Business Innovators Radio, featuring industry influencers and trendsetters, sharing proven strategies to help you build a better life right now. Welcome to Brilliant Business TV, conversations with leading experts in business. I am your host, Mark Stephen Pula. We have a wonderful guest today, Jamal Hamid, all about data protection and privacy. I'm really looking forward to conversation with Jamal today. We are streaming live on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn, YouTube. We're also on the E360 TV network going out to Apple, Fire, Android, Rockoo and many more. We're also on business innovators radio network, USA Radio, sorry, USA Global Radio, Television and Radio Network as well. And we're also streaming through MSPNewsGlobal.com. So let's bring in our incredible guest, Jamal Ahmed. Jamal, welcome to Brilliant's Business TV.

Hey, Mark. Thanks for having me. I'm really, really looking forward to a conversation with you, Jamal. So let's get started with our first question. Jamal, you've earned the title of King of Data Protection, but your journey to the top wasn't traditional. Can you share what initially sparked your passion for data privacy and how your unconventional path has shaped your approach to helping others succeed. Yeah, great question. So my path isn't traditional in that I didn't go to law school and become a lawyer and then go down the legal route, as you might see other people doing in the data privacy industry. In fact, I didn't

really know what I wanted to do when I was younger. I went to law school and then after two weeks I quit and I was like, this is not just for me. And I pursued a business because the practical element stood out for me. And then I graduated, got myself a job as a business consultant. And one of the first things I came across there was actually data protection and helping business owners to comply with their requirements under the UK Data Protection Act 1998. It wasn't a major part of my job, but it was there and it was something that I thought was quite interesting. And in fact, I just seemed to be really good at helping businesses comply with that over the other colleagues and all of that work came to me. And then I moved into compliance and I went into the financial services.

and three to five years down the line, three to five years down the line, I woke up one day. And in fact, I woke up many days thinking, I just can't be bothered to go and do another day of work. But obviously, you've got bills to pay. You have to go and do those things. And the reason I was feeling like that was because I was doing a mundane role that was adding no value to society, that was adding no value to the world. And it's a job that anybody could do. Like you didn't need to be a graduate. it, you didn't need to have all of these years of professional training and everything that

I invested in myself in actually growing and developing, I couldn't see that being served. I couldn't see my potential actually coming to light here. And I was just like, anyone can do this. And it's so boring. What I'm doing is the same thing day in, day out. And every Sunday night, I used to dread Monday mornings because I'd have to do another week of that. I wasn't paid particularly well. It's not anything to complain about. I'm grateful for what I was paid. But it wasn't enough money for me to do whatever I wanted to do when I wanted to do it without having to go and worry about things, without having to spend, you know, six months saving up to go on a holiday once here. And so I was very frustrated.

And when everything kind of came to this amazing epiphany moment was when my wife fell pregnant. Now, we've been trying to have a baby for a long time and we're facing lots of challenges. So after about seven years into my marriage, we received this amazing news that my wife's pregnant. And that really made me stand up and think, okay, I'm about to become a father. I'm going to bring a baby into the world. What kind of a father do I want to be? And I was like, you know, I want to be an inspirational father. I want my child to believe they can do whatever they want to do.

And I want them to fulfill their potential. And I was like, but the best way to do that is to lead by example. If I'm going to provide for them and I'm going to provide a role model, I'm going to provide all of these things, then I have to start living that life myself. I can't start living a lion. and I can't be a hypocrite and tell them to do one thing when my whole life I've been doing this other thing. And so I started thinking about what is it that I really want to do? Who do I want to become? And what do I want my legacy and my impact to be on the world? And someone who's

always been passionate about human rights, someone who's always been advocating for the right thing, it made sense for me to go and revisit something that I really enjoyed doing. And around this time, Europe was going through a major transformation when it comes to protecting people's and the general data protection regulation, the GDPR was coming into force. And the more I looked into this, the more fascinated I became. And what I found was that my non-legal background actually was an advantage to an industry where traditionally it was middle-aged, middle-class, male lawyers, they needed fresh perspective because businesses, they know what the law says.

They can Google that for free. But they need help actually operationalizing that in a way that's pragmatic and practical. And the lawyers, they struggle with that because all they do is red lines and have contract negotiations. They don't actually know how to take the requirements and help the business to put that into practice. And that's where I came in. I kind of became the bridge between the legal compliance and the actual operationalization of that and speaking to the business and what the business needs to do operationally. And I found that my non-legal perspective gave a fresh perspective, which allowed me to see the complexities a little bit more differently.

and it created opportunities for innovation that traditional legal rules kind of overlooked. And as I went through this, I found that there was other friends and other family members that were going through similar struggles. I found legal professionals that were going to similar struggles and understanding the pressures, understanding the toll it can have on you

when you work in a toxic environment, when there is no fulfillment in your role when you're not showing up in the world, help me to show others, how they could also break into data privacy. So much so that in 2021, I started the Privacy Prose Academy. And with that unique perspective and the determination, it's allowed me not just to master data privacy,

but also empower others to do the same. And since then, I've had a number one bestselling book, The EasyP Easy Guide to the GDPR, the most successful book in data protection history. And the joke is written by someone who is not even a lawyer. The BBC called me the king of data protection. I've consulted for many, many, many, Futsi 100 companies, including KPMG, the Big 4, PWC, Deloic, KYC.

I'm an international keynote speaker. And I've also got the number one data privacy podcast, which is a privacy pros podcast, ranked 2.5% out of all of the podcasts globally by listen notes. So all of these amazing things have been happening. And then the media started reaching out. So I'm also approached as a media commentator. And I speak regularly on TV, in radio, as well as in print, offering my opinions on data privacy challenges and issues. And so all of this has helped me to position myself as somebody

who businesses can approach to find effective pragmatic solutions, but also people who want to become world-class privacy professionals can come to the Privacy Proz Academy, and we help them with the things that they can't find anywhere else, which is the practical skills. How do they gain the competency? And one of the biggest things that holds people back is nobody wants to hide them because they don't have the experience, and because they don't have the experience, they can't get hired. So it becomes this catch-22 situation, and we found a great way of breaking through that following our five steps that we follow at the Privacy Pros Academy. And what all of this has really shown me and taught me is that anybody can achieve anything they want, and anyone can be a world-class

privacy professional as long as they have the right mindset and the right guidance. And that's exactly what we do at the Privacy Pros Academy, is help people to develop that growth mindset and we guide them through the journey where they go from, for example, an Uber driver to becoming a world-class privacy professional and working with some of those Futsi 100, Fortune 100 companies as well. That's amazing, taking people from Uber drivers to a successful career in data protection. And congratulations on the success of your book as well. Legal professionals often face immense pressure, feeling trapped in a cycle of long hours and little recognition. How does your easy-peasy approach not only simplify GDPR, but also empower these professionals to reclaim their time and confidence?

Yeah, so my network, my friends, my acquaintances in the actual legal industry, and who are often practicing as lawyers, they get paid decent money, but they never have the time to enjoy that money. And what happens is they have to work such long hours that they get these feelings of burnout. They're always tired. They don't have energy to do the things that they want to do. And when they think about it, they are actually pretty miserable in where they are, because all of this time, they've been trying to live up to standards of what other people

have told them success looks and feels like. But now people are actually opening their eyes and they're like, hey, maybe I don't want to work such long hours. Because if you look at one of the biggest regrets people have before they die is the fact that they'd had to work so much. And so what they want to do is they're looking for work-life balance where they can actually enjoy the time they have, enjoy this time with their children, enjoy all of the things that they want to do without feeling burnt out because of pressures of work. And the other challenge legal professionals have is they feel underappreciated. And so one of the things that we help our mentees with is how do they get that work-life balance by getting a

role as a privacy professional. But anyone can get a role as a privacy professional if you can have a legal background. What we're looking for is people who are appreciated by the organizations that are valued. And to do that, you need to become a world-class privacy professional. And well-class privacy professionals are rewarded and companies really value them and they appreciate the value that they bring to the table. And this value that they bring to the table being appreciated helps them to make sure that they can genuinely understand what the business needs and work with the business to guide them towards actually protecting their reputation, earning the trust of their customers, whilst protecting their data and also staying away from fines. Now, what's really helpful is how we break down

the complexities of the GDP into digestible, actionable steps. And that not only makes it easier to understand, but also practical to implement, which removes that intimidation factor. And on the program, when we actually talk about GDP, we don't just want to help people understand the theory. What we focus on is the practical implementation of it so that professionals are empowered to regain the control over their careers and ultimately their lives again. And what we want to do is to help people to live the life that they truly deserve. So, reduce their working hours, making sure that they gain that professional recognition that they deserve and restoring their work-life balance so they can actually enjoy their life rather than get to 60, 70, 80,

look back and regret all of the missed opportunities. Work-life balance is so, so important and being appreciated as well is so-so-important. You've guided people from all walks of life, including those with no legal background, into thriving careers in data privacy. Could you share the story of someone whose life dramatically changed through your program and what their journey can teach others who are considering a similar path?

Yeah, let's take an example of somebody who is actually legally qualified. So I have one of my mentees, a lovely young lady called Melinda. And she'd actually gone to law school. She'd picked up all of her legal qualifications and she was even in a data privacy role. The problem was she was in a role with a company that didn't have much budget,

that wasn't one of your top tier companies, and she was actually struggling to get a role. And so she kept applying for role after all, after all, doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different outcome. And that was really destroying her confidence. It was destroying her self-esteem. And she wasn't able to live the life that she wanted or that she deserved.

There was no professional recognition. there was no appreciation of her work. She was just swamped with all of these tasks, and people wasn't even paying attention to the things that she was asking them to do, and she kind of almost ignored but expected to get on with all of the work. And so eventually she decided she wanted to do something different. She joined the academy, and we worked on five things. The first thing we worked on was her mindset,

making sure that she understands the value that she brings to the table, having that growth mindset, having that abundance mindset, and having that hunger again, believing in, herself. So we helped her to gain and develop that confidence again. Next, it was about becoming a subject matter expert, right? Anyone can read the books. Anyone can pass the exams. But when you open your mouth, people don't just want to hear you spewing out or regurgitating large passages of legal text. Like I said, anyone can get that for free. What they want to know is, what does that mean for us? What do we actually need to do? What can we do? What can we do? And how do we approach this?

So we focus on the subject matter expertise, but it's all one thing being, able to talk the talk. You need to be able to walk the walk as well. And so we help to develop the practical skills and the operational know-how of how to take the requirements of the GDPR and other legal requirements into pragmatic solutions that the business can actually operate. The business can actually operationalize. And also, it's important to work on her personal brand. So we really focus on helping her to show up on LinkedIn and other places as an expert. And the moment you start showing up as an expert, and you start focusing on your personal brand, people start paying attention. People start helping you with your mission too, whereas previously they was ignoring you.

And people want to be around you because they feel like you're giving off such a positive vibe. And they want to be around that. And they also want to deliver along with you because everybody wants to be on the winning team, right? So we helped her work on her personal branding. And then we embedded her into a community. One of the things that legal professionals and privacy professionals often find is that they're quite isolated, they're quite lonely, and they feel like they're only going through this and they have this imposter syndrome where they're scared of being found out for not knowing

absolutely everything. And so when you go and join the community, you find that people are going through similar challenges and everyone's there for each other and you can actually be open about those challenges, you can figure out solutions. And through that community, you find meaning, you find connection and that really helps you to show up as your best self. And so what Melinda was able to do was not only successfully get a new role, but also get opportunities to speak in the media, get opportunities to appear as a guest on speaking appearances like podcasts, a little bit like your channel over here, Mark. And she's also able to significantly increase her salary, which means that she's now able to enjoy the work-life balance so much more. She's in a role where she's actually respected, and she's actually having a massive impact because they will. work with multiple companies around the world and all of those things have data privacy considerations

and all of those companies that they work with will have individuals like me and you whose data is now being protected thanks to Melinda and the value that she's bringing to her company. I love how you build people up Jamal and it's like every part of the business, even social media and branding and becoming an expert. So it's not. like you're just teaching them the skill of data privacy. You're actually taking them through every level of what it takes to be a successful business owner, which is absolutely incredible. Data privacy can seem incredibly overwhelming, especially to those who feel they're not

tech savvy or are new to the field. What do you say to people who don't their ability to master GDPR and become recognized experts in their profession. Yeah, you know what? This fear is actually quite real. And I would describe myself as somebody who once had those exact fears. I was intimidated by technology. I didn't have a technical background, just like I didn't have a legal background.

And so for those people who don't consider themselves to be tech savvy, this can immediately, I've got this really flying fly in the office. Give me one second. Can you ask me that again, please? Of course. That's privacy can seem incredibly overwhelming, especially to those who feel they're not tech savvy or are new to the field. What do you say to people who doubt their ability to master GDPR

and become recognized experts in their profession? Yeah, I completely resonate with that because I was somebody who used to consider myself not to be tech savvy. And I was like GDP, all of this technology coming, especially now with artificial intelligence and you've got all of these privacy enhancing technologies. Oh my gosh, I don't even know how to do coding. Is that going to be a challenge? Is that going to really hold me back in my career? And so anyone who's not tech savvy, I know that it feels like, can I do this?

And actually what I found is that you don't need to be very tech savvy to be somebody who can actually add value to organizations because you're going to work with people who are tech savvy. And those people who are tech savvy, they don't understand the operational requirements or the legal considerations that they have to think about. And so what I do is I help them to understand the technical requirements and the legal requirements. And then they will then translate that into their data architecture, into their coding and into their other things. Essentially, as long as I can understand and I can help my clients to understand the differences between privacy by design and privacy by default and the things that they need to think about, then I don't need to be that tech savvy person.

And whether you're tech savvy or not, it doesn't matter because at the academy, we break everything down and we focus on learning about technology, but learning about how GDPR interacts with that technology, and we make it so easy, easy that even somebody like me, over the space of a very short period of time, can actually go and talk about facial recognition technology. I can actually go and talk about how we balance AI with privacy. And that means that the GDPR doesn't require you to be a technical expert or a legal genius. And our method simplifies the process by focusing on the practical application and real world scenarios. And so once you bring those things together, you'll find that even getting certifications such as the certified information privacy technologists through our easy-peasy methodology actually gives you the confidence and the know-how to be able to navigate those challenges.

from a technical point of view, as well as a legal point of view. Well, everyone wants an easy, easy way of doing things, and that's what you're known for, which is incredible. Beyond just offering training, you've built a thriving global community of data privacy professionals. How just being part of this community and having access to ongoing mentorship play a crucial role in someone's success in this field? Thanks, Mark. You know, I think when I think back, And look at how far we've come. And if you were to ask me, what is the single most thing I'm proud of?

It would have to be the amazing community that we've created. We have people from all over the world. We have people from all different professions at all different skills levels. We've got people who have graduated from Harvard. We've got people who are actually commissioners, the people that work for the regulators. And so bringing this community, the diversity, the inclusivity and the supportive collaborative environment, what that does, it really nurtures a professional's growth. And when you're part of a like-minded group of professionals, not only does that provide ongoing support, but it also inspires

you and those sharing of best practices really help everyone in the community. And because privacy is a constantly evolving field, there's always lots of different challenges and so many updates. And when you've got people from different industries, from different backgrounds, from different skill levels, sharing and contributing to that, you feel like you're invincible because you have the power of the community. And the best thing about our community is everybody wants everyone else to do well as well, because we recognize there's so much work to be done. And there's plenty of opportunities for everyone. And this is the one thing that actually surprises people when they most, when they join the academy, is just how supportive the community is. And I can't take any credit for that because I'm just

a member of the community is the hundreds of people that we have from across the globe, all like-minded people working together to create a world where every woman, every man and every child, there is more freedom over the personal information that makes this community so special. There's definitely, definitely power in community. Now, Jamal, I know that people are going to be interested in what you do. Who should connect with you? Who should reach out to you?

Who do you really think you would love to? get in touch with you and just share a little bit about how people can connect with you. Yeah, I mean, I would really love anyone who's thinking of transitioning to a data privacy career, anyone who's already in a data privacy career and really wants to become a recognized well-class data privacy professional who wants to, you know, really go that, go forward with their career and become someone that's actually making an impact rather than someone just going through the motions and doing the usual case studies and doing subject access reviews to get in touch. Because one of the things, are limitedly who we don't work with.

We don't work with people who just want to get certified. And we don't work with people who just want to get into privacy for the money. What I'm looking for for people who come and join our community is people who actually want to be world-class privacy professionals that are sought after that actually want to help businesses manage that data responsibly. so the business gets the utility and the business can continue doing a great job, whilst at the same time upholding the trust of those individuals who have trusted the business with their information, thereby creating a world where every woman, every man and every child enjoys freedom over their personal information.

So anyone that's interested in developing themselves, anyone that's interested in becoming a high achiever and that wants to work with the best companies in the world, those are the ambitious individuals that I want to hear from. And the best way to connect with me is to go on LinkedIn, type in KMJ Ahmed or Jamal Ahmed, data privacy, and I should be very easy to find. You can also listen to our podcast, Privacy Pros podcast. It's available on Google, Apple, Spotify, wherever you get your podcast. And I've also recently started a YouTube channel, which is Privacy Pros. You can search that on YouTube, and you should find come across our channel.

And also, my international bestselling book, The EasyP Easy Guide to the GDPer, you can find that on Amazon or on our website, www.w.bentrbuk.com. Best GPDR book.com. Best GDPR book.com. That's right, Mark. Perfect, Jamel. Jamel, thank you so much for being my guest today.

I thoroughly enjoyed having a conversation with you. Thanks for having me. It's been an absolute pleasure. The pleasure's been all mine. Thank you, everyone for joining us for Brilliant Business TV, conversations with leading experts. Thanks for listening to Business Innovators Radio. To hear all episodes featuring leading industry influencers and trendsetters,

visit us online at businessinnovators.com today.