Business Innovators Radio - John Allen – Marketing Strategist and Coach – On How to Attract and Convert Ideal Prospects

Episode Date: July 12, 2023

With over 35 years of experience, John Allen specializes in helping overwhelmed small business owners grow their client base using trust-based conversations. Throughout the show, John shares remarkable success stories, including transforming a heavy truck salesman’s income from $36,000 to $104,000 in just four months using referrals. He also discusses how a videographer increased his rates from $800 to $5,000 by targeting a specific niche market.John Allen’s expertise in trust-based conversations has led to powerful results for his clients. By implementing simple strategies, the heavy truck salesman was able to connect with potential clients after hours and gain referrals from within the community. Similarly, the videographer was able to charge higher rates by targeting specific professionals and showcasing the benefits of their services through captivating videos. John emphasizes the importance of building trust and rapport with clients before attempting to sell any products or services.This episode is a game-changer for small business entrepreneurs looking to transform their client base. John’s insights and success stories provide valuable inspiration and practical strategies that can be implemented immediately. Whether you’re a struggling salesperson, a videographer, or any other small business owner, this episode offers valuable insights on how to grow your client base effectively.Listeners can learn more about John Allen and his expertise by visiting his website at www.allensmallbusinesscoaching.com. They can also reach out to him via email at www.allensmallbusinesscoaching.com or by phone at 1-519-520-5662.Join Nina Hershberger and John Allen in this engaging conversation as they delve into the power of trust-based conversations and how they can transform your business. Remember, success lies in serving, not selling.MegaBucks Radio with Nina Hershbergerhttps://businessinnovatorsradio.com/megabucks-radio-with-nina-hershbergerSource: https://businessinnovatorsradio.com/john-allen-marketing-strategist-and-coach-on-how-to-attract-and-convert-ideal-prospects

Welcome to Megabox Radio. Conversations with successful entrepreneurs, sharing their tips and strategies for success, real-world ideas that can put Megabox in your bank account. Here's your host, Nina Hirshberger. Well, today's episode is going to be a game changer for small business entrepreneurs. I have a special guest joining me, John Allen. John and I have known each other for several years. I'm inspired and motivated by his amazing success stories that we're going to talk about.

John is an expert in helping overwhelmed and small business owners grow their client base. With over 35 years, he is an expert in trust-based conversation. In today's show, John's going to take us through some fascinating transformations. I can hardly wait to hear all the details. He took a heavy truck salesman in Calgary up in Canada from 36,000 to an astonishing 104,000 in just four months using referrals. He saved a half-hunter from a canceled contract. And then there was a videographer that skyrocketed at his rates from 800 to $1,200 for a 30-second commercial

to $4,000 and $5,000 by charging what he was truly worse. So, John, welcome to today's show. I am very excited to have you. Thanks, I really appreciate the opportunity to be here and to share with your guests. What would you like to talk about first? Let's talk about that salesman who increased his income from $36,1004. Tell me what you did.

I love specifics. Basically, the guy's name was Greg. He was a good friend of mine. I'd known him for years. I met him when we both lived in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan. He moved out to Calgary, Alberta, and got into the heavy truck sales. We were talking one day, and he said, you know, his draw was 36,000 a year. And he said he's having problems, you know, making the 36 grand.

so he could, you know, cover his commitments to the company. I asked him about what he was doing, and I found out that he was dealing in big dump trucks. There was a lot of construction going on in Calgary, and they were from a couple different athletic groups. They weren't native Canadians. So I said to him, hey, these people run their trucks all day if the wheels aren't turning, they're not making any money.

So rather than trying to have them come in to see you during normal business hours, talk to them after hours. And when you talk to one, ask them for referrals. They know everybody in that community. And if they know you like and trust you, they're going to refer you. So this is what he started doing. The other thing he started was one of his clients, the truck broke down in Red Deer, which is about 90 miles from Calgary. I said to him, deliver the truck to him. The guy's not expecting it.

If you drive that truck up to him, you know, you're going to be miles ahead of your competition. So this is what he did. He started going out of his way to meet these people on their terms, not on you've got to come in during my hours. That's what made all the difference in the world to him. I'm just asking, do any of your other friends need trucks? that was to me it was just plain simple

no thinking about it but to him obviously it was a monumentous breakthrough and to his client yeah that's really special so I'm going to go back to one thing you said so most salesmen want to deal during

the day and what you're saying the very first thing you said is talk to them in the evening when they're not driving is that what I heard you say right you know in the evenings on the weekends you know he was single so I said what's your Sunday like he said I sit around the apartment board out of my head don't talk to these people have a coffee with them on a Sunday see what they can do now he could deliver the vehicles so I said it's entirely up to you but the more you do for them show them that you care about them and not

just the almighty dollar is where you're going to get the referrals, and they just skyrocketed for them. Well, you know, so many people, and we hear the term referrals, of course, but most people in business don't have a formal referral, so you, and that was a very simple strategy. Just ask. It wasn't like you had to have a three-point referral program or anything. Simply ask, I'm sure as soon as, I mean, even if they didn't buy, Maybe I don't know how he got his lead, so I don't know if, you know, was the truck a certain age or whatever, but even if they didn't buy, he could still say, do you know anybody who might be interested in buying a truck?

That's all he did. He went to see these people because the majority of them were all driving trucks. So he said, who else do you know that drives a truck that needs good service? You know, wants a dependable vehicle and, you know, all the rest of the stuff to go with selling a vehicle. and he said the people basically fell in love with him. Now, here's a guy that cares about us. Again, like I said, and not just the almighty daughter. He's willing to go out of his way to help us so we can make money.

And I go and see him in the evenings on the weekends. That made all the difference in the world to these guys. Okay, so he did go see them. It wasn't just a phone conversation. If he had a phone number, he'd call them, but he'd also go see them. And they had their local community events. He would go to one of their community events and talk to the people that he knew and get them to introduce them to other people there. And he just walked right through it.

Was he the only heavy truck salesperson at that local event? Yep. none of the others, even in the dealership he worked in, there was quite a few other sales reps. They couldn't be bothered. You know, if they can't come in and see me during my working hours, I'm not going to go talk to them. Well, that's a really, really good advice. So, and that goes back to your trust-based conversations, too, isn't it, the one thing that you really focus on? Right.

You know, if you, you know, I'll use you as an example, Naina. If I called up and said, hi, I'm John Allen. Have you got, you know, what's your biggest problem in your business? You've never heard of me. You've never talked to me. What's your first thought? Who is this guy? Yeah.

I'm not going to tell you. There's no trust built up there. There's no, like, there's nothing built up there. But if I call you up and said, hi, Nina, it's John Allen. I'm just giving you a quick call. You know, would you be open to possibly hearing some new strategies or different ideas that work around your marketing business? Would you be open to something like that?

Sure. I would. Now, what that did was I didn't say you've got problems or anything else. What I did was, are you open to it? If you are, that's great. If you're not, that's fine. You're not there to chase anybody. You're not there to proud beat the heck out of them.

You're simply asking if they're open to listing. Because you only want to talk to people that want to talk to you. You know, I don't know about you, but I was guilty of, as are many people trying to educate the world and show them how great, grand and wonderful and smart I was. That doesn't work with a hoot. You know, people want to know that they could trust you, know like you can trust you, and the light part doesn't even come in to start with. They have to trust you before they're even going to talk to you.

In your experience, what is the most common challenge the businesses face when they try to do those referrals, try to leverage? Let's say, I mean, we're going to switch an industry to maybe a chiropractor. So obviously he is not or she is not going out to a local event or whatever or, well, I suppose they could, but they're coming in. How could they best use referrals in that business? You've heard it and so of I, and so is everybody in your audience. Who do you know that?

And 99 times out of 100, the person you're talking to says, I don't know anybody. Right? So now, if I was a chiropractor, I would be going to network meetings, and I would be talking about the benefits of getting your back crunched or, you know, getting fixed up. The other thing I would also be doing to get referrals is I would go to the local industries around them because you know as well as I do, Naina, that sick time costs businesses a lot of money. And if the company can help reduce the sick time by just letting that person talk, say at lunchtime or coffee break, cut down a lot on the company sick time.

A, the company looks like they're really good because they care about the employees. The employees are saying, hey, these individuals come in and spoke to us. They weren't trying to ram it down my throat. They said, if you're interested, here's a brochure, you know, reach out. That is something that I would suggest to them.

You know, I'm a real fan of newsletters. And I think businesses don't use those as much as they should or could because you could even talk about referrals in a newsletter. I'm thinking even your heavy truck guy, salesman. In fact, I remember a story years ago. I used to work at the University of Notre Dame. And I was in the purchasing department, and the reason I was there is because my daughter could go their tuition-free. I quit the day after she got her diploma. Anyway, all the salesmen would come to my office, you know, doing exactly what you're saying.

Hi, I'm so-and-so, what business do you have for me, you know, kind of thing. And one day I asked one of the salesmen, I said, tell me who the number one salesman in your company is. And he said, well, it's this lady down in Florida. I said, what does she do different than everybody else? where she has this goofy newsletter. And so it goes back, John, to what you're talking about is no like and trust. Just showing up all the time, they might not need a truck right now. They might not need a chiropractor right now.

They might not need whatever, whatever, whatever. But just staying in touch like that through even a printed, I'm a fan of printed newsletters is really, really important. Do you have any other thoughts about referrals before we go on? Because I'm really anxious to hear about some of these other stories. Again, basically referrals. And you could let people know that you build your business based on referrals so that it cuts down your other expenses so you can serve that.

Yeah, that's a great idea. So, all right, so let's go on. Let's talk about that. Let's talk about the videographer next. Tell me what you did with him or her. She was working actually out of New Jersey, and when I talked to her, she said, all you can charge is $800 to $1,200. And she was writing the script.

She was doing the photography of it. She was doing all of it, editing it and all that for $8 to $1,200. I said, hey, you're losing money quick. You're not making a dime. costing you. She agreed with me and I said to her what normally would it cost you by the time you did this. She had to hire a company to come in and do the videoing. So I said, what do those guys cost? She gave me the rate. I added up roughly and I said, well, right now you're into about $2,500 to $3,000 to make this 30-second commercial and you're only charging $8,200 to $1,200.

bucks. You're losing money. So she said, how can I charge more? That's all like even the experienced ones are, you know, guys with 25 years of experience are charging. And I said, too, who is your ideal prospect? And that's where she mentioned that rather than just doing local bands and symphonies, she wanted to work with professionals like dentists, caropactors, optometrists, and people like that. So I said, what? You need? need to do is go to a dentist, for example, that specializes in children's teeth. Do the video for them of all the benefits that little Johnny or little Susie is going to get from having their teeth fixed, straightened out and all the rest of it.

Because what mom or dad doesn't want their child to have the perfect smile, right? Everybody does. And the child's going to appreciate it later in life, hopefully. So anyway, she went to see this dentist that just specialized in children. And they were so excited that they paid them, I think, $4,000 or $4,500 for the 30-second commercial. And without her having to ask, they recommended an optometrist friend of theirs

who dealt with children having to wear glasses. Because what kid, and I grew up having to wear glasses, started when I was six years old, what kid appreciates being called four eyes and you know you got to keep these darn glasses and make sure you don't break them and lose them and all the rest of the stuff so the optometrists went through and they made a video showing kids having fun wearing glasses being able to do everything they were really happy they paid over five grand they were saying commercial but again it was The commercial was aimed at the kids and the parents.

So the parents... So actually what you were trying, what you were doing is you were saying, niche, niche down. So instead of going to anybody and everybody, find the ones who probably charged more. So wasn't your average dentist. It was the kids dentist. It was the, you know, and so that made a difference.

I made all the difference in the world because, you know, it was a specialty and I know all dentists will, most dentists will work on kids or, you know, adults or anybody, right? But there's very few of them I've found. I don't know about you, but that the kids aren't screaming when they're in there. So if they can make the child feel good about being there

but they'll cause them a whole lot of pain, what parent wants to see their kid come out smiling instead of screaming. No. What did she do with the 30-second commercial? What they did was he started showing it to various schools and to parents' groups. So what they did, and the other thing that he found was when the kids were happy with the dentist, a lot of times mom and dad would also change. because their whole thing in is, you know,

of little Johnny or little Susie really likes this guy or this gal, why don't I go there? As you're well aware, most people don't like dentists courtesy of the pain. Right. So what they did, and then they'd also go to parent-teacher meetings and different church meetings and what have you, and they just showed their little video. Okay, so I'm thinking of a parent-teacher meeting

at a school. How did it dent, because the commercial is kind of a, you know, it's a sales pitch, actually kind of thing. How in the world did they get the rights or ability to show something like that at a parent-teacher conference or event? Were they a sponsor? No, actually, when they went to the parent-teacher meetings like at the schools, what they did was they talked to the principal or whoever was in charge.

of setting up for the meeting, and they ask about kids with dental problems in school. And as you're well aware, most kids, when they're growing up, you know, they're starting to have, you know, they could have teeth problems or whatever. So they just said, could we show you a video that could help ease the children's, you know, fear of dentists and make it easier for the teachers and mom and dad to deal with?

They talked about the results that the kids get. It wasn't due to the, it was a commercial for the Tentist Office, right? But what they did more was they concentrated on the kids and how it was pain. Did they have a kind of looping on a television when at the event? Yep. What they do is they go in and, you know, they talk at the event of what it means to have good health, dental health for the kids, and they'd have their video playing. And especially if they, you know, a couple of the schools they went to had kids that had actually come in and got the work done.

So the mom and dads and the teacher were saying, well, yeah, gee, I know little Johnny or I know little Susie. And they were really happy about it because now they knew the people, right? And then they grew from there because now they see the kids in there they knew. So now my mom and dad, they see little Johnny or Susie having surprised. you might want to go see X, Y, Z dentist here because here's what they did for these guys. And their business really blossomed. It's an interesting concept. You're in Canada, I'm just trying to think down here in the United States.

I just, I mean, that's a very, very interesting concept that they were, that the school would allow. It sounded like they did a looping video on a television screen at the event. They must have been a sponsorship program involved in that. I think it would have. She was in New Jersey, so I'm not sure exactly what they did. But I know that the dentist was very happy about it, and the optometrist that did it for the glasses, but they did, they just followed the dentist late,

and they got into the same schools and everything. because kids nobody's meaner than kids and so the kids get picked on for being four-eyed and everything else and what they show the benefits of these kids having fun wearing glasses well the videographer that you worked with did he then give them ideas afterwards you know so he obviously had to be be a good storyteller because that's the secret of doing a 30-second commercial is that you get the hook in and you know you tell the story and call to action and stuff so he must have been a

terrific storyteller but then you don't want the commercial to just sit there how do you use it is really important yeah that's what she did like through some suggestions i had give it her that's where she suggested, like the dentist go to the PTA meetings, go to the churches, go to these various groups, and set it up. And the dentist is very agreeable to it. Actually, I believe it was his wife that was in charge of their marketing, and she sold him on the idea that they got to do it, and that's what they did. Cool.

All right, let's jump over. to the headhunter. Tell me how you salvaged that contract. That was actually interesting. I only worked with the guy, I believe, his name was Chris. He was out of Windsor, Ontario, and he was working with one of the major industries or businesses in Detroit. And for whatever reason, what his job was, the contract with them was, he was going out and helping their executives find other employment. They were downsizing, and he would help them, their executives, get other work. And for whatever reason, the vice president and his company called up and said,

we're canceling your contract. Send him a notice. I actually didn't even call them. Send him a notice and said, we're canceling your contract, effective whatever date in a week or so. You know, we're unhappy with your services. So he was having a fit. you know, there was a good contract for him.

So I said, rather than trying to deal with this guy over the phone, call up, make an appointment, go in, he apologized for doing something wrong, find out what had upset this VP about your services and see if there's any way that you can rectify it. So he was in and talking to the guy, and what it was, it turned out it was a miscommunication, between the VP's secretary and what this headhunter had actually said.

So when they got it straightened out, that's when that day before he left the office, the VP gave him a $75,000 contract, and a month or two later gave him another $75,000 contract. And I think within the next six, eight months, he got another $75,000 contract. And it was all because he took, up to time to go talk to this guy to see what the real issue was and to see whether how it could be

straightened out. In other words, he didn't hear the word no. He just, he thought, okay, or you suggested that he, you know, go in and really listen. Yeah, that's really smart. You know, and as you're aware, most people say, oh, I'll have canceled my contract. oh, well, you know, I've got to go find somebody. Well, before you do that, go see exactly why they are caught following your contract.

You could have screwed up. There's no doubt about it. You know, we're human, we sometimes do. But there's also, if you go in and talk to people and you're reasonable about it, they may give you a second chance. And that's what they did for this guy. Kind of goes back full circle to your trust-based conversations.

John, I know that you host group, I don't know if you call it group coaching or group mentoring or whatever, and there's real power in a group. So let's go into that and let's talk more about the trust base and how you encourage and how you mentor people to talk like that. Basically, one of the things that I do, Nina, for the group, and the group is just going to be starting up here shortly, is going to be, A, have them go through their pitch or whatever you want to call it. I don't even like to call it a pitch because as soon as you start that, excuse me, depending

on what you're in, people automatically put you in a box and you don't need to be in that box. The other thing is people, if you say, I'm a business coach, I help people get all kinds of new clients, you're automatically put in a box. They may or may not have had a good experience with a business coach, or the big thing is, I can't afford one, or what can you do for me? So in the comfortable conversations, what I teach people and share with people is to talk about them, make them feel important, make your conversation memorable to them so that when you're talking to them the next time is, hey, geez, I remember.

John or Ninah said this, I really want to know more. How many people, actually, and I know you've had many years in business, how many people do you have called up to say, hi, and I've got the greatest, grandest, most wonderful product you ever saw, you've got to buy it from me. I don't even know who the heck they are or what they got. So why would you even want to deal with them? And it's to teach people better ways to approach people, you know, either through cold call or even if they're a potential client or an actual client. If they're an actual client,

you know as well as I do that a lot of people spend more time looking for new people than they do working on the current clients that they have. What can you do to make that current client feel really special and really memorable? That's when you're going to get a lot more business and a whole lot cheaper than going out and trying to find new people. Give me some tips on how you would make those clients feel more special. Say it was you and I, for example, and you'd been a client for a while. Nina, you know, just giving you a quick call, you know, if there's any strategies or ideas we could come up with, may help you improve your business.

Would you be open to having a discussion on that? Okay. Or, you know, I call you up and say, how's your point? podcast going? You know, are you getting the results you want in your podcast? Maybe you could say, well, you know, I'm not getting as many listeners as of your life. Okay. Could it possibly be the topics you're choosing? Could it be the location? And I'm guessing here as we're talking, right? I'm just making this up as we go. Yes, of course. And, you know, but what you're demonstrating is the power of questions.

You know, just being able to ask questions, getting somebody to think, you know, have you thought about this? I always like to say, what is it that you used to do, that you no longer do, that works so well, and why aren't you doing it still? And everybody has, oh, yeah, and they tell the story of that. just having a mentor, somebody who does ask those questions, somebody who does listen as well as you do, somebody who is paying attention and saying, have you thought of this, that's a powerful, you know, thing to have in your business life.

Well, sure, and you know as well as I do, the better questions you ask, the better answers you get. Yeah. One of the challenges I had to overcome is I'm a former cop from many years ago. And when I first started, I was running conversations more like interrogations. It didn't work. I can tell you. And I find you listen to a lot of people, and that's what they're doing now.

Like, what's your biggest problem? Hey, I don't know you. Why am I going to talk to you? about a problem I got. I don't have a clue who you are, what you want, or anything else. You've got to build up that trust, and, you know, the like, as I said earlier,

could come in later, but they have to trust you before they're going to start to open up. Yeah, it makes sense. Well, John, I am looking at the clock. The clock is never my friend, and I want to make sure that people that have been listening to this,

I know there's going to be some people who say, you know, I want to know more about this, John Allen. Is there a way that you prefer that they get a hold of you or find out more? Or maybe is your group coaching or group mentoring? Is it going to be local? Are you going to do it, you know, by Zoom so that anybody anywhere could be part of it? It'll be done by Zoom because I learned one thing. when I moved from Saskatchewan to Ontario, I thought I was in the Catsby Howe to get new clients

because Ford was just laying off. 15,000 people were losing their job. Couldn't get a client here to save my soul. I could in the U.S., Australia, Western Canada. So I learned green was my favorite color, went with everything I wore, and I didn't give a damn where they lived anywhere in the English-speaking world. Okay, so no matter who's listening,

wherever in the world, they could be part of your... Are you calling a group coaching? What are you calling it? It'll be, for right now, it'll be group coaching. I'm actually going to come up with a better name for it. Okay. Either through my website at www. allan-allel-en small business coaching.com

or they can reach me by email at Allen, A-L-L-L-L-E-N, small-business coaching.com, or they can reach me by email at Allen, A-L-L-E-N-W-S-O-L-U-T-I-O-N-S-O-U-T-I-O-N-S at G-Mail. Or if you're in North America, you can call me at 1519-5-60-562. Please leave a message because I don't always answer the phone. Well, that's, yeah, many of us have done that. because, you know, John, is there any one last tip, any last comments that you'd like before we end this conversation? Sure.

When you're talking to people, be yourself. And look at it that there's nothing in the conversation. There's no sale in the conversation for you. You're not there to chase anybody. You're not there to try and sell anybody. What you want to do is see if there is. a connection there. And once you build that connection, then you can get more into it.

But to try and start to sell them right off the bat, you're wasting your time, their time, and you're putting a lot of stress on yourself besides the prospect. So they're to have fun and have conversations. Well, I know your motto is serve and not sell. Correct. So that's really important. Well, John, thank you, thank you, thank you for being such an amazing guest and giving such amazing tips. I always love it.

You are a giant in the world of marketing strategy, and I'm sure there's going to be people who will be very interested in listening to this and taking notes. So thank you so much for being here today. Thanks, Anna. I appreciate the opportunity to be on the call and to share with your listeners. Yeah. So this is Nina Hirshberger saying until next time, go out and as John would say, serve and not sell. Thank you for listening to Megabucks Radio with Nina Hirshberger. To learn more about the resources mentioned on today's show or to listen to past episodes, visit megabucksradio.com.