Business Innovators Radio - Mike Skrypnek: How Men Can Heal Their Trauma and Lead with Emotional Intelligence

Episode Date: October 22, 2023

Mike Skrypnek is an international bestseller of nine books, a keynote speaker and sought after business strategist who has shared his insights and wisdom with thousands of passionate purpose driven entrepreneurs, business leaders and executives. His coaching focuses on purpose at the intersection of personal, professional and philanthropic development. Healing our past traumas and reforming our subconscious patterns allows us to realize our UNLimited Worth.Learn more at: unlimitedworth.orgRebelpreneur Radio with Ralph Brogdenhttps://businessinnovatorsradio.com/rebelpreneur-radio-with-ralph-brogden/Source: https://businessinnovatorsradio.com/mike-skrypnek-how-men-can-heal-their-trauma-and-lead-with-emotional-intelligence

You're locked in The United Station of the planet. Resistance is futile. The revolution has begun. We're listening to Revelepreneur Radio, helping you break the rules and build the business you need for the life you want. And now, broadcasting his pirate signal

from somewhere beyond the status glow. Here's your host, best-selling author, marketing and media strategist, Ralph Brogden. Hello and welcome to Rebelpreneur Radio. It's the show that helps you build the business you need so you can live the life you want. I'm Ralph Brogden. Well, in case you haven't noticed it, there is a real dearth of leadership, a real lack of support for true leaders.

And I was just, as I was preparing for my next guest, just taking kind of a quick inventory. there are a lot of offerings out there by women for women to support women and help women. And that's wonderful. I have a wife. I have two daughters. I have a granddaughter. So I'm all about empowering women. But I'm also a man.

And I realize that there doesn't seem to be as many resources available to support men. to help men. And it's difficult because men typically have a hard time asking for help. And so that creates this vicious cycle where men are sometimes put in a position that they're not prepared for. And rather than get the support and the help that they need, they try to fake it until they make it. And that creates some real issues, some real problems. Today's guest is, is really an expert in helping men's mental wellness, leadership, trauma-informed, emotional intelligence. And I really appreciate the fact that he's focusing on helping male leaders find happiness,

love, and success in everything that they do. So I'm pleased to welcome Mike Scripnik to the show. he is an international bestseller of nine books. He is a keynote speaker and a sought-after business strategist who has shared his insights and wisdom with thousands of passionate purpose-driven entrepreneurs, business leaders, and executives. His coaching focuses on purpose at the intersection of personal, professional, and philanthropic development, healing our past traumas and reforming our subconscious

patterns allows us to realize our unlimited worth. Mike, welcome to Rebel Pneur Radio. Ralph, it's a pleasure to be here today. Thank you. I am really, I've been browsing your website, trying to get to know you and get to know all about your program, but you are the one who knows you best. Tell us a little bit more about who you are, what you do, and, you do, and who you help. Well, who I am. I think you even touched on who you are. I mean, I'm a father, I'm a husband. I'm a business owner, a business consultant, an author, a little bit of a lot of things. What I am, first and foremost, though, is a man who helps other men understand that there are opportunities for them in the challenges they face and people who might be able to help.

And if I want to elaborate on that, I found myself in a moment of what I would call an existential crisis late in life at 51 years old. And that moment was, you know, adorned with depression and deep, dark sadness and hopelessness. and a 10 days of considering ending my life and removing myself from this world. And then a journey of healing that followed. And it was the help of wonderful people in my life, wonderful family support, that I was able to navigate to get proper therapy and kind of exit that. And what had preceded all of that was 30 years of, a business success.

Business success. Right out of university, being in professional sports and supporting that and having my own business and then finding myself in the investment management world for over 20 years and taking an entrepreneurial approach to every day of that and building a business at one point for the last decade of my investment career on helping people give their money away versus hoarding it, addressing people's philanthropy, and navigating the planning required for that. And so, you know, I'd always been an entrepreneur and always been my own owner, never worked

for anybody, worked on my own, and my customers were always my, you know, the people I worked for. And exited that industry, sold my business, and began coaching others on the things I'd learned. The things I learned from other entrepreneurs who said, if only 20 years, I would have known this. And decided to pass on that wisdom. And with the knowledge I had and the information I had learned from great coaches and great training in order for me to put my business into a very specific niche, I thought I had something to share. And it was just about to go out and do that all over North America. a beautiful plan to scale up after a number of years.

And I came home from some of that planning from a trip to New York. And we were shut in a week later with COVID. And that journey for me became one that was a bit of a spiral and culminated into that moment of crisis. So at this side of the crisis a few years later, I'm here helping men at a deeper level. Coaching was something that was all about strategy and tactics. What I've understood now profoundly is coaching begins when we go deeper into ourselves to understand that what the work we do won't be undone by the sabotage we choose, or while we don't choose, quite frankly, the subconscious unraveling of the good things that we do in life. And so that's what I

help men and I help business leaders with and I help people understand is, you know, that they, the majority, 70% of male leaders, you know, have gaps. And 75% of workers today view their leaders as the number one reason they don't enjoy their work. So those gaps are really critical. And my role in this now is to take all that wonderful business knowledge and intertwine it with things that matter more. You know, that leader where they go, I don't know why every six months I have to replace half my staff. Or I don't know why I can never get my deals to work and they always fall apart on something. And when I can get people to stop looking outside themselves and inward, we often find some amazing breakthroughs. Wow.

Yeah. I want to go back to what you said about coaching beyond strategies and tactics. It sounds like even with the best strategies and tactics, it's still possible for someone to self-sabotage over something that really has nothing to do or little to do with their external environment and it has to do with some unresolved trauma on the inside. Is that fair to say? It absolutely is. And, you know, think of this as a metaphor. I thought of us right now, and that is all my investing career, like I eventually was really about structured investing, right? So I wasn't a big stock picker. And one of the things that I, if I reflect to, is stock picking will work.

The question is, did it work the first time you decided to do it or the very last time? And in between, when is the time that it doesn't work and you give it all back? It's our being at Vegas at the tables, right? Like, you might be winning for a while, but eventually you'll give it back or vice versa. You might go on not having success and then there's success. it's always how great you were. And it wasn't just because it might happen. And what I find is if there are, if there's gaps and they're caused by something deeper like a developmental trauma that was untreated, unknown, or unaware of, that eventually in some way, shape, or form, it rears its head and will inevitably affect you. Will it ruin your business? It might not, but it might ruin your marriage. Will it keep you from having an okay life?

Maybe not, but you might be an alcoholic with okay life, right? Whatever it is. Somewhere in there, if you were affected by some negative events or event that caused trauma response in you, in your life during your developmental years, let's call it 12 weeks. unborn to 20 years old, it's a strong possibility that you have this subconscious wiring that will inevitably, you know, force you to protect yourself, but in modern-day society, we don't have to protect our cave, so we do something that isn't very effective for modern life. Yeah.

Well, we can see examples of that all over the place, but let's make it personal. I'll give myself as an example. I've got a real problem with rejection. I'm probably not the only one, but the unresolved issue of rejection. And the interesting thing is I'm not rejected that much, right? Actually, I'm very acceptable to most people, but it doesn't matter what it is. It could be applying for a black American visa card or American Express card and saying, no, not right now. And that throws me into this unrealistic reaction.

So that is telling, that might be telling you then that here's something that happened back in my developmental years that I never fully resolved. it manifests when a similar triggering event happens, and that's affecting my risk taking now. It's affecting my relationships now. Is that a good way to characterize what we're talking about? Absolutely. Now, look, there's some positives to that, not taking no for an answer, not handling rejection as, you'd view it as a challenge. It might be, if you took it as an affront, then maybe you work harder, right? There are some positives that happen as a result, but the negatives become, what is the emotional

connection you have to the underlying behavior? So if rejection is something that gets to you, how do you, what are your emotions? Are they they manifest as anger? Do they manifest as resentment? Are they, do they manifest as distrust or depression? And then what do you do in effect as a result? You know, if you become confrontational in situations where that was not warranted, then you're going to be disruptive at work or in a relationship.

If you avoid every situation going forward that might potentially give you rejection, then you miss opportunities and you no longer grow. So, you know, how your behaviors manifest themselves spurred by our emotions, because that's what it is. Our emotions are the, you know, the signals. They send the signals to us to, it's like, you know, the anti-enlock brake. The sensors in your car, you know, especially now with autonomous cars, you know, the moment the sensor goes off, the brakes go on, right? you know, the sensors are our emotions and the breaks are our behaviors. And they're inextricably linked until we understand where the behaviors originated.

And the moment we get that piece, then we're able to break them apart and we're no longer driven by that emotion. It sounds like a lot of layers of the onion that somebody has to peel back. Is this a hard, difficult process? Have you found a way to make it easy? I mean, how does your process work with people trying to figure this out? Well, the difficulty is having the willingness to go into that moment, you know, because it is a secret of some sort. As males, we're going to keep us secret because we perceive risk in the universe,

that everything is at risk, that our possessions are well-being, our family, our fire, our food, all of that stuff is at risk if we're not careful, right? And so when we perceive risk, we don't share, we don't open up, we don't become vulnerable. So even though the majority of the risks we perceive aren't real, right? They're wired into our primitive brain. And so the first thing is understanding that the risks we perceive are not nearly as bad as the risk of not dealing with the issue. Then we find ourselves the circle of trust, which is really one person who loves, cares, and you can have confidence in, and then a professional to navigate this. And so that's the next step, is disclosing that, hey, you know, it's possible that if you don't mind, because people think

I'm an a-hole and call me one, and I think I am, actually, I can't help myself that, you know, like, I've had people say that. Like, I can't, I'm an a-hole and I just can't help myself, but that's when I get in a circumstance, this is how I am. And, you know, that admission that maybe, just maybe that's coming from somewhere. And my position is, it's definitely coming from somewhere. It's definitely connected to something. You know, everybody's, the spectrum of what people receive as a trauma in their lives from a negative event is varied.

You know, one person that might be, you know, assault or abuse of some sort. And the other, just someone never talked to them. You know, it could be, you know, or something happened to the mom while they're in the womb. Whatever it is, something dialed in our primitive brain to say, preserve. this person in this circumstance, don't let them know you're doing it because if they overthink it, they could die, right? Or, you know, the most primitive way. And if we acknowledge that that might exist in a plain way, regardless of all the emotion that it conjures, the whole can of worms you think you're bringing up, we just say that, yeah, there's probably

something, and I know that people can help. You know, no different than I have my, I have a genetic disposition of some kind of illness. And if I work out, if I eat right, I actually can overcome it. So you find a dietitian and you find a trainer and you do it. The same couldn't be true with finding a psychologist or a therapist who can help you navigate it. It's as simple as that. And it feels heavier than that because we delve into the place where our emotions are conjured. And, you know, we have to get past that and say the red, the, the, reality, and this is where my book and my podcast and my entire movement came, was speaking with other men had gone through it, gone through something and then went through some healing journey

and out the other end. What I realize is we all sound the same. We all had the same kind of group of emotions that seem to be surrounding different negative events in our lives. but what was clear is once we began that process of disclosure, help seeking and sharing that information with just their select few, we were better. And that's the key. And it was the kind of thing that makes you look back and go, I don't know what I was waiting for.

Yeah. You know, I said, I buried something for 40 years. that didn't seem very helpful when I was considering ending my life and my business was in turmoil and vice versa. You know, I was because of my business, you know, all that stuff was combined. And it didn't seem as important in the early times when I was perfectly fine, but felt that there was something not quite right. That's the moment in my 20s, in my 30s, in my 40s that I should have, I wish I would have known

that it was so simple to connect. And I don't want to use the word fix lightly. I use fix, but it's a little more involved than fixed because I think there's a duration effect. If you endured years and years of traumatic events, it takes a while to unwind. I think there's a very clear duration effect to the type of thing you've experienced

and how deeply wired it is. But beyond that, every time you step forward and discreet, it's better. Just plain old better, better than it was the day before. So your work takes you to men's groups, corporates, corporate settings, leadership trainings, keynote speaking. You've written several books.

And men are struggling. Absolutely. Men are struggling everywhere. What is the big? Keystone problem. What is the main thing you see over and over again that is the biggest obstacle to most men? And if they can overcome that, then they can, it kind of creates some momentum. But what is the big shift that you've got to get them to overcome before you can work with them towards that transformation?

Well, it would definitely be kind of two-sided. On one side, you have this immense perception of risk. I always say, you know, you'd mention women have a lot of opportunity to gain help and get support, and women are just crushing it right now. This is the time to excel as a woman in womanhood in this, at least North America, at the very least. And they create something that they would call safe spaces. Now, women, as I understand, because I have a wife, a daughter, I coached young girls at one point, in soccer for years. And what I learn is women do perceive the world as unsafe on a regular basis.

Most men I've ever, so safe spaces is the right phrasing to support women and give them a platform to have disclosure and conversation. and they find it in their social networks with other women. Men, on the other hand, we don't typically view most scenarios that we get into in life, even though we maybe should, as unsafe. But if I turn that and said, there's a risk, we definitely get into many situations that we perceive risk. And so for us, being in a low risk or a risk-free space

is a real key element of that conversation. So how do you put men who I recommend normalizing there, having a normal conversation about the things that might have been part of their developmental experience, have a normal conversation of it. Well, we need leaders, and this is why I focus on leaders, is because people who perceive you to be a leader, you may be able, very skilled at hiding,

whatever it is that was troubling you forever, because you can create financial buffers, success buffers, people buffers around and protect you from revealing the truth. We need those leaders who are right now 40 to 60 who set the tone in work, set the tone in entertainment, set the tone in sports, and really are dictating how we think about this world to create environments where

they understand that they're better off for understanding what is deeper below the surface of their emotional intelligence and that it's a simple process to move forward without risk so that they can create work environments, social environments, community and family environments where the young men of today, the 18 to 25 year olds who are incredibly struggling right now to get their footing as men in North America in particular, that they have an environment that they can grow into as young men and older men because the risk-free space,

the acceptance and the understanding of how trauma connects to these gaps, that's key. So leaders create the opportunity for the younger men in a mentorship way, but, you know, I don't recommend that everyone has to grab on to somebody and become their mentor, although I certainly suggest that's an incredible thing to do in life. But we have a responsibility in leadership to understand our own stuff and then create an environment that when others go down that path, we don't have to know it what exactly is going on,

but we have to be there to support it. And if we just do that in a what I call normalized way, we've done something way beyond what I grew up in and what most people have grown up in as in the working world, with as men, or in sporting world or in entertainment. You know, the constructs that we put on ourselves or were put on us by men who came before us

didn't have an understanding that, you know, it's okay to connect these things and it's okay to navigate them. And it's actually an elevation of one's psyche intellect and abilities to actually go in and deal with them. It was viewed as a weakness and when an actuality, dealing with it becomes a strength. There's such a need for that risk. There's no such thing as a risk-free environment. Is that fair to say? Risk-free? I think there entirely is such a thing.

Okay. However, it's not perceived to be. because most of our risks in life are perceived risks. I mean, if you're just, what is a risk is standing on the corner? That's not a very risk-free environment if you're standing in the corner of downtown anywhere in North America. But if you're in a room full of other men having a conversation, you can get to a pretty high likelihood that it can be risk-free. So it's really about the perception. Sure.

The perception of risk is more of the thing that holds us back than the actual risk. Absolutely. It's a fear-based item. And, you know, I think the most uncomfortable conversations are the sports and the weather that we talk about. Right? Because they're avoidance of things that matter. It's just our way of masculine, you know, us men having a way to kind of, kind of skirt the issues that matter to us so that we can connect in some way that we perceive is

risk-free. When in effect, it becomes very risky to just gain superficial relationships because no one will have your back if that's all it is. You don't have the support you need. You won't have an opportunity to disclose. You get to keep your secret longer, and that secret may eventually kill you. So, you know, I think it's, so how, let's say, how do I work with men? an example being. So consider a CEO that might, you know, be frustrated, absolutely smart, innovative, driving a business out of, you know, starting from nothing and creating something, right?

And all of a sudden you have an enterprise and it's growing. And then you realize, well, I didn't do a very good job of maybe bringing people around me, but maybe you get to a point where you're so in it, you can't tell whether or not people are quality or not quality. And you begin to worry that you can't trust anybody. And if I were having conversation with someone who said they couldn't have, I don't trust anybody. I don't trust my leaders or my managers to have my back. Or I don't trust them to do the job that I need them to do.

And then you get a second look and you go, well, all those leaders are very capable and actually they do the job. And so what's the trust piece about? Well, that trust piece becomes about you. And in fact, trust is always about us. right so if you're the executive and you go i can't trust any of my people do anything and i don't if i can't leave the office and i can never not be connected because i don't trust anybody well that's about you right that's not about the people and so why is it that trust becomes such an important piece to you and how do you act that out right it might be the simple act of being

connected all the time being compulsive or micromanaging you're like no i'm not micromanaging i'm just looking over, you know, what I expect people to do. Oh, okay, well, that's, that's great. But how can you do it obsessively? And why did you check somebody at 2 a.m.? Like, none of that is productive, right? And your lack of trust then, you know, permeates into the company, and the company starts to become dysfunctional,

and it's not because it was there to begin with, but because you create the situation and you can't help it. And that's the key. You don't see it coming. you don't see it happening. You're not conscious of it. And you really, you know, suggest it's other people's challenge. So when I'm able to be in a room with a CEO or an owner or an executive or any leader in the past,

I would have just said, let's deal with strategy and tactics. Let's just, yeah, that might be a thing, but let's just grow your business. Right. You know, let's deal with the processes and people. We'll get that figured out. And I would do that because I would be fearful that they wouldn't like me. me. They wouldn't appreciate me and they would fire me, right? And there I would have no value and no worth in the room. That was my pre-life revelation. Right. And then post-post that, I went, oh, my gosh, what they really want and need is for me to be in the room calling them on this. And not calling

them on as it's a fall. No one else is going to do that, but you. No one else in that situation. White and family aren't even going to. Right. Because these people are driving, they're otherwise as success. So I'm there not calling people out, not giving them the doctor-fill treatment, but kind of, you know, in a way that's understanding because I get what it means to, you know, I get what it means to pay your payroll on credit card. I get that, right? And then the next month be flush, right? or I get what it means to, you know, make promises to the market and then have to deliver and not know if you can, right?

I get that. I know what it means to have those conversations or that lie awake all night thinking about how your business is running. So I can relate to that challenge and have that conversation that matters in the same breath. And for that, you know, that becomes a valuable piece of someone's life. And so for me, purposefully moving through this, you know, the next 47 years, I'm giving myself 100. Just FYI to anybody else. 47 years, I only have so much time. That's how I lead.

And that is by helping others, you know, see more within themselves. Well, the name of your organization is Unlimited Worth Project. You can look it up at Unlimitedworth.org. Mike's got several books. There's a podcast, men's group. He offers corporate and leadership training and just a whole suite of resources here to try and open up a conversation with people or with men specifically to speak about these challenges. Mike, what have you got going on right now that's got you really a conversation? excited that you'd like to call attention to our listeners?

Well, we've got our men's group fired up again this fall. Like we took a little bit of a hiatus in summer, so we're getting that going. We meet monthly right now. Men Worth meeting. I mark it through my LinkedIn platform and on our website. That's got me excited. Another thing that's got me excited is straddling in with companies in-house. I'm working internally in a fairly male-dominated company that I'm with right now,

working from the inside out, looking, you know, unusually where I'm normally an outside contractor. I'm an inside worker with some of these people doing some important work from the CEO to the front line. So that's got me really excited because you can, you know, on a day-to-day basis, you begin to make such a difference in people's lives. But every time I have an opportunity like this, I appreciate you, Ralph, for putting this on and to host your show and ask me to be part of it because, you know, just the fact that I've had opportunities to continue to share this important message

and the project that we're on, you know, it just matters. I mean, one man making slight shift in their life and taking another step forward means that we might change an entire community, or heck, you know, 50,000 people working for a company, who knows. But if it just changes one life, it'd be amazing. Yeah, absolutely. And, I mean, I would go beyond that and say, society depends upon men being men, fulfilling their role.

And it's hard to do. that when you don't have the leaders, you don't have the support that you need. So I'm really grateful for your work, and I appreciate you being on the show today. Mike Scripnik is an international bestseller of nine books. He's a keynote speaker, sought after a business strategist who has shared his insights and wisdom with thousands of passionate purpose-driven entrepreneurs, business leaders, and executives. you can find out more about the Unlimited Worth project at Unlimitedworth.org.

And I hope especially every man listening to this will go check that out. Mike, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and your time with us today, your mission and your message. I really appreciate you being on the show. Thank you. It was my pleasure. Thanks so much for having me, Ralph. You've been listening to Rebelpreneur Radio with. Ralph Brogden. Download the show notes and much more at rebelpreneur.com.