Business Innovators Radio - Objectively Speaking

Episode Date: October 17, 2024

“If you think you did something but can’t PROVE that you did, then you probably didn’t do anything at all.” –Dr. Walter V Pierce, Sr. Founder of the Pierce Results System of Spinal AnalysisIn this episode, Dr. Dan, Dr. Riley and Angela discuss the importance of objective health measurements. They emphasize the value of using objective data to track progress and guide treatment plans, build trust by demonstrating tangible improvements, and assess overall health and areas of stress or dysfunction in the body. Approaching health objectively is more than practical – it’s essential!To learn more about this and other hot health topics, follow us on social media and subscribe to our WTH podcast. If you have a specific health question or would like to find out if we can help you with a personal health challenge, check out our office page or contact us at 412-369-0400/ [e-mail]. As always, our mission is to help you Get Healthy and Stay Healthy for a Lifetime!What the Health?!https://businessinnovatorsradio.com/what-the-health/Source: https://businessinnovatorsradio.com/objectively-speaking

Welcome to What the Health, where anything health is fair game as we tackle the trends and bust the myths about health and wellness. Here are your hosts, Dr. Dan and Angela Toro. And welcome to another episode of What the Health. I am Dr. Dan here with my two co-hosts. Angela. Dr. Riley. All right, you guys know the drill. We're here for informational purposes only and no way offering individualized medical advice. Always talk to your trusted health care provider before making changes to your specific routine. So with that being said, we're talking about objective outcomes today. Dr. Riley wanted to talk about this topic.

So what do we mean by objective outcomes? Objective. So something that you can measure. We go like subjective versus objective. So what's subjective then? Subjective is like me asking you, how would you, how do you feel today? It's something that is almost opinion-based. And that's kind of why I chose doing the technique that we do.

The Pierce Result system is a lot of objective medicine. It holds the doctor accountable, lets the patient kind of know, hey, this is how I'm doing, this is how you're doing. I think it's the easiest way to build trust between a health care provider and their patients is objectively showing them, hey, this is changing. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's so important. And we can talk about a little bit of the technology that we use to analyze that. But I think that's, you know, really why medical doctors, you know, especially in the 50s and 60s, you know, gained so much trust and really were elevated to that pedestal of like, you know,

almost like a god, right? You know, it doesn't, you know, that authority level, like, it didn't matter what they said, you know, they could, you know, doctors orders. And it is like, you did what the doctor told you, because you were, you know, taking, you know, taking it on authority that what they said, you know, that they knew what they were talking about. But they also, you know, they have some good objective measures. Now, we can talk about whether or not, you know, the objective measures they're looking at are, you know, good for your health and well-being. But if you look at a blood test, or let's take blood pressure for the simplest example. Okay, your blood pressure, you take someone's blood pressure a couple times and it's above 140 over 90. You are now diagnosed

with high blood pressure. And they can give you a blood pressure medication. There's lots of different types. There's lots of different bio-mechanical, biochemical, biochemical mechanisms of which those medications work. But you can start taking those. and you will see a drop in your blood pressure. So that's a pre-post. That's an objective measure. Blood pressure's high. Medication here.

Blood pressure down. Okay? Now, we can argue all day long whether or not that's healthy. We're not here to do that, but that's an objective measure. You go in and you have a, you know, you get in a car accident and you've got a piece of metal sticking out of your side and, you know, the surgeon is able to remove that, clean it, so you back up. That's a pre and a post.

Objective measure. metal is inserted into your body and now the surgeon has been able to remove that. That's a high level of trust and before and after outcome. And I think that, I think that, you know, as a society, you're right, it builds trust when, you know, you can see those objective measures. But I would argue that, and maybe this is going to go in a different direction, but I would argue that because of the overarching outcomes of where culturally and where the system of quote-unquote health care is gone, we always talk about it being disease management, right? Those objective measures are now starting to, you know, fight in the, they're starting to go against

the idea that are we actually getting healthier as a society, right? Well, I think that's why we talk a lot about there's, you need the objective measures, but then you need to understand what those objective measures are saying. So we always talk about knowing your numbers. Like, and not just knowing your numbers, like knowing what they are, but understanding what those numbers mean.

And I think that's, I think that's where it's starting to become, you know, we have these objective, you know, blood pressure and cholesterol and all that's been tracked for how many decades now. But it's, you know, are we truly understanding it? And then what are our choices

when we see those numbers? Because it's, you know, like you said, okay, your blood pressure is 140 over 90. Here's a pill versus here's a conversation about what that means. What are the options? And how, you know, how are we going to get those numbers down? Why do we want to get those numbers down? Yes. And I think that's different than how we utilize our objective measures here where it's not just,

okay, like that's, like, okay, great, your scan looks good, your fix, get out. It's, let's. Yeah, let's have a conversation about it. Well, and I think the importance, you know, as you brought up the scan, so we do infrared thermal scanning in the office. And thermal scanning has been, you know, done since the days of Hippocrates, the father of, you know, modern medicine. And, you know, he used to put mud packs all over patients. Or you'd spread mud all over patients. And the area that dried the fastest was the area that he believed was the diseased area.

So, you know, so he would go and then look in that area. So it's like that's the earliest, you know, understanding of, you know, looking at temperature differences in the body as being areas that should be looked at. And so we use, we don't spread mud, we don't sling mud at our patients. I'm like, ooh, that sounds nice. Yeah, maybe we should do that. But, yeah, we don't sling mud at people, but we have a very high profile thermal camera. So we're looking, we're scanning up the back, you know, right over the spine. And that's important because that's right where the nose.

nerves from the central nervous system, go into the peripheral nervous system, and go out to every cell tissue and organ in the body. So we're trying to literally look at where the connection point is between central nervous system and peripheral nervous system and seeing temperature variations. And again, in an ideal world, you know, we, you know, we're making the, I don't want to say assumption, but, you know, we're going off the idea that that should be that should be generally the same, right? The temperature and a healthy person across the spine and the skin over the spine should be about the same within one to two degrees. And if we start seeing deviations outside that two to three degree range, it's been, you know,

it's been understood, you know, through research that there is a disease process that could be developing or if it's actually outside the five degree range. It is actually, there is a disease process, whether or not it's been diagnosed, there is a disease process definitely growing and developing in the body. So the interesting thing then, you know, Dr. Riley, with the thermal scanning is that we talk a lot about, you know, in science, specificity, right? And so, you know, the idea that infrared thermal imaging is not very specific, right? So what do we mean by that? We're just looking at the fact that there is some sort of interference going on in the system. There's some sort of stress in the system that's causing.

that massive temperature deviation. But it's not very, so the more specific a test, the more, like, one test means absolutely like this diagnosis. So like even an MRI is not very specific, right? Because you're looking across multiple layers of tissue. So an MRI is good for a lot of different things, kind of like the infrared thermal scanning. We don't necessarily know and are not out to diagnose your specific disease. we are looking at where are there deviation, stresses, distortions in your body that could be,

you know, enhancing or growing in the system. So we are trying to balance that nervous system, right, by balancing out that thermal scan. And when we do that, then we, you know, are going back to the assumption that the body is designed to heal, right? And so if we get the interference, the distortion, you know, removed from the body, then we know that the body is going to be working towards a healthier regulated state. Does that make sense? So it's not very specific, right? You know, we're not like diagnosing like, oh, you have high blood pressure because your scan looks like this or you have, you know, you have, you know, tingling and numbness because your scan looks like this. You know, we're looking at, oh, no, your system is. Underline problem. Yeah, your system has, you know,

a significant amount of stress in it, how can we best remove the stress? And, you know, again, a lot of it comes through chiropractic care when we start to make adjustments to the spine and we have other technology to actually look at how is the spine moving. But then, you know, we also look at training and we also look at, you know, dietary, you know, what are you putting into your system? You know, maybe you need massage. Maybe you, you know, need to breathe. You know, mental emotional. It's like, and those all have impacts on those distortions that we see in the infrared thermal pattern. So, you know, again, is the test extremely specific? No, but it's extremely reliable and valid that if there is deviation on that scan, there is stress in your system somewhere that we need to go find, right?

So that's the idea of like an objective measure and we can track very quickly, like what are we, what we're doing in our care plans, is it working? working to bring that balance back to the system, or are there other avenues that we need to start exploring? So, yeah, I mean, I agree. It's the specificity versus like reliability. Yeah, it's objective measures sometimes, I guess in our realm don't have to be too specific, but they need to be reliable. Yeah.

If we're doing a care plan for X amount of months, it's like, okay, we need to have reliable results that we're looking at, you know, throughout that care plan. so um just yeah and it's not to say that if somebody comes in because a lot of the times people will be like well that that can't be right like they're coming in and things will hurt and they have a perfect scan and and so it's like it's not to say that we're not also listening to and that you guys aren't also like doing you know help patient and seeing and feeling that but again it's one of the measures that we use and it's again it's about that you know across time seeing how it's changing or not changing and allowing that that conversation to happen. And again, that's why we

also start with the x-rays for everybody, because that right there is it's like, it's a matter if you feel it or not, if your spine is, you know, jacked for lack of better. At some point, it's going to be an issue. And so, yeah, so it's like starting with that. Now, again, we're not going to do the x-rays every time because that would be excessive. So we, but again, we do repeat those throughout people's care plans to see, you know, how, how are you changing? How is your spine changing on that structural level? Yeah. In addition to how's your thermal scan changing. And yes, and we also want to know how you're feeling. And hopefully that those things are all going together. Correct. But yeah, I mean, as we talked about, we talked about this on our last podcast, the, what's it called

journey to, well, path to, well, I don't remember what it was called. Yeah, the opt to path off home. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's not a straight line. So it's, that's why, and that's why the objective measures are so important, especially for, I mean, yes, for the patient to see too, but I think more important for you as a health professional to see because we will often see the changes before they start feeling it. Yes. And I've noticed the same thing as a trainer. It's like people sometimes just don't, it's so easy to get stuck on, you know, if you're,

if you're not feeling well, it's easy to get stuck on what doesn't feel good and not pay attention to what maybe is starting to feel better. And same thing, if you start a new exercise program, it's so easy to get stuck on. I heard more. Yeah. Or like this is why this is still so hard. Like it's still, you know, as opposed to seeing all the things you can do now. And, you know, I remember I had a client.

I was working with for years. And he's like, I don't understand why this isn't getting any easier. I'm like, because I keep making it harder as you get stronger. And he's like, oh, I'm like, you don't have, you know, I'm a yesterday, you know, just yesterday. I had to do a circuit that was twice as long than he's ever done. He's like, man, that was so hard. I'm like, yeah, it's the longest circuit we've ever done. Yeah.

That's why it was hard. So having those, and again, it's because I, as a professional and tracking and seeing, okay, he can do X, Y, and Z now, which means we can go to the next progression versus somebody who can't, you know, can't stand on one foot. I'm not going to be like, okay, we'll step up on that box. Where the measurements come in. Exactly. We'll have patients and we'll see for a year or two.

They're like, I just, you know, I don't know. I'm not getting any better. Yeah. I'm like, do you remember when you came in for migraines twice? a week or something like that. Once last time you had one. You know, and they're like, my leg still hurts. I'm like, okay. Yeah. That's, we'll work on that too. But, you know, objectively, we, I show you this. So, you know, so. Well, and that, and that really, that, that, that, that goes back to solidify the point about specificity, right? Because, you know,

your body, again, when you, when you, when you trust the underlying, you know, assumption that your body is designed to heal, okay? And it's designed to heal and self-regulate and adapt. When you trust that, then you have to kind of be more as a practitioner. You have to be more facilitative of someone and not authoritative, right? So we talked about that at the beginning. When you're authoritative, you know, you go in and say, well, I am, you know, I am, you know, forcing my will, you know, and your blood numbers need to be here. So I'm going to put you on this medication until your blood numbers come down into that range that I want it to be at. Rather than, hey, you know, we're not seeing the specificity of, you know, but we're seeing stress patterns change, you know,

with that infrared thermal scan. And so the body knows what it needs to work on first. We've had patients, you know, come in with, you know, they have some sort of like underlying disease process, you know, like a cancer that has not been diagnosed yet. And I'm not saying we diagnose cancer. We do not, do not, do not do that. But when you are scanning someone and, you know, they are not, you know, they're not feeling any better, but maybe their scans are starting to change a little bit. And then all of a sudden they go in for like an annual checkup and then, you know, they come back in and they're like, oh, I was diagnosed with such and such. It's like, well, no wonder you're not feeling better. Your body is fighting like a cancerous disease.

It doesn't care that your little pinky is, you know, is sore and in pain. Or it doesn't care that you have like, you know, this little bit of an ear, earache or vertigo. It's like it's trying to, you know, it's trying to prioritize what's going on and all its energy and focus and attention is on the burning, the burning building that's going on inside your body. So like, you know, with that, we have to be more facilitative and, you know, and you brought it up perfectly, Dr. Riley. Hey, maybe they came in with leg pain and, you know, that leg pain isn't getting better. But, oh, by the way, my headaches of twice a week for 10 years are reduced to, you know, less than once a month. I'm sleeping much better. I have a more impositive outlook.

I'm breathing better. Now I'm able to, you know, exercise a little bit. And therefore, I'm making better decisions about my – it's like, bubble of my legs still hurts. And then you say, oh, well, my doctor or my chiropractor failed me. Like, and it doesn't work? It sounds to me like a whole lot of it worked, you know. It's like, you know, like we always say, sometimes we need to handhold our patients through difficult times. Sometimes they need a good kick in the ass, right?

It's like, sorry, I've been swearing more than my podcast today. Very spicy. Yes. But that's why, you know, again, in an ideal world, the subjective measurements like, hey, I'm actually feeling better. I feel like I'm functioning better. Like those subjective changes are improving and then we are seeing the objective changes that match that. Yeah. Sometimes it doesn't match perfectly because there's underlying things going on. And so, you know, we have to trust that there's a lot more going on in the body that, and it knows what it's doing. And sometimes it's, you know, it's a great way to say, hey, this isn't changing or, hey, we need to have that conversation. Maybe it's time that we refer you to another health professional. You know, you need to go try this. You know, you need to go do that. And it's like, you know, we understand that we are not the end all be all for everyone. But, you know, I really feel like as a center point, you know, looking at your spine. and nervous system as the foundation of, you know, your health and well-being.

First line of defense, right? I said that to a patient last night actually was in the office because a couple weeks ago, he went into the ER because he was literally having pain in his chest, you know, the tingling and numbness pain down his arm. And so he went to the ER and they checked everything in his heart, completely clear, okay? And so he called me and, you know, came into the office and within a couple visits, It's like tingling numbness in his arms completely gone, chest pain, like 90% gone, you know, completely just, you know, completely like re-centering of his system and his health and

well-being. And I said, how cool would it be if they had a chiropractor that knew what they were doing in the ER and someone like that before you run like, you know, a million tests and like, you know, thousands of dollars of tests and time with, you know, other, you know, major health professionals, you analyze their spine and their nervous system, got that cleared out and balanced, and then, you know, made the decision on, you know, what's the next line of defense. So you said that first line of defense, you know, sometimes it's that chiropractor that, you know, hey, you need to get your system. You need to get your nervous system coordinating better. And that's what we have the objective measures to be able to look at with the infrared scan, with the motion x-ray technology.

we're seeing in real time where is the problem? You know, the term we use is subluxation, but it's the misalignment, the restriction, the distortion in the spine that's causing an irritation to the nervous system. And if we can get that cleared out, you know, even just over a couple of visits to get your body moving in the right direction, then again, we become, you know, we really handle the body. We don't. The body handles a lot of other, you know, of those, you know, aches and pains and, you know, irritations because it knows how to be healthy in the absence of interference.

And we have ways of measuring that. So in the essence of time, and I mean, I think we could really die further down the rabbit hole with a lot of those objective measures. But, you know, having a trusted health professional, whether it's a functional trainer, whether it's a massage therapist, a chiropractor, you know, your functional medical doctor, whatever the case may be, you know, you want to make sure that they are having objective measures and those objective measures are matching what your goals for your health and well-being are. And so, you know, with that being said, if you have any questions about the types of

measurements we do in our office or looking for, you know, a better, you know, better way, a better journey to improve your health and well-being for you or a family member, I definitely challenge you to reach out. Toro, T-U-R-O, family chiropractic.com. And we hope to just keep the conversation going. Thanks for stopping by. We'll see you next time. See you the next one. You've been listening to What the Health with Dr. Dan and Angela Toro, brought to you by Toro family chiropractic. To learn more about the resources mentioned on today's show or listen to past episodes, visit www.com.