Business Innovators Radio - Self-Manipulation: What Are Those Noises?

Episode Date: July 12, 2023

Who hasn’t cracked their knuckles from time to time? And sometimes – forced or not – other joints in the body will make quite a racket. The question is often asked as to whether this is a good thing and if it could be the cause of issues like arthritis down the road. All these questions lead back to a very simple one – What are those noises?In this episode, Dr. Dan and Angela discuss the topic of self-manipulation, dispel some myths, and share what is actually making those “cracking” and “popping” noises. They’ll also reveal when it’s not a good idea to force movement in joints and what you can do instead to reintroduce motion into your life. Don’t miss your chance to find out if self-manipulation is all it’s cracked up to be in this episode of the What the Health?! Podcast.To learn more about this and other hot health topics, follow us on social media and subscribe to our WTH podcast. If you have a specific health question or would like to find out if we can help you with a personal health challenge, check out our office page or contact us at 412-369-0400/ [e-mail] always, our mission is to help you Get Healthy and Stay Healthy for a Lifetime!What the Health?!https://businessinnovatorsradio.com/what-the-health/Source: https://businessinnovatorsradio.com/self-manipulation-what-are-those-noises

Welcome to What the Health, where anything health is fair game as we tackle the trends and bust the myths about health and wellness. Here are your hosts, Dr. Dan and Angela Toro. And welcome to another episode of What the Health. I am Dr. Dan here with my co-host. Angela, welcome back, guys. Our usual disclaimer here. We're here for informational purposes only in no way offering individualized medical advice. Always talk to your trusted health care provider.

for making changes to your lifestyle. So that being said, although this one again today is a, another one that people ask about a lot, which is, you know, is self-adjusting. Self-manipulation.

Self-manipation. I don't even like the term of adjustment, because you can't really self-adjusting. So what do we mean by that? Okay, so a couple different categories that I think of here. You know, first off, as you start getting an adjustment, okay, chiropractic adjustment.

is designed to restore motion and alignment to the spine, okay, which by doing so in turn reflects better nervous system function and efficiency. So as we get the spine moving and aligned more appropriately, then the nervous system starts waking up and because the nervous system controls and coordinates every other function in the body, you know, then the idea is, you know, everything else starts performing functioning better, okay? So rather than your engine, running with a big throttle on, you know, running, it runs, but not very efficiently. You take the throttle, you take your foot off the brake, and it starts running much more efficiently and performing appropriately how it should, and you start to heal the way you're designed.

I wish there was a book on. So, somebody's read a book about that. But anyway, there's a lot of stuff on the internet out there. You know, people doing, like, self-manipulations. You can go back to, like, even, like, you know, middle school, high school, when you had the chairs and the dance. That's immediately what I think about. You put your back, your arch over the back of the chair. Yeah, that chair back is literally right in the middle and you can just push up against the desk and push yourself back into the chair and you get a pop.

You know, you can grab your leg and you twist it one way or another and you get a pop. You know, the neck is the absolute worst when people, you know, they're turning their head and turning and rotating and they push their chin and they quits. wrap their neck one way and then turn their head and do it the other way. You know, people picking each other up and just, wrestlers are famous for this. Many people in the sports world, you know, picking you up, bear hugging you from behind, stepping on each other's backs. I mean, these are all things that are just,

they're all things that literally will add motion to the body. They'll add motion to the spine. It's at what detriment. And I see this, especially parents do this to their kids. I mean, I remember our dad used to do this. You know, I remember our dad used to do this. Oh, yeah. Or the back to back.

Yeah, back to back. You'd like arms and pull yourself over the, you know, over the back. And it was like, oh my gosh, it feels so good, you know, because you're popping a joint. Okay. Anytime you pop a joint. Yeah, we both sit here and crack. Yeah. And again, you know, cracking your knuckles is one thing because, again, you're just, there's not really a lot of nerve tissue associated with that joint.

versus the spine, which is literally protecting your nervous system, you know, your spinal cord, which is the direct length from your brain to the rest of the body. So this idea, when you move a joint, you actually send an increase of what's called proprioception up to the brain. Okay. And proprioception, it comes from receptors in the muscles and the joints that tell your brain where your body is in space. And I've used this term before. If you close your eyes and you take your left or right hand and you hold it above your head, you know, even with your eyes closed, that your hand is above your head.

That comes from the input of proprioception. Okay? The receptors in your joints and muscles know where they are in space. And so your nervous system can recognize where your joints are in space and where your muscles are in space because of those receptors. So when you pop a joint, you're literally sending that rush of input into your brain. Well, proprioception works in combination with another input called nociception. And nociception works in opposite of proprioception.

And nociception is not pain itself, but if you have too much nociceptive input into the brain, then what happens is it boils over like a teapot hitting a boiling point it starts to whistle. And so too much nociceptive input, meaning the joints are not moving, they're restricted. And so nociception is now telling the brain that, hey, the body is not moving the way it should.

So too much of a lack of motion will start to spill over. And if nociceceptive input, input reaches a threshold, that will be the body starting to experience pain. Okay. So it has everything to do with this balance of nociceception versus appropriate exception when we're talking about joint position and motion. So when you pop a joint like that, you're getting a rush of proprioceptive input. The simplest example is what happens if you like, you know, slam your finger in a car door? What's the immediate, what's the first thing you want to do?

You want to shake your hand, right? Because that shaking motion, you know, stimulates the proprioceptive input up into the brain. And that proprioceptive input then inhibits the pain. So that, you know, again, the body works in balance with this. Now, the challenge being when you're talking about actually doing corrective adjustments, you need to balance hyper mobility, okay, too much flexibility or movement, especially with the ligaments and the tendons, joints around the spine, too much movement with too little movement.

And again, you don't want to be a bobblehead. Yes, you don't want to be a bobblehead. You don't want your, you know, your head from off. And again, your flexibility is much more as a kid. And then you hit spinal skeletal maturity around 20 to 24 years of age. And you hit the tension on your ligaments surrounding the joints. And they come to a maturity level. And then, you know, that's kind of where they are for life, depending on, you know, depending on certain injuries.

But what happens is when you're doing self-manipulations, you're, you know, taking your neck and you're twisting it one way. twisting it another way or you're you know chronically cracking your back you know over a chair or chronically twisting you get a rush of proprioceptive input so it feels good for 10 15 20 minutes but then what happens you feel like you need to do it again okay because you didn't correct anything you artificially stimulated that proprioceptive input to the brain feels good it's almost like you know eating a cookie you know rush or a contact um of everything so So, yeah, we're getting this idea of, sorry, I had to pause there for a quick second, my lovely son coming back from volleyball practice.

So, yeah, as I was saying, you know, you get this rush of proprioceptive input, you know, feels good for a minute to, you know, 10, 15 minutes, but then you feel like you have to do it again. So the idea is you're actually creating, especially when we look at things like the spine, you're creating hyper mobile joints when you do that on a repetitive basis. You can actually get to a point where you can tear. You have these micro-tares, just like you get micro-tares and muscle when you break them down. You get micro-tears and ligaments and actually start to create hyper-mobilities.

And that's why this hypermobility, it's like, boom, you get a rush-appropriate of input. It feels great, but then 10, 15 minutes, 20 minutes later, you're like, Well, now I feel like I'm right back to where I was. Rather than, you know, where a good chiropractor, you know, they are going to analyze and differentiate where is your spine maybe moving too much versus where is it not moving enough? Where is it restricted? Because that's where you need to go and give the adjustment at. And very interestingly enough, when you do those self-manipulations, you are moving the joints that are already moving. and usually moving too much.

So not only are, you know, especially in relationship to the area that's restricted, okay? In the area that's restricted, chiropractors call subluxation, okay? So when you're, when you're popping your own spine, you know, in the lower back, the mid back, the neck, you are, you know, actually accentuating the discrepancy between too much motion and too little motion. And so you're creating these, these hypermobilities, you know, up against these restrictions. And so anytime you have a really hypermobile segment, it's moving too much up against the segment that's not moving enough, you have a lot of biomechanical tension. You know, rather than motion moving fluidly, if you think of like taking a jump rope and, you know, just twisting it around or you're going to create a wave, you know, or even think of like the ropes, the exercise. Yeah, the big battle exercise ropes that, you know, people swing up and down.

You get a nice fluid motion from, you know, from where you're. You move it up and down, you know, and you get the wave down the rope. Versus if I came in there and, like, you know, grab the rope, you know, you would get, you know, a different wave, right? Because you're changing the mobility. You're changing the fluid motion from one end of the rope to the other. And the same idea, this biomechanical tension from too much movement of the spine to too little motion of the spine. you need to, you know, you need to make sure that that motion is moving appropriately and healthfully. And that's where, you know, the chiropractor that's well trained in understanding where is your spine supposed to be moving,

how much is it supposed to be moving in one area to another? Because there are some changes when you go from the neck to the mid back. Yeah. The neck has a lot of motion. The mid back, all the ribs are attached, you know, and that ribcage is holding that mid spine. So there's a little bit of motion in your, you know, middle. back where the ribs are attached, but not nearly as much motion as the neck and the lower back. So that's where, you know, having a trained chiropractor look at that biomechanical tension

and, you know, measuring too much motion versus not enough motion and knowing exactly where to give those adjustments, that is going to create, you know, a much better, more fluid biomechanical motion from top to bottom. And probably more lasting change as well as opposed to the sort of the quick fix like you were saying. Yeah, and that's just it. And so, you know, we just did a whole episode on like the, you know, being sore and like, oh, shoot, like is this a good thing or a bad thing? And usually when you're going through that corrective process, sometimes those areas that

have been restricted, rigid for a long period of time, they may even have some arthritis or what's called degenerative joint disease on them and it's like visible on X-ray, you're actually seeing bone changes and disc spacing changes. When you're literally seeing that on X-ray, as you start to get those joints moving a little bit better, then your body can be sore after that because you're literally adding motion to where it hasn't been. I always use the example of braces, you know? A lot of us have had braces. If you have a, if you yourself or, you know, you know of people that have braces on,

They go and get their braces tightened, you know, once a week or, you know, every other week or once a month, especially early on in the beginning. They're getting them tweaked and tightened every so often. And after each time that you get tweaked and tightened, your mouth is sore for a couple of days, right? And so the same idea of when you're doing a corrective adjustment in an area that's been very restrictive, especially if it's been there for a long period of time, you could be a little bit sore afterwards. But what happens is, you know, even though it may be sore, what you can find is people are, people are. We're like, oh my gosh, I can move so much more freely. And when your spine is moving freely like that, then you don't feel the need to do the twist, the self-manipulation.

Right. You don't feel the need like, oh, my gosh, I have to turn and pop my back or I got to twist my neck and pop or, you know, push my midback up against a chair. You have much less of a, you feel much less of a need to do that rather than when, you know, when your spine is moving and aligned appropriately. So I guess the question becomes, because I hear people asking you or, you know, so people have been, you know, they're coming, they're getting adjusted regularly now,

but maybe they still find, like, if they turn a certain way, they do get that, you know, pop up or crack, yeah. So is that, because they'll be like, oh, well, is that, is that okay? And so I think that's really, you know, that's the question is, you know, we're not talking about,

We know like the herky jerky movements. You don't want to be forcing it. But, you know, again, they've been getting adjusted regularly. I know me personally, it's like my neck, but the adjustment you always do in my neck. Sometimes I'm just like, it feels stuck and then it just kind of releases. So it's like are those type of things, if it's not being forced? Is it okay if you, is it concerning or is it okay when you're, you know,

hearing those things and feeling those things just from kind of moving? Yeah. And that is a great question. And that's what we're really kind of getting to the heart of this podcast about is that, you know, as I start to get corrective care and I'm moving my neck or my low back a little bit more and I'm getting those pops or clicking sounds, is that a good thing or is that a detrimental thing? And at the end of the day, I always tell people your body does self-adjust, right? I mean, you go through, you get up in the morning and, you know, you lift your arms up over your head.

Yeah, you might get a little pop in the mid back or you get a little pop in the neck. And I tell people, if you are stretching, you know, you're going through a normal healthy stretching your routine, especially if you're well hydrated, you're warmed up, you've got your heart rate up a little bit. You know, you're stretching and you hear that pop. Usually it's usually one of two things that's happening. Either there's gas that's built up in a joint and gas will start to build up in joints that aren't moving appropriately. really. And so what's happening is that gas is a, I just popped my knuckles right there. And you maybe hear my knuckles pop a little bit. But that gas is being built up. And when you

open up a joint space, you're creating a vacuum. And then it eventually reaches a point where that pressure is opening up and allowing, you know, gas to equilibrate. That, that noise, that gas being released is kind of the pop sound that you will hear. And if you're doing it, you know, doing that under normal healthy stretching routine. Let's say you're doing a cat camel stretch or you're just gently bringing your arms up overhead or you're turning very gently, you're bending very gently in the low back or you're activating a muscle group and you hear a little click or pop in the low back or even the tailbone. Like if you're activating your muscles or stretching your muscles and you hear that popping sound, that's usually a very good

healthy release. You're just adding motion. to the joints. Where it gets detrimental is what, again, what I talked about earlier is when you're forcing it, you're taking one part of your body, you know, your hand or your fist and trying to force your neck one way or another or you're using a table or a chair

or someone else that's, you know, forcing your body into a position that, you know, that might feel good temporarily, but ultimately creating more, you know, hyper mobility and repetitive stress patterns. So, I guess to summarize that, so if your body is naturally self-adjusting, that is okay. If you are forcing your body to make a sound, yeah, that's not good.

So going back to what you said, you're going to hear usually one of two major sounds. You know, your body can make a lot of different sounds. You know, that can be a whole podcast. You know, sounds your body makes. Definitely bring my son and sons in on that one. but, you know, I just mentioned the gas being released and that's more about popping sound. You know, sometimes more like the clicking or the snapping sound. Again, what happens is, you know, if your body is tense or tight, you'll have a tendon that's

pulling and, you know, it's the position of that tendon in relationship to another bone or muscle or tendon. It may be hitting a point of a bony prominence, okay? And that tendon is kind of like hitting that point of tension and the tension and and just kind of snapping over that bone. And again, it's just, it's really a position change. And a lot of times it's a position change in the presence of, you know, tight musculature. If that happens, again, you know, not necessarily a bad thing, but it can be a reflection of,

hey, there's tension or tightness in that area of the body. If it happens, you know, especially if it's happening repetitively, usually the pops, you know, the gas being released, that's where you can, you know, You know, you'll feel that, you'll do that, and then you won't be able to pop that joint again for, you know, 20, 30 minutes. The clicking or the snapping will usually be a little bit more repetitive, you know, like you could turn your, you can lift your shoulder up. Yeah, you can click click in your shoulder or you can be bending your knee

or, you know, bending your low back to the side, turning your neck, and you hear that same repetitive clickingness. That's usually a little bit more tightness, tension in the musculature and the tendons. that's popping over that bony prominence. And again, usually reflective of tightness in that area of the body. So again, when you're going through corrective chiropractic work and ideally trying to help the spine move and align better, you're going to get to a point where those repetitive clicks start to go away. And again, I notice when I'm well adjusted my neck, my low back, you know, my spine ingestion. general is moving much more freely and I really don't feel the need that I need to, you know,

pop, you know, constantly turn and stretch because, you know, just my natural normal movements feel good. You know, I had my adjustment. My chiropractor came into town and, you know, we kind of swapped out adjustments the other day. She gave me a phenomenal adjustment. And again, it's been like two solid weeks now and it's the best my neck has moved in a little while after not getting adjusted. And so this idea that when we get the spine better aligned and moving, then this need, this feel of the need to self-move, self-manipulate, you know, becomes much less. And again, doing that less and just working on more of a stretching, strengthening of the spine and the neuromusculature is going to help you in the long run rather than just creating the increased hypermovember. abilities up against a restricted or subluxation segment. So hopefully, I know, I said a lot of words in there.

And that's why we do it. I mean, we recommend the stretches that we do to people. And if you go on our website, Turot, URO, family chiropractic.com and go under, we have a whole stretching library. And again, they're all, you'll notice that they're very dynamic type stretches. So again, like the cat camel moving the spine through the full range of motion, the happy, happy hummingbird, like, you know, getting that shoulder mobility because, you know, unless you just finished a workout and you're nice and warm, you really don't want to be doing

prolonged held stretches, but doing those ones that allow, again, you kind of work the joints in the spine through the range of motion, allows it to get that movement. And then again, if you're doing those and you're doing them gently and you get that, sounds like if you get those little pops or clicks, it's, it's okay as long as you're not forcing it, you know, by yanking, jerking, doing those really, those really tough movements. Yeah. And again, it's like anything at the end of the day, you know, can you, you know, do that to yourself with, you know, I'm not going to tell you, you can't. I mean, well, you are, but you're not going to know. I'm telling you it's not smart in the long line,

but again, you know, if it, you know, if people do it, you know, you're just, you're going, against, you know, an unnatural movement and possibly creating more of a detrimental environment. You're making it harder for yourself ultimately in the long run. In the long run, absolutely. And again, you know, chiropractors just so, you know, trainers and other health professionals go and train for years and understanding not just the science behind it, but then also clinically how to change it in a very positive outlook. You know, so those of us in the profession, that's why some of those videos that I see

online just with you know people who even trained trained or untrained just some of the ridiculousness of the the motions and the just the full body manipulations that I see my goodness it just seems like a little bit of overkill so in any event you know if you're with a good health trusted health care professional you know keep certainly you know getting getting their advice moving forward but if you're if you're looking for that trusted health professional or you know looking for someone in your area you know certainly feel free to reach out and we can help you find that that person for you so thanks for joining us with this episode of what are those noises and should I self-manipulate and we will plan on seeing you with the next one thanks guys see you next time

you've been listening to what the health with dr. Dan and Angela Toro brought to you by Toro family chiropractic. To learn more about the resources mentioned on today's show or listen to past episodes, visit www.com.com.com.