Sheryl J. Moore is President and CEO of Moore Market Intelligence and Wink, Inc.
00:00Welcome to Influential Entrepreneurs, bringing you interviews with elite business leaders and experts, sharing tips and strategies for elevating your business to the next level.Here's your host, Mike Saunders.Hello and welcome to this episode of Influential Entrepreneurs.This is Mike Saunders, the authority positioning coach.Today we have with us Cheryl J. Moore, who's president and CEO of Moore Market Intelligence and Wink Incorporated.Cheryl, welcome to the program.Thanks for having me, Mike.Hey, I'm looking forward to chatting with you because you know a thing or two about
00:36annuities and life insurance, and I know that that's something that a lot of times peopleget some type of misconceptions about.So I'm excited to learn from your perspectives in the industry, but give us a little bitof your story and background before we dive into talking about your book.You bet.So I've been in the life insurance industry for 26 years.I started working for an insurance.company that was a big seller of life insurance and annuities. And I had a personal experience with
01:05annuities when I invested money in this thing called a 401k. I did not know that you could losemoney in a 401k. I was very young at that time in my 20s. And when I did lose money, I complainedto my boss and said, you know, what can I do with my money? I don't like losing money. And he said,well, why didn't you buy an indexed annuity? And that kind of started as a snowball for me learningabout these products and becoming very passionate about them and wanting to educate the massesabout the good, bad, and indifferent about annuities so that people can make a decision on whetheror not they're right for them. Today, I run my own market research firm, as well as a insuranceconsulting firm. You know, it's funny when your boss asked that question, it reminds me of that old
01:56statement you don't know what you don't know and it's interesting that sometimes when people bringup a topic um like that well why didn't you buy this like as a matter of fact um then you had to go outand do some investigating you probably did not google fixed index annuity purchase you know becauseit's a whole world so you wrote a book called i bought fixed annuities from your perspectiveand your personal experience um what did you find out what did you start that research processbecause you owning a research firm is probably just ingrained in your DNA to not just go out andbuy something. You had to research it first, right? You're not wrong, Mike. You know, I headedto the very first place I could think of where I thought they must have great information about
02:42annuities, and that was the library. Unfortunately, I did not find. That was a minute or two ago.Yes, it was. Well, I didn't find much information about annuities there, to be honest with you. So I triedthis new thing called the internet and all that I could find was negative and inaccurate informationabout these products and that's really what got me passionate about educating people was lookingfor more information during my own buying process and when I found out so much of the informationis really biased because of the media outlets advertisers and their agendas that really put a fireunder my feet to do something to make sure that people could gain access to credible informationabout these products. Yeah. And I'm a wordsmith and I love when I hear certain words
03:36and credible is a huge one because there's too many times that people hear some information.They don't check the source and they assume that it's credible and it's not. So that lends itselfto what I feel like a lot of consumers misunderstand fixed annuities. So from your research,search and your personal experience, what do you feel is one of the biggest misconceptions thatpeople have about annuities? The biggest misconception I run against is that annuities are illiquid.That couldn't be further from the truth. There's a lot of features that allow people to takemoney out of their annuity. And there's even a provision where you can take up to typically 10%every year without paying any penalties on the contract. But that's just one example of a liquidity
04:24feature on annuities. The second biggest thing I would say is that people don't know this is a productthat will guarantee them a paycheck for the rest of their lives. So we see a lot of negativeand accurate information being published, but none of the merits or value proposition of theannuities are being publicized. You know, I think that when you think of, you know, like I mentionedwords. A lot of times people just love that word guarantee. You know, when someone goes, oh,you're guaranteed, whatever it is. But when you're guaranteed not to lose money and you're guaranteedconsistent returns, that kind of makes people sit up and take notice and go, you know, that feelsgood. Talk a little bit more about some of the guarantees that comes with the fixed annuities.
05:14because I think that when we're talking about fixed anything, you know, like fixed annuities,what's it fixed too?So let's talk about guarantees and then what's that fixed portion?What's the significance there?Yeah, fixed annuities actually credit a guaranteed interest rate.And that's credited every year for a certain number of years.So, for example, if I bought a five-year fixed annuity with a credited rate of five and a half percent,I'm guaranteed to receive five and a half percent every year for five years on that contract.
05:48But, you know, the other thing that I think people need to be aware of is that the guarantees in an annuitycontract are only as good as the claims paying ability of the insurance company, which basicallymeans the insurance company has to be financially healthy in order for them to make good on thoseguarantees. Now, in my career in the life insurance industry, only a handful of insurance companieshave become insolvent and been able to pay their own claims before being acquired by anotherinsurance company that made good on their guarantees. But that's something that everybody needsto be aware of. But these products are chock full of guarantees. And again, my favorite guarantee isthe guaranteed paycheck for life. Because the number one fear of a
06:38Americans as running out of retirement money, Mike, and that ranks higher than fear of death or publicspeaking. Wow. Now, I mean, if you were to say, do you think people fear running out of moneyin retirement? Of course, I would say, and most people say, yeah, yeah, yeah, but ranking above thefear of public speaking and those kind of things, that's pretty huge. But like you said,the guarantee of having that annuity tied to a reputable company, that's huge.And also having some of those features inside the annuity to make sure that the guaranteedincome for life makes me think, this is not something you just buy off the shelf.So is it there something that you need to make sure that you're, you know, like you can't
07:27just go to your homeowners and auto agent and go, oh yeah, he told me about this annuity.I should get it from there because.maybe they're not an expert.Well, that's a good point, Mike.I like to draw attention to the fact that there are a lot of different kinds of financialservices professionals.And most consumers do not know that the person who sells you auto and homeowners insurancelikely does not sell life insurance or annuities.
07:54And likewise, the guy that sells them their mutual funds and stocks likely is not goingto talk with them about annuities or life insurance, even if they express.that those products are in their best interests. And it has a lot to do with politics and the way thatthese financial professionals get paid. But the bottom line is that if a consumer decides that anannuity is what's in their best interests, they need to make sure and put their foot down and say,this is what I need until they find the right person to help them with that purchase.Yeah. You know, I think that it reminds me, too, of like the old saying, I think Stephen Covey madeit famous begin with the end in mind so where do you want to be so when when advisors are talking to
08:39their clients it's they're sitting down with a client going what does retirement look like to youdo you want to sit around and do nothing or do you want to travel the world once a month you know soyou know on those two ends of the spectrum people are going to fall somewhere in between andhow much money do you need in retirement and how much do you have now we need to close the gap butI think that a lot of times people that are preparing for retirement assume like what we weresaying earlier about like, oh, well, just just do that 401K. They assume that their money in themarket is the way that it should go, but market volatility is a killer. So talk a little bitabout market volatility for retirement in security and then how fixed annuities helps to address
09:23that. Yeah. So, I mean, I think that our society has been conditioned to believe.that you should have money in the market and that eventually, even if you suffer some losses,the market will rebound and you'll get your money back. And that may be a fact. I'm not an experton the stock market by any means, much less 401Ks, but I can tell you that for me, it feelsuncomfortable to lose money. I don't like that feeling. And therefore, I'm not really comfortablewith putting all of my money in the market and hoping that it comes back.So, you know, there is a certain floor or level of income that I feel I need to protectin my retirement so that I have enough to, you know, pay my mortgage, pay a car payment,
10:11pay my credit cards, pay my health insurance costs, all those things that are guaranteedto exist in retirement.And for those expenses, I want to be guaranteed that income floor.And that's where an annuity comes in really great.As far as market volatility, you know, there are annuities that can allow you to take advantage of when the market goes up, up, up.But those products have the potential to lose money as well.And a great product, if you're intolerant to market volatility, is fixed annuities because they do offer that guaranteed interest rate for a specified number of years.And even an indexed annuity is a great alternative for some people who say,
10:55you know, I'm comfortable with the prospect of getting zero percent if the market goes down,but I want to earn a little bit more than a fixed annuity, which is more like a certificate ofdeposit. So there are choices here, regardless of the purchasers risk tolerance, but I think thatreally what some people need to realize is that the narrative of keeping all your money intosecurities or stocks or the market is not really right for everybody, Mike.Yeah.Yeah, I mean, and you can ask 10 financial advisors and get 42 opinions.So I know that everyone has an opinion on what percentage you should leave in the market
11:37and then put in these other products.But let's think about the everyday person listening right now that's trying to evaluatewhether a fixed annuity really belongs in their plan.And what are maybe two or three questions they should be asking their advisor to make sure that it's a right fit for them?Well, I think the first question is, you know, what are the features in this annuity that made you think that this may be appropriate for me?I think that that's the most important question.And really, it's not a question, but you need to be asking yourself, do I trust this person that I'm working with who'sadvising this annuity because, you know, this is a very important purchase decision. The typical
12:23consumer is putting a $175,000 nest egg into this contract. So you want to make sure that the personthat you're working with is not only reputable, but somebody who you can trust. And then I think thatthe other question you need to be asking yourself is, do I feel comfortable with the insurance companythat's offering this annuity, just again because of those reasons we already mentioned aboutthe financial stability of the life insurance company, because annuities are consideredlong-term contracts. Yeah, for sure. You know, I think that that's, sometimes it's, you readthese personal development books and it's like, you know, you need to ask yourself these questionsthat make you think and make you second guess, and second guess in a good way, but second guess that
13:12decision. Sometimes we need to sleep on it like our grandparents told us and that's a great thing.So now it's shipped over to, you know, the same kinds of mindset. But what do you wish morefinancial advisors understood about how to communicate the value of fixed index annuities?Because I would venture to say if we asked a hundred financial advisors, there's a large percentageof them that are not up to speed the way that they should be on annuities. Well, I think thatfor those advisors who incorporate annuities into their practice when appropriate for theclient, it's important to understand that consumers will often have a bad taste in theirmouth when you say the A word annuity. But if you explain what annuities do and say, you know,
14:01even if you live to be 150 years old, you're going to continue to receive a check from theinsurance company every month. Now, that's something that people are really interested in andrespond very positively to. So I think if you have that conversation and you first talk about what anannuity does, rather than mention the annuity word and say what it is, then that opens up theconsumer's feelings and their acceptance of being able to listen to the story about annuitiesand not just write it off because they hear the A word. You know, and it kind of like, it reminds me, too,of everyone's favorite radio station, W-I-I-F-M. Do you know that analogy?What's in it for me? Yep. And that's the way that consumers think. You know, here's this
14:51advisor starting their wind-up to the pitch. And they're like, okay, well, I'm listening, butwhat's in it for me? And they don't care about this, you know, nuance or this feature. They wantto hear those, you know, comforting words of guarantee and stream of income forlife so that you don't run out of money, that's what they're thinking. And I think that your pointthere is so strong that advisors need to realize that and then learn how to communicate the valueof the annuities without saying annuity because when the client hears, oh, yeah, you're going to havethis and this and this benefit. They're like, yes, that's great. Well, the one tool that we use is anannuity. There's many types. Let me show you some options. Absolutely, Mike. And unfortunately,
15:35it's easier said than done. So it takes some practice. So I know that you do a lot of advocacywork in the industry and it's made a real impact on how consumers think about annuities.What if you learned about human behavior that makes the retirement income conversation reallyemotionally charged because it's not just, yeah, I'm going to order my groceries online and gopick them up tomorrow. This becomes an emotionally charged conversation for consumers.Yeah. Well, you know, Mike, most everyone knows somebody who's lived beyond their 80s. And, you know, we even see people on the news who live past 100. And when you talk with consumers about the prospect of potentially running out of money in retirement or living too long, that's something that really resounds with consumers because this is a relevant conversation for most people today. Most consumers in the U.S. don't even know what is thatmagic number that I need to have saved for my retirement. So it is an emotionally chargedconversation. And I think that by having a financial professional that is an educator rather
16:47than a salesperson is really key, they can help the consumer to understand what theiroptions are and the costs and benefits of any retirement income product and really help theconsumer to discern whether or not these products are a right purchase for them.Yeah, 100%.I resonate with your education comment because I've heard it said many times peoplelike to buy, but they don't like to be sold.And the only way you can get people to the point of making a buying decision is for themto understand and to teach them and educate them and be that advocate and go, you know,
17:25here's your outcome you just described.Here's some options.It really doesn't matter to me what you choose.But let me show you some pros and cons and things like that.think that education aspect is so huge. Too many times, salespeople, advisors want to go,here's this, buy it, sign here. Not necessarily in that order, but that's the feeling thatconsumers get. So where do you feel like is that first step that advisors need to start thatprocess of learning how to properly educate? I think the key is to first ask the prospect,
17:58what does retirement look like for you? I mean, and then just sit and listen, Mike.be quiet, don't interrupt, don't suggest, just listen.And that's really going to open up the floodgates for the client to divulge all theinformation, their hopes, their dreams, their concerns, so that it can be a greatprocess for both the insurance agent and the prospect.Listening is such a huge opportunity because if you make assumptions, you thinkthat the prospect said this and meant that, and you go off down that trail, but they're like,well, I kind of meant this, and you're like, oh, I guess I should have just listened.
18:42So that is just powerful.Well, Cheryl, this has been some really great insights.If someone is interested in learning more about picking up a copy of your book or your marketresearch, what's the best way that they can reach out, learn more, and connect with you?Yeah, the best way is just to hit more market intelligence.com.and that's M-O-O-O-R-E, Market Intelligence.com.That'll get you to my website, and all of our books that are available can be purchased rightthrough the site.
19:13Excellent.Cheryl, thank you so much for coming down.It's been a real pleasure chatting with you today.Thanks, Mike.I appreciate you.You've been listening to Influential Entrepreneurs with Mike Saunders.To learn more about the resources mentioned on today's show or listen to past episodes,Visit www.
19:32www.Influential EntrepreneursRadio.com.
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