Business of Speed Podcast - Justin Bell on the Gap Between Talent and Obsession

Episode Date: March 30, 2026

Justin Bell is a world championship-winning driver, the son of five-time Le Mans winner Derek Bell, a motorsport broadcaster, and someone who will tell you exactly what he thinks whether you ask or not. That combination made this one of the most honest conversations we've had on Business of Speed.We go deep on what it's really like to be a second-generation driver — not the PR version, the actual version. Justin talks about discovering racing at the Formula Ford Festival as a teenager, getting humbled by Mika Häkkinen in his 25th race, and the gap between raw speed and the mental infrastructure to maximize it. He draws a direct line from his own career to Lando Norris and explains why both of them could have become "almost men" without the right support.Justin reveals for the first time that a heart attack at 44 played a role in his transition from driving to broadcasting. He explains his philosophy of live TV: that you should be on the verge of getting fired every broadcast, and why modern motorsport commentary has lost its edge. He also breaks down how he pitched his show at the Wynn, why fashion became a strategic brand decision, and the story about a 10-million-follower creator who couldn't sell tires versus a 30K account that moved real product.If you care about motorsport, personal brand, and what it actually takes to build a second career after the helmet comes off, this one's for you

Hola, Vincenzo. Lali, buongiorno, how are you? Doing well, how are you? Fantastic, as always, we get to talk to some pretty interesting people. Today, there is no less than the most interesting man in the world. At least that's what I've been referring to him as, to many people. He's quite fabulous. I saw your reaction, JB.

I have imposter syndrome right now. You know, we had a guest on last week that said imposter syndrome is not real. So it's only, it's in your head. Well, it is obviously only in your head. And I think most people have a, it's obviously not real, but there's definitely a moment that everybody goes, in whatever you do, goes, did they actually, have they worked out yet? I mean, as cool as they think. I mean, I think about it from, I mean, obviously, like Lewis Hamilton, there he is, couldn't be a bigger star in every way. i i watched him getting ready for his own photo shoot at the win he was in the wakenings theater during the grand prix week like on the wednesday and i was watching him and i went now that man that man is 100 authentic to himself there's no he doesn't need to think about being an imposter at all but i was just so mad it was so amazing to watch him not in the car but just controlling

that environment you know like he is such a megastar he's so and he's so creative i have no clue why i'm talking about him but i am not okay basically what i'm trying to say you i'm just giving you the balance the range but you have to live up to the initials like jb james bond there's a lot of other jack you know jensen button how do you feel about the the copycat jensen button stealing your jb i gotta think of all the jbs now yeah i i'm thinking you're good and good it's funny jensen obviously i know him well but he he i remember one time we we were at le mans and i didn't know him that well and we were just talking about oh you're in la i'm in la and i was interviewing him and i don't know somehow i gave him my card and it says jbtv and he

went but that's what i i'm jbtv and i was like well actually no you're not i am and i'm the one with no Formula One World Championship and without all the money. But I am older than you. So I'm claiming JB. And that is it. You're the OG JB. Let's set the record straight. Let's go with that. Let's go with that. Lali, you're very good at reinforcing a man's dwindling confidence. Well, that's great, because we're going to get into some like hardcore psychology right now. I want to talk to you about something that fascinates me. I'm a writer. So I'm profoundly attracted to origin stories and people's how how they become the people they become and also I love motorsports another aspect that fascinates me is the sons and daughters of

drivers there is a psychology there right and we've we've had the chance to speak to a few we talked to Connor Daly Derek Daly's son and he said you know what his dad was not really into pushing him into racing quite the opposite he he was like you show me you are obsessive and that You can't even live or breathe without racing and I'll help you out. Otherwise, no, thank you. We spoke to Tom Blomquist, his dad's Stig Blomquist,

incredible endurance racing, rally career. And then of course your dad, five-time Le Mans winner, three-time Rolex 24, et cetera. How was that growing up in that? Because you didn't take to it as early as, you weren't sat in a cart

when you were six years old. Exactly. So I'm fascinated by your journey. I want to hear a little bit about it. Yeah, it is. And I think it's an interesting one, isn't it? Because I think we all reflect back on our own paths to wherever you are in life. And, you know, you do a little retrospective modification of the story

because it just sounds cooler. I actually don't need to so much. You know, my dad was a, he's a farmer by trade, you know. So, you know, that's how he got into racing on his stepfather's farm near goodwood hearing sterling marston driving and the mercedes and things out up at goodwood six miles away so for him it was a very intuitive like you know instinctive like a compelling draw no one knew at that point what the riches and fames could be of being a driver you know i mean you had sterling and fangio but as a young person you just wanted to get into it and he did but

that's his story mine when you're second generation it can't be an accident you can't you're not living in a vacuum but you in your own way you are because you are inoculated a little from the the roots of the of the industry I think I mean I'll put it simply I had never been to a small car race I didn't do karting I did motocross because we had a farm and dad wasn't not pushing me um to be honest I wasn't desperately hungry for it either as an early teens it just wasn't my environment but then what happened was I went to the Formula Ford festival with my best friend James and I came back home and I was like dad I've just been watching people my age they're my age racing they're not your age I mean how the hell am I I want to do it that's when he was like

F are we gonna tell your mom that's what he said I mean literally words out of his mouth but there's a point to it is at the time i was really great friends with um i'm not gonna glamorize it and say we were dating it was a failed dating attempt but chloe mason whose father's nick mason who's drummer for the pink floyd very involved in sports car racing nick is with dad at the time and i remember talking to her she's never been to a pub and watched nick playing covers of you know acdc you know he she's only been to wembley yeah and sat on the edge of the stage or madison square gardens right i'd only ever been to the nürburgring and le mans data you know i don't understand yeah side of the stage watching hans stuck and jochen and dad and

everybody so it i'm not saying that sound spoiled but what it was that was my exposure to it yeah And I was just a kid and at home, dad didn't really talk about cars. So when I suddenly discovered it, Lali, I was like, oh, now this, this could be me. And it was very eye-opening in a way when you're with, especially if you have a father who, who sort of compartmentalizes his racing a bit. And for dad, it was very instinctive. He wasn't a, okay, Justin, you've got to do this and that. And then you turn the wheel this much and you do that.

He was just like, kind of get out there and do it. And eventually you go quicker than people. And then you, you know, he's, he was, he's just like the difference. I remember at the time someone said is if you have McEnroe and Lendl, who were two of the top tennis players of that era, Lendl was a mathematical tennis player, right? Everything was perfect. You could measure McEnroe.

It's like, you shouldn't be able to hit the ball. He shouldn't really. Now I'm not saying that was dad, but we were, he just did it. he didn't have to think much about it so and i think it was also coincidental with remember we had autosport in in europe that was the magazine and over here you had motor racing news or something and you had it on the weekend was motor racing unless you were into it was not in the public consciousness as much as is now with social media now you know i think these young kids that's so exposed we can get into that later but you know they're so exposed in

every way that i think the objective and the prize at the end of through that door is so compelling that i i'm not always sure you start with the right intentions you know so and that was my story so i just got going and and i i sorely suffered from not having done karting My first race was Mika Hakan and Alam at Niche on the grid with me. And how many, no, that was in Formula Ford. In Formula Ford it was, and it wasn't them. When I went to Vauxhall Lotus in year two, so I'd done 24 races by then. How many races had Mika done by then?

He won three world championships, I mean, I think, or two. I mean, thousands, thousands of races, you know. And there's me going, oh, this is my 25th race. and wondering why i got my ass handed to me so you started but you started in motocross like you were motocross when you were younger yeah what so what made you not want to follow any sort of motocross because i was absolutely there was a talent gap and a bravery gap i mean i remember being at my the track i was i won the championships there i was feeling pretty good about it and this team green kawasaki little panel van back then and for us it looked cool

now i realize it looks more like a rapist van but it's like you know it's you know what i mean the older connor line yeah yeah the windows but now that was considered flash back then and he got out and this little kid was like blonde haired five foot nothing in all his fancy team green kawasaki outfit didn't really say a word took off from the start i mean i remember going over some jumps and he's in the air above me taking out all of them in one go and i remember going may need to rethink of this career in this side of the sport i'm gonna go to four wheels because that's much better i mean i i think motocross or bike riding and there's been obviously some incredible drivers transfer across to cars you have a great feeling for traction you know you have a good sense of

balance and you also I mean I was always pretty stunningly good at standing starts because which unfortunately you don't do in sports cars but in standing starts because you know when you got 30 kids 30 boys in a row going for a gap six foot wide the other side of a field you get pretty sporty on your starts you know you got every incentive to get there fast so I there were some transferable balance skills and things but you just reminded me of when I was a young kid I was Jeremy McGrath he was like really like the guy and you just reminded me of him and Jeff Emig at the starting line and the gates are about to go down and it's like jockeys right and you're right there's this natural funnel and the cream rises because these guys really get to that first

corner I'm getting a little bit of chills it was such an exciting part of my early childhood yeah so I used to rely on great starts to make up for my lousy qualifying you know I mean I'd be like I'm fifth, but I'll be third. There you go. Take the lead. I look like Charles Leclerc in a Ferrari these days, you know, with my little turbo. There you go. Eating mushrooms.

So let's go back to the carts or just to four wheels for a second. Because you mentioned Alan and Mika. Did your dad give you any preparation there? I think I thought maybe I heard you in a pot in an episode of something where you said your dad basically said, there's the middle. That's the apex. Go figure it out. It was actually, did he give you any advice or was it kind of figured out? No, of course he did.

But he, it was more on. So I did the Jim Russell racing school and he made me work for it on the farm to get the money to do it. And then he kind of matched it. And I went and drove this little former Ford and it was just up and down the straight changing gears. Not, not that appealing, really. I mean, it was exciting, but I'm like, I could see the corner going into this. And so I go, well, how am I not doing that?

So he then went, well, listen, I, we might as well rent a car, a former Ford and I'll let's go to brand's hatch. And it's got to be better than, I mean, why don't I teach you? But he, he was like, it was open testing. So you had everything out there, former three cars to, I mean, it was just chaos. and i was like dad i can't kind of get off the inside line he was like just you know go push it and get in the middle of the road and take your line and just focus on it and eventually people stop overtaking you as quickly and it's a weird thing because they do you know it's like a

commitment and then i i worked it out but he he he'd already had me drive him around the note i drove him around the nurburgring in a 911 when i was 14 that's pretty cool yeah that doesn't sound like young but back now but then it was kind of young and that's when he realized i could i had the raw skills to do this it was quite funny he was like actually i don't want to tell justin but if he wants to do it he could be pretty good i wish at 14 he'd told me that it might have been given me a three-year gap head start but his advice to be honest has come from how to conduct myself as a racing driver as a in the world of racing and you know the incredible thing about my father is there is no one anywhere that has ever said a bad thing about him and he and in a

sport where you are actually mano a mano fighting other guys for this to win and you race with these formidable teammates for that to be your legacy is pretty extraordinary and so that was more what he instilled in me was the ability to navigate this world it's lovely yeah he's been referred to as the most liked driver of his generation which is it's spectacular that's such that's such a beautiful legacy to have yeah yeah and be successful it's not like you know it's not like you're in an office and you go we're all high flies and little jimmy over there but he's the nice one you know it's all girls dating you know we don't normally want to be referred to as the nice guy lala we don't really want to be just the nice guy certainly he is he is he does combine it

all you know he does and you guys so you raced together i think on three different occasions right daytona once in 91 le mans in 92 and in 95 95 yeah yeah what uh so you you guys raced the 962 which must been pretty cool because that was the last year i think right yeah and that was my first that was my first le mans yeah so so how was that your for your first le mans it's you your father uh and tiff and was it tiff yeah uh what was that like uh i thought i was looking for a model of the car um was it it was a bit overwhelming i'm gonna i'm gonna lie i hadn't been racing that long again compared to today four years in you know oscars in you know lando's won a championship but in it back then it just wasn't quite like that you know i mean i went into

sports cars for lack of money to stay in single seaters and then the chance to race and it was the end of the era for the 962 but that's the car i'd seen my dad have all his success in during the 80s so it's such an iconic piece of kit and to drive down out of the pit lane at Le Mans when you're with your dad you know in a car at Le Mans where you're used to hearing all the crowd shouting for him and suddenly it's sort of kind of shouting for you a bit it was overwhelming and and it was terrible weather during the night and I remember saying to him so listen i mean it's on so far i mean how do we go down there in the night he just said it's still flat out just you know just go and hit whoever's in front and i remember it definitively this moment

where the way that windshield was and i mean you're doing well you know super 220 miles an hour or something and i remember as you got closer to the car in front the just imagine turning off your windshield wipers on the wherever you are the biggest highway you've got and you're just getting closer to a truck and it just and at night and it just turns white it turns like a white blanket so I remember looking out to the left hand side window to see the edge of the grass because I couldn't see straight in front you're looking outside and then you see the blue marker board 300 meters and you know where you are scared the crap out of myself most of the night but it was an amazing experience must have been so so lovely I want to know because I find that of many

professions drivers have a hard time hanging up the helmet like even when they hang it up they come back and then they're like well maybe I'll do this one when did when what was that moment that you're like you know what this is it I'm going to transition and I want to talk about this transition that you've seamlessly done but what was the tipping point when did you decide to hang it up it's such a good question because when you're a superstar driver like a Tom Christensen When Tom goes from Le Mans, you know, eight-time winner, when Tom hangs up his helmet, it's a bit of a statement in the sand. You know, I mean, it's like when Audi make a big deal of it, when Jenson, or Jenson didn't retire, right? He still keeps going, doing things because he's so young.

For most sports car drivers, it's sort of a gradual parking in the retirement home parking lot. It just kind of happens, you know. And I mean, I'll be totally candid. I, you know, racing for Dodge for all the end of the nineties. Then I went to Corvette as a factory driver as well. And then you start racing in for privateers and you start, you know, you become more of just a paid gun, hired gun. And then your career starts, you're fracturing and you're going, well, I'll race this car

one weekend and that one the other weekend. But I was also being asked to do TV at the time. And it just wasn't, I was feeling unfulfilled in my racing yet in my, still at that point, early is going, I mean, dad won two Le Mans in his, uh, you know, three Le Mans, two world championships in his forties. I'm thinking, Oh, you know, I should definitely stick at it. But I knew that my manufacturer days racing, which is the factory drive, the one you want when you get the money in them, you know, it's like, it's great. but racing for a gentleman driver I wasn't really cut out for it and I mean I think we you've got to be a good people person and you've got to be able to work with the driver and now they're their coaches effectively if you're the teammate and I had some great teammates and I went to Trans Am

that was me on my own and I won races and won rookie of the year and then I mean everything I started doing actually started the series were folding I went to Trans Am and it folded I went and did something else well challenged and it folded right when i'm like winning races and i couldn't you're the rainmaker that those guys i was the cooler in the casino i'm like what is going on but the i'd always had very high ambitions for what i wanted to be in life and they actually or let's just say it was a maturing ambition about what i wanted to be and racing to be honest behind the wheel wasn't cutting it i i thought just i'd done what i'd achieved what i'd achieved and there was a slight dissatisfaction with that in my mind you know i was like i wanted more

and the tv thing was nibbling at me can you can you do more but i'm like i'm racing you know i speed channel were like do you want to do more and when you are driving and you're getting the opportunity to do something like tv at the same time with especially a speed channel they know that you're like a drug addict you're gonna promise you're gonna be clean and you're gonna turn up for the race but the minute you get i mean to do tv the minute you get offered a drive you're like what tv i don't know i don't even care i don't know who you are yeah yeah i know i still are serious about it but now i'm gonna drive a daytona so i actually had a wonderful teammate called roger schramm rvo oil out of wherever he was midwest and we were racing

Daytona prototypes and he had a massive crash at Daytona and it I mean so he had a massive crash skiing and it just he was a big guy he was never going to drive again that year so he paid me to the end of the year but it meant I went to speed channel and went I'm here I realized it was a tipping point I realized it was a moment to do it and I also had a heart attack at 44 I've never said that on a podcast so i did wow and i felt like this i wasn't heavy um maybe a stressful marriage or two no just one or seven no seven felt like it so i'm actually that just was enough for me and i wasn't worried about my physical abilities but you're on blood thinners and stuff it's not the best to go racing with you know you're gonna hit your head you're not gonna come

out timing was just great and then the sports car tv stuff was getting bigger so that was my jumping point that was transition and i this is the i guess for me the the retrospective part i'm the son of one of the most successful sports car drivers we had very unique personalities dad and i are very similar but i'm a strong personality in my own right so i don't suffer from you know oh my dad's a famous guy it was like i'm just oh yeah so cool i mean i remember being asked at daytona what do you by this i just got out of the viper in the middle of the night and he goes what do you how does it make you feel i've done two and a half hours in the car we were leading he goes what does it make you feel that you're not never going to be as good

as your dad and i went and i said there's 200 odd people drivers in this pit lane that aren't as good was my dad so you know and then I was polite and then I told him to go do whatever he needed to himself yeah exactly never told him again but the point being I don't suffer from that so for me I I've always had a kind of clear head with my own career but it's undeniable what dad's done and my dad was very against nepotism he really was he was not the kind of guy to push me ahead of other people, unfortunately to a fault sometimes. But when it came to me doing TV, I wanted to be Ryan Seacrest. I wanted to be, I wanted to be as good as you could be behind the camera. I wanted, I didn't want to be just an athlete, ex-athlete standing there talking about cars. I wanted to

do shows. I wanted to do whatever it could be. And maybe my unrequited acting dreams when I was a kid so i was very keen to start the tv thing one last thing on the career the racing career before we go into the broadcast because i want to hear more about the broadcast and the personality you're an ambassador with some great brands i see you wearing a nice tag hoyer there i think you're wearing the tag right yeah okay yeah it's just my little everyday one i love it the little formula one is it a little formula one it's actually a much bigger watch than you think when i when i thought it i thought it was like a kid's watch but actually it's a great everyday watch just so they modeled that after the old one like from senna's day right and then and i think that one

was smaller yes it was then than the new ones yeah but before we go that direction i want to hear if you had to describe your the racing portion of your career before the resurgence the renaissance because i would i would consider you a renaissance man now that's the way i look at you would you say it was a series of near misses and it was just held together by stubbornness or what would how would you describe the career the racing portion you know what Vincenzo that is a I've never been asked that so well done you I I don't think I will ever feel that I lived up to my full potential as a driver I was not in my personality if you knew me as a friend you'd know that I'm just a very I'm a kind of gentle person actually you know in a way I don't

like confrontation it's just not me i'm just i was an art student you know to be honest photography is my main passion like a racer yeah as a trust fund kid i'd take portraits of people around the world and interview them it's all i'd do i wouldn't do anything else you know and so i i know now especially when i look at these young guys and i think about my own skill set at the time and they'll be like oh he in formula two he in formula three and he was sixth in the championship and now he's test driver for Aston Martin okay but I was in the championship do you know what I mean I mean I was always right there and I was equally in pace to nearly anyone considering my experience and I just didn't have that killer instinct and when I was racing behind the wheel I was as my killer

instinct was equal to anyone's I didn't have a problem behind the wheel it was my career I didn't have a singular obsession with it and at all odds at all costs and i i actually blame that i mean i've read jensen button's biography and there was a moment in his life where he had to get a trainer and a mental coach to go and i'm like that would have changed my life you know just i know people think we got your dad but i didn't not it's different it's different when it's family though it's so different yeah i would have been the guy and i look at lando i'm not comparing myself to lando but lando so he could be a could be an almost man right he he could so easily without the right guidance have not become lando norris because of his notions because of his he's a kind

gentle guy not when he's driving but that was a bit like me so i'm not comparing myself to them But I know when I watch now what it takes to get a driver to the top, because we have so much information on it, that I would have benefited from that. Whereas Mika, Mika in the paddock, Mika's riding his unicycle around. Mika just could get his helmet on, just go racing and absolute focus. You see that now with drivers. We'll speak specifically to Formula One, but they have nutrition coaches and mental coaching or whatever they're called. They have a coach for everything now, which is fine. I think it's a different time, right? And they have. But that's what it takes in today's modern era to get to that point. Mindset, physical, whatever it might be to get there. It is very interesting to me to hear from someone like yourself who's like, I just didn't have it. I just didn't have it because you still have to show up. You could you could be the talented person, most talented person in the world. I know plenty of people that are very talented at things, but they don't try to go after it. And so you'll never really know. That's what it sounds like. You know, you had it. I went after it, but it was just like that performance coach to dig into my weaknesses and my strengths

and put me in the right frame of mind. I mean, think about the way we used to learn tracks. Young kids can't believe it. You go to Le Mans and you get on a bicycle. Yeah. My first laps in Le Mans were in a bloody 962 on wet tires. That's crazy. crazy i've never driven out pit lane i didn't know how where the right was i didn't know left

was i mean they they've done it they if you go to le mans now you've probably done a thousand laps easy on your sim in different weather different weather conditions different tires like the whole thing you've done the race a thousand times yeah for sure it was it was just so yeah i'm not i'm not saying woe is me i had the most amazing career i mean i drove with some incredible drivers but here's here's another measure it was a question i've actually enjoyed asking you know in some of my other shows famous drivers you know my heroes and i'd say to them you know when you're in the driver's briefing you know when you're there before the weekend who is the guy who is your guy that you'd go oh shit he's he's on form and everybody you know for jackie stewart it was jim

clark when he was on it was funny when i asked mario mario's like i don't know i was mario andretti i mean i don't think anyone he said the same thing to us on our show we asked him who is his what about his most talented driver and he's like ah you know i don't want to say this one because then i'm going to slight that one but it's kind of mean he's a total diplomat he was like absolutely not i will not take this bait i'm not gonna you know but you know that his real answer was me i was yep i was together so i don't know why you're asking me this question but i never had that I sometimes I'd look and I go today I'm going to be great today I just know and it would all come together when I go home and I go what I won what did I do different and I'd

be in a frequency of driving and I'd be in that place that you read about and you're just my bravery and my mind and my awareness and the competition and it would just come together and I could be the the guy but I couldn't for me it wasn't a switch I knew how to dig into I didn't know where the switch was on the dashboard and to turn me into that guy. And that's when you need someone to help you to find that. So no regrets, but just, just an awareness of, of where I didn't do what I could. Sure. Sure. So something that I really enjoy about your broadcasting career is that you have such a respect for the heritage of the sport, the history of the sport, which matters so deeply across all series. And it's something that I'm worried we're losing a

little bit and that I, because I talk about this a lot, the importance of the heritage, the history. So I love your commentary because you have this, that aspect of the knowledge, but you're also a racer. So, you know, what's going on, you know, what's happening. So you transition into broadcasting. And I'm curious when you were in those early races, when you're calling it, when you're calling a race, there's, there's what's happening on track, but now you have to like sell it to the people. You have to get people excited. How was it those first few times you've Now you have this responsibility to tell this story. It's not the same as driving a car where you're only focused on your lap times.

I was lucky because I went straight into doing it for the sports car races that I knew. And for me going to Le Mans, I mean, I was a year old when I first went to Le Mans. So I know it incredibly well. I know the history of it. I know the place very well. And I found myself in an interesting spot. I realized when I walked into the TV booth properly for the first time, I could see my colleagues going, my peers going, what are you doing here? Because I was a funny guy. I was

confident. And you know, they're always a bit nervous about the new guy coming in. And I'm like, I actually don't even, I want to be a TV show host. So let's just do this. Don't worry, I'm not after your jobs. You want to be in the booth? I'm like, I don't know. I want to be in the pit lane. Yeah, but the booth's a bigger job. I say, yeah, but in the pit lane, I get to talk to everybody and i can feel it and see it so i knew my niche um and actually it was just so fun to have control of the microphone over races and be able to i mean there's a lot of people that watch racing and i'm sure you guys can appreciate it and a lot of fans that watch what we do and or any sport i wish they had a microphone during a sporting game i got one so i was able my biggest

trouble was it's very it was funny being root being having to be nice about people that i thought were total tools you know and i'm going no he's a nice guy i mean you know good driver good driver total arsehole you know but really nice you know i had to try and control that um and then being nice about gentlemen drivers was probably the hardest thing because it was like sports cars has run on gentlemen drivers since the time my career was funded for the last part by gentlemen drives it's what we do it's how it is but it's an interesting dynamic of you know servicing the tv that you that you actually have to if if a pro driver locks up it's like oh my god that's what's he doing whereas you're six seconds off the pace and i'm supposed to tell you that

you're doing a good job i mean it's like it's like if my son was six seconds off the pace in a karting thing at the time i'd have been like that's not good so i found it kind of a funny balance you know and and then when i was in the pit lane having to go out someone's go so how did your how how looking down at the race suit to see if it was the right driver because you know all our names are on the waistband and i remember saying to one kid one time i had to go and find it go and find what x y and z told me something and i get there and he's in his paddock and there's this little punk all puffed up with his own importance with a plain race suit with his name down here and he's like yeah that's me you should have looked at my waistband i said mate listen

you've just got it sterling moss had his name up here you ain't sterling moss so if i've got to stare at your crutch to find out your name we're not gonna have it you're not gonna have a long time in this sport you know i mean so i find myself right trying to give people advice at the same time like yeah you know memorable be memorable so anyway i'm digressing but i really enjoyed it and it was actually tommy kendall who when we started working together he verbalized something that i naturally did and that is when you do live broadcasting you should almost be about to get fired every time because that's what makes it lively and that's what makes have that's why you say that you're clever with what you say you're supposed to entertain and i guess

he and i were so good at that we no longer work on tv because you know they've got so boring and the commentators are amazing townsend bell is lee diffy the great the networks have we've regressed you know we've regressed to like it's just where's the you know they're so paranoid of sponsors and commercial interest that really i think that's where people like us doing what we do and commentating and getting giving the other perspective on things we're liberated we don't have we can say what we want within reason but i loved it i did enjoy the tv and i had so many funny stories i mean well you so you took let's pounce off of that for a second you had torque media right and was that that was backed by michelin yeah so so well so to back back up just

a bit so during i guess the 2000 my last professional race was petite lamont in 2013 we finished that in a Ferrari but I I'll tell you that I mean I just want to go back to what you said Lali about that moment there was a moment when um Roger hurt his leg I then went to Sebring the next race and I'd already committed to speed channel and walking down the paddock for the first time in my career in my life without if you don't have a drive well if you have a good drive You walk into the paddock, let's say at Daytona at the beginning of the year with this very self-satisfied, smug grin on your face because you know you've got to drive for the year. And you're like, hey, everyone look at my new race suit.

Isn't this cool? And then if you don't, you're walking along going and some top drivers every year, you're walking along going, hey, hey, Vincenzo, I know you've got a seat open at Daytona, you know, and people, as you're walking along, you start to visualize. imagine team owners like they see you coming and they're leaping behind the tires you know they're diving into the garage so they don't have to see you and they're like oh I was holding your hand hey um nice to see you Justin uh you know they're just worried you're on the ask I walked down there with my tv contract and I remember I remember Wayne Taylor hey Justin and and we're good friends

you know good friends now but he was like uh so what are you driving and I went I'm doing tv full time i've basically retired my god well we've got this new cappuccino machine just come in the trailer anytime you want and we have foods on there and you can come in the motorhome i'm going this is the life where you know drivers we drivers you know i went from being a commodity that i'm that they didn't need to being one they didn't eat and i'm like this is how you do it so anyway that was all the way to 2000 you know that's that's all the way through you know to to sort of when 2019 i i really enjoyed working with him sir i really did i enjoyed my role as the sort of funny guy the the risky guy with what i said i mean when it went to they went to

what's called remy remote broadcasts when you know they sit in charlotte yeah sit in they just sit in one studio and so we used to all go to le mans bob mark varsha david hobbs lee calvin jamie me brian chris we'd have the greatest time it was like a party for a week then they realized well if we put it in the studio they we don't have to put them up in the french food they can just have the mcdonald's across the street and sit there in the studio and we'll put a couple of guys in the pit lane that's where my fill up that's where my theory on how to be in tv will work to my favor because i'm the guy they put on the ground yep So, you know, I'm opening the whole Fox show

on the front of the grid to the American audience and it's just me. And it was, I was like, this is really stimulating. And I would go and do my famous pieces in the middle of the night where I'd go and talk to the fans and, you know, very tough moments sometimes like when Alan Simonson had got killed at Le Mans

and I'm going up there talking to, you know, Danish fans and they're in tears and I'm in tears. Meanwhile, I've got a guy mooning me on top of a lamppost over there it's just lamont and as the producer said the most terrifying five minutes he ever has but also the best and that's what i mean they're almost getting fired it was just so good and then i realized i was doing work with him with michelin they were becoming single tire provider they were heading imsa's broadcast was going to nbc and i could just tell vincenzo i didn't have a seat at the table i you know they're trying to say i did and i'm going i just

you know it was all a bit half-hearted tk was having the same thing so we started that i i created the talk show and then with jason jacobson we did it and it was amazing and then covered it but it was great and we still do it i have to make an observation here we talked about racing and we talked about maybe we didn't talk about racing enough but we talked about racing and you were not even nearly as excited as you were then when you were just talking about being on the pit lane talking yes like there was a distinct change in the excitement and your body language talking about it so i think you found the right spot to be in which is talking about this stuff you're very observant to tell that i and it gets back to that i i mean i won them all won a world

championship i mean it's good but i will never stand in front of my peers and say i'm the best when it comes to tv i believe you could i mean it hasn't happened that way but i think you could put me up against anybody in tv terms and i can do it i'm gonna put you up against someone in another category like for me personally best dressed yeah jb your fits are fire your goals like if next time i have a boyfriend i'm gonna show him your instagram i'm gonna say you need to do this or you're out out the window because man i and so so this is a total pivot but was that was fashion always something you enjoyed so much it's very clear that you're these outfits are very well thought out and crafted it's very it's funny that's so funny you should say that it's it's

my ex-wife apparently told my daughter that i was a horrible dresser um but that's fine and i do have actually photographic proof of that and that it was pretty pretty shocking but here's what i noticed I found my way, and this is so important, into this historic car world, into this classic car world. And I think it was one of those moments that I looked around and I went, my role here is to span the gap between this older generation and the younger generation. And I've always enjoyed wearing suits and just nice jackets. It just kind of, my dad dressed, I don't know, we were sponsored by hugo boss back in the day and so early on i was exposed to those nice clothes and then i go to like host pebble beach and i'm going well i mean i i suit supply awful name

amazing clothes so i go in there and get like this three-piece suit checked and i put a pink shirt on a pink tie and i went and wore it and and i was a bit self-conscious i remember thinking anyone's gonna sort of say i'm a bit of a dandy or whatever and they're like oh my god you look so good i wore a pink shirt just for you today well you are i love it literally he's not it's no like literally i changed two minutes before you showed up and lolly's like yeah throw the pink shirt on it was like perfect shirt on we're like in a panic 30 seconds before you came on because he had to live up i appreciate that but i and i think it's become a it's become a bit of a trademark and I also think you know we live in a in an era with especially with social media

and I can say it with the Formula One drivers I mean you got you know obviously Lewis's unique style and Lando you know he's 44 he can do what he wants in his but I've never been the guy who could wear a hat on backwards with you know and look cool in a t-shirt on no I just don't physically had that look and i realized that uh you know you lean into what you might look good in i that's why i think george russell is nailing it and carlos sites yeah for george to head into the sophisticated look maybe some of the young kids are like why is he wearing a double-breasted blazer with a you know and looking so good but he's right but his longevity is going to be way more and you know the one thing that i think i haven't emphasized is i'm pretty smart marketing

commercially wise it could should have been in marketing or advertising i can see what puts things together and my market is yes there's all that looking much cooler but the money lies in all the people that can afford to buy brands from 35 onwards so that's where i want to live in that area you know we we actually yeah business of speed is not just a podcast the podcast was built on to what we're trying to build which is working with the brands and helping them understand content helping uh you know all there's so many new sponsors especially in america now into into motorsport as a whole formula one gets a lot of it but in motorsports and so we found the opportunity to help them understand the audience because it's something that we've been part of

But working with the brands that have the audiences that are a little bit of a higher, I guess, echelon, higher net earners, it's night and day different than working with the brands that are all fighting for just mass eyeballs. Like, we love that we're in such a niche because it's easier to talk to that group of people. Like, I would love to talk to the Justin Bells of the world all day long, right? Because I know that you are going to buy, you're going to be engaged, you're going to tell your friends and colleagues about it. Whereas the people that are all fighting for free things, they don't, they don't tell anybody. They may buy it once in a lifetime. The lifetime value is almost zero. So I like that you brought all that up and that it is fascinating. We could talk a lot about what you're doing. You said you should have been in marketing, which leads me to a question about your show, Drive to Win. You pitched that show to win executives, right? Like they didn't come to you for that. No.

After a lifetime of racing where you, you know, you see an opportunity and you just have to like make it happen. Whether it's from a sponsor or from a team and, you know, you hear that, oh, there's a drive going and then you find your navigation there. I went to, you know, working closely with Pebble Beach and Talk Media Group, which is Jason, Tommy and I, we produce all the Pebble Beach events and the Hagerty events. And the Wynn were really embarking, you know, pushing to to grow their their concourse. And so I Jason and I went in and met them and they didn't really need what we needed at the time. But they said, have you seen our new six million dollar podcast studio? I was like, no. So I head down there and they give me a tour. And I said, well, this is the year, the first year of the Grand Prix.

So three years ago, I went, do you have a Formula One show? And they went, no. I said, but you've got the Grand Prix coming. Three weeks later, we had a fully funded show. So all that goes through. Now it's grown much bigger. Now I'm part of a lot of the things they do. And they're an extraordinary partner.

And what they've done with the Concours is just beautiful. It'll be one of the top Concours in the world because of the way the wind do things. Justin, for people who aren't super familiar with Concours, because not everybody is, can you talk to that a little bit? Why it's so much more than sort of this high-end nostalgia? Can you speak to that a little bit? Yeah, I think, you know, definitely the established Concours, such as Pebble Beach, they've been around 75 years.

This is, you know, it's this year, 75 years. they really are a record of the growth of the automobile in in you know civilization however what was old what was once new is now old you know so you know even in the 30s and 40s when it started you drove the car you know in the 40s and 50s you were the cars that were just being built really only 20 years before but you know now they're 100 years old um for me it is a curation of the of the history as well as you know keeping these owners they are the curators of these cars they keep this technology alive there's so many as a storyteller there's so many incredible stories wrapped up in every single car i mean a car i was with the other day at this scottsdale

concours really nice little concours but it was it was a bugatti that had been being was being driven around europe by a british you know a lord young wealthy lord then world war ii is breaking out so he has to leave it and leave it in austria and then the car makes its way he gets abandoned it gets hidden in a cellar you know behind a brick wall and then it gets found by a gi and then imported over wow i mean think about the people that have held that steering wheel the love the passion the heartache the businesses that have failed that will i don't know for me they they're it's like they're the code to our to our history and i enjoy it enjoy that side of it particularly like the fact that uh the 50s and 60s sports cars for me that's that's the sweet spot

that i enjoy and of course and this is what all the main concours are doing is also embracing the modern cars and helping and haggarty have an amazing theory on philosophy on this bringing young drivers in and you know we all love cars we love racing but if we don't connect to the future generations they will be driving around in prius is wondering what happened yeah i'm not knocking electric i'm just kind of getting it's not uh it's nothing so but if that is their thing then we've got to embrace it and make it as cool as it is it's like seeing what's happening on the fields of pebble beach and the wind and and other concours now last year at pebble we had the bpr series represented that's you know what i raced in in 94 95 in europe which was responsible for

basically emergence of gt2 and gt1 racing and with stefan mattel he'd be good interview for you and he you know he created he created the series not a shy man so a good story see sexy man lolly you're gonna think by the way um but he he um and i interviewed him there last year and i realized wow all these great stories of men and women who especially from the organization side you know bought formula one to what it is today or sports cars so to see cars of mine from 30 years ago they're now classics it makes you feel old but i do i just love the fact that this ecosystem that keeps this culture of cars and the craftsmanship and the engineering know-how and the sense of design to see jay ward from pixar who created cars franchise you know he's such a car guy

but as he walks along just talking to him seeing what he sees in cars and sometimes i'll ask him what what do you see what personality would that car be and he's like ah good you know because he looks at them with animation in mind or if you see you know flavio manzoni from ferrari when i do the class of ferrari event who can he has more taste in his toenail than most most of us and he's just talking about the cars and the thing i'm going this you know wow i want to listen to them all day yeah so you're right so so i i'm in the same way my racing i have my own sort of channel to do it my own way for me historic cars is not really about the cars it's about the stories and that's that's how i view it so the concours world if you get the chance to go to your local concours

go along you don't necessarily have to love cars take your girlfriend your boyfriend and you'll go just have an open mind and you'll see a car that connects to you and you'll want to know why and it can really trigger a whole different appreciation i'm gonna i i'm definitely gonna be down at greenwich so if you're if you're going to be there would love to love to connect for sure in real life yeah wow you know it watches and cars they provenance is something that's so important and i think lolly started the episode talking about the need for history and why it's so important you know it's not we live in a world now where everything is we need electric cars even though i think that's a whatever we can go on i have a whole thing about that that's a separate

episode but it's really it's because these people don't know or care about the history and understand the the power that these can can these i don't even want to call them auto just cars because they're not just cars there there's so much more to it they take on a personality which is what i think the movie cars did right it gave you that ability to see a personality in a car and yeah that's i really love that you said that that that's really cool i i think that yeah you sold that to anybody that's listening you know you go go to a concourse event that is anyway a couple more things before we wrap up if you're good with this did you ever get your f1 credential yet your media credential i just was doing that yesterday i'm hoping so i mean they are basically working

with tag horror gives me some access yeah obviously but you know the paddock is very full and i i obviously in vegas i'm more sorted but i i think i'm into miami and and austin so let me ask you something in the old days with bernie eccleston you'd send a fax exactly and you get a story to tell you off camera about faxes i'll tell you off camera So let me ask you about that. What does it say about how F1 is currently managing its media ecosystem if someone like yourself cannot get a media credential? I think it is so oversubscribed with demand from the celebrity contingent and that contributes to the sex appeal, if you like, of Formula One for the casual viewer. Oh, my God, there's Michael Strahan. Oh, there's so-and-so.

There's The Rock. I mean, it's very sexy. It means that it's harder for the media who actually create media from it. Because you're hoping, obviously, that when you see Dwayne Johnson there, that he's going to do a tweet. That's all they want, right? I'm here. But they don't even care if he does. They just take a photo.

Just one there, yeah. I'm sure it's great for the drivers and the teams having all these celebrities in the garage. I can tell you as a driver at the time, they're like, please, just get out. I mean, it's great to meet you, but I need to focus on racing. Now, I am in awe of their bandwidth, these drivers, to handle their media obligations. I mean, they're about to get in the car and there's people standing behind them. Think of like Juan Pablo Montoya, Kimi Räikkönen, and they wouldn't have dealt with that. They would have been like, piss off.

No, thank you, for sure. Not a chance. Not a chance. uh so and that's you know i've interviewed max a couple of times with tag hoi i did a great one in austin last year and and he's i'm lucky i i do have a very fast skill to bond to someone when i'm interviewing it was something i saw i found it natural but i jay leno showed me how i watched him do it when i was on his show working with him and he would go backstage and he just connects you just find that one strand that connects you but me being an ex-driver gives

me a credibility and they know i'm not gonna go so what's it like to go fast that's my question yeah but i mean it goes around and i'm getting off track here but i mean i i think i think formula one needs this is the celebrity side of things is amazing so but i've got a bit you know to be honest it's like in vegas and in austin i had access on the thursday and friday by the time i get to saturday and sunday i don't need to be in the paddock it's nice but everyone's working and there that's part of my sensibilities to it is that i know the closer you get to the race the least you need to talk to me so let me go earlier in the week that's when i'll have my credentials you know yeah you have been very helpful for formula one

now they are the relationship with the win and everything it's opening up so yeah you you told just because you brought the celebrity thing and i want to kind of tie this up you mentioned something or you had told a story somewhere and maybe i'll correct me if i'm wrong on how it came out but michelin hired a celebrity some creator with like 10 million followers and couldn't move any you know couldn't sell anything but then a friend of yours had maybe 50 000 yeah yeah true story uh captain sparkles who is a big minecraft guy okay yes followers he at the time the height of minecraft when we did the pilot sport the cut 4s tire thermal like three week event i was hosting and he came along and and he loves he had a ford gt i mean he's really into cars nice quiet kid

like you'd expect um for someone that gets watched streaming basically by kids yeah by kids i mean 10 million followers and my daughter was 13 at the time so or 11 so i can promise you she's not buying any tires and he did a video from being there and it got a couple hundred thousand views which for me would be good but for him it's like nothing right and they were like oh we didn't quite get what we want out of that sean lee who has a purist group he's very involved here with the jdm crowd and everything an amazing friend here in la he's got like 30 000 followers he sold more tires to his people because his people go when he says these are the hottest new thing to put on your car they all went i'm buying them and i think that's when brands started to go

or brands your companies went niche which we're all three of us the niche is the sweet spot and you know i need to build my social media i'm finally getting around to doing it because everything i do is for other people so i've never really i mean lying if i say i haven't pushed it but i've tried to and then you know it doesn't you guys might have experienced it just doesn't gain traction and you're like what am i doing and and it's soul destroying and if i never had to do a social media post in my life i promise you i would be happy i am with you 100 i just want to talk about race cars and i want to talk to race car drivers and i want to talk about aerodynamics and the things that I'm passionate about,

I didn't realize that I had to build a following and do like, at some point I didn't connect the dots until late, until it was too late. Yeah. Well, you have an advantage, you know, I was about to say, you've got to be pretty or extreme. No, at least you can get into that. As a guy, I'm like, I've got to like be naked

riding down a skateboard. No, that won't work either. Don't worry. I tried. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I've tried to. I mean, but it's funny.

I just quit. back to these we haven't talked about young drivers but i just want to you know i think young drivers so exposed for them they're so refined they're so they're so in this funnel right and their parent or friends are spending hundreds of thousands millions of dollars to get into a place where there aren't many drops let's face it not a it's not football or basketball with 28, 38 people on each team, two drivers, one driver on a team. And I often think with these young guys, I remember giving someone advice. I said, your biggest problem is your, I mean this nicely, you're forgettable. And I said, you're not fast enough to be forgettable. I said, I don't

know, go, go home over the winter, get some crazy tattoos, a mohawk, start shagging an OnlyFans girl i don't care you need to do something so everyone goes whoa who's that guy um i think they're in a really and they're all so good thanks to in racing they're so cultivated i'm really glad i'm not in that era they're media trained they're like little robots to be quite frank even straight out of the car after a shunt they're so polished and put together because they know they can't screw up and say the wrong thing oh well i have to wait to see the footage and speak to the team i'm not quite sure what happened they know what happened they got shunted but they're so polished and put together it's insane for their age yeah so we could we're gonna have to do a part two for

sure because there's so many stories that are that we can't get to hopefully we can do part two part three maybe maybe something live maybe in miami yeah we always end interviews and especially with professional drivers because we we each have a signature question that we adore i need you to put aside i'll start with mine i need you to put aside hardware championships whether this person got an opportunity or not in your entire racing career who is the most naturally gifted driver you've raced against mika hakuna there you go and i'll just when we were at silverstone i was on the front row he was starting like sixth or something and rarely rare bad qualifying we're in the pouring rain panning start his i'm in the camel colored car and he and alan are running in the marlborough

colored cars isn't that crazy 18 19 year olds tobacco sponsor good old boys off the start i'm like tucked in behind alan and mick it comes around the outside just like just the cars on dancing on the edge of disaster goes around us both and sods off into the distance and i remember going hmm that's not happening anytime soon for me he's got that one down and i remember thinking just truly truly beautifully natural driver yeah there you go lovely answer that's amazing he's one of my greats so love that he's great mike maybe mine is not as simple as that what is your absolute favorite track that you have driven on in the world generally you'll find we like the ones we win on but i do think there's something about le mans that brings elements of every track

together is it it's not as intense as just being at laguna seca and i mean which is an amazing track silverstone but it is the fact that you it's such an old race driving down a public road well over 200 miles an hour you know between the trees and le mans for me is a sensory overload just from the grandstands and you know you head you head off under the dunlop bridge and head into the countryside i don't there's something magical about it and it's so fast and actually there's moments in the middle of the night especially if you get the early dawn breaks stint and the lights coming up and it's just you're going faster than you've ever been at the track the air is clear and you're using less effort to go as fast as fast you've never

been because you're so harmonious with the car and i just think it's a beautiful driving track i'm glad you called it i'm also glad you called it the dunlop bridge and you didn't subscribe to this good year thing i'm sorry i can't i can't get my head around it no yeah just i mean you should they shouldn't even have tried it they should have just moved it down and done And Goodyear should have paid to keep it, the Dunlop Bridge. That would have made more marketing. You've got so much good press, actually. You're right.

Replace the bridge with the Goodyear grandstand. You know what I mean? Something. Or just put the blimp, the Goodyear blimp. Let it float around. I don't know. Anything else. Justin, what an absolute pleasure to talk to you.

Thank you so much. Well, thank you so much. There's not enough time in a day. But I just want to thank you, really, for being a steward of the sport, really. Like you're, it's in really good hands with people like you who, who care so deeply about it, who want to share the history, the heritage. We're in a good place if people like you get, get more opportunities to speak of it. So thank you so much for joining us.

It's an absolute pleasure. Well, thank you. We'll do it again. We can get into all the brands and all the things. It's cool. Let's do it. Yeah, for sure. All right, guys.

I appreciate it. Thanks. Thank you.