Business of Speed Podcast - What Karun Chandhok Learned About The Business of F1 from Bernie Ecclestone

Episode Date: June 13, 2026

Karun Chandhok reached Formula 1 without ever racing a go-kart, learned the business of the sport from Bernie Ecclestone, and watched the Force India seat that fit him perfectly go to someone else. He joins Lali to cover all of it, plus where he stands on the 2026 engine formula, whether Kimi Antonelli can win the championship, and why he traded Monaco for the Indy 500.

Hola, Vincenzo. Lali, how are you today? I'm always so excited when I get to chat with you. You always, before this, before I hit record, she said, can I do the hola la of Vincenzo? Because it's my favorite thing in the whole world. And yeah, it's, it genuinely is her favorite thing in the world. So if you're listening to this or watching this

and you're thinking, man, she starts every episode with the hola Vincenzo. She loves it so much. She just. I do. But let me tell you, it's twofold. One, because obviously, as people can imagine from seeing us, I have somewhat of an affinity for Vincenzo. Like, we adore each other, so of course.

But also, when I get to say hi, Vincenzo, or hola, Vincenzo, it means that we're about to talk about something that we both love so much. So it gets me really excited. And there you go. This next episode that you'll be listening to was another episode that Lali got the opportunity to do solo with a former F1 driver, a current commentator. You've seen this person all over Formula One, TVs, Formula One socials, pretty much everywhere. Yeah, it's a great conversation. I got to obviously listen to it because I had to edit it. But Lali, let's talk a little bit about your conversation with Karun Chandhok. so I really liked speaking with Karun not only because I have a soft spot for him in general because of the the arc of his career but also because as you know and I told him I really like all-around racers so this guy was in Formula One he's done endurance racing he did Formula E he's

raced at Le Mans so he is he's an all-arounder kind of racer and I really like that and as you know we don't see those anymore very often right these guys get on a ladder and they kind of have to stick to that ladder if they want to be elite at what they do. So it's less and less we see people who are really good and versatile in a lot of forms of racing. So Karun is one of those guys. It was absolutely lovely chatting with him. What did you take away from your conversation? What should the listeners be looking for? So this is a guy with a wealth and depth of knowledge in general. And I think if you listen to him when he's talking F1 or he's calling a racer. He does a lot of the Formula E races. He keeps us cool, calm and collected, right? I really

enjoy that sort of calm that he brings. I really liked learning a bit about his career and his trajectory in his career. But also, he's very spot on on what he thinks needs to happen with this new current sort of, as I call it, the new formula, the new regulations and the combustion electric split. He was very spot on. In fact, shortly after I was able to speak to him, F1 quickly changed already the rules for next year. So I think that this is someone who is very insightful, who's very much in the know, and who's a big advocate also for drivers having a voice, Vincenzo, in the FIA, which I feel like they don't have as much of a voice as some people might think they do. So yeah, so that was impactful. Also, he doesn't like people who complain

and don't offer solutions. That's something I took away, which I think nobody does, right? nobody likes a whiner. Yeah, no, I mean, we hear that so much, right? Like there's a lot of that now. Everyone just complains, but you don't have, there's no, there's, there's nobody that can also many of the complainers either online, right? The online voice has gotten louder as a collective, but also other commentators and pundits. And I mean, even drivers up to a certain point aren't able to, to make changes. You would like to think that they can pressure the decision makers but yeah i mean without having a solution to the problems yeah you just you just add to the noise and there's so much of that already and i love i do like how karun comports himself

not only in our episode but out there in the world we we i see him a lot in the in social like responding to people and whatnot too which is pretty cool because you know sometimes you get to a point where you're like i don't have time for this but he he does take time to do that and that's pretty cool he's very humble and i also learned i don't remember this maybe this was off camera, but his wife is from Toronto. So and I live in Toronto. So I kind of had I was like, okay, well, that's cool. So yeah, it's an all he's an all around great guy. I'm really excited for people to listen to this interview. Enjoy listening to Lali in conversation with Karun Chandak. Karun Chandak, welcome to the Business of Speed podcast. How are you?

I'm great. I'm great. Nice to be here. I'm really chuffed to see you. I was excited all morning because something about you that I find very interesting is that you, like a previous guest of ours, Tom Blomkist, you're the son of a rally champ, but you went into open wheel racing. So I always like to start with people's origin stories. Tell us a little bit about growing up, your cart. Why didn't you go into rally? Tell us about that. Yeah. I mean, I grew up in a motorsport family. My dad used to race. My grandfather used to race. My grandmother did some racing in the 70s on your mother's side or father's side oh my dad's side yeah uh my my mother's side of the family are all in academia my maternal grandfather was a chemistry professor

and my maternal grandmother was a physics teacher so they were very much in the academia world my father's side of the family are all the the uh slightly wild ones i think so yeah i grew up around motor racing i grew up around race cars race tracks rally cars you know my dad did a lot of racing but probably more rallying and so that was the environment i grew up in really uh back in india i grew up at a time where we didn't have any go-kart tracks no go-kart uh championships or races so i'm probably the last driver to have raced an f1 who never did a go-kart race wait is this breaking news do people know this you've never done a go-kart race in your in maybe now you have as a grown-up but never yeah i mean i've done some like sort of

fun charity events and things like that but yeah i've not actually done a professional car race in my life wow i did not know this about you that's crazy so what was your so how did you start so in india we had a little single seater championship called formula maruti which was based on a you know a little suzuki cc engine with a four-speed gearbox so i started racing that for one year when i was 16 and then moved across and race in asia in formula asia for a and then came to Europe to race in Formula 3. So I started very late, you know. If you look at people of my generation, my peers,

and everyone ever since then, you know, they start at six today. That's where the kids are starting karting. So, yeah, really in hindsight, I started a bit too late, but that's the circumstances I grew up in. Listen, you made it to the top. So I'm just going to, before we continue, nowadays, what do you think really is the cutoff point for someone to get into karting age-wise?

Really, if they want to make it, let's say, to IndyCar or Formula One, et cetera. I think probably nine or 10, I think, is where, you know, they can come in and do a couple of years of cadet karting and then do junior, senior karting after that. So I think by 10 nowadays, the kids kind of have to choose the path if they want to get to the top, you know.

I think you can start later and still probably go into a career of sports car racing or I think maybe rallying as well. You could probably start a bit later. But certainly, I think if you're chasing the pathway of Formula One, then, you know, 9, 10 is where kids need to get started. I was chatting the other day with when we were in the Grand Prix in Miami about rallying, and I have a question that nobody could quite answer.

So maybe you can because of your father. The navigator in rallying, is that a person who wanted to be the driver and just wasn't good enough? Or are they just some cartographer? Why are they the navigator and not the driver? It's a really good question. And I don't know the answer, to be honest. You know, I think if I think of the co-drivers my dad had,

I don't think any of them wanted to be drivers. I think they all had a passion and an interest for rallying and wanted to be involved. Maybe it didn't feel like they were able to do the driving part, But certainly, you know, the co-driver is kind of undervalued. You know, people talk about the superstars of driving, whether it's today, Sebastian Jorge or Robin Perra, or you go back to people like Colin McRae, you know, very few people talk about their co-drivers or can even name them.

So yeah, it is a bit of an undervalued piece of the puzzle. Well, 100% are the unsung heroes, because even we saw it this year at the Dakar, how an error in navigation really takes you out of the race. So just like we think Formula One is a team sport or people like you and I really know it is a team sport because, you know, you have a slow pit stop or something happens, you're not going to win the race. Same thing with your, if your navigator messes up the navigation, you're not going to win the rally and you could be out of it, right? So they are the unsung heroes, but nobody knows their name. Nobody knows anything about them. So let's go back to Europe.

You're in Europe, you're doing F3. I know at some point you got a call from Red Bull to come test for them. at that time was that already a big deal to get that call from from Red Bull yeah so I you know I went through Formula 3 did some World Series by Renault ran out of money ended up going back to Asia for a year and then sort of with some Red Bull support came back to race in GP2 which obviously is now Formula 2 and that was important thing because suddenly you're racing on the same weekends as F1 you're racing you know on the support bill you're just one step away so and I had a pretty decent season in 2007 I was with a team called Durango who you know they'd finished

last the season before they were not a top team but it was my only chance to get on the grid and I ended up scoring points in every weekend in the second half of the year I won a race at Spa so you know for Red Bull they thought okay you know for a guy who's driving with a team that's clearly not at the top he's doing pretty well so I got a call from Christian Horner at the time who was obviously in charge and gave me my first opportunity to do some testing which was amazing you know you know it's a that itself was the first culmination of a dream right there's so few people on the planet who can say they've driven a formula one car there's so many kids who have driven a go-kart and dream of driving an f1 car one day forget racing in one so

absolutely getting that first test was uh was a massive massive boost that must have been incredible so then then this wonderful team called force india takes place right and i know you were in the running for the seat but liuzzi got it novin antonio liuzzi got it but am i wrong was bernie ecclestone always kind of in your corner was he a bit advocate of yours yeah i mean we um my father and i were very lucky we met bernie in 2002 he you know at the time he he was all powerful of course in the sport and it was a really important person to have on your side You know, he helped do a lot of my contracts for me and he helped, you know, just try and help get some deals

and champion my cause, you know, because at the time we were trying to get the Indian Grand Prix, which eventually, of course, came to India. I didn't get a chance to race in it, but, you know, that's where we started working. But Bernie had the foresight that really to get the Grand Prix in India, we need to start telling some more Indian stories and we want to get some Indian drivers on the grid and things like that.

And, yeah, it was a really interesting time. You know, I was in my early 20s. I was traveling around the country with Bernie, meeting different politicians and businessmen and landowners and all these people who wanted to have a race. And that's like a PhD. That's like a PhD traveling around with Bernie. Yeah, it was really interesting, you know, just spending time with him

and, you know, just having the chance to sit down and have dinners and talk to him about how he built this amazing sport. And, you know, he, if you look back, of course, What Liberty have done since they took over is incredible. And the way they've embraced the digital media and new media like Netflix and things like that has been amazing. And it's something that Bernie didn't do. But I think equally, Bernie deserves credit for what he did in the 80s and 90s because he's the one who led this explosion of the sport that then allowed people like Liberty to even arrive at where they were and take it to the next level. It's true because you can't compare, right?

Because he did the best he could with the tools he had at that time. He didn't have social. I always say it's sort of a parallel to when people talk about like the goat, right? The goat conversation to me is so unfair because you can't, it's not an equal machinery, right? It's not under equal circumstances, equal competition. So it's very hard to really say who the goat could be because we don't know, depending on if we put them in the same car. Same with Bernie.

He, of course, deserves so much credit and people think Liberty deserves all the credit, But he made the sports get to the point where Liberty wanted it. Yeah, exactly that. So anyway, coming back to the original point, yeah, I was lucky to spend time with him, learn from him about the way the sport and the business functioned. And working on that whole Indian Grand Prix project with him and his team, which was a very small team at the time. You know, I think at the time, Formula One management was probably, I don't know, a quarter of the number of employees that they have today. And every decision was basically you'd call Bernie direct and he would just make a decision there. You know, I remember standing on the track and we were talking about needing more hospitality.

At that time, you know, we didn't have the ability, you know, you didn't go through all of these channels and layers of an organization. You just, you picked the phone up and called him and went, what do you think we could do? And he just said, well, you should do this or do that. you just made a decision so it was it was a very um entrepreneurial way of running the sport and a really interesting time for me as a kid in my 20s i miss those days karun where you could just pick up and someone makes a decision and not everything goes to a committee yeah there's listen there's pluses and minuses right because i think you know there's some parts where certainly you look at the way there's a marketing and promotion department of the sport today and you wonder how the sport

function without it. You know, Bernie didn't have that. So I think, you know, it's just different times, different ways of working. You know, he very much was running it like an entrepreneur. Today, it's a publicly listed company and it's a very different organization. Neither one is right or wrong. I think both were right for the time that they've operated in. So we're going to get back to you. So you get the Force India ride. That must be incredible. It's Like if Colombia had a team and I get to drive the Colombian car, like that must be an absolute dream come true, right? So it's a combination.

Yeah, but I didn't. That's the problem. I didn't get the Force India deal. You know, we were speaking, we spoke with them very briefly, but they opted to go a different route. You had the practice. I know that it made the opportunity to pitch yourself. Why wouldn't they go with you, Karun?

Did it make too much sense? I don't know. I mean, I think everyone's got theories around it. The truth probably lies somewhere in between. I don't spend too much time wasting energy on it. What is, I guess, a little bit frustrating is it would have been nice to have at least had a test. We had a bunch of, I ended up doing quite a lot of simulator stuff, various evaluation. But it never led to even a test, which, you know, was a bit frustrating, I guess.

but that's life you know you it's just the way it goes uh i ended up going down a different path yeah um with with hispania and then with lotus so yeah i think in theory it would have been great would have been great to have an indian driver indian team indian grand prix so many of the pieces of the puzzle were lined up there it just seemed like it was right there the deal was there and they just fumbled to be honest in your not in your defense but i do think they fumbled that quite a bit because like I said for a country who it's not you know how other countries and maybe you can relate to this in in you there aren't that many like in Colombia we've had one right you've had you guys have had two so it's not that there's dozens and dozens of Indian Formula

One it seemed like it was a fumble on their part but you made it to F1 you had your thing I always say racing is such a fickle mistress because obviously you have to get there at the right time with the right team and the right engine in the right situation so perhaps i'm i'm i'm certain it's not the result you wanted in formula one for sure but then you did something incredible you want to do endurance racing for a bit yeah exactly i you know fell out of love with f1 a little bit at the end of 2011 the politics involved with lotus were exhausting not fun and really i thought at this point you know is this um is this even something i want to be a part of it really uh was pretty draining i i had the opportunity to go race in sports cars and and at le mans it was amazing

you know and i ended up doing le mans five times i was the first indian to race it in the 24 hours so that was that was pretty amazing and you you know it helped to rediscover my love for the sport It helped me rediscover why I, you know, just enjoy driving race cars again. And they were fun cars to drive. You know, Le Mans, that 24 hours itself is just an incredible race. It's an amazing track. And it helped me rediscover the love of motor racing. There's a real sense of camaraderie, right, in sports car racing that you probably didn't have in Formula One with your teammates and sharing the car.

Yeah. Yeah. No, exactly that. You know, exactly. I think you... When you come up the single-seater ladder, you sort of get forced into a very selfish mindset where you have to just think of yourself and protect yourself and do everything just for you. But then suddenly you go to sports car racing and, you know, you have to work with other people. You have to think of the collective for success.

And it's a very different mindset. But once you get it, there's a real sense of camaraderie in there. Hey, question. Have you ever officially retired? Could we see you in sports car racing again? well never say never listen i'd love to go back to lamar i never got to do daytona as well it would be nice for the 24 hours daytona yeah um so but yeah i mean i don't know if those opportunities are there wait so just for the let's set the record straight you are not officially

retired no of course not nobody ever retires well jensen budden seemed to make a big deal of officially retiring last year yeah but he's still racing he's still racing at goodwood and all sorts So, you know, he'll still pop up here and there. So if anyone's listening, Karun is available for the 24 Hours of Le Mans. Or we were so lucky. We were at the Rolex 24 and IMSA invited us and we got to do a podcast. We got to do a podcast live with John Doonan in his pimped out bus in the middle of the infield. And we're sitting there with the president of IMSA during the race, doing a podcast.

No way. That's cool. Quite incredible. That's cool. It was pretty cool. So I hope I get to see you race in sports car racing. I think you're like I mentioned to you off air, but I love racers that are well-rounded, who can race and everything. That's really shows me you're a racer. You just love competition.

You just love to go fast and extract the maximum out of a car. It seems like that. Yeah. You know, I still I'm lucky I get to race at Goodwood and some historic racing and stuff. And it's just great fun. I love driving all these different types of race cars. You know, I've driven nearly 40 different F1 cars. I've driven sort of over 110 different race cars now in all sorts of different eras of the sport.

And I find them really interesting. I feel like you get an appreciation of, as you say, overall sport, whether it's sports cars, touring cars, Formula One, of course, historic. you know you really understand a lot more about what drivers had to do in different eras as well we're very lucky right we're super lucky we have such a rich history in the sport it's something that's been around for for for over 100 years now and there's a lot to learn from it although you say that because the history matters so much right here i don't know if you can see it i have this team lotus and formula one book yeah i've got one here somewhere yeah i i'm so passionate about the history of the sport and how all these drivers sort of set the path in safety

in so many things for you guys. And I want to tell you, I got a bit of a tear in my eye a few months ago because you got to drive an F1 car in India and the sun was setting. It seemed like this idyllic thing. How did that came to be and how close are we to an Indian Grand Prix? Well, it was from the team at Red Bull in India. They had a show car that they were bringing out there and they said, look, you know, we would love to do this day where we can take the car back to that track in Delhi, because it's the same car that Sebastian Vettel won the 2012 Grand Prix in, the Red Bull RB8. He won the world championship in that car. So they said, look, we'd love to take the race winning car from India back to that track, but also have an Indian driver come and

drive it of course I said yes you know it was a very easy decision and we had a really fun day you know my dad and my brother came up to watch and to hang out and those you know it was lovely because no pressure no stress I genuinely never thought I would get a chance to drive an F1 car in India again you know the last time I did that was free practice in 2011 it had been 15 years since I got to do that and that time there was obviously a lot of pressure because it was the first Indian GP and the first practice session there was a lot going on but this time I could just do it for fun it was just pure pleasure and just getting the chance to just drive and experience driving this car on a track you know as you said really for pleasure you're not asking

about your lap times you really didn't care at all no no of course not no it was just it was purely for a demo it was just to show the car off and make some noise and just have fun you know they just said look off you go go drive this car and just have fun with it we just want you to to enjoy it and they invited you know various media down to watch it and because it was a nice bit of history to bring that car back so it was a purely sort of content capture day for them and for me it was just a day of fun so yeah now i'm very grateful to have that chance because the muscle memory comes back karun the muscle memory comes back immediately oh yeah i mean you know i think you know i've spent a lot of time going around that track you know i when the track was being developed

i worked with the with the promoters and you know i saw that place from when it was an empty piece of dirt just just land to then driving the first official timed lap of free practice i got to do that i saw i've seen that track a lot and i think driving you know i've been lucky still drive cars for williams heritage so i still get to drive f1 cars probably 10 times a year um which which gives me a chance to um you know still still be able to get in these things and drive them quite sensibly okay so obviously i can't have you here and us not talk about the state of the union in formula one we've just gonna say i hope we're talking about f1 and not politics oh yeah no no know I don't we don't touch politics here we've just come back from Miami Kimi Antonelli Grande

Kimi what like first of all what as we like to say generational talent of course is this is he the real deal is he is what let's start with that before we get into controversies could this kid take the championship what are you thinking oh yeah Kimi could take the championship you know he's taken the last three polls and the last three wins and he's done a fantastic job um you know He's clearly made a big step from where he was last year. I think there was no doubt about his speed. There was doubts about his consistency last year. You know, he was quite up and down.

But I guess you expect that from a rookie. This year, he's hit the ground running. Really, really, really impressive what he's done. Soaked up the pressure from Lando. Didn't make any mistakes and did an outstanding job. If you're George Russell, you're worried right now? I don't know if worried is the right word. But I think you certainly would be thinking about your own form.

You know, I think clearly the car is still strong. You know, Kimi qualified on the front row. And maybe Lando, if the strategy had gone the other way, if Lando pitted first and Kimi second, then maybe Lando would have won it. So I don't know. I think basically the McLaren was as good as the Mercedes. I think the strategy was the way that swung the balance. But at the end of the day, George was a long way behind Kimi all weekend.

Yeah. So he's got to just think about his own form, but not so much be thinking about... So I don't think he should be worried about what happens on the other side of the garage. That's sort of irrelevant. Yeah, it's lost energy. He's the winner of the last year's Canadian Grand Prix.

He knows how to win it on that track. He's just got to try and figure out what he needs to do to win again. So in the past two weeks before Miami, there was a really controversial interview that we've all heard about, Stefano Domenicali with a race. And for me, it's controversial because I think that he's divided fans a bit into sort of what has been referred to now as the purists, which has become some four letter curse word. It's something bad to be and sort of the casual fan. And it seems that it's only the purists that are complaining about the new formula, the new engine, and that we're just being stuck up snobs who are stuck in the times and don't want to move forward.

and then the people like myself and and many people that put a lot of comments in my in my social media feeds think that they've been ostracized and left aside and that they're only catering to the casual fan i don't know how much you can or cannot say but do you do you agree that their fanhood has been a little bit divided of late and that perhaps the formula one is in general trying to cater more to one side of it than the other you know what lali i've been uh I've been around this block a little while and one thing I've learned is I just, I don't really read comments and I don't read the noise and I try just not to. That's smart. I form my own opinions. It doesn't matter to me how you want to label people or not label people or whatever.

It doesn't matter. Ultimately for me, it's about, you just got to think about what is good for the sport and what is the right thing for the sport. And also there's no point just you know complaining about things as well you know i think for me it's quite straightforward there's a set of regulations that have been formed for this generation they are what they are you know why we've arrived at them and etc etc we can debate all day long it's irrelevant it actually doesn't matter today i'm not for me i'm not one who just sits there dwelling on the past and i think there's a lot of noise about from people going you know oh these rules are crap why have we got this, we were trying to appease Audi and we're trying to do this and we're trying to do

that. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what, that's just noise. For me, it's about what do we do now? What do we think of it now? And what do we do about it now? In reality, these rules are not going anywhere. This is what we have for the next four years. I don't really, don't really engage in, he said this in this interview and this, I don't care. For me, it's just about how do we optimize what we have now and how do we learn from what we have now for the next set of rules in 2030 and beyond? I think it's pretty clear,

and I said it on our Sky Sports F1 podcast this week, that I think the direction of travel seems to be, you know, there's a bit too much reliance on the electrical power. You know, I don't think the world is ready for this 50-50 split. We've probably been better off in a 70-30, but it is what it is. So now it's, okay, what do we think the world can be ready for in four or five years time? Do we think we need to go back to non-hybrid cars or have cars with just a small hybrid

system with a push to pass, you know, kind of like cars used to be? Maybe that's the direction we go. But I think it needs to be a collaborative effort between the teams. I think the drivers must have a voice in it as well, Formula One and the FIA. And we really need people thinking of the big picture and just coming with a collaborative approach and being open-minded. You know, the teams, you know, a lot of the issues that we saw in terms of the super clipping and things that fans didn't like in Melbourne or in Japan, the teams knew it was going to happen. You know, the teams told us it was going to happen a year and a half ago. Various engineers told me it was going to happen.

This is not a surprise. It's just become a surprise, I think, because maybe people didn't expect it. But for those of us within the sport, it's not been a surprise. I think what's clear is that the teams clearly have the knowledge, right? My point is they have the knowledge. They knew this was going to come about. And therefore, let's use that knowledge in a positive way. Let's use it for learning and how to make it better.

in this rule cycle and how to make the next rule cycle even better. So as someone, I'm not obviously, I've never driven a Formula One car and I'm not an engineer, maybe. Do you know how tweakable is the situation? I know that they've already tweaked a little. How far can they go beyond that 50-50? Like what is possible? Tell us what is possible. Essentially, it's a simple equation, right? You either need to increase the amount of power from the internal combustion engine or you have to reduce the electrical power that's how you rebalance that equation it's simple now how you do that is less simple increasing the ICE power probably involves increasing the fuel flow rate just to for people who may not understand the FIA

define in the rules what the fuel flow is the amount of fuel that's allowed to flow into the engine basically per hour. Now, that number was reduced by some margin by about 30% between last year and this year because there's more electrical power. Now, one option could be to increase that number so you get a bit more power from the electric, sorry, you get a bit more power from the engine, but that creates reliability problems. So that's not an easy fix. Maybe that's a fix for 2027 okay i think the tweaks that were done for miami generally when you speak to the teams and the drivers i thought they were positive but we're still very early in this rule cycle and miami was an end what we call an energy rich track there's lots of opportunities to recharge and harvest the

energy um and you were only really deploying on two big straights where where it got to a point of being critical. Canada, I think, will be a much bigger test. The reality is we have to be patient. We can't rush and do knee-jerk changes. Let's see what Canada's like. Hopefully, it will be more tweaks as the year unfolds. I think what has been good is people are within the paddock of being open-minded to, we have to change. We have to listen to changes. I know the drivers, for example fed back even small things that you guys at home won't notice but things like the procedures and the rules for the formation lap or the safety car lap the way they have to harvest the energy there are lots of rules around how you manage all of that all that goes under the radar

because it's not headline grabbing but for the drivers that's really important because that affects the restart or affects the start so i know even after the race in miami for example some of the drivers went to speak with some of the FIA people and gave them feedback because there were changes that were done and they thought some things were good, some things were not. You know, so what's good is I feel like there's a sense of an open dialogue or a more open dialogue. And we just have to keep going in that way.

You know, this is something that everyone has to get involved together. And do you think, because I do think that, like, sort of, the drivers have been often criticized in the past for being a little too robotic and they tow the company line and they're just sort of very stiff and they don't dare say anything without running it by PR. But then when a driver does speak out, for instance, and maybe doesn't like something,

then they could get a little bit bashed. I think that the driver should be able to speak freely about whatever their thoughts and feelings are and they shouldn't be robotic. But I know that some people don't. What are your thoughts about drivers just speaking their truth about how they feel about the car and the current formula?

I think they should be free to say whatever they want. But I think also, and it comes back to what I was saying earlier, I think it's one thing to be bashing things, but also I think it's important to offer constructive opinion on how you can fix it. the reality is there are lots of things on this planet that i don't like and i could sit here and say you know i don't like this and i don't like that and i don't like the way you know the government does this or these people do this or my local mp does that but you you're better off then adding the next sentence which is i think you should do this this this and this and this here's the solution here's a solution yeah yeah we can all sit here and criticize so many things on the planet right but like what's your solution and I think you know that's why for

example I got involved with working with the FIA and I work with Motorsport UK now you know I used to be on the FIA's driver's commission because I feel like it's very easy to sit there and say there are all these things wrong with our sport and then not do anything whereas actually well if you feel so passionately about things that are wrong then roll your sleeves up and try and make it better because then you know you've also got a responsibility to that so i know you you are quite involved with the fia so i wanted to ask you something realistically do you think we're going to see a woman in the next five years and in a formula one car in the next five years yeah and i don't mean testing around on an fp1 i mean with a full-time contract for a team

well i think you have to reverse that and right because then you're talking about somebody who's probably 14 15 years old today so who is the top 14 15 year old i guess there are some in f4 at the moment um if you look at i think the girls who are doing f1 academy but also doing f4 i think that's the way to do the reference you know f1 academy has done a fantastic job of highlighting that women can race it's funny how many people you know i go and do talks or different companies and stuff and how many people say to me they thought formula one was a male sport they thought by regulation it was a male sport until f1 academy came along really and they didn't actually know that it was a sport that is you know should be open to everybody yeah yeah wow so i think f1

academy has done a fantastic job of showing young girls especially hey you should go to the go-kart track because you can be a racing driver you can be in this world i think they play a really important role in that. But where it becomes tricky is to then judge how good those drivers are until they come into what I call the mainstream pyramid of 4, F3, F2, you know, and that's when you can judge them. Now, if you look at Dorian, for example, when she was in, I think she did Freca, didn't she? She did Formula Regional Academy. And then she wasn't at the front there. Abby Pulling has done a good job in F4. She's doing a good job in GB3, but she's not winning the championship so so really you know to answer your question what you're looking for is that 14

15 year old who is coming through the ladder with the momentum of a arvid lindblad or a you know an antonelli a behman a bortoletto a george russell orlando you know it's it's stand you're looking for one of those right the standout one who's winning an f3 winning an f2 and then bang arrives an F1 with a strong junior formula CV. These names I mentioned here, they've all won championships in the junior formula. And so therefore, I don't think that we have a candidate yet for the next five years. I hope that we get one in the next 10 years. Eight to 10 years, I think, is where I hope that we get somebody there. Do you think there's an issue, and because I've spoken about this with someone that maybe F2 should have power steering. Do you think that is an actual barrier to entry,

that literal physical anatomy and strength? What do you think about that? I think across the board, not just F2. I think, you know, we, and in fact, I'm no longer on the driver's commission, but that's one of the last subjects I brought up three, maybe three years ago, you know, and I got, I ended up getting involved in the conversations along with Jamie Chadwick at the time who was the W Series champion and Susie you know we all three of us were trying to bring this conversation forward and trying to push it through for the entire junior formula pyramid because actually I think and I think it was important to me that this shouldn't just be about a men versus women thing first of all it should be because there'll be teenage boys

you know who physically they all develop and grow in different ways 100 they have teenage boys who are not going to be physically strong enough to maybe turn the steering wheel so why should they be disadvantaged because of their physiological disadvantage obviously you know i think this there's no doubt about it biologically and physiologically this will affect younger girls more so 100 you know i i look at i think at the time and it's probably changed now but even two three years ago in japan for example there were companies who had developed power steering systems which you could retrofit onto japanese f3 cars at the time and if you look at the top level of motorsport whether it's sports cars and the world endurance championship gt racing f1 you know they

all use power steering exactly so it kind of feels like the pyramid below should be more relevant of course by using power steering so don't ask me why it didn't happen i'm not in that world anymore so I can't answer the question but I do think you know there's that it should be there it really should and and I think it would make a big difference but like you said we just need the people who make those decisions to make them I'm gonna step away from a second because I just saw that Mark Webber tested the gen 4 the formula e car would you like to have a go in that what are your thoughts around formula e I'm thinking that if they're bringing Mark Webber why not bring to test it i think i am going to have a go i'm just trying to sort out a date because i do the

tv stuff for them for yes i know that's why i thought it would make a lot of sense for you to do it yeah i know to be fair you know their ceo jeff dodds um a friend he was on our podcast loved oh was he right yeah i love him yeah no he um you know he's very good about you wanting to make sure that uh that the tv team and the commentary team are well informed of what we're talking about uh so i've driven the the gen one two three um so it'll be nice to experience the gen four and just i think it gives you a different dimension right when you're having to talk about these cars if you've actually driven it and i think that that's why i think a lot of us love hearing you and your your commentary because you know what you're talking about legitimately it's

Like when you hear Martin Brundle speak, when you know, you know, you explain things so well. I really enjoy how you keep it very cool, calm, collected. You make sense. You're not agitated. I really enjoy your commentary, but you know of what you speak. And I think that that comes across as well in Formula E. Love hearing you in Formula E. And they have a fun little championship on their hands.

How do you divide your time between both of them? Well, of course, F1 is a much bigger commitment. you know i got a 15 grand prix a year with f1 um and i i think this year it helps i formally have the double headers right so you know you when i go to jeddah or um monaco you know london they're all double header races so you actually end up doing two rounds in one um so i think this year i'm like five formally which is kind of the same i've done for the last few years um yeah it's a tricky balance you've got young kids so you know what it's like you know you've got to make sure that you're not on the road all the time it's complicated so yeah it's about finding that

balance and then finally i want to ask you a little bit about i call it my baby girl indycar do you follow indycar how much how much do you enjoy that sport i know your buddy will buxton now is over there he's also been a friend of the podcast and he adores the sport talk to us about IndyCar a little bit how much do you know about it follow it I mean I love IndyCar racing I think it's uh it's brilliant you know if I had to pick my single a single motor race on the planet that I love watching um outside of F1 it's the Indy 500 you know it's absolutely my favorite my favorite race outside the FF1 I got to go to the race in 2024 24 I was there with my dad we just went as fans you know we just went as fans and i sat in the grandstand at turn one for carb day and

it was funny actually there's a few f1 fans looking like hang on a second what were you doing with the hot dog following along on on your social media and thinking this is such a power move because you missed monaco to go to the indie 500 and i felt such love in my heart for you thinking wow this is showing the world that this race is that important yeah yeah i mean i wasn't to give it as a power move absolutely i was there on a jolly it was a really fun thing to do so yeah the next obviously this next month is super busy for the 500 i'll be watching it um we'll be in montreal you know it happens yeah knowingly it happens the same time as the grand prix so um i i will have a little window in the commentary box where i'll be i'll be keeping an eye on the

500 you know i thought like for example the new race in arlington was fantastic to watch really cool track looked like a great event it's great to see you know the the the depth of the driving talent on that grid now i think is is really high you've got brilliant drivers who've been around for a while like dixon and new garden willpower uh but obviously you've got people like pato kirkwood is doing a great job this year you know so i think there's it says pillow you know he's been a standout in recent years so what a pity we didn't get to see him in an f1 car he could have maybe done something special we will never know yeah we'll never know we'll never know but it's um i i you know i really enjoyed indycar racing so i'm i'm really excited about the 500

this month i'm sad colton hurta will miss it this time around but it's for good reason it's interesting because i i do follow f2 tangentially like i don't like put it in my calendar to watch the f2 races but i do i do watch but this year for sure i'm very committed because of colton because I'm such an IndyCar fan and it has nothing to do because he's an American driver. If any of my F2 buddies, IndyCar buddies would have ended up in F2, I would have followed along just because I care so much for that entire grid because I've grown up with those guys, I feel. I'm also very invested in F2 this year and seeing that journey. Hopefully, we get to see an American driver in F1 at some point, whether it's Colton or not. I hope it's Colton, but it would be nice,

Just like it would have been nice to have an Indian driver for Force India, it would be nice to have an American driver and an American team. We'll see. Yeah, I mean, it's a bold move he's made, isn't it? I wish him luck because I think it's cool, you know, to walk away from IndyCar when he was with a good team, earning good money and, you know, in a strong position there, to walk away from that and take a risk on doing F2

and with the hope of doing F1. I think it's cool. It's a cool story. You know, he looked competitive in free practice in Miami. I think then it went away from him a little bit as the weekend unfolded. But absolutely, we're all, you know, we're all keeping an eye on him. It's certainly a statement of intent. Karun, so next stop for you, Montreal, Montreal.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I love it. My home country. Yeah, yeah. You know, it's a, I love Montreal. First of all, it's a lovely city. Really passionate F1 fans.

You know, you get a sellout crowd. They're so passionate. I met my wife in Montreal back in 2011. So it's a, it's a bit of an extra special place. Nice. so yeah no very very nice memories of going to i mean i spent a lot of time in canada because she is canadian so i spent a lot of time in canada anyway but it's uh yeah it's a cool place to go back to i'm excited to maybe catch up with you we'll do a part two of this at the end of the

season and we'll see how the season played out we'll talk a little bit of maybe we'll see little tweaks on in the engine across we'll see what's coming up for 27 but for now i'm gonna let you go thank you so much for joining us it was an absolute pleasure talking to a driver really it's to me still it's like pinch me every time i get to talk to a professional driver so thank you so much for joining us today no problem