Bussin' With The Boys - Best of the Bus: Stephen A Smith On Competing With Pat McAfee + Staying On Top At ESPN

Episode Date: October 4, 2025

Recorded: February 9, 2024 | On this episode of Best of the Bus, the boys sat down with the leader at ESPN — the man who put the entire network on his back — Stephen A. Smith. Stephen chopped it up with the boys about his start in broadcasting and how he grew comfortable critiquing professional players. He shared insight into his relationships with athletes and the challenges those have brought over the years. Stephen A also explained why he knows he’ll remain number one at ESPN, even with the addition of The Pat McAfee Show. It was an episode full of great conversation, unique perspective, and a real look into the life of Stephen A. Smith. Enjoy, fellas.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey guys, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions.

Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast, Point Game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was harmed.

You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that Game 7, Marquis keep coming to. He's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, I'm Deanna Maria Riva, and on my new podcast, How Hard Can It Be? I call on my Gen X squad from Ohio to Hollywood as we navigate Midlife's most fantastic BS.

Unfiltered conversations from night sweats to fupas to scheduling sex. Wait, what sex? Is it just me or does every woman my age want to look at Pinterest instead of having sex sometimes? They say we can't polish a turd, but we're sure going to try. So let's get blunt with laughs, tears, or tears of laughter. Listen to How Hard Can It Be with Deanna Maria Riva On the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, Or wherever you get your podcasts.

Tell you, you want to kick it off? Yeah, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of Boston with the Boys. Very special guest today, The Legend, if you've been to turn on ESPN, probably in your entire life, you've seen this man sitting in front of you, giving takes, going at people,

having absolute receipts for everything, Mr. Stephen A-Seman. What's going on, fellas? How y'all doing? How y'all doing, man? Good to be here. Yeah, living the dream, man. We're happy you came. mom we actually just saw you an hour ago doing a little hit on ESPN i will tell you this it is a very

unique thing doing real tv because it's so fast-paced it is it is it is it's fast-paced and in our case is live so you mess up you mess up yeah you know i mean it ain't like somebody's gonna say we don't even have a seven-second delay so you know any any kind of hiccup that takes place you could say the wrong word the wrong thing or whatever you can find yourself in trouble so that's the pressure that comes along with doing live television but i like it so it is what it is How do you manage to keep your level of enthusiasm, work ethic with everything you're doing? You're also now in the podcast space, which is a massive one, by the way. And shout out your boy Bailey who's here.

I've followed him a while, and I know he kind of does a lot of your stuff. But how do you manage all of that stuff? Well, you got to do what you love. That's number one. I don't have a job. I have a career. I've often said when I give speeches and lectures, I say a job is doing what you have to do to sustain or elevate your quality of life.

for careers doing what you want to do, and it just so happens to do those things. But I also think the pressure of covering sports contributes to that kind of mentality. You know, you guys played in the NFL, you've got guys I'm covering the play to the NBA, Major League Baseball, Professional Boxes, UFC fighters, et cetera, et cetera. These are the best in the world. And when you consider the fact that you not only didn't do what they did on that level, but it was because you couldn't. yet you get to sit in judgment of how they performed,

how receptive folks should be to how they perform, how receptive people should be to your commentary about it, then you owe it to everybody to make sure that you put forth a full-fledged effort with passion and enthusiasm to let everybody know. Not only are you not playing around, but you care that much. And so that's the very least that you can do, and that's what I try to bring to the table.

When you're fighting through that process of knowing that these guys are playing at the highest, level doing their thing at the highest level and you are sitting there in judgment. How was the process for you as far as like feeling comfortable with putting out of judgment knowing you essentially haven't done what they did? You know, it was easy for me in this regard. I remember when I started out in the business and I had a clerical position at the Winston-Salem Journal newspaper in Winston-Salem, North Carolina because I went to Winston-Salem State

University, which is an historically black college and university. I went there and the sports editor, my first week on a job, sent me to Wake Forest University right down the road. Wake Forest was the number three ranked team in the nation in soccer. The only soccer match I had ever watched was Pele in the 1980 Olympics for the, you know, a little guess, right? And so what happened is, is that I knew nothing about soccer and I went to the coach who's now to see. seized, God rest his soul. His name was Walt Chisiewicz. And I walked up to him and I say, I know absolutely nothing about soccer. I've never covered it on anything, sir. But the boss sent me over here to do a feature on you guys. And I don't know what I'm doing. And,

but I really want to be a sports writer. Could you help me? And he summoned the entire team over. And he said, for the next three days, because my piece was doing a week, he said for the next three days, you guys are to give complete unadulterated access to Stephen to Stephen. Any question he asked, you answer. And he said, you, Stephen, meanwhile, every single practice of every day this week, you will be standing right next to me. And he taught me the game of soccer. And then when I finished the piece, which ultimately had the sports editor call me into his office the next day and say, congratulations, you're the new beat writer for Wake Forest Soccer. When I went to the coach after that and let him know, he said to me,

what do you think you've learned? What do you think you should have learned? I said, listen and learn. He said, you didn't play soccer, but you learned from those who do. And as long as you do that, then you're in a position to critique any of us, because the knowledge that you're getting is not of your own. it's one that was provided to you. And as long as you make sure you articulate that,

you will be respected because they know the lens that you're looking through is not that of your own. It's of ours. And I carried that with me for the rest of my career. How was it when you started to get those close personal relationships with athletes? You're obviously covering and now you are,

I mean, you're obviously a superstar now and everybody knows you. But as you're growing and then getting those closer relationships with guys and then having to go on, and talk about, you know, stuff that as an athlete you know is like personal to you, how did you start to balance that as you were getting those friendships? The parts about your performance never fazed me because you perform in a public platform. So the games themselves speak for themselves. You shoot two for 20.

It's on you. You throw three interceptions. That's on you. You fumble three times or whatever. You get burned and you're a cornerback and somebody catches to over 200 yards on you, okay? It's on you. I mean, there's nothing I can do for you. And that is what it is.

and I don't give a damn about how you feel because that was in a public setting and you put yourself on Front Street and that's what you have to deal with. It's the behind the scene stuff subject to interpretation and perspective or the personal stuff that I'm very, very guarded about. Because what happens is that if I have a relationship with you, the assumption is that there's a trust. How do you become friends with people? Do you become friends with people you have no trust for?

You don't believe in at all? You think every word out of their mouth is a damn lie? No, that's not what you do. Usually you cultivate these relationships and there's an affinity for one another and a level of trust that's built. So when somebody comes with a different perspective than the person you have a relationship with and it's in opposition to what they're saying to you, it can get tricky. And at that particular moment in time, you have to remind that friend, that person who's become a friend that you've cultivated a close relationship with, look, I've got an obligation to be fair. even if I know or I believe you and I think they may not be telling the truth

they're saying this for the record now off the record I ain't going to do that to you but if they say to you on the record you know what he ain't shit he's a liar this is what he did and blah blah blah it's not like I can make up a quote I got to quote him that's what he said I got to give it to him okay

and give you an opportunity to respond so it can get challenging in that regard but that really calls for you to remind somebody of your professionalism, your ethics, the responsibility that comes along with the job title that you have. And it also serves as a reminder to that person that trusts you. Why did you trust me to begin with? Because I exercised those same principles and cultivating the relationship.

Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, new? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it.

We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band.

Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. and then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys.

Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Hey, I'm Deanna Maria Riva, actress, mother, lover, and a Gen X woman walking through life one hot flash and hormonal crying jag at a time. You ladies know what I mean. I'll bet you a perimenopausal chin here you do. So let's talk about it. Join me on my new podcast. How Hard Can It Be with the Adamani Areva, where I call on my Gen X squads from Ohio to Hollywood as we navigate Midlife's most fantastic BS.

All of a sudden, I'd had hanginess happening on my own. I was like, what the hell is that? I was married when I had her, so I didn't even consider how empty that Ness was going to be. Mood swings, night sweats, fupas, sex drive. Wait, what sex? Dating at 45. How high can it be getting naked at 50 with the new guy? That one's kind of hard.

Well, that's lighting. They say we can't polish a turd, but we're sure going to try. So let's get blunt with laughs, tears, or tears of laughter, and dive into it, unfiltered and unbothered and ask, How Hard Can It Be? I cannot believe I'm about to say this out loud in public. Listen to How Hard Can It Be with Diana Maria Riva as part of My Cultura Podcast Network available on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What's up, fam? This is Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano and our podcast PointG game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before.

And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nasree. He has to guard Julius Rand. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing.

That man, hell get the flying. He run up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Oh, yeah. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I did with you. I can't go against it just because you're my man. I can't do that. And I've had those situations in my career before confronted by those kind of things, whether it be Alan Ivesant, Kobe

Brian, Shaquille O'Neal, Michael Jordan himself. The list goes on and on. You certainly have had those things where people have given their different perspectives aside for, that would be different from something that they said to me or whatever. And that's the challenge that you have to deal with. But when you're known as being straight up and up and up, what you learn to find from professional athletes that they appreciate most is not being blindsided. They see you coming. You know, they ain't open the paper or turn on the TV the next day and are utterly shocked by what you're doing.

And I think the greatest example of that was Isaiah Thomas when he was the head coach of the New York Knicks. They looked horrible. And there was a game in which they lost by 45 to Boston in Boston. And it was the most emotional that I had ever been in my career because I actually called him up and I almost started crying because he's the person that granted me my first ever interview

as a reporter. And I had to call him to let him know tomorrow I'm calling for you to be fired. Oh, damn. Because it was that bad. It was that bad. And I knew that he had a lot going on on a personal level. His mom was dying and, you know,

he wasn't all there with the New York Knicks at that particular. There's so much stuff that was going on in his personal life that he had to deal with that it really didn't give the the ideal example of what he was capable of doing as a coach. But the situation had regressed to such a point. Nobody worth their salt could support him staying on board. And I had to call him to let him know, this is what I'm doing tomorrow.

And he said to me, do what you got to do, bro. I understand. Is that a common thing for you when you have a relationship with somebody and it goes downhill in a certain way where you give them a call and you let them know this is how I'm about to go about. business. I'm the kind of person even if I don't have a relationship with you. If I know you and I know I can get in touch, if I know you well enough that I can get in touch with you, and I have something to say about you, I'm going to call you. I'm that guy. I'm not that guy

that's on TV, but never in line. When you don't see me in the locker room and stuff anymore, blame me SPN. You got me doing every damn show. So, you know what I'm saying? I'm on, I'm on there for hours, you know, I got to travel to this city, that city. I can only do but so much. But everybody that knows me knows, I've always had that reputation. I will show up to the games, I will show up to the locker rooms. There are times when people would see me lurking on the basketball court and they'd be like, who does he think he is? Like he's walking around the court before the games when guys on the layup line, they didn't

realize the reason I did that is because I knew I had a national television platform. And I knew that I didn't have to be that beat writer with a bunch of reporters surrounding your locker after a game or something like that. But you might want to holl at me. So I wanted to be in their vicinity. So if they wanted to speak to me, they can even come over and speak to me or come over and say, look, call me later or plan on meeting me at the spot later or whatever so we can talk. It was my way of giving them that kind of access to me in case they wanted to reach me.

In those situations, like when you're closer with guys, has there been a relationship of yours that has been burned because of... Alan Robertson and I didn't talk for eight months. And this is when I was the beat writer. Like, for those that don't understand, when you're the beat writer, wherever the team goes, you go. every single day, every single practice, you got to cover the team. I was covering the Philadelphia 76ers. And Alan Iverson and I went eight months without talking. And the only time we talked were a couple of times where he was like, fuck you.

And I was like, fuck you too. Like literally it was like that. You said it back to him? Yeah, right. Yeah, right. I did. You know, because that's how I felt at the time because I felt he was wrong. You know, but ultimately a friend of his that ultimately was killed years later,

believe it or not literally got us together and how do we get together. He had me meeting him at the club at 2 o'clock in the morning and I met him at the nightclub and out and I was looking at me like I was crazy because I showed up by myself. I said, I'm here. I said I'm here by myself. I said, because I can be but more importantly, I'm right. I did not do anything wrong. You did. You know? And we had a discussion and we were fine. What was he claiming that you did wrong? Well, we was writing some article, some article that I had written, he felt that I should not have written it because I didn't have all the facts and I didn't get his side. And I was like, you mean after trying to reach you for three days? You mean after trying to talk to you?

You mean coming to Fridays, coming to the club, you know, hollering at your friends and all. I'm like, you knew I was looking for you. I said your inaccessibility doesn't get to determine my productivity. I'm going to do my job. I reached out. I tried to find you. You weren't available. If you were available,

I would have told you everything. You would have given me your perspective and it might have altered my content. You weren't available. And you thought being inaccessible was going to prevent me from doing my job. Well, it did it. Lesson learned.

Make sure when I'm trying to reach you, I reach you because I'm not, how can I put this? fellas I mean I got a good life now you know you make a little paper and you know life is cool you know

it's I you know but I was never one of those nerdish dudes that needed my career to have a life I always had a life excuse my language I always have shit to do

okay for my own individual pleasures okay yeah and I got better things to do with my time to chase your ass around for a story. So if I'm looking for you and I'm looking for you and I'm looking for you, at some point in time, you better hope I'll find you if you want to have some influence

over the kind of things that I'm going to say. And if you avoid me for too long, that's at your own peril. Now, it's changed now because now I'm on national television. And so, and we live in the age of streaming in the digital stratosphere. So, you know, if you're in the morning and you're getting. 250, 300,000 viewers, that's considered good. Well, I'm doubling up on that. We've been number one for 12 years. We're the flagship show for the network, the worldwide leader. We're number one every day. And so I don't have to worry about people watching us now. And then on top of it all

in the digital stratosphere, me, myself and I, by myself, generate over two billion views annually. You're going to see me. You're going to hear me. Do you, you? You want to have some influence over what I say or not. If you talk to me, I have no problem. I have an obligation ethically to listen to what you have to say and to make sure, even if I disagree with you, that the context that you are providing is accurately displayed. If you don't talk to me, that's your damn problem.

I owe you nothing. I owe you absolutely, positively, nothing. All I have to say is whatever I want to say, I tried to reach him for comment. He was unavailable. Simple. We interrupt this episode to bring you ZipRecruiter. Our friends at ZipRecruiter conducted a recent survey that found that...

Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, name? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a...

We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember I think it was on a call about what we should call it And we were thinking I'm originally calling it

One of the early names of our band Before Jonas Brothers This is how you guys remember it going down Yes I have a very different memory of this We were talking about a thing A bit for the podcast For people could call in and say hey Jonas And then I wrote down on my little notepad

Hey Jonas and offered it up as a potential title For the podcast But thanks for remembering that guys listen to hey jonas on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast just listen we don't care where you hear it hey i'm diana maria riva actress mother lover and a gen x woman walking through life one hot flash and hormonal crying jag at a time you ladies know what i mean i'll bet you a pari menopausal chin here you do so let's talk about it join me on my new podcast how hard can it be with diana mania riva where i call on my gen x squads from ohio to hollywood as we navigate midlife's most

fantastic b s all of us all of us sudden I'd had hanginess happening on my own. I was like, what the hell is that? I was married when I had her, so I didn't even consider how empty that nest was going to be. Mood swings, night sweats, fupas, sex drive. Wait, what sex? Dating at 45. How can it be getting naked at 50 with a new guy? That one's kind of hard. Well, that's lighting. They say we can't polish a turd, but we're sure going to try. So let's get blunt with laughs, tears, or tears of laughter, and dive into it. unfiltered and unbothered and ask, How Hard Can It Be?

I cannot believe I'm about to say this out loud in public. Listen to How Hard Can It Be with Diana Maria Riva as part of My Cultura Podcast Network available on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defining the odds.

Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play. the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reed. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's

friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash will get that thing. That man, hell get to fly. He running up the court, licking his fingers, why he got the ball. Like, you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The top hiring challenge employers that the top hiring challenge employers face for 2024 is a lack of qualified candidates.

And right now, you can try it for free at ziprecruiter.com slash bussen. If you're an employer and need to hire, here's the good news. ZipRecruiter has smart tools and features that help you find more qualified candidates fast. You can use ZipRecruiter's invite to apply feature to send top candidates a personalized invite to encourage them to respond to your job post. Let ZipRecruiter help you conquer the biggest hiring challenge, which is finding qualified candidates. See why four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter. ZipRecruiter, get a quality candidate within the first day. Just go to this exclusive web address right now to try ZipRecruiter for free.

ZipRecruiter.com slash BUSS-N. on ZipRecruiter. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. Back to the episode. When you're established yourself doing all this, how did you establish relationships with these athletes and also stay as unbiased as possible and become a straight shooter? When did you start to realize? okay, I'm finally getting the reputation of who I actually am,

and I feel I can be more free to be myself. Well, from day one, I always let them know, don't look for any pity from me when it comes to your game because everyone's watching. If I'm sitting in, I'm talking to y'all right now, and we're having a private conversation, that's between us, and I can interpret it, and we can discuss it, and I can shut up about it going on my merry way,

and it's between us. But with these cameras rolling in with the world watch and I can't help you. What you say is what you say. What you own is what you own. And it's the same principle when you're watching these guys perform. And so the first order of business is for me

to let them know that I'm going to be incredibly objective in calling out what I see on the basketball court. But there are other things that I do and this is where the relationship really elevated. I'm from the streets in New York City. No, I didn't smoke weed, but I know about getting high because I was surrounded by it all my life. I was surrounded by drugs all my life.

I was surrounded by violence all my life. I was surrounded by folks partying all my life, all of this other stuff. So all of the things, the vices, the temptations and everything like that, I'm a streetwise brother. I kind of know. So if you show up to a game, I don't need a test to know if you hide. I'm looking right at you. I know if you high. I know if you drunk.

And then when you dig the way that I dig, because remember, I'm a beat right at the time. So you get to know everybody. And this is what people don't realize about people that are beat writers with a beat writer's nature. You don't only just know the athletes, the coaches, the player personnel directors, the scouts, the values. You know their families. You know their friends. You know their hangarons. You know their associates.

You know all of that stuff. So just imagine that you're covering sports and you're dealing with 20-year-olds and late-20s and early 30s. And imagine the stuff that you're making all of this money and the stuff that you might find yourself getting into because you know you live in a life that most people don't get to live. Think about the trouble that brings. You think I didn't know? You think I didn't know that you got traded because you were fucking the same girl as the coach and the coach wanted you gone? You think I don't know that the coach couldn't stand you because you tried to came on, you tried to come on to his wife and his wife was interested. Do you think that I don't know that

you really, really can't stand this dude because guess what? You wouldn't trade with this team because that former executive used to screw around with your wife and you didn't want anybody to know. That's why when you remember, if you recall when we were doing the whole Boston Celtics thing where EMA Udoka got pushed out because of a consensual relationship with somebody, you saw me going ballistic because I was like, oh, that's the first time that happened. I've been in this business for 30 years. there ain't a year that went by that I don't know about people screwing around in the office.

It's always happening. Like, always. But this guy is the one y'all going bust. Now, that pissed me off. Because I'm like, there's a code. And what I didn't want to say, but I will say any damn way, because I'm still getting pissed off about it, just thinking about it. It was almost like, it's like, wait a minute here. You know, did I bring up the black element?

Sure, because there's a whole bunch of white dudes the last time I was. I check, y'all like sex too. You know what I'm saying? Nobody's telling you on y'all. We love it. We love it. Ain't nothing wrong with it. So the point is, so the point is, I mean, I get it, I get it.

But what really ticked me off as well is that there's certain codes. Like, if you, without getting into details because I don't want to get sued, you kind of know that the person that he was with had connections to somebody else within an organization. Can I say that? You can say that. So I'm going like this. Now, is that not the epitome of weakness as men? Your woman is messing around with somebody allegedly, right? And you victimizing him.

Well, he wasn't in a relationship with you? She was. But he victimized. But you still probably with that person. Really? Now, I'm saying that as men, we would call a dude out for that. We'd be like, yo, that's pretty damn weak. I mean, if you couldn't handle your business, you couldn't handle your business.

But as wrong as he might have been, unless he was your friend or brother, whatever, he ain't owe it to you. You understand what I'm saying? She did. But they called him out. And I didn't want to go nuclear at that moment and say that. But that's what I was thinking, like, you know, you get. got to be pretty damn weak to be instigating this kind of shrapnel. Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers.

And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it.

We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should. call it and well we were thinking I'm originally calling

it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers was this is how you guys remember it going down yes I have a very different memory of this we were talking about a thing a bit for the podcast for people could call in and say hey Jonas and then I wrote down on my little

notepad hey Jonas and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast but thanks for remembering that guys listen to hey Jonas on the iHeart radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm CJ Toledano, and our podcast, Point Game is about defining the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed.

And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us

on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get to fly. He running up the court, licking his fingers while he got the ball, like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah,

you figure it out. real quick. Get your ass up and down the court and you're going to get the balls. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Deanna Maria Riva, actress, mother, lover, and a Gen X woman walking through life one hot flash and hormonal crying jag at a time. You ladies know what I mean. I'll bet you a perimenopausal chin here you do. So let's talk about it. Join me on my new podcast. How Hard Can It Be with Deanna Maria Riva, where I call on my GenX squads from Ohio to Hollywood as we navigate

midlife's most fantastic BS. All of a sudden, I'd had hanginess happening on my own. I was like, what the hell is that? I was married when I had her, so I didn't even consider how empty that nest was going to be. Mood swings, night sweats, fupas, sex drive. Wait, what sex? Dating at 45. How can it be getting naked at 50 with the new guy?

That one's kind of hard. Well, that's lighting. They say we can't polish a turd, but we're sure going to try. So let's get blunt with laughs, tears or tears of laughter, and dive into it unfiltered and unbothered and ask, how hard can it be? I cannot believe I'm about to say this out loud in public. Listen to How Hard Can It Be with Diana Maria Riva

as part of my Cultura podcast network available on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Because you didn't handle your business. You know, I'm not fault. I'm not saying she wasn't wrong and he wasn't wrong or whatever. but there was another element to it that came with it that you saw. There was a level of vindictiveness and hostility aimed solely at him who was not married. And he wasn't involved with you.

So why is he the one suffering more than anybody else? That's where I was coming from. And those kind of perspectives you get from seeing a lot and being around a lot and covering sports and seeing a whole bunch of things that go on. That was the stuff that that noise away at me because I look for consistency. I want fairness. It doesn't matter whether it's right, wrong, whatever.

I understand we can debate it or whatever. But consistency needs to be the order of the day when we're doing this. And that's what I try to bring. When you talk about you brought the code, it obviously it's easy sitting as Stephen A. Smith right now the goat. But when you're a beat writer, just trying to scratch and claw for that interview

and you know things are going on and you could it be very easy for you to get way more clicks or way more whatever by saying hey so-and-so was cheating with so-and-so or whatever philandering is going on in this facility how did you figure out the code like how quickly do you learn that this code exists well for me it's it's a personal decision my personal morals and ethics are different than other people fellas there's certain lines i'm just not crossing i don't know y'all from a can of pain i'm just meeting y'all happy to get to know y'all here about the show all the time i've watched you guys a couple of times y'all do a great job.

Man, I could see you doing something that I might deem to be unethical as it pertains to your personal relationship with somebody. Man, that ain't none of my damn business. I may not like it. I might hold it in, but I'm not diming you out. I'm just not doing it.

It's none of my business. Now, you go on a football field and you play like garbage. That's different. You understand? I'm going to say that. You understand. You said that before. And by the way, and by the way,

And by the way, and by the way, if you do that because we've seen people, I've seen people show up the games and you look sluggish. The audience didn't know you were screwing somebody two hours ago, but I did because I knew her. See what I'm saying? So I'm not going to tell on you, but I'm going to go like this. I don't know what was wrong with him. He seemed a bit slow. You know, legs didn't seem to be there.

You know, my way of letting him know. Man, I know what you did. What's the matter with you? You couldn't wait till after the game? You know, that's how now I've done. Or a guy that, you know what? You're on the sauce a little bit. You're drinking a little bit too much alcohol.

You know, you ain't supposed to be doing that. You're supposed to do that the night before. Not an hour before the game. You know, and I'm like, I'm looking at you. Like, you know, you didn't seem like yourself. You seemed a little bit off kilter. And, you know, they raised the eyebrow because they know what I'm alluding to, but the audience does it.

You see what I'm saying? But I'll do stuff that's to let them know. Yeah, I could, but I'm not, but don't think I don't know. Come on, man, do your job. Do your job. And then afterward, live your life. And so, you know, I've been doing stuff like that, you know, throughout my career. The difference between me now and then you got some of these athletes can't stand my ass, hate my ass, whatever case would be because they see me on TV. They don't have a relationship with me.

But the reason why is because I'm stuck in studio and I can't get to the games the way that I used to as many games. I used to go to like 200, like 120, 125 games a year. Now I have to cut that in half because of my schedule. But the reason why they could feel that way now compared to where they were before is because before this was me, I'd roll right up into the locker room. You seem like you got a problem. What's up? You can't possibly have a problem.

How could you possibly have a problem? You know what the hell you did. You know, and I would roll up on them like that. I remember years ago, mad love and respect for John Wall. But John Wall, I was doing first take. John Raw, Wall walked up and he was like, you know, I just wish cats like, you know, Stephen Ney, you know, say something on TV, be man enough to, you know, come to the locker room. Knowing good and damn well.

I couldn't get to Washington that day. Man, brother said that stuff, man. I took off my microphone going to commercial break. I flew to D.C. I was in front of his locker that night. Like, what? like I'm scared to do my job. I'm not talking about no fighting or anything.

You're acting like I'm scared to do my job. This is my job. I am not scared to do my job ever, ever. This is my job. Personal stuff is beyond the scope of the job. That's wrong. You know, somebody disrespecting your family member, your girls. No, no, you want to bust ass.

Can't have that because you violate in codes. But me just doing my job, if you can't play, you can't play. you play like garbage you play like garbage you're messing up you're messing up me scared to do that anybody that implies that they're going to see me in front of that locker room they're going to see me in front of that i'd walk in the middle of the dallas cowboy locker room after a game if they said something like that about me you got to be crazy because that's the job and i'm never going to be scared to do my job your first big break getting in the national television can you talk about that and then also seeing it transcended to what it's become and obviously

obviously the spotlight of Stephen A. Smith. But when was your first big break on when you do hit that national television scene? I think when people would say when it was CNNSI, which was a big deal, because I was on the NBA show on Sunday mornings. But I would say the real big break was when I went to Fox Sports Television because it was before the formation of the best damn sports show, period. And I was on their national sports. They had their national sports desk. Kevin Frazier, who's now at entertainment tonight, was one of the hosts along with various others.

He's a dear friend of mine. And I went there, Jim Rome had, Rome is the last word, I believe, was the name of the show. When he came to ESPN, it was Rome as Burning, which is always a great name. I always love that name. But I was there, and Jim Rome would bring me into his office after shows and talk to me and give me guidance,

you know, about some of the minefields to maneuver through and what kind of things to watch out for, which I was always greatly appreciative for. And so I would call that my first big break because being in television and making that kind of noise when ESPN was so prolific, that was one thing. But then the creation of the best damn sports show period, they offered me the job full time. I turned it down, which is how John Sally got offered the job. The reason I turned it down is because I knew that my aspirations would end up at ESPN one day. And I knew in order to achieve that I had to be taken seriously.

and I would never be able to be taken seriously if I was sitting next to a comedian that was Tom Arnold every day. I'm not talking about him specifically. I'm talking about any comedian. It was a comedic show, or at least they aspired for it to be that way. And for me to go there and sit next to him every day,

I knew aesthetically, optics-wise, that would not be a good look if I wanted to be taken seriously. So I declined to play that role on that show and instead elected simply to be an NBA insider for that network. And lo and behold, a year later, ESPN came calling. In 2003, I landed at ESPN, and everything has taken off since then. How do you get to that conclusion with Best Damn Sports Show period,

where they're offering you a job, they're offering you probably more money than you've been making before, and to have the wherewithal to sit there and be like tactically, strategically, in this video game of life I'm playing, This is not the move to make, although it's better right now that it is. Same thing you're doing now. You're playing a long game. You know, clicks. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers.

And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, new? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a...

We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down?

Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey, Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Hey, I'm Deanna Maria Riva, actress, mother, lover, and a Gen X woman walking through life one hot flash and hormonal crying jag at a time.

You ladies know what I mean. I'll bet you a perimenopausal chin here you do. So let's talk about it. Join me on my new podcast. How hard can it be with Deanna Maria Riva, where I call on my GenX squads from Ohio to Hollywood as we navigate midlife's most fantastic BS. All of a sudden, I'd had hanginess happening on my own. I was like, what the hell is that? I was married when I had her, so I didn't even consider how empty that nest was going to be. Mood swings, night sweats, fupas, sex drive.

Wait, what sex? Dating at 45. How can it be getting naked at 50 with a new guy? That one's kind of hard now. Well, that's lighting. They say we can't polish a turd, but we're sure going to try. So let's get blunt with laughs, tears, or tears of laughter. And dive into it unfiltered and unbothered and ask, how hard can it be? I cannot believe I'm about to say this out loud in public.

Listen to How Hard Can It Be with Diana Maria Riva as part of My Cultura podcast network available on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defining the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves,

I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense.

And when IT's friends stop by like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash will get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers while he got the ball, like, after you go through a training camp with that, I said, you figure it out real quick.

Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It would be nice. Views per episode would be nice. A subscriber base that builds is something that you want.

know what the business entails. But if you want to do something and just be a one-off, that's entirely different than building a career that's sustainable. And for me, I always played the long game. I still do. I think ahead. You know, somebody asked me the other day, they said, yeah, man, what did you do when you got your contract in 2018? I said, I went home. I was a little sad for a little while because I lost my mom a year earlier, got rest of soul after a long battle with cancer. And I said, so I licked my wounds there because I was sad because I knew the kind of money that I was earning

what I was going to be able to do for her if she had been alive. And I had never had a chance to do that, you know, for her what I would have been able to do for her after I signed that contract. But then ultimately I spent some time with my sisters and, you know, and my family, my daughters and everything. like that for the weekend. That Monday morning, I woke up and they said, what were you thinking about? I said, my next contract.

And I wasn't playing. I knew that I had five and a half years to go. And I was thinking about five and a half years down the road. What am I going to do and where am I going to be in five and a half years? And that is my mentality, always, to try to maintain three, five, ten steps ahead to see the forest from the trees to anticipate the kind of things that are going to happen. So I'm not lost in the shuffle and we're not rewinding the clock back to 2009 when I'm asked out unemployed, wondering what my prospects are, wondering whether or not I have any living off my savings and

knowing that I had about six to eight months to survive on that. My goal is to never be in that position again. And so I think like that. What is your vision? What do you envision for yourself down the road. Like, you know, obviously you signed a massive deal with ESPN. You're Stephen A. Smith. You've come out with the podcast. Everybody knows this media landscape on the leveraging and building your own platform. Okay, I'm on this massive network. You might think you're building me up. Let me go show you how I can do it on my own as well. What is the North Star look like for you, five, ten years down the road? Well, the North Star for me is to have that level of independence to establish it in such a way where I'm there because I want to be there, not because I need to be

there. I love working for Disney. Disney and ESPN. I love being associated with the world of sports. I think that's one of the five pillars in this nation that you want to attach yourself to if you can pull it off. And I'm certainly not interested in giving that up. But I'm neither going to lie nor be apologetic about what I want for myself. I've done a lot at ESPN. My contract's up in 17 months. I'm interested in staying if I have the opportunity to do it. an abundance of other things that I want to do. If that opportunity doesn't present itself, then I'll have decisions to make. And so will they. I own my own production company. I'm producing a docu-series.

Actually, it comes out later this month. It's a three-part series on the history of sports commentators. I've got another series that has been green-lit, a drama series that I've created, that I'm not at liberty to talk about, but it has nothing to do with Disney or ESPN. I've created a drama series. That's coming out.

I've got my podcast, which is not really a podcast. It's a show. Why? Because I spent my own money and seven figures to build my own television studio. I want people to look at it and think hybrid. It's not linear. It's not digital. It could be both.

You want a linear sports show? Got you. You want a sports digital show? Got you. You want a podcast? Got you. You want a late night show? Done.

You want an afternoon talk show? Fine. You want me to be another version of PTI or something? like that, good. You want another creation of first take? Fine. You want me to create a weekly format show that would rival real time with Bill Maher or the John Oliver show or the Daily show? Fine. Whatever it is, I can do it because I've shown I can do it. And so that's where my mentality is, having the doors open, the opportunities available to me and being in the position to explore things that I may have never imagined because I never knew it was available to me,

because all anybody thought about when they saw me was sports. Now they don't think like that anymore. They see my range. So who's to say whether it's me or somebody else that wants to work with me comes forth with a level of creativity and ingenuity necessary to say, Stephen A, this is what we think we could do with you and for you. This is the kind of money that you can make. Because the one thing I will never apologize for, I am about my money.

I want to get paid. I ain't apologizing for that shit to anybody. I'm not talking about Disney. I'm not talking about ESPN. I'm talking about colleagues, contemporaries, people who have been in this business who knows what it takes to succeed. Look at my resume.

Look at what I've accomplished. Oh, make no mistake. I intend to get paid. I can tell you that. I'm telling you right now on this, on YouTube when we post this, black and white, music, behind it, subtitles the whole thing.

That thing is going to go nuts. I know you have to lead, but obviously the competitive drive, the why. You have literally everything. And in sports, when you're on a team, your goal is to win the Super Bowl or the NBA championship, all these different things. You're competing against other teams. But also internally on the team you're at, you're competing with the guys around you.

And so ESPN comes in. You talked about 2 billion views. You talked about being the man, number one for 12 years. And you see ESPN making a pivot to. McAfee, obviously great for the network. How do you, in your mindset, view a guy like McAfee, who is extremely good at his job

in a lot of ways is changing the course of mainstream media and all those things. From a competitive standpoint, and also as a partner. I am an aberration in this regard. I love Pat McAfee. He's a man. Love him to death. Love to death. I love his swag.

I love the fact that he's an honest brother. He don't give shit. Let you know exactly where he's standing. That's my kind of dude. That works for me. Now, is he as polished politically as me? Nope. Because he has no desire to be, number one.

And number two, if we're being honest, he's white and I'm black. He didn't have to be. I had to be. So I get all of that. And I'm not knocking him for it. I get it. Pat McAfee is a sensational talent. And it would be stupid for me not to root for him.

Because he's one of the pioneers in this business, just like Bill Simmons is. just like Joe Rogan is, in others. What they have done for themselves in the digital stratosphere speaks for itself. I'm new to this. I'm a baby. I'm approaching 550,000 subscribers in 10, and a half months.

People see me, oh, my God, you're averaging over 2,000 subscribers a day and look at the views per episode. It's just climbing and climbing and look at the consistency, the growth, especially my guy Bailey, the social media guru. I mean, he's trying to, he's painting this beautiful picture every day. I'm looking at the fact that my numbers pale in comparison

to those folks who have been near and have like a four, five, seven, eight year head start on me. Why? Because I'm looking at who's number one and why. Okay? But in the same breath. Hey, it's us, the Jonas brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast?

Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers.

This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, Hey Jonas, and then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever.

play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying.

He running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball. Like, you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Oh, yeah. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Deanna Maria Riva, actress, mother, and a Gen X woman walking through life one hot flash and hormonal crying jag at a time. You ladies know what I mean. I'll bet you a perimenopausal chin here you do.

So let's talk about it. Join me on my new podcast. How hard can it be with the Adamia Riva, where I call on my Gen X squads from Ohio to Hollywood as we navigate midlife's most fantastic BS. All of a sudden, I'd had hanginess happening on my own. I was like, what the hell is that? I was married when I had her,

so I didn't even consider how empty that nest was going to be. Mood swings, night sweats, fupas, sex drive. Wait, what sex? Dating at 45. How hard can it be getting naked at 50 with the new guy? That one's kind of hard. Well, that's lighting. They say we can't polish a turd, but we're sure going to try. So let's get blunt with laughs, tears, or tears of laughter, and dive into it, unfiltered and unbothered and ask, how hard can it be?

I cannot believe I'm about to say this out loud in public. Listen to How Hard Can It Be with Diana Maria Riva as part of my Cultura podcast network available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Don't get it twisted. I love Pat. Pat knows that. I'm rooting for him. I help him anyway. I can't help him.

But we know who number one in linear television is. You know, my own backseat. You've been number one for 12 years. People come. People go. People come. People stay. But there's a top perch.

Now, you can take it away. Knock on wood. It could be next year. It could be next week. It could be two years, five years from now, whatever. but since 2012 it's been me with Skip Payless

without him with Max Kellerman with Adam with a pulpery of contributors it don't matter I come to win and when it come to

linear television that's exactly what the fuck I have done and so my attitude is as long as I'm doing it I'm gonna continue to win McAfee or no McAfee get up or no get up

it don't matter who it is FS1 Comcast whatever you come for me I'm coming for you I'm here to win. Digital is different because I'm a baby. I'm crawling. I'm an infant. You understand what I'm saying? I ain't learned out of walk yet.

You understand what I'm saying? Let alone run and sprint. But once I get to that point, I'm going to come for folks then too. But in the process of doing so, it will never be to root for them to fail. And that's why I'm very guarded when people sit up there and they tried to, I remember Dan Levitar said one time, you know, he wants to ruin Skip's career and he had to retract that statement because that's totally false. I never want Skip to fail. I just don't want them to be number one

over me. Same thing with Kishon, Michael Irvin, Richard Sherman. These are my boys. I don't want them to fail, but they know who's trying to be number one. And look, these are Hall of Famers. These are Super Bowl champions. When they roll up over there, you know, man.

We know you. I said, you know I'm coming for you, right? You know, you know don't expect to beat me. You understand? Now, of course, one day, can. Hell, it could be them or somebody else. But all in fun, I'm letting them know I don't ever root against you. I don't ever want you to fail. But in the same breath, it is perfectly within my right to want to be number one. And I want to be that guy that's at the top of the perch that reaches back, white and black, finding young talent, folks on a come up, inspiring and

motivating and assisting others in being their best selves. But do I want you to be better than me? No, no. And I'm going to do everything that I can to make sure you're not better than me. I've done it in linear television. I'm going to continue to do it in linear television, at least as long as I have a contract to do so. And hopefully I'll be able to do it in the digital stratosphere as well. And then after that, it's kind of production we're doing around here. You see that?

We're trying to throw you off. Not seven figures in this one. Talking about being the one. Steve, hey, this has been an honor, man. Thank you so much. I wish we had a longer time. I don't know if you saw on the internet All Black versus All White Team.

Okay. I did not see that. You didn't see that? It should have been something you'd be covering. Yeah. It's a big deal. It's a big deal. You know that one.

Tell me about that. And if you look at the all white team, except for that backing on defense. Okay. Not a bad squad. I'll check it out. Yeah. I'll check it out.

I think the Black Squad's minus 24 and a half. We go over it. But it'll be all right. Okay. Yeah. We'll get you. Man, thank you. Appreciate you.

That was all time. Appreciate you all. All the best of both of y'all. keep doing the great job and doing it. We'll be seeing you soon. All right, sir. Take care. Hey, guys, it's us.

The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. Nice. We invented a podcast?

Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We get to ask other people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it.

What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast, Point Game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was hungry. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that Game 7, Marquis keep coming to. He's like, you know I love you, dog.

You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app. podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Deanna Maria Riva, and on my new podcast, How Hard Can It Be? I call on my Gen X squad from Ohio to Hollywood as we navigate Midlife's most fantastic BS. Unfiltered conversations from night sweats to fupas to scheduling sex. Wait, what sex? Is it just me or does every woman my age want to look at Pinterest instead of having sex sometimes?

They say we can't polish a turd, but we're sure going to try. So let's get blunt with laughs, tears, or tears of laughter. Listen to How Hard Can It Be with Diana Maria Riva on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.