Bussin' With The Boys - JJ Redick

Episode Date: May 31, 2022

Recorded: May 19, 2022 | JJ Redick blesses the bus with his presence this week and shares story after story that will leave you speechless. Mt. Busmore? Only way to find out is to listen and rate 5 stars. Intro (0:00) JJ Redick interview starts (12:10) Ranking players in the NBA (15:30) Anxiety of starting of a podcast (27:30) Knowing when to retire from basketball (39:00) NBA player power vs. NFL players power within the leagues (49:30) What it was like being the most hated college athlete (1:12:00) JJ Redick's lowest moment (1:18:27) Routines (1:26:10) Importance of therapy (1:42:10) Tier Talk - Best Pizzas - (1:55:40) MJ or Lebron?? (2:10:41) ----- SHOP: https://store.barstoolsports.com/collections/bussin-with-the-boys FOLLOW THE BOYS Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bussinwtb Twitter: https://twitter.com/BussinWTB Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/BussinWTB Website: https://www.bussinwtb.com ----- SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS: Chevy: Chevy Silverado - The Strongest, Most Advanced Silverado Ever. Duke Cannon: Check out Duke Cannon at any Target or on DukeCannon.com and use code “Bussin” for 15% off your first order. Revitalye: Pick up your Revitalyte Black Label today in-store or online at the Barstool Store and tweet at us or tag @drinkRevitalyte in your morning after stories Whistle Pig: Get your own bottle at shop.whistlepigwhiskey.com or at a local retailer.For more, visit barstool.link/bussinwtbSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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I'm telling you, bro. That's why I had a clap going on the entire time because I was thinking about we had fucking JJ Redd on the bus. Who's literally everywhere right now. Yes, bro. Everywhere, dude, everywhere you look. You see people saying, like, we need to protect him at all costs on ESPN, like all of us. All of us. He's on first take a lot, right?

First take. I'm not sure what other segments. He's fine Stephen A. Smith and that hairline. Battling, bro. Yeah. Yeah, and he said, end that hair line. And mad dog. Like, J.G's out there fighting the good fight.

He really is. For the boys. Very, very intellect. Very intellectual. Yeah, very intellectual. That's the word. That's the word. Guys, a fucking.

Very insightful. His vocabulary kind of pissed me off a little bit. because it made me feel less than. It's my own issue, though. That is. My own issue. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's my own bag to unpacked.

Pat McAfee did tweet the other day, like, if you're going to be dumb, like, you've got to be a tough guy. Yeah. I think when JJ's talking, you get a little mad, you want to get a little angry. Gotta be tough. All right. Yeah. So, look at me.

I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. Right. You know what I'm saying. You're in the beautiful thing. The way you need to be. And a cool thing that Jayj said to us was that, like, he's, like, he's like, not doing a lot of stuff of people right now. like he committed to doing bustling with the boys,

which is really cool of him. But then after the party, he's like, yeah, there's a lot of people just asked me to do stuff every single day. And I just, it's so overwhelming. So I'm not, I'm not going to be doing that stuff.

Recently because he's been crushing it. Cushing it. And we, he's humble too. Oh, bro. He was fucking awesome, bro. Unreal. He legit took over the podcast,

low key. Cause, spoiler alert, we're not huge basketball guys. We don't really know what's what? We don't have like the knowledge. He's got a, so you know when the boys, we're in the top five of the charts now.

Apple, Spotify. We're living in those charge guys. Living, dude, living top 10. Shout out everyone listening, dude. Continue to download our episodes on audio. Like, even if you watch on YouTube, if we're watching on YouTube right now, just as we're talking, pull out your phone, bring up Apple or Spotify, download this episode.

That shit helps us, bro. But a podcast that lives in that top five with us is the old man in the three, which is JJ Reddick's podcast. He's got a banger podcast. Bangor. But, yeah, man, he's a stud. Any white kid growing up, dude, you wanted to shoot like J.J. Reddick. let's see, hey, I thought he was black

the day before he came on. He said, zero, anything about basketball, bro. He never had a shoot a ball. I'm fucking wet. I tweeted and had a gif of who JJ Reddick was. He's like, oh, I thought he was black until you had that gif. Yeah. But if you watch basketball of any kind,

like you wanted to be a JJ Redick back in the early 2000s. Yeah, 100%. But yeah, got a stud podcast, the old man in the three. He's the only his panties everywhere. Dude is dishing out, knowledge. left and right about the game of basketball because like Taylor said, he's arguing with Stephen A. Smith and Mad Dog all the time. And also, what's his name?

Pat, Pat Bev, Beverly. Yeah. Some good conversation. Great defensive player. They make that show. I've been doing homework since the pod. Don't get twisted now, boys. I'm learning about basketball.

Like, not, and I'm not saying the show isn't entertaining, but I feel like I've tuned in a couple more time, a few more times now just because, like, JJ Redick, Pat Bev and those young cats are, like, and they're, like, arguing with the old heads and, like, dropping knowledge. You know what I mean? arguing for the boys. But yeah, dude, we had an awesome tear talk about pizza.

Pizza was the tier talk. And that's where we kind of all kind of lost it with each other. I think that's where he kind of put himself on a pedestal because he lives in the Northeast. I think that's what it is. That's the word. Like you guys don't know pizza.

And then my tier one, you guys both shit on, which is fine. I understand that's not going to be the number one pick of anybody, like for a lot of people, but for me it was number one. But he was, I think he said the best thing we said was cheese and that low-key is disrespectful

He's saying some crazy shit Dude like we're trying to have like He's just using big words dude He just said leaps But he used like sage and I'll say just a small word You know what I'm saying More letter word

You know what I'm saying big ass words Piece of shit I'm getting tough again I'm getting tough again But yeah he uh It was just to You know we're just trying to have a good time Like hey let's like pick out candies

And pizzas and shit like that He's like coming ass with some crazy Northeastern time. But those dudes, those different kinds of cheese. I do think they're a lot better than like the Midwest, the Southern guys. You know how they are. Which is like kind of a staple for them? You were in New York. Was the pizza that much better?

You can be honest. The pizza is really good out there. Okay. The pizza is really good. It was that much better. I need you to say it was that much better. Oh, it's not that much better. No.

No, no. Like there's competitive pizza all over the country, I feel like. Is there anywhere in Nashville that you would say we could compete with New York? That's a good question, right? Are we given some free shoutouts? You can just, I mean, is there an actual yes? Because in my head, there might not be. Do you fucking Joey shut down?

Yeah. I would say that one. Joey's the house of, Joey's House of Pizza? Really? Yeah, I mean, Dave brought it on that one time that he tried. He gave it like a high eight rating. No way. Yes, bro.

Dave, when he came to three spots, he went to in Nashville, it was Joey's five points and one other one. But they all got, they all got in the eights, bro. Really? Respect. And I will say five points is good. You're mouse watering. Right.

Rock and dough is low-key, solid. Smith and Lince and East National is a brewery, and everyone who's eating it, claims it's been the best. I haven't had that. I would love to try it. You got to try it out, Smith and Lentz. And midnight oil, bro.

Midnight oil, off 51st. You brought them out of the feet on the feet of heat. You brought it up on this pot, actually. Oh, shit, yeah. Well. Joey's brother still has a pizza spot though, it's called Manny's. It's very similar to Joey's. There are brothers

they competed in like the pizza world but Manny's is still open. It's over at the arcade. I'm glad you said that because when I saw Joe's a shot and then I was a little bummed that like I only had it that one time. That's a huge one. It was only opening afternoons from like 11 a.m. to 4 p.m. Not open on weekends and only open on those

afternoons in the weekdays. Is this the plainly operational? Is this the place that Fortinois was like I'm coming here? And then they were like please don't come. Yeah, they were like they didn't want the attention because there's always like a long line. It's just family. It's family operating.

I wonder why they shut down then. COVID probably. Couldn't have been, bro. They would, I read their ad and it said they're transitioning into like doing more food than just pizza. So they're opening back up.

Okay. They're not shutting down. They're getting bigger. Because everything you guys are saying sounds like this would be the hottest place in Nashville. But it's not going to be pizza centric anymore. I think it's just going to be traditional Italian food again. That's just what their,

their Instagram posts said, like their last post. Okay. Pizza's fire, but Italian food for me is not. it. Really? I know. Is that crazy? That is crazy, man.

That wild? I know Italian food's heavy, so it's not always like a choice I try and go to. Yeah. Italian foods. It's like that. Really? Yeah, no, it's not for me. But anything else I'm as before we jump into the episode?

He gives a finals prediction. NBA finals prediction. Oh, he gave an NBA's final prediction? What was it? You got to listen. You got to tune in, Taylor. Come on. I thought you did on a different.

No, he did. What am I thinking of it? You're good, bro. You got to listen to the episode, though. We do have one thing, though, because the whole rich eyes and remember the video. Yeah. We can just hit out on lightly. Right behind your seat, there is a device that is a fog machine.

And it possesses a, not a big one, but a small motor. It's right behind your seat will. Oh, it's right there. Yep, I see it. Try and keep it level if you grab it because I feel like it's leaking. But Rich Eisen said that he changes. Listen to Jack. Because that video was fast.

You can. You can. Yeah, just to prove that it's on here. Because Rich Eisen has now said that he will come on the podcast. Ooh. If we just had any motor at all, that little device possesses a very small, but still a motor. Is that work? Does it work?

Yeah, you got to plug it in and stuff. So we don't have, it didn't have to be working. He said he could be anything motor. That's his, we got, isn't there a motor in this bus? There is a motor. We can do that. All right. We can do that shit.

We just need. We also got this. Yeah, we need to clip it so he can send it to Rich. He should hopefully be coming on the show soon. Well, Rich. Those tweets are going to still be sending off until the day he gets on here. It seems like Rich in the beginning really fucking dug his feet in the ground on what would make him come on this bus. And as we've gained a little more traction, it kind of seems like Rich has gone from doing us a favor to wanting to actually be on the bus and is willing to bend his own rules of how he's going to come on this bus.

I've said it once to say that thousand times. It's a huge Rich Eisen fan. Yeah. I think the interaction between Bustin and him has been incredible. Yeah, it was painful at first when he just wasn't referring to me in the podcast. Yeah. Like, I just weren't rich to see me type of thing. Yeah.

But I agree with you. Because when you first, when he talks about you first coming on and talking about Bust with the boys, I'm sure he thought, oh, like the haters, people are like, oh, the boys are doing a cute little podcast on the bus out of Nashville. He didn't know we were for real. I'm not going to make it, make anything of itself. Yeah, he didn't know. Now look at us.

Now you can play with us, play back and forth with us a little more on your own show because there's enough credibility behind it. Enough credibility. Yeah. And anybody wants to get on that. And he's an OG too. He's an OG, but when you've been in the game for this long, he'd kill it with the times.

We're hip or with it. Yeah. You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. He's been an OG tier three. Yeah. I think at this point we'll allow Rich to come on the pod.

And I'm happy we could do this for him. Do I do you? Are you sure we need to tread that way? Maybe that keeps him from coming on. I guess the treachery. No, because he wants. Here's why. Here's what.

I want him to go back. When I'm playing. Because you just did some animal right there. I know. You're right. And if you just give me, I, in my head, Rich is watching this video right now. And he's going, he's like this on his tape on his desk.

And he's looking at, he's watching on his screen during his TV. He's going, these guys. You know? And I just want him to smile with it. And you're right. I could have been that matter of the thing that set him over the edge. But I want him to enjoy. this. I'm just enjoying the banter.

You know, OG Michigan guy, dude. Hero. Stud, legend. Is he going to have a statue of Michigan one day, you think? He should. It should be him in a full sprint is what it should be. In a suit. How sweet would that be? God, that'd be cool.

But shall we get into it? You know, it'll be cool real quick if we did a spring football trophy game between Michigan and the trophy was rich. And they would do the blue, the May, That's funny, dude. The blue team and the May team, and it was just a small trophy of Rich running,

and whoever won, that team, their captain got to keep the rich trophy. That captain? The captain of whichever team. I'm sure they split it up, right? Yeah, probably. It's cool, right? Everyone lined up against the wall, two captains.

I got that guy. They fucking get the game going. Cool shit. That's a funny idea. Thanks, man. All right, let's get to this episode. JJ Reddick, subscribe, rate the boys, do all the fun stuff.

Enjoy the episode. How did you feel about that game of pay that just happened there? I didn't feel great about it. Yeah. If we're sweaty right now, we just played an intense game of pig. Intense game of pig. And JJ Reddick was the first man out.

Yeah. I think what obsessed me is number one, the L, for sure. Yeah. But I texted Will yesterday, and I said, Will, what do I need to know? What am I walking into tomorrow? And he laid out a show plan, some Duke stuff, some NBA stuff. There was no mention of mini basketball pig. Yeah.

And had I known that, I would have. I would have came more prepared. Right. I would have... My whole day would have been different. I'll put it that way. So you're blaming me? A little bit.

Well, here's... And let me have Will's side for a second. And I came in mid-game. Yeah. You guys probably got at least, I don't know, 10 to 15 warm-up shots. Well, why were... But usually when people play Pagan

and someone comes in the middle of the game, they usually have to take a letter. And you didn't have to take a letter. And you didn't have to come in mid-game. Well, that's because my driver took me to 12... I'm not going to say the address. You don't want to say the address. But he took me to...

a different address that started with a C, not a K. And then on the way over here, we got stuck behind a train. So, just shit happens, man. A lot of adversity when you're coming to and during the podcast on the bus. But just to argue with you a little bit more, when you and I were sitting in the corner over there and we were like kind of first meeting each other, you did whisper to me, I played this game with my kids. Exact hoop, exact ball every single day. Did you not say that? Was that, does that a comment you made?

I said exact hoop. Oh, the ball's bigger and harder to make it. You know there's like a men's basketball, women's basketball, youth basketball, and then there's like the mini basketballs. They're like three times the size of the ball you guys used. That's what I'm used to. Are you always aware when you walk into like a situation like that? Like they all expect me to win this game.

And when you do lose in that kind of fashion because it was pretty quick, is it something where you're just like, damn, these boys like really think they got me for real? I mean, if you guys really think you got me in basketball, I actually feel bad for you. What's that? Whoa, hang on. Let him finish. Let him finish. Nobody left.

No, but I'm just saying, if we, if we all of a sudden, like, did a Nerf football competition, we'd probably win that too. We're, like, throwing it at a target. Like, I would probably beat you guys. I wouldn't say to myself, like, I got you in football. I would just say, like, I won this specific random event. Okay. No, no, but it's pretty straightforward.

It'd be better. It'd be better and easier for us to say based on, because there was no, like, real basketball there. We're just better shooters than you are. again, like at this particular dress, outside of this particular bus, on that particular hoop, you guys got me today. And I, again, the competitive side of me is pissed off, and I wish we could move on past this.

Because now I'm getting angry. It's going to be a few minutes before we leave this. Trust me, we do not want to see first take, JJ Reddick. Really? Yeah. Have you not seen the way she's in a maker recently? I've seen a couple first takes that I've seen you lose your temper, but I don't think it's anything we can't handle.

I don't know if I've lost my temper. Well, I've been animated. You can tell because your vein will start coming out of your neck a little bit. You'll start leaning a little bit more on your seat. And the seat lean is a big giveaway. The producer said that to me the other day. Really? Because I know when you're about to get really engaged because I lean forward.

Yeah. I don't even realize I'm doing it. Yeah. I think I've got to be better at. I've realized this exact, this exact video. This is about Luca and Curry. No, this one was about Stephen A calling Jimmy Butler a permitter shooter. Yeah, and he's not a perimeter shooter.

Jimmy Butler's a fantastic player. He's, you know, a superstar. Who all are, who all are fantastic players? Well, Pat Beverly, press me on that the other day. That's what you got a fantastic player. What does that mean? And I'm like, I don't know. You got pretty, you got going there. There's like 40 or 50 fantastic players. The hierarchy of the NBA is really hard to figure out at any given time. But generally speaking, there's like five guys that are it. They are him. And you can win a championship with that player. And beyond that, you know, there's probably five more. more guys that on certain nights look like a top five player.

That's sort of like the top 10 or 15. Then it becomes very circumstantial for the next 20 to 40 guys. You know, and like Draymond, he's a great example of that because where do you sort of place him in the hierarchy of the NBA? If we're talking about someone who can go off the dribble and score on his own, like that's not Draymond, but we're talking about impact on winning. Well, shit, he's top 15, top 20. So it's hard to rank players.

I hate doing it. I hate, you know, they make me do it. Have you seen Jarmond Green try to play football? I haven't. Oh, there's a video fan. If you can pull that up. Is he a beast? Pull it up.

Jermon Green, Spring Football, Michigan State. What's like a good, like, for an average quarterback in the NFL? Actually, let's go, not NFL. Average, uh, FBS, college quarterback. How far can they throw football? on the fly. 50 yards, 80 yards, like, what's good? Oh, so that's a...

You'd think, like, 50 to 60, right? Yeah, 50 to 60 would probably be... Basically, I could be an average D1 quarterback, as which should. Well, that's assuming that what you just said means you can throw the ball 50 or 60 yards. On the run, accurately. On the run, I mean, I can just do it standstill.

You can throw a 50 or 60 yards standstill. Yeah. How long... Are you leaving us to this? You have to go somewhere to go, because we can go right to the field if you want. I mean, I'm going to... You didn't give me warm-up here.

We can go out to the field. After we finish, I have nothing to do the rest of the day. We'll play pig again, just you and me. I'll get this list. And you can warm up as long as you want. My ongoing joke is basically that if I had not quit baseball, I would have been a big league pitcher. You think so? I had a heater, man.

Were you a beast? I had a heater. I had a heater. I told you. Yeah. What were you going? Well, I quit in seventh grade. That's the thing.

My dad made me choose. But here's the thing. That is like the point where you have to choose. I was a beast then, and I hadn't hit my growth spurt yet. five, six. And then all the kids that I played against that were on the same level as me, they all either played you know, double A, AAA,

baseball, D1, ACC baseball. I feel like I could have had a, I could have had a chance. I mean, are you hitting, like, low 70s as a seventh grader? Yeah. Oh, easy. I mean, that's... I think that's... I feel like that's a gangster. Low 70s? Yeah, I feel like that's pretty tell. I feel like, mid-60s, you're like, holy shit. Right. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like, even 62. Yeah, if you go... If you go... If you go back to the dugout and you're in, like,

middle school, you know, hey, this kid can throw 72 miles an hour. You're like, fuck. I don't think I ever even heard of that. We would like to interrupt this incredible episode with JJ Reddick to let you know a couple things. One, we can give you an ad ad ad, but also make sure you guys are subscribing and rating five stars to our YouTube and a special audio. Will said it in the intro.

We have been absolutely living in that top five on Spotify and Apple. Yeah. And both those boys, right? With Apple's top five. We've been in the... We've been living in Spotify as top five. And literally, guys, it's been an amazing. thing. We've been going to two podcasts. You guys have been absolutely incredible. This ad read is

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I would just like to do in a mini shout-out, no free shout-out of the week for teaching me about the case that is like a lufa. Because I was trying to talk about, here's how you can do with the Duke Cannon. But little did I know that the case is alufa. Yeah. I've been using it nonstop. And every time I do, I'm like, man, I'm really glad that they put me on game. And if it wasn't me, it would have been somebody else. Duke Cannon is an incredible dude.

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clowns. Taylor, your listeners know this. This is more us getting to know each other. Where are you from again? I'm from Arizona. I grew up in Arizona. I grew up in Arizona. I grew up in Arizona. Went to Michigan. And I've been here since 2014. Okay. And then so, Bontare, Missouri. Is that a real? That's a real place.

Oh, I've been there. I've driven past there with Willie. thousand people. It's a real place. Tobacco, lead, cigarettes. For a long time of my life, I'm not a conspiracy there, but for a long time of my life, I was like, man, I'm not sure Missouri and Nebraska actually exists. Like, I didn't know if they were real places or if it was just like, we're going to put them on a map because I didn't know anybody.

You know, I'd never, I'm like, Nebraska. Because they don't leave. Nebraska people don't leave. It's weird. I'm pretty sure Missouri people don't leave either. You're talking about here I am right now. No, but you like a made it out, kid. Yeah, I mean.

You tell me all the time people from your town. like don't really leave that town. That's fair. Yeah, that's accurate. And like Nebraska, it's a similar, it's a similar conversation we've had. I feel like most people, if you're in a small town, though, not a lot of people really leave.

I think that's a great point. You know what I mean? I agree with that. Like cities I can see. Wait, what do you like, I don't know. What makes one of leave? We were an hour away from St. Louis when I was growing up. So there really wasn't no city.

There was like nothing around us. So you get used to the community aspect, I guess, of a small town. Like when you're growing up and when you're younger, like in my area, and say you're, like, good at sports, you, like, picture yourself being, like, a head coach of that high school team when you grow up. Or, like, a gym teacher. You know what I mean?

Yeah. I'm going to coach PE and I'm going to, or I'm going to teach PE and I'm going to coach football. What was a big city for you? St. Louis? St. Louis, yeah. Huge. When I went to Lincoln, Nebraska, I felt like it was big for me. And everybody else from, like, Texas and Cali and they, like, just shit on it.

Like, when I went to Orlando my rookie year, I thought, I thought Orlando was a city. It's clearly not a city. It's not a real city. Orlando's a weird place. Every time I go to Orlando, I'm like, I feel like everything's fake here because it's like the Disney, the Disney world. And it's like, oh, there's a castle right there.

Or like this extravagant billboard. It's so insane. But really it's just like fake. Nothing's real there. It seems like to me. I've only been there like three times. And all three of those times. I don't know.

I wouldn't call it like all of it fake. But it's a transient place. A lot of people in and out, a lot of tourists. Google transient for me. Well, he can, he can probably define it for you. That'll be the, that'll be the easiest word to translate that I'll use today. Oh, wow. Yeah.

What is short-lived? Okay. All right. Always changes, moves around. You know, people in and out. Yeah. Nobody's from, like, who's from Orlando? Who's like, oh, yeah, I grew up in Orlando and I stayed in Orlando.

It's the same thing here in Nashville. Like, the first six months, I lived in Nashville in 2014. I didn't meet one person from Nashville. I grew up in this area. at all. Everyone's transplants. Yeah. Come from New York, come from Florida, come from all over the place. What?

You're, you know, you're touching the local boys back there. Well, I mean, is that not true? Is there so many people from out of town? Yeah. I'm not trying to come out at the boys. I'm just trying to say, like, it's a transient place. Transient place, man. You know?

Read a book, boys. I mean, it's just a transient place. You know, are you stoked to be on bus with the boys? I am stoked. I mean, shit, man. Like, I got to be honest with y'all. the last eight or nine months has been kind of crazy for me because I always envisioned this year of bliss and quiet when I retired. And I was very hesitant to do ESPN and agree to do like a short one-year

deal. And I was still obligated to do the podcast for another year. So I was like, yeah, I'll, fuck it. I'll do, I'll do SPN. But getting into the media space has been way busier than I expected. and so I get asked to do podcasts probably three or four times a week. That's not exaggeration, like literally three or four times a week. So for me, when I got like the ask from your crew that was like, hey, could he come down to Nashville to do this? I was like, absolutely, absolutely. No hesitation.

I'm super excited to be here. What about bust with the boys? If there's three or four a week coming to you saying, hey, come on our podcast, what about busing was like, so was it the bus, was it will? It was mostly will. Yeah, it usually is. Great follow on Twitter. He's a great follow on Twitter. He's a great follow on Twitter.

Yes, he's hilarious. He had one of the- I need to body back somebody for JJ. Somebody was coming at him. Really? This guy named Chip. And then JJ gave like a good response to him. And it was one of those things where you kind of like read through the bullshit.

Like, hey, JJ, do you need me to ask him for a favor? Yeah. I was so scared to clap back at people on Twitter when I was a player. And then I was off of social media for like two years. It was an awesome time. Yeah. But then when we, when we started doing the podcast again, I was like, I kind of got to be on.

But in retirement, I have zero problem clapping back. And I used to think about Kevin Durant. I'd be like, why is Kevin Durant? Why is Kevin Durant like clapping back? He's the top five player. The guy's worth hundreds of millions of dollars. Like, why does he find the time? But the reality is when you have the app on your phone and you check on it, it's human nature.

You're going to look at the mentions and like, why not? It's very satisfying. Yeah. Very satisfying. Yeah. And it's a super... You put that guy in a body bag the other day with the... You put him to...

Put him in the crew of swaddled. Yeah. And that shit was so funny. It's so like... How's your swaddle game right now? My swatel game? Well, now we're kind of, you know, we're kind of cheating now because we got the Ollie swaddle because it's like Velcro.

That exists. Yes, that exists. And it is a very good swaddle. But before we got the Ali, my swaddle was actually getting pretty good. I was like in mid-season form before we got the Ollie. That's good. Yeah. My wife only let me do the swaddle.

She couldn't do it. Really? for both our kids, yeah, I was, and I went tight. I went super tight. You got to. You don't want those arms to move. Well, that hands starts poking out. When you first start, then that hand starts creeping,

they start scratching their face, the nails. There's nothing. It's a wild thing. The swaddle was something I took very seriously as a young father. You get competitive. Yes. Like when they're kind of tugging, you're like, all right, I'll fucking show you. You want to play games like that.

You know what you? You know what you, got to put them in there. And they don't really fight back too much makes you feel kind of bad after. But while you're in it, you definitely like think, oh, this baby's trying me. You know what I'm saying? 100%. I absolutely get it. But yeah, I was telling Taylor, like,

I was stoked that you were coming on because every white kid in America when you were playing college basketball, they want to be able to shoot a ball like JJ Reddick. And I was more fired up now that you're coming on the bus because I was telling Taylor, that you're legitimately one of the first OGs, like in the active athlete world that was doing a podcast.

So you did yours for like five years now. You did it with like Yahoo and Ringer before you had to do your own thing. but just the fact that you're podcasting in those five years. Like when we started bustling with the boys, like low key to give your flowers a little bit. Like you helped give me like confidence and like courage to like do busts with the boys, kind of like a Pat McAfee. And some of those guys who have kind of like pioneered the space. And so that's like, that's actually like a, that's a huge reason like why I was fired up.

Because I would look at old man in the three. And you're obviously in the basketball space. So I never really like, there's some out there you look and you're like, oh, they're kind of like competition and stuff. But you like you were, since you were. the basketball side of it. I was like, oh, let me see like what JJ's doing, like, how he does this stuff. You retired on your own platform. Like you own your voice. You control your narrative. You give a platform for athletes. And so that's like why I'm so fired up that you're on the bus.

I appreciate that. I never thought about that when I first started. Woj was launching a platform called The Vertical at Yahoo. And he asked me to write articles for him. And I got this like weird flashback to college being like stressed out and then having to stay up all night. till 6 a.m. to write a term paper. I was like, fuck that, which I don't want to do that. And then he came back six months later and he's like, me and Chris Mannix are doing a pod.

Do you want your own pod? And I legitimately had never listened to a podcast before. My wife had listened to Serial, the season one about the love triangle and the murder and stuff. I never. I was like, I listened to it and I was like, I don't know what to do.

Like, this is not what I'm going for. And, you know, when I started it, it was, I thought at the time, it was weird. I thought at the time it was like, I'll just get some reps in case I want to do media. But then I realized, that it, like, satisfied this curiosity in me. Like, because I go to dinners or, you know, I meet people and I'm, like, I'm genuinely

curious about people. I'm very interested in the human psyche. And it's given me this, like, amazing ability to, to, like, interact with people. And then on top of that, as you mentioned, there's nothing better as an athlete than, like, having your own platform and being able to control the narrative. And I've used it in, in some ways, probably positively and probably negative. lead to do that. But like I just, I enjoy having it. If there's anything that happens in my life, you know, it's as a player and even as a retired player, I can just go on the pod and talk about it.

When you were first starting your podcast, was there like that, that insecurity that like, oh man, once I start putting this out there while I'm playing, am I going to be like, my coach is going to think this way or my teammates going to think a certain way? Like, how does you deal with that situation? Yeah, I was fortunate because the clip, the clippers at the time, I get asked that question a lot. The truthful answer is anyone who was around me as a professional knew that my number one priority was basketball, even more so than my family. And I hate admitting that, but that's the truth. My entire day was structured around trying to be great at basketball.

So no one that I worked with would ever question whether or not I was making the podcast a bigger priority than basketball. I think for me, and it's still this way, I still get a little bit of performance. performance anxiety when I record a pod because like I just want anything I do. I want it to be good. This is why I'm so mad that I lost you guys in mini basketball. No, I'm serious. Like I just want it to be good. And so it took 20 to 30 episodes where I like legit wouldn't have to chug a beer before

I started just to calm myself down. Really? I would chug. I was living in LA. So it was the North Coast Pilsner. I would chug a North Coast Coast Coast. Coast Pilsner and just to call myself down like okay all right you're going to be all right and I used to fucking keep I mean age like 15 to 20 pages of notes on each person and I would like have every

question I have a flow chart I mean I overdid it and now it's like I record and I do my notes and I research and I work hard on it but generally speaking now it's just like it's natural it's flows I'm sure you guys have experienced the same thing 100 some episodes in it gets easier it's way easier Because you can't understand, like, the more you do episodes, like it took us about 20 episodes. Every once in a while, too, like, we'll do an episode with somebody, we'll call each other in the car. But that was like our go-to in the beginning was do an episode,

driving away, call each other like, hey, what do you think? And then we'd go back and forth on what we thought we both could have done better or like, hey, if I do this, maybe you say that or like, go off it this way. And it was a difficult trying time because you're just kind of in this world that you know nothing about. And then you don't know if people are really going to enjoy it. And then as you do it more, it kind of just becomes like, you know what your audience likes and wants. You know, like, and it's probably easier for me and Will because we're best friends.

So it's easy for us to come up here and because what we do in the podcast, we literally do outside. Right. So if it's just us too, it's never a difficult thing. Having a guest on is not a difficult thing for us because at the end of the day, we can bounce back off each other. You know, but it took us time and reps to learn that. Yeah, I think with Tommy, I think that was part of the reason. that I wanted Tommy as a co-host, which our last season of the ringer, he was trying to get me to do it. And I was like, I could, I'll be honestly, I don't really want to do it anymore.

So we did it for a few months together. And then COVID hit, pandemic hit, world shut down. We have both simultaneously discovered Zoom. And we're like, oh, we don't have to do these in person. We can do them, you know, over, uh, over the internet and put some content out during COVID. And then we, you know, Bill wouldn't let us own the podcast. So we were like, all right, we're going to leave. But I think having, like, that was my motivation for involving Tommy and just having somebody like as a backup, bounce ideas off to give me a pause during it.

It's helpful. It's helpful. By the way, even this year working for ESPN and kind of having a real sense of the landscape of sports media, like being in it and getting to understand it a little bit better. like we are in the first wave of athlete driven content the first wave and like you mentioned you're like i was a pioneer like i think all of us are i think all of us in this first inning first couple innings are pioneers in it i don't i don't think this is like a novelty something that's going to be a short-lived thing i think the future of sports media is going to be athlete driven not to say that traditional journalists won't have their place in it but honestly people are star for this like we have been

I agree 100% Andy and soda for the last 15 or 20 years and being able to peel back the curtain a little bit and offer someone a three-course meal with a leafy green salad. I think people eat it up, man. I really do.

I agree. I think not just that, but like the suit and tie like got to be super proper all the time. I think for us is we're kind of learning like people want to feel like, oh, these guys are just like me. Type of vibe.

Like we might play sports, but I mean, we're sitting here in shorts and T-shirts. Barstle does it better anybody else. It's one of the best parts about hanging out Barstool. One of the best parts. You mentioned Bill not letting you own the podcast. During that time, you said that was during the COVID. That was during the pandemic.

So our contract was running up. I think it ended like July 31st or August 1st. So it was basically two weeks into the bubble. And I told Bill in June, I was like, hey, you know, just so you know, like we are like going to other companies and being like, do you want to help us sell ads on our podcast? I want to be transparent with you that this is happening. So please make an offer.

And, you know, they made an offer. But they were the only company that was like, you can't own it. And this was right around the time of the ring or sale to Spotify. And so. And not to mention bars to a color daddy. Like there was a lot of IP conversations. Yeah, exactly. And so that was just, it wasn't even, it wasn't even a money issue.

honestly, honestly, the ringer offered us more guaranteed money than anyone else. But it was just like, I just wanted to own the IP. Even like simple stuff that you want to do down the line with, you know, conversations or episodes, it's like, well, if I don't have control of that, like, what good is it? You know? And so it really just became bottom line. Like, are you going to let me own it? And he said, no.

And I said, okay. No hard feelings. That's fine. We're moving on. Now, what was it called before? the JJ Ready podcast original. And he wouldn't let you keep that. Yeah, yeah. And they, so we lost, I mean.

It's the same thing at Barstool with McAfee. Yeah. There's a Pat McAfee show now that's Pat McAfee 2.0. Correct, for sure. But you just almost think like, man, it's. We lost, yeah, so we lost. Kind of crazy, right? We lost our subscriber base, obviously, our, our...

That's gotta be the biggest thing, right? And I had done it twice already because I lost it when I left the ringer, or Yahoo, I lost mine then. And so I've had to restart three times, basically. Well, what's huge, what I think speaks so good to your audience. It was very, like, intriguing when, like, learning about you when we were doing Bustin with the Boys. Was that, yeah, you guys amassed 100,000 subscribers on YouTube within six weeks. On our old man of three.

Yeah. I mean, that's the thing that we realized early on. It was like an epiphany moment. we had my last year with the ringer we did Zion in person in L.A. And it was his first long form interview. And we did Jimmy right before, literally two weeks before COVID and March 11th and the world shut down basically. We put that on YouTube.

And those are still the two most watched videos on the Ringer YouTube channel. So it's this epiphany moment. We're like, oh, not only is it audio, like podcast should be audio, they should be video. and then we should probably put stuff on social. And so like all of those things help just grow the brand and grow the audience. And I talk with people all the time that either want to do business with a podcast or, you know, our contract is up. And so, you know, we're talking about potentially, you know, doing deals with other people.

But it's like I don't care about anything else. I just want to grow the audience. I just want people to appreciate the content. When I have a guest on, I want people. I want people to walk away and be like, hey, I'm a fan of that guy now. Like, Pat Beverly is a great example of that. Like, he is a divisive player because of whatever, however you view his antics on the court. But the greatest compliment I can get is like, I had Pat Beverly on the show.

And people like, I used to hate Pat Beverly. I like him now. That to me is like, that's it. That's the juice for me. Yeah. Pretty impressive. What's up? You said, yeah.

And I was like, oh, Taylor's about that. Oh, no. What's the juice for you? On this? Yeah. The juice for me is basically coming on YouTube mostly and like seeing like subscribers, seeing people commenting and like just loving what we're doing.

It's still a crazy thought process to me that we're sitting here on mics on cameras and when you play a sport your whole life and you think, oh, this is all I'll really ever be good at. This is my one crack at the big whatever I'm supposed to do in this world. And then you go branch off and do something like, this and it's like, you don't know if it's going to work.

And all of a sudden, like, it's kind of blowing up in a way that you're like, I can't believe people like this because it's so natural and easy for us to do. So it's just fun. I do love it when people come on. They say, hey, I thought I didn't like this guy, but I do like this guy. But for me, it's just like, it's given me, I feel safer in my like own life after doing a podcast as far as like. I feel like we're doing a therapy session right now.

Yeah. It is a, it's actually something I think about all the time. There used to be a point in my life where I was like football. That's like the only main income I have. Like, yeah, I've made a lot of money in football. But like, what if this and what if that? Like, am I going to ever be able to, you know, am I going to have to go work a nine to five job or something like that?

And then once we started doing this and I started really making money, I was like, oh, like, I'm going to be okay. I'm going to be okay. Like, no matter what I do in my life, I'm going to be fine. And like this was like that step, that little piece for me to be like, okay, I'm going to be all right. Everything's going to work out. I knew going into my last year of my country.

with the Pelicans that it was going to be my last year. And the other side of that was so terrifying. It was so scary. And I had had a podcast. But I, again, it was like, is it was podcasting my future? I didn't know. And it almost feels weird to say podcasting is my future. You're like, is that even a thing?

Oh, yeah. It's a thing, though. I know, I know. But like, when you were like, you first got to start, you're like, is this really a deal? And like the last three, four years, I called my, when I come into it. my parents, actually my parents called me because they were worried about me. It was a New Year's morning. We had played a road game in Oklahoma City, I think the night before, got in late. I went to bed

at like 3 a.m. woke up at 8. I had a miss call for my mom, so I called my mom back. And she was like, you know, we're really worried about you. My family was in Brooklyn. And I was living on my own in New Orleans. And I was like super emotional because on Christmas morning, we were in Miami. And my, my wife had sent me a video of my now, yeah, five-year-old running down the stairs to the Christmas tree. And I basically checked out at that moment. Like I was like, I just want to be home. I don't want to do this. And my mom, I told my mom, was like, I would just want to get in my car and drive from New Orleans back to New York City.

I just want to be home. And she's like, why don't you? And I said, because I'm fucking terrified, mom. Like, I'm so scared of what the rest of my life is. like think about you guys play youth sports i'm guessing i started at seven years old i'm 37 now i retired at 37 30 years of my life i i'm not great at math but i would guarantee that's probably high 80 percent of my life 89 percent of my life has been wrapped up in sports my identity my ego structure everything is so ingrained in being a basketball player yeah and like letting go of that

letting go of that thing. Fuck, dude. It was terrifying. But I can say to your point about like feeling safe about it. Like, no, I can I can do other things. And maybe it's, maybe it's this for a while. Maybe it's something else. But I'm, it's a weird place to be, you know, basically a year out of retirement to be like,

okay, I'm going to be fine. My life's going to be okay. Everything's going to be all right. It's going to be all right. It's like getting to that other side of it. Because you're right. Like, it's that example. It's scary.

however many years of our life just doing one thing. And I feel like you're probably the same way. Like even when you're in it, you have interest. And every kind of player and athletes feels like they have something they're kind of lining themselves up for. They have a curiosity or I'm going to do this afterwards. Everybody feels confident. But when those, like for me it was like three years ago, I thought that could potentially have been my last year. And you're just like, I was getting into real estate.

I was, I was journaling the podcast, what it could look like. But I was just terrified. I'm like, man, I'm not playing a whole lot this year. Like this could be it. Like, I truly have to, I've always been the guy that felt comfortable and be like, oh, I'll figure something out. Like, I already have a few things going, blah, blah, blah. But I mean, I really have to figure out, like, what I enjoy because this could be coming faster than what I realize. And for me with the podcast stuff, like, it's, it's like, like, you were saying it, like, scratches that curiosity, that it's that you have.

Like, like, I love, like, talking to people. I feel like if I get to learn something about somebody, like, we've had on, like, Darren Wall or Max Crow, we've had on a lot of incredible people. But a couple of those stories stand out where Max is talking about his surprise. Darren Waller's talking about his sobriety and just going in depth and like giving athletes kind of a platform to talk about stuff. And like you said, like I'll have people call

and be like, yo, I didn't fuck with that guy, but that's really cool. Or it's just like, yo, I like this person, but man, I did not know he fucking went through that. And it's like really cool that you guys are able to like peel back layers because they feel comfortable sitting in front of you because we're all athletes. Right. Because a lot of stuff that you'll give a microphone or to reporters or something, you're either

in the locker room, you're back, up or somebody that you're competing with sitting next to you. Like guys are around there. You're not going to... Wals are up. Yeah, everything's up. You're not going to actually give reporters and talk about stuff. Not because you won't give it to the reporter.

One, you won't give it to the reporter, but also, like, the environment you're in, you're just not... Your guards up. Like you said, egos are going. And, like, when you're on something like this, I just feel like everybody feels more comfortable when they're talking with, like, athletes. Or there's more of, like, an unfiltered approach. Like, being for the boys, we tell everybody.

If there's something that you don't like, let us know, we'll take it off. Like, we've talking about jerk off stories that something. Somebody's one of theirs off. We kept ours on. But somewhere it's like, yo, just be yourself. We'll talk about that soon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, yo, just let it fly and be yourself.

And if you're driving that far in that. You're driving back and you want to take it off, we'll take it off. People ask me all the time what this podcast is about. I literally go, I think it's just like a bunch of guys in the locker room talking. Yeah. It's like the conversations you would have. But another thing to what you were saying is like, we talk about all the time, like how you have like these blinders on how you're so zoomed into the world that you live in.

And like not only, let's say, besides, the podcast like football. Like I go and play football and then I spend time in the offseason watching for agency. And then I send time watching the combine. Then I watch the draft and see who the guys I'm going to go again soon, what they're going to be like. And then shortly after that, the schedule comes out.

And then you're in OTAs. Then you have that six weeks break where you're just so focused and in like your fight camp going into camp. It's a year-round thing. And what this is allowed us to do or especially myself because I had super caught up in thinking like everyone is so focused and dialed in on Tennessee Titan football, when really, if I just like zoom out for a second, it's like, there's a, there's a bunch of people that are, but for the most part, like ain't nobody gives a shit what I'm doing, you know?

It's like I'll be in camp and it'll be the middle of August and it's right in the middle. The start is too far to see and the end's not close enough and you're just kind of like fucking in it. And you have a day off and you go drive home and you say, you know what? I'm going to go cruise down Broadway real quick and see what's going on. And you go down Broadway and you see every type of person walking up and down, drinking, having a good time, going, they don't give two shits of the Tennessee Times had practice today. Or we were watching film or who we're going to play.

And it allows you to be like, oh, like, I'm going to be, it's going to be all right. It kind of comes down to as like, oh, this isn't, is overwhelming consuming to everybody as you think it is. I experienced that at Duke because I felt. I feel like... I feel like they all wanted it there. I feel like I was in a fishbowl at Duke. And when I got on the other side of it, I was like, oh, you know, like Duke basketball, like it's well known, but it's not actually like that important.

But at the time, it felt like every single thing I did was live or die. It felt very intense to me. The actual guy's a question because I was... My best friend, he works in television, L.A., and I had lunch with him yesterday, and I was talking about... the other side of sports, you know, being retired and whatever. And he's like, you know, you used to, you used to say this shit all the time when, when you were a player, like, used to say you wanted to quit.

You used to say you wanted to retire. And I'm like, I'm curious if you guys in your career, even if it was a great season, that moment you're talking about when you're driving down Broadway and you're like, people are just having a normal good time. Like there's so many things that I felt like I missed out on, like Christmas being an example. I think I played on Christmas Day 12 times and 15 years. And I carried, I carried like a little bit of resentment about that.

Like, I don't know what it was. And there were moments where I was like, you know, I could do something. Why don't I do something else? I started thinking about that. Actually, it was right after I had my first kid. It was like, change my perspective about my time, basically. And I, I don't know. It's like I was definitely still into it.

And I was definitely still committed, even more so at the end of my career. I was fucking psycho. But like, I still. carried like a little bit of resentment about all the things that went into it that prevented me from doing other things. Did you guys, do you guys feel that at all? If I, like, me feeling it, it was probably, if anything, the last couple years. Like when I know I'm kind of like, I have a foot out the door. Like, I kind of know what I want to lean into and do when I'm done now with bustling with the boys and everything else. And so you think about it a lot more like

when I'm in the season. But I'd say like the first large, the first like seven years, I, I more so think like, I can't wait to do this when football's over with. Like, because it would be the same thing like with Thanksgiving. You don't get to do any of the holidays like during the season. Like Thanksgiving, Halloween, Christmas, all these things, new years. It would be more so like, I can't wait to do this like when I get done playing. Not complaining. Not complaining.

No, but it's because it's a great life. And I'm, I was, I never felt any sense of like in gratitude. I was always grateful. I was always, you know, I would still like even my 50th year, super frustrated. Like, dude, I'm fucking 36 and I'm in the NBA. Like, how fucking cool. is this. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, I loved it every day, but still,

there were, there were moments, there were moments. Everyone goes through the grass is greener. And the thing is, there's so many different lives you can live on this world. Yeah. And so everyone always daydreams to think about what if. I always, I remember being in college and like having to get my weight up because I came into college super underweight. And I remember thinking to myself, like, man, when I'm done playing

football, I'm going to be so, like, jacked and skinny. And like, I still to this day, I'm like, man, I can't, I can't wait to fucking lose 60 pounds. You know? And I can't, I can't, wait to do this and this. And there was, I mean, we talked about it. We talked about all the time, like, during the season last year, the season I was having, I had him over the house.

I was like, I'm going to retire. I'm done. Like, and you kind of, but that's when you're like so in it. And then you start to realize, like, hey, you're in the NFL. How cool is this regardless? Yeah. Like, it's just dope. You're living every kid's dream.

It's a professional athlete at, like, it's some position. We did it. We did it. Yeah, we've done it. Yeah, we've done it. We fucking did it. We fucking made it. We made it.

And it's just cool. It's a cool vibe. But yeah, there are, there's always something you want to do other than what you're doing at that moment. Yeah. Yeah. I think I've retired, what, the last three years? Yeah. Every year.

This is it. This is it. Because I've known Will. Every single year, he's been like, this is the last one. This is the last one. And now we're talking about year 10. You know? It's just crazy.

Do you think, like, I'm curious, too. Do you think there's a difference in basketball and football, like doing the media stuff and having personalities? But I think because I think it's like, it's wild that Dremon. has a podcast. I think it's awesome. But I'm like, damn, like, he's got some stones when I go do a podcast

like right after a game and talking about the game. Like, do you feel like there's a difference there? Because you obviously did the pod for, like, five years. Like, what's the sense, like, what's the sense,

like when you're around all the guys? Because when I went to Vegas last year, like, everybody kind of knew about the podcast. I know everybody liked it. So it was all good. But when I was in the building and seeing, like, guys work and appreciating kind of like,

damn, like, these dudes like fucking, they love, like, I love Ball, but I'm like, they love Ball, way more than the spot that I'm at in my career right now, to where you almost, you almost feel bad bringing up any of this stuff

because you don't want to seem like you're like not in it as much as they are. Yeah, again, I go back to that point, I don't, I go back to like, any teammate I've ever been around, like saw the dedication and work I put in. So I never sort of worried about that. On the basketball football side, I mean, that's probably part of a larger conversation, just about the,

empowerment that NBA players have right now, the player empowerment era that we're in the middle of right now, relative to the NFL. And I don't think the NFL has gotten to the level that the NBA has. And probably some of that is our guaranteed contracts. Yeah, the players run the league more. You know, again, it's... You get the right guys.

You can not predict. It's a lot more competitive now. It's a lot easier to predict wins and loss. And these boys on this team, like these teams are going to see each other in the finals. There's also just inherently, because of the way your cap works, there's, there's like more parody in the NFL. And because it's a two-way sport, like in the NBA, it's like if you're one of the five best players or 10 best players, like you fucking run it. You run it.

Some guys don't take advantage of that. Some guys do. But there's just more. I just believe inherently there's more power if you are LeBron James or. you're a Kauai Leonard or a Kevin Durant. You just carry more than even a great all-pro NFL player does. It's just the way the sport works.

Less guys, probably. When you say run it, you mean like they run practicing meetings and they say, we're fucking, this is what we're doing? There's input on everything. You have input on everything. I don't know if you guys. It's like Aaron Rogers or like Payton Manning. There's very few guys.

But I think every team in the end, all 30 teams, you could probably name five guys in the NFL, 10 guys maybe. They could name the best wide receiver in the NFL. And he's not having input on like who they should draft, where they should trade. Yes. Where in the NBA, the top two guys on pretty much every team.

I mean, I had that with the Clippers. I was like the fourth or fifth guy. You know, I would talk to Doc. I would talk to El Frank. I would talk to Steve Balmer. Like, I had that. You know, I had that with Philly when I went there. Like I wasn't even one of the best players.

and I just think that because of, I don't know if it's less guys or it's just like, you know, we're on the court the whole time, you know. In the NFL, you're playing offense or you're playing defense. And to a degree, too, it's like the NBA, a great player can impact the game more than a great NFL player. Because I don't want to make broad generalities, but in general, like in the NFL, like on a play, you have a specific task. in the NBA, it's a little more organic where a player's talent can sort of shine

in a bunch of different ways. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does make sense. The Manning's there in Rogers, the Tom Brady's like, if you play good offense, like running the ball and you can keep them off the field. Like, you can keep those guys off the field. Like those quarterbacks need the defense.

The special teams and literally everybody just as much as they feel like they can affect the game. Basketball, it seems like not knowing basketball, but like it seems like you have two or three dudes, you can take over and do whatever the fuck you want almost. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Pretty much.

Like when LeBron... As long as those dudes were like good in 2022 and not the last time they were good was like 2016 like the Lakers this year. Right. They built a team around guys that were good six years ago. Is that why it didn't, is that why that... The Bron is that man though? Yeah.

Yeah. He still is. I mean... Where would you rank him in the top 10 today? I mean, he's in the top 10. I don't know. Is he top five though? It's hard to judge based on this year.

just because of how bad that team was and how badly that roster was constructed. You know, to a degree, the Brooklyn Nets not as bad of a roster, but also equally bad because the NBA has changed and it's very recent. The NBA has changed. Like, I really believe you need homegrown talent. Like, you have to draft well. That's the inefficiency in the marketplace. You have to draft well.

You have to have homegrown talent. You can't buy championships anymore. because you need all the ancillary pieces. You can go get two or three great players that are super max or max players. You need really good players three through seven, three through eight. And if you're going to have two or three max guys, those guys have to be on rookie contracts or you have to be really good with finding bargain players and free agency.

But if you're, okay, so if you're the L.A. Rams, they went and they didn't do anything in the draft. And there's 53 guys on a roster in the NFL. How come you can't do that in the NBA anymore? Like it seems like it'd be way easier to go pay seven or eight guys and then have them be a super team. You saying that can't happen anymore. But the Rams just did that with way more guys. You know what I'm trying to say?

Yeah. I don't see what I'm saying. I'm not, again, I haven't put my GM hat on to be an NFL GM. Yeah. I have put it on to be an NBA GM a few times. And it's just the general way our cap works. So there's a there's a cap and then there's a luxury tax and there's a hard cap. an apron. There's a, you know, the difference between the luxury tax and the hard cap is like an apron.

So once you get into like two max players, then it's like, all right, we have 13 roster spots. We need to fill out with essentially the supermaxes are so high now, essentially like $40 million. So on average, you're going to pay guys $3 million a year, which is what the Lakers did this year. They signed, you know, Avery Bradley, Trevor Risa, DeAndre Jordan, like all these guys on minimum contracts. Well, if you're a free agent and you're trying to get paid and another team has, let's say the mid-level, which is $10 million a year, you're probably going to go take that versus $2.5.

You know what I mean? So it's just the nature of the salary cap. So unless you have those guys that you drafted and they're still on their rookie contract, and you're able to pay those players once they become free agents because you have their bird rights. But that's the challenge. Those are what rights? Bird rights.

Bird rights. Bird rights. Bird rights basically, if you're drafted by a team and then you're a free agent and that team is over the the salary, what is it? Salary. The salary cap? Yeah, salary cap. If you're over the salary cap, you can

resign them. Okay. They came in with Larry Bird. So like if when I signed with Philly on the one year deal, they didn't have my bird rights the following summer. So when LeBron didn't sign there, they signed me on another one year deal. Had I resigned there, they could have gone over the luxury tax because after two years, you have early bird rights. After three,

have full bird rights. And this is all because of Larry Bird. It's all because of Larry Bird. Do you care to explain that situation to me at all? Again, I'm not a complete basketball historian, but my general knowledge of the situation is that the salary cap came into place sometime in the 1980s.

And Larry Bird's rookie contract was over, and the Celtics wanted to resign him, but they couldn't go over the salary cap to resign him. So there was a rule put in place in the collective bargaining agreement that you could resign your own free agents to go over the salary.

cap as long as you had bird rights. All right. Yeah. That's a good explanation. That's a great explanation. Thank you. And for the Rams. Well, I'm not a historian, but here's exactly what you need to know.

And for the, uh, for the Rams question. I feel like they've been kind of cooking that team up for a couple years. Yeah. I mean, like each year they've kind of added a different place. And mind you, they drafted Aaron Donald. They drafted Aaron. Yeah. They've had it.

They had Aaron Donald. They realized like, okay, they're missing a QBPs. They were able to trade Matt Stafford. And they probably felt like, yeah, they got Stafford. They were close enough if they just needed, if they got like the OB. B.J and the Vaughn Mill and they probably sat there and they're like, hey, fuck these draft picks. Like, let's try to win the Super Bowl this year. I was finding it fascinating with the NFL, like how you guys can sign a contract.

And then like two years later, like a new contract happens. We're like, you know, we sign a contract. Like, we can't renegotiate our contract. If we're going to make, let's say a guy's going to make $20 million and a team wants to go sign another player, they're not going to go to that player and be like, hey, will you take 10 next year? You know, it's like, you know, it's just like guaranteed. Like, that's what you get. Yeah.

And then also like, it's a real issue. Harry beard is like, it's like, this guy's he's gonna make $37 million, but his cap hits 13. And it all, it really depends on, that shit to me. It depends on teams and how much like money they have. Yeah. Like if your,

if your owner has lots of money, and really the cap doesn't really matter. Right. Because Will could be making $10 million and his cap, it's going to be seven. Yeah. And we're going to say, all right, hey, well, we're going to give you $9 million in a signing bonus right now.

So now your cap hits one. And you're making a minimum this year. It's just a crazy concept. Yeah. It really doesn't matter. And we have a lot of tenders. we have a lot of like the tenders is wild the fifth year there's a fifth year option where if you're first round draft pick you it's a four year contract with an option for the team to pick up a fifth year option mind you you can get franchise tag twice too because you can literally play seven years on one deal basically yeah and if you're out playing your contract your rookie year where you're about to get paid they can put a fifth year option on you and the fifth year option is like you make an average of what the top 10 guys are making or something like that which is usually top three to four or you're going to four guys make a lot of money.

And there's a big, there's a big difference in the bottom. So you kind of average out at your position. At your position. And then you can get actually, uh, get another, I think you can put another option on the guy again. No, that's franchise tag. That's franchise tag. It's the average of the top three, right?

Yeah. The top three players. But yeah, you could essentially be on these one year, one year deals and they have your rights for like Taylor said like up to seven years if they actually wanted to. But rookies nowadays, like if you start outperforming your deal, like going into that fifth year, if like they try a fifth year option you, guys are getting a lot. You know, guys are holding out or saying that they won't play stuff like that. Guys will hold out.

And usually what teams do is they'll pick up your fifth year and then they'll negotiate as you're going into your fourth year where your fifth year doesn't really, it doesn't really matter anymore. But it just gives them more time just in case. I signed my second contract going into my fourth year. But they already picked up my fifth year option. They have to pick it up by what, your third year? By like May or something.

May or third year. Yeah, your rookie contract. It's a wild deal. It's a wild deal. It's crazy. When you're an NFL player and you guys are, we're all sitting here talking about money and stuff like that. And then we look at the NBA, it's like,

yo, it's fucking wild. How these guys kind of just run the show. It really just seems. I know. We sit back. It's like, Mother fuck. Like, these years are just making,

like, I think Derek Carr literally. He can't even play that money. Right, right. $10 million. Dude, Derek Carr signed his contract, not this most recent one,

but the one before that. And somebody tweeted him, it was like $120 million dollar contract or something like that. And he's like, hey, congratulations. You make as much as a, a six man in the NBA now. That's not true. Well, that someone says this shit like that.

And I was like, that's just fucking wild. That's not true. But the money's crazy. Have you been a non-starter and made a nice little baggie? My two-year deal with the Pelicans was nice. Yeah. I mean, I made like 13 and a half or something. A year and you weren't in the top five? And I wasn't a starter, yeah.

That's crazy. That's fucking wild. It's good for you. I'm thinking that's crazy. Like, I didn't play either. Give me that. That's crazy. If you're on a starter, you made $13 and a half million dollars.

It's different. It's different. I don't know how. from. How is it? What do you? My first year with the Pelicans,

I averaged 28 minutes a game and scored over 15 points and was second the league and three point percentage. Go off king. All right. Okay. Listen, a guy, a guy in the NFL who's not a starter might play 10 snaps a game.

Like, there's a difference. That's my point. There's a difference. So you're still getting production. You can add me. You're still getting a... You're still getting a...

You might not play a snap in the NFL. He's just like, just look at me, man. I didn't, I didn't say it. I didn't. 10 mil. What I'm saying, you're paid in the NBA based on production. And so you don't have to be a starter to produce. That's where the difference is.

That's true. And you guys have like way like less guys. We have less guys. Yeah. And again, it goes back. If you're generally speaking, you have like a max guy or a couple of max guys. You have a couple guys that get salary cap, which is what every time I was a free agent, I signed with cap space. I signed with to a team with cap space. Then you have like the exceptions. You have the mid level exception. Then if you're over the tax, you have the taxpayer mid level exception, which is about half of the mid-level exception. And then everything else is like minimum. What's minimum?

It just depends on years of service. So like if you're a 10-year guy, I think minimum is 2.7. Something like that. Nice, man. That's a nice little baggie. Ours is like one. 900. As a 10-year guy, I think it's one.

One for an NFL player is that's the minimum? So now you're on our side. You see him? Change the tune a little bit. I'm saying. Yeah. That's the same. After you've played like eight or nine, 10 years.

Mine this past year is. based on like 980 maybe? I think that's what it is. How many guys are minimum guys, though, that are like bawling, that are starting and producing, and I'm not saying they're like necessarily all pro players, but they're good, they're really good. You can grade out well in analytics.

I see, I think analytics is a, it's not the, not the move. I know about well. I know you have a bad taste about like analytics and the PFS thing. I just don't think it makes a whole, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Stowers, like you can do it for quarterbacks, maybe white receivers. You can do it to an extent, I feel like at every position. To an extent, but it doesn't talk the entire story. When people say numbers, I agree with you.

People say numbers of the entire story, I disagree with that whole, a wholeheartedly. And I love analytics in basketball. There's, my, the most beautiful, uh, Synergy that I've, you know, can witness in Synergy, by the way, is a name of an advanced stats company. The most beautiful synergy that I can see, like, when I analyze this stuff, is my eye is telling me something, and I'll hit up a couple people I use for advanced stats. Some of the stuff I check myself, but I'm not great on second spectrum. I don't really know how to operate it.

So I'll be like, hey, it feels like this team is running way more ISOs this series, and they don't run a lot of ISOs in the regular season. Can you look that up? And then it'll be like, oh, yeah, they're running 40% more ISOs during this series. than they do during the regular season. I'm like, oh, it matches up. Sometimes the eye test and the analytics, they match up.

Sometimes the analytics tell us stuff we can't see with our eyes, and sometimes the analytics lie to us with what we see with our eyes. Yeah. Like, Devin books are an example of this. He is, I think, third on, he was like third on the sons this year

and win shares, right? He's going to be first team all NBA. He was top five in MVP voting. Like, he was their best player this year. but because of how analytics grade players out, he didn't fare particularly well. Like, you're always going to, in the NBA, you're always going to need volume shot creators.

And he's great at that, and he does it at a fairly efficient level. And my eye can tell me that. But the analytics, they lie to me. They lie to me. They don't tell me he's as great as he is. Very well-spoken man. He is.

Kevin Booker? You are. Sharp, you're sharp. No, yeah, I don't know, Devin Booker. To answer your question about the minimum things. I feel like it probably happens more for, like, defensive guys than offensive.

Yeah. Because if you're, if you're like, on offense, I feel like when you're like, when you're having a year, like it's, it's easier to see. Yeah. Like defense could be harder because there's a lot of variables that you sometimes need to go to your way like as far as opportunity and everything else. So if you might see a minimum guy bawling on a minimum contract, I feel like it's probably like a vet that's on like a one-year deal, probably defensively.

So here's another question I have for you. I'm glad I have you guys in my podcast right now, but I have another question. for you. I'm curious about this. Seriously, I think about the NBA and like a guy who's a free agent who needs to put up numbers. Like in the NBA, it's a lot of it is like your points, your rebounds, your sis, field goal, percentage, all this stuff. Like, you need to put up numbers. And so there's a way for a guy to basically have good counting stats, earn a nice contract, but have literally no impact on winning, either because he's playing on a bad team. And, you know, or because of his role and he just, you know, he's able to just shoot the ball whenever he wants.

And I wonder if the NFL, if you're able to do that. Like if a guy's a free agent, like, can you hide behind statistics? Or is in the NFL, are you just exposed at all time if what you do doesn't impact winning? I think it's another one that goes for defense because you can hide behind statistics in a lot of ways if, because the guy, let's say a defense event, he can have a lot of sacks. You can look at him and be like, oh, that you had 12 sacks here. Holy shit. And then you go watch his film and he's,

He might not be beating guys one-on-one. The quarterback might be holding the ball really long, or he gets flushed out of the pocket the wrong way. It's an effort sack a lot of ways, a lot of ways, which is one of the arguments I would have had with, what's his name, who loves T.J. Watt. Oh, Jersey J. Jersey, Jerry.

Is T.J. Watts, an unbelievable defensive end. He deserves everything he's getting. But a lot of his sacks are effort sacks as well. Like, he beats dudes. Don't get me wrong. He fucking murders cats out there. Other statistics for that? Like how many times you beat the edge?

I'm sure there are. Yeah, yeah, that's, where PFF comes in a play. Pro Football Focus. The thing Willow was kind of alluding to with me was with PFF, they grade everybody every single day and they have like these numbers come out. And it's very difficult thing to do for my position because you don't, there's a thousand different ways to run one play. And based on how we run ours, it's different than Washington does or San Francisco does or, you know. And so when you go to grade it, you can't grade us all the same. And so you need to have

somebody that's literally in the building to know what to do. And that's where I kind of get off, like a little upset with numbers. Right. Because there's times. There's one. I go back to this, the task part of it. You could do your task, but someone through their bias because of how they think the task should be run, right?

Grades you a different way. Internally, the Titans could be like, oh, you did that perfectly. Right. And there was a point in 2016 where I was the grade of the number one tackle for the first nine weeks of the season. And I said the same thing then, too. It's just like, they don't really know what they're talking about when it comes to offensive. Limeon. Now with quarterbacks, I think running backs would be another difficult one to do. I think defenses would be pretty hard.

It depends. Like, with O. Lyman, you could see it, like, if you're moving the guy out of the gap. Like, you could be doing the task, but are you moving them to the sideline? Like, for me, as a backer, like, I could take an offensive lineman on in the hole. But if we're stagnant or I'm barely getting moved, even though I'm doing the right thing, like, I know my'm leveraging the right side to our, but all these guys don't know what the fuck they're talking about. I use the air gap so you keep a egg out. Right.

But if Dante Hightower takes on more of a thudder, Dante Hightar takes on somebody and puts the offensive lineman in the gap, you'd see why he'd get like a better grade because he's physically moving the guy more, which could play into it. What a lot of times do is spill. Yeah. It's so crazy because defense, like... Sometimes I feel the same way when you're talking about some of the basketball stuff.

I'm like, I kind of don't know what that means, but he makes that shit sound crazy. It's crazy, right? But yeah. Basketball's a crazy world. It would be more so defense where you can hide behind stats. Like, D.Bs who get a lot of picks, you have, like, you got a lot of. lot of picks. You made a lot of plays on the ball. You get a lot of sacks. He could be a bad run defender. Like maybe he's rushing to get a sack every damn play. That's a great point.

With D.Bs too, it's like if you get a lot of picks, that means they're throwing the ball on your side. Correct. Right. Yeah, you get a lot of picks. Or if you're a safety too, safety is to like Kevin Byard, he's on the Titans. He had a lot of interceptions this past year and he's just in the right place at the right time. Right. He can fool quarterbacks, that type of thing. But if you're a corner one-on-one, I draw Revis at one point when he was on Revis Island. It was like you don't even throw to that area. Like he just locks dudes down. The gray ones like they probably won't have a lot of stats because the ball's not thrown to him.

Right. You know how it is though. It all comes down. Who's the cornerback for the Dallas Cowboys? Go ahead. Will keep going. Stefan Diggs. No.

The corner. It is Diggs. Trevon Diggs. Trevon Diggs. He's a guy. I saw a stat. I don't know if this is true or not. He had the most interceptions in the NFL last year.

But he also had the most yards given up by any cornerback too. But he was all pro. He would play aggressively. You could beat him on a. double move because he's like looking to get a pick. He's trying to get them picking. He is a stud. But yeah, like the great ones.

But you know how it is. Like all those numbers, all that stuff comes down to like trying to gain leverage like in a negotiation. So some guys that does work out. You know, others, you know, might not. But it all comes down to probably the negotiation. Another thing is too, it's like supply and demand. Like a lot of guys are going to free agency and you'll be like he's not that good, but he gets broke off because this team needs.

There's, let's say there's, um, the markets down. The markets down. There's not many tackles. I missed out on 2016 free agency by a year. I was a free agent in 2017. I tried to get a player option for 16 after the 16 year. I didn't get it with my Clippers contract. And I missed out.

Like that summer was bonkers. That was the summer where, you know, Timothy Moss now got $64 million from the Lakers. Holy shit. Yeah, we're going to take a break from Old Man and three. We're going to get to bust with the boys right now. Yeah, let's go with that. We interrupt this episode to bring you guys revitalite. Shoutout Revitalite, no free shout-outs.

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Now back to the episode. Dude, I want to talk about, like, I know you've talked about it openly, but like your Duke days. Like, you were one of the most hated players in college basketball like history. Like, obviously Duke as well, but like it just in college basketball in general. There were times where you talked about quitting. And I've seen that you did, is it true that you've changed your number at times, like your cell phone number? Oh, my God. So, yeah.

I mean, my sophomore year, I've probably changed it 10 or 15 times. There were so many nights that year where. I don't know who was the culprit. Who from, it was somebody from Duke that had a friend at another school that would pass along my number. And, you know, it was UNC fans mostly and Maryland fans mostly. And back then, I had the Nokia, you know. And so, like, I don't know if you could do this maybe in like the upgraded model, my junior and senior year. But early on, like, you couldn't like the snake alarm and simultaneously have it on silent.

So I would just get calls all night long, like 30. 40 calls, you know, as soon as like the number shows up at a Maryland party or at a Maryland bar, like my shit's blowing up over and over and over again. So I, yeah, I had to deal with that. There were, you know, there were times that Maryland fans would call me. They would call me the Antichrist, which just like what? Again, this is it true? No, it's not.

Okay, I was wondering for that. No, but the-watch out, JP, you know what I'm saying? It goes back to why sort of I felt like, in a way we're all the main. character in our own story, right? We're all a little bit narcissistic, I think, inherently. A lot of ways. Yeah. But, you know, Duke felt like this, this, this fishbowl and I was like the main character. Everybody, everybody really hated me. And it was, it was tough to deal with. So yeah, my sophomore year, and I may have told this story with, with Dan and Eric on their pod, but my sophomore year, I called my sisters to campus. It was during the Christmas break. I told him the

I'm over from Raleigh and they came over. There's this chicken place and we grabbed a chicken sandwich. And I was like, I'm done. Like, I want to quit. And they were like, what do you mean? I was like, I just, I was like, I want to be a normal student. I want to go to class. I want to be a frat kid.

I think I probably said I wanted to write poetry. I think that probably came out of my mouth. When you're depressed, that is the move. It is the move. That is the move for sure. And then I didn't quit. Second semester, I went into what I would describe as a spiral. I mean, I was out every night. Nice before games. I would drink 25, 30 beers.

Nice before games? Yeah, show up the next day. How many beers? Oh, I counted. Yeah. Really? Yeah. Crush him like that. The marker on the wrist that I move. After the season, I, do you guys remember the OC? Please tell me you watch the OSC. Yeah, I remembered it, but I did not watch it. Yes, that was the show when I was in college. That was like, we would record it on VHS. We record it and like watch it later. That's why. It was a Thursday, and I was like, the OC's on. tonight. I was like, I'm going to see how many beers I can drink tonight. And I started at 8 o'clock when the O.C. came on. And I got to like 39 by the next morning. And it was just like, that was my second semester at Duke. I was just, I was out of control. And a little bit of it was immaturity and selfishness. A little bit of it was rebellion because I had my whole sporting life

since I was seven years old and watched Christian Leitner hit the shot to be Kentucky. I was like, I want to go to Duke. And it was like a dream come true. And then I get to Duke and I'm like, oh, everyone fucking hates my guts. Like this is not what I signed up for. Why did everyone hate you so much? Because I was a Duke. I mean, if I had gone to Florida or UVA, like it would have been fine.

I would just would have been a normal kid. You guys had that hate vibe, huh? They do. They do. And it's like the white villain at Duke. Like that was definitely part of it. I was next in line for that. Because we, I mean, we had, we had like 11 or 12 games my freshman year that we played at the beginning of the season.

It was like home games. And then we played like UCLA and Indianapolis. We played Ohio State and Greensboro for the Big Ten ACC Challenge. We'd have a road game until after the new year. And we go to Clemson. We come out for warmups in the entire student section is Channing shit. Two weeks later, we go to UVA, my home state. There's all these students.

I had really bad backney in college. And I had, there was all these kids wearing like makeshift white Duke four, Duke number four jerseys and they had painted like red dots on their shoulders. By the way, I thought it was hilarious too. I was, you know, I was very sensitive. Did you think it was funny? I did. Even though I was really sensitive about, you know, my shoulder acting.

I was like, man, that's fucking creative. Why didn't you go T-shirt under the jersey then if you were so, if you're insecure about it? It was a rule. We couldn't do it. I convinced him my sophomore year. I went into his office. I may have cried and I was just like, you got to let me wear a fucking shirt under my jersey.

Damn, you say you may have cried. When you say it may have cried, you 100% cried? I cried, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a real deal. Yeah. So the end of my sophomore year, we lost in the final four.

It was a low point for me. We lost to Yukon. We were up eight with like three and a half minutes to go. And they came back and I had a chance twice, actually, once to take the lead with like 10 seconds left. I got stripped. And then I had a chance with like five seconds left to hit a three to tie us. And I missed them both.

And I just, like that spiral that I was on went even deeper. And coach would like make me come in on Saturday mornings to his office and he would meet with me. And he told me during one of those meetings, he said, we didn't win a national championship because you weren't worthy to be a champion. It was like the meanest thing everyone's ever said to me. And it was true. It was true. But it was like so soul cutting. Right.

that sent me further down. So I then, my parents, because they knew I was having a tough time for Christmas, had given me a toy airplane. I'm like, what the fuck? It was a ticket, basically. They were like, wherever you want to go after the school year's out, you can go. So I'm like, all right, I was like, I want to go see my buddy, Duke soccer player. I want to go see my buddy in California.

So I planned this trip. We went to Davis, California. We went to the Bay. We went to Santa Barbara. We went to L.A. drove back up. well, by the time I got to the trip, my parents knew that I was in a really bad place. I had $7 in my checking account.

They're like, we're not going to give you any money for this trip. We'll let you still go on the trip. We're not going to give any money. I basically, like, bummed off people for those, like, 10 days I was out there. And I got back from the trip and I was supposed to finish an incomplete because I had not gone to class all semester either. So I was supposed to finish an incomplete. So I'm hanging out in my buddy's apartment for like two weeks.

and I would wake up at like 2 p.m. in the afternoon. I'd start chugging beers. I'd have a burrito, party through the night, wake up at 2 p.m. I'd do that for two straight weeks. No one knew where I was. I told my parents I was in summer school. I told Duke I was back home finishing my incomplete. One day I get a fucking rap, wrap, rap at noon on the door of the apartment.

And it's Coach Collins and Coach Wojo. So I walked downstairs. I've literally got, by the way, I have one outfit. I've got, it's an average, it's a blue, Abercrombie shirt and Abercrombie cargo It was the time It was the times. And I've got these

These flip-flops that I had bought at the Gap in San Francisco with my last $5 They were on sale and they're like they're like come outside So I'm like all right so I'm too I'm I'm 895 I'm 225 bro I'm fucking fatty I'm fat as

fuck I hadn't shaved In like three weeks my hair's like S AE frat boy hair You know what I mean? A little wavy, a little curly, right over the ears. They're like, you know, come outside. We'd get in the car. We drive all the way back to campus. Just give me a pause real quick. Where's your anxiety at when these dudes knock on the door?

10 out of 10. 10 out of 10. Which is debilitating. Dabilitating. There was bongs everywhere as well. Like it was a bad, it was a bad scene. Beer, beer cans everywhere. In a way, though, and in a way, I was like, finally.

Really? Yeah, someone came to get me. I was like, finally. And so they, we go to campus, we're getting ready to, this is a random part of the story, but we get, we get ready to turn on campus.

And Wojo looks in the rear of your community. He's like, nobody said a word, by the way, since come outside. Like, I just followed them into the car. We get to campus and he's like, so, what are you been doing?

And I was like, I don't know why I said this, but I was like, watching movies. I was like, all right. So they took me. up to Coach Kay's office. They dragged me through the, through the fifth floor. He's on the sixth floor. They dragged me through the fifth floor to embarrass me and shame me, which I love that they did that because Bojo and Collins are complete assholes and I love them to death. So they drag me through. I'm like looking like shit. And then we go up to coach's office. We had a lot like a long hour and a half meeting. And, you know, they basically, it was basically an ultimatum. It was like, dude, we're not going to kick you off the team. We're not going to kick you off camp, you know, at a school. But you need to get your shit together. And like, we're going to get you, you know, the help you need.

So, like, I started seeing a therapist, saw a therapist the rest of my time at Duke. That summer I saw a psychiatrist as well. They put me on a fucking hourly schedule that summer. And it was, dude, I swear to God, I still have the sheet. It is 8 a.m. wake up, 9 a.m. check in, 10 a.m. class. You know, 1 p.m. study hall. 2 p.m. court. 3 p.m. waits, 4 p.m. run. 5 p.m. pickup.

Damn. At 10 p.m. dinner, 8 p.m. You know, you're in your apartment. 10 p.m. lights out. I did that all summer. Would they check in your apartment to make sure the lights were out? It was funny because it was two weeks into summer school. So I didn't have, I had petition the dean to get back into summer school.

They let me back in. I took a class on the Civil War. And there's the start of my transformation as a student as well that summer. Yeah. I got basically straight days after that. But because it was so late, In the summer, they were like, we don't, like all your teammates, all the managers, everybody you know, they already have roommates. So there was this random dude.

I don't know his name. There's this random dude on central campus. They were like, there's a person that has an extra bedroom in the two bedroom apartment on central campus. You're going to live with this person. And he'd no affiliation to anyone I knew, any affiliation of the team. And I walked into the apartment. I was like, hey, man, I'm going through some shit. I would appreciate it.

I'm going to be friendly to you. but I appreciate it if you just let me be for the next like six weeks. And he's like, what a first impression? Yeah. Yeah. So what did he say to you? He's like, okay. All good.

No worries. And I would like see him like later on like my junior and senior year. And it was like a passing, you know, sort of like. Didn't know his name. No. He probably talks about you all the time. Oh, there's no question. He probably talks about you all the time, dude.

He probably talking about he was instrumental in JJ Reddick getting out of the horse. Let me tell you something about JJ Reddick. Yeah. When I met him, he was going through it. See what he's done? Yeah. See what he's done? That schedule.

that was life-changing. Yeah. Because that became the rest of my life. And I wouldn't have done what I did in the NBA or even done what I did at Duke. Had the length of career I had. I was, I mean, from that point out, I was a psycho. I was that absolute psycho. It was like diligent routine, my schedule.

That takes precedence over everything. I need to get my work done. I need to get my sleep. I need to eat right. I'm going to go after it like that over and over again. And I did that for the rest of my career. Oh, shit. That's an incredible deal.

Yeah, what do you think? Like discipline. Discipline's the number one thing you need for success is what you're saying. Well, I think obsession is. I agree with that. I think because even with like a creative, you don't necessarily need discipline. If you're super talented, I know guys in the NBA that aren't as disciplined as I was. I know guys that probably are more disciplined than I was. Like I, it's obsession.

It's like the true love. The stuff we were talking about earlier about like, fuck, man. I want to go have a beer on Broadway or fuck I want to go you know have Thanksgiving dinner with my family all those things like we have to be more obsessed with the other thing we have to be more obsessed with what we're doing and I always was I was always more obsessed with it and it's you know so it was like the obsession on one hand but then it was like learning how to be diligent learning how to have a routine you know I I developed this routine as a pro player it was like it was sick because my routines had routines.

And it was like to the minute on a game day, to the minute starting at 8 a.m. whenever I woke up, it was like to the minute. All right, it's 12, 13. I've got 17 minutes till I need to eat lunch. It's 115. I've got 15 minutes till I need to take my nap. I'm waking up at 4 p.m.

I'm calling the room service at 4.30. Like, it was just everything was to the minute. When you do stuff like that, though, does it ever feel like if something messes with that schedule? Like your kids are doing something, your wife does something. And you can argue with somebody and it fucks up your schedule where you're now off the minute. Yeah.

Does it, does it fuck up your game? Did it fuck up your situation? Because being that obsessive. It would fuck me up in the moment. There was one example I can think of where it really fucked me up in the game. But it would fuck me in the moment. I'll give you an example of that. My first game with the Pelicans were in Toronto.

And again, they don't know that I'm like this. Right. And so Jamel, McMill and Nate McMill and Suntlet, Nick McMill and son comes in the training room. And I've started my routine. 90 minutes on the clock, I'm in the training room. 65 minutes on the clock. I'm in the wait room. 52 minutes on the clock.

I'm on the court. 38 minutes. I'm finishing up my workout. I'm back in the locker room at 36 minutes. Like I'm starting that. First game. And he comes to the locker room and he's like, hey man, you're shooting it.

He said some time that was not my shooting time. And I fucking lost it on them. Really? Jamel and I are cool. But it was our first interaction that we had. And I was like, what the fuck? What kind of operation is this?

That's not my shooting time. I agree to this shooting time this morning. I told you motherfuckers. Like, then I'm like, okay, I got to go apologize like seven people right now. Yeah. But that was. After the game, you apologize. Like all that stuff.

The one time was I was in Indianapolis when I was with the Bucks and we were, it was a different hotel than we normally stayed at. And I ordered my room service and it never came. And I went, you know, I'm like, I'm running out of time now. I've got to go down. I could take my bags, bags down to the bus. So I went down. I go to the restaurant.

I'm like, hey, room service never came. They're like, whatever. They go get it. they gave it to me a minute before my bus time. So I'm eating like on the bus as I'm walking in the arena. And I was like two for 13 that night. And just couldn't, I couldn't focus on the game.

Was it because of the, because of the food? Because the food was bad. Like you're, yeah, what you think about the routine there? It fucked me up. It messed up my day.

Messed up your day. Here's it. So it was all about control for me. Yeah, no, I get that. Here's what I can control. I'm going to control this.

And like, you're now, you're now fucking with my control. The one thing I can, control is my routine. And now you're fucking with it. And I'm pissed. Yeah.

And it fucked up. Fucked you up. Two for 13. Yeah. See, I've tried to be like that before during games, especially on game day. But one thing I've realized for myself, when I do best when I have,

like, I don't try to have control over anything. As long as I'm like, oh, I just need to feel good before this game starts. I could show up four hours before the game starts. It show up two hours before the game starts. It does not matter to me anymore.

But at one point, I was like that where I have to like, wake up at this specific time, go get in the cold time. go from there, go get a coffee at that Starbucks. Then you go get to the coffee, you go right to the stadium. I used to be like that. But then one thing would happen, it would fuck me up.

And then I would tell myself after the game, like, oh, that's because you messed up your deal. Yeah, I got over that at Duke. By the end of my Duke time, I was like, my performance on the court is not because I made three out of four on the last spot of my routine and didn't make four out of four. Like, I just got over that part of it. I think it was more about just like, it was like, here's what I need to do to peak at 707 or 737 p.m. When that all goes up and it's tip, like here's what I need to do to peak at that time. So that was what it was about too.

Besides the control, it was like there was a reason that I did everything. It wasn't like, well, I did tie my shoes a certain way and put on my jersey in a certain order. But it wasn't about. A little sicious. It was whatever. But everybody's got a few? Everybody's got a few. You have a thing?

Do you have a suspicion? Yeah. Not that I'm like thinking of like, you know, I love a pregame latte. Yeah. But I wouldn't say it's like a superstition. Like if I miss it, I wouldn't like think a certain way. I mean. What if somebody said we don't have lattes?

We're just going to give you an espresso shot. I'm back. Oh, I'm good. You're not going to. I just wouldn't take it. I say I'm good. Really? So it's not about the caffeine.

No, no, no. It's not about the caffeine. It's just like the vibes going into the, the stadium. It's like about getting a latte. It's put into the cup holder. It's turning up ZZ Top, Sharp Dress Man, Sharp Dress Man, LaGrange, all the ZZ Top. Cinderella Man by M&M. A lot of old school bangers and like feeling good walking out of the latte. What? No, Cinderella Man. That's a bangor, right? You said ZZ Top three times and all of a sudden said Cinderella Man Eminem. I was like, oh, fuck. ZZ type, yeah, Sharp Dress Man, Lagrange. Yeah, like, Cinderella Man's

another one. Like if I'm feeling like I got to have like a comeback game or a get back on track game in my head, I'm going to Cinderella man when I'm walking inside because to me it's like, I'm Cinderella man. I'm the fucking underdog. All that kind of say. You know what I mean? We all telling ourselves our story. Yeah, yeah.

You're always telling yourself what you need to do. Yeah, that's kind of like, I guess. Is that because you listen to it one time before a game and you played well? And then you're like, okay, that's my song. Yeah, some of that stuff does. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like visualization, like running through a same reel in your head about like old plays that you've made just to like see yourself do it and feel this and feel that.

Yeah, it's like a kind of like a routine like that. that. And then if you have a baller game, you're like, yeah, I got to go back to that kind of routine. Yeah. But if it throws off, I'm not like thinking about. It's like that's the, I'm not talking about. I talk about peak, getting to the peak, like hitting the peak at 737. Yeah.

What are the things I need to do to get into a flow state? Because as an athlete, like, if you're not in the flow state, you're okay. Maybe you're shitty, but you're not like the best version of yourself. Right. You're in your own head a lot. Yes. It's also one of the most difficult things to achieve is the flow state. 100%.

Just be like nothing else matters. You're so present right now. thinking about anything else. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. One time in Tampa, it was like before the fourth preseason game. It was the first time I made the team outright. So I was in my second year.

Went through preseason, my anxiety's at 10 because I'm like, this is it. Like, I got to make the fucking team. Yeah. And I had, I had an ice cream before the game, the night before the game. Why? Made myself up, but ice cream, M&Ms, had some caramel, some fudge on that thing. Fuck. And the boy ball.

Like, the boy played well. I got to let the team and tackles that game. The boy. You had him, huh? Yeah, and so sometimes, like, that would be my reason for having, like, ice is that flow state? I literally think back to myself, I'm like, it puts me in, like, puts me in a good mood.

Obviously, some ice cream puts anybody in a good mood. But I'm thinking, like, if everybody's like, why you eat that a night before again? You just worry about yourself. You just worry about yourself. There are dudes. Everyone, I don't know every team you've been on, but the tie-ins have a Sunday station every night before a game.

You're like, why the fuck is it out there? Everybody does. It doesn't make sense to me. It's like, what do we do? doing here with this thing? 100% I feel you guys and I agree, but I had that one moment. We go back to the flow state thing. When you're in a flow state, it's like

the game goes by so fast and it's over. But there's other games where you're not like you're the opposite of flow state. Don't know what that is. Unflow state. And you remember everything. Like we played, Michigan was playing Notre Dame. It was the night game when we came back. It was like a hundred a minute 42 left in the game.

There's like five scores or whatever. That's one where Dinar threw it in the back of the end zone. Yeah. And we won it. Anti-Flow, thank you. And me and my girlfriend, who I was dating at the time, meeting the girl I was dating at the time, like I cheated on her or she cheated on, something happened, like two days before.

You know what happened. I cheated on her. There was like a description, but there was something that game, and all I could think about was trying to get her back. And I played the entire game. And I played, all right, but pretty good, decent.

But like, the whole game, I was not ever invested in that game. I was just thinking, like, how do I make it up to this girl? Was she at the game? Probably. It's $115,000. How can I tell? I know.

Sometimes you know where your girl sits and you feel like... No, see, I never knew anything like that. No, see, I never had that. Not until I got, not until I think the NFL where I knew like people were sitting. Yeah. And my dad would always sit in a certain spot and always kind of look up at him every once in a while. But my girl... Every game my dad ever came to, even youth basketball.

Yeah. I'd always like, find him. Find him? The flow state part is like... when you're not in that state, you're thinking about what just happened. So it's like that you're carrying something to the next play. Yeah.

And I would always be like, oh, shit, I had a turnover. Okay, that's like a tally. And then like, I'd be like, I made a shot.

Okay, now we're even. Oh, I missed a shot. You are preaching right now. Okay. I just had a good pass. That's a,

like, then all of a sudden, like, what are you playing? You're not actually in the game. You're like doing this tally in your head. Yeah. It's,

it was very, detrimental to the overall product that I was trying to put out on the core. There would be times where I'd be like so stressed out about games that I would do that on purpose. Right, but okay, all you have to do is just play well in this series. And you had played this year, but okay, that was a good play. I could have done better on that play, but like that won't be like a minus. I made that good play on that earlier series. Well, no, it's that you start playing the like a lot of times the way the grade is like minus zero plus.

Zero you did your job minus you did into your job plus you did something extra. There's something extra there. And so I like go and I have like a couple of, I have like zero. Heroes across the board, one minus and a plus, I'm like, oh, I'm up. And even like, a plus to me would be double what a minus was, you know, in your head. But you're like playing this game. So you can tell yourself, I played good. Any way to tell yourself, I did well.

What about the feeling of being in the arena, being on the field, on the court, whatever, and just knowing that you're shit. Like, knowing that you are having. September, what was the end this year? Game of your life. Oh, yeah. Unfortunately, we were all at. And you're like, you can't escape it and you feel like everybody knows that you're shit. Everybody knows you're terrible.

What game was that? That is the worst fucking feeling as an athlete. September 12th, 2021. So I tore my ACL in October of 2020. Insurance palsy? I'll hop the four. Right? So in my head, I'm like, comeback season.

I'm with the boys. All these guys the whole year of town. Like, hey, this would be a comeback here. I feel great. I feel amazing. And I wasn't feeling the best. I go into camp and I'm like, no matter what, this better not be the film I want to see right now.

Roll the tape. I'm like, I'm like, I have to start. I have to start. I go out to play. They announced the offense. I'm fucking waving crowds going wild. I gave up two sacks in that game. Got dusted.

Well, that's Chandler Jones getting five sacks. This dude, Chandler Jones, 55. He got five sacks in this game. I gave up two to him. This is me right here. Getting beat. It was like within the first three series, there's a, there's some, there's some, oh my God.

This is the next series. No chance. So stop it, stop it, stop it. So at this point, I've given up two sacks. It's the first fucking quarter still. And I'm like, I've never done that in my life. That's never happened to me ever in my entire life. Or in the first quarter of four,

I'm having a horrible game. Like, there's no way to come back from it. It's got, and just the rest of the game just got worse and worse and worse. I'd be sitting on the sideline. And, like, you just feel like everyone's looking at you. I went and got an IV because I was cramping. Thank God, that's what this sack is. You can go back.

This tag is, this is Kendall getting beat for a sack. I go back into the game. I play the Tennessee Titans my whole entire career. I go back into the game. And what do they say? The announcer, love the guy. His name is Matt. Did a real fucked up movie.

I was Tara Luana's back in the game. The whole stadium, not the whole stadium, but the stadium starts booing. And I'm just like, well, yeah, Will. I saw Will up there. Me and his wife were in the suite. Just fucking booing him. Yeah, it was tough.

Dude, it was the, the worst. The worst feeling in the entire world. As an offensive lineman, when you get a penalty, what's going through your brain? No care. Same thing. No. Hey, old man in the three. We're in the old man in the three podcast right now. He's pod and you up.

Well, yeah, okay, go ahead. You know what? You guys have the floor. You guys have a four. I was going to say, what's the worst moment? What's the worst? What's that situation for you? Game one. 2019 against the nets. I was some shit,

and they kept targeting me and isoing me, and I fouled out with like four minutes to go. What a blessing. Did you foul out? You're like, yeah,

I'm going to try and foul out. No, no, no, no. I was able to foul out of the Cardinals game. I would have fucking done it. Yeah. It is a little bit of blessing.

You know what I mean? Yeah. This is the great thing about basketball. You've other players that can produce. So, like, if you're having a shit game, sometimes they'll just be like, all right, we're going to relieve him of his duties, and we're going to go with the other guy.

You're saying getting benched? Yeah, getting benched. Yeah. It's like sometimes like, thank God. Thank God. But yeah, and then DeAngelo Russell waved me off the floor. He drew the sixth file. He waved me off the floor.

And as I'm walking off the floor, you know, I was playing in Philly. The whole Philly, you know, crowd is booing me. Yeah, which they're insane fans. Yeah. And like that was a low point for me. That was a low point. You know, the other part was like playing with Chris and I love Chris. But like he demands so much of his team.

teammates and there were games where like I would not play well and I would feel like this overwhelming sense that I let him down. You know, that I didn't, I didn't reach his level that night. And that, that probably hurts more than like getting booed by a crowd, right? Because it's, to me, it was always about like, am I accountable to my teammates? If I'm accountable to my teammates, like fuck everybody else. You know what I mean? So that problem, those, those moments probably were worse.

Yeah. They're the worst. It's the whole... 2000, I'd say 2016 Thanksgiving game versus the Dallas Cowboys. Like I've talked about before on here, but when I missed two tackles in a row on Ezekiel Elliott,

and not only that, but Dak would check at the line of scrimmage, and I knew, like, what the run plays were. He'd be like, he'd, like, step back and be like, whether it'd be, like, Pope or Giant, like, I would know what plays were coming and what they were checking. Coppity?

Because the TV copies, yeah. And I would know what the play is and tell people and fucking he broke a tackle from me. I like leave my feet diving off the diving board. And the second miss tackle, the first one was in my head. And I'm thinking, don't miss his tackle. And, you know, that usually never works out for you. Universe doesn't hear negatives. Yeah, and then they come.

There it is right there. Right fucking there, dude. And it was a big one. Go back. Go back. They drive all the way down. Play it again. I want him to hurt like I did earlier.

they drive all the way down and score and we get to the sideline and I'm sitting on the bench and that's a time for me when I... Oh, you really missed it. Yeah, I really missed it. Yeah, I mean, he had a hand on me too

and then he does the... Which, by the way, Ezekiel Elliott stole that from Donard Robinson. And then they score. And I go to the side line. Your effort did not look great right there. That's a minus. That's a minus.

Yeah, it looks like a minus right there. Yeah, we can go ahead and say that. And I'm sitting on the sideline and I'm wondering, I'm like, man, everybody, like, it's a Thanksgiving game. Everybody's watching the Cowboys play on Thanksgiving. Yep. And I saw an article. It was, like, the most televised, like, football game that year and shit.

And it's just, I'm sitting there thinking, like, well, I wonder what people are saying about me on Twitter. That's, to me, that was a moment when I knew social media and other stuff was consuming my mind more than, you know, forget the last play, move to the next one. It was more like, I can't miss this tackle because I'm on the big stage and everybody's going to fucking think I'm trash or know that I'm trash. and that game is one of those games you're like, man, just get me fucking home and off the field. It's a weird thing as a- It's a weird thing as an athlete. I don't know if you've ever felt this way

of feeling like you've made it. Like you're a starter in the NFL or you're a star in the NBA and you think to yourself, man, I hope I don't get exposed to everyone knows I don't belong here. There's a feeling. Imposter syndrome, yes. That's normal. That is?

Do you felt that? Oh, yeah, that's normal. Okay. Most, I think, most, well, it's years of therapy. Yeah, I love that. No, but it's, I think, most high achievers in anything. If you asked, I don't know what the percentage is, but it'd be a large percentage of actors, actresses, musicians, professors.

Like, unless you're a narcissist, like, it has, like, delusions of grandeur. Like, you really do think at times, like, oh, I'm going to be exposed. I'm going to be exposed as a fraud. That sucks. It almost be better to be a narcissist, honestly. It sounds like a nice deal. Like, you just don't know. I agree.

Do you feel that way? Like ignorance. Ignorance. I wish I was like super. I'm that dude. Everyone's like, no, you're not. You're like, you guys are haters. But it's just fucking you're a narcissist.

I got to become a narcissist, 22. I mean my shit. Narcissus Taylor. Yeah, let's go. Hey, I do want to ask about your therapy. Do you feel like the therapy stuff is where that started to help you make your shift mentally in basketball? Like, what did you learn from therapy about yourself?

that was holding you back? It's a great question. I think I learned, um, I learned who I was. I think I became more comfortable with who I was. And you guys ever take personality tests?

Yeah. With the aneogram or something like that? Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I've done, I did a bunch of college. I did him in the NBA. I took one recently. My wife would me take one recently.

And like 15, 20 years ago if I'd taken one, like on the introverted, extraverted scale, I would be like 95% introverted. And if I took one now, like I'd be like 55, 60% introverted. So I'm still introverted, but I like have gotten comfortable enough with who I am and myself and enough confidence in like the person, not the player, but the person, because I was confident as a person, I could navigate NBA locker rooms. I could be a great teammate. I could be liaison between the coach and a player. It helped me on the court.

I'm just like I think it gave me a sense of perspective about who I was and my value as a human being. Again, it's like I'm 19 and everybody's like, fuck you. You know, you drink your own pee. The best t-shirt I ever saw. I was at Maryland my sophomore year and these guys had these white t-shirts done and my picture was on the front. So I went a little closer to see what it said. And on the front it said, when I grew up, I want to name my kid, JJ Reddick. And so when I got close enough, they turned around so that I could see what was written on the back.

And it said, and beat him every day. Which is just fucking sad. You know, that's savage. Savage, right? So, like, again, I'm 19. I'm like, fuck, dude. You drink your own piss? No, I never have.

I never have. But it was a very clever thing. You had to try it. I think it was like becoming like just just confident like it's not it's I don't think it's egotistical to be like sure of yourself

you know what I mean you can still be sure of yourself and be self-aware enough to know when you're wrong know when you fucked up to know that it's not all about you like my dad that was the greatest piece of advice I've ever got in my life you'd tell me that every day as a kid I'd complain about something like

JJ it's not always about you not always about you that helped me, you know, as a, as a basketball player in a team sport, it helped me. Let me navigate everything. I think that's what it came down. That's the real benefit. Later on in life, you know, as I became confident in who I was, I mean, I still see a, I've seen a therapist that lives on the West Coast and comes into New York, like once a month

and I talk to him on the phone. But, you know, that more is like almost performance coaching. You know what I mean by that? Like, and he was the guy, along with my wife, really, you know, but he kind of helped me get that last 1% to retire. It was like 99% of the way there for like a year. It was such a hard thing to let go of. And so him and I like met a couple times. We did a bunch of these like time value proposition exercises and we worked through some things.

Why I want to play, why I don't want to play. And by the end of the second meeting, it was like, oh, dude, it's crystal clear. Like it's not even a, not even a question about whether or not. not I should retire. I should retire. Like it's it's time and I was very comfortable with doing it. So damn. Yeah. Do you guys, you guys don't, you guys aren't

in therapy, see therapists? Oh yeah, I see therapists every week. Yeah, absolutely. I first started doing couples therapy before we got married and then we like fell in love with the whole therapy aspect. Yeah. Like emotional intelligence, all that stuff. Like I'm like, I like love like looking into that stuff because I feel like your psyche.

It's like everything, right? Like losing control of yourself in a moment, like figuring out like why am I reacting to this or why am I getting upset or losing control or what am I scared of like being in therapy and actually talking about like it's like it's like you get the dead ends like when you're in conversations with friends or buddies or something else and you you don't nearly you don't nearly go as far as what you would in therapy like there's nowhere to go and you're in a safe place and then they ask those extra questions that actually get you talking about like the underlying thing that like breaks you and then you're in tears for whatever reason and then you come out

of it and you're like, you know, you start learning about yourself a lot more. So I'm glad that, I'm glad that this is a safe space for us. Yeah, this is a safe space. This is definitely a safe space. You work with, uh, what's the dude's name you work with? Armando. Armando. He's part of cheat code. And it's like supposed to do

a bunch of things. He does like, uh, sound waves and different songs and stuff like that. And you put those on. He talks you through stuff and it's pretty cool because you talk about what's what's bothering you in this moment. It's like a present feeling. Like, what's, what's the thing that's bothering me the most? And he'll be like, look forward, like, how do you feel when you look forward and think about it?

You're like, well, I feel this way. And then you look right and look left. And if you're really present, you can notice, like, when you look, whether it's right or left or middle, like some areas feel worse or better than others. So whatever's worse, he'll be like, all right, let's start there. Or sometimes we'll start what's better. And then you just work through. He's like, all right, now fix it out of a spot.

And then every 60 seconds, we're like, what are you thinking about right now? And then you start talking to him. And then at one point while you're talking, it'll be rambling. I'd be like, stop right there and go with that. And then you just kind of keep working through it. And I'd say majority of the times ends in tears. Really? Because you're just trying to figure out.

You're trying to figure out, you know, why do I, you do certain things so that other people approve of you when you can't just approve of yourself. Like, what is that from? From being a child or whatever? And like, how do you get to a point where you're the only one trying to prove it to yourself? And it's just, it's like you said, like the whole growth thing is it's super, it's, It's the most important thing.

It's the most important thing as a human to do. And we talk about reading. We're both trying to read more. And when I go to read, I'm like to look at a fiction book, like a book that's not real. It's not a self-help book. It's so hard for me to go and read that because I could go find something

that's going to help me like be a better person. You know? And so that's something definitely. And it's like you say it all the time. It's the most important thing. Like with whether it's sports, being a father, being a husband,

all that stuff. On the emotional intelligence, he's doing it again. No, I was not a question. It was a comment to Will's comment. Is that okay? That's all right. Okay, all right. Carry on.

Immediately we start talking, he's doing it again. No, I would say this is a little bit of a callback to what we were talking about earlier about will I ever be good at anything else? And I think what I realized at the end of my career and what I've realized over the last nine months is like when you develop that side of your personality and develop that side of your brain, you can fit anywhere. being able to like what we do what you guys have done for a long time what i did for 15 years and prior to that at duke and high school aAU all that stuff like what you do in a locker room

and being able to navigate that year in year out like that is building a skill set and and by building your emotional intelligence like you can fit anywhere you can do anything i really believe that yeah i'm not going to develop a rocket it's going to take us to mars yeah i'm not saying We have Elon for that. But there's other, like, that's like almost like a, like a skill set that is overlooked, I think. Yeah, I'd agree with you. Have you read a emotional intelligence 2.0? No, I haven't.

Where do you get the emotional intelligence thing from? The first time I heard it was actually, uh, uh, is now become a good friend of mind, David Solomon who now runs Golden Sacks. I met him when he was not running Golden Sacks. He was not the CEO. Okay, flex. Yeah, it's a little flex. No, but it was like the first time, it was the first time I'd ever heard the phrase.

I spoke at this. This was like in 2016. I spoke on this panel at this retreat that Goldman Sachs was having for like tech and media CEOs. I have no idea why I was invited. I really truly don't know. But I spoke on this panel with Maverick Carter and Casey Wasserman. And David and I spent some time together at the dinner that night.

And it was the first time that he like brought up. I was like, hey, you have, you've got emotional intelligence. You could, you know, you can work on Wall Street if you wanted. Like, oh, so then I like started reading about it. And I started thinking about like how it relates to my own life. And like it's, it goes back to like anything we do as an athlete. Like our routine, visualization, all that stuff. It's like it's like that constant flow state.

And so like being able to check in with yourself, what am I projecting on other people? What is that person projecting onto someone else? Like I'm constantly thinking about that. You know what I mean? That's why it's been so enjoyable for me to have you guys in my chair and and ask you these questions. It's been very special. It's been a very special time. We interrupt this fantastic episode to bring you another sponsor Whistle Pig Whiskeyback.

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Oh, we got some tier talk. You want to have some tier talk? We can hit some tear talk. Let's do some tier talk. Now, my question, so tier talk, you guys are getting familiar with tear talk,

everybody out there in the audience. It's something newer that we've done. But we have a tier system. We have our audience. There's tier ones out there, tier two's and tier threes. Now we bring it into a segment where we rate things. Most notably recently has been the burger thing. That's one out there a couple times where we rated in and out.

Which, by the way, what's your favorite fast food burger? I saw all that. My favorite fast food burger, man, it's definitely not in and out. Okay. Well, that's all we needed. Then the question's over. Then the question is now over. Like, it's fine.

It's not like. But you watch my thing and you're like, yeah, you see. No, I totally co-sign with you. I'm like, yeah, it's like, it's fine. It's fine. Fuck yeah, dude. This is great. I'm having a blast.

Okay, go ahead. Let's see what his favorite fast food burger is. I'm actually, I would probably say, what a burger? Because I lived in Austin, and that's probably, I think it's good. I don't, what a bird is a solid burger? Are we doing, like, is five guys fast food? Is that not fast food? That's a big question.

People are saying right now. Because there's no drive-through. There's no drive-through. Which I do, like, I understand. Five guys is more on the fast casual side, like Chipotle, basically. Oh, I didn't even think him there. Fast casual. It's the second time I've heard that.

Charles said it about Shake Shack. She's like, oh, Shake Shack, like, Shake, I think is awesome. She's like, but it's a little more fast casual because there's no drive. Yeah, it's not fast. Yeah, it's no drive-thru. And I'm like, the fuck's in me. You fancy. Yeah, yeah, you fancy.

You fancy. You think the number one burger is because I'm sure you've talked about it. Five guys. But that's not fast food. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so just drive-thrus. I bet you, I bet you Minnaut Burger makes it up there, doesn't it?

I was going to say shake shack, but shake shak. I mean, Hardee's. Wow. Okay, yeah, Carl's Jr. Hardys. Hardys is fire. What a burger is good. In and out is good.

But you think In and Out Burger is better than What a Burger? No. You know you just say that. I'm lying. I'm lying. In and Out is better than what a year. In and out would be your number two best fast burger. You go Carl Jr.

One. in and out too? I don't know, man. Once five guys is taking out for you, you kind of fall apart. In Shake Shack, because I think Shake Shack's good. Yeah, you kind of fall apart. You just a classy bitch, dude. You know what I'm saying?

Oh, that's funny as fuck. All right. So, so Tearsaw, go ahead. You rattled me. You rattled me. I'm not even thinking about that anymore. I'm trying to think about other fast food. Because we just found out that everything real has built himself on the last two weeks is not real anymore.

I think the spicy ketchup is overrated at What a Burger. Okay. Because Texas are big on that The whole thing for me was Coming from Missouri Like you'd be in the locker rooms And when you travel like a Texas game Or we go on the West Coast to play Arizona

And the guys who are on your team Or West Coast like oh we gotta go to N&A And dudes from Texas Immediate argument in the locker About what a burger in and out So I always look forward to going to these spots To try these both all these different burgers And now that I've had them a few different times each

I do think I wanted to like What a Burger more because, again, I more so, like, love to just argue against the West Coast people because they're so prideful about In-N-Out Burger. But I would say In-N-Out Burger is probably a better burger than What a Burger. You got to try Fat Burger, too. Well, that's not really a drive-through either.

Yeah. It's casual, man. We learn something. Yeah. But on this tier talk, we're going to be doing, should we do pizza toppings or pizzas? To where you can combine certain toppings. Well, then that's just a pizza.

But some people like just a pepperoni pizza or a cheese pizza or, like, whatever. We're not. We're not. We're not. toppings themselves. Yeah, that'd be difficult to do. I don't know where I'd stand on that. No, but...

I don't know where you stand. If I had to rank the number one topping... That's what I'm saying. Are we going to say, if Taylor says... You're going to show. I don't know how the tier talk works. We're still putting in water here. I think it's best pizza. I think best pizza. Yeah, whatever is your best pizza.

Your number one favorite pizza tiered. You know what? We'll do our three favorite pizzas, and then you guys will tear it for us. No, what do you mean? No. Because if we're doing tier talk, there's tier one, two, and three. Yeah. So if JJ says, my favorite pizza is X, and you say, my favorite pizza is Y, and I say,

my favorite pizza is Z, how are we going to tier that? We can't because we would all say that our pizza is number one. Right, but that's what we did with Bert, with the fast food burger. We go one, two, three. Like, we quietly let JJ have the floor, and he does this tier one through three. Yeah, but if you're just making a pizza, there's no, he's going to make three pizzas for us right now? I can make three. I mean, off the top of my head, I can go.

Let's go. I feel like everyone goes. Yeah, I can say three. pizzas? Okay. I'll figure out the way to say three pizzas. You can go last, Taylor. Yeah, you can go last. I'm always going last from now on. JJ, you have the floor. All right. I'm actually going to go. I'm going to go in order of how I want to eat these pizzas. Does that make sense? Well, I don't know.

I don't know. Explain a little bit more. So I, like if you go to a great pizza place, yeah, um, like Lucali and Brooklyn. Okay. I would, I would want to eat them in this order. Not the entire pizza. I'm not that gluttonous. But maybe a slice or two. of each. What I'm saying? Gluteness is one of the seven didly since. I've been glitinus of recently. I would start with two toppings that you guys don't actually have on this graphic here.

This is your number one. This is your number one pizza. I would say this is my number one pizza. Okay. Number one. Like, I just want like shallots and hot peppers. Shallots and hot peppers. Hey, let's just let them have the floor because I'm thinking.

Second pizza would be a what I call a twin special, my wife's favorite pizza, along with her twin. I'll go pepperoni, white onion, green pepper. And then for kind of like a dessert, I would go with ricotta, sausage, and maybe some sage. Hmm. I fucked you guys up tonight. Yeah, I'll tell you why. You did your chef special on us just now. So my man knows his pizzas.

Will you have the floor? My tier one. why you already laughing? Because I just feel like he just said some like artistic shit. You're going to go sausage. I mean, this is hard. My tier one is very hard because there's a couple of pieces I'm thinking about.

So start tier three. Well, either way, I've got to decide out of this tier one, that's what the hard part is. But I think if I had to order a pizza, I think I'm going to go. He texted me this last night. So he's had 24 hours. I thought about the entire.

I only thought about my one. I know exactly like tier one. I think I'm going to go like a sweet heat. Oh. Where you got pepperoni, jalapenos. I love onions, so you can just throw onions on them. That's not really part of it, but I do love onions. But you throw like a, you got the red pepper flakes,

but you also drizzle honey over top. You drizzle honey on Mike's hot honey? Yeah. Some Mike's hot honey. Yeah. I like that. My number two is Hawaiian. That's what battle for my number one.

I'm a big Hawaiian pizza guy. I believe in pineapples on pizza. I am pro pineapple on pizza. And my number three, um, big CPK guy. I love Supremes. I love meat lovers,

but I think if I had to order, I would go pepperoni and bacon for my tier three. Hmm. Taylor, take it from here, brother. My tier three is going to be very basic, extremely basic. It's going to be your, uh,

Neapolitan cheese pizza. I think you can't beat it. You got a little bit of garnish on there. You got your cheese, your sauce. I think it's fantastic with the fluffy crust. It's outstanding. That's my tier three. My tier two is also the Hawaiian pizza, but with a spice.

You got to throw banana peppers on there or jalapinos. I like a little spice. I have the four. And number one is going to be, I almost said yes when you said CPK, because I'm a barbecue chicken pizza guy. That's my number one. Barbecue sauce, chicken.

Every time. Really? A little onion on there. I think it's my favorite possible pizza I can make for myself. Barbecue chicken? Barbecue chicken. Now that we're done,

what the fuck was that, dude? Yeah, what did you say? What was your number one? shallots and what? Shallots and pepperonies? Shallots. Shallots on pizza. It's a cheat coat.

What's a shallot? A shallot? It's like a little onion, right? It's like in between like a red onion and garlic. Okay. I like garlic. Yeah. I like onions.

I mean, I like both those things. I like shallots. They cook a little bit. Shalot and what? Hot peppers. Hot peppers. Those aren't like terrible ingredients. I'm just thinking you're tier one.

You're like, hey, JJ, what do you want to eat? They got something with the shallots and hot peppers on it? Here's the fuck, man. I am not. I'm not a CPK hater. I think restaurants like CPK, Chili's, Tjee, Frizzlies, TGI Fridays, like, they have their place in America, and I respect them.

And I've ate a lot of meals at places like that. But you're better than them now. Question where you guys are eating pizza based on you guys saying Hawaiian pizza for both of you was number two. Fire. And a barbecue chicken pizza, number one? I don't really question that. I think you can't touch barbecue chicken pizza if you're the right barbecue sauce on it.

Brother, that's the one thing. Like, I mean, cheese to me, I was like, but everybody, some people like, like their cheese pizza. I don't want to sound like a coastal elite here. Yeah. But I'm going to sound like a coastal elite. Yeah, no, I get it.

Like, I live in New York. I live in Brooklyn. Brooklyn is the best pizza in the world. Like, the shit y'all are talking about is disgust. What do you mean the shit that we're talking about? So you would need a sweet heat. I think you reacted like, oh, that sounds pretty good. Yeah, you said that you actually did.

I think you said, that sounds nice. Sweet heat sounded nice. That was my tier one. Hawaiian pizza was. But a coastal elite pizza is fire, bro. Yeah, a coastal elite, you guys should just sit on the traditional ingredients and you guys just make the best pizza and that's it. that's how I think a coastal elite works.

So I think by you doing some special shit like shallots and hot peppers, does that make you a coastal leader just make you use your, you're just a little fluff. You're just a little fluff. That's what it sounds like to me. It's just what it sounds like. But I will agree on the barbecue chicken part. The barbecue chicken throws me off, bro.

I'm not here to argue that part. I've gone downhill within an out burger. I've seen what the people have done. I've seen what Will's tried to do to me. I think it's fucking ridiculous. I'm just honestly shameful of you guys to handle yourself the way you have. I think it's fucking ridiculous. I think barbecue chicken pizza is the best pizza.

Barbecue chicken pizza. No, they wouldn't eat barbecue chicken pizza. We wouldn't feed that to them. Y'all fucking up. We wouldn't feed that to the fucking up. You like a barbecue? My daughter, I told my daughter to mellow mushroom last Sunday. Melo mushrooms fire.

She wants to go back tonight. I probably go get one tonight. You know what I'm going to order? The barbecue chicken pizza. Nope. Hang on that way. I might go half and half now. Hawaiian is fucking good.

A little heat on it, right? Yeah, I'll put a little sweet heat on it. it? Absolutely. I did like the sweet heat vibe. You want to know where you get that pizza at? God, midnight oil. It's off of a 51st. No free shout. It's to midnight oil. But you go to midnight oil and you order a sweet heat pizza for midnight oil. Like that? Let them know the boy sent you. Okay. It might be a little something in there. Hey, I want you to know I sent me and I wanted this sweet heat pizza, please. It's phenomenal. Really? Are you here until tomorrow?

I leave tonight. What time? Ship. A little bit. Yeah, something like that. Yeah. Okay. Is this one of those show up at 730 things? Are we getting there a couple hours early? To my flight? Yeah.

No, I don't get, I don't go to the airport early. Who does that? I'm not a... But here's what we're trying to ask. No, you do you either? Driving there to fly out at 7.30? Are you getting there at an hour, hour and a half before?

Are we going through TSA or we're not going through TSA? Oh, I see what you're asking. I see what you're asking. You guys flew me down. Like, I'm, like, this trip was not on me. We didn't fly down. Oh, he's right. No, you know what he is right.

Barstil. Barcelona fleet. You're our first guest that we've flown down to be on the bus. We've just started kind of doing that. Oh, shit. You should have asked for some money. We probably would have gave it to you. Nah.

It's just my pleasure to be on the show, man. I love that. Your show. No, I don't, I don't, I don't, I'm not a, I'm not, I'm not that level, dude. You guys really don't like barbecue chicken pizza? I don't, like, we were talking about PJs. Are we not talking about, we're not talking about Pugets? Yes.

Gas prices are too, too extreme right now to be doing that. Like, I don't think barbecue pizza is trash. I just don't order it or I don't eat. Like, to me, it's like, what are we doing? See, I felt that way about Supreme. It's such a staple, but for me, I'm like all the extra shit on it. I had a bite of yours.

I said it was solid. You like barbecue chicken? What are you barbecue, cheeky chicks in the back there? The chicken baking ranch they had. It's number one by far, like, it's not even fucking close. That hopper narrow cream pie. Holy fuck, dude. Yes.

See, that's where it kind of throws me off when he starts talking about pizzas, because there's like, that's like a gourmet pizza, like five points is like Jack Browns in a lot of ways. burgers. Like, you can't, like, just go, like, if I were to say to you guys, oh, I like jalapinos, but the seeds carved out with cream cheese on it also, it just doesn't make any sense to be able to explain that pizza. You know what I'm saying?

I thought JJ was going to explain something like that, though. I think he did. I still, we need an interpreter to figure out what the fuck he said. Yeah, what was the... Yeah, you said a little bit of sage, and that's where I was like... You guys have had, like, a fried sage leaf before. Like, a little fried sage leaf on the sausage and ricotta pizza? That doesn't sound

like a little white sauce? Like a white sauce? Do I look like a guy that had fried sage on my pizza? In your life, you've never had fried sage. Like to me, that's a gourmet-south. How much money did you have when you grew up? Fried sage? She gets seven bucks and chicken up. It sounds so expensive.

It sounds expensive to me. Well, he lives in New York. It's a very expensive place. It is. It is. It sucks. Must be nice. But what was that piece?

Why don't you move down in Nashville? What's up? Sorry, go ahead, do what's question first? Well, again, what was the dryest? It's the same thing that you explained. What about it? it. What were the toppings? What else was ricotta, cheese, sausage, and fried sage. See, I think it's incredible combo. It sounds like a tasty pizza for sure, but if we're just

like ranking our pizzas, dude, then you're saying sage and ricotta and sausage. I mean, I actually, you said you should, you could. The best thing I heard from both of you was just a classic Neapolitan cheese pizza, honestly. I think that's. Well, that's flyer. I said garnish, too. Did you hear? I started to sound fancy like you. I said garnish. reacted to the sweetie. So basically what you just fucking said with all those fancy words is a sausage pizza. With a little bit of sage. K is a sausage pizza.

Those some of that green shit on there as much as you said to the person in the counter. But no. You like mellow mushroom though? I do. I don't want some underrated pizza. I went to my daughter to a birthday party last week. Chucky cheese. Don't fucking at me, dude.

That chucky cheese is low-key fire. Peter Harper pizza for those, you in the West? I haven't had a chunky cheese in a long time. so I'll take it. When and I went there? It was delicious. We didn't have any money growing up so we couldn't go to Chucka cheese.

That's crazy. That's crazy. We got the fried sage though, huh? I got the fried sage now. That's a wild. Sausage and fried sage. He just said sausage and cheese pizza. I know he did.

But he's also like the only thing you guys said good was the cheese pizza. And I'm thinking like, bro, stop. Anything like you didn't react when I said sweet heat. Yeah. You did say, oh, I like that. Because when you said that, Will, I almost said, hey, we don't react here.

We don't react in the tear talk. Do you know? I know. I was trying to keep it. That's why I was holding it in while he was going. When he said the sweet heat, I'm pictured, there's a, there's a place called Emily in Brooklyn. It makes a great burger as well as. No, it's, I'm just kidding. The water's better up there, man. Like, what do you want me to say? The water's better for pizza. Sure, sure, sure, sure. Why the bagels are so good. And bagels. But no, Emily has like a sweet heat pizza that basically is the description of what you described.

And they do little Mike's hot honey on the top. And you've had it? Yeah, I've had it. It's fire. It's a good pizza. You just don't, I think you don't agree with pineapple on pizza. No, it's not. I don't wake up, you know, any morning and be like, oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, thanks. I can't wait.

I want pizza tonight. I want to put pineapple on it. Like, that's just a weird thing to me. It's that mushrooms. Like, I eat everything, but mushrooms, I can't, I can't touch. I can't touch mushrooms. Not for me. Now, Italian truffles, I could.

You see my face? Do I think, did you? My whiplash, I'm turning, looking at you so fast. Dude, what was the second pizza you said? Because you kind of did a run on sentence for the last two. The twin special. Huh?

The twin special. It's just simple. Pepperoni, white onion, green pepper. Oh, we just got to start naming our shit cool, so it sounds better. Yeah, he said white onion. Like, when he said the way, when you, I'm talking that even out there.

When he was talking like that, I legit thought to myself, like, we picked the wrong category. Like, because we're about to say sausage and shit. You know, we're about to say basic shit. I believed in what I was about to say. I stay in tento down on it. Yeah, but he said twins pizza. He said ricotta. He used the word ricotta.

No, he did. Just say cheese. And what's crazy is he's been thinking about that since last night. Yeah. He's a homework guy. He's got 15 pages on both of us. I actually forgot. He knew exactly where I was from when he asked me.

The only reason I thought of all those pizzas, because when I saw the toppings, I was like, oh, shallot's done on there. Can I ask you a hard hit? I just went back to the catalog in my brain. Can I ask you a hard-hitting basketball question? Please. Who's the greatest fall time?

Man. Who's the goat? I like that question. And a second part question. Was Michael Jordan? narcissist? I think it's like it's one A, one B to me. I don't, I don't like that answer.

I want you to take a strong stance. Who's one A? Who's A? It's weird because Jordan is who I like grew up watching. But then LeBron is who I played against. And it's hard for me to like pick either one. Kyle Corver once said to me, he's like, you know, like MJ, I know the accomplishments are great.

but like MJ had to take two years off. So like the discredit LeBron gets for making eight straight finals, I think is kind of insane. So I'm, if I had to say it, I'm just going to say Jordan. That was your safe answer. Because if you would have said LeBron,

you'd got torched. No, Jordan. It's Jordan. Okay. LeBron's your two? Oh, yeah, yeah. What about Kobe? Great player.

Great player. Oh. You know, here's the other thing I've learned, especially in the last year. Is the, you guys know where a Stan is, right? Yes. Yes. Okay.

A little M&M callback. That was an Eminem thing. By the way, the song's incredible, too. Incredible song. What I've realized is that certain players' stands are fucking insane on social media. And I said a bunch of nice things about Steph Curry the other day. Mm-hmm. And, but the question was, who do you want in the clutch more, Luca or Steph?

I saw that video. And I said in 2022, I said, Luca. and the amount of hate that I got from the stuff stands. Do you think he deserved it a little bit? Greatest shooter of all time. Again, that wasn't the question, no. Game in the line, who do you want the ball in their hands? The question, yeah, exactly.

And I said, Luca. Who do you want with the ball? But why? Dyes. But if he, if my man can just pull up at the logo and splash that thing in no problem, then we don't need size. Oh, I sound like a basketball guy right now.

School him up. Luca is big. He's a dominant player. He can't shoot like Steph. Everyone knows that. No one can shoot like stuff. So why wouldn't you put, do you need a basket,

right? The whole concept of basketball is to put the ball on the hoop. The issue more is like how you go get the basket. You know what I mean? Like, so when I think about like much, I think I look at statistics because they track those. What about Janus?

The best player in the world right now. So you'd rather have Luca over him too? No, the question was, The question that I got asked was Luke or Steph. Well, I'm blessed one of the boys who like to throw in wrenches. You know what? There's like 10 guys I'd like to have in the clutch with the ball in their hands. All right, but go ahead.

Talk to me about Luca. Sorry, I didn't mean to throw the honest in there. When I think about, like, who do I want to have the ball in their hands in the clutch? It's guys like Luca. It's guys like LeBron who have size because they're going to create a shot, whether that's against the double team, whether that's one-on-one. going to create a shot. There's nothing wrong with saying Steph in that answer, by the way. And he's made a ton of clutch shots.

I was basing some of it on just this past season. Steph was 10 for 51 from three in the clutch this season. So like some of that is recency bias, which is another thing I've learned in the media. We all have. This is the moment. I like to describe Stephen A as that. It's another phrase that I seem to use.

Yeah. Yeah. It sucks. It sucks. I can't imagine, I can't imagine getting the point where like you have a show every day. And you're like, man, I got to fill. two fucking hours with the same take but in a different way. That's tough.

I like, I just pop in and pop out, you know? Yeah. Loved what you loved the clapping back you were doing on a Mad Dog. I think every young generation athlete and young generation person was fairly hype about that. I, the one thing I'll say, and this is not in, in sort of any direction towards Mad Dog, the one thing I say is like, I, and I'm sure you guys have seen this too,

I have witnessed and lived both in my own personal experience and my peers experience, a lot of tired narratives around athletes. And, you know, I remember going through the lockout and seeing articles written about athletes. And I'm like, why is everybody siding with the billionaire owners and not the athletes? it's there's something about athletes that people think we're entitled that people think our only value is to entertain you on a basketball court or a football field that we're not allowed to be intelligent and speak our mind or speak an opinion or to protest or whatever it is and it's so dehumanizing and so demeaning and a lot of some a lot of the

stuff that has gone viral on first take has been in a direct response to some of those narratives. And that's one example of it. But, you know, the other part of it, I don't really want to talk about. Sure. The undertone I don't want to talk about. But, you know, so much of that is like,

hold on a second, like the narrative is wrong. The narrative is tired. Let's start a new narrative. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Man, I do want to ask before you. I know we've been, we've had a long pod.

Yeah, we've got to play another game of pig. Is, it's, it's, Is coach, is Coach K a psycho? From the outside, when you watch a lot of situations unfold, it seems like a lot of things that he does seems very calculated. And, yeah, so I'm wondering it's like, is Coach K? Well, I guess, I guess when, because my version of a psych, my definition of a psycho, I also use the word sicko interchangeably about when I talk about people.

Gotcha. And like what's your sort of definition? I guess psycho is pretty hardcore. Over the top. Yeah, very over top. Really demonstrative on players. Hardcore makes you feel less than a lot of the time. Narcissistic.

Narcissistic. He's better than. Manipulative game that he can do with players. I mean, you played for him. There's been a lot of. I wouldn't. I don't. I think I think manipulative is the wrong word.

I think, the word you use about Calculave, I think that's probably more appropriate. He's definitely not a narcissist. He's definitely not a psycho in sort of the traditional sense. He is very intense and he's very demanding, but he's a truth teller. He is always a truth teller.

And, you know, my four years with him, I say this sincerely, my four years with him, I never saw him have a bad day. Like not at what, he's on. He's on. He's on every day. We get back from Virginia Tech on the bus at 3 a.m. We lose meeting. We're in there for an hour. We got practice the next day. He's on the bike at 6 a.m. He comes to practice, energized, ready to go, ready to coach. He's like that with every team he's ever been on. He's so invested and takes such ownership, you know, or did take such ownership of being a coach, being a Duke basketball coach. That program, he's phenomenal. I get to a degree when someone sees him motherfucking a ref or motherfucking a 19 year old. Like I get why people are like, oh, he's, he's a psycho.

He's a psycho. But like, I actually would say all the good shit that said about him is true and then some. Like he's, my dad is the greatest man that I've ever known. I didn't have to look far for a role model. Coach is the second. Like coach is phenomenal. And I,

I became friends with him my junior year. And we've been friends now for whatever that is, 17 years. He's, he's like such an important part of my life. And it has been for, you know, since 2000 when I committed. Like, he's just, he's the man. I love that, dude. After your little stint, your sophomore year, when you were brought back and put on a big schedule,

did you and him ever talk about it? Like, reminisce maybe a couple years ago about it. Like, hey, I was worried about you there for a second. He ever gave you the, hey, didn't know if you're, going to make it. We talked a little bit about it when he came on the podcast in the fall of 2020, but actually the moment we became friends and the moment that I felt like he wasn't just my coach was that following spring we lost in the Sweet 16 to Michigan State in Austin. War school. Yeah, terrible. And, you know, I had gone through all that my sophomore year.

And then I, you know, I got ACC player the year, ACC tournament tournament. an MVP, first-team all-American. I got one of the National Player of the Year awards. I got the Rupp Award. And we, yeah, let's give it up. My man's just going off right now. Context, context. Context matters. Yeah, no doubt.

Yeah. High point. Yeah. High point. I'm with it. So he called me into, we lose at the arena. We're all emotional. I'm crying. And we're getting on the bus. He's like, hey, come to my hotel room. We get back to the hotel. And we went in there, and we basically talked about that. We talked about that day in May. of 2004 when they dragged me into the office.

Talked about that summer, everything I'd done. We talked about the season. He talked about how proud he was of me. Like, I was a lifer at that point. Like, I was a coach K. Lyfer. He was a friend from that point on. Yeah. That is awesome.

And then one last thing, another one last thing, the gambling story of you almost coming to blows with one of your teammates. You said it was one of the closest times. You ever came to fighting a teammate. Yeah, I mean, I've gotten hit by teammates before. You've gotten punched by a teammate? Yeah, he did Turkleu used to hit me. He hit me a couple times.

A couple times. When I was like a rookie and then once again, my third year, he just liked to fuck with me. But I, like, I got into a little scrap with Carlos Arroyo. Me and Brian Cook got into it one time. Like, I never, like, came to blows with a guy in practice. But, like, I was trying to find a place in the league, like, in the league. So I was just scrappy in practice

And if you're a vet In his shoot around I guess one of the times Turkulu elbowed me in the In the eye and gave me a black eye He's just like I was playing too hard To post defense when we were We weren't walking through plays

We were running through plays And he just turns and he like noticed it was me And he caught me in the elbow Got me with the elbow The Justin Anderson story Basically Everybody in the NBA plays Bays Buhray Do you guys play Buree in the NFL?

Yeah Everybody plays Boree So there's a, there's a, in the players cabin, we use Delta Charter Flight. So in the players cabin, there's always a table. And then there's a bunch of other seats. So the table is for card games. And so playing Boo-ray and there had been some tension building between Justin Anderson and another teammate of mine. They were going back and forth.

They sat next to each other. So their actions directly affected the other player's actions, right? Whether or not the guy stayed in the game, whether or not a guy went for a boo or did, go for a boot like it all affected each other so they were kind of mouthing off and justin wanted a pretty big hand to not count because he felt like there was a discrepancy and how the that particular hand had been played and we had been drinking as well there had been some wine on the flight and so there was ameer johnson me jared bayliss justin anderson diagonal to me and then there wasn't a fifth seat so joel would sit on the arm rest

in the aisle. Joel M.V. would sit on the arm rest in the aisle. And it basically got to the point where their bullshit was sabotaging the general flow and enjoyment of the car. It was ruining the night. It was ruining the night. Thank you. Yeah. So I got a little vocal and then he got vocal back with me and then I said, you're a little bitch. And he said, what did you say? And I said, you're a little bit. You double down. I double down. And again, I'm not proud of this. Like I just said, I said, you're a bitch and he said what did you say i said you heard me i said you're a bitch and then he like stood up on the table and like you know almost swung on me joel luckily like grabbed them and then all these flight attendants they were on the plane like came i don't know

why they broke up the shuffle but they broke it up um had he swung on me like i'm sitting down he's standing up on a table you think you would win that fight six two 30 where i won that no i go down by the ankles dude give him a toss i would have lost dude those the the tables are like here. Like there's no leverage. I was stuck. I was stuck. I would have lost that fight.

You're a little bitch, dude. You gotta think if you're really gonna fight somebody, while he's taking the time to get up on that table, you gotta make a move. You know, if you're gonna win that fight. The flight attendants, they obviously fly with all the other teams. Word got around that that had happened.

So I had a bunch of texts from buddies around the league that like, I heard you guys got into a fight, you know, whatever. I was like, no, it was nothing. It was nothing. What happened after? You guys, cool? Yeah. Yeah.

He's fine. I have to ask him. Jay is my guy. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. We appreciate you for going on, man. Thanks, dude.

It's been an awesome podcast. It's been unreal. With your flight. Hey, uh, Jack, is he doing the green screen? Ooh. All right, cool. Then I appreciate it, man. Anything else?

Anybody got anything? You try to hit that pig one-on-one? What? Pig? Uh, no. I don't think so. I don't think so. He's scared.

Is anybody, better than you at the collegiate level of all-time shooter? Steph. Really? Yeah, Steph would have, I mean, there's other guys that have surpassed, like, the three-point thing, but Steph would have shattered it had he played one more year. He would have shattered it.

I think I was, I don't know who I was having this conversation with, but there was somebody the other day. Like, I think why, I think why it's like, oh, oh, it was Omar. Omar from, from, me in my house highlights, Omar. Omar Raja is now with SportsCenter. We were talking about this two days ago. And I was telling him, it's like part of the reason,

like, the Duke version of me is, you know, there's a legacy to that, I think, a little bit. Even though I didn't win a championship. Oh,

there definitely is. Yeah. There's a little bit of a legacy. If you were growing up in that area, you watch college basketball, but I think the reason is, number one, because I played for Duke and,

like, people hated Duke and there's divisiveness there. The second reason, though, is like, my draft class was the last draft class. before the one and done era. So I feel like my time in college basketball was like the time in college basketball

that we all knew and we all grew up knowing now with the one and done, it's just different. Like you don't have that attachment to a player. You don't make the legacy. Yeah, you're in and out. Most people don't even pay attention until March madness anyways. So now it's like...

Back then it was like you and Adam Morrison. Yes. Yeah. And then UNC was awesome when I was there. They won in 05. You know, we had some great games with them. And they were all upper classmen. Like all those guys. left, they were all my high school class and they all left after their junior year.

I decided to stay one more year. So I just think it was like part of, part of it was like just the era we were in. It wasn't necessarily that like I did anything that was that much special relative to other great college basketball players. I mean, you're pretty fucking good. I mean, I was, whatever. You know, you weren't decent.

11th overall pick. You were pretty solid. I was, that was good. 11th overall pick. Hey guys, it's us and the Jonas brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick.

And guess what? We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast. Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We get to ask other people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it.

But, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Hey, it's Ashanti Plummer from Fud Around and Find Out. This week, AZ Fud and I sat down with. Step and Curry. Step talks pressure, confidence, and what it really takes to stay great. There's different categories, I guess, on, like, conditioning, shooting drills where you try to simulate kind of games.

Look at her face. We have a love-hate relationship with those because you know you can get something out of it. You don't look forward to those days. Listen to butt around and find out on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What would you eat if you had to start over? Real simple. Poor man's, poor woman's food. Black beans, chicken, rice, plantains.

On the podcast Eating While Broke, I sit down with celebrities, entrepreneurs, and creators as they revisit the meals they once relied on and the moments that shaped their journey. Named Best Food Podcasts at the 2006 IHeart Podcast Awards, the full season is available to binge. Right now. Listen to Eating While Broke from the Black Effect Podcast Network

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