Bussin' With The Boys - Nick Saban Tried To TRADE Dolphins Legend Zach Thomas + Charles Haley LEVELED Joe Montana | Bussin'

Episode Date: September 22, 2026

Will and Taylor react to NFL Week 2 including the Caleb Williams cart drama and Eagles taking over Nashville. Pro Football Hall of Famer Zach Thomas hops on the John Madden bus and talks Jimmy Johnson, Nick Saban trying to trade him, almost flunking out of Texas Tech, and pays tribute to Junior Seau. Then five-time Super Bowl champion Charles Haley joins with wild stories about Ronnie Lott, calling Joe Montana Pinocchio, the Dallas trade, and opening up about mental health.   Timestamp Chapters:   0:00 Open 2:16 NFL Week 2 Injuries 11:56 Tennessee Texas Preview 16:52 Eagles Took Over Nashville 24:04 Is Bryce Young Cooked? 27:20 Caleb Williams Cart Drama 37:58 Blaney Nascar Fight 42:53 Ro Spicy Tier Talk 50:37 Zach Thomas Interview 1:05:42 Saban Tried Trading Zach 1:28:55 Jerry Jones Grandpa Story 1:44:04 Bud Light Question 1:45:57 Junior Seau Tribute 1:50:23 Run Over at Two Years Old 1:56:18 Charles Haley Interview 2:03:11 Ronnie Lott Changed Him 2:09:01 Montana Was Pinocchio 2:17:43 Charles Met Every President 2:23:12 Five Rings Never Worn 2:35:26 Bud Light QuestionSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

All right, we're good. Bushing with the boys. Hanging. Bessing with the boys. Bro. You know app is here, Ontario. It's safe, secure, and crystal clear with fast payouts and 24-7 local support. You can play over 3,000 games right here, including Hard Rock Bet Casino exclusives.

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It's called Don't Lie to Me. I'm Lexi Youanu. We're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart. And I'm Lisa Di Giulio, the old one, which means we have wildly different references, occasionally different opinions, and at this point in my 50s, I've lived it all. Now in my 30s, being the founder,

of new shoes, good taste is my business. Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Lacey Mosley, author, actor, stand-up comedian, creator, and host of Scam Goddess podcast, the True Crime Comedy Podcasts, all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. Each week, I bring on an amazing guest. Ooh, I scammed them. What? I can talk to you for an hour.

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Does the Pope dress up? He he winks on Halloween. right up next to the microphone. You can, I hear you can almost hear the eyelashes hit each other. You never seen Italy so quiet as when the Pope gets up to wink on Halloween. Listen to artists on artists on artists every Thursday on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Dude, welcome to another episode of Bustin with the Boys.

If you are tuned in right now, whether via YouTube, whether you're listening to us on Spotify, Apple, wherever you get your podcast, make sure you are subscribed to the boys. We have a big one today. You have a lot of things that happen in the NFL. We will get to all that stuff. Caleb Williams, by the way. We learned that he's strained his hamstring. We'll talk about all this stuff.

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on Fan Duel. I was just checking my notes before we started the show. Special boy turned 37 on this weekend. Special boy, shout out, Willie Boy. Shout out Willie Boy on that. Beeman birthday? It was last week before.

Beeman, a birthday week of four. Beeman, Virgos, Virgos. Yeah, yeah. And then also a lot of casualties taking place, casualties on week two of the NFL. What is going on? Did you see a, You show me the offensive alignment from the Patriots.

She's Jaden Daniels. Jaden Daniels, dislocated elbow. I had that in college. Horrendous. It's awful feeling. It's an awful feeling. And I just don't like, the Jaden Daniels,

you hate to bring up RG3 in the topic of that uniform. But a hell of a first year and then injuries take place. Hopefully Jaden can get through it, but right now, that's kind of what seems like is happening right now. It's tough right now in Washington.

You lose to the Cowboys. Start off O and 2. Start off O and 2. So the percentages, 16% chance to make the playoffs. Not great. After you start O-N-Tay. Good news, though, the Raiders.

Bro. Raiders are 2-0. Fired up for the Silver and Black. Fired up. Fired up for Kirkgo Thuggins. Duggins. But what in God's name has happened to the Chargers?

It seems like their quarterback has lost his powers. Bro. It feels like he's losing, he's missing a couple of stones right now. I don't know what has changed between last season and this season. Mike McDaniel's now the O.C.,

which we thought was going to unlock the whole offense. He was quoted saying, I can do so many more things with this quarterback. And they're not doing so many more things. We're doing a lot fewer things that are taking place. But it's just chargers, ma'am. What's going to happen? Chargers are in the dumps.

The chiefs are rolling right now Sunday night football? Chiefs Raiders? Just crazy. Just nuts. Chiefs Raiders. Yeah. I mean, bro, two weeks in. Like you laugh at that, but then you give a little double thought about it because it is kind of real.

Yeah. The Raider is going to be that team this year. Ashen Genties is going to get a little unlocked right now. Max Crosby, get a little safety at the end of the game to seal it. There was a stat too. It's like Kirk is, what, 38 years old? Yeah.

He's one of three quarterbacks to throw for three. What was it? Multiple touchdowns or three plus touchdowns in the first two weeks to start the year. He's in company with, I want to say it's Peyton Manning. I forget the third one, but great company to be in. Great company. If Peyton Manning's in the same area, you know, it's great company regardless of all.

was around. Kirk Cousins, gold jackets. Kirk Othuggins. I will say this, when we were at training camp tour with the Raiders and we sat down with the quarterback room. I've been around Kirk three times now.

It's the most relaxed and casual I've ever seen him. I think we was at Atlanta. It was fun. He had his kind of quirky personality. It was great to be around him. But this time it specifically felt relaxed, calm.

He kind of knows he's not the long-term fix for the Raiders. He seems like he was playing with house money in a lot of ways. And it's kind of showing week one and two how he's able to sling it over the yard where it's like you throw caution to the win and just got out there and dance a little bit in the rain. It seems like he's getting stuff done. Let it.

I kind of love it, dude. Love watching Kubiak's reactions after the game too. Like, you just, he's so uncomfortable with being happy. And like, he's uncomfortable showing emotion. Right. And you know, but like nothing makes him more happy than winning football games. Like he was one of the most all ball guys we've ever talked to. Bro.

And to see him in the locker room. going through it. You could tell him just trying to process it is, it's so funny. It's wholesome. Yeah. Raiders are doing a unique thing

this year too where every week they're putting out different captains. Max Crosby, shout out friend of the show, shout out friend of ours personally. He was asked about it. And you could tell,

I'm not going to put words his mouth. Max does not fuck with it. But I thought he handled himself gracefully sitting from his locker being like, you know, it's great, gives guys opportunity to be leaders in the room

and see what the pressure of being a captain and that's awesome. That's awesome. But you can see in his eyes. I didn't see it. You see in his eyes. I didn't see it either. How do you feel about that?

He's like, and you can just see him swallow whatever kind of anger he was possibly holding and delivered a perfect politically correct response in that. A perfect one. But before we start breaking down NFL, all the things that took place this weekend,

the saga of Clump and Jack McPherson that's taking place. Clump has become the enemy of the office in a lot of ways. We'll get to all that, but we do have tiered in a lot of ways. Yeah. J. Dev Nations says Joe Thomas is

calves are crazy in all caps. We did the Hall of Fame, which by the way, I think, exceeded all of our expectations. And just during that episode alone, I mean, I was staring at his calves the entire time. Not only beautiful, he's got Chambers calves, but how vascular they are too.

Yeah, incredible. He's a genetic specimen. And our guy, there was one up under that one or a response to that comment by Pretticius? Sure. Prentitious. Prettitious. Pretentious.

Dude, that man ran a 4-940 as a giant. L-M-A-O. L-M-A-O. Do he really want a 4-9? That's what the streets are saying. If the streets say it, I'm not even to look into it. I'm not even to look into it. A 4-9 is incredible.

And the story of him going fishing with his dad on draft day, ripping around a little bit. Like, who needs to go to Radio City musical, whatever it's called in New York and doing all that, he's like, I'm just going to go fishing with my old man. That's about as cool as it gets right there. I want some buffalo sperm. We got one here from Jeremy Evans, 89, 84.

Willie C showing that 10.5 GPA when Taylor was fumbling, reading the Bussin' on the rise comment. Dondo, too, corrected him 10.6 GPA. Boom. Willie C really flex on all of us being able to read my comment. That comment had Taylor in hell. Yes, there's clamorings right now

that my wife has diagnosed me as dyslexic. We'll see. We'll see if that's the case. That is a learning disability. That would be a learning disability, and that would be considered bullying. So it's just something for everyone to think about. You also can't see.

I can't see, I can't read. That's not good. That's not good for my future. You see language differently. I view the world differently, man. I'm an artist, all right? I'm a creative, man. I like to look around and just see the world, you know,

through a different lens. Is that okay, dude? That's why you love to travel. That's why I love to travel. It's I get around, dude. Absolutely. Oh, you know about my traveling. Yeah.

I got plans this year. Plan. Plans, lots of them. I got plans this year. I know this is actually, we're doing an intro for a show and people really don't know, but based on our conversation this weekend, Tylan's like, hey, are we going to pull the trigger on this? I'm like, I thought we already did. Pull the trigger, dude.

So I can just have to, I'm going to do those things. Lawans are not going on the trail. J.B., I don't say that to your confidence. Come on. Where are you heading? Let me check my notes. I'm headed after the Super Bowl, Costa Rica. Oh, there you go.

Nice. That's happening. That's happening. And then my family. our house will be done in Canada, so they'll be there the entire forever. I'm about to be a divorced father in a little bit where I always see my kids

like every other weekend. It's gonna be tough, but we'll make it through me and Talen. We're also going to Iceland, Norway, and one of the other ways. There's another, there's another Norwegian type of country. Uruguay? There's another way. Fair poll.

There's another way out there. There's another way, but the family, I think we're doing, yeah. Are you going to Iceland? Finland. Finland. Yeah.

Yeah. Finland, Norway, Iceland. Norway, Iceland. Get him out of the house. People are talking about orcas, about to dive on there in there with them boys. We start cooing around with them, see if they're really as safe as they say they are

outside of captivity. I will find out for myself this summer. So yeah, there's a lot of- I'm back in. Those are confirmed. I believe in both of those. I believe in it too, but you, like, I, like, I told my kids the other day, like, they're like,

hey, dad, can we? I was like, your mom runs this household. Like, I do, I am not the adult in the room. Like, Taylan, your mother is the adult. So, like, if Teelen pays for the tickets and gets all of it, I'm going. I'm there to carry bags on and off the plane, you know, and have as much fun as they'll let me have. Third trip will be tailored planned. No, JP, why do that?

Why do you keep moving the goalposting me? I'm trying to help you, but. Key of happiness in life is low expectations. I will say there's whispers taking place about Japan the following year. Japan. There we go. In April. Jared.

Mean tape. All you have to do, bro. clean take that's a main take is a little traveling agent oh tailon's got one yeah I was gonna say there's like 50 emails back and forth do I look at it I'm like oh my god and then dyslexic right so there's that's a callback it's hard for me sometimes it's hard for me fellas go ahead Jared be nasty just book it dog I know I'm go well I'm tail's going to tail's gonna do that hey this one comes from rich underscore LMN commenting for the algorithm where's Danny O's earring been

at dude That's a great question. He thinks he found a hack, but I feel like we need to go back and kind of check everything to make sure. Is that not doing it the way he said he would? Yeah, yeah, yeah. What was the hack he was trying to do? Just have it sitting up there?

No, he had to have it on every day. He was on TV and that includes like, and his brain, it's like just for get up and not for first take, not for the podcast he does before get up, not before the 15 other shows he does during the day. Like you need to have that ear on all day. And if it doesn't work, it resets for 30 days. He made up a rule. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like he found Greyer that wasn't. talked about I love that in a competitive environment however we if you're gonna be the man that talks about honor and what you do in the dark walks coming to light all the comments he loves to say I need to see this man with an earring on his head for 30 days straight that's what I that's I personally need to see so Danny I need to buy that is that all the tear talks that's all of our callbacks that's all the callbacks excuse me I messed up the callbacks and tear talks if people want to be on callbacks or tear talks how would they get on that all they have to do is comment on the soad

Use hashtag tier talk. There are a couple different options out there to be featured on Bustin with the boys. Beautiful. We talked about in our college football recap earlier, but Bustin and Paid on campus will be in Knoxville, Tennessee. This Friday, 2 to 3 Eastern time.

Come join the boys. Here's right now. How do we feel, Jack? How do we feel walking to that game? I know we kind of sprinkled it a little bit. Very excited. The real UT, we've already broke that down. You guys are factually the real UT.

There is no, like, we're fighting for that on Saturday. I thought differently before I walked on the bus. But how are you feeling? Very excited. First time in Knoxville this fall, going back to the alma mater. I said it again, pretty show, but I'll restate it. I'm fully bought in on the noon kickoff. I think that's our best plan of attack for a win, a night game,

even though Neeland provides that extra juice, especially at night game, to checkerboard. The athletics department, also heady play, has made the away section, a lot of it orange. For the Texas fans, their specific section is already orange, so they'll be wearing orange, so they will be actively participating in our checker board. Nice. Which is a heavy play. That's a hilarious. Yeah.

And again, you know, obviously on paper, Texas, number one team of the nation, they're most likely going to win this game. All the expectations on Texas and Arch Manning. And I feel great about that. So really at the end of the day, it's how do you game plan? We've got to have Faison Brandon who can get it through the air. That's what I think is going to win this game. And we saw Georgia Tech and, you know, this is the first.

real opponent though but again the boys are gonna be there busting and paid on campus Friday Saturday tailgate in for an awesome weekend so I'm stoked you said awesome weekend for not here's another callback phenomenal one by Sherman Young last week he said this will be the start that maybe the best fall day of the year and we're looking at the weather schedule right now 76 degrees partly cloudy and based off of what we had to deal with last week in Auburn shout out those fans for sticking around for a full hour and before the show as well this it was hell last week. We were in hell last week. Now we get 76 degrees, partly cloudy, smoky mountains.

Everything's going to go our way, at least on Friday, at least on Friday. I'm GBO. GBO. GBO. I'm excited who they used to the game day guest picker. Obviously, all eyes are pointing at Payne Manning, but there was also a video that came out of Peyton Manning asking who he'd be rooting for. And he said, family is most important to me over anything. But he doesn't say he's going for Texas, but he's like, that's what's most important to me. So that's honestly just honor. Honor amongst men, you know, Peyton Manning choosing to stand with his family over his alma mater.

But he has not chose Texas, but it will be interesting. How would you feel if he was the guest picker and he came up and he took Texas because of family? How would you as a Volus fan view Peyton Manning after that? I just don't see that happening. So I'm not even going to go down that road yet. We're living in the hypothetical world.

Yeah, I'm not even going to go down that road yet. But, you know, if the sheriff does it, Sheriff does what he wants to do. Sheriff makes the law. Makes the law. He lays it down too. He turns back on all of Tennessee. I don't think he's going to do that.

I think there's a rumor that Peyton Manning wants to lay low, and it seems like this is one of the reasons why he would want to lay low for the weekend. You know what the sheriff should do. Come on busing and paint on campus on Friday. That would be something. That would be something. They're saying a bunch of people are bringing signs to that show as well. So be able to look out for signs.

I heard the signs might double based on what happens on Wednesday in the locker room. This is what I've heard. All speculation. This is all speculation. Just keep your eye on the locker on Wednesday evening. Wednesday evening. And before we get into all the fun with the NFL, we have a segment, and this segment is sponsored by NFL Sunday ticket on YouTube TV.

Yes, sir. And then there's always, was it multi-view? Oh, it's multi-view. The multi-view is my favorite thing about Sundays, dude. And one thing I'm looking at right here is that 305 and 325 slate. All right, you got Minnesota at Tampa Bay. You have that one by itself for just a little bit. But right after that, Baltimore and the Dallas-Cats.

I'm out. Baltimore's got to come and figure it out. Two needing givebacks. And then you got Vegas, who's two and oh right now versus the Saints at the Saints. All things that fire me up, dude. This is the best part about the season, as we've seen week one and two, highs and lows. Now, where's the consistency going to come in? I love all three of those games for the multi-view.

Last game on my multi-view is I'm loving Arizona at San Francisco. Arizona's shown a little bit of life early in the season. San Francisco, George Kittles healthy. Fred Warner's healthy. What is going to become of this franchise? of this conference. I'm big onto this on my multi-view. And you can get NFL Sunday ticket

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Availability varies. With NFL Sunday ticket for out of games, for out-of-market games and YouTube TV for local and national games. YouTube TV is required. Terms and embargoes apply.

Device and content restrictions apply to more. Multi-View. Commercial use excluded. No refunds. Now let's dive in to our NFL football talk. Turning our attention back to the NFL, we talked about some injuries taking place. Don't know why the NFL is just a breeding ground for absolute disaster on individuals every single week, but individuals in this office have gone to war with each other. And I know Jackie, you've been on the mic quite a bit, but there was a game in Nashville, Tennessee 24 hours ago where the Philadelphia Eagles came to town. It seemed like.

a lot of Philadelphia fans were also there. And Tyones put up a competitive game. Seemed like a Philly home game. Yeah. Yeah, a lot of people. I mean, I've said this a lot and I'll continue to say it. But Nashville is the perfect three-day weekend town for an away fan base to come. You come.

You tear it up on Broadway, Friday, Saturday night. You go to a game, usually cheap tickets. You know, nobody wants to go to Minnesota to travel for a game. No stray in Minnesota. But, you know, just Nashville provides a good external, curricular type thing. Mall of America can only do so much for you. And especially Eagles, very big national fan base.

I knew that there was going to be a lot of Eagles fans. A lot of green. It's not a team where your colors are kind of complimentary and they kind of blend in that Kelly Green pops out. You really see it. And the Eagles fans, their credits showed up. They also were burning the Tennessee state flag. Wow.

In downtown Nashville. You did that? Which is very on par for the Eagles fan base. They're, you know, but yeah. You know, that's crazy. No, it's crazy. I mean, we have, I mean, we've said for a long time that the Eagles are the most rabid fan base

in all of the NFL. And I think they take pride in that, which... Oh, they do. Burning flags. That's hilarious. Week two, playing the Tennessee Titans, you're burning the state flag. Yeah, it was rough.

And the Eagles before yesterday, their record against Tennessee was, oh, and however many times they play it, they've never beaten Tennessee at Tennessee. I know. Corey Davis. Corey Davis. But yeah, again, after week one, week one was a disaster.

We don't have to go down that road. Jets look competitive. Jets look competitive this week, which makes that loss feel a little bit better. Quality loss. But, you know, we're not going on week one road. Week two, you come out with the expectation that it's going to be similar to week one. We're just trying to be competitive in any fashion. And they were.

The defense, well, Moni Hooker, great pickoff. Jalen Hertz, right in the red zone. First drive. But, dude, the defense could not get off the field. The Eagles had so much time of possession, and that is where we started getting killed. We won the turnover battle, lost the game. There's so many things you can point out. I'm going to just be positive and say, this is a good step forward from where we were week one.

Cam Ward looks sufficient enough, but still has things to improve on. There was no turnovers. He had two rushing TDs, but he's got to get the ball out more. we need to feed Aleke O'Manor more he only had two catches for like 69 yards and that insane hurdle which then went to Tajay Spears to set up a first in goal

where then Jalen Carter, Sacks, Cam Ward and then we go run, run and then take the field goal where it's like, you got to go for that and go for the touchdown and the Eagles, I think, had zero timeouts, drive down the field with a minute, 50 seconds, and we know the way it ended. It's tough.

Every week we're just here regurgitating the same fucking shit but there's positives the positive is we get a sad bike we get sad bike boy games yeah you get sad bike rides I don't know

you guys are competitive in the fourth quarter yeah play calling was a little shaky at the end of that game I don't know why we're running the ball twice I'm not sure why we're doing the rollout I think Cam Ward looks real pretty when he's faking the hand off and being real cool about it but Carter on the edge it's not a game you want to be in

no Latham's got to seal that up a little bit better overall, we've said since the beginning of the season, we're not going to evaluate the Titans on wins and losses this year. We're going to evaluate them how competitive they were in the fourth quarter. And you have a Super Bowl caliber roster that just came into National Tennessee, and you guys were competitive in the fourth quarter. Chance to win the game with a stop. I will say two things that Tennessee Titans fans should remain optimistic about.

One, the AFC South is still wide open. They're one in seven. The Jags have the only win currently. So the division is not, you know, it's anyone's game right now. It's anyone's game. The second one is in that fourth quarter, that was the first time I have heard Titans fans be loud in years there. And that is what I'm holding on to is that feeling that it's like, oh wait, it can be fun to be here on Sundays. And that was, I legitimately heard a Let's Go Titans chant that was echoing through the stadium.

Granted, the Eagles fans are dominating the cheering. it was so loud for them but at the end of the day we lost congratulations Jeremy Clump you were at the full game though so you know about all this Oh wait

Clump huge Eagles fan Him and his wife This is a family affair Yeah Jay J.J got a photo with Big Don Clum's wife is a bigger Eagles fan I believe Oh yeah Than Clump She actually gets mad at Will

when he trashes Jalen Hertz and the Eagles I don't trash Jalen Hertz and the Eagles You say what's real in your mind Yeah You say you were truth And that's what's important. But what Jack is referring to is we did leave at halftime with my two-month-old baby.

It was the hottest game in Tennessee Titans history, they were saying. Except week one was hotter, though. As someone who was there, and I'm not trying to like dog that. It was hotter week one. It was a hot day yesterday. And you do have a newborn. Newborn. Jack would have kept that two-month-old.

Oh, hell yeah. And it's under my seat, you know, getting some shade. This is probably going to come back to get me. I shouldn't even say this. But one of the main reasons we did leave is we had like the club level where you can go inside, but there were so many. That's where they have AC, by the. the way.

Where they have AC. There were so many Eagles fans to the point of we couldn't even move with our kids. It was like not even enjoyable for our kids. And people were like running into my wife with a baby. We're like, ah, this isn't even worth it. So we went home. It was really hot. 157 on the field.

Yeah, that's pretty crazy. You heard Nick Siriani after he ran off the field celebrating like they won the Super Bowl that he needed an IV after the game. And he didn't even playing it. So, yeah. I think what Jack said is, yeah, it was a good game. It's week two for the Eagles, so next week I don't even know if I'll be thinking about this game, but it is a, it's one they had to win. The Titans played great. I'm more disappointed with

with how the Eagles look defensively in the fourth quarter, but Jalen Hertz, 15 career game-winning drives now. He just wins. He's a winner. People doubt him. He threw the pick late in the game, which he got hit by Jeffrey Simmons. It wasn't even a bad throw, but that's, it's all good. But yeah, it was just started. He finished it. That was a funny quote. I think Jalen Hertz practiced that in the mirror all week, which was awesome to see. Yeah.

But yeah, respect to Big Jeff going up there and... Big Jeff's great. And giving him credit. I do have one stat, though. I do you think, I mean, Jeff kind of... He could have just gone to the locker. He didn't have to address it.

I know, but when Jalen Hurst did check him, I was like, Jeff, you're not going to... Because Jeff is that dude. Jeff's the leader in the locker room now, though. He's not that young guy who can just beep head button. That feels like growth to me. Maturity. That is growth.

I have one question. Do you guys think Bryce Young, you guys believe in Bryce Young as a quarterback in the NFL? I'm not going to play this game with you. What about Troy Aikman? Oh, Troy Aikman, go. So worst 19 games starts ever

by a quarterback draft of number one overall. Bryce Young at 2 and 17. And then Cam Ward and Troy Aikman, 3 and 16. So that's to say, Cam Ward obviously has his flaws. But if they build around him, he could turn it around and be Troy Aikman. You never know.

And I think, that's nice, Jack. And I think Bryce Young. Everyone's really uncomfortable. Everyone's got their guns loaded and they want to point in that club. You might not like Bryce Young. I think Bryce Young is a damn good quarterback in the NFL. So it could be turned around.

People jumping off the ship on Cam Ward. Paynex started 3 and 13. I heard a lot of Titans fans as I was walking around. They were not too happy with Cam Ward at the start of the game. I think he had like six yards passing in the first quarter. And I heard a lot of people jumping ship. I wouldn't jump ship yet on Cam Ward. Give him some time.

That is nice to hear, Jack. How'd they make you feel? What do you say? I was kind of tuned out. No, I'm kidding. I'm not an off-cam ward. You know. One year two guy that's bowling, Tyler Shook.

Yo. Taking down the Ravens. Yeah. Shuck at the Saints, they're ripping around a little bit. Ravens, that's just peak week two of the NFL. Team comes out. They look great. You think one thing about them,

and they go and shut them up the next week. It is perfect. I know we're shooting this on a Monday, but Giants and Rams. It is the perfect game for the Rams to put up 80 points right now on a Giants team that six and then you see how the the Broncos performed in week one and then they beat the Jaguars at home yeah yeah it's it's uh I'm interested to see what the Saints are up to man because Tampa they don't they're not

looking great no bro Bryce young yeah he's gotten better but they have their flaws and who's the other one of the Falcons the Falcons the Falcons are dead the QBR rating for the Falcons quarterbacks are like 38 or 36 And if you spike the ball every single play, you're 38. Yeah. So if they were to just... You got Drake London arguing with the crowd. It's tough out there.

It is tough. Was that, I didn't dive into that. There's been, was that to the quarterbacks he was yelling at or something? You never see who he was yelling at, but like, for you think, I feel like if he was arguing with a fan, his, like, sight line would have been up more. It kind of looked like directly. I think the report was a teammate, which is, like, it was crazy. I think it was definitely a team.

I didn't see the crowd. clip. So Drake London is losing his mind on somebody. He just seen him going off. He's like, I will fuck you up. Mouth it. I will fuck you up. Multiple times. Damn. Yeah. You can't have it. Did you guys see what Gronk said about the Falcons too?

No, what did he say? He just basically said like it's such a waste of talent. Dude, they have so much talent on the team. Their team is on paper good, but they're so ass. Dude, and you sit there and it's like, you got to talk about Jake London, Bejohn Robinson, but how about Jake Matthews? Who's just out there, year 12? still fucking doing it and he's a part of a team that he knows has zero hope and we're not even

past September. Just crazy. They have some injuries on defense but I feel like they got some good young defenders too. Their corners, they got some linebackers. Yeah, it feels weird. It's weird. How about the Caleb Williams injury? I thought he died. I sat there. Caleb Williams. Strain his hand. Surely he is out for four to six weeks, right? He's got to be done. He's a He's done for the C, that's what took place. Well, he should be, based on what happened on the field, he should be getting surgery any minute. Yeah.

We're lucky to see if he makes it through surgery. I mean, the tears, all that stuff, and what was the diagnosis? What did we figure out it was? I think Shifty he has posted or Tom Pellissarro. Can we pull that up just to make sure we don't say anything? He's not, he's not out of the question for next Monday. Really?

Yeah. I think he just straighted his hand straight. He's got a Wolverine blood. He's like Sam Levitt, dude. Because everybody, like I had a little thing, Like, you can't get carded off for a hamstring injury. And everybody's like, oh, Willie C. taking shots at Caleb Williams. I'm like, buddy, like, if I'm a teammate at Caleb, I'm busting his balls.

If it's not a, if it wasn't, this is before the MRI stuff came out this morning. Because it's like, all right, grade three, I've seen the grade three happen. Where it's Kedrick Goldston, 2016. He goes down week one opener when we were in Washington. And he's like laying on the ground dead. I'm busting his balls the next day after surgery because I'm like, yo, hamstring. We couldn't even get up. But if we're talking about a strain hammy,

the way Caleb was reacting, high emotion, everything else, he's probably bummed, he got hurt, like how bad's gonna be? He's not playing well on the offensive side. But if I'm walking in the training room the next day, and it's like, you know, you dab him up. Hey, you're all right, you're all right?

Like, oh, I think I'll be good. And it's like, Doc, like, what is, how long does he got? Like, we probably got to get him in a surgery. After what we saw yesterday, we got to get him in a surgery ASAP, right? Yeah, yeah. Probably slow you down and back, oh, no, he just strained it.

And then you got to look to Caleb and just say, we getting caught off the field for a strain. Carved off the field for a soft tish. Yeah, for soft tish. What was that? You were screaming, I was almost in tears for you. Like, God, don't take Caleb Williams from the Chicago Bears. The angle we're looking at, too.

It's like, I'm like, oh, that's an Achilles. It's got to be. Because, like, you don't see anything with a knee or anything. It's like, maybe something happened with his hip? I don't know. And I legitimately thought, like, oh, the bear season is over. All right. Real quick, let me just show you guys something real quick.

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Ready, set Ford, built Ford Tough. let's get back to the episode. I feel like Caleb Williams in the training room right now. Like I won't get these eyes off me as fast as possible. For him, the fist pumping,

thumb in the air. It's a, if he's good, awesome. If I'm Caleb Williams, Caleb Williams camps should probably be like, no matter how good you feel,

you probably should not play this week. Just so it's got to seem a little bit worse than it was. This might be the one time you think to yourself. Coach Johnson, you got to get me in a wheelchair. Yeah.

That would be the ultimate. Just at practice during individual. Right. Was that WWE thing where it's the cast and he pulls the blanket off and gets up? That's what we need

from Caleb Williams going into this game. National Anthem's taking place and then right before he pulls it off and puts his hand over his heart stands up. I was in the emotion

with everybody yesterday. I was like, oh man, that is fucking brutal. He said not Caleb Williams. Yeah, man. And then when Chifty comes out and says,

he's here at hamstring, not Achilles, or I don't even know if he even put Achilles in the thing. Yeah. But it's like, Oh, this is the greatest news you could possibly have.

Like, obviously it sucks extreme as hammy. But in the moment at the time, I'm like, this is the greatest news, period. Right. And then as I get to lane in bed last night, I'm thinking to myself, I says to myself, I'm like, yo, he got caught it off for a hamstring. Like, let's really go back and look at that. You got to bust his balls in the locker from the next morning. Let's go back and check that out.

Like, hey, what the hell was that? You had us all scared to death. Right. Because the bear's offense in week one was absolutely. operating and then week two it's like yeah things aren't going well versus minnesota but it's like torrential downpour with rain nothing's really going anybody's way it seems like just a defensive war taking place and it's kind of like one of those things you just wrap in your head be like this is kind of like a throwaway game

for like the bears offense and what they can be but when caleb goes down you're like oh my god it's over in chicago no question this season is done and just a hammie clean take clean take clean take just a hammie yeah kevin's natural foods clean take clean take We're glad that Caleb Williams is okay. Clean, yes. That is a clean take. I want to see him out there on Monday. That would be hilarious.

Shrimp around. Sprinting. The hammy situation. Did you ever have a soft dish like that? Yeah, bro. Played. Grade two. Hammy, at the bottom of the ass.

Grade two. Grade two. Dude, it was fucking brutal. Really? Strapped up, picked off Kirk Cousins and RG3 the next day. And? Two picks, one practice? Yeah, should have had a third, but just batted it down.

Yeah. It was only a P.B.U. Wanted somebody else to shine for a little bit. But it was brutal. I had to basically like an analogy just like duct tape my entire leg to where I like couldn't swing my leg up. Oh. Obviously if I was a draft pick that year, like I'm chilling. But I'm thinking, I can't, I can't go.

I have to go out there. I have to go out there. Yes, absolutely. I've never had a soft tish. Heard's terrible, but hey, we'll see some tear talks in here. Jared Ladd, is it more shocking to say, 2-0 Raiders or 0-2 Chargers hashtag tier talk p.S. Raiders!

I mean, we did kind of touch on this a little bit. It's insane to think that the Raiders are 2-0. It's insane. I think it's more insane that the Chargers are starting off 0-2 and their offenses looking like they are. That is the more shocking of the two. That's just bad ball, man. Yeah, I guess it equals out because no one,

you know, no one talked about the Raiders. How long is the leash before there starts to become Agap talk about the Chargers if it is really this bad because if you're always, what are they averaging like 10 points a game right now? It's horrendous on offense.

You're supposed to have a great offense. Devons is supposed to be good too, but Jesse Minter, he gets up and goes to the Ravens. Is there, we get to mid-October and nothing gets better? Is there anger?

Is there the fan base? Is there question marks as far as that coaching staff goes? Who do you get mad at though? Are you like Agap for Harbaugh? Agat for the coaching staff, yeah. I don't think Agap for Harbaugh. I don't think.

I think it would be McDaniel. Yeah. Does the narrative change on Herbert? Because there was already... Oh, 1,000%. The narrative's already been there with Herbert. It's like everybody just gives him whatever at least they give him because he has like statistically really good games and looks awesome.

Quite a bit. But the narrative is right there. Like if they have a year that they, if they continue to have a year like they're having right now, like, yeah, Herbert. They're going to be coming for Herbert. Yeah. It's hard to... It's hard to fathom that it's going this way

because they're new OC. Like you think he's going to turn all of it around and it seems like it's gotten way worse because of it. Is it that girlfriend his man? No. Well, what are we doing? Come on. Just asking questions.

Just got to ask questions. Fiance, is it that fiancé? That's what real journalism is. Asking the questions. We don't want to know the answer sometimes, but you have to ask the questions. Like she's pretty. I get it.

I'm like, I wonder if that, you know what I mean? It's taken, I mean, it's undefeated. It is undefeating. It's taking down man, time and time again. It's taking down our boy Justin Herbert. No, don't say that. Don't say that. Delaney's boy, Delaney loves Herbert.

Danny O loves Herbert. Those boys are also in the A Gap if Herbert continues this play. Also in the end. Z Money Man, 34, we had to hustle mentally to win the first iPhone. No wonder he made it 10 years in the league. Hashtag tier talk. Willie had that hustle mentality. Sorry.

To win that first I have fun. Right? Yeah, no doubt. There it is. That's a perfect example. LD. Yeah. Yeah. LD.

You got some LD too. I see this and I'm happy for you. The only thing going through my brain is what Jared did to me last week. Yeah. After this took place. That went crazy. That did go crazy. Went back and liked every single comment.

I still am doing it. I will say just like for the record, I felt scummy doing this. I told you guys, like, I did stutter pretty bad. And when I posted the clip, I cut the stutter out. I made it seem a lot more. Yeah, we saw the clip. It looked like a canvas after food's clean take is what it looked like. It was a clean shot.

It was what it was. Hit me flush right in the forehead. Ben Sulloch's necklace seems like he's got a clean take. Come in here. Hashtag teardtort talk. Hashtack tier talk is a dumb idea. Ben. It's not a clean take.

That's nasty. Shout out him doing it correctly. Shout at him doing the tear talk correctly, though. Good for him by Ben, but Ben, watch some football, buddy. Come on,

you don't want to be featured on the show? You don't have a little fun with the boys? Part of the whole camaraderie bust with the boys sit out of a bus, talking ball, getting around,

catching a vibe. Having some laughs. Sounds like Ben's, not a bro. If he doesn't like tear talk, he could just go throw that comment energy on the locker

and with his Twitter username. Yeah. We'll get you a little PBT. Yeah, so we're now trying to promote him. Yeah, Ben. I'm giving him some advice

on where to put the energy out. Oh, this is a good one right here. from Braxton Martin. Not huge race guy here, but would love the fellas to give a little breakdown on the fight we saw in NASCAR this weekend. Hashtag tier talk, hashtag tier one, hashtag, still not good enough. My God. I'm so torn mentally by this because Ryan Blaney, our first NASCAR guy. Friend of the show, double show. He's been on a couple of our shows. He's a double friend of the show. Love Blaney, love the mustache, everything. Hosevar. I've said it even to

the guys. Like, that's my racing goat right now. I love him. And for him to hit Blaney flush Kind of nice And they played dumb Like he clearly wrecked him During the race He said there and I don't know what happened He just kind of came in

And he spun himself And that was it Blaney The hat Popping up in the air Yeah Long hair And then he went back

To swing one on my I don't know if something got in the way of his arm I don't know if something got in the way of his arm But he wasn't able to clip hosso bar back at all Just a lot of bad tape On Blaney right now Can we just see the clip real quick, Sherm? Can we just see the clip?

Because that's tough. Carson got a clean shot. Also, Blaney ate it. He kept going. A little temple shot. Yeah, he's pissed. He's like, oh, no, I can't go out like that. I can't go out like that.

He was shocked that that, like, what just happened? He's like, oh, fuck. Blaney with the hair, too. Look at him. He's trying to come back. Oh. Oh, that wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. He connected.

He connected, yeah. I mean, you got the way you want. Not the way you want. at all because he went to give the grab first he wasn't expected to get well the way he walked up was like he's just kind of looking looking away like if i'm going at gp he's like looking away i just want to talk to i'll tell uh i'll tell you what go back to go back to when blaine pliny clips him host of art does some weird hand gestures after not this part the end of the ending the man he lands that comes back in i wish we could slow-mo this look at the handle

that little i don't know what that's all about dude he's probably like what the hell is that what the What was that? Blaney, like, oh, we're in a pillow fight? You threw a Nerf ball in my face right there for a year? Yeah, we got some slow, man. Blaney was doing his press conference, like, right after before the fight, and they were like, are you going to have a word with Hosevar?

He's like, something's going to happen. Yeah. Something's going to happen. Yeah. And they're like, what is that? He goes, I don't know. We'll just have to wait and see. And then to your point of the bad tape, it's like, imagine how hard that edit would have gone.

Something's going to happen. He slept him, dude. Because Hosevars got the height. He's got the length on him. You're first. your first tactic can't be to go in and just like grab the jersey No he's got length on you

He's already got the length on you You got to mind chain You gotta get in the body And bring it over the top Like you gotta understand Where your strengths are Because that's slender Yeah popped that helmet off man

Bro Super Mario bro The punch If you have long hair Or a hat on When you get hit It's always gonna look worse than it is That might not even be that good of a hit

But the fact that the hat comes off Yeah Tough dude Just a tough look I don't think like kind of to be on Hosevar's side like he kind of did like a cross talking about the race action

he did like a crossover to try to get to the inside but Blaney tried to block him and so it's not like Hosevar purposely spun it out like he kind of like Hosevar had like

you see Hosevar kind of straightened it up right at the last millisecond when Blaney was coming across Hosevar could have stopped that from happening for sure but I don't think he purposely

made it happen if that makes like I don't think he went in there's like I'm gonna fucking wreck Blaine. Here's a question here too. He's like, all right, Hosebar lands the punch right here. Gotta get the goal. What's that right? What's that right doing?

That right's not coming anytime soon. He's, he's, he's stunned. He's stunned. He's stunned by that. Yeah. I just want to talk to. Oh, he got him twice. He got him twice.

God. For Ryan Mullaney, though, you just got to burn the tape. But this is good for the sport. Great for the sport. This is great for the sport. We need more of this, really. We had the CEO on here. I'm sure he's watching that licking his chops.

right now. But I think the crew members got involved. Oh, so there's a, so there'll be, they'll be fine. I don't know, like they weren't the ones, like they were just pulling apart. Oh, they pulled apart. I think that's fine. That's you, you're protecting, you're protecting your quarterback in that situation. You can't have it.

Can't have it. That's good as long as no other punches are being thrown. But if either of those guys get fined, they need to come back to racing with the boys and see that the CEO said, hey, if it's just the driver, is all good. So we should not see a fine come out of NASCAR unless one of the guys, one of the pit crew guys threw apart. Hopefully we get to cover it on season two racing with the boys.

Hopefully. Hopefully we get a good conversation taking place. Gotta get us of all on you. Get them both on the bus. The same time. You know it be a fun segment to do with these race car drivers is getting two of them

that are like rivals and doing a lie detector test with them. Yeah. Right? Okay, okay, okay. All right. Another fun segment. No bad ideas in a brainstorm.

No bad ideas in a brainstorm. Oh, we got roast spicy tear talk today. And this was brought up by Jeremy Klomp first dance wedding songs shout out our boy, Deke. Shout out Deke. Get married this weekend. Get married this weekend.

Shout out, Dean. What's that first song gonna be? What was your first song? What was your wedding song? Oh, Jesus. Oh, no. No, no. He doesn't know.

Yes, I do. Yes, I do. Last to halftime. Hey, as you're thinking about it, I'm trying to think of my brain like, what is, what? Best shot by Jimmy Allen. Go ahead, Taylor.

What's yours now? We had it was Bruce Springsteen And I think it was tougher than the rest You think it was Because I know there was like elastic and change I'm gonna call telling You also had like a different kind of wedding Time out

Everyone was just trying to get at me for not knowing No he had like the celebration the year later I can't read Bruce I'm bullying you I'm bullying you Diamonds are twine By Ryan Hurd Hey what was our wedding song

I'll be wrapped around your finger So okay, okay, she just said, it depends. Oh, by the way, you're on Bustin. What do it? I'll put, I'll put you on speaker. All right, you're on speaker. What was our wedding song? It honestly depends, like, the one we tell people it is

and the one it actually was. Oh, yeah, do both. What are those? Yeah, I honestly, I don't remember what it actually was. Same, bro. It's like, but it was like Bruce, Breesie tougher. LD.

Tougher than the rest. Okay, I got that one right And then there was another one We're like, oh, we like that one better We'll just say that one's ours No, tougher than the rest is the one we like better We said was ours

Oh, what was a George Strait song And I don't remember which one Yeah, shout out George Straight All right, I love you, I gotta go Booty Okay, I love you All right

You say Boots Scoot Boogie Boots Scoot Boots Scoot Boogie So best wedding songs Best wedding songs Sorry This is how you This is how you fall in love by Jeremy Zucker and

Chelsea Cutler Oh Go clap Go clap I like that I like that Best wedding songs Sherman what was yours

Nothing can change this love by Sam Cook Nice I think there's your teacher Old school Yeah well might as well just We just rattle off Well what is yours

gonna be one day Jared I gotta think Downtown McElore Yeah Yeah. Freakily, Piti Pob. Freakily, yes. Dude, I love when there's like the piano,

when the bride's walking down, and it's like very much not a wedding song, but they do it as a piano song. I love that. A sleeper walk down the aisle is the Jurassic Park theme. Shut up, for real? I swear to God.

We did some 41 fat lip, and I was like, well, the day I was one, I'm like, oh shit, this thing kind of going hard right now. No one's going to agree with me or even know what I'm talking about. There are some tracks on the Minecraft like soundtrack that are very good wedding songs there. Drop a list, dude, drop a graphic.

Drop a graphic later this week. They're really good. They're piano. Mindcraft soundtrack for Tier 3. Minecraft soundtrack to walk down the aisle to. All right. Who is it? Kyle Long.

Who's with me on this? Kyle Long. Yeah. Is that who it is? Yeah. He'll know. He'll get that. I was, I just wasn't going to.

say anything because I didn't know if he was trying to sneak one in on us right there. Oh, I was about to fall face first. He got me. I was about to fall face first. That's the case. For ripping with the boys, a fun little flare. Post Malones only want to be with you cover is what we like after we kiss and they're like we announced the Brad Green, blah, blah, blah, and we walked out to that features a sample from Pokemon Silver, I believe, in the beat. Shout out. Shout out. I tell you that rips. But once, Will brought up the idea that someone's trying to get somebody. I am now in defense mode right now

and it's very hard for me to do this podcast. Oh, you thought I was trying to get you. I don't know. I don't know. I was not trying to get you. All right. Because now I'm scared a little bit. That was just a little factual.

A little nervous right now. Well, you'll get somebody. You got got. Actually, I had shortly after our podcast last week. Oh, that's right. I body bagged a reporter during a Kevin's Natural Foods Media thing. He did. I put him in the dirt.

Did they hear it? I hope so. What was his name? Sterling? Yes, Sterling. I killed this poor man, dude. Over Zoom? Over Zoom.

Over Zoom. And it was low-hanging. It was very similar to me the other day. Yeah. Dude, we were, because he started the interview about like Josh Allen, did we forget it with Josh Allen and ruined the playoffs of him? And we were like, whoa, whoa. Anti-Josh Allen guy.

Yeah, anti- Josh Allen. Anytime Josh Allen comes up, I immediately think these nuts jokes. And then he randomly asked us, what are like, our favorite music is to listen to or like a guilty pleasure of music so I hit him with the radioactive like who sings that are radioactive and he said imagine dragons

and buddy it was the bummer is is I don't know if anybody's seen it I know a lot of people saw Jared's I know a lot of people I've seen commented and looked at Jared's clear yours was so good too because you were like super nice about not getting him and then Will just jumps in front of the camera

Imagine dragon these nuts are on your face So he got tag team by the boys. And that's your roast spicy tear talk, man. Yeah. Let's get into Zach Thomas and Charles Haley. Let's do it, boys. Why not us, huh? Let's keep boys healthy in week three.

By the way, Jets, kind of nice. Are they? I mean, who knows? Jury's out on the Packers right now. Enter this episode. Big hugs. Time of kisses. We're in this episode to bring you neutral.

Neutral is teaming up with Bust. What the boys to give one lucky fan and their crew a chance to experience the ultimate tailgate in Vegas. This is the biggest season in sports and Neutral is helping one fan take their college football weekend to the next level. One winner and guest will get a chance to join myself, Will Compton and the bus and crew

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Enjoyed all season long, in tailgates, watch parties, and game day celebrations. Neutral, keep it tasty. These interviews are brought to us by Bud Light. Presented by Bud Light. Easy to drink, easy to enjoy. Bud Light has always brewed the four simple ingredients for that clean, crisp taste. Bud Light is the official beer sponsor of the NFL, the NFL Draft, and UFC that is now

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No purchase necessary. Open to U.S. Residence 21 Plus. Message and data rates may apply void where prohibited. Enjoy responsibly, guys. It's 2026 Anaheiser-Busch, Bud Light Beer, Light Beer, St. Louis, Missouri. Let's get into these interviews with Zach Thomas and Charles Haley. Ladies and gentlemen, this is a special episode of Bus with Boys. We have on Zach Thomas joining us.

We're on the Madden Bus right now. Zach Thomas, top five, I think number five all time leading tackler, finally got in the Hall of Fame. I know it's been an argument for, well, how long has it been? Like over a decade? It was I had to wait nine years, but that's really 14. Yeah. You know, and so when I wouldn't make it, you know, I'd go read the comments to try to boost my ego a little bit.

Feel feel, feel better about myself. But you come across comments is like, is Zach Thomas a Hall of Favor? You read one that says, nah, like, no, hell no. Nowadays, that shit don't matter all that talk when they even say he's all the good, but he's, I'm here. Yeah. It doesn't matter what ballot you are. And that's why I'm just grateful for that. for that but man that's a little piece of like the new era of football is so you get done

playing a game and you'll see nine comments but you'll kill that you're awesome and I kind of am kind of great huh but what's funny the one the it's like you suck and you're like fuck do they know but what's funny for Zach is how do they know how they find out but what's funny for Zach is he see he carries that he still has that competitive edge and sees it just as a human being and a player but he didn't even play in a generation where there were comments exactly or social media that's that's true I mean one leather helmet days but it was uh it was one of those where I used to find comments as something to motivate myself, you know. Yeah. And it could be, you know, we went to Buffalo one year. And during the week, I made the

pro bow and this guy named Sam Cowher, he had a pro bowl year. And his mom went on to the media. It was like, my son deserved it over Zach Thomas. And really he did deserve the pro bowl, you know? Yeah. And we both had a good year. But that whole game, I was motivated not to please Sam Coward's mom, which is crazy. It didn't matter. Just be motivated. Always got to find something. Every play, don't have her leaving this place saying, I told you so.

You know, that's the only thing. Any type of motivation, I found it. And I got a lot of, I would say hate because I just didn't fit the part. I wasn't the size. I mean, you were 5-11. Well. Well, six foot. We'll give you six feet.

Hey, no, I was 5-11 at the combine. I don't know how. But I was never been 5-11 in my life. I think now I'm like 510. Okay. But, you know, when I sent my tape and everything to Florida State when I was trying to go there because, you know, I love Barbara Jones and Derek Brooks and the whole war chat. They said you look 510.

I was. And even though it said, I was six foot, you know, on the, but, but yeah, I never got the respect because when people look at you, you know, they're like, he's a, he's an overachiever. He's the, you know. Try hard guy five-ten hard gritty and neck up type of guy Sneaky fast yeah five-ten white boy coming out of Texas like yeah you're just not gonna be smart for it I mean it's a it's it's a you know it's a badge of honor I hate that I hate it I want it that's I love it I'll feed into it even more being called a smart play I feel like long term is a great compliment

but if you're going through the combine no doubt as being evaluated based on your strengths weaknesses and speed like the tangibles you You want them people to be like, long, athletic, can do things other guys can't. Like, that's a shit that gets you like, oh, hell yeah. When they lead with the word intangibles, you're like, fuck, I'm already in a box. Yeah, yeah, and about two box guys. Two box guys. This career that Zach had, like, this is the peak of anybody who would be an undrafted cat.

Like you come in out of Texas Tech, you're five, we'll say 511 for the show, but naturally 510. But coming out of Texas Tech getting drafted with the fifth round to the Miami Dolphins, being at the bottom of the depth chart and becoming the starter that year over Jack Del Rio and then having the career that you had, I mean, that is the blueprint. Yeah. You know, we talk about the Combine and everything and going. I mean, I went 154th pick, but at the Combine, I remember because I was all American and

all that, and I go there and I had 17 guys get drafted ahead of me. But we're doing all these drills. And I wasn't a tester. And we get in the, we get there and we're doing the vertical jump. And my vertical, I never had a vertical man. 28 and a half. So I miss opening height. And I'm walking back.

Like a little pit bull jumping. Walk back. All these guys were just giving me that stick. Yeah. It was, I was pissed. Because, you know, they're all this. This guy's overrated, getting all this love, my junior and senior year. And I was just so pissed.

You can't, you don't have to jump to hit anybody, to be honest with you. But, uh, I just didn't tell. test good even with the 40, but I run faster with my pads on. What was the 40? What was it, 4-8? 485. Hey, same. What's us?

Let's go. 487. It was a record. I was bailed. It was, yeah. For a whole line. My 20-yard shuttle was good. I don't think it was as good as yours because I looked it up.

I did my research. Oh, no, shit. I think I ran a 424. I know I ran a 4-24, you ran a 4-2. And you know who, who, he's pretty good at those. This back and forth. That's all you have to do. Yeah.

The lateral movement at linebacker is mostly what you're doing. The angles, right? But A.J. Hawk ran a three-nine six. Bro. That's ridiculous. 3-9, like, I mean, for anybody, really. Yeah. And so I always, when I'm chasing somebody and I'm running at angles

and my first step and anticipation was good. So it didn't really matter, you know. But I'm not going to exaggerate how good I was now, like on the bus. but you know you don't have to exaggerate you have a hall of it you're wearing you're wearing the gold jacket

it's over you finally got it brother I was gonna wear it today but if you put that mic a little bit closer okay it might be masked

it might be masked is it bad oh put it higher yeah this is what happens on the bus we're all good man we're not a

produced well structured show it's good it's edited yeah exactly we'll probably keep this in hopefully hopefully got the hopefully we got the shot of Charles Haley staring through Matt Sol so have it here yeah that's what I got the the thigh working right there like this yeah just as long as this

thing's right around the the mouth oh god yeah no listen Matt and Busto how cool is that hey that's cool yeah you get to sit here do a podcast a little bit of inconvenience with the stand but I'll tell you what with mad like I had a 97 uh on the rating that's not bad no that's fucking 97's unbelievable. Yeah. That's awesome. I mean, I could be exaggerated, look it up. But the thing with Madden, though, what I love, we used to go with him before games.

He got his, he was, I think he really thought about with my pregame routine. He really asked me about that. And, you know, I always told him my shave and shower before the game, you know, and he couldn't believe it. You know, he just thinks a guy needs to be scruffy, you know, just missing teeth and all that. That's his linebackers, the old school linebackers, but he said to me, the one thing I always remember. So he said, you shit shower and shave for a game. Every game, he was so interested in that. But you know him.

That's just how he was. And he's a legend. And just to be on his bus right now. Dude, I know the enthusiasm and passion that he had for the game. Going back, starting again with your with your career when you got to Miami, what do you, what was it that Jimmy Johnson saw in you for where, again, going from force, starting at the bottom when you get there? Because again, fifth round pick, like anybody on day three, five through seven rounds, you're basically, you could be considered like an undrafted cat. But going and becoming the starter and taking a job like Jack Del Rios, what was it that Jimmy Johnson saw on you for you to kind of start the season as the guy?

Well, the special teams coach, Mike Westoff, came and worked me out at tech. And when I saw him, he watched a lot of tape on me. And when I asked me how much I benched and I told him 22, 25, 20 times. And I saw him right down 24. I'm like, damn. I wasn't going to correct him either. Yeah, of course not. But he's the one that got me there for special teams.

So Jimmy thought I was coming in as a special teamer. And when I got there, it didn't take, he said one week in camp because he even told him in OTAs or whatever it was that I was going to be the starter. And it took a week. You know, and to be honest, it might sound, you know, arrogant, but I don't, there wasn't. wasn't a time that I didn't start. It doesn't matter when I started at eight years old. I never had that Tom Brady, you know, fourth team, third team, you know, backup and all that. My whole career, you know, from, but it's from a, I'm from a small town like both of you guys, you know. And so I never had that competition that you would have. And so I was always the oldest kid, too. So my

confidence was sky high. And so going there, I was going there. I was going there to win the starting job and it took a week and I held it for 12 years and and uh even going to tech you know my freshman year I earned a starting job and uh so you know I felt like that's where I was good at you know and Jimmy brought me in to be special teams and then he figured it out quick and started me from the get though but I had a great timing the timing the timing you got to have good timing you got to have the right coach you know you can go at a different scheme that's you know not be the same players. So I had to be a little lucky along the way, which I was.

Because if I went to Pittsburgh, I would have been a special teams player, especially with Lawn Kirkland and those big linebackers. Those are the pluggard linebackers back then, you know. And so I went to the, it was a rebuilding team. Jimmy's first year. So it's perfect timing. And yeah, they cut

Jack and put me in the starting line up. How a week? What's it? Yeah, one week. They say a week, but he's just mentioned OTAs as well. Like a week in OTAs. Are we full pads in OTAs back then? We were. Okay.

So there's a little more physicality. Yeah. Now it's like, hey, we're in underwear. We'll find out in August what we got. You talk like just sitting down with you. You can tell how competitive you are. You do your research. You've already bought up a couple things about us.

It's like, oh shit, he actually looked up a couple things. I know about you too. Zach Thomas. I'm not going to take over the show, but you know what? Small town. Hey, you know what? Freshman year in high school. Guess what, what our record was?

What was it? 15 and 0. Hey, come on now. Guess sophomore year. We were six and four. Guess what I did? What did you do? I moved.

You got the same life. My dad, my dad bought a house in Tampa, Texas. This is a four-A school. And, you know, we had some problems getting there because they said it was for honors classes. You know, I wanted to move for honors, but it's for football. Of course. Because I wouldn't have a chance there in 1A to get a scholarship. But it's similar story because I've watched the show and when I heard.

heard that. I'm like, what? So we have the same same path, which is crazy. A couple of state champions here, 15 and no. God, state champion. I am envious. That was the best time ever. Of all your accolades, state championships got to be up at the top. No, that's, that's number one. Okay. So, hey, once again, that's what aligned. Oh, my God. It was the best. I tell you what I do. I do, I do envy it because, uh, I feel like I would agree like high school, the high school vibes were the best vibes. You win the championship you like I don't know I feel like maybe some guys did but I never felt once I realized like I wanted to play football like as a career like I wanted this to be my life

I was always so solely focused on making it to the NFL getting the NFL that I probably didn't I wasn't as present as I would have liked it been even in high school my freshman year we had a great team we were all white we didn't we didn't deserve when it state but we won it because we found a way and it was just guys just tough man and we all every Friday and Saturday nights, we would be in the wait room. Yeah. You know, and that's where I feel like I got all my confidence from the wait room, man. Because, you know, when you get in shape, you just walk and talk different, man. Cut off shirt. Oh, I'm going on a Saturday, too. And you're thinking yourself, ain't no way

any of these other guys are doing it. Yeah. Oh. Also, talk about alignment, 15 and no, a bunch of white guys and a couple of Mexicans, dude. We got it done. We had to say, Tommy Martinez. These are one Mexican on our ticket. We got to say, Eric Goli is our running back. I'm like, hell yeah, dude. I remember all our guys. So, yeah, that right there was a great senior class that, you know, I could watch my brother was all natural athlete, though. And he was different than me, he was six, two and a half. And he played at tech with me and went on a scholarship as well. But he was our quarterback.

And so that whole time, I mean, I just remember when the opposing team would pull up on their bus and we were all outside and we'd stare them down. There's nothing to replace that ever. I love that. I love that, man. It was the best ever. We had a team that we were out on the field and they were our rival, their panhandle, that they showed up for kickoff from the bus. They warmed up because they were 10 minutes away.

They warmed up and then they got on the bus and came for kickoff, right? Got off the bus. We wopped their ass. It was disrespect, you know what I'm saying? So it was just one of those. You can't replace those moments, man. I remember those for the rest of my life. And that was more fun than anything.

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It was just because you enjoy football. There was no business to it. And I love my small town. You're telling a guy that just absolutely loved ball. You mentioned earlier about like you were always, John Madden's bus, got to be respectful. You mentioned earlier about everywhere you went, you were always a starter. Was there ever a point in your career that you might have doubted your capabilities or, was worried about losing your spot or not gaining a spot.

They drafted or they drafted somebody. Because you were what, 14th guy, 14th linebacker taking in your draft class? I was, I was insecure, man. So I'd over prepare. That was just me to make myself feel better, sleep better. But I really never was pushed. And it was all from the inside and not knocking anybody. I did have games where I was hurt.

And the guy that went in, he played good. I'm like, damn, I need to get my ass back out there before, you know. Yeah. So I had ways, but I, man, to be honest, I didn't really have any competition when it came to, and maybe because they didn't recruit a lot of guys. Channing Crowder came in and he pretty much took my job. I'll tell him that. Yeah.

He loves that. He loves that. I know he was on your show, and, but he's a great guy. And I, he learned a lot, but he was a smart player. He really was, man. And he does a great job with his podcast as well. Yeah, the Pivot. Yeah.

What year did he come in? Not really. Oh, Nick Saban's first year. You know, Nick was trying to get rid of me from the get-go. He tried to trade me to Green Bay for Javon Walker or something. So I didn't like Nick at first. And then, you know, he brought a three-four. He thought I wasn't big enough.

And so I just played really good. And he couldn't trade me after that, you know. And so it really protected me more. You would think of three, four, it's different with different type three fours, but there's five guys on the line of scrimmage. Right. And so anytime I can shade up guys and they gave me the freedom to do that to never wear, there was guys getting clean shots on you, you know, and as a linebacker, that helped me.

And I got the freedom to do that because we were more basic, simple. And so they, you know, defensive coordinators knew that I did a lot of studying and all that, that they let me have that freedom. How was that the experience with Nick Saban? Because obviously he came to the NFL that he went back to college and people talk about it all the time, but having a front row seat

being Zach Thomas when he comes in, how was that experience with Nick Saban? You know what? He had some great coaches. We had Will Must Champ, Kirby Smart, Dan Quinn. It's a great staff. And he really was prepared, man.

It's just that, you know, he should thank Drew Breeze because not picking him up, I mean, that's why he's the best college coach ever, right? Yeah. I mean, he's the greatest. What do y'all say? Oh, yeah.

He's without a doubt. But if we picked up Drew where he passed on Drew, he would still be, I don't know if he would still be coaching of the Dolphins, but we would have had a lot better. That's why he went running because he saw it coming, you know. He knew. He knew. He was in.

He was late for one year? No, he was there for two. Two years went to Alabama. And he bounced. What was like the team perspective? of Nick Saban at the time. Because he won a national championship at LSU, right? From there, goes to Miami for two years

and then balances back to Alabama. You know, you clearly have a pulse of the locker room when he's in there. Yeah, he tried to, you know, he tried to be hard coming in too early. You gotta earn the respect to the guy, especially grown-ass men. And, you know, and it's not like college.

And so he would curse guys out, he'd curse coaches out, things like that. Not to knock Nick. He's a great coach. All our coaches cursed everybody out. But obviously that coaching at the college level, you do gain a different perspective when you are in the NFL with all the grown men that are around.

Yes, yes. And so, you know, he had a couple of mistakes he wished you to take back. But, you know, I felt like all we were missing was a quarterback at the time. It was a revolving door there with the Dolphins. And once he passed on Nick Saban, I mean, on Drew Brees, Yeah, he bounced, man. Yeah. It was a good move.

It was a good move. It was a strategic move. Yeah. A nice man with that. I knew exactly when he was leaving because he got real nice at the end of the year. And I'm like, damn, this guy's gone. Yeah. You know, he's being nice to everybody.

Yeah. I was like, that ain't, something's up. Letting us out a little early, being super nice to us. Yeah. How was it with Jimmy Johnson? Obviously, he's a legend of the game. That's my guy, man. And, you know, he gave me everything, gave me that chance, started me as a rookie.

He was awesome. He had, you know, a psychology major in his talks during the week and all that were awesome, man. And I love that guy and try to keep in touch with him and I owe everything to him. When was the first time you mentioned, you know, playing the high school days and you learned about more of being a business? When was the first time you experienced the business side of the NFL? that's a good question um well i feel like when i was when i was when i was when nick saban tried to trade me because i was playing really good and uh when he tried to trade me because i know everybody in the building and they said hey you're trying you're getting traded i'm like

really and when he tried to trade me that's when i knew the business side you know they always you know preach your loyalty but he was coming in he wants his guys that's fine i mean doesn't make him a bad coach you know but he uh they didn't get what they wanted and they didn't trade me and so I could have been there with the AJ Hop maybe play a couple years and play with Clay you know that would have been fun but but I was they thought I was more of a four three guy and which I was because they were bringing in a three four but yeah the four three was my favorite man it was simple you play fast and I had the freedom to move guys around you know Have you ever had a chance to check back in with Nick Saban and have a talk with him about that situation?

No, it would probably be kind of awkward, you know? Yeah. I mean, I feel like he had the, he'd be pretty open about it, right? I think so. He's done. He's backed out because when he did college game day, everyone's like, ain't no way Nick Saban's going to thrive in this. Because of just how he is. It's like he's strict.

He keeps everything kind of in-house. And now he's just, he's flowing. He seems like an opened up animal now. He's like, I'm going to do, I can talk about whatever. It'd be an interesting conversation, to say the least. I'm happy for him, man. Yeah. You know, he was, Jason Taylor was his guy, and that's who he would go to.

And I wasn't used to, because I'm used to all the coaches coming to me. And I wasn't his guy, but this doesn't make him a bad coach, man. He was a great coach. I give him that. And I don't have any animosity towards him. And I'm happy he's kicking ass. You know, but. You talked about wanting to go to Florida State.

You love that you're sending tape out there. You end up going to Texas Tech. I believe it was between Texas Tech and Oklahoma State, correct? Yes. What was it about Texas Tech that you're like, all right, I'll head that way? Well, I committed to Oklahoma State and went home and... Coot, yeah, B'Hsieg. He's a fan.

Well, I went to Stillwater and enjoyed my trip and committed and I go home and my dad won't talk to me. And I'm a guy. I just wanted to get my dad's approval my whole life, man. And my brother was at Tech. And so when he didn't talk to me, I changed. And that's crazy. The path, my path, I probably wouldn't be sitting here. Nothing against Oklahoma State.

But I probably wouldn't be sitting there right now. And then I went to Tech as a fullback. And you were fullback or a receiver? Both. I got recruited from Notre Dame as a fullback. But yes, the lure that you're speaking to, I was an Allstate receiver in high school. I ain't saying that. But I was an Allstate receiver.

Well, that's where I went to Tech as a fullback. And they had this guy named Bam Morris there, great player. He got a Doke Walker Award. He was a sophomore. And he was just a big dude that could run the ball. And he said, you got to back him up. I'm like, I'm going to the defensive side of the ball. And that's crazy how choices you make, determine the road you take, right?

And so it was one of those that, you know, even Bam, there's some history to him when he went into the NFL. And he had a great career. And he was at Pittsburgh. They just won the Super Bowl. and he got in trouble in the offseason. So Bill Cowher cut him and traded for Jerome Bettis. Well, Jerome Bettis is here, and his path changed because of Bam.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, knock it, bam, he should be in the Texas Tech Hall of Fame. Yeah. We got to tell Joey, y'all guys got some pull. Tell Joey he deserves to be Kirby Hall Cut. You could have a little bit more pool than us being Zach Thomas. Playing a Texas Tech.

We just get Bam in the Texas Tech Hall of Fame. But that's what I was saying, know how if you go back of both of you guys go over your career it's crazy when you reflect back how the little things that could change your path there's some stupid things you had i almost failed out in college same same yeah we were we're dialed was it freshman year oh yeah what did you have okay i had a 1.7 let's go that is wild did coach did coach go talk to you. Which one?

Which time? The head coach? Oh, okay, many times. Spike Dykes was our head coach. Great name, right? And he came to me and he says, hey, you're partying too much. You're going to be going home, work for your dad. He goes, you know there's an open bar or a party you can find every day for the rest

of your life. And you'll get bored with that, is what he told me. He says, but you won't have this opportunity you got right here. Man, that was the best talk ever. I audited my inner circle. I didn't want to go home and work for my dad because he would work my ass, you know? He didn't talk to you over committing to Oklahoma State.

Yeah, exactly. But you fail out. That's going to be a tough deal. Wow. Man, we have the same path. But when you look back at that, even how you ended up on this bus or any of that stuff, it could be an injury,

could have been a bad coach or a bad decision, getting arrested. There's so many things that could have happened, especially our day, you can get away with a lot more things. And for me, I'm so grateful to be on this bus, man, because I did some stupid things. And that's why I'm rambling here, but Texas Tech and that whole Soresby thing, that dude's 22 years old, man. The consequences,

I understand they should be, but they were too heavy. That's stupid. They forget with gambling. That's where college football makes so much money off a gamut. It's so hypocritical, and they're going to go hard on a 22-year-old. When you're 22 and you have money, I would be living under a bridge right now if I had that back in the day, you know? And I just, I hate that to see that when they go down hard because in all these other programs throwing stones because text, you know, got their program back in order. You know, I hated that, man. That hurts me because he's 22, man. Remember that.

22, man. Yeah, but the story's not done being written. Like you said, you did a lot of dumb things that led you on the path to end up here, end up at the Hall of Fame. could be the same thing for Sorsby. He could have a moment here where he's learning a massive lesson that later in life, or maybe in his NFL career down the road,

he makes a different decision because the consequences that have taken place. I feel for Texas Tech because regardless of what Sorsby did or did not do, Texas Tech had nothing to do with it. And so now there are seasons being hurt. I mean, Hammond I think he'd be a great quarterback.

Yeah, I like Will. I think he's going to do really well. I like Will. But yeah, it's like Texas Tech didn't do anything. I think Texas Tech did the right thing by supporting their guy because they're in his building he didn't do any of these things when he was in that building yeah so that sucks for tech but i mean sorbsby's an athlete yeah he'll get a shot he'll get

a chance and if he's good enough he'll make it and keep going so just like you just said it is all very like unfortunate situation because it's also tough too it's like the the world of gambling that we are in this first example i'm sure he's not the only one out there that and they just it just hasn't been found out yet right but what do you do it's like you the example's going to be set somehow This is the first big public one that we're kind of aware of. Even though the Iowa guy, wait, no, I mean, because Soresby's not, he's not playing this year. This is back when Soresby was going to be playing. The Iowa guy's like, I got canned the entire year.

Like, why couldn't I play my senior year? So, dude, it's just such a stinky situation. And it just sucks because we were out there. Yeah. Big Sorsby guy. We got our hands on Sorsby. Yeah. We got to look at the physique.

Talk to him a little bit. Have some laughs. Share some laughs. And you just know, yeah, it's like they are young. And it does suck because he seems like a really good kid. Yeah. And it doesn't feel like that's the consequence he should have. But in the grand scheme of everything, it's like you're just in a tough spot from the NCAA standpoint or just a college football standpoint.

Because it's like, yeah, the precedent's going to be set somewhere. If a kid knows that they're going to get to play from week one, how many other examples are we going to see now? And then in the legal realm, are they going to use that example? Well, Soresby got to play. Right, right. Or if it's only a three game. like okay I might take a three game hit because I was gambling on the side because I was a backup I understand I understand it dude it's just unfortunate because again it's like I want to see him out there slinging the football right like just a state of college football and itself like there's going to be a documentary of what's happening right now in college football with all the N IL eventually because it's the wild west like people want to make Texas Tech look like a villain because they're spending all this money code of Campbell's coming in hey we'll pay whoever to the point where players who are even being scouted by Texas Tech at the transfer portal are going to these other stories school is being like tech's offer me a million what do you guys got for me and tech hasn't offered

shit because there's not that transparency taking place so these critical things that are happening in college football right now kind of need to happen in order for us to kind of land in a spot where okay college football has like balance with what with guys get paid how they're getting paid how the process works like even from a schedule standpoint like these dramatic things have to take place in order for real change to happen because I believe it's in the words of Josh State, like legality, like legal things, Congress, Senate, those types of things have to take over in order for calls. Yeah, we just, we need the urgency to get going to like fix the system because there's opinions out there where it's like, you know, some solves that everybody

talks about is out there and they're just urging for the system to kind of fix itself. Yeah. How often do you get down to tech? I try to, I try to get out there as much as I can. Yeah. I'll go and Cody sends his plane. Oh, there you go. Yeah. That's a way to go, man. He seems He's awesome. He's a great guy. And what they've done, the Womble Center and all that stuff, the training center there is amazing. We don't have to fly our recruits in at night anymore, you know. Yeah.

And now because they call it old money, you know, it's all money. That's how they talk in Texas. But it does help. I mean, we're just trying to keep up. And I'll tell you what I'm happy that I love our linebackers, by the way. You got a. Y'all are giving them love, too. Awesome guys.

Good good guys. The Will Curry and the Ben Roberts, both of those guys. And then we got Jacob down in Miami now. Yeah, yeah, let's go. With Jordan Brooks, man, we got some linebackers out of tech, man. Yeah. What did you think of the Jacob Rodriguez saga? Oh, I loved it, man.

I missed out because they asked me to go announce at the draft, the second and third round. And we picked, you know, two Red Raiders in the second and third round. And Jacob was one of them. I was so happy because he's a humble guy, as you know, and he's a baller. So he's going to make a big impact for our team. We might have to take a couple steps back, you know, before we can step forward. I think he guys are here. He might still be in a good spot.

I hope so. But I know we got two guys leading that, you know, from John Eric Sullivan and Jeff Hathley. Both those guys are guys, man. Yeah. They could be here on the bus with us, man. And just hang out and it'll be, you know, natural. Yeah, just talking shop. Yeah, man.

When you look back at your career, what is like, maybe a moment or a game or something that you're like, this is my favorite, my favorite game or moment I've ever had in my career, like something that you're like, this is the kind of player I am. You know, that's a good question. I would say moment would be the one-A state championship,

but I was just a freshman and I was just on defense. Just on defense. Hold on. I was just a start. I never left the field, you know, when I was most of time. And but I think against Oklahoma, my sophomore year in the Sun Bowl or something like that, I prepped all week. Everybody was going to Juarez and all that stuff.

And I just prepped all week watching film. And I found something that I liked. And I said, I'm going to take advantage of this. And I set the bowl record with tackles for losses. I think it was like seven. I know it was seven. I'm trying to be humble. Yeah, yeah.

But you know. seven tackles for losses against OU. Even though we lost, that's when I said, man, I'm going to make it, man. Even my junior year, even though I went out my senior year, my dad was telling me to go out my junior year, which wouldn't have been a good move. But, yeah, that would be the game that I just said, man, I'm pretty good. And you brought up your dad when he didn't talk to you after coming to Oklahoma State. Like, was there really no conversation that took place?

Are you kind of like, oh, I just need to, I'm just going to decommission to my own and then go to Texas Tech? You know, yeah, he, you knew. I mean, he's the guy. He was so tough on us because he was raised poor and then he hit wealth and no one gas. But he was a guy that never wanted to give us the silver spoon. And so it'd be the weekend. And it's 7.30 in the morning and you're asleep, he's kicking the door open. Get your lazy asses up, you know?

That's what I remember. Yeah. And he had us get jobs, but he always made time for us. And that's why I'm really grateful for him, man, because there was nothing but love in that house from out the doors to the windows, man. Because it was just, he was so, you know, hard on us, though. And I didn't understand at the time, but it was tough love. And I know I'm not sitting on this bus because of him.

And when he didn't talk to me, man, because I just want his approval. Even I'm a grown-ass man today. I still want his approval, you know? It's just, it's crazy how that works, but it's respect. And that's what he always taught us. You know, and I really appreciate my dad. He was the best. Taylor was talking about, you know, moments that can kind of,

when you figured out you were going to be a guy. How about a defining moment when you were in the league that first year? Because you also alluded to some luck taking place and coaches and everything else. Was there a defining moment in that first year to where it, you know, thrusted you into that starting job and you took advantage based on a game or a practice. Then it come later when an injury took place, you played through it and this was a defiant moment

in your career? You know, defining moment was my first game against the New England Patriots and I caught Sean Jefferson in a reverse and knocked him out of the game, not bragging because, you know, I got knocked on my ass. That's what it is. What it is? It is. And it was like,

everyone gets God. You know, they say you're welcome to the NFL moment, but that was my welcome to the NFL moment. And then I had mine three years later with the bad moment. But that was the game that really just said, hey, man, I'm here, man. They're like, who is this guy? And, you know, I think the best, the moment,

because you remember moments, you know, the moment we played up in Buffalo, it's the fifth game of the year. We're taking a plane ride back. And Jimmy, you know, he'd have a couple of Hanukins in the front and he'd come in the back. And I had a really great game. And my first five games are really good.

And just his moment of his look and he just smiled at me, that's the best moment ever, man. I just already knew. I made it, man. You know what I'm saying? I'm pleasing this guy. I was a cowboy fan just like you. Love Charles Haley. But I wanted to be Emmett Smith, man, forever.

Yeah. Yeah. He said all the right things does. Man, let me tell you. I love the cowboys. And, uh, but back to that moment with Jimmy on the plane, you know, stick with me forever, man. I just like he. Yeah, because fucking Jimmy Johnson, too, already winning in it with the Cowboys.

Yep. But yeah, I'd be in the front yard with my dad. We'd be Emmett Smith, Michael Irvin, Troy Eggman, Jay Novichick. Oh, man. All of them. Ken Norton, Jr. Yeah. Yeah.

Nate Newton. Oh, the best, man. The best. Uh, then that is badass. Yeah, Darren Woodson. Darren was sweet, man. And for Jimmy Johnson to be giving you, dog. Yes.

Yeah, that's cool, man. And I was happy to come in that year. It's just so much timing. You know, I was his guy, you know? And so when they draft you, man, you got leverage. You're more equipped than everybody else. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

And when you got that leverage and you feel that leverage, it don't even matter. You never second guess yourself. You get what I'm saying? Yeah. And when you got that, it never left me, man. It never left me. Even later on my career, everything was always between the ears first. I didn't even give a shit about the rest of it.

You know, they tried to say that I was a smart player like we talked about, but a lot of it, man, was just my read that I, making that transfer to a bigger school, a coach taught me a read, and it made my first step really good. It's crazy. If I didn't make that move, I wouldn't even be on this bus. So I'm grateful as hell, man. And that's one thing that helped me, too, being grateful.

And, but how was it when you did get to go, where the star in Dallas? You know what? I loved it, man. I went and played out of position. And it was after I had my hard concussion, man. I had a tough concussion to proceed the previous year against the Cowboys. Matter of fact, Jason Garrett was their coordinator.

and first play of the game, my grandpa, who was, he never seen one of my games live. I'm in my 12th year. He flew out for the game. He's old school. And so before the first snap, they come out in 21 personnel. And I see they're bringing a linebacker. I went, what the hell? And then they get him in i backs.

I'm like, they trying to send a message. I already know. And so I went in there to hit this dude. He was a linebacker for him. I knocked him out, but I knocked myself out. I'm not it was one of those that I go to the bench and I was falling asleep on the bench and so you know

back then the baseline was so easy to pass you know they tell you what they didn't want to take you out you know what I just ask you your name or something but I remember putting two smell of salts up my nose and didn't even affect me but I was not coming out of that game because my grandpa was at that game I'm like no way he's going to come watch me play one play everything was blurry after that

played pretty damn good but the symptoms after that the symptoms kill me man it's pretty decent actually yeah i did how many titles you have well sometimes that ain't good and they beat a sec day but i i had some great plays probably at least a dozen you know yeah man and and it's one of those and it was all blurting yeah you know and uh so it's one of those that i wasn't taking myself out but back to dallas i didn't like that move because I was playing a different position that wheel is so hard it's so much different read than in the middle and so I thought I could just adjust and I didn't but it all happened for a reason and I owe Jerry Jones you know we were at practice one day and Jerry comes up to me

says Zach get out of here and what am I cut you know he's like no your grandpa's in grave condition the grandpa I told you that came watch me play and uh so I said damn so I flew private to my hometown in Tampa, got to the hospital, talked to him for three hours. We laughed, cut it up. And he passed away. Like, but man, I'm not trying to get emotion. Anybody ever cried on this bus? Oh, oh, yeah. We are a lot of time. Okay, okay. But I'm not trying to. But my grandpa, man, for, I knew there's a reason I went to Dallas because I passed up on New Orleans and things like that. I could have played Mike. But it's super aggressive, different. And I knew there's a reason for that even though I played out of position and uh I owe debt for Jerry man they can hate on

him all they want he's a great guy and I really appreciate that that moment yeah I'll tell you what Zach feels like a guy you can have a few with at the end of the night you're just you're looking at the stars and it's nothing but perspective you just how we got to this moment you're just in a flat area of Texas yeah yeah with him man sitting after you're in a hard days of work you want to go to sleep but you're just going to have a case of beers yeah like hey you want to go hunt coyotes later. I got the jack-riper call on the truck. Exactly. Just telling your story. Yeah. A story, man.

Nothing like that, that just hearing the wind blow, man. Amen. I didn't tell you what. You can even expand a little bit on that, but I'm kind of with you. You're in the wind blow. The wind blow. Because, you know, it's flat out where I live. I'm from the Texas Pan Anandle.

And just being out there and just hearing the wind blow and it's just, you don't hear any noise, man. Just that. Birds. You can hear the birds. You know, that's stuff I miss. I live in South Florida now, but I miss the Texas, open friendliness, you know. You got a spot out there still? No.

My dad does. My dad. He's got a few spots. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Sounds like you guys got a nice little set up taking place, huh? Yeah. Yeah.

So. When your career is over and for about a decade, well, you alluded to 14 years because you've got to wait five to be eligible for the Hall of Fame. Yeah. How was that year and and year out for you? when the arguments are taking place, the debates are taking place, it gets a little louder or louder. It almost gets even more louder

because the farther you get out of it, I'm sure the farther you feel like, man, is it my career even going to be remembered? Yeah. You know, I really didn't think about it that much, you know, because I got a lot of respect from a lot of guys that would even, you know, that were inducted from Kevin Moyi

and Peyton Manning, guys like that, gave me a respect. And so that's all that's important because, you know, be honest with you man if if you're one of those guys and you all both play with guys they're probably all about themselves and it doesn't matter if you're hall of famer man nobody's going to respect you know and that was number one with me man so i wasn't really losing sleep over it but yeah reading comments i mean you know i read the comments and and uh but it just uh what was your question

again that is more yeah it was more of like how was uh year in and year out when the hall of fame topic would come up dealing with the next class coming in you get snubbed again Well, it's it's one of those that when you get in, nobody's going to remember what ballot you were, you know? Yeah. Unless it's your first ballot. That's different, man. And I got in because there was a window that could have closed

because look at Luke's coming in. What a baller he is. And the amount of years he did everything in. And there's other guys that are deserving to. London Fletcher. Oh, 100%. I was just about to say his name. He was so underrated being that, you know,

You see how long he played his longevity, Super Bowl. He got a Super Bowl win. But, you know, the thing that really affected me, I forgot how I missed the locker room, man. You know, like when you're out 14 years, you know, we hung our whole lives with like-minded individuals, you know. and guys that know the same commitment and chase for excellence and stuff like that now I hang with soccer dads you know it's like it's not the same

nothing against them right I love there's some good people yeah but they weren't they weren't chasing something it's not the same yeah it's just not the same this soccer dad of one of your buddies right now this is going yeah how am I going to approach you

what time I see in practice it's not the same and you just missed the guys you just relate to busting balls all the time and uh that's what i missed the most you know when i got back i figured that out fast i'll try to tell a story that you know my first year being inducted i went down to the uh the lobby and there's randall macdaniel there and i'm like randall what's up man and uh he said i said hey where's the breakfast at and he says uh he goes to these two doors and opens it up and says the buffet is for hall of famous you know i said okay thank you man so i walk in there and I'm grabbing a plate and I'm getting all these looks and it was for

hall of favors all right it was hbc u black college hall of favorites like he sit me in there he's laughing his ass off I'm over there like you ass oh man real jerk I have a plate of eggs and I kind of like just put it down like you know one of those awkward moments it just walked out that's the shit that you missed yeah yeah so that's that's that locker room yeah man I think you hit it on the head, though, too. It's like when Peyton refers you as like the guy who gave them the most problems, you just have respect from all of the football community. I would say that that would fill the void of ever thinking about the individual accolade of actually wearing the gold jacket

is knowing like how well respected you were across the league, how people, even when you weren't in it, people are still yelling your name about how you should be in. And it's almost like that's the feeling you want to have anyway is the respect of all your peers. That kept my name relevant, you know, because at time, all of our, you know, our history fades, you know, and for guys that you played against to get respect like that, that's the more, especially from Peyton, man. Buddy. That was playing at Indianapolis is probably the, you know, one of the best experiences ever because it's quiet. You know, you can hear everybody and hear the calls and all that stuff.

And he changed it up. I never really knew what he was running. But where my strength was was more knowing run from past, you know? And when you know run from past, man, your odds of winning that play is so important, especially when you can tell the D line, just hunt, go, go, you know. When you can tell them that, that's when you win most of time. And that's where my pre-snap was good because I had a lot of tails, man, that I would look at. And that's the shit you miss, man.

Yeah. And scope it out a little bit. For both of you, what is such a big deal about going from the Mike linebacker to the Will linebacker? Well, I think number one, it could vary with different teams depending on who would be wearing the green dot. But the guy who's the mic is usually the one operating. So when you're the Will, like there would be moments where I would play the Will with or I'm filling in for somebody. When I first started to cut my teeth in, I was taking over a job for the Jack or the Will in this scenario. Tori, you're not the one out there directing traffic and saying everything else.

you might communicate with just your mic backer or the safety behind you. And then you're kind of split in the field in half. So as a mic, you're more protected because you have guys on each side of you. So even though you are running the middle and running and roaming around side to side, you have that freedom, but you also have a little bit of protection. Whereas in the wheel spot, you can get a little bit more isolated. Oh, yeah. And also, too, when you're in the middle, because my read was more offensive linemen,

two backs, where a lot of times guys were going back. to offensive alignment. So you can see both sides. When you're playing at Will and you're trying to see that backside guard, that's hard. And it's a different reed, you know. And so for me, yeah,

will was hard. And even when your entire identity and career is wrapped up as a mic, you know everything about the mic position and you're trying to like relate it to the wheel because you're not trying to like confuse yourself whether you're bumping over. I would always like have to think about that too

is like double right in my note. book like I'm not going to this gap I'm going to this one this safety's coming down and God forbid if you're isolated three by one far gun oh yeah with the offset yeah with the offset yeah it's about it's about yeah it's about yeah it's about yeah it's about it's about yeah it's about it's about I always hate I always hated it when they had the offset to Jason Taylor because he's not we're not gonna I'm not gonna tell him butch we had a butch call where I would blitz the B gap. The bang.

Yeah, you can go butch, bam. And I wouldn't tell him because, first of all, even when I said, hey, watch out for the draw. He'd go, hey,

I get paid for sacks. You get paid to make the draw play, okay? Like, all right, man, go ahead. He's a hall of favor. But when it got on the other sides, I was always butch,

butch, you know, doing that. You have to get there, though. You have to get there. Because a lot of times they slide the line to Jason,

so I hated that because you really couldn't, and they were free releasing, So they were sliding the line and free release. A lot of times they put the back opposite of him. But when they were releasing, it was a challenging, always challenging from the Larry centers to Charlie Gardner was a beast coming out. The backfield scatbacks that they would. Oh, yeah.

You know who's, man, from the New England Patriots. He was awesome from LSU. Godly. He was really good back. Kevin Falk. Kevin Falk, underrated. And I say, I forget his name. God.

I respected that guy. Yeah. You know, they would always try to isolate us because we played two safety high and we played a four-man front. And so they always would isolate me in the middle because you know the easiest pass in the world is the one in the middle of the field. So you would never try to give up inside technique. But I remember one year I was in Vegas and there was Mike Shanahan

and I saw Mike I'm giving my respect and all that stuff. And I say at the end when I'm leaving, And I'm like, hey, Mike, don't be trying to isolate that back against me, man. I try to use reverse psychology on him. And then the next season, we're playing them in Denver. And they come out in four wides on the very first play, neutral back. I said, son of a bitch. I look over at Mike and he's over there smiling at me.

I already knew they're going to isolate me. They got nine yards. But damn it. It's the worst feeling in the world, man. When you know the focus is on you. They're running everybody off and it's right there on you. And you couldn't do anything. The thing that would help me was trying to do some stunts and games in the front.

Because if you just throw off their feet one little move, they lose all momentum. And they have to get fully just in their breaking route versus them like optioning you. Yes, yes. If they can free release, that's so hard. But if you can stop their feet, it could be half a second. it's a whole different game they get caught in the trash a lot of times too so i figured out ways to to help myself in times because man that's challenging yeah yeah and no matter how it's no matter how much effort you give in the technique that your position coach and coordinator and

fucking everybody tries to talk about staying inside you see how your feet get a little wider you see how your hands go here you're just like motherfucker it's so much easier in this air conditioning right now coaching it. You go cover that motherfucker, man. They tried with safeties. They would try with... Even when they would experiment on a safety coming down and the same thing would happen. I'm telling you, it's hard. That's the hardest

coverage. I don't care. You could be out there at corner and you have the sideline as a defender, but when you're in the middle of the field and it just seems like we had a four-man rush. Yeah. So I'm like, man, y'all better get y'all's going because, man, he hold it. Even New England

with Kevin Foll. Just to just a Just interrupt. I like how we've gotten to the spot to where Mike Backer is now harder at covering than cornerback to it. 100%. 100%. All day long. All day long. All day long.

Especially even Kevin Falk came in the middle one time and did an in and out and a lazy one and then went up on me. It's hard, man. It's a hard coverage. Catch you sleeping a little bit, turn their back and then turn it up field. Yeah, man. Yeah. That's okay. We're just having some PTSD over here.

Yeah. Hot flashes back to when you guys were playing. I used to curse everybody out when I came to sidelines after that. Yeah. I know, especially you get the sack guys that don't want the butch call or the bam call. And I'm just like, buddy, I'm fucking giving you one because that's how we'll be successful on this play. Did you ever have a guy like Taylor that would be like, no, I'm here to be back. Oh, for sure.

Like Kerrigan, like Kerrigan, but Kerrigan, like, he was a sweetheart. He'd not want me to. But if it was a situation where I just absolutely knew that this play was like, they're trying to isolate me, I'm doing it because that's how we're going to have success in the play. Because if not, like, you rushing up field and getting a good start, you're not going to get to the quarterback because the back's already going to have the free release, hit the angle right, or whatever they're trying to do in the race. You want the sack, but if I'm left alone on this guy,

you're not going to get a sack because the ball is getting out. Right, right. Like, if we know exactly what they're trying to do, like how they're trying to attack you offensively, not like, hey, I'm just on my own, like, let me just protect my ass the whole time. But if you know when the back's fully chowd, this is the look, the wise flex a little bit. You're on the 16-yard line. He's in the boundary.

It's like this one, buddy, bam him coming out because they're trying to go to him, get the quarterback off that first read so they can go somewhere else. The best thing. Way more complicated, man. Just block him. Block the widest.

The one thing you've got to know your players, though. So if your defensive end is stiff, there's no way, you bam him, you don't butcher him. You know what I'm saying? Don't put him in coverage. You know, we had a guy, that was kind of a meathead. It was your now, just to be clear,

are you saying Butch like a heel? Butch's is if the back goes outside, you're taking them, but don't give up inside. Okay, we call that peel. Gotcha, gotcha, got you got you. Because they're usually sliding away because you have the back to that side. And so it's wide open B gap blitz.

And so we had a guy that Channing was, because you know, Channie didn't want to cover. And he's telling him, Butch, Butch, and you got to tap. You got a tap. Yeah, love to know you heard him. And the guy looked back and says, my name ain't butch. I'm like, what the hell?

You got a, hey, so he didn't even know the call, you know? And so Chattie's trying to tell him that he's going to blitz. I say, but you got to get that tap because he didn't even know it. But I thought that was pretty funny, the butch. My name ain't butch. The hell of me butching this, dude. Yeah. It's been beautiful.

You think about BLQ? We can hit the BLQ. All right. I could talk to Z-T. Yeah, I could do this all day, man. Yeah. So, but this is a very important question. So I need you to lock in for this one.

Are you familiar with the BLQ? Is that the but light question of the day? You are a neckup guy. You really are dialed in. You're probably one of the only guests we've had that I felt comfortable enough asking if you knew what that was. I already know. Some of these nuggets you put in. We all know anybody would do anything for an ice cold bud light.

What's something that you would do anything for? Well, I thought about this one because y'all ask you most of the time, right? It's a hard one. You know, I feel like there's somebody that's, said they want to live a longer life but that would be kind of cruel because watching your loved ones die and then and then uh i'll i just say be more grateful man grateful that just grateful that i was born be honest we're grateful i live in america dude there's so many things grateful i got to play a game for a living if you're just grateful i don't care how long you

want to live if you're just negative and all that stuff you want to get the best out of your life and And I feel like I think grateful for me always won, man. Grateful to have a football gave me everything. It gave me family, you know, purpose. And I'm grateful. I'm sitting on a bus with you guys. We're just bullshitting and talking football, man. I'm grateful as hell to even be here today and go to Ray Niski luncheon today.

That's going to be awesome to see these guys that you looked up to talking. They get up and talk. And it is awesome, man. I'm still a rookie. So they got to ask me to talk to talk. Yeah. Yeah. I respect these guys.

Hey, you're saying that too. Who were some of your idols? Well. Growing up and then even guys you saw on the field, even when you were Zach Thomas, that you're like, that dude right there. I've always respected his game. Number one, before I got to college was Mike Singletary, but then Emmett. I loved Emmett. Way ran the ball.

Junior, man. Junior sale was my favorite of all time. I got to play with him. And man, that guy was the best, man. He was full of pranks. And, you know, it's sad because you never check on a smiling friend. And, you know, he drove off a cliff one time, 100 foot. And he survived.

And at the time, I didn't think, you know, I just text him, what the hell? And he responds in third person because he was awesome. He's like, buddy fell asleep. And so you believe him because he was always that good energy. You never thought he would, you know, do what he did. I wish I could have been there for him, and that's pretty tough. But I miss his pranks, man. Like the best story that I tell with him was when I was at first made the Pro Bowl,

the night before the game, I'm getting ready for the game. And you know out there, nobody's really caring as much, but I am. And I go down and juniors at the pool with John Lynch, and he's like, sit down, ski. I'm like, all right. So we start having some maties. And we drink until like three in the morning. And I'm like, oh my God, I got to go back to the room. And Junior could go. He was 100% off the field too. And so I'm leaving. And they said, hey, you're going to hit the first bus? I'm like, yeah. And they go, all right, man, what room number are you in? Man, we'll make sure you're up. And I'm like, thanks, man. So I'm checking out the next day. They put all their drinks on my room.

all the week of all the drinks my bill was my bill was the highest damn bill ever and i'm over there playing that game like we need to win man because i need to pay off my damn bill that you put on but that's the shit that you miss you know what i'm saying uh so but buddy rest in peace man that guy was a awesome 12 year pro bowler man and and he played downhill and talking about somebody who would just blitz the big gap my god he was awesome dude One of the best players I ever got to play with and of the game. Would he ever just go rogue and just blitz? I never did.

Well, that is wrong. There was in red zone one time when they're getting a three by one and they have a neutral back. He would go weak. I would tell our defensive end, hey, cover him if he flares because there's a red zone beater and I blist and I got the sack. But you have to get the sack. But I did that. he make it. Junior did it all the time.

I mean, it would be like regular defense, base, and he'd say, baby, baby, or Apple, and just would just wreck shit up. It didn't matter because he was wrecking stuff up, and it would leave something wide open. But most of the time, you know, they never could get time to it because he saw something. That was amazing. He was a downhill player 100%, you know, and I'm just happy even to play with him a couple years, man. It was awesome, man. That's incredible.

Zach, man, tell you have any more? No, I will say that this has been an awesome podcast. You talked about if you do anything for what you do anything for, you say gratitude. It's like, I think I've sat on this bus and just listened to you be grateful the entire time, which is awesome because I feel like so many guys could walk away from the game and feel jaded about just a couple situations. But the fact that you did it, made it to the Hall of Fame and still have this like viewpoint

of what the game did for you. And you don't feel jaded in any way it seems like. So it's been an honor to sit on. the Madden bus with you and hang out. Well said, man. And you can tell, two, talking to you that how much appreciation you have

for people that have impacted your life, whether big or small. Yeah. So many. Especially the old man. Oh, yeah. Grandpa.

Even just friends, even to the moment where he's like, can you believe we're on this bus, man? I'm like, you're all right. Yeah. He's pretty awesome. You can't forget those people, man.

There's so many people you look back at. And I didn't really realize until I'm writing my speech. I'm like, my God, amount of people that I can, I only got 12 minutes, but I couldn't thank them all. But there's so many people

that affect your lives that that's when you get even more grateful. When you go, whoa, how am I even here? One wrong decision, one injury, one, you know, failing out of school, I wouldn't even be sitting here right now. I got right over by a truck when I was two years old. Bro, yes.

You know? So I always thought I hit the lot of, I would always, anytime I would have a bad day, I'm like, shit, I could have been dead. Two years old. How violent was that? I read that you got hit by a truck at two years old. Are you talking? You got bumped?

No. It ran me on or are you in the hospital for a few days? I was in the hospital. It wrote my arm. It had tire tracks over me. No way. They have two years old. Two years old.

My dad left me. This is 70s parenting here, man. My dad left me on the farm with him while he was working. I was just playing on the back of a tire and a farmer. you know, backed over me, but what saved me was dirt because I was on dirt. And so it knocked me out, stretched my skin a little bit, put me in the hospital, broke my arm. And, you know, then my dad said, hey, I always knew you're going to be a football player because you just, you, you survived that, you know, so. But isn't that crazy? So anytime I looked at any, every time I having a bad day.

And then leaving him and being like, that's how I know you were going to make it, man. Didn't die. Good for you. Did the bump in the hot tub? Need you on the form this weekend. Exactly. How bad is that arm actually? Stretch my skin a little bit is also a crazy comment. We kind of went over.

What do you just like, your skin actually, do you have like stretch marks from the tire thing? Well, yeah. I mean, it had, it stretched my, it went over my face. No shit. Yeah. I mean, I'm not the best, maybe I used to be better looking or something, you know?

Like, I'm not the most photogenic guy. Could have been a male model until you got hit by this damn. Oh, yeah. car i got story after story now you talk about melmodel i'll tell you this story under armor went to to miami and uh they wanted to give me and jason taylor a package deal and so they they had him model their underwear and everything guess what they wanted me to model what hunting gear yeah hell yeah hunting gear and they wanted me in the tree stand with you know camouflage on and all that stuff while they're putting baby oil and freaking jason you know it's one of those but that's a that's the thing

i know we're on this bus but when you get around the guys the stories get better each time but the stories is what like today when i'm going back over here having drinks hopefully y'all come find us we'll exaggerate some more stories man and and uh and that's what i miss most about it this is the locker room and this is what don't take for granted what you guys got because as, you know, I would love to be a coach, but it's too many hours. But you guys, y'all get to stay connected with the locker room.

Think about that, man. And thinking with guys, hearing everybody's stories and all that, you get that same type locker room feel, man, and you're getting paid for it. How about that? It's crazy. We think about it all the time. You talk to guys that leave,

and they're done playing, they hang them up, and they have like a massive identity crisis, and they just, they miss the locker more than anything. Yeah. And the fact that we still get to do it, And rip around not only in the NFL, but also college as well and have all these other life experiences. And then people are like, hey, we'll give you guys more money to keep doing that. It's like, this is the fucking lottery.

We've truly won the game. So we're just kind of, I think we're going to keep doing this until we get found out. Yeah. Wait a second. We're lucky, brother. You know, hey, no, man, y'all put it in the work. It's a lot of work. You got to stay on top of everything.

You got to speak well. I don't, I don't speak well. English, you know, and all that. But if I did, I would have. I have my old podcast. I promise you that. You are always welcome on bus with the boys. Whenever you come to Nashville,

you got to actually come on the bus. Let's do it. Come on. Appreciate you. All right, yes, sir. All right, big hugs, tiny kisses. This segment is brought to you by Jack Daniels, Tennessee whiskey.

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So we had a great start for Bust with the Boys. We're already busting balls, but we have Charles Haley on the podcast. cast first player are you the only player that win five or i wait no tom yeah top one to win five he actually won to win five basically created this hybrid elephant position back in the day that you see michael parsons michael parsons michael parsons miles garrett and everybody else doing but awesome to have you on the show massive fan thank you guys man you know um i just um i came in a league at 200 the pounds, I made, I made, made it really hard for them to keep me on the bench. So they had to make up something. How big of a shock was it? Like reading up and known you grew up in a small town in

Virginia, you go to James Madison. And obviously you get drafted by San Francisco. How much of a, of a culture shock, how big of a move was it going across the country during your rookie year? You know, getting on that plane for the first time. And then, you know, when you, you know, you ain't never been on a plane and then you go all the way across and then you get there and um you know I didn't know where baggage claim none of that stuff so I asked this white guy and um he starts speaking another language and so I'm going like okay what the hell's going on then I go to access black guy he started speaking another language me I was terrified I went back to the gate hoping that plane could take me back home and then I kept hearing my damn name on the intercom come to baggage claim

And, you know, I ain't know what no baggage claim was. So I went back to the gate and John Gruden came and got me at the gate. Back then, you could walk through the airport. And, you know, because back then he was just the gopher. You know, he hasn't made it to John Gruden. Just the gopher. Yeah. Yeah, that we know of now.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He caught me down. He said, hey, you're going to be all right. We got you here. Get your bags. Get you all set up.

I don't think he talked. Yeah. No, I didn't. And so I don't know why he would talk. Yeah. How was it being in San Francisco to be? I mean, you clearly had so much success so early. But how long did it take you to get acclimated to being in a big city?

It was, that part wasn't nothing, man, because I go to work and go home. I don't care about all the other, the other part of the life. And then we would go to like Chili's or something, the rookies. then we would go eat and talk about, you know, the stress and how we're going to overcome. We were a really tight group. Yeah. How was the rookie hazing back in your day? Because for us, I came in.

Yeah, there's got to be. Yeah. I came in, you know, a certain haircut. They shaved my head. They took some guys' eyebrows off. They would saran wrap him to a pole and code red him, put mustard on them. What was the, what was back in your day? Oh, my God, man.

It was, it was, you know, it was like everybody wanted to pick on me. Yeah. And, you know, they, the office line and defense line, they picked me up and took me to a goal post. They put tape around my head and they did my hand. I didn't realize how hard it is to move your head with just a little bit of tape. And they put it, they left my ass out there for two hours. And Bill Walsh stepped out on the patio and saw. me had somebody come cut me down man I would have been out there for days they

because you know they did my feet too so um you know that was not a good day for them yeah because you know payback as hell do you get him back or the coaches getting back payback is hell now now when this is happening are you a rookie that's like going along with it like okay this is part of the process yeah because are you guys kind of fighting on the way out there but there's just too many of them so you couldn't get your hands on. Come on, bro. You got, I told you,

all the deeper of the line, they were big. So you know what? I, what I'm fighting for? I ain't gonna get away. So you're like, I'm outnumbered right now. Go ahead do your thing. Oh, you play, you play Pawsome. You went out there like, all right, fine.

Do what you didn't do. I didn't think they were gonna leave me out there. What kind of hazing did you do to the rookies that would come in? I didn't do anything. I didn't like being hazed, so I didn't pass that forward. I don't know, maybe every once in a while, when one of them might get out of hand and

somebody hold them in it, then I hit them in the ribs. Because, you know, I was hungry that day. Yeah, because they, you know, they started talking. So, you know what? I figured they want me to hit them in the ribs to shut up. Yeah, naturally. So it's hard to talk when you, when you're trying to hold that rib. Gaspin for air. Yeah.

Getting a little snack. Yeah. So, you know, but some of them were dumb and still trying to talk. And I hit the other rib and then they realized that, it ain't that party. You know, you've got to shut it up real fast. Yeah. Sounds like you didn't like to play a lot of games that way. No, I don't.

With your position, you kind of like had a hybrid position called the elephant when you first got to San Francisco. How long did it take from your rookie year to when did you start to be able to learn? Oh, I can play kind of anywhere I want on this defense and still have the same level of productivity. Because you did it so long ago and crush it. And then as recent, like you had guys like JJ Watt, Michael Parsons, Miles,

Garrett and they're all getting praised for playing a three technique and a defensive end. But you were kind of jumping all over the place on the defensive side of the ball. Yeah, you know what? It was incredible. You know, like I said, it was hard for them keep me on the bench. But I could take the nose tackle and put him out there, put them out there at the end or I had three technique, push everybody up and then I could line up on the nose. And, hey, man, it was exciting, man. It was always a new adventure for me. And, you know, those guys caught hell trying to stop me. So they always had a back or somebody swaying on me.

But I really enjoyed that part of the defense. You know, the worst thing about it is is that I had to learn the lineback position from the D-line room because the lineback coach was, you know, he was very weak-minded guy. and I think he might have been scared on me a little bit. And so I had to learn the defense, and you know, which didn't matter to me because I knew everybody the position.

I knew what everybody had to do in every play. And that helped me to play fast when you know stuff like that. You talk a lot really highly about your relationship of Ronnie Lott. What formed when you got to San Francisco that made him such a close confidant and friend of yours? He was a DOG, you know, and the other thing bothered me, I couldn't understand how he could turn that light bulb on and off like that. And I wanted to figure it out, man. And so, you know, I stayed under my, for a couple of years. And then my second year, we were doing karate, you know, with George Chong.

And then, you know, he made me on my day off go to a barbershop. And he was getting Nanking's and this kid walked over to him and said, Mr. Lai, what makes you great? He said, I play without fear, right? You know, because I had slid up on his own because I was always under Ronnie's wing. And when I heard that, that was the last time I was on his wings anymore, I realized that I need to take my game to a new level. And that's when I think I really blossomed.

Do you feel like you played with fear before you heard him tell the kid that? You know what? I don't know. But I know after that it never crossed my mind or it was never a part. It depends on some of the players I went up against. I might be a little fearful for. I know one thing. I stopped reading the program.

I read a program. The officer of linemen just lost his kid, his other kid. got Down syndrome. So I'm reading all this stuff. Man, I got my butt kicked. Hey, that was the last time I knew I offered the line the name. I know that number, that's it. But I never, I couldn't tell you who I, that name of anybody I played against because they were just a number. Before, before reading that last program for the last time, were the, who are the guys that you looked at? You're like, oh, I'm nervous about going against them before Ronnie Lott hit that awesome bar in front of that kid um i don't i don't i don't i know jackie slater hit me so hard i saw jesus christ in all three

fours you know at the hall i tell them all the time in front of my son there by the day he kicked my butt you know and um jack i know he didn't know he didn't i'm going like hey bruh as how many people in this building do i say you kick my book that they kicked my butt you and anthony Munoz Anthony, man. Man, he was a technician, and I think I beat him for a sack, man. And he's Hispanic. I never met his fan. So he was speaking in Spanish, right?

So I ain't know what the hell was going on, man. And so he made me nervous. So I go to the sideline. He made me nervous? Hey, bro, I thought the dude were losing him, man. And I go to the sideline, and I wouldn't go back in there. So Ronnie comes over, go like, what is your problem? I said, man, that's a man, this guy crazy, man.

He was talking, Ron said, that's Spanish. I said, what the hell is a Spanish, man? And, um, so Ronnie had to explain to me, man, and then I went back in, man. I was, I was very naive. You think some guys possessed. He's just talking Spanish the whole time. Yeah, I don't know what's going on, bro.

When, uh, when Ronnie went to Oakland, what do you feel like did, uh, what did that do for you, and what do you feel like it did for the locker room? For me, it destroyed my stability. Ronnie was my rock where, you know, they, nobody talked to me. They went to Ronnie. Every time I did something, they go to Ronnie.

And so, you know, I got it from somebody that I respected, whether I did good or bad. And then, you know, we said then come to a solution about it, And, you know, Ronnie was, Ronnie was a butthole because he would tell me, oh, John did this, this, so I thought that means go hit him in the mouth. So I would go hit him in the mouth, right? Then they'd go tell Ronnie, oh, he hit her in mouth.

Ronnie go like, my child, why did you do that? And then the next week she would tell me something else and I go hit somebody else in the mouth. Or, you know. You're just going over across the locker room. Somebody, you hear something. You're like, right, I know. No, no, I know.

He said, I only had pit bull with him. Ronnie, yeah, Ronnie would say something, man. And I, you know, hey, bro, we good. You know, me and fear ain't friends. Yeah. You know, hey, you know, I tell people all the time, I say, my brother's gonna beat me unmerciful and leave me out there. I said, y'all just hit me a couple of times think it's all good.

Hey, it doesn't work like that. How long were you and Ronnie together before he went to Oakland? I think five years. And my life's far out of control after that. Because, you know, I really hated George Sefer for them, put him on plan B. at the pro ball they did it to him at the pro ball and um and it really hurt Ronnie and and I felt his pain and I couldn't let it go so um but I should have known that at

at some point everybody gets traded or or cut and but I never thought it would be him was that like your first moment of realizing how much of a business the NFL was when Ronnie was traded um I didn't look at it as business I looked at the business I looked at were assholes and got rid of my best friend. I never looked at the business part of it. You know, like I said, I just, you know, Ronnie was my rock, man. And, you know, they try to put other people there to take Ronnie's fight,

but, you know, it never worked out. You had a, what sounds like a good relationship with Montana. Oh, yeah, Pinocchio. Yeah. Why, Wai Pinocchio? Huh? Why Pinocchio? You got that big nose, man.

I thought he was a liar or something like that. No, no, dog. He used to call me Bullihead, and I used to call him Pinocchio, and we'll be out at practice, and I'll jump off sides. You know, Joe be calling Cadens on this thing, and I'll jump off sides, and then Bill, I jump outside twice. Bill's off. What is your problem?

I said, well, Joe's noses across the line, and I keep jumping off because he keeps moving his nose. So everybody, everybody busts out last. happened. I know one time, you know, I came out the ball too fast and before I couldn't pull up and I hit Joe. So, you know, brother don't cry, but I watered the grass that day, doll. I won't crying, man, but some water will come to mind because I thought it was going to get cut. And then Joe go, that's a hard as you can hit like that. So he made a joke about it, man. I'm going like, thank you, Jesus. Thank you, Jesus. Thank you.

Got to stay off the quarterback, man. quarterback. But you had a, there's a story about you and Steve Young getting into it, or you ripping out an IV and going after Steve Young. Ronnie is on Oakland at the time. But the lure is that Ronnie came to de-escalate the situation. It had nothing to do with Steve Young. Me and I just wanted to beat Ronnie really bad and I lost control. And, you know, I took. I, you know, I So I went, you know, I went at some different people and I end up putting my hand through the, the wire, you know, that glass that got wire in it. Yeah.

And so I cut up all of my arm and stuff. And so I'm sitting there, no doctor, no trainer, nobody will come over there to help me, right? So they went over to the Raiders and got Ronnie to come over and calm me down. So Ronnie calmed me down and then they were working on me. Ronnie left, they left. So, you know, I was over there bleeding for a while. Oh, my God. Who went and got Ronnie, just a bunch of trainers and stuff like that?

I haven't heard of. I have no idea who went got Ronnie. Yeah. All I know is that I lost a feeling my hand for about four or five games, so I couldn't feel my hand. Yeah, so it had nothing to do with Steve? No. Nothing to do with Steve.

Did you feel some type of way when Montana, Pinocchio, your boy, and Steve comes in, there's kind of like a change in the guard taking place. Did you feel any type of way about that, quarterbacks? And in the team? Because obviously it's like Joe Montana, you guys are winning Super Bowls and Steve Young, the new guy comes. Yeah, not in a little cat. Joe got, Joe was hurt.

And Steve Young was quarterbacking. And, you know, I didn't really like Steve. And they, you know, I think Steve was the one to help put that red jersey on for quarterback because I used to go in smashing. when, you know, he was doing scout team. And so because, you know what, I didn't, I didn't like him, challenging Joe for his job.

So I just, I thought, I don't know what I was thinking. But all I know is that I protect my boys. Yeah, you sound like a person that when you find your people, you'll do whatever you can to protect them. I will. And so Montana's your guy. Steve comes in. It's just business.

There's only one quarterback position. Yeah. And you took that as, basically fuck that. I'm not going to let my guy get taken out like that. In the last three years, Steve has become a really good friend because, you know, he usually run. But now he comes and punches me.

I'm going like, man, hey, maybe we need to go back to the old school way. You know, I'm like, yeah. When I come in, you like the Red Sea, you know, you go left. I know. And I go right, you know. So, yeah, but, you know, it's great now having a chance to get to know the guy. And was there a moment in time where you and Steve obviously go back and forth when you're playing together?

Time takes place. Was there a moment where you guys kind of buried the hatchet a little bit and be like, hey, we can move on. You didn't just understand what I just said. You said a couple years ago. I said three years ago. Yeah. Three years ago. Yeah.

You didn't listen a little bit better. You know what I'm saying? I'm saying, is there a moment in the last three years? You heard me, but you didn't listen to me. Yeah. You're saying, man, sometimes things can happen. You're a smart dummy. Thank you very much.

I appreciate that. A lot of hits. Hey, how about being on the Maca Box? This is awesome. This is awesome. What do you remember? What do you remember most about the fallout and the trade from San Francisco to Dallas? What fallout?

Like, wasn't there like high temperatures when they were trading you out from San Francisco? High temperature. Yeah, like people pissed off at each other. So where they're like, we can't deal with Charles or you're like, I don't want to be here anymore? No, it was George C. made an executive decision. He couldn't, he said he couldn't take it no more. You know, I asked him to stop calling me up to his office, you know, and, like, he wanted me to be a team leader and stuff. And you know what, that's not my makeup. I'm very aggressive. And so, you know, so now you want me to go down and act like, oh, how's your kid, you know, boom, so then I realized that, you know, they didn't go think I'm a sellout. And so I told him he didn't want to listen. So, um, I think we might have had, I might have did something dumb. And he said he couldn't take it.

So they sent me home and, you know, next day I'll go up to talk to Bill because coach who was having players calling me and telling me go tell George, I'm sorry or whatever, right? That wasn't going to happen. But I did go up there. But I went to see Bill Walsh. And for the first time, I wanted some damn advice. So coach, he was at Stanford coaching.

And he sees me. He left the practice, come over there to the benches. And we sat and talked. And I said, coach, what should I do? And he said, Charles, if I tell you to stay and you're not happy, you're going to hate me. If I tell you to go and you're not happy, you're going to hate me. He said, it's time you put your big board pants on. And I'm sitting there with my head then going like, damn.

The first time I asked him, for them, for their opinion, they don't want to give it to me, you know? So, you know, I was, I didn't care at that point. I didn't know. All I knew, I had a guaranteed contract for four years, and I had three more. So I really didn't care. And then when I got traded to Dallas, I didn't know nothing about the Dallas Cowboys. And, you know, so it was a whole new experience.

Do you ever sitting where you are now? Do you ever think back about, you know, not necessarily your regrets, but coaches are an organization wanting you to be more of a team leader. Do you think about that more now, especially having kids, knowing your daughter, she's a successful soccer player. And any advice that they seek with you, do you ever in the spot you're at, think back and feel like, man, I wish I would handle some things differently? No.

No, I don't know that would regret, man. I, if people, you know, I think that, I think he heard me, but he didn't listen to me. And, you know, at some point, you got, you know, it was disrespectful, you know, because you say the same thing over and over again and people still think they can change it, then, you know, that means you're not listening. And as being disrespectful, and, you know, I left the 49th, um, dejected because I was leaving a team of the 80s, but I got a new opportunity. And it rejuvenated me to be around all those young guys, man.

I've never seen that much athleticism in my life, in my whole life. I, guys, they were dears jumping around out there, man. I'm going like, whoa. That roster you play with in Dallas was nuts. Oh, man, you don't even know. It was two number one, two number two number twos, two number three, every position, every position. Guys were like, guys out there playing hurt because they knew they won't get that job back. If, you know, if, you know, they set on the sideline, that was crazy.

Yeah, it's in the 90s, baby. That's your brand of football right there. We got a fan question here from Christopher Ruhl, and it's a very vague question, but it says, Ask Charles about the White House. Something take place at the White House? Yeah, I got to meet the president when I went to the White House. Yeah, it was great, man. You know, I've met almost all the presidents since Jimmy Carter.

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Lisa, we should tell them about our new show. Oh my God, Lexi. We have a new podcast. It's called Don't Lie to Me. I'm Lexi Iwano. We're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart. And I'm Lisa Di Giulio,

the old one, which means we have wildly different references, occasionally different opinions, and at this point in my 50s, I've lived it all. I'm not going to get anyone who's fighting. That is wild. I learned that.

about you today. Now in my 30s, being the founder of new shoes, good taste is my business. And I've always got something to say. If men were just honest about this, there would be so much more peace in the world. We're going to talk about dating, relationships, beauty, getting older, and a little wiser. We're best friends, but we don't always agree. Because you told us how accommodating you are. Obviously, I would do what I think I could do to fight the fight, but there's only so much

Fight, I can fight. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Liar. Listen on the IHeartRadio

app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I don't really care. Hi, this is Kylie Breakman. Angel Geratana. Jeremy Colhane. Patrick McDonald. And we're the hosts of the Artists on Artists on Artists Podcast.

The Improvised Character Comedy Podcast where each week a new panel of artists discuss their craft. for a panel of wellness influencers. What I try to do is faux journal. I don't know. Have you guys heard of faux journaling? Yeah, it's reading. It's called reading. So you're, so

we don't like to use that word anymore. Okay. A panel of New Yorker cartoonists. Have you guys done Terry Gross's Peloton class? No! I've been dying too. I'm so sorry. I'm seeing a reading of Sadako and the thousand paper cranes by Audra McDonald's at the

Wonderland Bookstore. 14. That's crazy. I went to the Wonderland Bookstore yesterday, and I heard Nora Jones do a reading of Zero Dark 30. No way. You have to come to the last bookstore, though. Kim Cottrell is reading the guitar tabs of yesterday. A panel of Eurovision participants. And we do a little Halloween sometimes.

Does the Pope dress up? He winks on Halloween. He gets right up next to the microphone. I hear you can almost hear the eyelashes hit each other. You never seen Italy so quiet as when the Pope gets up to wink on Halloween. Listen to artists on artists on artists on artists on artists On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Lacey Mosley, author, actor, stand-up comedian, creator, and host of Scam Goddess Podcasts. The True Crime Comedy Podcasts all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. Each week I bring on incredible guests like Conan O'Brien, Iowa Debris, Lamorne Morris, and Nicole Byer. Ooh, I scammed them. I can talk to you for an hour.

You're a generational yapper like me. That's why I had to make yankers. having a job. And the scams run the gamut. I'm talking about scams from the 1800s all the way up to today. I also warn you and keep you safe against scammers. Call your grandparents. Tell your parents to stop clicking on links, please.

And now you can catch full episodes of my show on YouTube. If there's a scam, I'm here to protect you. And I'm also here to laugh with you. So if you like fun, if you like comedy, and you like learning and protecting yourself from criminals, Start listening to Scam Goddess on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. So that's my bucket list. So, you know, it's a great experience. We got a chance to go up to the White House in June.

It was the first time I ever been there was awesome. Just being to walk in the history, all the, I use the photo of George Washington, going to be able to go to the South Lawn and go to the UFC fight. Yeah. It's incredible, man. Yeah. And, you know, Bill Clinton. And he, you know, he brought us up for Easter, me and my kids, you know, at the White House.

And then, so the first time I meet him, you know, he had just come out and said that he smoked marijuana, but he didn't inhale, right? So he comes up, and I'm in line, and he comes up and he shakes my hand, and he says something. and I go like, I'm Mr. President. I smoke marijuana. I inhale. How in the hell you didn't inhale? And he started laughing. You know, the president's kind of big, though.

He pulled me out of the line. The walls start moving me. I, you know, I yank pulling back. And my old lady kicked the shit out of me, though. So now I'm hopping on one leg. I know everybody thought I was crazy to me. I'm going like, wow. I mean, she kicked me hard, bro.

And so I went to, I went, went to LA to get my back surgery. And so I'm coming out of surgery. And the nurse goes, it's a secret service guy here. I said, well, hell, it ain't me because I was asleep. I said, I didn't do it. And the president wrote me a handwritten note, which you mean to get well.

And if any of the idiots out here that don't believe it's at the Hall of Fame, I gave it to them to put it in archives for life. That's awesome. That is awesome. I mean, we're sitting on the Madden bus right now. We're outside of the Hall of Fame. When did you know in your mind?

Did it ever cross your mind during your career that I'm going to be a Hall of Fame or someday? No, I didn't worry about it. I didn't look that far ahead. I looked at every day as an opportunity for me to do something great in a game that I love with all my heart. You know, the pain, the heartache, you know, I think that made me, it helped build my character, help build toughness and in you know commitment i tell young guys you know i just talked to the um the defense team at the cowboys and um and i told them a secret i said you know what i didn't i didn't play for charles hey i played for the guy next to you know to my left to my right and behind me

you know those are the guys i played for you know and um and you know i just feel like today's game nobody nobody does anything anymore. You know, we used to go eat, break bread together and stuff. Troy even show up, you know, and I mean, that's a lot, man. And so, you know, it's all about money now. Yeah. And they're getting a lot of it. But they're never going to where as long as, as long as they think of the individuals.

Because you can't be a team on Sunday when you, you know, all doing a week of your individuals, you know. Yeah, you need 11 guys playing as one. Yeah. What was it like for you when you finally got the knock on the door? And people said that, hey, you're going to have a gold jacket. You're going to be in the hall of fame. What emotions took over your body? Well, you know what?

Did you cry? When I got to knock on the door, open the door. And they tell me out, you know, I'm going to be a gold jacket. And, you know, my knees, you know, I stood there with David Baker as a man. And then soon as the door closed me, it's like my knees was ready to give out. And, you know, my family caught me. But it was something amazing. I think it was inhumane to do it in the hotel because you're here for five years.

I heard other people getting a knock and they're family screaming and stuff. And then I didn't get the knock. I got a phone call. So you just go across there and everybody, you know, which I hated most of them. because they go like, you should be in the hall, you should be in a, bro, if I should be in there, why isn't in there? You know, and I hate that. I hate that sympathy thing while they're smiling, going like, yeah, you know,

hey, I'm glad you didn't get in there, you know. But, yeah, I didn't, you know, now you get a knock, you go, you know, you go and get a knock on your door at home. So I think that is great, man. The excitement, you see a guy, you know, you never see the disappointment, because when you get that knock, you know, you're there. Yeah.

That's pretty unbelievable, too. I mean, small town of Virginia going to, like, no shots at James Madison. But the career that you had being in the Hall of Fame, I mean, you won, what, five world championships in eight years? Like, you had to feel like you were just on top of the world. No. I never wore my, and I don't wear my super bowl range because I never want to be satisfied. You know, most guys put that ring on and they think like, okay, I'd have made it.

I want another one. My hunger and thirst for another one drove me to, you know, a new standard of excellence. And the people around me probably didn't like me too much because I pushed, push, push, push. What we did last year is not good enough, you know, the D-line, you know, we're supposed to be out there, 45 minutes. We're out there for almost two hours. And then, you know, the coach had to come and stop. And, you know, had to stop the all-season training because, you know, because I, man, well, like, that's all we got, you know, and I kept pushing the training.

And, you know, and guys, you know what, I have to say, none of them quit. And that tells a lot about their character. And I would have quit on me, dog, at least after hour, dog, because I, you know, I'm going. I could run all day. But, you know, the thing that I found fascinating, um, I love psychotic. I like mess with people's mind. And so we were doing one-tens.

And I was, I was sprint, I was sprint, full sprint for 60-some yards. And then just kind of cruise in. And so some guys were trying to stay with me, right? And then they realized that, no, that ain't, that cup of tea ain't what they can drink, you know. And so I got to number 11. And then when I ran in, I grabbed a leg, oh, God. Like, man, about eight people pull hamstrings right there. Just from the suggestion, man.

And, you know, that's why when I learned that the power, power of suggestion is strong, that a lot of people that you think are strong and you can make a suggestion and they'll react to it in a negative way. Do you ever wear the rings now? Yeah. See, I was going to ask that question, but I was scared of like, if you fight hearing, not listening again. What am I wearing them for?

You want them. Hey. Hey, you did it. No, I just gave you the answer, man. Hey, I'm not stuck. You know what? Hold on now. I'm a very broken man.

You know, I had, you know, I was a man depressing bipolar. And, you know, I did a lot of dumb stuff, man. And I heard a lot of people feelings. And, you know, it's, you know, even now guys come. up and and say, and thank me and say, hey, thank you for helping me and teaching me this and that. And, you know, it's, it's gratifying, you know, I think about three years ago, Jerry Jones told me thank you for winning a Super Bowl. And then he took a picture of me, right?

And I go like, oh, you know, I was going to let him make it, but then I couldn't do it. I said, oh, it took you 20 years to say it. He said, what are you talking about? He said, what are you talking about? Every time I got on radio or television, I said, we couldn't spell Super Bowl without Charles Haley. I said, oh, that's easy to get in front of a camera set, but you ain't say it to me, right? And, you know, so, and then I got a chance to ask Jimmy for forgiveness because we had the same

goals but I just didn't like the way he went at it because as a coach I you know from the 49 coaches then then go-ed players or demean them you have captains to do that and so it took me a while to figure that out you know he's coming from Miami you know he had his way of doing things and I just I didn't appreciate it but we both both did the same way. I was an asshole just like he was, man. But I just thought as a player, iron shop and iron. Yeah. Yeah. How much influence you feel like you had on Emmett Smith, him breaking his holdout when you guys started O and 2? You guys like the only team to start O and 2 and then win a Super Bowl? Oh, I don't know. He just thought he thanked me for doing that

probably about 15 years ago, Doug. But he taught me something too that day because I didn't let him make it. He goes like, man, you know, you won't let anybody be your friend because, you know, always attack before I get attacked. And so, you know, I listened to that. And then after that, I let that guard down and was able to, I was able to, I was. to allow people to communicate with me without me getting angry.

Yeah, because it wasn't the lawyers. You guys come in after going O and 2 and you slam your helmet and you're like, it's next to Jerry Jones? Is that how that went? I threw the helmet. I didn't know Jerry was over there, but I was saying some things.

And sometimes I just lose control. And I threw it. Thank God I didn't hit him because I would have been on that bus. I probably would have been in handcuffs first, and then I'd have been on that bus, not going home, but going to jail. I got my notes here that,

obviously being a GMU alum, you're big on the G5 being in the college football playoff. You still stand by that? What? G5 football team. You a college football guy? No. No, he's not a college football guy.

What does that mean? G5. Yeah, G5 is James Madison. You guys are part of the G5. The G5 has one team that goes to the college football. playoff every year to go against the powerful conferences. Oh, okay. So I stance is no.

Well, you know what, JMU has grown, man. You go, I go there, go back. Oh man, the campus is so beautiful. If you come in there as a recruit, you know, it, you know, my God, man, it's like, like being, you know, the fields that, you know, they got, they got, you know, they got parks. on campus and stuff, man. It is so gorgeous.

Athletes getting paid now? Huh? Athletes, the athletes are getting paid now. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'm pissed about that, dog. I should be getting paid, man. I'm waiting for somebody to do a lawsuit, man, for the first of old guys, man, you know?

Shoot. Most of these guys suck and they get paid a lot, you know? Yeah. The money is crazy. The guys that aren't, you know, even, I think guys that just make the team in general are making like $50,000 in these bigger schools. Yeah, you know what?

Most of them come in and make, taking a pay cut. Yeah. That happened with Shadur Sanders. Yeah. That's just a lot of those guys going from you're making a million dollars to then you're getting the whatever the league minimum is now. But yeah.

You ever look at what the guys are making now and just get sick to your stomach? No. All right. The past rush. It's a good question. If you know, Charles Haley, he'd be getting it. What is Mike and them even getting now? Who?

Mika. Micah Parsons. Oh, they're 150, 144. Yeah. They're insane contracts. Yeah. What was your rookie contract? 60,000 signing and 70,000 bait.

Man, that is nuts. How much the NFL is grown? I know, it's inflation, brother. That's what that is. Four years 186. Four years 186, Michael Parsons. And? Listen, there's a lot of money out there.

If that's what's going now, that's what's going there. I'm not going to be envious of somebody else. I just think, you know, he had to do something to get that money, you know. So I'm just, I'm excited for him. I like the guy, man. I think that he's one hell of a great athlete. Do you still watch a lot of football, a lot of NFL stuff? No.

All right, fair enough. There was my last question. Do you ever peek around the pass rushers that you feel like have that DOG in them? No. The game is chained, man. They throw in the ball 60, 70% of them. at a time, man. And they're getting blocked one-on-one. Jesus Christ, I wish that would have happened. The reason why my career got, you know, the back's hitting my hip, you know, I'm getting,

you know, they slide, I'm in, they brought hell to my door and, you know what, and hell was there waiting on them, too. You're, you're kids that were athletes growing up, how much is they ever want to talk about? you and your playing days and pick your brain about advice. I never. No, they want to, they never, you know, it's like I try to teach them stuff and that coach, they want to do what that coach said and coach ain't never did nothing in our lives and instead of listening to what I say, you know, and yeah.

Yeah, my youngest daughter probably is the only one that ever listens and I talk to her a lot. She's, you know, she's playing professional. at Brighton in England. And I tell her how longevity work is, you know, it's simple, you know, endurance. And then, you know, you got to do great ab work because when somebody hit you and, you know, they try to knock the breath out of you, then it takes a while to, you know, get that momentum back.

And so she listens and she's been rewarded for it. And she has that dog that was in me. I see that in her. That's got to make you smile, too. How often do you get out and go see a game of hers? I go about three times a year. Man, I hate that journey, man. And that food sucks, man.

God, Jesus Christ. The first time I went, man, I had diarrhea for days. I was going like, God, man. Nobody cooked anything well, man. It was, y'all, y'all white guys like, because y'all like raw. I'm from the South. I'm from the South, man.

I like it cooked all the way, you know. What is their go-to over there? It is fish. It is broil everything. It's all boiled. And most of it is, I think, Asian food. In London? Asian food's nice.

What are you talking about, Charles? Asian food's nice. Brough. I want some chicken. Fried chicken. They're fries and brown chicken. I like chicken. General South.

Huh? General South's chicken. Orange chicken? It's all fried. Fried delicious. Hey, brough. No. Give me...

Jaws, give me your number one meal. Like, if you could have, like, best day of your life, let's have a Sunday night dinner. What is the one thing you want to eat? Chicken, corn, and, like, asparagus. What kind of chicken we have it? It depends on whether I'm trying to lose weight.

Otherwise, if I'm trying to... Tows don't count. Friar chicken. Fire chicken. And, you know, I used to like mashed potatoes. I don't. So I do vegetables, corn, and green beans or asparagus. Yeah.

What happened to mashed potatoes? What happened with that fallout? What would they do to you? No, I eat mashed potatoes my whole life, though. And I just, there more than the more. I eat sweet potato. You're talking about it's a drug? I did that for the whole life.

I just had to stop doing it. In the country, they put lime on it and put it up on in the house, mashed potatoes and then you eat that year-round. And so, you know, we had chicken every day. And then we had wish to, we wish we knew what was in it. But it was good. Whatever it was, it was good. You want to be LQ?

Yeah, we're on the same page. Charles, we get a Bud Light question. for you. You know how people would do anything for an ice cold, bud light. What is something that you would do anything for? Can't say family. That would do anything for? Yeah, what would you do anything for nowadays? If you want some examples, we'll give you some examples. No, I didn't ask you for example.

Okay, I was just trying to help. No, hey, I'll ask you for help if I needed. You got it, absolutely. I'll say, at this time, my life, it's about giving back and it's about helping people understand what mental illness is. So that would be my thing. It's letting go some of the pain I have and helping somebody else get through it. And that would be the biggest thing.

Beautifully said. Dude, Charles, honestly, really appreciate you for coming on. It was an honor having you on. I thought I was supposed to be here for an hour, man. We look like we've been here for days, bruh. On his bus, hey, this ain't John Badd Butts for real, is it? Yeah. That's what they said.

They said he used to sleep on that bed. There's a photo of him right behind JP right there. Oh, okay. I remember I came on his bus a lot, man. When I was playing and we just said Dan talked, he was, hey, he's the best commentator ever, man. He broke football. He made football simple. Yeah.

Do you have your favorite Madden story? Hey, man, I love John. I don't have a favorite or he, man, I just, you know, he loved football. Jesus Christ. And, you know, he sat there, that laugh that he had is contagious. And, you know, I like being around him. And, you know, I hate that he passed because we lost a great one. rest of these guys, man, that do commentating, you know, I don't listen to him, man, because

they act like they know everything, you know, and, you know, if you coach, you were the head coach and then you're able to break things down and make it simple, you know, he makes it simple for anybody that, that want to watch football, women, kids, whatever, it was just, you know, and I just loved it, man, he had fun, and then all the food. Oh, God, he loved looking at food in that pocket lot, bro. So there's no commentators you like now? Because you do have a former teammate, the one that would show up to the cookouts, the parties. Who?

Troy Eggman. I didn't know Troy could talk, man. Hey, when we played me, all I heard him go, you know, call the cadence out and stuff. And then, you know, I always thought he was dumb, man, because the training. He was right across from the training room, and I'm, he's on the front looking at training room, and I'm on the other side, man. And every game, every game, I like telling jokes. So every game, I'll be over there coming up with new jokes, and he will swallow his,

the chew he had, he has to run into the bathroom, though. I'm going, like, after the second time, bro, you, when I started, you're supposed to split that stuff out, doc. So I used to, I used to get on, then pitch a day. Oh, my God, man, pitch a day was the best day. of the year because everybody had jokes. And, you know, it was just, and then Troy would be down there. He started laughing, choking, and, you know, hey, he's been a really great friend.

And I love him. And, you know, I had some really great teammates that, especially, like I said, at the Cowboys, I let my guard down became a leader. and I made people my friends where at the 49th, it was pretty much Ronnie and a couple other guys and everybody else, you know, I didn't care about. Yeah. And then I got to share the way.

And then you got to go on the Troy Talk. Yeah, it's over, guys, man. I ain't getting paid enough to keep talking. We were thinking the same thing. You're not getting paid enough. Absolutely. Hey, y'all appreciate you. All right.

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We're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart. And I'm Lisa Di Giulio, the old one, which means we have wildly different references, occasionally different opinions. and at this point in my 50s, I've lived it all. Now in my 30s, being the founder of new shoes, good taste is my business. Listen on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Lacey Mosley, author, actor, stand-up comedian, creator,

and host of Scam Goddess Podcast. The True Crime Comedy Podcasts, all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. Each week, I bring on an amazing guest. Ooh, I scammed them. What? I can talk to you for an hour. You're a generational yapper.

like me. That's why I had to make yapping a job. And now you can catch full episodes of my show on YouTube. Start listening to Scam Goddess on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Scam Goddess! Hi, this is Kylie Breakman. Angel Geratana. Jeremy Colhane.

Patrick McDonald. And we're the hosts of the Artists on Artists on Artists on Artists Podcast. The Improvised Character Comedy Podcast where each week a new panel of artists discuss their craft. Join us for a panel of Eurovision participants. And we do a little Halloween sometimes. Does the Pope dress up? He winks on Halloween. It's right up next to the microphone.

I hear you can almost hear the eyelashes hit each other. You never seen Italy so quiet as when the Pope gets up to wink on Halloween. Listen to Artists on Artists on Artists every Thursday on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Alec Baldwin. This season on my podcast, Here's the Thing, I talk to actor Stephen Root. I'm a people watcher. You see that guy going down the dream, though. Yeah, I can use that.

And Open Igloo co-founder, Alia Mohamed. I love staying on top of what is going on in our city, what is on renter's minds, and taking all of that knowledge to build a platform that hopefully is going to make New York City better in the long run. Listen to Here's the Thing on the IHeart Radio app Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Podcasts.