Bussin' With The Boys - Robert Gallery Shares The Mental Toll Of Football & Healing After NFL Career With Raiders | Bussin'

Episode Date: November 18, 2025

Recorded: November 17th 2025 Will Compton and Taylor Lewan welcome on Robert Gallery, former No. 2 overall pick and Iowa legend, who joins the show for a raw, emotional, and deeply honest interview. He talks about growing up as a Big Ten boy, his recruiting journey, and the moment he realized the NFL was actually possible. From his Draft and Combine experience to stories about Kirk Ferentz, Warren Sapp, and JaMarcus Russell, Robert paints a full picture of life in the league during his career with Raiders. But where this episode truly hits different is when Robert opens up about the mental health battles he faced while playing. He shares what led to his retirement, the moment he hit rock bottom, and how he eventually found the strength to start helping himself. Robert walks The Boys through his Ibogaine experience, DMT trip, and the long journey toward healing his brain, rebuilding his marriage, and finding purpose through the Vet Solutions Foundation. Big Hugs, Tiny Kisses!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

All right, we're good. Be like a busing with the boys. I'm hanging with the fed. Betting on a game. He's going to tell us what you do. And I just drinking beer and making national... Busing with the boys. Bro.

Welcome to another episode of Bustin with the Boys. If you are in the car right now listening, please make sure that you are subscribed to our channels whether listening on Spotify, Apple, Amazon, on audio. Make sure you're following or subscribed. And if you're watching the boys on YouTube right now, just again, we encourage you to subscribe. It helps the boys out a lot.

We've got a lot to talk about. We got a lot to talk about. We have an awesome interview with Robert Gallery. Awesome interview. Yeah, his journey, mental health, all the stuff. It is very much worth your two and a half hours of time. We'll be breaking down our weekends, having some fun with some spicy road tier talk,

best compliments to your wife, some final bites before we sign off and get into the interview. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts.

We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Hey, it's Edwin Castro, also known as Castro 1021. And I'm Kunky, his best friend and business manager. And we've got a new show called The 1021 podcast.

I'm taking you behind the scenes on how I became one of Twitch's most popular streamers. We also love sports. And with the World Cup right around the corner, we'll be breaking down the biggest storylines ahead of the big tournament here in the USA. Listen to the 1021. podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This episode is brought to us and presented by the Fandil Sportsbook, America's number one sports book.

We got week 12, Bills versus Texans, and we'll be watching the game live from our stream room. We'll have a same game parlay for you guys to tail. We'll have a nice little giveaway for you guys, courtesy of Fandall who will also have a 30% profit boost token available for this Thursday's game. that is right a 30% PBT for all customers who to use on their bills versus Texans bets will cook up some bets for you guys to tail. You can cook some up on your own

and tell us about them on the stream or in the comments, but make sure you are using that 30% profit boost token. Go to fandle.com slash busing to start locking your picks now. Gentlemen, we have a good weekend. We have a fun little weekend. Yeah, I was in New Orleans. How was Nola?

I just feel it was cool. I was visiting one of my buddies I used to live here, but I got just going back. I didn't get sick, but I had like PTSD from you guys being sick. So I was like, this place is just kind of like. Stayed away from the oysters.

Yeah, just try to eat like the most bland food. I mean, I have a very bland diet to begin with. Did you get chicken fingers and fries? Basically, yeah. But it was just like, I'm just uncomfortable in that city

brought my own PB and Jopies I'm just uncomfortable in that city It was crazy It was great to see Like I saw some old buddy So it was a lot of fun Is Nola the best dirtiest city in the US It's so dirty

The dirtiest Yeah number one dirtiest city in the US I'd have to say New Orleans It's definitely had like the biggest And the most recognition I feel like um the dirty boys Broadway can be considered pretty dirty I wouldn't even put those in the same

No yeah Broadway's a street Nashville's a clean city There's like a smell everywhere There's a fragrance. Yeah, it's, ugh. The most popular dirtiest city. Yeah, because you can throw like a Portland in there, but like I'm, I have no desire to go to Portland, but, you know.

How's St. Louis? St. Louis is clean. It's got some dirty parts. But, yeah, for the most part, I wouldn't say St. Louis is close to New Orleans. Philly's pretty dirty. Philly seems like a dirty little city. It's just gritty. Like, I feel like Philly's just more gritty than it is dirty, if that makes sense.

Yeah. A lot of grit and fighter mentality there. I'd probably give the nod to New Orleans. Dirtiest destination city in the world. Yeah. The heat really keeps it. Yeah. Nice and dirty.

The weather down there was actually pretty good. It was like 75, 80, but it wasn't humid at all, so it felt really good. Oh, that's nice. That's nice. Would you do anything special this weekend? Yeah, we celebrated a little Scotty Jolie, turn one. She turned one last Wednesday. November 12th.

Yeah, November 12th. She turned one last Wednesday. We had my dad in town with Stephanie. We have my brothers in town with their significant others. Cody, by the way, Cody just got engaged. My brother, so have a sister-in-law. And then, yeah, Charles' parents came over. So it was a very rare moment to have the grandparents, the brothers, everybody kind of like all in town.

Nice little dynamic. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Wyatt is on the clock. Wyatt's on the clock. Yeah. I was asking, too. What did you think of doing? Did his girl come?

White's? For the trip, yeah. Yeah, Morgan. What did y'all have on the menu? Sharkooterie board. Oh, a chawboard, dude. Some cookies, a smash cake. What's a smash cake?

Oh, it's a smash and eat with your hands apparently. Oh, literally. Yeah. That's a one-year-old's book. Scott, he was very weary of the smash cake. She didn't really, we were trying to, like, put the frosting and stuff in her mouth to taste it, but she didn't care about the smash cake. She wanted the rich crackers that were close by.

Good looks. Yeah. It's strong. Yeah. I know I've talked about this quite a bit on this show, but the addiction my oldest child has to sugar needs to be studied. She is so obsessed with it. And we try to keep her away from sugar for the first three years

was pretty good about it. And I think it just it just harbored everything because it is insane to watch that child. Menace right now. She's a menace about it. She's a menace. Great kid. Outstanding individual.

But it's like it's crack. Sugar is crack to that child. She's too old for you to throw. I don't know if there's like these like hacks where you can like put an ingredient on candy, like whether it's like a vinegar substance where like she would have a bad reaction. So she's like, I don't like candy anymore. That's it. That's a yeah, she's too old for that. She's too low. Set her up. She's too quick. Yeah, yeah. She's yeah. She's too aware of what's kind of going on right now. Oh, win rebel, dude. Uh, my weekend. I mean, dude, 48 hours. We flew Wednesday,

flew to New York, flew back Thursday morning, spent lunch with my family, flew to Arizona, Thursday night, I had to handle a little something, something over there. But after I handled that something, something, me, Tanner, his wife's kids, Jack and Scotland, which by the way, I have no idea what I did to those kids. I'm their favorite person in the entire world. I'm their favorite person. How old are they? Scotland is six, five or six, and then Jack is in that three, four category.

But they're just, they stayed up late to see me. me. Yeah. And like we play like they had a ball and it's just like it's just it's the power of yes with them dude. You say yes, you play with them. They do things that their parents get mad about but I'm just like hey we can kind of do whatever around here right? You have the look of if I was ages four to nine I would be like yo this guy is the coolest person to ever exist. Let's go. He's taller than everyone. He has tattoos and you just never know what's going to come from. Gives. Gives great high fives. Yeah. Oh yeah. And you just got to find like with the younger the kids especially when starting to get out of the age where i'm like oh i got to actually be cool

for her too so that's a taking time bomb for us but everybody under like the age of eight i do i find one thing that they're obsessed with and i just beat that shit into the ground with ru it's the high five oh it's high five yeah it's high five with scotland uh tanner's uh daughter stepdaughter it's carwheels me and her trying to watch me do the splits if i tried the splits in front of her she thinks it's the funniest thing in the world and jack's just a homie bro little jack he's awesome me sit there and be like man i kind want a boy yeah kind of want a boy's a little psycho but we did that we go to zips ma'am oh yeah sir photo look like it was it was the best i've had wow it was the best i have ever zips just continues to exceed expectations it continued it just keeps on dude just when you think like

we've had enough of it i'm sure it's gonna not taste as good this time it is i go not that thing out i'm in a full suit and uh it's tanner's sister valentina her kid madeline's there with both her kids and Tanner was doing this like charity golfing. I don't think there's something that does more charity work than Tanner. I don't know if he ever actually raises money, but he's always on like a hunt or a golf thing or whatever, but he's always doing that. I get to Zips.

Waiter comes by. We exchange pleasantries about our mustaches. He's got one. I compliment him. He gives it back and I said, yeah, I was actually fishing for one, so thank you. And then I give him the whole spiel. Buddy, I don't live here anymore, but I used to live here. This is what I need.

If you could just say, make it with love to the chef, that'd be incredible. And he really did it. he truly did and it was you gotta go back buddy it's so fucking good it's so good and my foot was starting to feel a little bit better so I treated myself a little bit

as he said honey he's got the bro get the boot on yeah this foot man get back Friday put the I'm like hey I've been traveling so much I'm like hey the next two days like put your foot up and just rest your foot like we have to figure out

what the hell's going on with this thing so I rested for a couple of days Sunday night my daughter has a rehearsal or not a rehearsal like I don't know, this little thing, she started a band with two other girls and they wrote their own song and this lady helped them write songs,

the ladies paying the piano and the ukulele while these kids are like going back on four scene. Not bad, I will say. They are not, that's not a bad club there. After that, we go to Hugh Babies and I'm starting to feel like, okay, I can actually walk. I can't like press off my foot,

but I'm like walking without a limp. And I'm like, a little milkshake kind of sound nice right now. Hugh Babies too. Once again, just falling into the trap that got me in the situation again. and buddy i woke up this morning at 3 a.m. Foot ballooned up go to stand up to take a piss and it's just fucking hell it is just hell

I've lost 13 pounds i am i am prey i am i am not i at one point in time boys i was a highly successful pro bowl football player possibly arguably the best tackle in the NFL now i am just less than i am pray you're show yourself I'm a shell of myself. If a large gust of wind takes off when I'm outside, I might fly away. Having worked out in three weeks, I look at my body,

I'm just like, what the fuck is this? I look at the mirror, I'm just like, what are you doing here, huh? You're just oozing away. And I am, dude, I am getting to the point where I'm just, I'm just always in pain. I'm always in pain now. And it just sucks.

And it won't go away. And I can't fix it. I've been on pain pills for like 12 days straight. That's like kind of time. tight because you gotta feel kind of nice at certain times. But other times, like, I've been through this game before. The come down is horrible.

My personality's like, how do we get more? And so I'm just like fighting the good fight. And I don't like where I'm at right now. November 2025. I don't like where I'm at. You got one week to get it together. Buddy. Yeah. I'm in the movie Saw.

I'm in the movie 127 hours and there's a knife staring at me right now. And I'm like, do I just cut my foot off? It might be better. then what is happening right now? It is awful, bro. It's awful. And it sucks too and we're like, oh, Taylor, oh no.

What happened to your foot? You're in a boot. And I have to go, I had gout, no, I don't have gout, but I think I had gout and I rolled out of my foot and then I had my tore, look at my foot. I don't even know if I actually tore it

looking at my foot. I'm just like kind of sitting there be like, they think this, so I'm just going to say it like that so it looked like less of a bitch. There was a time, dude, when you would have a boot on after a football game.

And it was low key a badge of honor. Like, yeah, I played through it. I think about junior year in Michigan State, had a high ankle sprain and a broken hand. And I was at the bar, at Rick's American Cafe, slugging beers in a boot and a cast on my wrist. And there was a piece of me that's like,

you fucking earned this beer. And what are you're going to do next week? You're going to play. Now I'm 34. And my kids are like chomping at the bit, being like, hey, dad, play with us. If you could play Bergen with us, just go on your knees.

And I'm like, I just truly, I can't do it. And I'm on the couch. I'm withering away. I'm slowly to tear. I take so much pride, dude, on taking care of my body because I've taken so many shots in the head and I played so recklessly in football. I know there's a vegetative state in my future

and so I just try to stay ahead of the chains. And here I am with a fucking boot on, man. You're already there. Damn. Mitch, a vegetative state is somebody that's in the hospital can't, like, non-responsive. I didn't mean to say you're already, your icensurate.

It's accelerating. Yeah, it's accelerating. And I like to think I am very conscious about my health. What I eat, how I train, like stay ahead of the chains, cold tubs,

hot tubs, saunas, get a little NID every once in a while. Like, it's crazy to think a milkshake can take you out. Bro. Damn.

Like that's where you are, man. I know, dude. I know. And it's like, everything you just said hurt. But it's like,

what am I mad about? Because there's truth. And that's what sucks. I think you see how far you can go. No, dude, let me tell you something. No. Like I, like you guys had gout? Has anybody here had gout? My buddy, I'm not. He had it when we were at the beach one time.

And how what did he say? I honestly didn't take it seriously. Because when your buddy's hurt, you're like, thank God I'm not hurt. Yeah, you're being a bitch. I know, but then I'm hearing it from you and I'm like, maybe I should have taken him more seriously. Dude, people in the comments. Maybe it should add some more empathy with it.

People in the comments who are listening this right now. If you've had gout, please explain to these boys what it's like. People are people are. I've been seeing people. Oh, there's a lot of sympathize. Put their arm around. I thought it was like a World War II disease when I was first heard about it.

Dude, it is literally, it's the people call it the King's disease. Like in medieval times, that's legit how it looks, by the way, except for the dude's left foot is crazy as well. You should drop a feet pick for the people. Dude, in medieval times, kings and like higher end people

in these worlds would get them because they wouldn't exercise. They eat red meat all the time. And so it was literally like a distinguished disease. It was called the King's, disease and I fucking hate it man I literally I feel so defeated I feel so defeated right now and I just don't I don't want to be the guy that's on an antibiotic every day wake up with my fucking Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday pills and I have to open it up

take it out and take that and if I don't take it then I get sick or whatever that's the start of the end like how do I fix this how do I get it right I've worked so hard and I know this is listen boys you guys don't deserve me just fucking vomiting on you guys right now, but give me some time here. I have worked so hard since my football career's ended of trying to get my gut health back in order because of all the steroid packs and all the pills and all the things, the, the, the, the tortals shots over and over and over again. I've done, I've tried so hard to fix those things.

I've taken a steroid pack in the last couple weeks. I'm on, uh, it's this uric acid thing right now. I'm taking tram at all. And I'm just looking at myself like, bro, you're going to fuck your gut up again. If not, it's already fucked up. And it sucks. onward. Somebody else tell me something bad

that's happened to them recently. J.P. I'll say this. Yeah, I mean, back's not all the way there, but I'll say this since 8.30 this morning I've had 12 missed calls from spammers. Like there's an epidemic right now by spam callers. And I don't know what to do. I just got one two minutes ago. And I've had four since I've been on this bus.

I've blocked like 40 numbers and they just keep coming, bro. I feel better that you're getting them. But all weekend, I legitimately probably got 30 plus spam calls. messages galore and I'm like did I enroll in something where they ship my number out? It is so frustrating. God. The problem is too

is if I heard if you ignore it it's actually better than blocking it because if you block it they know that's an active number so they go and send it off to other places. I heard. Good intel. I heard. Something to think about but hey thank you. I know you guys are dealing with a lot now too and I didn't want this whole podcast. It is annoying bro. Yeah I bet I bet it sucks, yeah? Yeah, it's probably the worst thing going on right now for people.

For sure. Besides gout. Yeah. I mean, having to ignore my phone and put them on silence, send them to voicemail. Yeah. Right before the holidays. Right before the holidays. Yeah.

It's frustrating, man. It's annoying. Yeah. But yeah, that's probably the worst thing going on right now that I'm dealing with. I think, Scottie could be, is there such thing as like a 12-month sleep regression? Well, yeah, we'll talk about it There's always some sleep progression Yeah

So like six times trying to You know just quiet her down Calm her down Like dude why are you yelling bro Like get with your shit Right Figure it the fuck out then How far away is she from talking

When do kids start talking She should be getting going She gets a dad da Yeah Gaga Lady Gaga Lady Gaga Big fan of her

She can go She can do the snake noise So seems like we're close she's fluent dude willow was talking quick like if I had

Willow first and then win second I'd be looking at what's going on here but because I had a win that Willow was just like kind of they were always around each other

started talking real fast start walking real fast it's dope that you got Scott into one though I feel like this year's flown by for y'all it's a celebration for parents man

get the kid to survive for a year yeah you've made it yeah like at this point it's on them yeah you just got she can walk now

Yeah. Times are paying some bills. Make a sandwich, dude. Get a job. Those types of things. But yeah, dude, gout. And fucking. Still goutful.

I'm still goutful. And it's just like, I just want to feel good, dude. I just want to feel good. Have I not earned that? And then Jared's dumbass. He goes, I walk in and I'm like, hey guys, I'm in such a bad mood today that actually I'm in a good mood. Like, it's reversed me.

And Jared goes, isn't there like a super rich hospital you can go to that fixes it? I go, Jared. Would you think there's like some sort of aluminum, like cloaked group of people? I just go drink some child's blood and all of a sudden he gets fixed? Because if there is, point me in that direction, dude. I need to fix this.

In his mind, though, he legitimately believes there is that hospital out there. No doubt. He said he said that to you and then he was still standing ten toes on it. It's like, there is one. Jared and I, man, we've had a little bit of, we've had a back and forth the last week or so.

There's got to be something out there. There's got to be, man. There has to be. Somebody has an Illuminati type of crew that is interested in having me be a part of it and I am the most vulnerable I could be right now. It exists for sure. I gotta believe like Brad Pitt.

Bro, how's Brad Pitt looked that good? That's what I'm saying. I took a little selfie video this morning like a victory. Hey, Victory Monday. Got myself a black coffee, Michigan hats, they're on sale ball, all that thing. I'm looking at myself in the selfie video thing

and I'm like, look how old you look, dude. You haven't slept eight hours in three weeks. Like a full eight hours. You look good. You look good. Buddy, I feel. to give you some optimism. Thank you.

I feel like shit, though. Slowly withered away. You cannot cure gout. You can. You can. Not yet, bro. Not yet. You could be the first.

Can you go back to that? Jack? Click off that. You're on the Yurik acid. Are you staying hydrated? I could use more. Let's get some more high purine foods in your diet. What is a, what is purine?

What is that? Who knows? Sounds like dog food. Purina. Taylorin says it to me the other day. She goes, have you been drinking more? type of water. She's like,

if someone does a cangan water, the alkalized ball, they said they had a gout and then it went away. And I'm like, dude, I'm all about

unique styles of health and wellness. I'm begging the juices and the tumurics and all that stuff. But my mental headspace where I'm at, I'm thinking,

what the fuck are you talking about, dude? What, water? Yeah, microplastics. We've crossed the line with waters. There's way too many waters

that exist now. Too many waters. That means, I would love to get a kank and water system in my house, but I need it. I need it. You could probably get it. Probably. Just point me in the dirt from that Luminati crew. And I'll get that done.

It says best foods for gout. Cherries and vitamin C, coffee, skin milk, water. Okay. Good. I'll lose 13 more pounds in the next week. Get you some cherries, man. Yeah, I do. I used to take tart cherry pills.

And I've recently just reordered it. But it's like I haven't had meat or like red meat in three weeks, two weeks, whatever it is. I just don't understand. I don't understand, man. Yeah. I don't understand. You'll get there. You think so?

Yeah. Like this can't be the most of my life. Don't. Because you've had a few situations just with your foot because I want to say you had something going on even when you were playing. On that last year, your foot was like bothering. That was my first bout of gout. Yeah.

So it's, when was the last, how long ago was that? A couple years? This is my third season, not playing football. Yeah. So three years ago, you've had some episodes. And as somebody, too, like you take care of yourself as much as anybody. So knowing that it's like a diet type thing. it's very surprising.

I know. Here's what I have to do, dude. I truly have to understand that my life of eating junk food it has to be over in order to be happy. And that sucks because I have to reroute my brain. Like Thanksgiving's right around the corner.

I'm terrified. I'm terrified of our Thanksgiving day. It was one day. Dude, it was one day yesterday. Dude, I'm not joking Mitch. I was on the ups. I was like, oh, I might not wear a boot to work tomorrow. I might be, I might put my chucks back on.

I might put my vans back on. on that's how good I was feeling I'm out there playing air hockey with my youngest thumbeter but like we're getting we're getting after having a good time and bro do you think your those shoes are could be a contribute the shoes could be a factor that's a structural thing though but I've been due to my whole life like my half flat feet it's not like I need arch support I have no arch in my foot I have no arch yeah and little flippers bro will loves talking about my thumbs and my feet bro yeah shoes are a significant factor Fuck!

Dude, no! You might have to get some, like, hokos or something. Yeah, bro. The moon shoes. Get some old guy's shoes, man. Them clouds start walking. Yeah, get some monarchs. I remember, dude, I remember being at Michigan and the trainers.

I was having foot pain because I was wearing Adida shoes. I didn't know it at the time. But my freshman year of college football, they're like, hey, I think the problem is you're wearing vans all the time. Like, you shouldn't be wearing vans. You need something with more art support. And I think I was like, I'd rather kill myself, basically, then not wear vans. And here I am, dude, 34 years old.

And I have to, like you're telling me, I can't wear the number one thing I associate myself with as far as like clothing goes. Would you rather stick with vans and still have foot issues or have to change up your style? Bro, it sounds like I'd rather change up my style. I can't live like this, dude. I cannot live like this.

You have your answer. Thanks, Mitch. I know. I'm sorry, man. That's not on you, man. No, it's okay. We were talking earlier. But you called me a vegetable like five minutes ago.

You're already there. I phrased that wrong. I said it's getting closer. But what we were saying earlier this morning, it's like you're in such a bad mood that it's almost like. Yeah. It's like almost actually, it's funny to me where I'm at.

Yeah. But like we're just no, just know we're all on your side. If you need anything, let us know. No one's supporting gout here. Right. Yeah. are you guys run my team and that actually really means a lot because I feel so alone right now dude

I'm fighting this fire so alone right yeah yeah it's awful should we get into some uh spicy roteer talk some best compliments to give your significant other nothing transitions better from gout than that so yeah let's do it well maybe some optimism you know throw out of the gout conversations so that way you're not just feeling bad the whole time let's get out of there we're gonna make make our own together like we're all going to think tank this one yeah I think we can we can all throw stuff out there. I think you look gorgeous. That could be on the list, right, tier three?

Yeah, well, here's. I think three that come to my mind. Oh, go ahead. You look stunning. You look gorgeous. But here, I like those. This is where I think it takes it a step above. Like you're in a regular conversation.

Like you get home from work. And, May, how was your day? And she just starts talking like, hey, by the way, you look outstanding today. Like, you look really good. And then she's like, kind of like throwing back up. She goes, really? You're like, yeah.

Like, why would I just say that? Yeah. Smooth. That to me is. With operation. It happens like five times a week in my house. I like looking at Char and be like, that ass is looking right. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'll have the only, like, that thing looks crazy back there. And I don't know if she likes it, but in my mind, I'm thinking this is a huge compliment. Like, she'll be, you know, I might be coming down from putting Rue or Scotty down. She might be finishing up in the kitchen.

I'll just like walk up. Say she's at the sink. I'll just walk up behind her and just whisper in her. You're like, I need that. Yeah. Yeah. And then they do a little dry hump. Yeah, we'll just press it on her real quick.

Put it on her head. Yeah, she'll be brush her teeth. Something with a zero sensation for them at all, like the right cheek. Yeah. If I catch her, like putting a dish in the dishwasher, like brushing her teeth, I'll just walk up behind, grab her hips and kind of dry hump her a couple times. Dude. Yeah.

We'll about to have a mug shot out there. For real. Dude. Hey, to the merry man, you guys don't, you guys don't, you know, spontaneously dry hump your wife every now and then? No. Not. Not, no. That's crazy.

That's crazy. You don't do that too. I do, dude, like the, you know in high school when like you are cuddling with a girl whatever and you're clearly hard as a rock, clearly. And like you think this is a good idea for me to press my hips and do them as much as possible so they know, like the options there if you want it. I still love doing that. I still love being to cuddle and just be kind of chubbed up and just be like,

fucking. Fucking. And it's got to be so annoying to them. I'm just fucking. But what's the compliment you're giving her while you're doing it? Yeah, you got you you do this. He's given nine years married. Taylor night nine years married, still fucking God, dude.

You still grow, you still. Give me that. What sucks about this show is I know that Taylor's grandfather, Taylor, Taylor's dad, he listens to the show. Like Chuck listens to show religiously, so Chuck,

I like to apologize. But I do do that. So is that like a compliment you give, that you still got it? Yeah, that's a body language compliment. Yeah. I think tier two. Action speak louder than words.

Yeah. I feel like a really good one too is noticing a haircut or new nails. Oh, yes. Or new dress. Yeah, yeah, or clothing. Just anything that like they have gone out of their way to get done, that goes a long way with women. Because for guys, it's like we're happy that you're happy.

But, you know, no, we're not getting pedicures and manicures, you know, as frequently unless you eyebrows, eyelashes. You're right too, especially clothing. They get something new like, Charada had a jacket going on. I'm like, you, I mess with that jacket. noticing it before they have said something. Yeah. I think is where you hit the home run.

Hell yeah, dude. That's a good stuff right there, Jack. Good stuff. Sitting hit a new, a little like hair dress combo on Saturday. And I was like, God day, okay, I see you. And just that, you could tell it went a long way. God dang, okay, I see you. I need that on the list as well.

God dang. Yeah, I hate that on there. Yeah. I love that. Hell, yeah. Hell yes. Clump, you got one that had to the list? Outside of the dry humping.

My big one is like if Lynn says she is like a busy day, I have to do this, this or this. When I get home, I try to like hit back on those topics. Like, oh, wow, like it's nice and clean in here or it smells good.

Just kind of compliment like things she was stressed about. Yeah. That's good. It's compliment. Yeah, remembering. Remembering. Yeah, just like.

Like appreciating the little things that happened around the house. Yeah. Yeah. You guys don't like that one. No, no, no. I do. I'm thinking in my head like yesterday. Taylor's like, hey, I feel like I've been like a single parent for the last couple weeks. And I'm like, hey, you really have.

And I cannot thank you enough for how I've had to deal with this. And it's really, I haven't been able to do a whole lot of shit. So that's really big of you. And you could just tell us she was like, she needed the acknowledgement, which I think we all need it sometimes. It was big. Yeah. Before we hop off, the world needs to know. Clump had an aura dump on me just a second ago.

He has a pizza named after him in his hometown. What? local pizza spot. It's a special pizza. It's called the other clump pizza. It's a buffalo chicken pizza, but instead of buffalo sauce, it is mango habanero sauce on the pizza. You got a pizza named AFJ back in the hometown.

It's weird. Every now and then it's in the rotation. I'll show you a picture of it. Oh, you were him back in the day. No, no, no, no, no. Oh, you were him back in the day. Hold on, hold on, hold on. No, no, no.

Hey, god dang okay, I see you. This is going to turn so poorly bad of how it happened. It's not because of my high school football playing days. It's because my family goes there every Friday and they just love our family. So like, and I order the pizza and he's like, no one ever orders this. This is awesome. It's great. So they put it as a special and it like sold out.

So we always joke that was all like I kind of created my own. Yeah, you guys did, man. That ain't a joke. That's a real spiel. That's legacy. It's from eating pizza though. It's not from like anything good. God, yeah.

What? Dude you love, you never work a day in your life. You've done something amazing. You support the community. Eating Pizza is a universal language. Shout out to Caddycorcoron. I'm sure Will would love to have a pizza named after him at home team. We'd love that.

He's on Twitter every Friday. Yeah. Yeah. We'll be back. Home team. We'll be back over Thanksgiving. I'll send you a picture of it. We're going to go there.

Nice. Nice. I also have something named after me. All right, onward. What do you got named after you? Brown Jug, Southwest, the Southwest Burger. Tell us about the story, man. Let's hear the legacy.

Perry, you guys know Perry. And I play football there and they're like, Taylor-Lawan, Southwest Burger. That's what it is. That's it's awesome, dude. No, I think, I think. Hey, that's awesome, man. Nice. Yeah, hell yeah, dude.

That's the aura. Thank you. Thank you very much. Is it still there? I don't know. That's a good question. I like to think so. I like to think so.

What time does Nebraska and Penn State play this week? Night game. So we hope we'll be able to stream that as well. Yeah, we'll be on the stream. I'll be balls deep in that Nittney Lions Huskers game. Well, that'll be 11 a.m. We're streaming at 11 a.m. this week. Yeah, what do you mean?

We'll be on the stream. I wish we were streaming for that game. Oh, wish we were streaming. Got you. Got you. Got you. Yeah, we'll be. All right.

We'll be solid. All right, let's get into the final bite. Brought to us by McDonald's. New Buffalo Ranch sauce has arrived and it pairs perfectly with your snack wrap, McChispy sandwich and McCrispy strips. It's got the Zhang Tang of Buffalo with the creamy cool, mild ranch. It's mild and wild at the same time. It's a sauce that balances itself.

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heading into the weekend, heading into the week, let's say. Whether it's a bold prediction, a hot take, or a storyline that's flying under the radar, the final bite gives fans the one thing to keep in mind before finishing their week

and tuning in the kickoff as they dip their McCrispy strips in this new buffalo sauce. What are they dipping in? Dipping in denim. They're dipping in denim. Dipping in denim. I got a final bite.

Oh. Oh, okay, man. Taylor, my final bite is Taylor is going to get over this gout and this foot thing and it'll never happen again for as long as he lives. And for whatever reason, it was just a spell. He's going to be able to eat whatever he wants, do whatever he wants, and it'll never happen again. It'll never happen again.

That is my favorite. Dude, I would dip all day in denim with that. I would dip all day in that. My final bite, and I don't even take pride in saying this because the Vols play, the Gators, in Gainesville this weekend, historically we lose in Gainesville all the time. And then we have Vandy. So if the worst possible case scenario,

my final bite, Tennessee and Nebraska in the Music City Bowl. Oh, shit. That would be awesome. That would be awesome. Right, right. Nashville, we'd have to go too. It'd be like the ninth music city bowl for the balls in the last 10 minutes

is what it feels like. I'd love to get a link into Nashville. That'd be awesome. And what's great about that is you guys were supposed to play it. The Nebraska was like, we're not playing. Yeah, next year, loop. I don't want to talk about it. J.P. Colm., do you guys have a final bite

heading into the weekend? Because you guys already know what mine's going to be. Yeah, I mean, after what happened to me this weekend, one of the only things that could cheer me up is that I'd a McDonald's breakfast for my final bite after leaving that Texas A&M game, how I feel right now. What's your order?

What's your breakfast order at McDonald's? So I go back and forth between two things. I'll give you this one. This is what I had most recently. I was actually inspired by your tweet last week to go get McDonald's breakfast. And I got bacon, sorry, sausage egg and cheese bagel meal plus breakfast burrito.

The little two for breakfast burritos? Yeah. I love the breakfast. The breakfast burritos are, Maybe the best fast food breakfast burritos to ever exist. Yeah. Agreed. And I'm out there at the breakfast burrito streets.

No, you're in the community. Yeah. Agreed. I like when you take a bite too and there's almost a little pop of cheese that comes into your mouth. Yeah. God. And they're a hot sauce sauce. A sharp ched.

You're a bagel guy for your breakfast sandwich over the biscuit and over the McGritle. The McGritle. The McGritle did is... They brought back bagels. Yeah. The National McDonald's. JP and like four people. They like called him out on Twitter, McDonald's.

Or bringing back the bagels. Oh, wow. I got a McDonald's hat at the house. Yeah. And I was also a part of the snack grab campaign. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I do remember that.

Rico, Bosco hit me up when he saw that tweet like, who fucking? I'm getting, I'm getting McDonald's. I'm getting McDonald's for breakfast on this Friday morning. He was like, bro, get the steak, egg, and cheese bagel. Trust me. And usually in my order, I love getting the sausage, the breakfast burritos. And I like getting just for nostalgia purposes.

bacon egg and cheese McGrittle. And I also got a steak egg and cheese bagel like he was saying, but it was very, it was subpar. Like it was good, but I feel like he put such an expectation on it. Because I'm not, like for me on the McDonald's, it's McGrittle and bagel sandwich, or McGrittle and biscuit sandwich over the pancakes though, bro.

And also the hash browns. The hash browns. Hasbrowns are all time. Might be the number one thing on their roster. Elite roster. Elite roster. And that orange high sea? we might have to next final bite

we may have to create a starting five and then a reserve five just like a basketball team starting five on the menu and then who is our bench on the menu yeah I like that because they have a great roster that bench is deep yes I mean my final take is

we're going to go into Happy Valley Saturday night double digit underdogs Nebraska T.J. Lateef we take down the Nittany Lions Foxhole game Foxhole game yeah we got an opportunity to finish strong here I will probably be ranked by the time we play him

get the ranked win monkey off our back against the Iowa Hawkeyes Iowa was ranked before they lost to USC they're gonna be out now you think they probably be like yeah it'll be close

they might be able to snip a 24 25 in there yeah it would be nice yeah because you guys gotta get that off of it that's the next that's the next step yeah right there

my final bite hot take if the Rams and the Seahawks played again the Seahawks win that game I love that yeah they win that game big

I think you have four turnover and Sammy D what I hate for that game is is my expectation in that game was for Sam Donald to go in and be able to out duel Matthew Stafford

but it ended up being more of a defensive game than anything else which is great it's great for football it's just how complete both those teams are but for Sammy D to have four interceptions a lot of the haters are going to come out of the woodwork and be like oh he's really not a great

quarterback he's had a good year but he's not like an elite top five guy I think those guys play again and I believe they do play again, right? They haven't played twice yet. So they will play again. I am taking the Seahawks in that game. Mark it down right here.

Final, final bite, keep Shane Beamer. Final final bite, Michigan makes the playoffs. All right, good to go, boys. Big hug, sunny kisses. Enjoy Robert Gallery. This is an incredible interview. Listen to all two and a half hours of it. Leave comments, subscribe.

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Let's get to the Robert Gallery episode that is brought to us. This interview is brought to us by Bud Light. Bud Light has always brewed for simple ingredients for a clean, crisp taste. Bud Light is the official beer sponsor of the NFL, the NFL, the NFL draft Titan University, the UFC, and Shane Gilles' 2025 tour. Post Malone, Dustin Porier, Amid Smith, Baker Mayfield, George Kittle, Peyton Manning are all of the Bud Light partners. so you can stock up now on Bud Light head to www.budlight.com slash locator to find a store

a store near you. Easy to drink. Easy to enjoy. Enjoy this interview with Robert Gallery. Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news,

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We're starting a trend. But, This one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was...

This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas. and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Ladies gentlemen, let's give it up for our guest today. We got a two-time, all-banked 10, one-time, All-American Outland Trophy winner and a man who's had an incredible story that we're going to break down on this beautiful Tuesday morning. Let's get up for Robert Gallery. Great. Excite to have you on. Right before we started, we were talking about the ego and the Big Ten going around right now. I don't if Robert would have been a great guest to have on before, leading up to the Iowa game, maybe after the Iowa game. Talking about Michigan football.

A lot of Big Ten energy in this bus right now. Big Ten ego right here. A lot of Big Ten ego. Yeah. I was looked tough this year. Yeah, they're doing well. I was back last week for the game and just to see them steam roll through that. It's nice to see when you don't just squeak it out.

But they're rolling. That quarterback makes a big difference. for them and they're a fun team to watch. We're moving the ball and, you know, it's Hawkeye football. We got to beat you. We gotta beat your ass at the end of the year. Nine and one so far. Yeah, the last 10.

Yeah, I was one, nine of last 10. Great school. I feel like you guys is rivalry. It's like it's a rivalry, but there's a level of mutual respect in it. Am I correct in saying that? Respect is a big word. Yeah. I think so.

No, it's a great rivalry. The others. But it's a rivalry that kind of like came about or kind of, kind of gets forced in whenever we made the move to the Big Ten. Yeah. As Iowa, Nebraska is going to play at the end of the year every season from here on out. But it's there. I wouldn't say that there's like people love each other.

Right. True. But people are also understanding, like, if your kid wanted to go to Iowa at the end of the day, you would be okay with it? I personally wouldn't. Some folk in Nebraska might be okay with it. I did hear that. And the sad part is, I guess, I have a great, my wife played for the women's basketball

team there. We have a great relationship with the- At Nebraska? No, at Iowa. Okay. Yeah, no, no. Wouldn't have married her. I mean, another story.

But we have a great relationship with the head coach there. And I know you have two girls and we were talking. We were just back and we were just talking with her, you know. So they are ready to see your girls come up and they actually sent a bunch of stuff for you. That is so sweet. You know, there's some women's basketball t-shirts. I threw in a Kirk Ferenz poster just because I figured you'd put it up somewhere. But I know you'll do what's best for your girl.

and get him ready to go be a hawkeye. That is so kind. Not a lot of people come on this show and give out gifts. That's so sweet. That is so cool. What do you say? What do you? Is that signed?

Some youth smalls. He's won a few games, you know. He's won a few. I respect this. I respect this. I respect it so much that if you guys beat us, I'll post a photo with Rue with this little foam finger. That's a wild.

I told him he's got to grow his hair for a year and it looked like the world was coming down to him. You're giving a gift and you're like, if I lose, I'll have Rue hold this up, no problem. Well, I just respect the, I just respect him being on his toes coming in the bus. Yeah, fair enough. A little bit might be too that I did take a recruiting visit

to Nebraska. I never got offered, so there might be a little bitterness in our relationship with that. They didn't offer you? Did not. But that's okay. That's because you were probably, you were an athlete, right? Right, yeah, no, I was a higher recruit.

You were a Robert Gallery that came to be Robert Gallery? No. All-American, all that stuff. Like, you know, who was the head coach at the time in Nebraska? You know, that's a good question. That was a bag. I don't even remember. Don't remember that trip.

This is early 2000. It was 99. 99. 99 was when you were a senior in high school. That's wild because you don't, you look our age, which is really upsetting for me. And so you're from Iowa, you go to Iowa. Was it ever, how many offers did you have? I think like four.

Purdue, Northwestern, Iowa State, Iowa had four. And Iowa was clearly, like you wanted to go to Iowa? I did. My older brother played there. He was a old big 10 punter there from 93 to 96. So I was hanging around the university. I was hanging around the program. All the guys that were there, the Tim Dwights, the Jared DeVries.

So I'm in the dorms as a junior high kid hanging out with these guys. So in my mind, it was like, this is where I want to go because I knew the culture and I knew all the guys. you know, it's cool to be recruited and go check out the other places, but at the end of the day, I knew I was going to Iowa. Yeah. And it didn't matter what other school offered you. If it was like an Alabama, SEC school, Michigan, Michigan. Yeah, but I don't, I was an athlete, right?

I played basketball. You know, it was a second state in the high jump. You know, I ran the four by one. But I wasn't this. Four by one? Yeah. This is fucking out of control. Yeah.

So we were, you know, I was just. How were you jumping? I still have the school record at 6'5. Yeah, I mean, I could, I had some hops now. Dude, that is nuts. So I was an athlete, right? So I wasn't, you didn't turn on my VHS tape that I sent to all these schools and see like this killer football player. He saw an athlete that could run.

You know, my high school, we didn't, we didn't throw the ball either. So they showed me blocking, that's for sure, because we would go entire games and not throw the ball. But I wasn't, Michigan wouldn't have sniffed me. I sent them a VHS tape, no return call. Really? And what were you weighing when you got to Iowa? I showed up about 230 pounds soaking wet. Okay. Yeah. So there was, you had a registered year on the horizon, no problem for you.

For sure. It was, uh, my senior year high school, I was right at 210 and they told me when I showed up, like, you need to put some pounds on. So before we weighed in, I drank two gallons of water. Hell yeah. Been on that program before. Yes. So I was like 2.30 and just full of water. Yeah. But by Christmas, my first year, I think I was 275 or 280. I got on that lifting program and that eating program. They're like, when you wake up, you drink a protein shake in the middle of the night. And if you wake up again, you drink another one. But we had that Chris Doyle program. Chris Doyle was our strength coach.

And we had his program of putting lean mass on and it worked. Now, is Chris Doyle the string coach? Was he there for a very long time of Kirk Farrant? He was there for the first year when Kirk started. So 99's when Kirk came, Chris Doyle came. That's when it all started when I, my first year. And Chris was there for 15 plus years, 18 years. No shit.

Where was Dobson at at the time? James Dobson. So that's a mutual connection that we have. That's how this whole thing got connected, correct? Yeah, yeah, Dobb hit me up. I was talking to me about Robert Gallery and knowing that Dobson, he started at Iowa before he came and was our head strength coach at Nebraska. So you knew about all the Doyle programming. I'm sure we were doing a lot of the stuff in Nebraska that you guys were getting into and doing because Doyle was like ahead of his time in the strength training program.

But yeah, Dobson, because he had to have been young. Yeah, he was there. He was assistant at 99. He came with, came with Doyle and he was there my entire career until he moved on later on. And later on, he was there quite a few years. But yeah, James, James is the best. We kept in contact over the years. And, yeah, he learned from the Doyle stuff and then put his own stuff into it.

And, yeah, he's just a great human being. How was his, like, authority figure vibe that young as an assistant? You know, you look back on it. We were, you know, obviously we were all a lot younger. You look back at pictures of Coach Ferrence in 1999. You're like, holy cow. But James was a young guy. We were all just trying, right?

They were trying to put in their program. And we were bad, right? 1999, we were one in 10, you know, my redshirt year, right? So everyone's trying to bring in the toughness, but it was Coach Doyle and James, like bringing in that, like, if you don't do it right, get out the door, right? And it was. Yeah, it's a weed out the weak type of mentality. For sure. And if you did stuff right, they loved you, right? It was it, was it hard for sure. But those, you know, guys like me, we fed on that, you know, the Iowa guys, the people they brought in for that culture that we fed on that stuff. And if they called you out, you're like,

oh, you know, oh, yeah, watch this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're, they're, three California guys, they were like, I gotta go. I gotta get the hell out of here quickly. Right. So you're with fans, you're registered your first year. The next year, you're starting? Started at tight end. Really? Yes. True athlete. Yes. I was. So tight in you, you can potentially claim. Being a part of the group. For a very small time. I think I had three catches, one of which was at Nebraska. We ended up losing that game, but I did have a catch in that game. So my, my, first year, my red shirt, freshman year, started at tight end, and then four games in, they came to me like, hey, we need to have a discussion. And then I moved to tackle and

the rest is history. How did you like playing for Coach Ferrence? I loved it. He's the best. He is, I was just back. He's a guy I talked to regularly. He hasn't changed since 1999. He's just the most steady, genuine person you've ever met. Now you see him, right? Obviously, he was 27 years younger when we first started. but you see him now getting emotional. It's cool because I knew him 27 years ago when we were just trying to get a program turned around, right? He was coming in.

He was a young, new coach, or newer coach, right? Head coach. And he's just the genuine human being. There's no rah-rah. It's everything he says is meaningful and to the point and just genuine. It's hard to say. I took my son back for training camp.

You know, my son's in his office hanging out with him. There's no like, oh, Robert's here. We've got to fake this and make him feel included. He's like, this place is your place and your son, Lincoln's. So Lincoln's high-fiving him, knocking him, right, running in and out of his office. He's just a genuine, genuine human being. And, you know, that's why he's had so much success. And your son's name is Lincoln. Very interesting. Lincoln, Nebraska. Lincoln, Nebraska. Do you didn't think about that? It all comes back to Nebraska. I did not think of that. I'm a car guy, so it's actually more after

Lincoln Continental. The old 60s. But now, hey, but now he's going to, he won't be able to help but think about it now. Now, yeah, he might have to, yeah. It's messed up. Yeah, now from now on, you're like, Lincoln, I definitely, should named you Ford. Yeah, she named you forward. Coach Ferrence was the first head coach I had to call and basically say that I wasn't coming to Iowa.

And it was so painful. But he was incredible to me. Whenever I made that call, my parents were like, you have to call. The school was like Iowa. I was very much like considering Ira and they recruited me hard. And I had a cool. You said you were considering Iowa? Yeah, I was considering Iowa.

Because my brother, so my brother was a year younger than me, and he was a very good wrestler growing up. He was a senior national champion coming out of high school. So when I would go on my recruiting trips, we would take a family road trip and we'd hit in Missouri because Missouri had a good wrestling program. We hit Nebraska because Nebraska had a good wrestling program. We had Iowa because Iowa was unbelievable at wrestling. So a lot of majority of my decision, I wanted to go to a spot where I know my brother could go and wrestle too so we could go to school together. So Iowa was very much in the conversation. I forget my recruiting coordinator,

but I had a cool relationship with Coach Ferrence. Super awesome, dude. It's cool hearing you talk about him because he did seem very genuine whether I got to sit and meet with them, talk to him on the phone. Doyle kind of intimidating, bald dude, massive. They had the chains going on everywhere in the weight room.

It just seemed like a spot where you go and get yoked. Yeah, you get after it around that. Yeah. Bubble, they just had a bubble. They didn't really have an indoor. I visited Iowa right after Nebraska. So the difference in facility was like you walk into the bubble and it was a humid like, you know, they didn't have like an indoor very well. Yeah.

Yeah, we were behind the times with the facility. Behind the times. They're like, we're building a new weight room. But I had, I had a cool visit. I had a cool visit at Iowa. Yeah, that's great. They're both, you know, my first day, my first day at camp with the freshman, Coach Doyle was holding the bag. So it was just a freshman.

And I'm a skinny, tight end, scared shitless, right? I just want to come in and make it. And he was holding the bag. And I remember the first one I came off, my hand slid up off the bag, smacked them in the face. And my shoulder problems in high school. And my shoulder came out of the socket. And I'm like, oh, God, is this for me? So he's looking staring at me, right?

And he was a massive man back then. He's staring at me. I just jacked him in the face. And I'm trying not to cry because my shoulder came out and just had to go back to the drills. And I'll never forget that day because he looked at me and just told me, keep your hands down. And I'm like, yes, sir. Because he was this massive, scary human being. But the greatest guy out there.

What were the, is the dorm situation? What is it called the six pack? We didn't have that then. Okay. Yeah, no, we, I don't know. We, we had the dorms. Some could say I was too gritty for me. Some could say that.

Yeah. The way you talk and how I've trained with you? Yeah, I could see that. Didn't have all the shiny lights and Nebraska had back then, right? Didn't have all the pretty stuff. That's all right. Dude, is it the, the, maybe the most scared anybody can be in their entire life is your freshman year when you go from high school to college,

and it's your first workout with the entire team. Not the freshman workouts, but the first one like when I first got to Michigan which was Rodriguez was the head coach we had Mike Barless who was just like world renowned head coach and we did like this Tabata type of workout where it's like three sets of 12 squat three sets of 12 hand clean like very high reps high volume and also high weight and then we do like hypertrophy jumping and by the time we got to that hypertrophy jumping I was like hitting like a full body cramp like dying and after that everyone started jogging out to the field to go do our sprints and our running after that so it was like just a hell of a day on a Monday. Mike Barless walks up and he's got this like super raspy like he's swallowed glass voice and he goes Welcome to Michigan. How do you like my dick in your mouth and then walks away? I'm thinking I got to get the fuck out of here. There is no way I'm going to make it. Mom, this is not for me mom And then he's terrible and then you got to go shower for the first time and then for all the boys and you're like do I wear underwear? Do I not wear underwear? Like it's a dude. It's a mental warfare. Oh, it is. When you go in like we did like we were not grown men, right? Skinny, you know, and you walk in and Colin Cole, he came from Florida.

He was a grown man when he showed up as a freshman. And I'm like, I'm going to play against this guy? I mean, 320 pound yoke dude from Florida. And I remember thinking, oh my God, this is not going to work. Yeah. Dude, it is. Yeah, we had brain. It is a mind fuck dude. You walk in there, you're not developed whatsoever compared to the college, the grown men that are in college. You're skinny. You got a little pecker. You're walking the shower. Just fear. Fear. Fear. Who's going to look.

Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. You accidentally look at another guy. He's black. It's way different than yours. We got a good story, cold tub story. But we had a Kalil Hill. He came and just stood at the top of the cold tub and said, I'm going to get here and see what's like to be all you white boys. We were just standing at the top of the cold tub.

He was in the helicopter? Hit in the helicopter. Oh, my God. And I remember thinking, oh, my Lord, what is this? You're like, I'm going to keep my shorts and spandex and everything on. Yeah, terrifying. What's it like to be you guys? Jesus.

Jesus Christ. What was the moment you realized, oh, the NFL is a real option for me as a player? You know, honestly, I was so, you know, and this sounds easy to say now, but I was so in the moment, the entire, my entire career, it wasn't until after my junior year. We had a great junior year. That's we were 11 in one season, Orange Bowl, before we went down to the Orange Bowl and got throttled by USC, but that's another story. But great year, right?

Brad Banks is our question. quarterback. Our offensive line was five guys that ended up playing in the league. After that season, Coach Ferrence brought me in and, you know, he said, hey, there's guys are going to be calling you. There's a chance you could come out early and probably be in the top 10. And honest to God, till that point, I had no idea. Did I know I was playing well? Yes, but I was so in the moment until that point I wasn't thinking about, you know, I wasn't the kid that showed up in college like, this is my step to the NFL, right? Do you watch that stuff and be like, I want to play in the league for sure but it wasn't on my mind i was just worried about getting better and better and it wasn't until my junior

year when coach brought me in he's like you know it's your choice you know could probably be a top 10 pick and i was remember thinking like really you know it sounds sounds dumb or ignorant but i really really hadn't thought about it because it was just enjoying the process of what we had been doing to that point and too it's like it's early 2000 it's not like you got all the social media and everything like you do now to where everybody knows absolutely everything for sure yeah we had dialed internet remember yeah now there's combines for eighth graders Right, exactly. Getting scullies.

The spark combine is nuts. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And as well, so did you end up leaving earlier? Did you end up staying for a year? I stayed. Yeah, it was one of those things.

I'm like, oh, I don't, you know, I want to get my degree. You know, I was the old school Iowa farm kid. My parents told me, go to school and get your degree. Yeah. So I wanted to get my degree. And I said, well, can I get, I'm going to get better, right? Because I didn't think I was that good yet, right? And coach said, yeah, I see you being better.

I see you be able to be, you know, a top one or two pick, right? Like, that's what we shoot for for you. I was like, great. Like, I'm here. That's insane to hear. So it was, yeah. How do you feel like that infiltrated your brain, like your ego? I mean, it was, it was.

Because you going from not being like, not, you're aware that you're good, but being that good or seen from NFL scouts as like, oh, if I left, I could be a top 10 pick. Now you know it. Coach is also saying, like, I think you could be one or two. If you stay another year, you can get this much better here, here and here. How does that affect you going into your senior year? I mean, it was tough. It was that, that was a point where kind of.

switch to up to that point, it was just having fun, right? My first few years, you're getting your ass kicked, right? You're just trying to make it. First day they moved me to tackle. I'm going against Fred Wakefield versus Illinois, who's a senior and a beast, All-American, just hoping to not give up a sack to my junior year. We're dominating, but it's just fun. So that started that senior year was when there was like, oh, there is expectation.

Oh, I am pretty good. And that's kind of when it crept in. It's like, I need to be perfect. Like, oh, I'm that guy. So, you know, I could have six. 69 of 70 plays on film. Now I can say it back then I would never, but now I can say that I, you know,

dominated those 69 plays and had one bad one and it would ruin it for me. I'm like, I'm supposed to be the guy that's perfect. And it's so unrealistic, but that's how my mind thought. You're probably like, I want to be the greatest to ever do it. Well, that was.

That was just my mindset. Like we all, right? You just grind and grind and grind and grind. It's like, that's great. Like this, oh, I achieved this. Great. Move to the next thing, right? You never really thought about that.

Because it's like, okay, well, that's great. Big deal. Next. Yeah. And so, I mean, it was still fun, but it was definitely more, you know, more pressure. I thought about it more. It's like, oh, you know, in a game to where if something would happen, my hands will be wide. Oh, he got me.

Whatever next plan, I'll go killing. Yeah. To where something would happen, it would ruin the rest of the game I'd be stuling. Because I don't, that can't happen to me. Like, this doesn't happen to run a week. Yeah, the rest of the week when you're watching, like, even for me, like, when I was seeing, like, where I could potentially be a late round pick, like before the season and everything else.

agents are trying to talk to you. Like it infiltrate your mind. Like we were on the locker room last week and Clay was kind of like, I bet you were the man at Nebraska. Like, how were you at Nebraska? I'm just thinking like my senior year kind of feels like a blur because I feel like I didn't enjoy it in a way. Like I look back, I'm proud of how I went about everything, but enjoyed in such a way to where I felt like the man or was having all this fun. Like I just felt like I wanted to be drafted so badly to where any bad plays it would like ruin your damn weekend. Absolutely. Scott Piole was the GM at New England at a time, very close friends with Coach Farrants. And he had visited that weekend. And I kind of, you know, lost it, but I was talking to him

about it like, oh, I got him, you know, this, I messed this one play up. And I remember him leaving me his business card at my locker. And on the back, he wrote, lighten up, Francis, right? Because he was talking to me about like, dude, relax. It's fun. Like, you're playing great. Just go out and do what you've been doing the last couple years. But I was so intent on everything has to be perfect. because now I want to be this, right? When they threw that out there, oh, you could be, you know, you could have been in top 10. You could be at the top of the draft.

So now that's a new goal. And anything that affected it would affect me for days and weeks. But it was still fun and was still able to, you know, the level of competition too, I was still playing very well. Yeah. But it was just the mental part of it. Yeah, the mental part, definitely. As soon as expectations get put on you.

Because when you get to college, it's like, how do I just put myself in a starting role or a contributor at the very least? And you do that, and it's like, how awesome is this? And I'm wearing a uniform in college and playing. And then just slowly but sure, like, their expectation after expectation, you continue to move the goalpost for yourself. But it ended up working out. You go second overall to the Raiders.

What is like in the early 2000s, what is the draft process like for you? Like, Combines, is it still in Indianapolis? Yep, still in Indies. So go to the combine, you know, the typical. And it wasn't good. Sounds like you went nuts based on your high school athleticism. Yeah, I did well. You know, the one thing.

That is true. Yeah. The one, you know, I ran very well. I want to say it was sub five electronic, I think 489 handheld. It was what they had me. So I ran well, jumped well. How heavy are you at this point? Three, two.

I weighed in at 320. Unit. Almost 100 pounds more than the first day you walked in Iowa. Exactly. Did the, I remember, I won't forget the bench press. So did the bench press. And the, I don't remember what team he was with at the time, but he had a big ego. And he said I was bouncing, right?

Because I was a fast bencher. Like as fast as I can, I'm like, I'm going there and put up, you know, this many, 30 some, as fast as I can. Well, he didn't count a bunch of them. He's like, nope, because I was going too fast. He's got to pause. So I remember coming out, right? So I've talked to the media right after that and I'm pissed off because he counted 26, right? So that was not the standard.

I think I did 34, but he didn't count eight of them. So I'm pissed off about that, right? So that was the whole combine. I remember stewing on that, the rest of the entire combine trying to do interviews and meet with GMs. and all I can think about is like, this motherfucker didn't count these many reps in my bench press. So I, I ended. 34 sounds way better than 26. Well, for sure.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it was, you know, the combine, it was, it was great. It was, you know, not what it is now.

Obviously, there wasn't all the cameras. So that was great because, you know, you just go in there and you did your stuff when we got out of there. And I ended up showing that that guy in the bench press when we, I redid it at Iowa. There's a, that's a good story behind Coach Doyle coaching on that one. when they came to Iowa. So we have our pro day. And he's like, all right, we'll show them. We're going to do 32.

And then you're going to stop and rack it. So scouts come in. I come in. They set it up, had one bench with, you know, 45 on each plate or on each side. Next rack had 2.45s. Next had 3. Next had 4. So I sat down with the 1.45 on each did a bunch of reps.

Moved to the next bench. Did a bunch of reps. Now I've got three plates on each side, do a few reps. four plates on each side knocked out like three of them then went and sat down and did my test and stopped every

I mean arrogant but stopped every single time stopped 1001 did 32 of those racked it and walked out the door didn't say anything any scouts just a big fuck you

they're watching me warm up and like you know when I sat down at the bench with 445s on a side I can remember them looking what is this kid doing Doyle's like we got a plan just do it sat down

knocked out a couple of those did my riffs and walked out the door. That is bad ass. I love that, dude. Oh, this is, uh, the Raz score. Razz is relative athletic score and you're a perfect 10. Interesting.

I've never seen that. There you go. If that's a little ego booster for you right there. There we go. Can't get better than 10, brother. Can't get better than 10. And you got, you got to give sub five out of your language. That's a, that's a four nine.

Perfect. Yeah, yeah. You ran a four nine. Yeah, that's a four nine. Yeah, sub five doesn't sound as good. Short shuttle 483. That's quick. we had we had some good teaching coach doyle and dobson yeah oh yeah those guys knew how to teach that and the you know the athletic ability helped but those guys were great teachers man i owe the credit to them what is this stuff we would do do dobson where the pushing and the pulling of the sleds what was it called gppp did you guys do you guys do you guys do you guys do you guys do you guys do you guys did some version of it at iowa again like sitting down and the whole recruiting process like my dad was a sick oh working out growing up like defranco training and different things so i kind of understood some west side of

barbell and a lot of those variations in concepts of training and everybody was super high on doyle so getting to sit down and and listen to doyle speak and then getting to train with dobson throughout my career in Nebraska like it did feel like they were you guys Iowa I remember all my visit you were the only school that had the tindo units happening at that point and so obviously dopsin Nebraska we're getting those tindo units to kind of measure speed power velocity so very much like a head of like I stayed I wasn't a combine guy but just staying and training with Coach Dobson throughout to get ready for Pro Day

and everything else. Like, yeah, they are very good teachers. You never run the 40. You're always doing like tens and 20s and you never cap out to where you know, you're like, I have no clue what I'm going to run. But yeah, I enjoyed, I enjoyed training with Dobson during that time getting ready for the pro day.

Oh, they were ahead of their time. Yeah. They were way ahead of their time. Oh, here. What do we do this? Is this a real thing or is this AI? Hold on a second. Four, six, two.

You lied. People have different versions. We can call Dobson right now. You said 45. 456 electronic. Electronic doesn't mean your phone. What is this? Oh.

Perfect 10. I see you. Here's your girl. He said, oh. And it's not even a team for Taylor. It's Pro Bowl. Yeah. When I went to the combine, I was like, this is, I'm going to excel in this.

It was definitely my world. Just the short speed. The short shuttle? Like 449's great. Like 449's awesome for a left tackle of your size. Yeah. And just knowing you're in the 4-3s, like that is incredible. Dude, the short shuttle, it's funny that Will brings it up

because in 2018 when Will came to the Titans, we worked out with Dobs in the summertime. So we would run together. We'd do these GPP things. We would do this French-centric work that Rex would always put us on. But whenever we would do the short shuttle, Will would beat me

like edge me out by like this much I barely get me and Will would always feel hey you must be pretty fast because this is not pretty good at these that was always Will's like go to with the short

you kind of like you're pretty quick because I'm really good at these it was cheating and back then it was cheating right Kevin Gasper broke some all time records at the combine

but it was almost cheating because there was a certain the first step was a certain way there was a two step those first five yards and it was cheating even the three cone The way you jump around that, the tip of the L, the way you like jump around and get around,

there are some like certain skills that if you just sit there and practice it and can perfect it, it's you get shaved so much off of your time. Yeah. After I ran my 40 of the combat, I don't think I cared about anything else. We jumped, we did broad jump, vertical jump, and then it was 40. And the way they set it up was there was like the, I was OL 23, so I was number 23. And then the first group was one through 22. So I was the first one to go and to run the 40 in my group.

And I was, I was shitting myself. I was so nervous. But once I ran, I knew I ran under a 4-9. I was like, fuck, the rest of this can kick rocks. Right. Well, that's true. I don't remember doing the L. Don't remember doing the short shuttle.

And you spend so much time. Like you write the 5, 10, 5, it's like two, three and through. Like two steps. Then you try to get the other side on three. But yeah, as soon as I ran the 40, I was like, nothing else matters anymore. That's all I really wanted to do. Yeah. You have the combine up so much too, right?

Like you get to that point. It's everything to you. You're talking about the expectation. Like you're so like all that matters is the combine. And once the combine is over, you're like, I guess all that matters is. I had tweaked a hamstring like two weeks before, right? And I'm like, this is the biggest job interview in my life. Doyle's like, relax.

You know, Antonio James, like, you'll be fine. Like just we'll get you out there. But same thing. I got through that. Felt great. And I'm like, the rest of this is, I'm good. Same thing. I knew it was good.

I looked up. Somebody gave me the thumbs up. I'm like, I'm great. Yeah, yeah. I know I did fine. It's all good. But you were in Oakland for, actually, before we even get to Oakland, the drafting thing, that you're there for Kirk Ferrence in his, like, beginning part of his career. That's obviously lasted as long as it has.

Do you have any, like, great Kirk Ferrence stories that maybe no one really knows, that early days? Yeah, I think they were just, right, they were trying to figure out who they were, but I had a line coach, Jill Philbin. So when I got to college, in high school, my mom would cut my hair, high and tight, right? Hair cut every week. Mom would fade it up. She did a real nice job on a fade.

But get to college, right? Poor. Yes, I'm on scholarship, but I got no money. We're living in the dorms. Got nothing. So I started growing my hair up. All right. So the hair's getting long.

And my line coach kept telling me, every day I'd come in the office, he cut your fucking hair. Cut your fucking hair. So one day I finally, I was like, man, you know, I'm a young kid, right? Still, obviously a new player. Go knock on Coach Ference's office. I'm nervous as hell. I'm like, hey, coach, like, yeah.

It's like, Coach Philbin keeps telling me to cut my hair. Like, do you care? Do you want me to cut my hair? Just a scared little kid. And he goes, come in here. Walks in, he shuts the door. He goes, I don't give a shit what your hair looks like. I just want you to play good football. I was like, copy that coach.

And so from that point on, but no, he was just, he's the same guy. The speeches you see now, he was the same. Just go to work. It was him and Doyle and Dobson. It was just like, you go to work, do things right. And, you know, they love you, right? That's just, that's the culture there. So he wasn't, he's not a big fly.

He's not jumping up on the surfing the team. He's he is who he is. And I think that's what everybody loved about him back then. And now you see it. And that's what you really love about the guy. He's just a genuine, just the same guy. Oh, it doesn't change for anybody. Right.

He's not buying into the new hype and the all this stuff. It's just the coach Ferran set we knew. So that's that's probably, you know, it's typical of him very not a big flashy story. But it was, you know, that's just who he was. It's like, I don't care about that. Like, let's play football. Being consistent for a quarter century is pretty incredible. Any like initiation stories with the O-Line room?

Or is you being older to a young cat? No. What type of O-Lyman were you? Where you were like, hey, let's get them uncomfortable. Like we'd have, we'd have O'Alignment like when we were fresh when they'd come up and put their leg up on the bench, they'd be butt-naked, just try to make you feel very uncomfortable. We'd do a little bit of that, right? Stand close in the cold tub, some of the, you know, walk into the meeting rooms and, you know,

you graze up against a guy or a new young guy that's kind of, kind of weirded out. But it was, you know, I wasn't a, I wasn't big into that. It wasn't a bunch of talking. It was more the, hey, we come in and go to work, right? I tell the stories, these kids, you know, kids, as I was older, they were younger. You know, I'm sorry, I'm this or I'm tired and I'm not doing it. So I told the story when I was, again, when I was a freshman, we were learning to do cleans, or head cleans.

Right? So I do one while I came too close to my head. And I caught my forehead with the bar on the way up. Still did the clean. Well, I can just feel blood running down my face. So I gash my head open. And Doyle and Dobson are looking at me. And I'm like, put it down and I kept going.

And they're like, you're all right. And I'm like wiping all this. I mean, he's running down my face. Feeling like the most badass ever. Right. And they're like, go get that checked out. So I tell the story to the younger guys. Like, hey, we don't give a shit what you do.

But you know, right? Something like this happens. I'm this tough. This is what happened. And I kept going, well, when did you fix it? Well, after the workout. You know, just stuff like that to make them feel like, oh, you're not, you're not as tough as you think you are. That's so funny, dude.

Just the constant posture of the scene. Yeah. You want to be tough? This is how tough you guys. Just head butts the wall starts bleeding. Yeah. Hey, it's us, the Jonas brothers. And guess what?

We have some big news. What's the news? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a time. We're the first people to do podcasts.

Pretty. Yeah. a pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it.

Oh, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast where people could call in and say, hey Jonas.

and then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shake my behavior,

and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self-discovery, and returning to yourself. We explore higher consciousness, emotional well-being, and the practices that help you find clarity, peace, and self-mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming. The world is becoming lonelier. We're not becoming more social and connected.

We're becoming more individualized, but we actually meet people in connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And so you have second overall to the writers, correct? Yes. Who would the first pick that year? It was Eli. Well, it was the whole Eli, Philip Rivers Swamp of San Diego.

That's right. So you're sitting there in the background going, I know I'm not going number one. Let me just sit back and hit this two, no problem. Right. Yeah. And leading up to it, right, it was this, you know, Eli's saying pre-draft, right? We're in New York. I ended up going to New York.

You know, I'm probably not going to go there. And I'm like, you know, I'm the smart ass in the back. I'm like, shit. I'll go number one. I don't give shit, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you don't want to go there, I'll go there. Right.

You know, not knowing where I would end up thinking more four, five. But it was, you know, that was great because that took a lot of the media attention. Right. I'm a small kid from, you know, small town Iowa. Went to New York for the experience. Took my family. We were a fish out of water, right? My family did not belong in New York.

It was a fun experience, but we were just, you know, all that took away the, you know, took all the media attention. So that was great. That's awesome. When you're going, when you're going into Oakland to that franchise and you're coming from Iowa where you had a lot of success, what was your first years of experience like in a place like Oakland? Because you guys were pretty bad.

Like the Oakland Raiders were pretty bad. You guys very much the entire time you were there. Yeah, it was, you know, going in, I'm sure, like for you guys, the first year was just, for me, it was just the joy of playing football and getting paid for it. I mean, I didn't matter. We were four and 12, I believe, my first year. Didn't matter what the record was. I remember walking out in Denver. It's nuking snow, right?

I'm in a cut off T-shirt. And it's nuke and snow. I just remember thinking, I get paid to do this, right? That was kind of the first year for me. Like, holy cow. Like, the wins and losses didn't affect me as much. just like, holy shit, like I made it to here. I get a paycheck.

I get to come do this every day. But, you know, as time went on, like you guys know, the wins and losses count, you know, and they matter. Yeah. You know, and it messes with you. But yeah, we had a ton of turnover, right? We talked to had five head coaches in seven years when I was there. So that part of it, it was tough because every year you start over.

Like every team does every year, right? You guys talk about it on your show. Well, we're shooting for big things this year. Right, right. And every year, you know, you got to. buy into that well in the division with the Super Bowl coach is gone oh let's learn a new offense let's earn a new system so it was it was fun to be a part of that organization and in you learn you know you only know what you know right you know how it was done there so it met a bunch of great guys

and you know there's some great memories but you do it to win right and it's just unfortunately there wasn't a lot of much at all winning you know during my career there when you're a second overall pick and you're starting to stack like as a team bad year you're you're given everything that is known about Robert Gallery, when are certain moments of pressure starting to affect you differently, whether it was expectation living up to being a second overall pick? When was that starting to take place for you as you look back on your career? I think going into my third year, so third year, a new head coach, right? They brought back Art Shell out of retirement from 20-some years, right?

So we have our offensive coordinator. Hey, I know, coached. He was retired for 20 years? Yeah, yeah, and coached, I think it was for almost 20 years. Classic Al Davis move. It's not working? Let's go back. We're going to fire the second eight coach.

This is the guy. Sometimes you go forward, you have to go backwards. And then, you know, so it is, you know, it is what it is, right? Our offensive coordinator was running a bed and breakfast in Idaho, I think, right? So I think that was the year that it was like, oh man, right? And it was, you know, it was tough, right? So we're putting stuff in. And I think that was year.

I didn't play well that year. You know, had, you know, Jackie Slater came in as a line coach. and Jackie is one of the best players to ever play, right? But he had a certain way, and it was one of those to where you're going to do it this way. I tried to do that way. It didn't work, and I did not play well. You know, it was injured, did not play well. So I think that was a year.

It was like, you know, so then that's media's coming on. And that's part of it. You want to do well, but it was, you know, I'll admit, I struggled that year, right? Trying to do the straight sets back and the thing I'd never done and what I got successful at. So at that point, it was, yeah, it's tough, right? And we're one and, I think we're two and 14 that year. You know, it was just bad, right? So, you know, you're adding year after year.

And as you guys know, right, there's, you know, the new guy comes in. They're supposed to, you know, save the franchise or, you know, that's the expectation, right? The unrealistic expectation. And then when you're not playing, well, when stuff goes bad, it goes bad, right? As a team, right? We all looks, that's what was great at Iowa. When we were doing good, I looked so good because I had four other dogs next to me on the line, right? And we were just that good that it made Robert Gallery look that much better.

Right. So when you're, you get in those other situations, yeah, it's tough and you want to win, right? And you don't want to year after year be starting over. So some of the expectation stuff. And then, you know, media, you know, now you got NFL network and all this stuff. And it's like, now it's in your face, right? And now you're around NFL fans. And they're great. Love NFL fans, right? But they're also seasons going bad. They're leaving a note on your door telling you to get out of town. It's like, oh, this is a little different deal. Yeah. And when you met your wife at Iowa, she played basketball there. She comes with you to Oakland, I'm assuming. How is she handling? How is she handling? this pressure with you as like you're getting this third year you're starting to think am i get another contract like the excitement of getting paid in the league is kind of like now dwindle down this is part of what you do now it's like i need to exceed this type of expectation i have in my own head to get this new contract because that's the new standard i have for myself people are leaving notes like how is your wife and you handling this as a couple in oakland when you guys are from iowa i think it's just we just figured it's part of the gig right it's like you know we get it right losing winning helps everything yeah for an organization for a person uh but yeah where there

tough times and you know nobody in that organization was happy that was year in and year out right so it we dealt with it uh you know like everybody else right it was just back to work i didn't try and put too much thought into it like but like we do we get on something and you you know it bothers you because you want to be successful you want your team to be successful you want to right and i just kept going deep you know after the third year i went back and trained with with doyle and dobson i went to i was sitting lived at my buddy's house and and trained with those guys two days, two times a day. And just kind of going back to the, you know, the things that made me successful.

And, you know, then the next year, Tom Cable comes in and, you know, great coach. And, you know, things get back. We're doing better as a team. You know, he's my style of play. So you just, I don't know, you don't really dwell on it. You don't have time to think about it. You just do what always made you successful. And that's just go back to work.

At what point in your career was it, was the image starting to shift? from he's going to be our savior drafting him second overall to where the noise of bust and he's not playing well. Is that popping up going into the third year? Like when you're like when you're explaining that, you know, people are leaving notes on your door or now it's in your face? Like what are the moments that you're thinking about to where you felt like the shift was now starting to come like I have to fucking play better, this pressure, this expectation starting to come with all this? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's probably that third year, right? Because it was bad. I mean, it was offensively. It was terrible.

for everyone, you know, as a team. So after that, that year, I think some of that was, right, you get, you know, now NFL networks and I don't remember the guy. I don't even know where the guy is now, or, but Jamie Dukes was on there. You guys probably don't remember him. I recognize the name. So he was on NFL network and that's the first time I saw. I happened to be watching NFL network and he's, you know, we're one and eight at this time.

And, you know, he came on and, you know, was bad mouthing us. And it's like, oh, that's like, he's talking about me. Yeah. You know, so it was, you know, after that year. But then, you know. In the moment, I, like, if stuff's like written in, it's like at me, I know as a, as a player and you're seeing it for the first time, like, you're enraged. Right. Like, I would be like, I'm just thinking these cops.

Well, in the world, we grew up in, too. It's like, we had the social media was in full force. So, like, you go after a game and you make the mistake of putting your name in the search bar. And you see all the comments, man, you see, maybe you have a good game. You see seven comments are like, this guy had a good. game you're like that's kind of nice but then you see two or three that are like this guy sucks he got beat on this play and you're like dude they're right like there's a piece of you that like agrees with them or whatever we're thinking like I wonder if my coaches secretly feel this way right

because that's really like ultimately you're you're wanting to please your teammates you want to please your coaching staff because you know how much work you put into it and just that little bit of the outside noise now would now have me thinking I wonder if my coaches like I wonder if these conversations are being had in the coaches rooms and they're just you know You know, it's not coming out to me in front of me, but you just start playing these weird, these terrible assumption games. Right.

It just starts infiltrating your mind. Dude, we had a, it was 2018. I just got off a suspension. Was it 2018? I was spending it? Yeah. 2019. 2019.

I got off suspension. We played the bills. And we ended up losing that game. It was like a field goal game, like 12 to 9. They ended up beating us. After the game, our head coach Mike Ravel,

his notes were like somehow publicly brought to everyone's iPads. So you could see the notes that Vrable put on the players. And the first play of the game, we ran like this play action pass. We throw a ball down the field, 15, 20 yards. I run down, hit a guy late in the pile. I get a penalty. It brings us back. And the note of Rable had was, why are we paying him this much?

And I remember seeing that note just being like, I want to kill myself right now. It was the word, because you're already suspended. You're coming back and it's like the worst feeling. So it brings up all those like, do the coaches really feel about me this way? Yeah. And you're just like, man. Yeah, the good of the. bad because it's funny and that's when you learn about like mental health right you didn't

think of it back then but it was like you read that stuff or you hear then you are start doubting yourself and you press harder but then you know after you know coach cable came in ran the system that I was used to like we had a lot of success moved to guard was playing really well yeah your six five and six and seven right and after the season he's like oh you know if we would have won more games you would have made the pro bowl I'm like oh so that's great thanks but You know, it's the same thing. It's like, oh, great. So, you know, people recognize I'm playing real well, but we were four and 12, right?

So if you take this, it was a double-sided compliment. I was like, oh, that's awesome. And it's like, well, that sucks, right? Because we didn't win, you know, because we didn't win games. Like, so you know you're playing at a high level, but it's like, eh, but it doesn't really count. You know what I mean? So, like the mental warfare of all that stuff. And, dude, you had so many different personalities.

Like, obviously the owner has his own unique personality. You had Jerry Rice, your rookie year, your, your Marcus Russell. I think Lane Kippen was your coach at one point. Like it had to be very unique walking in this locker room and seeing all these different characters. Like, what was Jamarcus Russell like? When you said that, I'm like, oh, shit, you play with Jamarcus Russell? Dude, that's the classic, they gave him a playbook right with like a $100 bill at the end of the playbook. And he like never opened it up or something like that.

Yeah, something like that. Or they be able to tell. There was nothing on the film. Game a blank. Yeah. Yeah. The story is they gave him a blank disc to watch film. Yeah, it was, you know, part of it you, you know, I have compassion now for a young kid coming in as anointed the, you know, coming out of

He's anointed the guy, right? And not everyone, again, this is where we're old now or I'm old because I think of it compassionately about, I had a great family and a great, you know, my mindset coming in. I knew certain things where you see certain kids coming now, right? And it's, they don't have maybe the mindset you do or the upbringing or, and I'm not saying Jim Marcus had a bad upbringing. I'm just saying his life experiences. So he comes in, he's anointed this guy, right?

He's driving a Rose Royce and, right? All stuff I would. not do. It was all the thing of making it to the NFL. And it was, you know, it was obviously a tough go. We had a, we had a lot of personalities come through there, right? You know, we had, you know, Warren Sap played with Warren Sapp, right? Warren was there at the end of his career. Just, you're walking into this locker room and it's like, man, we are different people, which is cool, which is cool for, you know, NFL locker rooms. Yeah. But it's also some of the stuff. What was Warren Sapp like? Warren and I got along. Well, Warren was great. Warren was not afraid to, to voice his

opinion, good or bad to somebody. But, you know, I'm still a young guy. I think my favorite guy of all time was Ted Washington. So Big Ted was there, my rookie year. And Ted was the, I don't know how Ted is now, Ted was the biggest human being I've ever seen, right? He puts his hand down at detackle first OTAs. And he looks at me, he goes, don't fucking touch me or I'll kill you.

So I'm a rookie and I'm like, well, I got to go. So I'm back and forth. Like, what am I going to do here? But I remember seeing his hand look like a bear paw, right? He put it down in the ground. So same thing, right? High school to college, college to the pros. And I'm like, how am I supposed to block this human being?

And he just told me he's going to kill me if I touch him. So I block him. And he grabbed me and he's like, I told you don't touch me. Right. But Ted was the greatest guy in the world. He was just his personality, you know, Tyrone Wheatley, right? Tyrone was blocked for him. So some of these guys, when I was especially a young guy, they were just, that stuff I'll

never forget. And the guys that I looked up doing this, this was a badass, right? Tyrone would tell him to get out on my way. I'm going to run through the middle of your spine. And he would, right? He would not cut around you. He would not cut around you. He would come right through you.

But those experiences in the locker room that made it fun because coming from a small town in Iowa, right? We had, you know, experience in diversity at Iowa. But, you know, coming from where I came from, I go to Oakland and it's just a different deal. Yeah. You know, I remember my rookie year, I had an old hoopty, had old four-door buicklasaber that I drove in college.

So I took it with me, right? And I'm at a gas station. off a 98th Street getting gas because it's cheap right and I'm pumping gas and one of the guys on the team black guy stopped and he's like what are you doing here I'm getting gas I got to work out he goes look around buddy like you're the only white guy here like you should not be getting gas here and right so it's like this big world for me it's like oh copy right yeah yeah yeah he was dead serious right but but it was like oh he's like looking out for you guess I'm not in Iowa anymore right yeah it's so it's funny there's experiences like that and then like

that bond that I created with him, he's like, I got you. Like, there's certain parts you, you know, you don't go here. You don't drive through, right, for whatever reason, right? This is, this is not where you grew up in Iowa. Those relationships in the locker room were awesome. You, uh, so at, like, at what point in when you're in the league are you starting to deal with some of these, like, mental things? You talked about the shoulder early in your career. That comes out your first day at Iowa. Like, you have these injuries, these ailments that essentially, like coaches, just like playing football, like they're going to give you the medial dose pack. They're going to give you the pain pills. Like, we need you to play.

So here's the Band-Aids over and over again. And obviously, a big reason why you're here is a lot of the mental health stuff and all the things you have had to go through. At what point in your career did you start to feel these things taking a toll on your body and mind? Yeah, I think, you know, two, three years in and start having some injuries, right? Like I was a warrior in college, never missed anything. Never missed a game.

Never missed practice. Right? When I went to the combine, gave my medical sheet, there was nothing in there because I never missed anything, right? Yeah, I had injuries. I broke my hand, but I didn't miss stuff. Right? So like everybody else, you, your body,

breaks down or you have an injury I had a search start having surgeries right so that stuff's wearing on your on you mentally right you know three four five six seven surgeries in some of them big ones some of them little ones uh and then as you know year four and five as you know i was like you right like i love the dirty part of the game within the rules but the dirty part the late cleaning up piles the the the chop blocks to all the stuff to slow a guy down from how he was going to play and so as these things are happening right you're getting them off the ground after trying to cut someone and you catch them on the side of the knee and you're like, oh, you know, staggering drunk getting back to the, to the line.

Right. You know, you got your bell rung. Someone notices that you're like, oh, that's a shoulder. Yeah. You always got, there's always your guy in the corner that has your back. For sure. If you get your bell run a little bit. Yeah.

And so as those things started having more lasting effects, that's what I didn't notice, especially, you know, year six, seven, eight. That's when, especially in year eight, I'm like, well, you know, got my bell rung, right? And I didn't have a clue what was going on, right? And I did. I had a knee injury. earlier that year, ego, right? So I knee injury, missed a game. And I come off and they're, you know, that's when they started taking the helmets or, you know, if they took your helmet, you were out.

And I remember stagging off like, it's my knee. It's my knee, right? Because I'd miss the game for at MCL. And he's arguing with me. I'm like, it's my fucking knee. Right. Like, I'm fine. And, and so that went back in and it just wasn't all there. So those, those times to where then you get home and you're dizzy and, you know, the brain fog and all the things, you know, it was part of the game you know that's that's what I thought it was it was part of it was I was a guy like like you like you that was not coming out it a lot had to happen for me to come out of the game right like a major injury to where there's physically you can't go yeah the Euro lineman from Iowa yeah that's what made you successful when the long hair got

the cutoff tea like absolutely no middle of winter yeah yeah yeah so as the that's the years one I noticed that stuff and then like everybody else right like you're trying to make it to the next week You know, you're eight, I'm, you know, you're doing what you got to do to make it to the next week, right? The tortell shot, you know, I tell everyone, without tortell shots, I couldn't have kept playing. I don't know if you guys could get the shot. Oh, better, yeah. They were, they were, towards the end of my career, were trying to make it so you couldn't get the shot.

You had to take the pill. Pill didn't work. And they would say the pill works faster than the shots. Yeah, no. That is actually true. Yeah. You know, there was days. Once you get that shot, too, you just feel like you, you know, life changes.

You went back in time. Oh, absolutely. Right. And so that was just, to me, it was just part of it. But as the, you know, six, seven, eight, I noticed that stuff. And then then I noticed other things, right? The not only injuries and the surgeries, right? You're going into, you know, surgery seven, right?

Whether it's a, you know, ankle scope, elbow scope or having my back fused, right? That's some major, major injuries and major surgeries. Was it back fusion the biggest one? Yes. Yep. So that was, you know, year six, you know, came back. But, yeah, you know, they pull your back open. They put rods and stuff in there.

But yeah, you just rehab and get back to work. That was part of it. But coming out of those surgeries, I don't want to do this anymore, right? You're going for a scope and they're going to put you under. And you're just like, I just don't let me wake up, right? Because it just wears on you. You're not tough. It's like, you know, it's like a hangover, right?

You can't handle the hangover as much. So, you know, as time went on. It was that. And then I noticed it, you know, after games, I'd get in the car and my wife would say something. I'd lose it. Right? And so I'm just thinking, this is just me, right? I care about our team.

I care about success, right? To me, it was like, you win or lose. It's black and white, right? And that was how my mood was. So good or bad, I never was able to handle the losing very well. Because it meant a lot, right? Like you guys, the stuff meant a lot. Like, you don't, you know, the paycheck's great, but the winning is why we do this.

So I noticed things with that where my trigger getting, you know, snapping, right, for no reason. Or she said something. And now I'm dealing with kids. You know, my daughter's at home and something happens. and I just notice a switch goes off to where things go kind of dark. So that's when I kind of started noticing that stuff, but never really dealt with it until after I retired. No, when you're trying to deal with it, what are things that you're doing that nobody else

is seeing to where you're trying to mask some of the, whether it's pain? Like were you getting in the pain pills heavy? Like were you drinking, like things that your wife might not have been seeing at the time to when you look back and kind of check yourself, you're like, man, I was really kind of off the rails and nobody understood it. Now, she knew it was going on in what I was doing. You know, I feel like I did it within the lines. Yeah, but painkillers, you know, the sleeping pills didn't work to go to sleep.

So then you're taking percocet instead, right? It was just anything to like, I need to sleep, right? I get done with a game. My body hurts. Sleeping pill doesn't work. So 30 beers and three percocet, four percocet, this is going to make me go to sleep. Right? So what was something, 30 beers.

Yeah. You know, that was the coping, right? And it wasn't an everyday thing, but it was like you guys. I'm sure I was in extremes, right? No matter what I was doing is extreme. So if I'm going to sit on and drink, I'm going to drink 10, 20 beers. Like, that's what you do, right? He's as fast as you can, not trying to, not knowing it, but it's like drinking cups

of water, right? And so then it was the same with whatever you can do to feel better. And so she noticed things and it was, you know, more surgery. So then it's taking painkillers and, you know, trying to get them to work better. So you have a couple drinks. Nothing that I was hiding. but definitely it was abusive, right? And it wasn't the right way to deal with them,

but also, you know, you had to do what you had to do to get to the next game to be able to play. You know, I mean, that was my mindset. Right. You know, I'd do it all over again. And there's so many different ways you can justify it too when you're like trying to get to the next game. Like you're taking care of your family.

At this point, I'm assuming you have kids. Like you want to, this person is asking for this type of help. And you're like, I have to help all these people around me. And if I don't get to play, I don't get to get paid. So I have to do these things. This is why it's okay for me to take these pills and drink these beers. Right. So there's always something you can tell yourself to keep that kind of decision-making

progress going that way. And I don't think it was, you know, was it abusive in those moments, right? Is it normal and not abusive to drink 15, 20 beers after a game? It's probably to a normal person abusive. But that's very common between us, right? Right. It wasn't like away games. Yeah.

Guys on the flights, they have cases of beer right under them. It wasn't every single night of the weeks. The hogs, yeah, drinking beer is like, yeah. That's a very normal thing. That's what we did. So, you know, it wasn't abusive? Yes. But it was also that's part of being a young guy.

It wasn't every single night I was doing that. Right? But you just, right, there's also the business side of it. You're getting older. You're making a bunch of money, right? If you miss games because you're hurt. I mean, we know the business side of it. So you're like, I got to do whatever I got to do.

Like this paycheck is nice. I'm trying to set my family up for life. Right. So whatever I got to do, right? Whether that's taking Perkissette to go to sleep instead of painkiller or instead of sleeping pills, great, I'll do it. Right. You're not thinking about what it's doing to your body.

But it's, yeah, it's part of the business. Like this, there's going to be a business decision at some point here, right? So I got to do whatever I can to make sure I can keep playing. Right. How long did you, how long did you play? Eight full seasons and then went to camp, retired in camp my ninth year. Okay. Retired in what year and ninth year?

In camp. Yeah, I went to camp. I got released from Seattle. Signed with New England, went there, and it was just, you know, had my ninth and tenth surgery before, after that year in Seattle or during. Went there and my body just wasn't there. mentally I was I was gone right I was it was but physically I was like I can't move like I'm trying and I got to an organization sign with an organization the holy cow right like this is a winning

organization this is what I've won in my whole career right so wanted to and I my standard wasn't my standard at that point and so a couple weeks in the camp I went in and it was like you know coach I appreciate the opportunity but it's time for me to be done and it was the mental part too I mean it was yeah you know what was going on but what was going on all encompassing because I'm assuming that conversation was probably very hard. Yeah, it was, you know, it was the physical part to where I'm, I'm struggling to move, right? Trying to be fluid and, you know, so ego comes in because I'm like, I am not what I used to be, right? And I can't move or you're getting, you know, getting beat at practice.

And it was like, oh, my God, can I do this? And then, you know, the mental part of it was equally as tough, right? There was points and not a, you know, it's hard to say, but there was a point where I'm like, I wish I'd just blow something out so I could be done. right and that's where how bad it had gotten mentally because I didn't you know I felt like if I retired chose to retire then it you know then I was quitting or I was it was it was this this ego thing right that's but if something happened it could just be like oh you had to right and so that mental part of it it's you know you're in a because I remember running I kept pulling stuff and

my body hurt I remember doing the conditioning test I'm like I wish I just blow an Achilles so I could be done I'm like you know so now you're now you're judging who you are as a person like you're a coward like who says that to themselves right right but that's the mental side of it that going into that year and it was taking painkillers to get out bad just couldn't move and decided like you know the good part is i you know i was with it enough to know that i don't want to be this i don't want to be the guy that does this till he's non-functioning and i felt like that's where it was leading and so i had the conversation with coach there and it was like i think this is best for both of us you know because i was i was like i don't want to waste your time like you're not getting

what i was a few years ago yeah Did you quickly after you, quickly or maybe not quickly, did you, after you decided to retire, did you have this identity crisis of like, okay, what am I? Who am I now? For sure. Yeah, you get home and, you know, I chose, you know, I chose to be done. But now you're home and you're watching your buddies still play, right? They're still going to practice. You're trying to, you know, can't turn the TV on when you're home because you're like, oh, I should still be doing this, right? I should be there with them. Because I'm sure at some point your body starts to feel better.

And you're like, you know what? Maybe I could do X, Y, and Z. And then you pop on a game. Like, why aren't I doing this? Right. Yeah. So it was definitely the identity. I remember screaming at my wife one day. I was, you know, I'm not a I'm not an F and stay at home dad, right? Because I was trying to let her do her thing. Her whole life, you know, my whole career was everything for me, right? She took care of the kids. Like you like, you like, what am I? Right? And I just remember like, who, what am I? What am I? Right? And that's terrible to say that. Because I'm proud to be a father. Right. But you're this identity, like, I'm not a stay at home dad every day. This is not what I do. So yeah, that's tough. I think we all go through that. And then you're dealing with other stuff on top of that, you know, mentally that, the, you know, mentally that the, you know, the. that doesn't have you thinking clearly, that makes it even harder. And now, you know, like you said, now you're, now I know I don't have to go to practice. So now I'm at my buddy's drinking beer, you know, three nights a week, right?

Right. So now, now I need to lose weight because I don't need to be 320 pounds. So I'm drinking tequila instead because my body can process it better. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But drinking the same volume with tequila that, you know, when I was drinking beer, right? So it's this whole thing that this transformation and you wonder who you are, what should I do? And, you know, what am I going to go get a job, right?

you've been making all this money, right, getting these big checks. And I'm going to go, you know, I like old cars. I'm going to go work at my buddy's shop. I'm going to go San Bondo for $25 an hour. You know what I mean? It's like this ego. Yeah. Yeah.

And now I'm 30 some years old. And I don't want to, you know, go get a job and, you know, work with a bunch of 20-year-olds, right? So it's this whole ego and identity of who you are and what you were. And that's what you did your whole life. That's all you knew, right? That's what we did. And then you get done. like oh shit they ain't calling like when you say you're done you're done right right i'm not in a band

where we can go to the local bar and just keep playing yeah right like when you're done with the sport that's it what was the what was the breaking point to start diving into your mental health and figuring out that there could be a lot more going on i think the breaking point for me as time went on so now we're three four five years post retirement and all these reactions and in moods and all these things got more intense. So now my kids are laughing or giggling at the breakfast table and I lose it, right? I go from zero to 2000 and I'm so angry and smashing my fist on the table to get them to be quiet. But I'm also realizing that, hey, this is not a normal reaction, right? So why did that that just happen? Right. So it's instance after instance. And I'm coping with with alcohol,

right? Not every day, not every week. But what I did, it was how big of a bottle of tequila did I have? Right. You know, we go to the kids, the fundraiser for the school, right? I was socially, I didn't, you know, I was, I'm not a social person, you know, even before all this, right? I would always, you know, I had social anxiety. I didn't like the, even in college, I didn't like all the attention, right? When everything's great and everybody's like, you're the greatest ever.

I didn't like the attention, you know, for the good or the bad. And so now we go to school fundraisers and, you know, I take my bottle of tequila with me because the stuff they serve at the bar I don't like, right? So that makes a lot of sense. right so now it's you know doing things like that so and i'm realizing these things as they happen i'm like this is not normal behavior that i took my own tequila brand in because the bar doesn't serve it yeah you know and then i'm having these reactions to my wife or the kids we went to dinner one night her my mother-in-law was in town and i just remember it because of the reaction i had

we walked in and my wife's like oh let's sit inside so we're waiting for the lady to see this and then she said oh the sun came out we should sit outside and i remember going dark i mean i I wanted to strangle her, and I hate to say that. But I was so angry that she changed from wanting to sit inside to outside, and I had no idea why I was happening? I'm like, why am I reacting like this? So in my head, I'm fighting myself. Because, I mean, it doesn't make sense, right?

You guys literally, you're like, why would that trigger you? Yeah. It made zero sense to me. So these things- How's your wife reacting when you're having these reactions and knowing that we're kind of, we're kind of in a song and dance around dad right now at times? You know, honestly, at the time, I think she saw as an asshole, right? I don't think she understood. She didn't understand why things were happening.

You know, when someone does that, you'll be like, what is wrong with him, right? These are me popping off or getting upset with days I'm fine. And all of a sudden, I'm just either super depressed or super angry. I mean, anger more than you should have, right? Stuff that shouldn't set you off. So it was tough because I think she was like, what is going on, right? She also knew I was going through stuff, right? Being done.

She knew, you know, the injuries and those things took a toll. But so the rock bottom, I think. was a couple instances like that to where I'm like, you know, I'm aware of all this, right? Because then I feel like the biggest piece of trash on the face of the earth because I lose my stuff because my kids are laughing, right? Or I'm sitting in a chair, like, you know, envisioning hurting them or or making it stop. And I'm like, I'm a terrible human being. And so I think that was rock bottom for me when I'm having these thoughts.

And then then I'm beating myself up because I'm like, they're better off without me. Right? Like this is this is who I am. This is not a life for them. I love my family. It's the greatest family on the face of the earth. I love my wife. She's, you know, she's been through it all with me. But I'm like, they don't deserve this. They're better. They're better off without me. And so, you know, it happened to be a morning we were working out. We always worked out in the morning and broke down in our driveway. I was just, I remember sitting down and she's like, you're okay. And I just start bawling. And I'm like, I need help. Like, because all this stuff had been going through my head. And I hadn't told her. She knew I was struggling. She saw, she saw, these outbursts, she saw all these things that happen. But in my mind, I'm like, I shouldn't be here. Like, they're better off. They don't need to see their dad losing his shit over nothing. They don't need, I don't need to be this depressed guy sitting in a chair shaking because I think something else is going on. Right. And so that was probably rock bottom. It was rock bottom for me. And the fact that I actually asked her for help. And I just remember saying just in tears, like, I need help. I'm struggling. I don't, I think I'm losing my mind. You know,

So that was kind of the start of it. And so, you know, just happened to be at the same time that through my workers comp case, you know, I'm going through that whole process, which is great, you know, 10 years later. But they had me get a brain scan. So going to get a brain scan. And this was a very close in proximity to when I asked for help, you know, I asked her for help. I reached out to a couple friends that, you know, had been through, you know, been through their own stuff to like, hey, I'm struggling. Like, you know, how do you deal with this?

But I get this brain scan. And that's when it was really kind of the aha moment because they pulled up my brain scan. He's like, you know, all these symptoms you're having, the rage, the anger, the depression, the this, or that. Right. And then put up a healthy brain on there and then put up my brain. You know, it was a spec scan at the time. And it was, you know, it looked like someone had taken a baseball bat to it. Right.

And so my wife was there and I remember her, she's crying. Obviously, because you look at it and I started laughing. And she looked at me and she's like, what the fuck are you laughing at? She was obviously mad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I just said, I'm not crazy. Because I thought to that, at that point, I thought I was losing my mind. You're getting an answer.

Right. So I'm like, oh, this is the reason, right? And so, you know, I just, that sticks in my head. But that was the point where, you know, kind of my healing journey started. And I knew, hey, there's something going on. It's not just me. I'm not just an ex-athlet that can't handle being done that doesn't have an identity. Like, there is a physical issue that is causing these outburst and these thoughts and these

suicidal ideation and all these different things. And there's a reason it's happening. and now we got to either do something or continue the way we are. Did you ever get extremely close to killing yourself? I did, unfortunately. Yes. It got bad enough to wear with the, you know, suicide nightmares at night, and then it turned to suicidal ideation during the day to, you know,

I felt like I was a burden on my family, right? So you're having these thoughts that, and you see yourself acting in a certain way, and I'm like, they are better off without, and I believed it. I believed it. And I've told my wife on multiple occasions, you guys are better off without me. Here's all this stuff. Right? Because I'm aware of these reactions I'm having and I'm aware that I'm getting triggered by my kids to where or my wife to where I want, you know, like physically think I'm hurting them. Right. So now I'm sitting in a chair thinking I'm hurting them. And there's a couple instances. And she's like, what is wrong with you? And I'm literally sitting there shaking because I thought it was hurting my children. Never physically touched them. Thank God. Right. But the story in my head was that I was. So now I feel like I'm a terrible human being because I think, how could you have this thought about your children? Yeah.

And so, you know, not proud of it. There were times that I thought, you know, and a friend of mine that I met military friend, he ended up taking his life. He said it best. He said, nobody wants to commit suicide. They want the noise to stop. And that's what I wanted. I just say, I can't live like this.

I can't be around and function around my children and have these thoughts. I need the noise to stop. And there were, there were times. I had, you know, my pistol in my glove compartment of my truck. And I'm like, this would be really easy right here. right and and and so you know never never attempted it thank god but there are multiple times that it got to that point unfortunately and you know then it was like oh i'm everybody's going to think i'm a coward right so then it's driving down the highway and the internal dialogue it's just yeah yeah

then there's a semi coming all right well if i just swerve over in front of this semi i won't look like a coward right and so it was the the not thinking clearly part on top of all the other things that I'm affecting people that I love. I'm affecting them. And that's, but I wanted to be better. I wanted, I was aware of this. And so when that stuff started happening, that's, that's when I reached out for help. And that's what kind of started the whole journey.

When you're having, by the way, I'm sorry for asking that very bluntly, too. I was just kind of like listening. You started talking about the suicide ideation and everything else. And it's just, I'm almost just sitting here in my chair because I'm captivated by you storytelling. And I just had to know. I'm glad you asked it because I'm thinking, I wonder how I can ask it. And knowing that he, yeah, knowing that he's having the rage and the outbursts.

and I can only imagine the shame and embarrassment that you quickly have after that or people looking at you and you're telling these stories and you're shaking in your chair and then you're seeing on the scans like how badly in shape your brain has been and then once you said like the suicide ideation I'm just like yeah if you're you've already been saying

that they're better off without me I'm just thinking to myself like I wonder what he's meaning by that so then whenever I had that land I just need to I didn't know how to ask it either yeah no it's and the good thing is now I can sit here, right? And that'll be the rest of the story, but I can sit here and talk about it and not be nervous, right? Dude. In the past you, I'd be sweating because I'm like, yeah, it's every single day. Yeah. And so it's a very real part of it. And I don't think enough people talk about it. And that's,

you know, that's, that's real talk. Like that was, it was very, very close. I'm not proud of it, but that was part of the journey. And unfortunately for a lot of people, it gets that way. And if you, you know, you keep hiding it, that's, that's the issue. Yeah. And for you to be able to sit here and like have this conversation and talk about these super deep things so calmly it just shows how much growth that you've had and I'm sure there's people that are watching this that might struggle or struggle similarly that don't know how to put it into words so you could be absolutely helping somebody right now just by being as vulnerable as you are with two guys you just met hey it's us the Jonas brothers and guess what we have some big news what's the news

huge news we created our own podcast called hey Jonas we invented a podcast well we didn't invent it We just contributed to a... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it.

Oh, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing. a bit for the podcast where people could call in and say, Hey Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast.

But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior. And that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self-discovery, and returning to yourself.

We explore higher consciousness, emotional well-being, and the practices that help you find clarity, peace, and self-mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming. The world is becoming lonelier. We're not becoming more social and connected. We're becoming more individualized, but we actually meet people. and connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano and our podcast Point Game is about defining the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series

because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash will get that thing. That man, hell get to fly.

He running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball, like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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these outbursts with your children are laughing and you're slamming your fist or your wife uh you know she wants to go from inside to outside when you're like mentally having a hard time and having an outburst are you internally in your head in the moment being like hey why are you acting like this or is this, how long does it take for you to kind of realize, oh, I just did something that is not me. I wonder why that happened. Yeah, I think it was some of both. I think some of it, like I could tell when I went dark. My wife would say I went dark.

Like my eyes, she's like, your eyes were dead. And I could tell when your mood changed because like instantly everything went blocked. Yeah, a complete body language thing. And so I knew that in the moment because something would happen. And I remember just this anger. But I know, I'm like, why is this happening? Like, so I'm having that internal dialogue. Right.

But then it got to the point where I would have these moments and then get done, right? I, you know, times on my Harley. I'd get on my Harley to let loose, right, to get this stuff out of my head. And I'm doing 80, 90 mile an hour and a 35 down Lake Shore Boulevard in Lake Tahoe weaving through cars. And I remember, you know, in that moment, that's just what it was. It was like making it all stop. Right. And then I get to town and I'm like, what did I just do?

Right. I look back at the carnage behind me like, oh God, I was just doing that. Like, and knew it, but it was just in the moment. It was just like, we even in and out of cars on the side of the road. And I'm like, then all of a sudden it snapped back in. I'm like, oh, my God, what am I doing? Like, I'm going to kill myself. Like, and so a little bit of both, but it was, that was the hard part.

That's how it was hard mentally to cope with because there's times I'm like, I don't know what's going on or I snap out of something. And I'm like, oh, that's not right. Like, I know, did that just, I'd ask my wife, did that just happen? Did I just do that? Did I just have that reaction? She's like, yeah. You know, really?

And so that was a tough part. And that's what I think led to the other, the very negative thoughts because, you know, now you're doing this like, I'm going to hurt somebody. Like, I'm going to hurt my wife. I'm going to hurt my kids. I'm going to hurt somebody in the street. I'm going to, right, this is, this is getting bad. Did your wife ever express concern for her well-being or the kids' well-being, ever have

fear of that? I'm talking about it now. I don't know. I don't think now, did she walk on eggshells for a few years? Yes. If you ask her, I think she's like, I was never, for whatever reason. and I wasn't, I wasn't scared you were going to hurt us because I just didn't think that's who you were.

You know, and that's someone that really believes in you to be able to say that. Yeah. Because of my actions were showing difference. So she, was she scared? Yes. I think she walked on eggshells to make it so these things didn't happen, right? She talks about it to try and do these things so if she could see them coming to make them not as intense or to stop them all together.

Like kids start laughing, stop, I'll go out of the room, right? All these different things too. But I think were the reactions scary? Absolutely. Yeah. So luckily, I don't think, I just, you know, it's spiritual to say, but I think, you know, I think she knew who I was. That's what she said.

She's like, I knew who you were. I knew you, you know, I believed you wouldn't hurt us. Right. You know, but were we scared at times and nervous? Absolutely. Because the reactions were so intense. Yeah. Relatively strategic, too, about getting the kids out of the room.

No one was started to trigger you, starting to realize those types of things. Right. Very brave and strong on her part, too, absolutely. To see, like, the truth in you and to be able to, like, work through that with you and, like, let you go through your process. So when you guys are sitting there and you look at the brain scans, she's crying, you're laughing. She calls you an asshole and you're like,

you, there's a level of relief that you have because you're looking at these scans being like, I'm, this isn't just a me thing. This is something that's happened to me. So I have, I'm sure it was extremely settling for you to be like,

okay, like I see the problem now. Now I can work on a ways to resolve this problem. What is the first step you guys take when you're in this meeting room? How quickly do you start working on different therapies to help your brain. Instantly, right? Because I remember asking the neurologist and I said, well, is this bad?

You know, where is this on the level of bad? Right. And I'm sure you've seen worse. I'm sure you've seen better. And he goes, I've seen worse. This is pretty bad. Yeah. And I was in that just in that mode of.

Which in a sick way, I don't know how you felt in that moment. But for me, it's like when I like get blood work done or I like see my levels and all these things like I kind of want it to be really bad because I know like, oh, I can be this much better. Absolutely. So there's like a weird like sicko mode you kind of go into it's like make it as bad as it Right. And ego, right? I'm like, when I do something, I fucking do it.

Right. Now I can be the best at me. Look how much farther I've come. Right. Exactly. So, you know, I asked them that and they said, you know, not so many words said, you know, you have, you know, you have CTE, right? Like this is, you know, obviously you can't tell post-mortar and they pull your brain out.

They like, he's like, all the symptoms, your brain skin, you have CTE. And if you do nothing, you're going to become a statistic. Well, I knew what a statistic was in my wife's like, what does that mean? She's like, this leads to suicide. Like, this is these people that are having these reactions and gave examples of other guys. athletes, other people in the past that have done things, right? That's what a statistic is. So at that point, I'm like, okay.

And again, the all or nothing, I remember just feeling hope. So I'm like, well, let's do it. What do I need to do? He's like, well, you need stop drinking. You know, that was first thing. You know, alcohol is the worst thing in the world for your brain. Number one antidepressant in the world. You know, so I tried that.

I didn't do very well at it. I toned it down. But everything else they threw at me, I did. You know, they were, you need to be in a hyperbaric chamber, you know, every day for the rest of your life. They said, so I rented one. I did two hours a day for a month and a half to see. And then I ended up buying one, right?

Luckily through our retirement stuff and the reimbursement fund, I bought one. Yeah. So I'm doing that. I'm doing IVs. I'm getting on my levels checked, right? Because all my hormones are messed up, right? So I'm doing blood work every few days. I'm taking, you know, getting different IVs of different medicines that are supposed

to help with brain regeneration, figuring out my sleep, right? I couldn't sleep at night because I'd wake up and go back, couldn't go back to sleep. Well, sleep, learn that sleep is very big on brain health, right? Obviously. So learning that, right? Who would have thought? Yeah. Who would have thought that resting your body helps your body?

Right. Just the way he went to say it and as he's saying it, his mind's like, obviously. And you're like, but in the moment you don't think of that. I'm like, 100%. Like if you're not doing something and then you just someone just explains it, you're like, that makes all the sense. Yeah. Like that's a general statement.

But when you're learning the actual details and why it's so beneficial, that's like the aha. It's like the alcohol. Sleep's good for your brain. Sleep's good for you. It's like, oh, for real? Yeah. And you don't sleep when you drink a bunch.

It's like, oh, that's how I used to get to sleep. That's weird. How come I wasn't getting good restful sleep when I drink 10, 10 doubles of tequila? Yeah. Yeah. So doing all this, you know, any, like I said, anything they threw at me because I wanted to be better, right? And it was kind of hope for me.

I'm like, oh, okay, I'm again, not back to the, there's a cause. Like, let's fix it full war. Let's do it. So I spent a year and a half doing that. Anything they threw out me, you know, light therapy, anything I could to help with my brain health. And I'm seeing a therapist. So finally call, right? This is pre-brain scan, but it's not funny, but it is.

It's like, I need to talk somebody. Well, I didn't know how to get a therapist, right? The NFL offers that stuff. So I called the suicide hotline that they give us on our sheets. Called suicide hotline. They're going to hurt yourself. I'm calling it for a reason, but no, I'm not. Right.

And, okay, we'll get you a therapist. Well, it took them a week to get me a therapist that was covered through my insurance. I'm like, this is not the way. So I, you know, okay, I'm going to find something else. So got hooked up with somebody else. Got a therapist. So I'm doing all that stuff, right? Talking these things out, right?

Fired that therapist, right? Because I'm talking about like the, you know, the level that I'd take everything, right? Should you like, well, how much do you drink? Well, how big is a bottle? Like, I'm not trying to glamorize it, but, you know, I might drink once a week. But if I had the full bottle of tequila, I drink the whole thing. I was fine. That's the messed up part.

My wife's like, how are you functioning? Like, I'm fine. Like, I'm drunk, but I'm not stumbling. I'm not puking. I can handle it. All right.

So I'm talking about that. And I'm also talking about, oh, then I'm trying to cope. So I'm going to go on a bike ride. So I'll go on a, you know, whatever,

the longest bike ride I can to try and get my heart to explode, right? Because everything's an extreme. And he's like, well, that's not healthy. I remember saying that.

And I'm like, well, you don't get us then, right? Because we do everything in extreme. go for a nice little jog right no you go to like grind out all the bad stuff right right and so work through the therapy you know i'm i'm doing all these treatments and am i a little bit better yes you know five five percent better 10 percent better but i still having a ton of ideation right there's still days like i'm telling my wife again like like like when you go under and be like here's all

the stuff right like this i i can't be around you guys like this is and she's like what are you talking about right and I meant it I did because at that point I'm like I'm not a good father I'm not a good husband I can't barely function I'm trying to do I'm trying to get healthy and it's not working and so it happened to be I was started listening to military podcast I'm a huge military supporter you know my dad was in the Marines I just I have affection for those guys and what they've done and this like kind of like you guys like there are people right they think like us they see mannerisms they a little off yes yeah right and so I was listening to the team never quit podcasts that Marcus Littrell does. And I didn't listen to a bunch of them. Listen to because every story was like, okay, this guy made it. He did alcohol abuse, all the rage,

depression, all this stuff and tells their feel good story. And then it happened to be, listening to one of those in Marcus Capone, who was another, he actually played college football, and then was a 13 year seal. And he was on there talking about his journey.

And I'm like listening to it. And again, back to this moment to where I don't know if I'm really here, or not, I'm listening. I think that I'm talking in the radio. So I'm driving. We were still living in the Bay Area. It's time. I'm driving up to Tahoe to our cabin to give my wife and kids a break for me. And I remember listening to it. I'm like, I'm in the radio talking, right? And I'm like, oh, I'm losing my mind. Because I thought my voice was coming out of the radio. And I called

my wife and I was like, hey, I'm on the radio. What are you talking about? Like, listen to this podcast. It's me talking. Right? Because it was the story, all the stuff, TBI. And then it was his if I'm your wife. Yeah. I'm on the radio right now. I'm like, yeah, you are, honey. Yeah. Absolutely.

Well, it was, right. Funny, but that's funny now because she's like, yeah. I'm like, no, turn it on right now. She's like, okay, I'm putting the kids to bed. I'll listen to the podcast later. And, you know, it's, but in my head, I'm like, no, it's me. And she's like, man, you're off your rocker, right? Right.

But thank God, you know, I told her numerous times ago. I said, you should leave me. Like, you know, and I meant it because I'm like, I'm a mess. Like, this is happening, right? I'm like, this is not sane. the fact that I'm calling you and telling you that I'm on the radio. Right. And I mean it.

I don't just mean, oh, this is my story. I'm talking on the radio. Yeah. So I hear that. And then Marcus Capone and his wife are on there. And he went through all this stuff, right? So I'm like, holy cow, this is me. And then at the end, his story was, you know, he went to Mexico, did this psychedelic

assisted therapy with this drug called Ibogain. And I knew nothing about it. And then he's talking about his recovery and how it changed his brain fog and his mental clarity and took away all this, his ego and his rage and all these things that I'm like, oh shit. So for me, it was hope. I'm like, holy cow, there's something I can do because all this other stuff I've been doing for a year and a half is not working.

Yeah. And I'm like, helped a little bit, but nothing substantial. Right. And so listen to it. Call my white back. You got to listen to it. I'll listen to tomorrow. All right.

So I get to our cat. He's like, I crushed this podcast. I was good. I was good. So I reached out. So they had started an organization. called Vet Solutions and because he had healing and he wanted to help you know obviously with the suicide epidemic and with veterans he wanted to help his guys and so I'm like I'm gonna try so I get on the

web internet and get their website email them thinking no way but hey for that night I felt good like there's hope right next day I get a call from his people then Marcus and Amber Capone call me and we talk that day for quite a while and multiple days in a row and he's talking about all these things right he's like well hey there's there's other stuff you can do first like i did you know hyperbary therapy and this and this and i'm and i finally stopped like hey not to be rude hold my beer like yeah i've done all this like everything you're talking about i've done and so he was talking about this medicine you know drug uh and what it you know how it helped him and they had sent 200 guys 200 veterans so his organization deals with special op veterans them he put me in contact with

some of his guys who had gone through this treatment. And I'm like, there's no way, right? But he was talking about the brain fog. Because I had super bad brain fog, right? Just all day in a haze. And he's talking about how that goes away. And the ringing in my ears, right? I couldn't.

There was always a ringing, right? So on top of the emotional stuff, it was the actual brain stuff. And so long story short, we talk about it on and off for a week. And he's like, hey, I'm taking a group of my kind of well-known, you know, some higher profile veterans. There's four of them. we have one extra spot in three weeks. If you want to join, like you seem like a guy that would fit in with this.

And I think this will help you. And so I'm like, I'm in. Right? He's like, okay, well, we got to, you know, we need. There's a few things we got to do beforehand, right? Because you can. Before you go into that, at this point in your life, how much experience if you had with other drugs other than just marijuana, like psychedelics, different things?

Like, did you ever take part any of those things, like in college or NFL? To this point, none. So at this point none. Nothing. I'm on a phone and you're like, I'm in on trying this thing and I'm assuming TJ. Yes. Yep. I mean, I had smoked weed a couple times in my life.

It didn't work for me because I tried that when I was coping too. Like, oh, you know, Kyle Turley found healing through marijuana. I reached out to him, right? Like trying all these different ones. And it made me feel sick or I was out, right? Yeah, yeah. It wasn't, yep, it wasn't my thing. So I had zero experience, knew nothing about it.

Yeah, it helped shut it down for maybe momentarily. Right. Right. And so I'm learning about this. and he puts me on the phone with the doctors and they're explaining it. And at that point, I didn't care. I'm like, I'm in. But it was like, knew nothing about psychedelics and they're talking about the hallucinations, right?

I knew the, you know, I went through Dare, like I'm sure you guys did in elementary schools. You understand some of the stories. Right. I know, you know, the people that did psychedelics and jumped off the roof, right? Right. It's a scary story. Yeah, scary tactics.

Love Dare, by the way. So I have a Dare t-shirt. I actually bought one a few years ago. Dude, the Dare T-shirt still goes. I want a dare t-shirt. Yeah. This is awesome. So, yes.

Now, are you on prescriptions too before you go out there? Because you're obviously doing the hyperbaric, you're doing all these things. But I'm assuming working with therapists and doctors. There's probably some prescriptions. Yes, antidepressants. And that was part of the deal when he said, hey, we got us. So they put me in contact. And that's the thing about ibigane, which so ibigane is the highest power, highest

power psychedelic there is. So, you know, there's psilocybin. There's ayahuasca. It is here compared to here. I mean, it is the highest power. Now it also has, you know, if you're on, it can react with, SSRs. It can react with antidepressants and send you into cardiac arrest. So it can also kill you. And I'm like, it's all good. I'm fine. Right. Extreme. I don't care. If it kills me, it kills me.

It's better than the way I'm living right now. I mean, funny but not funny. But that's the way I was unlike. If it kills me, it was supposed to be because this way to live is not the way I want to live. And so, yes, I had to, that treatment was three weeks from that date. And they're like, you have to get off this, this and this. Right. So I was on a high power to antidepressant. And And so I call my doctor and she's like, you can't get off that fast. To me, you have to wean off this for months. And I said, you know, I remember the conversation. I said, is it going to kill me?

And she said, no, it's not going to kill you, but you're going to have bad side effects. Like, you're going to lose your mind. Like, it is, it is hard to come off this stuff. And I don't give a shit. If it's not going to kill me, hung up on her. You know, and I quit taking it. I did a half hell for one day. And I'm like, I got four days to do this.

I'm just going to stop taking it. So I get, you know, but my wife knew, right? My friends knew. and I knew that there was going to be side effects. So my wife's... Are you in Tahoe by yourself still or are back home? We are living full time in Tahoe at this point. So we moved up there.

And so I'm there. My wife, you know, she knows. She knows what I told her. They said, oh, I'm going to have effects from this. And so her and a couple friends are checking on me, right? My buddies would come over at five in the morning to make sure I was okay and because I always got up super early and worked out. And she's working me through this.

But I had huge side effects. I mean, I showed up at my buddy shop. my buddies are steelworkers like old school metal foragers younger than me but they do the old school way and i remember showing it up at their their shop just raging didn't know how i got there and just losing losing my shit and i don't know how i got here and almost did it and they're like whoa and i learned later they're like oh dude you scared us right so this is during that process of what i'm weaning off of you know when i went cold turkey on these medicines so they got me through it. You know, my wife got me through it. And then, you know, three weeks later, I get on a plane

to San Diego meet up with this group and then to go down to Pestiawana to go get this treatment. Jesus. That is fucking wild. I would have been terrified. Yeah. The metal workers. Oh, no doubt. Rob is on one right now. We've been around somebody with a manic episode before and it's like, you really don't know how to handle it. Yeah. One later, I asked them in there, because I remember it, because I remember losing it, but they were like, you know, I came back after healing and then was like, hey, what happened that day? Because I, you know, recalled it and relived it in my treatment. But, and they're like, oh, God, you skip shit out of us, like, and told me what happened. I'm like, oh, God. I'm like, you know, then I kept asking my wife, what else did I do, right?

Like, what did I do at home? You know, so it was kind of one of those, like, funny but not funny, but I'm like, oh, God, like, you kind of forget how bad stuff was. But yeah, they were, they were like, oh, you scared us. Like, they're working class, they're dudes, and they're like, we were frightened. Yeah. Yeah. You can only imagine you're a guy saying you're on a podcast. This is prescribed, Rob.

Say you're on a podcast. Tell them the therapist, is it going to kill me? No. Click hang up. Quick, cold turkey. We don't know what kind of side effects are about to come out of Robert's gallery right now. Yeah. So you, okay, you fly to San Diego.

You meet up with Marcus the Trell and four or five other high-profile vets. Yeah. You guys get in a van, head down to TJ, just south of TJ. Like, are you in the middle of the desert? Like, talk me through this entire process. Yeah. As if I'm going to go take it as well and you're giving me the map to it. Yeah.

So it was. It was full circle. So I listened to all the Marcus's podcast. And then I get there and he's come out with this story. We've been on his podcast. We've talked about it. Right. So I'm not, nothing that is not out there.

But I remember walking in. I'm like, holy shit. I'm out of my mind. Right. Like, I'm like, just trying to survive to get to this treatment. I'm like, oh shit, that's Marcus at Trell. I remember going up to him like, idiot. Hey, I don't know if you like doing your podcast, but it saved my life a few times, like, listening to it.

And I remember looking at me and look back down. That was in. Right? And so all these guys are in the same boat on there, right? Getting off all their 60 pack from the VA. So getting a van, drive us through Tijuana. You know, we go to a, you know, a gate. It's a nice spot, gated community.

But we're going through Tijuana, right? And I'm like, where? Right. So now I'm like kind of sobering up. And I'm like, you know, so you go in these episodes to where you're out of your mind, not thinking clearly to like, I'm fine. Like, I'm not really like that, right? That stuff didn't happen. I'm not, you know, I'm not suicidal.

I'm not this. And I'm driving through Mexico thinking, where am I going? Like, again, I've taken it too far. Now I'm driving through the hood of Mexico, right? And I get, that's probably playing up your story even more. Right. I'm not, I don't travel a ton and I'm like, I grew up a small town and I live in a small town. I'm not a world traveler, right?

So I haven't seen these other country. And I'm like, oh my God, where are we going? So take us to the facility. It's a negated community. It's a home. You know, it's just a normal house. And then we walk in and it's like a medical center, right? There's part of it that looks like a healing, you know, like what you think of a psychedelic

treatment center. Then we go upstairs and it's lay down, take a shirt off, blood test, make sure we're on nothing. EKG, check to make sure your heart's healthy, you know. So, you know, in case we're lying. You know, right? Because this medicine, they've told us, right? this stuff can counter, counteract with things and it can kill you.

Or if you have a weak heart or a heart problem, it's harder on your heart. And you're like three weeks cold turkey, right? Right. Right, right, right. Okay. So, you know, I'm scared. Now I'm scared. Like, what did I do?

I'm taking this too far again, right? So I'm now, I'm beating myself up again. Like, what are you doing? You're in Mexico in this random house with a bunch of Navy SEALs and fighter pilots, you know, these guys, what am I doing? Go through the process, you know, get checked in. They do all these tests. And then we all sit down and it's a, you know,

It's a therapy session, right? It's like, why are you here, right? And it's for whatever reason, you know, I wanted healing and I was very honest, as were these other veterans about why they were there, what they wanted to get rid of, right? That's part of the, this medicine is, in any plant medicine is, you know, take this from me. And I remember saying that, take this rage from me, take this self-hatred, take all these things, right? So there was ceremonies involved, right?

So we do a fire ceremony, you write the stuff down, you burn it, and then they hand you a cup with some pills in it, right? And it's, it's this, it's this medicine. It's a rip bark. It's an African root bark. It's in a capsule. And, you know, down the hatch. And then they take you upstairs to room.

There's five mattresses on the ground. Hook us up to the EKGs. Get us, you know, comfortable. And in this, then it starts, right? Waiting for the, for the medicine to kick in. How, what's the fear levels like? As you throw it down the hatchet, You go up, lay down on the bed.

It's like get comfortable. And at this point, you're just waiting for. I don't even know what I'm on. Because I'm thinking like, when I first envisioned this, it's like you're in the desert. Sicario type of vibes. Everyone's got like a handler type of thing. You're running around different places. But you're just laying down for this whole thing.

It is. This medicine is very, I mean, it melts you into the floor. You can get up and move. Not too many people are. You're either getting nauseous or, but it is, I mean, it literally feels like it melts you into the floor. There's not a lot of moving. And how quickly.

is this medicine taking place. Like, are you fasted at this point? Yes. So we hadn't eaten since breakfast that morning. And now, you know, so that's ate breakfast. And then this is 8 o'clock at night and we're taking it. So you're fasted. Gotcha.

And within an hour, you know, you start, I started hearing the buzzing. So I'm scared. Like, I'll admit, I'm in tears laying there like, you know, I guess either fix me or kill me. Right. Because I wanted healing at that point, right? And to me, it was the last ditch effort. I didn't know if this didn't work if I was going to make it. quite honestly because it just gotten bad again and I I didn't know if this wasn't the answer

because I tried everything right and so that was my thought during this well then you start having the reaction to the medicine right so there's and they tell you things that are going to happen but like this buzzing and then these feelings and I'm like and I don't like that right that's probably why I hadn't you know dare worked with me right I was scared of drugs out of control yeah and it's like this is you know I am very much like I like to control everything and now I'm out of control So it was super scary. And as it kicked in more and more, right now I'm panicking and like my heart's racing. I'm not going to die.

And so all these things and they're great. They work you through this. You have therapy sessions before they have coaching to tell you how to deal with that. So I just like, you know, they had told us just be curious and just give in. So I just did this breathing stuff they taught us. And then the medicine fully kicked in. And so now, you know, you have eye shades over your eyes. You're laying on the ground.

and now there's buzzing and now there's now I'm seeing lights and I'm like, holy shit, my first experience with psychedelics, right? So I'm seeing these lights coming in. And then all of a sudden I see things and they kept telling us, be curious, right? So you have a therapist next to you, right? And I'm like, you know, I'm seeing this. And they're like, just, you know, be curious to go look at it. And, you know, so I'm in this mask.

And so I know I'm taking my mask off to make sure I'm still in the room, right? Guys are puking because a lot of guys purge. Right. So they had not a win on their part. but they had little tin buckets for our puke buckets. So everything's super intense. So all I hear is ding, ding, ding, ding. You know, guys, like, it's like the most intense thing you've ever been a part of.

So you've got four other guys working through stuff already in the medicine. You can obviously hear them talking about what they're going through. Right. So this is everything. It's super intense. So then I get fully into it, right? And I just remember, you know, seeing, you know, hearing these things, seeing the lights. Right.

So I felt like I was up in space like with all these lights coming at me, like, stars and and all of a sudden there's like these movies and I'm watching this movie so it was this continual movie flying through space of my life like different things right and I didn't have I didn't have childhood trauma I have a great family have great parents did I did I get a whoopin every now and then because I deserved it you know what I mean so I'm not working through child abuse or sexual abuse right like some of these veterans are right but it was just more of story of my life, whether it was football, whether it was Iowa, whether it was a prose, whether it was different things. I'm watching this movie float through the sky, which

sounds crazy unless you've done it, but it was this continual show, right? Going through the side, I remember watching it, like, what, why is it showing me this? And then I'd grab stuff. I'm like, oh, that was sweet. You know, Iowa, when we beat Michigan at Michigan, I'll take that, kept up my heart. May or may not have been in there. but things like that stuff that I'd grab and I'd throw it to my throw it to my heart

and I want to keep that that makes me feel good right and then I'd grab stuff out of the movie and I'd sling it out in the universe and I just remember that that reel just floating off into space so I'm watching all this stuff and it's right

and you're like is this for real right so you're in and out of it go through that for which seemed like hours then there's a point I don't remember anything and I'm like I must have fall asleep, whatever it was.

I wake up the next morning. So this is 12 hours later, right? You're in this trip for 10 to 12 hours. Holy shit. So wake up and like, what time is it, right? Well, instantly I thought nothing had because in that moment, I couldn't remember anything. And I'm like, I fucked this up to. Like, first thing I said, I'm like, I screwed this up to.

Like, I'm a failure again. And then I go to get up. Can't even do drugs, right? Right. And that was the instant feeling because I didn't recall all of these things, like instantly. And I go to get up and I'm not and I start throwing up. I can't get up like my legs don't work. Like I'm like, oh, I messed myself up.

Like again, failure. Right. Like trying to get up to go to the bathroom because I'd lay there for 12 hours, couldn't function my legs. They put me in a wheelchair, rolled me to the bathroom and go to the bathroom. So I'm living through this that morning. Finally things start coming around, but I'm definitely sick all day.

Throwing up all day. Could not function. But things started coming back. I'm like, the real part came back to me. I feel a little bit better now and I'm remembering like, holy crap. So I'm writing in my journal as they tell us to. Remembering all these things I saw. I threw this away.

I kept this. What was that? So you're trying to process these things you remember that happened. So that second day is a gray day. Right. They're getting IVs. You're super dehydrated. Why is it called a great?

What's a gray day? Gray is like a down day. It's a you're going to just feel gray, right? You're going to feel sick. Like it is, it is physically, the medicine is physically demanding on you. Physically and mentally, but it's physically demeaning. You have high heart rate all night, you know, for 12 hours of your heart beating super fast. Right.

You're dealing with. So it's, you're going to feel like crap, right? That's it. So that's why they call it the gray day. Got you. So do nothing that day. Try and get some food in. I just feel deathly sick.

Finally able to get up and somewhat walk that night. Go down and have a little soup. There's a picture of all of us. And I just look like death warmed over, right? And go to bed, get up the next morning. And then that day. So now we do the second medicine, which is 5MEO DMT. So they like pairing it with ibogaine and five MEO because they say the Ibegain like defrags your brain does all this healing and the five MEO is more of a spiritual

A spiritual trip you take to deal stuff loss of ego do you experience death right more things I'm like so I get through this Ibegain and now it's the next morning and you smoke five emil dint you smoke right it's toad poison It comes derived from a toad a poisonous toad yeah yeah D and called D&T like blasting off right that's like a rocket ship sending it space yes uh and so now i'm scared again i'm like yeah i gotta go on another fucking trip the death drug right like they yes they say like the last that seven seconds of your life or whatever that you recall everything like that's dm t that's a chemical thing that comes off on your body yeah so they had talked to us about this and so i'm scared again right i'm like i feel definitely sick from the i begin still feel terrible and i'm just like what am i doing right and they're telling us okay we're

gonna like the pipe you know it's a crap pipe looking thing and i'm like what what am i doing Right. But I just feel so terrible leading into it. I'm like, this is part of it, right? Just trust the process. And so go in, we go in one at a time and they do. They light it. And I mean, like you say, rocket ship, it sends you.

Right. It took a drag, went back, wasn't all there, asked for more, got up, took the second drag. And it was like you said, they call it the, you know, the death drug. I mean, I experienced death. Like I went to, I went fully out. I came out of my body. I was not in that room where I began. I felt, I could tell I was in the room for the most part, right?

I could feel the floor. This was an out of body experience. I went to the white light, right? And they had talked about this and I never believed it, but I'm like, oh, I'm dying. This is it. Like, to me, it was what death was. What are your emotions while you going towards this white light? Are you actually, like, is the feeling of death in this moment, like high anxiety fear?

Or is it more of like a freeing feeling? It was freeing. It was the most beautiful thing ever, right? Really? I remember floating. Like to up to what, you know, I was born and raised Catholic. I, you know, I have a vision of what my God is and what death is. But it was that exact thing.

Going to the white light, this is it. And I was so freeing. And so I get to get to the white light. And, you know, my God is there. And I'm talking to God. And all of a sudden I lose it. And I'm like, I'm a failure. I'm a piece of shit.

I'm a terrible father. I'm a terrible husband. Send me to hell. And I'm screaming at him. Right. So I'm like, I don't deserve. to be in heaven. And then he's like, and you talk to her. And then my wife appeared from behind him. And I'm screaming at her, telling her the same things. And all of a sudden, it was just calm

and this weight was lifted off me. And I figured out was my, like my ego, because they talk about ego loss. Like literally this something left my body. And I was like, oh, I do deserve, like instantly, I deserve to be here. I'm a good father. I'm a good husband. I had a good career. All these things, this negative self-taught was gone. And then it was this overwhelming. me peaceful feeling. I'm like, oh, I wish I would have known this, but now I'm dead, but I was super peaceful. Well, then I came back into, right, I feel myself back on the floor and I'm coming out of it and I'm like, oh wow, right? Am I live? I remember asking, like, am I dead? And they're like, no, you're not dead, buddy. But it was this overwhelming feeling

of freedom, clarity and came out of it and it was the most enlightening thing you've ever seen. Like it's, unless you've experienced it and this is not just me, right? There's, Talk to people who've gone through it is the most enlightening thing you've ever seen. And so came out of it, go back in the room. And I just felt like I was instantly back, right? That sick feeling I had 20 minutes earlier. Now I'm just like bright eyed. There's no ringing.

I don't feel like, I don't feel sick. I don't feel any of those negative effects. And I literally felt like like I could go run a marathon. I remember walking back in the room, right? And all the other guys are looking at me because I went last. And I'm like, I'm back, bitches. That's exactly what I said. I'm like, I'm back, right?

So it was the hearing things. And like after coming out of it, they sit you in the grass to like come back. And I remember touching the grass, right, and feeling the energy from the earth. And I'm like, what is all this? Right. I could hear everything. I could hear the birds. I could hear the ocean that was two miles away.

I felt like I was in the movie big where the grass was like super tall around me. Like I was a midget and I could hear all the grass rustling and all these sensations and things. in things that I could hear and feel. I was like, oh, and I didn't know it at the point, but I'm just like, holy cow, this is amazing. Go back in the room, talk to the guys, and everybody's just like, right? And you're enlightened. So something worked, right?

Right. So get through that, but I definitely was like, oh, something's different. We went to the beach. We went for a walk as a group. I remember watching the waves, one wave at a time. I'm like, man, I am, something's going on. Like, I can see every single wave turning in the water, like the droplets coming off it. And I'm like, am I still high?

Like, no, this is like, you're in the moment. You're, you know, so somewhere you're like, yeah, whatever, hippie. Right. But I was like, whatever is this is great. I remember turning to Marcus and like saying to him like, hey, I'm supposed to be worrying about something. And I'm worried and I'm supposed to be worrying about something. But I'm not worrying, right, just babbling. Yeah.

Because it was clear. Everything was clear. There was nothing. Nothing in my head. It was complete clarity. And then so next day we drive back to San Diego. My wife came and met me down there. there with some of the other wives and walked into the restaurant we met him at that we originally

left from. And she says, you know, when she walked in, she's like, I knew something was different. She's like, I could see your eyes. Your eyes were wide open. They were bright white. Because she had said it that in the past, she's like, your eyes were just dead. Like, you just see you had no life in your eyes. You were always tired. And she's like, I knew instantly something was different. And she's like, I could just see it the way you guys were all giggling and laughing and like these grown badass men like hugging each other and crying and just she's like you guys were so happy. And so fast forward.

We stayed in San Diego for a couple days to reintegrate because they talk about that. You're going to have this life changing experience and you've got to reintegrate. Like may not be the best thing to go back home to kids, right? Initially. So we spent a couple days in San Diego and we just started learning. She noticed it more. I notice it now or I recall it now, but noticing things that happened. that were different.

So I had a therapy session the second day I was back. Get on my computer, won't connect to the internet. Now, if that had happened pre-treatment, that computer probably wouldn't have made it through it. Probably would have been broken against a wall, right? Because you're a loser, you're a piece of shit. If you're late to a meeting, you guys, I'm sure have PTSD like that,

about I do being late. Showing up late to anything. Anything. And so I just remember trying to get onto it. And I'm like, okay, it must be something, right? And my wife's running around like a, maniac and I'm like I remember thinking like what is going on she came and grabbed the computer took off out the door I just remember sitting there I'm thinking like man what's go what's going on

with her yeah she comes back I ended up getting on my phone I was three minutes late and it was no big deal do my therapy session with the lady and I got off and I said hey what's going on right she said what do you mean I'm like you run around like a crazy person right yeah and she's like and I remember her just looking at me like what are you talking about like and she later said like that would have happened in the past. Like, do you know what would have happened? Do you know what your reaction would have been? Do you know what you would have done to that computer or what you would have said to me?

And so things like that start happening. We fly back home, come in the house. You know, my wife had worn the kids. Hey, Dad, might be different. Well, six hours later, I'm on the floor, whipping them around in their sweatshirts, you know, slinging them around like mops, creating chaos like you wouldn't, you know, screaming and yelling and I'm down there, tickling them. And I remember looking at her and she's, I remember the look on her face.

She was just like mouth wide open. Like what in the hell is going on? Didn't recall it in the moment. I remember her reaction, but I didn't really put anything. I'm like, whatever, right? Playing with the kids. And so time goes on, days, weeks, months. And my reactions are different.

And for me personally, there's no, there's no brain fog. I'm super clear. No ringing in my ears. There's zero suicide stuff. There's zero depression. There's zero anxiety. I'm like going to pick the kids up at school with my wife and talking to the other moms and the dads.

She was like, you haven't, you've never done this. Yeah. Right. I was a guy that sat in the car and waited for the kid to come get in. I didn't want to interact with anybody. And so I'm just a different human being. And so as time goes on, we learn more and more things. Now, are you getting back into the routines of like the cold tub and hyperbaric?

Yeah. So I had a lot of that stuff, but I added a lot of stuff because they teach you that through this too is like, hey, you know, meditation. You should learn to meditate. Right. That's a big part of being in the moment and helping this treatment stick. and so I'm trying to learn how to meditate, right? I'm doing, and I got right back into my routine up early, but I loved it.

It wasn't for survival. It was, you know, it's because I wanted to do. It made me feel good. Cold tub was great. I would go for a walk and be like, stoked to be alive, right? Before I went, I was training for a 5K because my buddy and I said we were going to do it. He's the one that ended up taking his life. But I'm like, oh, I'm going to follow through on this.

So I'm out running and remember crossing the street and looking at the trees. I mean, the trees are so beautiful and green and everything was vital. vibrant and oh that semi stop for me right i'm not across the street where in the past i'm like you know that same instance happened before i went and i would stop there and be like okay it'll look like an accident just step out in the road because the semi's not going to stop that's crazy so it's a complete same instances are happening and it's a different reaction i'm like oh that's weird well this is great uh so just all those things start happening the clarity like pre-treatment i was forgetting my kids names i'd be like what's she doing she's like what's talking about i'm like

her, her, what's her name? She's like, Hayden. You know, so those things are happening. And now I'm like, I'm like, I'm up every morning and I go for a bike riding and I go wake surfing and then I'm like, I'm going to do this. And like, I'm just high on life. So this happens, you know, for three, four months, right? And I remember the first day I got my first anxiety. I'm like, oh, what is that? And I was anxious, right? It wasn't a big deal with something small. It's like, oh, I'm nervous to go to this thing. Right. So over time, things started popping. back in, right? But I had this new thought process of things. And so fast forward, right, because this is not a, this medicine is not a magic pill. It's not, you know, it took multiple

times for me. So now we're in it, you know, things started coming back. Then I started having some ideation again. I got COVID and took the, whatever the pill is for COVID that has, you know, they say on there, it can have a metallic taste. So I remember having my first suicide nightmare. I had COVID, took this medicine. I remember waking up, gripping my neck because I thought I had a gun of my mouth because of the metallic taste from the medicine. So it was my first suicide nightmare again. So it went originally, 2021. Now we're pushing close to 2023. Things have popped back in. I'm not near as bad as I was, but still having some of the old stuff. You're starting to see some his old programming come back up. Yep. How long did you have the residual from the trip?

Like toward you felt clarity? You felt like your work. Four months of absolutely nothing. I'm talking no anxiety, the most high on life. And then at about a year, little things started popping back in, right? Some of the anger stuff started coming back, some of the uncontrollable outburst or, you know, like I said, jump my Harley and go 90 mile an hour into town. Christmas, my, you know, I don't talk about this a lot, but Christmas before 2023, my parents were out and I remember taking my son for a haircut and I was in the truck and I'm like, mom and dad, I'm struggling again.

And I said, if I, if I mess up, because at this point, it wasn't like, oh, this is how I'm going to make it go away, but I'm like, I'm going to screw up. I'm going to screw up. And I'm going to kill myself. I'm going to screw up. And I'm very much with it. And I've learned a lot of things. And I told my parents, hey, you guys were great parents.

If I mess up and kill myself, it's not your fault. Right? So I was back in that bad spot again. Yeah. And so. Was it as bad? It wasn't as bad. It wasn't near as bad.

But when you've been to super clarity and in things. come back. It's like the first day. It feels way heavier. And it wasn't before it was all the time. So I could deal with it all the time. I was in that mindset all the time. Now it was a little bit here, a little bit there, but it seems more intense. So I go back for treatment again, 2003. So that's two years for my first one. Very similar experience on I began. I think super sick. I felt like it, you know, defragged did things. I worked through some stuff. A lot of the same visions, new visions. then the real turning point for me was the next day, the 5MEO DMT again. So I smoked the 5MEO and I die.

I saw that I'd killed myself. It wasn't this peaceful death that I saw the first time. I messed up and I killed myself, right? Whether it wasn't necessarily suicide. It was a vision of me on my Harley, right, weaving through cars. And I'm watching that. And I killed myself. And then I saw what it did to my family.

I'm watching down from the sky now. I'm up at that. I'd gone to that. Kill myself, went to the white light. I'm watching down. I see what it did to my family. So I'm watching my kids age. And I'm seeing how it messed them up. I'm seeing what it did to my wife. I had told my wife again, I'm a burden. And I got back to that mindset that you're better off without me. Unfortunately. And so it showed me in this. I saw what it did to them. And I was like, oh, God, this is not. Right. I remember thinking like, oh, I'm going to mess them up. Right. And that sounds. like a crazy person, but I didn't think that before. I thought I'd gotten back to this old Robert, right? Even, you know, maybe not all the time. So this is going to mess them up. And then I saw what it actually did to them. Woke up out of this.

I actually started throwing up. So I reacted to, you know, and I think I woke up kind of towards the end of this trip. And so I thought I died. So they're cleaning my mouth, right? So I'm puking. They're cleaning my mouth out. And I start raging because I thought, I literally think I'm dead.

I'm like, this is hell. Like I, whatever it was, I was in a spot, I thought I was dead. And I grabbed the therapist and I'm raging, screaming at it. I'm like, I effed up my family. I'm like, you know, screaming and just then I'm throwing them on the ground and just complete rage. And I remember my female therapist was there that we work with. And I grabbed here and I'm like, you've got to call my wife, tell her I'm sorry.

So I think I'm dead. I'm back on earth out of this trip, but I'm still half in it, I think. But I literally thought I was dead. And so this happens. I later found out I raged for like 20 minutes and they're calming me down and some things happened. And finally, I calmed down and realized I was back on earth and I wasn't actually dead. But I kept asking, I'm like, did I die? Did you guys resuscitate me?

It was that profound. And so I come out of it and I was just in shock. So before it was blissful. And this time I was like, I mean, I was in shock for hours. Even until we got back, I got back home. And I'm telling my wife about it. And I'm like, I think they're lying to me. I think they had to resuscitate me.

Like I pushed it too far. And so as I process all this, but what I did stick and the rewiring, the medicine, what it did do is that it made me see what would happen if I did screw up and did take my life in one way or another. And that has stuck with me since that day. Like if something pops up now, I know full well on my worst day, I'm better off here. And my family's better off without me or is better with me, even the days I'm, you know, if I have a bad day or I get angry.

And that stuff doesn't happen since then. You know, happens like we happens when you're a dad. Right. You know. The normal type of angry. Exactly. If anybody's watching this and probably thinking, and I'm assuming this, you can tell me if I'm wrong, but like you're not going to take this medicine.

All your issues are always going to be fixed. But you're going to have better tools and better understanding of where your value is in life. Exactly. Yeah. And these, like this instance for me is like, oh, I'm, I'm, you know, I didn't believe it before and I truly believe it. Even, you know, no matter what happens, right? Even worse case.

I never want to happen. I get dementia. I'm better off here. My family needs me, right? And so that's what this experience showed me. And so since then, it's been, you know, I have the tools now and it rewired some things. They're showing that, you know, I began specifically, actually scientifically rewires your brain, right? It's growing new white brain matter.

So, Dr. Nolan Williams, you know, God rest his soul, he has passed since this study, but he did a study with 30 vets, special ops vets, and improving. it, right? That's a big part of this movement with this medicine. It's actually proving not only the spiritual part, but it is creating new neural pathways. It is actually fixing brain damage or working around it, right? Some of my damage is still there, but I'm creating new neural pathways around it. And so knowing all this on top of the spiritual stuff since then, I have the tools and I know, I knew after these treatments that my something was working on my brain. I mean, for days afterwards, I would, in months or weeks, I could just feel like a buzzing in my head.

I'm like something something's working up there right right and then I notice all the again all the emotional changes and so since 2003 right another stuff has really come back right like yes do I get anxious yes do I it is not the magic pill but I have the tools right I know now to right if something pops in it's like nope I see that vision of what I did to my family right and I I don't have these over the top reactions like I did before the brain fog and that stuff is gone do I still have days I get a little brain fog yes right you know laid it let you know I'm like sure like you guys you're like late in the day and it's like oh wow that something's not working right you know but for the most part before it was 24-7 now I'm super clear right to get talking fast

because I'm like I'm just crisp and everything's working good and so I know not only the scientific part of it but the spiritual part of it I know I'm a different human being and my wife will still bring stuff up you know something will happen I'll get frustrated be like oh I overreacted on that right I'm very aware right oh I shouldn't react it like she's like your son just walked out in the street and almost got hit by a car when we were, you know, instance, going to our, get on our boat. And I grabbed him and, and I lit into him like, you got to walk, right? And then I felt bad. I'm like, oh, the old Robert's back. And she's like, that's what a dad should do. Right. That is a normal reaction. Protected your child. Yeah. And so she's like, no, you're,

she brings it up to me all the time. She's like, you know, I can, she can trust me to take the kids to soccer practice, basketball practice, and not worry about me, one, forgetting where I'm at, or, two, having a reaction around people. So it's daily stuff happens. And, you know, the fact that I flew here by myself, she's like, just a little step like that, five years ago, you couldn't do that. I would have had to be with you because you would either lost it in the airport, you know, wouldn't have forgot where you were, whatever these things were. So it's that my life is different now because of the tools I have and I know that some of the work it's done, right? I went through some of the, you know, you guys will find it funny,

but I went through some of the brain concussion stuff pre-medicine and post-medicine. Right. So I, pre-medicine, I'm doing, you know, jumping through the hoops, right? Hit your baseline test. The 10 years of stuff they make you jump through to try and get something out of it. And I finally was like, I don't care. I don't care about this. You know, so I had had a couple of doctors appointments pre-medic.

medicine and a couple post medicine. So I come back post medicine and it is. I'm like, you know, pre-medicine, I'm talking about, you know, suicide and talking about these things. And post-medicine, my scores are better. My everything's better. And they're like, oh, you don't qualify. I'm like, of course I don't. Right. But at that point, I didn't care because I mean, that showed me because some of my scores and some of the things that happened pre and post, I'm like, I'm definitely a different person. Right. My scores are better. Like I cleared, my recall. And it's kind of funny. But I'm also like, of course, of course I went and did something else. Yeah. And it, you know, a lot of guys do it, you know, want the money or want the, because they deserve it. But I always just like, I want to

be healthy. So I kind of laughed it off. And it's like, oh, this is showing me now on top of everything else that that I am. Things are fixed or drastically better. Hey, it's us, the Jonas brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special.

So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this.

We were talking about a thing. a bit for the podcast where people could call in and say, Hey Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior. And that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self-discovery, and returning to yourself. We explore higher consciousness, emotional well-being, and the practices that help you find

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Yeah. Have you gotten a brain scan? since the first one you got, where it was like it looked like somebody took a baseball bat to it? I did. The part where, so my initial brain scan was a spec scan. It's called a spec scan, right?

Which measures, it gives you a 3D image. It measures the surface of your brain, pretty much things that are living or not living. So it measures electrical current in your brain. It measures blood flow. What they are finding out. So I got the same scan afterwards thinking,

oh, I'll see it drastically better. But what I learned is that's not the, correct scan to do that. Now, does that measure damage? Absolutely. But they're learning, and this is where this medicine is new. These neurologists are learning that. That scan, for whatever reason, there's been a few people like me. It doesn't show a drastically better brain. Now, why is that? Well, depression, all these things is inflammation. So I had huge inflammation on my brain. So that's why certain parts were lit up. And then it shows the dead parts. Ibegain takes inflammation away. So now some of this actually some of it looks worse or the same because I have less inflammation.

It's not actually creating the surface of a new, those areas that were damaged. It's the internal stuff. So a long-winded way of answering that is an fMRI actually looks deep into the brain. That's what Dr. Nolan Williams used at Stanford. And they can see the new white brain matter. We can see the new neural pathways. So I messed up, which I can accept now. Right?

You're thinking, damn, I wish you ought to have this scheme. or MRI before so you can actually see whether it's rewiring or exactly the actual where they can sign and they did it in the study from Stanford you can look at the study and it shows the brain new areas internally where mine was more the surface of how was everything currently working it's not the in-depth of new things starting so long story short it was kind of a bummer but it was also that's why I didn't want to get another one because I'm like I know I feel better and at the end of the day it was the wrong scan to do it was right to figure out the damage But the neurologist, like, hey, we don't understand it either, right? For whatever reason, the psychedelics part of it because of the inflammation, this is not the right scan. This is more of a surface level where the fMRI goes deep into it, which I am going to get at some point, but it would have been nice to have a baseline. But you look at the study they did and they have pre and post fMRI and it's black and white

on there, that there is new stuff growing. And that's the standard for what you need. From the psychedelics? Mm-hmm. Isn't there, isn't there something? that put like, what was it, like $50 million toward a study? Yeah, so through this process, I became, you know, the military community became my old football family, right?

Yeah. So, you know, Marcus is a very close friend. We talk almost daily, who's just a guy that we check in. It's, you know, telling stories, he'll call, hey, this happened. And I used to react like this. Guess what I did? I laughed, right? Like just stuff to, we talk about how we used to be.

Now we're different. Our wives talk. But through the community I met. Marcus Namer-Cupon with vet solutions, they started really, they treated, they've treated a couple thousand guys now, right? And it's, and I'm not talking, it works for a couple. I mean, you could bring, of the 2000 they've tested, you bring almost all 2000 in here, and you're going to hear the same story. Really? Right. One level or another. Sometimes one treatment, sometimes two, took two for me. But you're going to hear the same story. It is the results are astounding.

And so I got introduced to some people, you know, with this study through Stanford, and then, they started going, a group put together to go to Texas. They were trying to get money from Texas to study it. So former governor of Texas, Rick Perry, he asked me to be involved. He's heading all this or was. So we were in Texas working with politicians, legislators, and they signed a bill. And again, I'm a small Lego in this thing, but gave my story. They signed a bill that put $50 million towards the study of Ibigan for PTSD,

TBI, addiction. It's huge on addiction. I haven't drank since my first treatment in 2021, haven't had a drop of alcohol, have zero interest in having any alcohol. It is, so it's huge for addiction. So they originally started using Ibegain with heroin addicts. They still do. Like 80-some percent of heroin addicts will go through this treatment and not touch heroin again.

So it's huge, huge for addiction. You know, Marcus, these guys were on numerous, right? They call it the military 60-pack, right? Of antidepressants, all these things. the majority of them are not on any of their pills. A ton of these guys don't drink. Marcus has never drank again, right? There's tons of stories like mine.

So Texas put the money, signed that bill here a few months ago. So they're going to start studying it. They're going to do trials on veterans, on athletes, to try and get this pass because it is currently a Schedule 1 drug, right? So there's that loophole to jump through to get it off Schedule 1. So they got that money. And then we started the, which I'm supposed to, part of also is the American Ibigen initiative.

So other states now are trying to pull fronts from their state to study it. So there's scientific proof and they want to continue it to show, hey, this is, this is just not a spiritual drug. This is not what everyone thinks it is. This is a medicine that will drastically help people's mental health and help fix parts of their TBI like it did me and has done other guys. So there's lots of things going on within this realm of this medicine. that there's not a stigma of the, you know, psilocybin or ayahuasca.

There's, because it's so unknown. But that's why we're having, you know, having success and things like that. And that's what brought me to create my foundation, which is athletes for care. And so I saw all these veterans and I saw what it was doing for them. I saw what it did for me. And going through this couple of year process, you know, I was like, I want to help guys. Because I finally opened up after healing, called the. couple of my friends that I disappeared for like 10 years right guys I played with and like hey sorry

you know I just was going through some stuff here's what happened and like oh so then I had guys reaching out hey I'm going through this or I the anger part resonated with me like what's that like or the suicide stuff and so I'm like man I could help people right right because I'm not the I thought I was the only guy right I'm the only NFL football player that got done classic man yep I'm I'm the only guy out there going through this, right? And I don't want, no one else wants to hear about it. Right. And so I started having these stories and I'm like, I want to help, right?

Because I'm like, and my wife's like, you know, saved our, saved your life, saved our marriage. It saved, you know, saved you. Like you're back as a human being. And so started athletes for care. And what we want to do is, you know, be a voice for athletes. I want, you know, we're doing this storytelling because then I went on Marcus's podcast, right? The outreach we got from that. We get guys ex-athletes in all sports calling like, hey, this is me, right?

The same thing. You talking, I think it's me, you know, whether it's all the stuff, some of the stuff. So educating athletes that, hey, there are other options. I'm not saying Ibegain is the magic pill. Everyone should go do it. But when other things don't work, it's an option. It's another modality of something that can help. It helped me.

I can show you 2,000 other guys that it helped drastically. And so we want to be a resource. and I want to be a resource for these guys and I've had more and more people reach out and I'm sure like you guys I know these guys right there's guys we played with that you see around town or you see at an event

and you're like that dude's got a screw loose yeah right and it's not I don't mean to make it funny but they're either coping with alcohol or drugs and I've been around these guys and I'm like oh man they need this medicine because there's guys you play with and you look at him and you'll have like a concerning conversation with like a teammate being like

that's a guy you have to worry about after football. Like a lot of guys you have to worry about, but some guys just, even when they're playing, you're like, I can see where something could happen there. For sure. Yeah.

And it's not always, right? I was pre this healing. You see, and it's unfortunate, like these guys that make the news because they do something drastic. Right? Whether it's suicide or hurting, right?

You know, hurting their neighbor or there's been instances of that where you're like, this dude's lost his rocker. Right. Right. Now you look at it and I'm like, check his brain right and a lot of it now they are checking their brain so it's tb i related issues right

the rage anger all that stuff and so being able to tell the story and be a resource for these people that are going through what i did yeah it's it's not fun right sit here and tell you the stories about my kids and those things right but it's healing for me and the amount of people that it's like dude you saved my life by talking about it because you were you know strong enough to like put your shit out there right um like thank you And so that's why I continue to do this with athletes for care because there are lots of guys that are suffering and there's, you know, there's ways of healing. And that's why I want to be help push this medicine forward and just be a resource for guys that, hey, maybe maybe Ibe gain isn't for you, but hey, want you to try this, right? Once you try the cold water therapy, once you try these breathing exercises, right, I'm, I've turned into a super focused hippie, right?

Because I, you know, like you, we've talking about it, the longevity stuff, right? I get up and I do breathing exercises in the morning. And there's so many things you can do, but that medicine for me got me years ahead. And I know fix some stuff. But now I'm addicted, right? I'm addicted to doing those things. And I do. I get up at 4 in the morning.

I go get my cold tub. I do my meditation. I do my breathing. I do my workout. I do my hyperbaric chamber. I know these tools. If I walk into a gym and I get activated because it's loud. I'm still.

I don't like chaos. That's who I am. I'm very straightforward. As a dad, as a coach. as a person, but I walk in and I get activated because, you know, everyone's not us. I don't know how you guys are with your kids. I'm guessing we're very similar, right? This is not a free-for-all, right?

Kids act a certain way, right? We walk into a gym and people are bouncing off the walls and no judgment on their parenting, but it activates me, right? But now it's not this over-the-top activation that I have to leave the gym. It's like, I'm okay. They're not my kids. It's not my problem. My kids are doing what they're supposed to.

I can walk in, I can sit down, I can not be up there shaking, because of the reaction. It's like, yeah, I'm sitting here to watch my daughter and enjoy what she's doing or whatever one of my kids I'm watching. Or if we're coaching now, I'm coaching, you know, with my life, we're coaching basketball. We're about to start the high school basketball season, coaching girls. And it's the greatest thing in the world. I couldn't have done that five years ago.

When you talk about being your vulnerable state and saving as many people, there's like, you hear a lot of stories about people who have gone through processes, either similar to yours or whatever and how they've, you know, changed so many people's lives. Have your, has your wife ever told her side of the story? And been vulnerable in those senses? Because you talk about, you know, as you're telling me this story, I'm thinking like, it's amazing the amount of growth you've had and how you're very humble sitting on this bus talking about these hard times that I've had. And this is the process that it took and this is where I'm at now. And I just think about your wife. And as you come out of this first

medicine and she's seeing a different version of you, there's probably a bunch of stones that haven't been on turn for her of like different things that maybe you did that she hasn't healed from. There's a process for her to heal through. Has she ever been able to kind of tell her side of the story in these things? It's funny you ask. We just did it. We went to, went to Iowa last week. I did some mental health work with the athletic department with current student athletes, you know, not regarding psychedelics, just more mental health in general. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Met with the psychiatric department. We're collaborating with them at the University of Iowa. But we sat down and she had a couple hour interview. And it's the first time.

she's told her story. She's given tidbits on different things that she's people she spoke to with different articles that they've done on me. But we have that in the pipeline to come out because I took a good friend of mine from Iowa. He played in the league. He was struggling. And I talked to him about this two years ago. And about a year and a half ago, he reached out. He's like, I need help. I need to go do this. So I went down with him to Mexico just to hold space. And I remember this is when it hit me, like you said, because I was down there and I, called my wife and said, hey, can you call such and such as wife and kind of tell her what's going to be like when they get back? Because remember how much we struggled, right? Because she was.

She was for a long time. She was like, oh, it's great. You're fixed. That's awesome. Right. Like, I've been living through all this stuff and it's awesome. There's a level of resentment she has. For sure. She did multiple years of going through all these things. Yeah. So she, you know, that's when it hit me. I was like, we need to, if she wants to and she did, she's willing to tell it because it's the wives and the kids that go through it. And so she called my buddy's wife. And it was great because she wasn't really into him going down there. She's like, what is Robert doing? Like they're going to he's taking him to Mexico to do drugs. And I was just trust us. Right. Well, then he gets home and I waited. I didn't want to call and ask. How's you doing? Week later, get a call from her or text. It's like,

I'm sorry. I didn't believe in this when you left. He is a different person. Thank you so much. No shit. And the stuff you told me. And they were like, okay, well, now here's this going to happen. Right. you're going to get some resentment coming up, just like my wife did. And she did. She called my wife and was like, yep, it's there. He's fixed. It's all great, you know, tell me to relax. Yeah, right?

Because I'm the one reacting now. So it's a big part of this whole story is the entire part of it. And that's what Marcus and Amber Capone did for me at vets. They are my best friends now, one of my best friends, because they took that call for me, right? And that's why I want to help other guys. And it's just a way of healing, right? because we all have our issues right we're always going to have our issues right but and it's not

not that it's not everyone in the world but you know athletes especially right you come out of being what we were and the identity and all these things and like we're full bore you know so i want to start with that and help guys you know get healing and that's you know this is how i know how to do it yeah i just i sit here and think it's like how do you reach another robert gallery out there that's more so in the phase of the years until you decided like, hey, I need help, the moment on the driveway where you look up at your wife and you say, I need help. Like the guy that isn't wanting to hear it, I feel like that's always the, that's always got to be the challenge, right? It is. And I think that's, I think talking about it, I've learned. I've had numerous guys

that have like, hey, seeing you talk about it, they reach out. Like, I'm having the same thing. Seeing you talk about it made me reach out. Am I ready to go to Mexico? No. Some of them are. We've helped guys get down there. But I think it's just the vulnerability, so it's not just me, right? It's you hear, you know, that's just this day and age too is like not only athletes, but you hear Marcus Littrell talk about it. You hear DJ Shipley, these guys were the baddest dudes on the face of the earth and what they did, right? And you hear them talk about it, right?

And that's what did it for me, like to sit in a room and cry with a bunch of Navy seals and hug and tell them you love them, right? This stuff that you're like 10 years ago, none of us would have said that. Yeah, right. You know what I mean? So to be vulnerable and talk about this. You know, we've been getting a lot of outreach and guys like, hey, something's going on. You know, I don't know if I'm ready, but this, you know, stay, keep me in the loop on what you're doing.

Because just that talking about it makes people think it's okay to like, oh, shit, that's me. And we've had guys, I've had a couple guys that reached out, had heard my story on a different podcast or a news article, went and did the medicine, went on their own. Like, wanted healing, went and did it and then reached out again or reached out then. post-treatment is like, dude, you saved my life. And that's pretty cool. And with Marcus Littrell at the first spot. Like, I don't know if you like your stuff, but you saved my life. Yeah.

Yeah. It was. And it's like, you know, the days that I'm, you know, working on the business side of having a foundation, right? Like trying to raise money and do all these things that you got to do to keep running. And then you get an email like that. And you're like, holy cow, like, there is a reason. And it's pretty cool.

And, you know, sit and talk to guys. There's been numerous ex-players that I've been events with. And what are you up to now? And it just wasn't me preaching like, you should go do medicine. It's just more, this is what happened. I went dark, did this, found healing and this. And they're like, oh, right? I've had numerous guys like the rage thing.

He's like, and it's like they relive what I was doing. And so I hope they, you know, find something that helps them. But there's lots of guys like that. It's not everybody. I'm not, you know. Like you guys, I'd go do the whole thing all over again. I'd go back to Iowa and do the same stuff and hit the same way and be the guy that was trying to kill people with my head.

Yeah. Right, because that's what I was. I was not a finesse guy, right? I was a smash a face mask through your face mask type of guy. Be ready to die on the field. Yeah. And so. Yeah, there's those moments on Saturdays in the fall where you're just like, man,

if I died out here, this is an honorable death. Yeah. I'm willing to do it. Yeah. It's a sick part about it. And I'm still, right? That's also the thing with the medicine. It's not, I'm not a hippie now.

Like, yes, do I do. Focus hippie. I am, right? Because you see me, like, like in the airport, right? Things are getting activated me, right? It's like chaos. I don't like chaos. There's a bunch of noises because I can hear now.

I can hear and I'm thinking clearly. I'm like, oh, there's a lot going on in here. So I'm sitting in the corner, right, close my eyes. And I'm sure people are like, who is this massive tattooed dude in the corner? He's out there meditating. And it's awesome. It's a great feeling to be, you know, healed and be that much far ahead of where I was and to be able to offer it to other people and guide them through maybe before they get to where I get.

That's my whole goal with. athletes for care is to be there before they get to where I got. Telling my wife, like, here's all this stuff, right? Let's get you the rage stuff now that you're recognizing, right? That's what leads to this other stuff. That's part of TBI. That's the reality of it, right? Not blaming the league, not blaming anyone.

Like I said, I'd do it all over again. But like, like, let's offer healing. And that's a big part of what we're doing and why I'm on here. What's your relationship like with football now? You know, when I got done... And how has it changed since it's probably the bitter taste you had in your mouth when you left? Yeah, I can sit and enjoy and watch a game with my son because he loves it. Am I going to choose to on a Saturday or Sunday in December when it's dumping snow out,

stay and watch the NFL games on Sunday ticket rather than being on the mountain snowboard? And absolutely not, right? I was never that way. Like, I'm not a guy that sit and watches it every weekend. But I can turn it on now. my son can turn it on. Like, Dad, let's watch the football game.

Like, sure, buddy. Yeah. Where pre all this, I would lose it. Like, turn that stuff off. It was just all this hatred towards it. Yeah, football's for the devil type of stuff. Yeah, it was, I hated it. I didn't want to watch it because it brought back all the negative stuff.

You're a failure. You should still be playing. I'm 45 years old. I shouldn't be playing still, right? But it was all these things that go through your head as an ex-athlete to where now it's fun with my son to watch it. And it's like, oh, dad, George Kittles on the, you know, It's like, you know, I know George and his family and to hear my son be so excited about,

oh, you know, I was watching receiver and, you know, am I going to sit and watch it? I will because he wants to. Dude, isn't it, you bringing up George Kittle, isn't it so crazy that you went to Iowa and a young, eight-year-old George Kittle waited in line for an hour for you to take a photo with you as a kid? And then now, because of how long you waited and signed those photos and autographs and all those things, he's now a guy that does that because he saw you do that. And now your kids watching George Kittle being like, holy shit George Kittle.

Yeah. Isn't that just nuts? It's amazing. And to hear that, I heard that, you know, George and his dad shared that story with me. And I had no idea, right? And show me the picture. And it's, yeah, it's a big deal because we get in the thing. It was like, you know, I remember doing that.

I remember staying there. Because I'm like, I can't let these kids down. I was that kid. I was that kid when my brother was playing waiting for Tim Dwight to get an autograph. Yeah. And so to have that relationship with them, you know. And George has actually, George has been great. Like we're doing a, a fun.

fundraiser with him through AllTrue. It's a rally fundraiser. They're actually giving away a Himalaya EV defender, a vehicle. Right. So if you go to AllTrue.com and check that out. George is awesome. Shout out Carl Rudolph. Exactly.

Carl Rudolph started it. And George does a lot of things for them. We have a lot of things intertwine. Like he's big in the military community, you know, what he's done with his career, you know, is great. But all the other stuff he does. So it's great to partner with them. You know, they're going to help raise funds through that all true fundraiser for our organization, for athletes for care. And just good human beings, right?

They're, you know, that's the Midwest, the Midwest in them. And, you know, they're our guys. So what else? What else would you expect? Yeah. How hard was it to eventually love your career and love what you accomplished and love what you did? Because I can imagine, I can only imagine how angry you probably would be at times. being a number two overall pick and like I just I can just tell listening to you you loved

the game of football you loved fucking grinding you loved putting on a hundred pounds you love imposing your will against the opponent and working out and grinding and getting better and for your career you know we're all psychos we all want to be the greatest for it not to work out in in a way of the expectation of the world and everything else I'm sure that you were very bitter for a while. Because you talked about your ego death. You talked about you speaking on it. And it was very fleeting, but loving your career when you said you were coming out of it from the spiritual side of everything. I'm sure that was very hard. Yeah. No, it is. Right. We're competitors. That stuff doesn't go away. But this, you know, this whole journey led me to,

there's a lot of other, and you guys know it, right? Like, there's a lot of other factors that go into what happens. Right. So I look back at my career at Iowa and why was I so successful there? Because the head coach that started in 1999 is still there in 2006. Right? So it was the same coach, same system. Right. And all these other things. But it's about, right, you look back and yeah, we, you played 10 years.

You think you should have played 12. You played 12. Right. It doesn't matter. Right. At the end of the day, that's who we are as competitors. Could have played 20 years. And I'm sure I'd be sitting here and playing.

I should have played 22. Right. Like this whole expectation of what you should do. Yeah. So it's, yeah, it's also looking at things in a healthy way. There's a lot of things that are in life or out of your factors that affect what happens, right? And you have a story in your head of how you want things to happen. But it's, yes, it's a sit here.

And like, I'm proud of what I did, right? I didn't dwindle it away because I was out, you know, not putting everything into it. Yeah. And so, yes, it's a much better relationship now. And that's, you know, I wouldn't be here, you know, that's part of the spiritual part of it. I wouldn't be here talking about this if all that stuff didn't happen. Yeah. Right. So it's part of the process it was supposed to be for me.

Did I still want to go to the playoffs every year or a year? Never knew. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, yeah, that stuff still bothers me, right? He gets the playoff time and I'm like, I mean, it doesn't debilitate me, but I'm like, oh, that's a, that'd be. See the guy. Would have been next to winning January. Yeah. See the winning team having fun. He's just like, man. Yeah. Yeah. And as you guys know when you're winning, it's, it's fun, right?

And it's easy, right? And then you're like, po. I got bullrust there, but then. matter because we're rolling and he got it out and like you know that happens in a you know you're losing and you're you know down 20 and you're we're past block and every single one like hold on yeah yeah that's the worst when you open up the second half and you're like two minute boys yeah like hold on your ass yeah like nothing for the rest of the game we're praying to get a couple slides you away hey that's the worst feeling in the world when it comes a career dude like we've talked about i i i still miss playing football but i am extremely proud of like if you if you're

able to be proud of what you were able to accomplish and giving 100% effort at the end of the day like the result of you know everyone has this like idea in your head of like how you're going to write the end of your story and everyone has it the same way like tom brady did it or these other you know 1% of 1% of 1% of 1% guys did and it's like if you gave everything you had to it to be upset about because you you put everything you had into the game absolutely it's the most important had to have been very freeing too to kind of have that ego death let it go love and appreciate it because we you you'd put everything you had to be all know like I know that you being 200 and 20 30 pounds with high jump records or four by one you would have never imagined somebody coming to you and say hey you're going to gain 100 pounds you're going to be an outland trophy winner you're going to be an all-American you're going to be the number two overall pick in the NFL and be an offensive lineman and play for eight nine years in the NFL you'd be like yeah you're fucking crazy being a farm boy from small town Iowa so it is it's like you you've done a lot of badass shit that absolutely everybody would trade places for and it's really cool that you've learned you've had this process of learning and very much lows and now you're

getting new experience highs again and love yourself and be a family man and do all these things and start a foundation that you've started and changing people's lives so i dude i appreciate you for sharing all this i'm sure it gets still at some point no matter how much you talk about it i'm sure there's still some discomfort at times like having to pull from old memories that you probably feel shame and embarrassment from so dude thank you for sharing all of this sincerely yeah no it's it's like says it's been it's great for me it's right this process helped me enjoy like you said other things in life right my i'm one of eight guys in the ring of honor in kinnick stadium at the university of iowa right your name is up in the stadium right and that like something i am so

proud of and I went post-medicine to where I didn't really I was still right embarrassed or whatever it was right there's all these other factors and I'm like that's one instance where I'm like I remember staying in there that day they unveiled it and like holy shit I'm one of eight dudes in the history of Iowa football that has their name on the stadium like I did some really big time stuff right it doesn't that's not who I am just because my name's there but that to be able to really enjoy that stuff and we all did it right as our careers went on You're next thing, next thing, next thing, next thing.

And now stand back and truly enjoy the process of what you did and what you accomplished from it. It's a very amazing deal. Yeah, that's awesome. I got one more question for you. I was so hung up on your first DMT trip and you're like going to the light and you seek God. And you're like, I saw God the way I see God. How clear was this trip for you? It was like we're all sitting here right now talking?

Absolutely. What does God look like? There's two things I don't get into, politics and religion. No, but for me, right, it was the typical what I learned in in CCD class when I was. Beard, white hair. Beard, long white hair, the white robe. Yeah. Right.

Was he a heavier set guy, medium build, medium build, white guy, right? Yeah. My God's white. Yeah, fair enough. Yeah, it's all good. We're not judging that. But yeah, it was like very crystal clear. Yeah.

And so, yeah, some of those things. And that's part of this, too. We can laugh about it now, but the people that have gone through, we talk about these things you see and you're like they get it or if you've experienced things like that you're like holy cow right like talking about seeing the light and doing these different things the death you're like you're like you know i'm very clear what it's going to be like when i do die like that came out of that too like that peaceful it's like oh this is this is not bad right yeah it's not a scary thing yeah you know some of the stuff that happened in there but it's yeah it's it was crystal clear yeah

don't he's like i saw my god he had a 30 rack sitting next yeah yeah yeah tuxedo t-tie shirt on, mullet. Pull up on a Harley. T-sito T-shirt. That's got to be such a crazy feeling in your head to be like, yo, this is the guy everyone's talking about all time. This is him, you know? I was going to say the t-sito t-shirt just cut and have to.

Yeah, he got his belly out, a little croft up. Me too. Oh, squat racks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, your story's incredible, man. All the things Will said, I would love to double down on that. But, like, thank you for sharing your story with us. It's awesome.

And I hope that anybody who hears this, that's going through something. they reach out because the mental health side is so important. So thank you. Yeah, no, that's what, you know, that's, I want to continue. We have, you know, websites set up, you know, and like, like any foundation, right, like the, you know, people feel inclined to donate. There's a donate page on there because this, we can help send guys for treatment, right? Because unlike what most people think, not all professional athletes have money or save their

money or had careers like we did that we put stuff away, you know, so we're raising money to help with the research and, you know, help send guys that need help that are in financial need. It's not as football guys, right? There's UFC guys. We got hockey guys. We got tons of guys. So that's a big part of this is also, but that's all on our website and just a resource of things you can do and people to reach out to. What's the average cost to take one person down? There's a couple different facilities, but, you know, anywhere from $6,000 to $10 plus. but the place that the majority that I've gone to is just over $6,000, you know, to get there,

the treatment, it's the doctors, it's the pre-and-post therapy, integration, reintegration. So not, you know, not cheap, but I also came out of it and like, dude, I would have paid $60,000, right? It's easy for me to say, but I also think it's such a profound thing that it's like, holy cow, let's figure out how to make this happen. And that's what vets is done. you know, they give grants. You know, we want to do that. If we start raising enough money, we want to give grants to guys that are in need that can't

financially do it and give them part of a grant. And so, you know, the other thing I would love to, you know, give a small plug to is this experience is easy for me to talk about it. And you listen to me and like, okay, but there's a new documentary that actually just came on on Netflix that Marcus and Amber Capone were a part of with their organization. It's called in Waves and War. And it's very, very good. I've seen it multiple times, just got released.

It's on Netflix, and it gives a good idea of this process, more scientific stuff on the medicine, but it's some great storytelling like mine that you'll be like, oh, I heard that from Robert, right? If you go watch it because it's very similar and it's just bringing awareness to guys. That's awesome. We talk about, you know, things that we can laugh about.

And we do have a final question. It's brought to us by Bud Light. It is, it is comical. You know how people would do anything for an ice cold bottle. I've heard that. What is something in your life that Robert Gallery would do anything for? And you see in parentheses, Taylor, it's a coin thing. You can't say family.

Oh, yeah. Can't say family. I think for me it would be being able to consistently live in the moment, to be in the moment. Like, I'm very much more in the moment now than I was. But I've had that feeling of being in the moment. for days on end, right? Post medicine work, there's times where I, you know, I'm on my routine. To go into guys like us, we push and push and push, right, got to be great, got to do this. Like, you guys started this. Like, we got to take it to the next level. You're doing this.

But to go to be able to be in the moment sit in a gym, watch my daughters play basketball and just be in the moment watching them not worrying about like, oh, they screwed this up, right? It's that mentality of high level athletes, right? I'm guessing you guys are the same or as your kids get older. Or you just push and push. Oh, you should have done that. But there's been instances where I've been in the moment. I've been on a snowmobile in the middle of the mountains. And I can see every single snowflake that's coming towards me.

I'm like, oh, I am in this moment right now. Right? There's me, the snowmobile. I'm out. It is nuking snow and there's nothing else. And I can see every single snowflake flying at me. So I'm so, it's like a meditative state. And I've been in a gym where I just, I'm in pure enjoyment of watching my daughter do

something she likes, not being like, oh, she should have done this. Or why didn't she do this? or she didn't need enough protein this last week. So that's why she's tired, right? This thing that high level, I'm guessing you guys are the same. It's like, go, go, go. But when you've seen that calmness, so I would like to say to be in the moment all the time,

the rest of my life just be in the moment with whatever's going on, whether that's good or bad. Like the past doesn't matter. The future doesn't matter. Like sitting here talking with you guys, right? Which it is. It's great, right? Like, that's why it's easy.

And you can talk about it because it's like you're completely in the moment. I'm not worried about it. anything other than right the great stories and about how you know most people listen to this will be hawkai fans and not you know no brass car michigan fans after this so right that is true that is true it always comes back to the big 10 it always comes back he asked before we came on the bus too he's like i got a gift for your your daughters would you want it now before or would you want me to give to you on the podcast i'm just thinking like oh that's a solid dad giving another dad a gift for his girls or something like that.

I was like, we can wait to the bus. And now that he pulled it out, I'm like, ah, he got me. I mean, that's a solid gift. Yeah, it's a solid gift. Very heady play by you. You know? That was given to you by Robert Gallery, a guy who's on the stadium. Yeah.

Right? And I know the coach very well. Like, my wife's still very close. So, you know, maybe there's some scholarships in the future. But I know how you said you wouldn't send them there no matter what. But I'm also thinking, I mean, they look good in the black and gold, right? Black and gold to great color carbon. This could team up, right?

I think yours are a little younger than mine, but... I've already started incorporating, like, we had... On our For the Dad's podcast, we curated this story, this AI story of good guys and bad guys and the good guys are Huskers and the bad guys are Hulk guys. So trying to indoctrinate them into thinking, it's Oscar football. And I was the bad guys. Yeah. Well, we do play each other in a few weeks, so we mightn't have to figure out offline here

how to get back to that game, and then we can posture up on the opposite side lines. Okay. duel it out. I don't know. We might have to try and make that happen. Yeah, we'll definitely have to have fun. That would be beautiful.

Some more fun. Because I do have fun with George each year. I used to have fun with, when I, he was a teammate of mine, Brandon Sheriff. We'd have fun with it every year too. But we'll come up with something.

And he was a stud. He won the Ellen trophy as well. Yeah. He's a stud. Tackled that went to guard. And he was a monster, bro. Like hitting him thinking rich was not fun. Yeah.

He's a good dude too. That's a cool part like you guys, right? We played with all these people. and different people, but they're just good dude. They're dudes, right? At the end of the day, we're all sitting here BS and, right? And the dude's a dude. Right?

There were savages, right? Like I grew up watching Kyle Turley, had a, right? Like, I'm sure you had somebody, but it was, I want to be Kyle Turley. Got a jersey made from, you know, with my name on the back, but his number and the saints. Like I want, what do you think the hair came from, right? Like, dude ripping tellman off, like, oh, that's the type player. That's the guy you want to be around. That's who I want to be.

Yeah. And then we all get together. I met him like, dude, you were my hero. Like, you know, it's awesome. It's pretty cool. Yeah. Dude, thank you, bro. Thank you.

Big hugs, tiny kisses, passes, podcasts around, leave comments. And we will see you next week. Next week. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick.

And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast. Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions.

Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. The story I've told myself can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to be, become whole. This podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the

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