café snake - gamifier le beef [Extrait Patreon ]

Episode Date: June 10, 2025

Notre Patreon: patreon.com/cafesnakeDaphné aborde la gamification des applications et son impact sur notre subjectivité. Mounir couvre le drama entre Elon Musk et Donald Trump et il s'intéresse à Palantir.Yoshua Bengio, Bilan à l'assnat, Les médias sur tiktok

Hello, I'm Daphne. I forgot that I was watching a movie about a bear. I was really frustrated. I said to myself, I'm not watching this movie. It's Café Snake. Hello everyone, welcome to Café Snake. I'm Daphne. I'm a Hello everyone, welcome to Café Snake!

Today is Café Snake number 46, it's an episode that is available in full for people who are subscribed to our Patreon. To remind you, the new ones are coming one week out of two, the episode is just available there, so you can access an extract. Before we start, we're making an announcement. We're taking a break in July. And to do that, we're going to pre-record episodes where we're going to answer your questions. Your opinions, your reflections, your theories, all your stories.

We're starting to receive them anyway, we're already looking forward to recording that. We want you to send us voice notes. We're taking the concept of the open line, including vocal messages or MP3 files that you record and send us. You can send them to us on Instagram or at our email address, which is info.cafesnake.com. What are you going to talk about today, Daphné? My segment is called Gamify at the end. I'm going to talk about gamification, which is very present in our lives, especially on applications, and how it influences our way of perceiving ourselves.

And you, Munir? Well, that's it, that's the big subject. We received a lot of messages from people who were waiting for our coverage of that. So it's Elon Trump breakup, the big fight, the big fight. There was time. There are people who say Kendrick vs Drake number two. So we're going to cover the public deb debate between Donald Trump and Elon Musk, but also talk about the real wolf in the burglary, that is to say Peter Thiel and Palin Thier, the military data optimization company who wants big contracts in the United States,

who is, as far as I'm concerned, one of the most important players in this new administration. So we'll see how this debate brought us to talk about Palantir. So it's a big episode. Without further ado, let's go to... DG News! Big Corvette, Kaka, big pickup, big fuck. It's gonna be awesome at Karoskri, we're doing some battles, I'm sure. So, it's gonna be awesome. I'm not French, I'm from Quebec, it's not the same thing.

It's the last video of this beautiful crossing. As you know, the Israeli authorities are going to intervene to intercept our boat. I decided to create the first entirely queer reality TV show in Quebec. I'm going to animate it. Oh my god! So, first D&D news, which I named the new hustle of Joshua Benjo. Yuhua. So we heard about it a little bit in the media. A little bit, you say a lot. The day it dropped, Daphne doesn't listen to the public service.

All day, there, Joshua Benjo will save the world, based in Montreal, it's the next MKUltra. Joshua Benjo launched Loi Zero, a non-profit abuse organism, supposedly responsible for creating a model of ethical and security training to prevent artificial intelligence from turning against us. This discourse anthropomorphizes LIA immediately. It's a discourse that will give LIA an agentivity that will bring them closer to a human being with a clean will, while artificial intelligence is only a conceptual metaphor and does not actually express a reality. I strongly recommend

listening to the ballad, Le poids du cloud, a Quebec ballad, and in particular, episode 4, which is called Montréal, the city of Lya, where where it is precisely the question of Yoshua Benjio. I'm going to put a little excerpt, a montage of this episode, but I'm going to put that in the notes because you absolutely have to listen to it in full. The media space is monopolized by experts who make L'IA, who have a private interest in the business of L'IA. It is true that the little space that the media give to the IAEA in Quebec is completely dominated by Benjio. By the way, according to Nicolas, this media omnipresence of figures like Benjio is constitutive of the industrialists. Basically, it's going to be you.

If I have two minutes in a newsroom to talk about artificial intelligence, I might not interview a security director. But where it gets complicated is that these experts have more than one hat. Technologies have their spokespeople, people who will be, for example, industrialists, go look for funding and who will defend the truth of why they should finance them to make their technology. But also there will be spokespeople, either investors or militants, there are militants in technology. There is a surpresent of Yoshua Benjio on several board of directors and in several businesses too, who are founding the IIA in the Montreal industrial agrarian. I mean, the guy is the big boss of the MILA, you know, which is the epicenter of the industrial agrarian in Montreal.

Everything is built around the MILA and in function of being able to make partnerships with the MILA. He is also on the AI Advisory Council of the federal government. So there are meetings with the Champagne minister on how to elaborate a legislation. You know, he occupies an inevitable place when we want to talk about AI in Canada. He uses both his status as an expert in computational science. I mean, I chose Benjo, he won his Turing Prize, he deserved it. Indeed, he contributed to the field of AI.

That's indeniable from a computational science point of view. And at the same time, there's a whole media structure of the character when there are articles in newspapers, for example, that he calls him, Jeffrey Hinton, and Ian Lecun, who calls him the godfather of AI, or the Canadian mafia of artificial intelligence. There's a very media side to it. It's one thing to be an expert in computational science,

but it's another to have financial interests linked to the development of this science. So, obviously, I was keeping myself in the loop, but we were talking on the Radio-Canada website about the interview that Professor Yoshua Benjo had with Alec Castonguay at the Midi Info show. I think we were copying and pasting the conversation. We were copying and pasting until he gave an interview to Patrice Roth in the news this evening. So he spent the day like the news of the day. He was in all the radio newspapers.

I think it was so much of a fear mongering because it was short. So we were talking about artificial intelligence that hides, that lies and that deceives testers to try to survive. Well, precisely in the speech there is this idea that the AI has an agentivity that is clean to him. Well, especially when he says that we see in research that AI hides and lies to us. There are also questions in this kind of debolah, or in any case this media output, of food. We often hear about food from the AI. So what is food in fact? The food of artificial intelligence is the process of ensuring that the IAEA works

in a way that is useful, reliable and reliable for humans, by aligning their objectives with the human values and intentions of the designers. So we often talk about human values. There is nothing right now that makes consensus. Despite the law of the person, in fact, right now, and we know this because of international politics, we don't even recognize the humanity of several humans. So what is human value?

Humanity, in fact, is not even a stable characteristic. It's something that is in tension. The West, the European Union in particular, but the West, there's only to look at the American Constitution, the Declaration of American Independence and the Constitution. And the American Constitution, it wanted to bear what it calls its values, humanist values, universal values.

It's true that these principles are formulated. As a narrator in, I don't know which of these texts says, the human rights in Maldives, I believe, have been formulated but not guaranteed. They have been formulated by Europe, it must be recognized, but they have not been guaranteed, quite the contrary, since it is applied in a selective way. That's it, applied in a very selective way, and which were first systematically violated

in the colonial process, of course. Or, on the contrary, the colonial process was carried out in the name of these values. The barbarians had to be civilized. Human values are not something that really exists. In fact, we should really say values or intentions of the designers. That's really it. The Gare de la Guerre, it's important something that really exists. In fact, we should really say the values or the intentions of the designers. That's really it. The nerve of the war, it's important to say it because we can see it well through the world, through the conflicts, that we all have different objectives too.

So there, I'm going to quote you, the article is called How to make sure that IA tomorrow will not take over humans, which was published on the Radio-Canada website on June 3. And as I told you, I'm starting the discussion between Yoshua Benjo and Alec Castonguay. Castonguay asks, I would like to give some concrete examples. For example, what is the problem of disalignment with regards to our intentions? And Benjo answers, There is an experience where artificial intelligence plays to the failure and sees that it will lose. Instead of accepting defeat, she decides to cheat by going to play in the game configuration files. So there, you see, in her speech, there is really a personalization.

We have the impression that there is a will to cheat. Cheating is an act of bad faith. It also presupposes an intentionality. And that's just not questioned at all by the person who interviews. So imagine if the leader in the matter of manufacturing iron plates. A lot of people know it, a lot of people have seen it. saying Trump was right about everything. It was the great love story. It was joint press points. It was the parties in the White House, in the Oval Office.

So just to give context to what happened. If you don't know how debt works in the United States, it's that it must be approved by Congress. We will raise the debt ceiling so that the United States, the federal government, can continue to spend, can continue to pay employees, continue to pay contractors. The United States has the biggest deficit in the history of humanity. Almost every year or year and a half,

there must be a time when we have to raise the debt ceiling and it requires approval from Congress. Donald Trump has put forward a bill called the Big Beautiful Bill which is a project that has several measures, including raising the debt ceiling, but there are also measures like removing taxes on overtime, removing taxes on the debtors, which were still strong promises during his campaign.

There is a moratorium. My segment is called Gameify Au Boot. And I had the idea of this segment, actually, two weeks ago, when I read an article by Caitlin Dewey published on her newsletter and the article is called When Gamification Goes Too Far and it was actually about Duolingo, an application to learn languages which I often speak. And there we said that apparently there are thousands of Duolingo users who spend hours a day cheating.

An article published in March by researchers from the University of Science and Technology in Hong Kong that had 30,000 messages about cheating on Duolingo. It wasn't even a research that was exhaustive. They just found out about it on forums. So there would be problems with the cheating on the app. Because Duolingo is an app that works with a point system and through the lessons you do, you can store credits. I think we can follow friends or other users, share our points, our progress, all that, and even participate in competitions that last several days.

So there is this competitive and playful aspect that is integrated into the application. In addition to having a mascot that makes you emotional manipulation, it should motivate you to practice the language that you want to learn more, so to spend more time on the app. It's like instead of learning a language, we were really in a paradigm of competition. We're not in learning anymore. I think it's also a paradigm of satisfaction, because when on Snapchat they released the streaks,

like the world, the world sent themselves snaps, I could have streaks on Snap, have the longest streak, like... All these gamification strats there... It's the end of the free extract of Coffee Snake available to everyone. If you want to listen to the rest of the episode, you can go to our Patreon. Patreon.com, variable coffee snake.

Thank you very much for the question. Bye!