café snake - Oh Canada de Joe Rogan

Episode Date: January 14, 2025

Dans cette épisode, on décortique le passage du CEO de Meta, Mark Zuckerberg, à la podcast de Joe Rogan. Nous revenons aussi sur la couverture médiatique de l'annexion du Canada par les États-Unis souhaité par Donald Trump. Feux à LA, Pizza Salvatoré, Tiktok ++++ Musique: Bad Bunny: https://open.spotify.com/track/3sK8wGT43QFpWrvNQsrQya?si=d6d4f6d8e11549c1 Zach Scott: https://open.spotify.com/track/6euE7b6tCp6PgckGvx5sEM?si=55095b0abea54e5c Flower: https://open.spotify.com/track/4v91ZsZDAhsXuREsiw1s6l?si=a66719285e1e498d Kinji: https://open.spotify.com/artist/19GYu85T8PlAbWVKKSDWFF?si=yjOsR6-DQQaciuWQENRTGw “Patreon’s CEO on the existential threat to creators no one is talking about” podcast de Taylor Lorenz Power User, , https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/patreons-ceo-on-the-existential-threat-to-creators-no/id1733535260?i=1000683304320   « Mark Zuckerberg Eternal Apology Tour », dans The Intelligencer https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/mark-zuckerbergs-eternal-apology-tour.html par John Herrman   “Well, Well, It Looks Like Mark Zuckerberg’s Wardrobe and Morals Both Got a Lil' MAGA Rebrand”, dans Vanity Fair,  par Kase Wickman, https://www.vanityfair.com/style/story/mark-zuckerberg-wardrobe-facebook-maga-trump   “Young, single men are leaving traditional churches. They found a more ‘masculine’ alternative”, dans The Telegraph, Susie Coen, https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/news/2025/01/04/the-young-men-leaving-traditional-churches-for-orthodox/   “JD Vance's liberty requires your subjugation”, dans Pocket Observatory, par Meg Conley, https://www.pocketobservatory.org/jd-vances-liberty-requires-your-subjugation/   « Christianisme Sauce Internet », dans La Presse, par Daphné B. https://www.lapresse.ca/societe/chroniques/2025-01-12/culture-web/christianisme-sauce-internet.php Donald Trump 2024 TIME Person of the Year https://time.com/7200212/person-of-the-year-2024-donald-trump/

Hello, I'm Daphne. I forgot that I watched a movie about an hour on a bear. I was really frustrated. I said to myself, I don't watch that movie. It's Café Snake. Hello, I'm Daphne. I forgot that I watched a movie about an hour on a bear. I was really frustrated.

I said to myself, I don't watch that movie. It's Café Snake. Hello, I'm Daphne. I forgot that I watched a movie about an hour on a bear. I was really frustrated. I said to myself, I don't watch that movie. It's Café Snake. Hello, I'm Daphne.

I forgot that I watched a movie about an hour on a bear. I was really frustrated. I said to myself, I don't watch that movie. It's Café Snake. Hello, I'm Daphne. I forgot that I watched a movie about an hour on a bear. I was really frustrated. I said to myself, I don't watch that movie. It's Café Snake. Hello, I'm Daphne. Hello, I'm Daphne. Hello, I'm Daphne. Hello everyone!

Yo, what's up! Welcome to Café Snake. Today it's an episode that's available for free on our Spotify, Apple Podcasts, all platforms where you can listen to podcasts. I want to remind you that 1 episode out of 2 is available only on our Patreon. Patreon.com bar oblique Café Snake. Thank you to everyone who subscribes, Thank you to all the new editors. Last year we sent you a quest for a mouth to ear.

The mouth to ear really started so welcome to everyone who has new editors. And thank you for spreading the word, spreading the good news. And that's it, there are lots of Café Snez episodes that are all as good as our recent ones. So go dig in the bag catalog. Also yeah everyone, share and put 5 stars live. Like as soon as you listen, pause a little or don't share and put 5 stars live. Like, while you're listening, pause a little. Or don't pause, but put 5 stars because it helps. Apple really helps. What are you going to talk about today?

Today we're going to do, like the biggest media in our province, we're going to talk about the Canadian-US-Québec association. But through the lens Café Sneakers, are we going to be absorbed, abominated, destroyed? I don't know, we'll see. You, Daphné, what are you going to talk about today? I'm going to analyze and make some remarks on the passage from Zuckerberg to Joe Rogan, the most watched podcast in the world. I'm going to be more interested in the vision of a certain muscular masculinism

that is articulated during the podcast. Without further ado, the DG News! Tududu! during the podcast. Without further ado, the DG News. I'm going to be singing a song that I've been listening to for a long time. I'm going to be singing a song that I've been listening to for a long time. I'm going to be singing a song that I've been listening to for a long time. I'm going to be singing a song that I've been listening to for a long time. I'm going to be singing a song that I've been listening to for a long time. I'm going to be singing a song that I've been listening to for a long time. I'm going to be singing a song that I've been listening to for a long time. I'm going to be singing a song that I've been listening to for a long time.

I'm going to be singing a song that I've been listening to for a long time. I'm going to be singing a song that I've been listening to for a long time. I'm going to be singing a song that I've been listening to for a long time. I'm going to be singing a song that I've been listening to for a long time. I'm going to be singing a song that I've been listening to for a long time. I'm going to be singing a song that I've been listening to for a long time. Okay guys, here is the very latest update on the TikTok band. TikTok! in and out of 2025, so let's see if it will continue and if you will speculate. The Pizzeria Salvatore was born in St. George in 1964, after an Italian immigrant fell in love with a beautiful sron. There is a new one that we talked about in the last episode or in the episode of In-N-Out that we wanted to talk about eventually. There is a new development.

It's all around the Abatielo family, the owners of the Pizza Salvatore banners, which is a pizzeria that makes pizza. But which also makes a lot of promotions for double occupations. They make a lot of promotions everywhere in the media universe of the Quebeckers. Pizza Salvatore was a small pizzeria a lot everywhere in the media world of Quebecers. Pizza Salvatore was a small pizza restaurant that had two in the Quebec region. And right now there are more than 500 restaurants in the Abatiello group. Because they not only own Pizza Salvatore, but Topla, Creme Riche and Manny. And Jack Lecoq now.

What's interesting with this family is that they grow their empire with a strong presence on social media, mainly TikTok. They produce excessively a lot of content. You told me that they're like the Kardashians of Quebec. Well that's because their marketing strategy is led by the director of communications, VP Elisabeth Abatielo, who is in charge of communications. She created a kind of ecosystem, a salvation ecosystem, an ecosystem Abatielo. It's a second generation company, maybe even third generation, I don't know exactly the chronology. But the company was bought back to the father by 5 children.

The 5 children in Batialou, they are the ones who are in charge of the company at the moment. They produce all the content on their own accounts. And each child, like their uncle, there is one who will give more political takes. I risk being curious to see some stupid asses. Another 64.8 million sent to Ukraine. Our money, to us Canadians. There's one that will talk more about the product. The other that will talk more about the company.

There's even the father who has a account. A great-grandfather who is a tanned guy that we bother with with tiktoks. That's a bit his character. What I wanted to bring back to Café Snick is that they are so much in a kind of expansionist tangent. In an episode more dedicated to this, we could really analyze their communication strategy. But it's really the launch of their new product in a completely different sector that interests me and that I want to keep an eye on. They are going to launch a new real estate platform called YouBee.

Which will automate and simplify all real estate transactions which will be a kind of a key service for the house seller. YouBee, the new real estate platform that will be launched on March 1st will provide you with endless and free leads. That means no longer need to spend a single cent in marketing. It's over. They want to shock the real estate world. They want to become the biggest real estate platform in Quebec.

Am I wrong? Yes, they said they were going to use artificial intelligence. If you go on their website, one of the strengths of the UB group is their artificial intelligence that helps you. Normally you will need to hire such and such person. I'm talking about it because I've seen a lot of comments on TikTok that you will hear from people in the real estate world who are questioning what they are for, what they are against, what the Abatialo will do. The Ubi real estate platform. Since the Abatialo family made the announcement that they were resuming the project of the Ubi real estate platform in May. a project that wants to set up a web system where people can announce their own house, and maybe save the commissions, and then call on other professionals. Is the concept good? Yes. Is it something that has been done? Yes. Is it something that they will be able to do differently, in an innovative way? Maybe. And I find that interesting because the culture that the forward, the abatielos, is very political too.

Because one of their uncles is Maxime Bernier, the head of the People's Party of Canada, who is the most right-wing party in the federal. And in fact, there is a culture that is very down to earth. We are simple entrepreneurs. Libertarians. Yes, we have the French avant-g language office, we put sticks in the wheels, Quebec doesn't let us move forward. And it's this idea that brings us to the real estate market.

We are in a housing crisis, we are in a crisis of access to housing, crisis of becoming owners. And they are just like, no, we are going to become the biggest site, it's going to be free, no one is going to pay. There is like what did you put in the rollout. I don't know what it is yet, but the website is supposed to be released on March 1st. So we still have time, but I'm going to put the table down now. What they're going to offer is a service where people will be able to register their house

and receive submissions from real estate agents to say, I want to sell your house, I can give you this price, this price. And then the person who sells a house could actually choose. There's a lot going on. And the real estate market in Quebec and Canada in general, it's such a big industry. And it brings back to OD. There were 8 real estate agents in Occupation Double this year I think. It's in the era of the moment. If it was any of these people who said that, like I'm going to revolutionize the real estate market in Quebec, I would be like, ok go for it.

But since they have a lot of resources, they are established entrepreneurs, I don't know what they will do with that. But to keep it under the radar. To be continued. What's really happened is for the first 20 years of the web, 15 years of the web, it was really organized around this concept of the follower, which is an idea that emerged at the beginning of web two, right? You had feeds, you had publishing, self-publishing tools like Facebook and Instagram and YouTube, and you could follow somebody and build a community. And that was essentially a guaranteed line of communication to the people that chose

to follow you. They basically, when they said follow, it was not just, I like you and I like your work. It was, I want to hear the things that you have to say in the future. That's what the premise of Patreon. So of course, they had a a bit of a chat, in my opinion, when he was talking to a business manager. He talked about what he calls the death of the followers. My friend said that this concept is not new. I found it interesting anyway because he referred to social media when it appeared in our lives.

It was really built around the principle of subscription, so the following, the figure of the subscriber's follower was central to these platforms. I think for example on Facebook in particular, or even Instagram or Twitter. With applications like the TikTok application, there is really a change in the level of content that is presented to us. TikTok for those who don't have it, it's an algorithmic thread where we'll have content that's based on our interests, or at least what the algorithm thinks interests us, and not necessarily the content of the creators we follow. So it's like this principle of subscription and the figure of the subscriber became less important. It affects a little the parasocial relationships because on TikTok, it's like the number of subscribers was inflated,

so there was really a kind of much larger quantity than on other platforms. For example, there is the dancer Enola Bedard, who is a Quebecois dancer who lives, I think, currently in LA, who has made a lot of talk about her because she has a huge following, she even went to everyone who talks about her. We looked yesterday and she had 16.9 million subscribers on TikTok, but it's as if that number of subscribers wasn't necessarily translatable in an extremely strong parasocial link.

It's a link that is more precarious, that is more volatile, because it is created precisely on a TikTok platform that doesn't necessarily focus on this idea of subscription and parasocial links. Through the kind of attention-seeking economy and content creators, there are often big conventions, meetings where content creators can meet their fans. And then they talked about the fact that there had been more and more difficulties for TikTok stars to attract these people during conventions. So people didn't introduce themselves.

And it's funny because this year I saw Enola Bedard in a convention with her mother who appeared at her booth and there was absolutely no one, and she turned her thumbs. We see that the social network is not at all the same as elsewhere. It also made me think of a policy that a state had announced that was going to start to push by creating profiles or identities generated by artificial intelligence on their platform, profiles like that, artificial, that was going to interact with the content of others, that was even going to generate an engagement, for example, by commenting, by publishing content too. I think there have been some big critics of this policy that have announced that they have retracted.

It's like it has come a little wrong the metrics of engagement, the fact that there are false followers, but that's not new, but there is also engagement that is artificial. In the near future, what metrics of engagement will tell us, really, what it will reveal to us? I think that these metrics or these figures may lead to losing their meaning or their value. Not that the follower is a figure that will no longer exist, but the way we will measure, quantifying the engagement, it will become more and more difficult. And it's interesting because it's this commitment

that attracts companies. And it's on this commitment that we base ourselves to generate advertising partnerships, etc. So it's like the economic model of content creation was brought to be a little disturbed. It's interesting because even on Vine, it was a thread that was somewhat algorithmic thread, but more of a ranking thread. But the time of conventions of creators of Magcon and Vidcon in the 2010s was so popular and there were so many people who

were presenting themselves at Magcon. There were other authors listening who were on Vine at that time. In which years? The 2010s. There was an algorithmic thread, but there wasn't so much content generated by the I was listening to this song that was on Vine at the time. You know, I just got it. In which year? The middle of 2010. There was a rhythm track but there wasn't that much content on it, generated by the users. It was a lot of a creator's clause that made content on Vine that was popular. Tiktok has so much content that half of the videos I watch are of the Outdoor Boys. It's an old man who does wild camping in Alaska. I'm not even subscribed to this guy on any platform,

but his videos are always on my feed at night. And I listen to them before going to sleep. Exactly. I consume a lot of content on human suffering. We've already talked about that. I don't think we've talked about it in a while. But it's like if I had developed that taste, or the algorithms knew that I... It's like, no, but I don't know if you developed this taste, but you just can't stop looking.

People with big muscles, all kinds of stuff. And I'm not subscribed to this woman either, but there's a woman who has cancer, who's in terminal phase and who's dying. So I follow her kind of decline, her agony. She's really made it in the last few days, maybe the last few weeks, her agony. Now, it's really the last days, maybe the last weeks of her life, but I never subscribed to her account, or to her daughter's account.

Do you know her name? Deborah. Okay, alright. Still. It's been months now that I follow her agony. 100m subscribed. In contrast to that, there are many people I subscribed to on TikTok that I never see on my algorithmic thread.

By subscribing, it's expressing the desire to see content. You say, hey, this person interests me, I want to see what she has to say in the future on XYZ, let's say. But I don't even see these people. And speaking of TikTok, the next DJ news is that the ban of TikTok in the US is still planned for January 19, 2025. According to what is planned in the law, TikTok should be banned in the US on January 19. The Supreme Court of US Supreme Court will hear TikTok's arguments at the beginning of this week if you listen to the episode last week. Personally, if we go into speculation, I don't think TikTok will be banned. It's

my gut feeling from the beginning. Well, only the future will tell us. But I'm just wondering, speaking of speculation, if it's something that's registered on the Polymarket website. It says, will TikTok be banned in the United States before May 2025? The yes has 68% chance at the moment. We talked about Polymarket in an episode that is fully available only on our Patreon, an excellent episode called the speculative reality. This is a site where you can bet money

on the probability that a real event will happen or not. It's hot today. I have to evacuate just in time. I don't know what's the first necessity. I evacuated in full glam. I was going to film in unboxing schemes. And we're evacuating because the fire is approaching us, but it's a joke. full glam. J'allais filmer en unboxing schemes et nous voilà en train d'évacuer parce que le feu s'approche de nous, mais c'est une blague.

Notre dernière DigiNews, c'est concernant le feu en Californie. Donc on sait que depuis plusieurs jours maintenant, au moins une semaine, à Los Angeles, qui est la deuxième ville la plus peuplée des États-Unis, il y a vraiment des incendies qui ravagent la ville. the US, there are really fires that ravage the city. Dimanche Choir Radio-Canada said that there were 24 deaths so far. So that's the result. Obviously, several people still have disappeared. There is a media treatment that is still different because there are a lot of people who are around the coast, influential, who have big stands, actors, influencers. And we can see this event through their lens. And it led to a lot of discussions on the internet about how these people were actually vocal when it was about them,

but not when it was about other people in the world. I stumbled upon a live stream on Twitch of Hassan Abiy who was watching a news show. The fire went off, live. There is a kind of importance that is put in the fact that we see this in real time. This is live. And at the same time, Hassan Paikou who lives in Los Angeles, who was a few miles from where the fires were going, so his chat started to get scared, worried about his safety.

And I feel like he was trying to reassure them, but he was playing a little bit in there, in the sense that like, oh yeah, we're ready to evacuate. I saw a quote that was circulating a lot on X, The Purchirer Mags, and that was reported by Ryan Broderick from Garbage Day, who says, Climate change will manifest as a series of disasters viewed through phones with footage that gets closer and closer to where you live until you're the one filming it. And I would say even better, until you're the one streaming it.

I had talked about it in my article for the press, Mediatiser les tempêtes, but there's this dimension now with live streaming, where we're really at the heart of the storm in life. Another thing that I noticed that I found interesting is to see these people, often stars, people with a lot of material possessions, who have to evacuate, who receive evacuation orders, and you see them on TikTok, have to gather the necessary, the essentials.

So what are they going to decide to save these people? You saw people like Jojo Siwa, who finally decided to save his old costumes, his viral costumes. Often it was stuff like, well, my pet or old photos, a box with photos. So we really went for things that were more affectionate than... Materialistic. Material, yeah.

Okay, so I called my segment Zuckerberg Muscular and I'm talking about Mark Zuckerberg, the CEO of Meta. He was on the show of Joe Rogan, the most listened podcast in the world. Joe Rogan Experience. That's it. And he articulated a certain vision of masculinity. I said muscular masculinism and that's what interested me. But to put it all into context, I have to say that...

And I'm talking about an article that I'm going to put in the notes, but it's called Mark Zuckerberg Eternal Apology Tour, which appeared in The Intelligencer and was written by John Herman. So he says, we are January 7, 2025, and the new Zouk is showing up again. He responds to the post-election critics, as he always does, so always post-election, he will make an announcement.

He responds to the critics on how the platform manages moderation. And this time, he has a touch of originality when he declares that it's time to return to our roots in terms of freedom of expression on Facebook and Instagram. So what does all this mean? I don't necessarily want to go back to that announcement. He said several things, including that he will not necessarily stop doing fact-checking.

He's going to change the system. He's going to get inspired by Twitter with community nodes, the kind of fact-checking. Crowd-sourced by users. Yeah, and he announced other changes in relation to the subject that was going to be policed or not policed. There's all kinds of hateful language that will now be allowed.

And there's also the idea that he's going to end his diversity, equality and inclusion program. In English we say DEI. This decision, according to the New Work, aligns itself with Trump. It's a right-wing political turn or anti-woke. And it also fits in with a process where several large American companies like McDonald's, Ford, Amazon, Walmart, who are coming back on their diversity, equality, and inclusion policies. And then, just to say, yes, we say it's a right-wing political turn, but there are commentators who say

it's not really a turn because Zouk has always aligned with his personal interests and obviously, he's going to fight with power. So after each election, he literally made an announcement of this kind where he professed a new direction, quote unquote, taken by method. So it's not necessarily something that's outside of his usual modus operandi. And then, he made this announcement on January 7th. On January 10th, he gave an interview of almost 3 hours to Joe Rogan's podcast, a little bit to do like, to advertise his change of mind, maybe? His second time, it was also a year and a half ago.

Well, I have to say that I don't really listen to Joe Rogan, but then I still forced myself. I was quite surprised because I didn't expect that, but about half of the interview was about meat, hunting, archery and jujitsu. That's when we see the fact that it's not a regular audience. It's often when people are stressed out about having to talk about the world, talk about whatever they do. They don't want to release their own words. Exactly. So they will just throw on these subjects,

these areas of expertise, like martial arts, hunting, animals, pyramids, extraterrestrials. And then you know Joe can talk for an hour and a half and then repeat himself completely. But he will do it because he is in front of you. He is passionate. That's it.

It's a tactic to not express express yourself on his political views, to just start talking about hunting and meat. Okay! While I'm going to remember if I ever have an interview. These are really the subjects that interested me. Some subjects that may seem anonymous, but I kind of stick to that. And we talk a lot about rebranding, when we talk about Zuckerberg, a rebrand that has been going on for a few years now. We even say Yassification, Glow Up. We use all kinds of terms to talk about this kind of aesthetic, physical transformation,

not just in its politics. It first went with the aesthetic. This number, according to some users, started about 6 years ago. Munir sent me a tweet where we see Mark Zuckerberg, 6 years ago, in his class, who does a kind of... Who smokes meat. Who prepares meat, but who insists a lot on meat. It's smoking. So, I'm the meat chef. Yeah, someone asked me, do I smoke meat? Smoking meat. Smoking these meats. Smoking meats earlier in the day.

Smoking these meats. Just set the charcoal up and you set the wood chips up. And then smoking meats, grilling, grilling meats. normative masculinity that is really supported. It would be like the beginning of its transformation. And that, it touches on subjects that we have already covered in a great episode of Café Sneak called Meat and Subatons, which is available only in full on our Patreon, so if you're interested, I'm telling you, go listen to it. So that's it, as I said, before it became part of political changes, it was first aesthetic. I think that before Zuckerberg, he was very normie in the way he dressed, it was always the same thing. But it came from Steve Jobs' school, in fact, to create a kind of visual identity that is neutral and not interesting, not even thoughtful, but just... I think he was trying to send you a message through this way of dressing up,

an image of a nerd, a bit of an awkward tech savvy, who didn't put emphasis on his expression, the expression of his individuality through his clothes. He even declared that, well, choosing his clothes was something that made him tired, that consumed his energy, and that he had the chance to wake up every day and help more than a billion people, so he felt like he wasn't really doing his job if he was spending energy on things that were frivolous and stupid like clothes. So by doing that, I'm holding this quote from an article in Vanity Fair that I'm also going to put in the notes, but we really feel that what he wants to

express is that he is really at the service of humanity, so he is selfless. He forgets in this kind of service that he gives us. Service in quotes. As if he was without regard for his own person and that through that his individuality disappears because he was really disinterested. That's how he appears, so altruistic. It contrasts a lot with his look today, where immediately in the announcement he makes on January 7th, he puts on stage his economic power. For example, he wears a world that we value at $900,000.

It's a Groobel 4C, it's a tur a turban model, and there are just three models of these watches that are produced every year. And he also puts his individuality in his clothing choices, for example his passion for antique Greece, so his own interests. This fall, at Metoconnect, which is a two-day event where he will publish Metoconnect technologies and projects, he wore a really ample t-shirt with a Latin inscription which was HOT ZUK HOT NI IL, which means either ZUK or nothing. And it's a pun or a kind of nod to a situation that is HOT CESAR HOT NI IL, so either Cesar or nothing, either Emperor or nothing. It's not at all disinterested,

it's the opposite of being selfless because it indicates a form of personal ambition, where he perceives himself almost like an emperor. He even contributed to designing a series of t-shirts, precisely, where he worked with quotes that he particularly liked from the time of Greece or ancient Rome. For example, Patis Mathos, which means learning through suffering. And he also named his children August and Aurelia, two little girls, in honor of two Roman emperors. A ghostly name.

Augustus and Marcus Aurelius. And I don't know if you saw, but this year he also built a huge statue of his wife. I think it was a couple of years ago, but I remember it. It was two years ago. Okay. It's an imposing statue. He claimed he wanted to bring back the Roman tradition of making sculptures of his wife. Wow.

So I hope you're going to sculpt me. I'm going to sculpt you. And that's it, it's part of the Roman Empire trend. I don't know if you've seen it on TikTok, I think maybe. When girls asked their friends how many times a day they think of the Roman Empire. And surprisingly, there were a lot of men who often thought of often? Yeah. Do you think about the Roman Empire? Like a number weekly? Do you think about it weekly? For sure!

Every time I fight people, This is crazy! I think about like walking into the Colosseum. the problem with these men who are tripping on the Greco-Roman period. And there is a kind of professor of classics at Columbia University who says, this aftertaste for the Greco-Roman era, especially with young men, it seems to be associated with a desire for power. And there, parenthesis, I read several texts from an author on her blog called Pocket Observatory. After that, we'll take it and leave it. But she's interested, she has all these Greek-Roman aesthetic references from members of the New Right, so this informal group she calls the New Right, which is still made up of people in power and billionaires,

she says that it is also important to be interested in this historical period when we are interested in the discourse of these men, especially, let's say, Zuckerberg's announcement that speaks of freedom of expression. Because according to her, so Meg Conley, the woman who wrote about this period, this principle of liberty is often claimed by the New Right. We are talking about freedom in all ways, not just freedom of expression, but we have to understand it and put it in relation to the concept of freedom, the way we had envisaged freedom at the time of the Republic and the Roman Empire. And this freedom is very different from the concept of contemporary freedom.

Roman freedom was something that existed, that coexisted with slavery, and that was proportional to its private property. So the richer we were, the more slaves we possessed, for example, the more we were, in quotes, free. So it's a freedom that flourishes on the oppression of others. According to her, in ancient Rome, a man was free only if he could exercise a form of domination over others, and it's this concept, this idea of freedom, which, according to her, is taken up by the members of the New Right. End of the parenthesis, so we come back to the transformation of Zuckerberg. Yes, there are Greco-Roman nods and all that.

I talked about his shirts with his quotes, but what did he do too? His hair, the most important, the most successful. Yeah, do you think? It really transformed him. I think it suits him well. He's more muscular too, you know, he has like a carrion. Because since COVID, he would's developed an interest for sports, especially juditsu.

Not only that, but he's also wearing a big gold chain, which is a reference to a kind of Jewish prayer, I think. So he's wearing bling. Ice tout. What is ice tout? Continue. The journalist of the Internet Culture, Max Swede, he also says that personally, there would be no objection

to what we say in the conspiracy theory, that this man has access to granular data on all social, cultural and political trends that change all the time, but are up to date, and that through this access to all this data, could transform himself into a human human topic, through his fashion, but also her pastime choices, and finally reflect what is in fashion, activity, and feelings in the era of time. So in the background, where are the Zeitgeist? Who knows, I don't know. Anyway, this change in aesthetics and more broadly, her masculine performance is found

in the J Rogan podcast. It's even discussed, analyzed. We talk a lot about Jiu-Jitsu, but also about hunting, as I told you. He's going to talk about martial arts, all that with Joe Rogan. And there, Joe Rogan is going to ask him what Jiu-Jitsu practice has done to transform his political perspective. It's as if through this comment, Joe Rogan was telling us that in the end, jujitsu is a sport of no bullshit, no excuses, a form of asceticism. It reminds me of Stoicism, which is very popular with this type of bro, which brings us closer to a certain truth. There is really a relationship between your pastime practice, your new aesthetic, and how it affects...

Your vision of the world. ... your vision of the world. That's it, directly. Zook will talk through this about the emasculation in the business world. So I'm like surrounded by girls and women like my whole life and it's like I think I Don't know. There's something the the kind of masculine energy. I think is good Yeah, obviously, you know society has plenty of that but but I think corporate culture was really like trying to get away from it and I do think there's just something it's like I know these all these forms of energy are good and I think having a culture that Like celebrates the aggression a bit more has its own

merits that are really positive. I think these things can always go a little far and I think it's one thing to say we want to be kind of like welcoming and make a good environment for everyone and I think it's another to basically say that masculinity is bad and I just think we kind of swung culturally to that part of the kind of the spectrum where it's all like, okay, masculinity is toxic, we have to get rid of it completely. It's like, no, both of these things are good. It's like you want feminine energy, you want masculine energy. I think that you're gonna have parts of society that have more of one or the other.

I think that that's all good. But I do think the corporate culture sort of had swung towards being this somewhat more neutered thing. At the very beginning, he says that the world of business is culturally neutered. So it's like it's a culturally castrated, male-dominated sphere, so feminized. In neutered, it's the term we use in English to say that we often practice on individuals with penises, ablation or destruction of an organ that would be necessary for reproduction. So it's like they were

finally branding the progressist efforts that have developed in recent years as efforts that were effeminate the world of business. And I think that through that, we gender the Wokeism as something that is feminine. And it becomes the war against Wokeism or this idea of anti-Woke. It becomes a relationship of strength that would be between a feminine energy and a masculine energy. But that's why Elon calls Justin a girl. Exactly, we saw that recently, I put it in my notes. When Elon feminized Trudeau this week on Twitter, on X, sorry, he called him Girl, what did he say? He said to him, he said to him, Girl, you're not even the governor of Canada anymore, your opinion doesn't matter. Feminizing a man of power is a way to finally take away his power.

It's a very, very essentialist discourse. It's quite peculiar that we come back, boom, directly to the essence of what would be a feminine energy or a masculine energy, and that aggressiveness is good, but it's considered masculine. Why is aggressiveness a genre? Masculine energy is good.

And then we're told, well, it's something that's healthy, that remains to be defined, what is masculine energy? genre. Masculine energy is good. Et là on nous dit, bon c'est quelque chose qui est sain, qu'elle reste à définir c'est quoi l'énergie masculine. Et il y en aurait peu ou moins, ou ça serait moins bienvenue dans la corporate culture. C'est aussi parce que c'est les sphères dans la corporate culture qui sont dominées principalement par des femmes. Ça va souvent être les postes administratifs de relations et de ressources humaines, les the posts of middle management, and let's say the division of engineers of a company like Meta will be filled with men

with few women, and it creates a kind of confrontation relationship where the engineers are always harassed by human resources that they see as creating no value in the company. So that's why when Elon launched Twitter, he made every employee stand in front of him for three minutes and said, explain me your job.

And he sent almost 75% of the staff. I'm pretty sure that the majority of people he sent were women. But I find it interesting that, for example, he wants to celebrate aggression a little more, but he's gender-related to aggression. For him, aggression is masculine. Whereas aggression itself is not specific to a gender.

There are aggressive women, there are aggressive men. So it's really like he's rebranding all of this wokeism as a war between masculine energies and feminine energies. There's an essentialism of gender that's at stake. I find it interesting that, basically, in word of mouth, we're talking about DEI, so these communities of diversity, equity and inclusion, but that we focus on it as a war between

masculine and feminine energies, because at the base, it's really something that is super intersectional and it doesn't necessarily have to do with gender. It could be related to racism, I think that was the central question, especially in the United States. But also, for example, to certain disabilities. With Zuckerberg as an example, it's a nerd at heart who has never been one of the boys. Yeah, exactly. So I think that's the thing.

You know, I played football during my school career until I was in college. I had my overdose of One of the boys. So he discovers it in the quarantine, and he's like enamored. He's like, oh my god, I'm in a masculine environment, we can crack jokes, we can be fucking vulgar. That's what I need, that's what I've missed all the time in my life. I think it's his public image that was just effeminate. And in this podcast by Joe Hogan, why is he talking so much about feminine and masculine energy?

It's because he's in full performance of his own masculinity. I am a man, a man as you hear it in your essentialist discourse. I am aggressive, I hunt, I do barbecue. And I like to fight with my friends. What I find particularly interesting is that this importance for him to perform his masculinity, for us to take him seriously, for him to finally access a kind of power, influence, by going to Joe Rogan's podcast, what it tells us is that in the corporate world, you are taken seriously and you are fully accepted only if you offer a performance

of normative masculinity that seems authentic to us, that meets certain criteria. So finally, he explicitly, he admits sexism of the business world in this speech. Because that's what he's performing. He wants to be accepted by the bros. He wants to be accepted by people like Joe Rogan. What does he have to do to be accepted? Play the game. And I think it's, maybe it's because it's the easiest axis for him

in which he can rehabilitate his image after participating in a lot of political campaigns around the control of certain discourses, around the pandemic, around the elections, etc. And then his way of rehabilitating his image is to come back through the UFC, through the MMA, through the offices. But all that, what's hidden is that, yeah, well, in the end, I collaborated with you. You know, the people who are followers of the New Right or whatever, well, the fact that Facebook censored the Hunter Biden laptop story at the time of the Biden campaign, what Zuckerberg himself said, is something that will not be forgiven. Soberg, it's something that won't be forgivable. So he's trying to make people forget that.

And Joe Rogan is a kind of rehabilitation place for those people who collaborated with the establishment. Burn Again Mascu, he says that to be successful in the world of business influence, in the world, point, you have to be a man. You have to perform qualities that are associated with men. During the podcast, I have the impression that Joe Rogan, for at least an hour and a half, will drill Zuckerberg to find out if his conversion is really authentic, if his masculinity, which is put into practice, which is performed,

is really real, if he's really a man or if it's just a performance. I don't know, I wrote in my notes, his political change is also interpreted as a change of gender. It's like he was going to be transitioned and then he talks about hunting together. He asks him questions about hunting. When Zuckerberg talks about shooting in the air, precisely, and then he says, you know, I prefer shooting in the air, I find that... It's more satisfying, let's say, just using a rifle. There you see Joe Ergen who really wants to drill him on that, question him, question him, to know what kind of bow you have. We really have the impression that he's quizzing him on his virility. just a compound bow that I got strung to my draw length and... Did you get someone to coach you?

Yeah, yeah. Who coached you? Um, it's basically a bunch of the guys who, who, um, you know, help run security around the ranch. I think it's that Joe knows that he says that just to please Joe. Like, there are so many dudes who are sitting in front of Joe and who made you believe that, like, yeah, yeah, yeah, me too, I'm a baller, I'm on this,

like, there's a bullshit detector, like, he knows that that's what he does until... Well, there's a big segment that I'm on it. There's a bullshit detector here that Zuck does until... There's a big segment that I'm not going to put, where the man complains about how to shoot at the arch. I found it interesting to see how much his performance of masculinity through subjects like hunting or archery, was even questioned in the episode of Joe Rogan, because you really see him quizzing about his virility, about his ability to really know, well, what is your weapon? There's a lot to say about this interview, but you know, I don't want my segment to last 4 hours either.

But just to say that I called the segment masculinity or muscular masculinity by referring to an article I found on, by writing my new article in the press called Christianity on the internet. I read an article in The Telegraph that, very recently, about a week and a half ago, it was published, which talked about a movement of several, really many men, single men and young people in the United States who left traditional churches, let's say Protestant, Christian, to go join the ranks of the Orthodox Church, who found that this confession was more masculine, which stuck more to their values, and these young men also found that their most traditional Protestant church was, with time, feminized. And there, in the article, we cited an expert who said that this movement was made to think of muscular Christianity,

which is a religious movement born in England in the middle of the 19th century, and which is characterized by certain very precise values, such as the value of discipline, the sacrifice of oneself through sport, particularly masculinity, but also physical beauty and athleticism. I interviewed a researcher to write my article in the press, Jean-Philippe Perrault, a professor at the Faculty of Theology and Religious Sciences at the University of Laval. And he told me that there is religion outside of religion. We could even consider Jiu-Jitsu, hunting, and meat-loving as forms of religion, of religiosity. Spiritual practices.

That's it, outside of religion. Like for example, Joe Ergan, who said that there's nothing that transforms you into a libertarian, as much as Jiu-Jitsu does, so it will really influence and shape your vision of the world. So there's a religious relationship that's created because religion is something that formats your vision of the world, your vision of the future, it also includes mechanisms to domesticate your anxiety towards death, for example. Jiu-jitsu, the kind of lethargy of masculinity as we see it articulated in the book of J.W. Ergan, is a way of proposing a discourse on a vision of the world, even moral visions.

So I thought that we could consider this kind of talk as a form of religiosity. That's all I had to say. I mentioned this segment very originally in Canada, USA, and Quebec. For a few weeks now, Donald Trump has been making what our media calls a joke that Canada should be the 51st state of the US. Is it a joke or a provocation? That's it.

All of this starts when Justin Trudeau goes to eat with Donald Trump in Mar-a-Lago. And I find it interesting the place that Mar-a-Lago takes in this transfer of power. Because we can remember that in 2016 it was Trump Tower in New York who played the role of defiling Trump's influence. I remember very well the controversy when Kanye West presented himself in Trump Tower to do a photoshoot with Trump. Since his election, there has been a sort of power trip of Trump. Or even we could say a ritualhoot with Trump. Since his election, there's been a sort of power trip from Trump or even, we could say, a ritual of humiliation

to make all the people who hate him parade in Mar-a-Lago. Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, Justin Trudeau, Bill Gates. They organize banquets where just being present without even talking to Trump is like a social signal. He's going to introduce himself there, he's going to make a speech at the banquet. He's going to wait for 30 minutes, everyone is like... He's going to be able to put a picture of them in Mar-a-Lago without even talking to Donald Trump.

He's going to dance on Young Men. Exactly. By the way, Young Men YMCA, you know where the muscular christianity developed? In Sweden? In the YMCA. Like for example, the professor of Concordia Gad Saad who was so proud to share a video of him dancing in Mar-a-Lago on YMCA.

Not just any dance, it's like the dance of Trump. People would be very happy to call it the Double Jerk, but I don't know, I don't have a name for this exact dance. Double Bral? I find it interesting because in the video Gad Saad does this dance, we see the whole banquet that does the dance. It's like a ritual. It's like... What is he a teacher of? It's a profession of marketing or behavioral evolution. Well, it's books, it's best-selling, but Elon is... Everyone reads Parasitic Might.

He's someone who's very Islamophobic, he doesn't like Muslims, Gadzad. And he doesn't like francophones. That's how it is, those two axes. He's a zion. And he thinks that francophones are stupid because they make a lot of muslim immigrants come here because they speak french. That's his take on Quebec. He shouts all the time that he pays too much taxes in Quebec.

And that's in Trump's dance. Personally, I find it interesting because yes he had the double jerk but he did the swing of golf in the choreography. I think that was genius. If we can give Trump his genius, we will give him. We come back to Justine Trudeau in Mar-a-Lago. He's going to eat with Trump.

And during the meal, Trump comes back on the We can give it to Trump if he's a genius. We come back to Justin Trudeau in Mar-a-Lago. He's going to eat with Trump. During the meal, Trump comes back on the threat of a 25% final rate on trade with Canada and the US. Justin Trudeau says it all the way, and that's according to Trump, if you go forward with this, Canada will dissolve. What does Trump say?

If you can't survive at 25% rates, Canada should be part of the US. And that's where it all started. I know we were talking about Justin being masked and called a girl, but I've never heard anything as weak as that in terms of commercial negotiations. All of this, all of what's going on with this idea that came to Trump's head, comes from Justin Trudeau's weakness. Literally.

According to Dominique Leblanc, who was at this table when the joke was made, that's not exactly what was said. But I'm sure it's something very similar, like, we wouldn't get out of it if you put here some tariffs. I really hope that the Prime Minister of Canada didn't really say as a tactic of negotiation that we weren't going to survive with these tariffs. You have no leverage. And I think Trump, like Ahmaud Wey, he was very friendly with.

And then Justin Trudeau said it all the loud because he thought he was with someone friendly. We couldn't laugh, we couldn't survive at the price. There, at that moment, a meme was born in Donald Trump's head. I think our media don't talk enough about this initial discussion, or what the idea emerged in Donald Trump's head. That's it, once the dinner is over, there are

first feeds that have been transmitted to Fox News, discussions between Trump and Trudeau. In Canada, we're News about Trump and Trudeau's discussions. In Canada, we're already starting to sell Trudeau's surprise maneuver to go to the cashet to see Trump. But on the American side, the news immediately in the media, Trump told Trudeau that we should be part of the United States. It's like... Here's the genesis of this story. I think it was important to do the chronology before talking about where we are now. Although I say it's been years since our biggest geopolitical threat is the United States, I'm gonna do the chronology before talking about where we are now. Even though I've been saying that for years, our biggest threat to politics is the US,

there are literally tons of clips of me on the internet saying that. What interests me is how Canada became the subject of the day of the American public discussion. So many people who didn't even talk about Canada once, but at the same time, very narrow opinions, as if they knew Canada and even less Quebec. At first, it was just a joke, that's what we were saying. That's what Dominique Leblanc, finance minister who replaces Khrushchev-Freeland, said. Oh, it's a joke, Trump is our friend, I'm texting his representatives, he's not going to send us.

He sends me good men. Blue thumbs. But for Trump, yes, it's maybe a joke, but it's also a meme tool. In fact, you have to understand how Trump explains himself. But it's a troll! Exactly! How he expresses himself publicly. He repeats himself constantly. That's how Trump's language tactic is.

Trump develops formulas that he will repeat constantly. And right now, we are one of the formulas. We are one of the ways to captivate people's attention. To turn real things around. That's why it was strange, see Trump in Joe Rogan. Because this format of discussion could be really bad to the formula learned and repeated non-stop. And I think that's why it was a big success.

It was like a curiosity. Everyone wanted to see how Trump would go into a 3-hour discussion without being able to constantly repeat himself. I think the fact that Trump now has 10 years of active political life makes it exactly what he needs. He needs distraction. And it's even more obvious than before because I'm so used to seeing him communicate.

For him, even the existence of Canada as a sovereign country is a simple distraction to let him relax with the fact that a Times journalist literally said that prices can't go down as he promised. And I quote him. What does he say about prices at the grocery store? He says, Look, they got them up, I'd like to bring them down, it's hard to bring them down, so once they're up, you know it's very hard.

This is a quote after the election. Donald Trump never said that during the election. He was like, the gas will be the lowest in history the prices at the grocery store will be the lowest in history. Two weeks after the elections, they say a journalist will not be able to lower prices. It should be a scandal. But this news went under the radar. And now we're talking about the fact that Canada should be an American state in the United States.

Yet what has raged the most people in Trump is the economy. But it's not a question of economy, it's a question of cultural momentum. I think it's Trump's policy. We don't care. There was a momentum, a pendulum shift that made Trump win. And I think I've often had the impression that, oh no, it's because people are really concerned about inflation. And there's a lot of cultural stuff. So why did Trump win? And it has nothing to do with what he's proposing for the economy. He just said it, he's not going to lower prices. He. It will annex Canada, change the name of the Gulf of Mexico for the Gulf of America. The Gulf of America.

I think Canada is the first, but the next ones will be the EU. Then it will be time, then it will be all the rest. And this question of Canada seen through the lenses of American media and social media of Americans, reminds us all how ignorant they are of our reality in Canada. And especially in Quebec. And in Quebec. And you wanted my opinion on that?

It's a very good thing. The word... But I just, to add, I saw lots of English Canadians on TikTok in the last few weeks explaining to their subscribers or on the web, whatever, what they were talking about. What was the Quebec block?

And also, to represent Canada in the, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, web culture of the United States with his saga of smoking crack. So everywhere I saw dogford clips from A Fox News or CNN or Primpa, all the comments were like a return from smoking crack. I think. Wow. But they look like they have a look of relatives. It's like twins a little. It looks like. I was really deep in the Robford Lord when Loris arrived. Their. Their family must be a whole family. Yeah, well, rip Robbford. Yeah, rest in peace. I know that there is already a tired Trub in Quebec.

And that here, we don't have one, they will have one soon. They monopolize our media, even this podcast. But I think it's important to offer subjective reflections on their circus because it won't stop. What comes back a lot is that on as you said, is that it's the Ontarians who have to explain to people what Quebec is, what the Quebec block is. It's like if we were the unpleasant factor that came with Canada. It's like if you want Canada, you're going'll have to deal with Quebec. And I find that so absurd, and it shows once again the sense of superiority of English Canada, when as such, now that their territorial integrity is threatened,

suddenly you have to be proud of our bilingualism, and you have to be proud of the fact that we have the poutine and the syrup, these are Quebec things. I think one of the mistakes of Quebec's communication in all of this, is that we don't have a Quebec captain, who went on CNN, who went on Fox News. And I think just to bring back something that no one in the media says about this situation. Isn't there Jean Chrétien?

Yeah, Jean Chrétien, but Jean Chrétien... What do we say about Jean Chrétien? Jean Chrétien is a tabardner who stole my flower list. Ah, yes, that's true. You have to hear the speeches Jean-Claude Chrétien made in the referendum campaigns in Quebec. It's because of him that we lost... He's a federalist. He's the boss.

One of the ways to realize that Trump is not serious about all this is the fact that he didn't deal with the question of Quebec in his interventions. Because it would be the simplest thing to do if he really wanted to take over Canada peacefully. It's to divide us between Quebeckers and Canadians. And he didn't do it. It's just a kind of memetic strategy that really shows wrestling. Because it's fighting, it's K-Fab. He will continue to say that he wants to take over Canada. It's completely ridiculous. And what should we do in that sense? Should we embody a fighting character to better answer him?

100% And what would the character be to play? Babyface? I think Trump, right now, is not a... He's a heal for us, but for the Americans, he's not a heal yet. When he's going to enter power, and they're going to see his political failures, he's going to become a heal, but the Americans, it's not a heel yet. When he'll get back to power, they'll see how political it is. Now he's going to be a heel, but right now he's the babyface. What I wanted to say is that if you had to play a fighting character to answer him,

what would be your role? If I was Justin Trudeau, I'd quote the Irishman who says girl, and I'd say bro, shut the fuck up. Woah. With spelling mistakes. With some spelling, shut the fuck up. Wow. With spelling mistakes. With some spelling mistakes in the first place. Wow, ok, but I admit it would arouse a whole discourse. But I don't think it's online with its public persona who is very respectful.

The American media cycle works so much with a kind of meme of the day, a meme of the week that lasts for a cycle of 10 to 14 days, that we'll move on to something else. We just started with that because it's an idea that was put in our heads by our head of state who was completely taken aback by the fact that he had no power in his country, he had no international power and he went all out in front of the US. But I think it's a sign that all the right-wing class in the US and in Quebec are happy with the idea that Canada or Quebec is part of the US. It's really a sign of their fear and weakness. Because if the US really wants to expand, it's really a sign of an empire that is collapsing.

Because it's like the last imperialist breath. The Roman Empire. Yeah, literally. But the Roman Empire crumbled when it over-extended. an empire that is collapsing. Because it's like the last imperialist breath The Roman Empire Literally, but the Roman Empire crumbled when it over extends. Mathieu Bocoté made a chronicle to say that Canada doesn't exist and that's an idea that comes back a lot. It's the fact that Justin Trudeau wanted to define Canada as a kind of post-national state

that when he goes to CNN to explain what a Canadian is, he says that one of the most important things to say that we are Canadian is to say that we are not American. A definition that makes no sense. I think it shows the limitations of the state project which is Canada, and that's why we should do Quebec independence.

Ok, again. No, but we have to say it because I think there are a lot of people think that it won't help the independence movement and the whole circle around Canada and the US. But I think it's just helping the independence movement. Because people in the US who think they're against a Quebec independence movement

don't realize how it benefits them because it will create competition. We will want to attract American trade. I don't think Canada will be part of the United States. I think Trump will get away. I think it's interesting to see that this kind of myth was born in his head. It's an idea that he thought was so good that he kept repeating himself. He's surrounded by people around him who have nothing to say.

They're like, come on, it's going to distract the masses. And that's really how you have to see it. So our politicians who make releases, our information panels who talk about it continuously, without really explaining what I just explained there, I find it really absurd to watch that all week. They're like, oh no, we need to threaten Trump with this and that. I think the threat of tariffs is real and we'll have to counter it in a certain way. By telling him, shut the fuck up on Twitter. In Ireland. In Ireland. That was why we were talking about it.

How would you handle this threat as Prime Minister? How would you handle this threat? How would you approach this with Trump? I don't have a staff around me and a consultant, but I would need a lot of data to know where this trade deficit comes from, where we can leverage on them. My real strategy is to join Russia, and to stop sending money to Ukraine and China. We would be really fired by the United States. It's a joke by the way. And I think someone will take care of that, like, hey Munir, you want to join Russia?

But no, that's it. I just wanted to come back to the kind of media circus of Trump. We're not going to be part of the United States. Thank you, Munir. Ok, so I think our show is over, right? Yeah, our show is over. Well, thank you to everyone for listening to us again. It's really nice. Continue to spread the word, to share the episodes in your stories, to tag us.

And to interact on our Patreon. For this episode, if you're subscribed to Patreon, there's a discussion thread on our Patreon. Yeah, next episode, next week, will be available entirely on our Patreon. So don't hesitate to subscribe if you have the means. That's it, we'll see you next week. The music is by Aslow, A-Z-L-O. Take care, take care, bye!