café snake - pipeline d'influenceur

Episode Date: May 6, 2025

Mounir vous parle du nouveau cours au cégep de Trois-Rivières pour devenir influenceur et Daphné résume la stratégie médiatique de Joshua Citarella pour créer une « pipeline de la gauche ». Duhaime déguste le fameux chocolat de Dubaï, alerte au brainrot de hockey et querelle Hasan VS Ethan, plus retour sur les élections ++Notre Patreon : patreon.com/cafesnakeDigi MixLou-Adriane Cassidy - alépokhttps://open.spotify.com/track/4BHc9ds8Q67eEtHLDPjZBW?si=e11edbc6050b4c5aSource:Politigram of the Post-Left⁠https://joshuacitarella.substack.com/p/politigram-and-the-post-left⁠A New Pipeline⁠https://substack.com/home/post/p-160464189⁠Reportage Formation Influenceur:https://x.com/CGalipeauTJ/status/1917960708962009547

Hello, I'm Daphne. I forgot I was watching a movie about a bear. I was like, I don't watch that movie. It's coffee snake. Hello, I'm Daphne. Hello, I'm Daphne. Hello, I'm Daphne. Hello, I'm Daphne.

Hello, I'm Daphne. Hello, I'm Daphne. Hello, I'm Daphne. Hello, I'm Daphne. Hello, I'm Daphne. Hello, I'm Daphne. Hello, I'm Daphne. Hello, I'm Daphne.

Hello, I'm Daphne. Hello, I'm Daphne. Hello, I'm Daphne. Hello, I'm Daphne. Hello, I'm Daphne. Hello, I'm Daphne. Hello, I'm Daphne. Hello, I'm Daphne. Hello, I'm Daphne. Hello, I'm Daphne. Hello, I'm Daphne. Hello everyone! Hello!

Happy birthday to Daphne! Happy holidays to everyone in the comments! And thank you for coming back to Café Snake! Thank you! Today we have an episode available to everyone, just remember that you that one episode out of two is available in full on our Patreon. So subscribe in large numbers. What are you going to talk about today, Daphne? After Trump's election, we heard a lot about the idea that a left-wing Jew would be needed to do something against the rise of the right-wing online. Obviously, this is a position that has also been criticized. We have seen this from simplists, me-up, like it didn't take the full measure of the situation because the left would have failed

to rally people, especially workers, and it's not necessarily just because of Joe Rogan. So today I won't go into the theory of my opinion, but I will summarize the position, the strategy that was exposed by Joshua Starela, who I often talked to you about in the podcast. He's the American host of the podcast Doomscroll, and he's going to explain how he would create a pipeline of radicalization to the left. And you, Munir, what are you going to talk about? Well, today I'm going to come back to a news that made the headlines this week on a new training that will be given at the Tours Rivière Segep to become an influencer.

It's a training of a few weeks that gives a certificate in content creation. It's not the first in Quebec, but I would like to be interested in the cultural, public, social perception of the influencer and how it evolved over the years or how it was also built by the media over the years. Yes. So without further ado... Lady Degenews. Tadadoum. Karepaka, karepaka, kare further ado, Lady D's News. Tararum. To overcome the challenges we face, Canada must be united.

End cell phones in schools. Too much mockery, too much insult, too much conflict. Today the sun rises Awakening my old regrets Do you drink coffee man or no? No Really? Yeah

Always have a good student I never really knew what I was all about I'm a candidate At the very least, it's total inaction At the very least, it's that you do nothing and that you don't help the crisis of khakis We want to know who will help us Help us We're going to start with the end of the carnival, or the beginning. No, it's the beginning. That's it.

So I'm going to do a quick review on the elections. Mark Carney is the prime minister. The election night was interesting. Thanks to everyone who was on Twitch. Lots of coffee snakers in the chat. Shout out to all of you. When the results started to come in, it was interesting because the preliminary results

coming from the Maritims, gave the impression that it was going to be a good evening for the Conservative Party. And as you know, maybe while listening to coffee snakers, I had a deep intuition that we were going to surprise Trump versus Hillary 2016. So I was like, oh my god, it's happening, that's what's going to happen tonight. I was watching Polymerket and at some point, the percentages are almost equalized. They crossed each other for a brief moment.

And it was interesting to see Polymerket, it was like at that moment, They are almost equal. They crossed each other for a brief moment. It was interesting to see Polymarket at that moment. You really saw the function of live betting. The more the results came back, the more the bet was in direct. And then it was like, oh my god, the results go in for the conservators. Oh my god, it's such a good bet, it's a good bet. When it was like 80% for Kearney. But finally it quickly replaced. But it was interesting to% for Kearney. But in the end, it quickly replaced it,

but it was interesting to see the progress. This little moment, in about twenty minutes, where the Conservatives were performing well, was still funny to see, because particularly on the Radio-Canada's set, we could hear the anxiety in the voices of the analysts. I think it was a nice example of neutral and objective coverage. Are you a dwarf? The anglomar of my feeling is that the polls were not representative and that we were going to see a different result than what was announced on April 28.

It was true and false because the conservatives are relatively maintained, they even increased their support a little everywhere in Canada. But what escaped my analysis is really Quebec who gave the victory to Mark Carney. It's crazy that this candidate has seduced so many Quebeckers. The bloc lost feathers, the conservatives made pure gains, but not in circumscription. I think there would be plenty of analysis that we could do, social, sociological or cultural, on why Mark Carney's speech came to work in Quebec. Maybe it's because of our mediatic homogeneity, especially of an older generation,

that made it more likely to adhere to the speech that Mark Kearney was the man of the situation. But I don't think it's also because people were really scared that the conservatives would come. Maybe. And it's Quebec, the province is the least conservative. But it's the support of the bloc that has finally gone to the liberal parties. That was the flip that happened in Quebec.

The election night, as I said, I streamed. But I realized after the night that I had almost not listened to the analysis panels of Radio Canada live. I was just so hyped and I got caught with Olivier Primo on Twitter. So the next day of the election night, I listened again. The election night in two timespeed. I also listened to the CBC election night. So I listened to Radio Canada and CBC the election night. I listened to it again in 2 timespeed. I also listened to the election night of CBC. I listened to Radio Canada and CBC the next day. And it's crazy how the evening, honestly, I find it flat to say, I found it better at CBC. I saw

CTV clips again, we watched a bit of TVA on Twitch, but CBC had a visual hidden, but also analysis that I didn't necessarily find at Radio Canada. I find it strange because, just to talk visually, Radio Canada is the one with all the new installations. The CBC's set was just more beautiful. And I know that a lot of... Oh my god, aesthetics! I know, but I know that a lot of people don't find it relevant or necessary to analyze, but I'm interested in it.

I think there are a lot of choices that I preferred at CBC. The fact that it's dark instead of being lightened up, it gave a sense of ambiguity. I don't know, it was just better, the graphics were better, the analyses were really more pointed out on what was happening on the ground, while in Radio Canada we were already in a kind of retrospective of the campaign. We were less on a cover of an election night, but more on a cover of post-mortem election campaign coverage. I think that's one of the things that made me prefer the one from CBC. Otherwise, for the result, the real loser is the NPD. The conservatives will figure out their business, but I think the NPD will be much more difficult.

Jack Meat is overused politically, even his base is in him. He really did nothing of the kind of noteworthy of this campaign. If you're able to tell me, give me a moment, a slap of Jack Mead sing. Get ready with me. Okay. Yeah. And it's not because I didn't try. I thought his performance in the debates wasn't that bad. But I realized at some point, there was like frustration in the world.

At some point, there were people who hated him online. Even people who aren't online who said to me, Hey, Jack Meade was crazy. During the debates, I was like, Oh yeah, how is that what you saw? I really think, and I think I said it in a comic book, that if Justin Trudeau had never done politics, maybe Jack Meade could have been the first to come,

but I don't think he will. I think if there is a left-wing populist coming to Canada, it's going to be someone... I think my prediction is that it's going to be a white man plus old man like Bernie Sanders who could maybe recreate the nostalgia around Jack Leighton but like a sick millennial from the Toronto region, I don't think that's the only move. I don't think people would ever see Jack meeting as Prime Minister. So that's it, it's like the intro to the election night. I hope you liked the Carnival segment.

I'll maybe bring him back from time to time to talk about Carnival or politics. Well, I also noted that in Rad, the perhaps more digital media side of Radio Canada, they had decided to do a livestream too, which I was going to listen to intermittently. You, Amir, did you listen to it? Well, I listened to it because people were talking about it on my chat. And I was like, there are so many limitations in what they decided to do. Compare, and I compare it to my stream because I'm live, but I have the impression that I was the last one who was alone and that we were going faster.

I was in a real streamer's optics where every 10, 15, 20 seconds, there has to be new information. There was no time limit in my stream. That's a bit like what you learn when you're alone. But when you're with a lot of other people around you, it's not you who controls the change of scene. It's not you who controls the cameras. I think there are a lot of people who liked it, but if I watch a stream of someone reacting to the elections, I'm more used to my formula. or is it a streamer who controls everything and decides the things?

While this one was a bit too intense, but I think there were a lot of guests, I didn't listen to the evening show. I don't know, as I said, I listened to some extracts very intermittently, but I think the idea behind listening with a streamer is a cover that is

embodied, subjective. Sometimes we fall into humor. And there's necessarily not only that, because of the Radio-Canada's journalistic ethics code. So for me, it's like trying to do something, but with limitations that make sure that it will never happen,

that you will never be able to deliver the real merchandise. That's a simulation. And yes, I finally tasted the Dubai chocolate. THE DUBAI CHOCOLATE! Thanks to Munir who offered me a palette. We realized, me and Munir, that this week most of the political leaders had also done the tasting. We saw a video on our webpage and we were like, this is the best coffee snake, so Anto Tran, who makes Dubai chocolate taste like Eric Diem.

I was like, how do you do politics without talking about politics, you make a taste test to a politician. Mr. Diem, as a consumer, how much do you pay for this absolutely viral chocolate bar on social networks after having tasted it, of course? The Dubai bar. I was there in Dubai and I've never seen it. In this case, the chocolate bar in Dubai. And then he asked Duhaime to evaluate the price that the famous bar should cost.

And it's funny because you tell me after he did the test, he tested a Dubai chocolate bar in Ruba Gazal. And he made another one taste that is not from Dubai. So it's the same brand that was at the Bar Au Ver Green at Paul Saint-Pierre-Planmondon. A chocolate palette at Barber Papa at Pierre Saint-Pierre. Paul Saint-Pierre-Planmondon. Yeah, that's it. The only chef he asked to evaluate from an economic point of view the famous palette,

it's Eric Duhaime. He said, I'm a conservative, I'm someone very cheap. He said he would pay $5 for the famous palette, which actually costs $20. Not given. What you need to know is that the cocoa culture, to make chocolate, has a good ecological impact, especially because of the deforestation that causes the culture of cocoa. I got some information. Deforestation, on the benefit of this monoculture, is primarily a logic of research on the price of the production cost

as low as possible among producers. It seems that the price of cocoa on the global markets has been relatively low since the 70s, where in fact it follows a trend at a low rate. And in this situation, the cocoa producer doesn't have the choice

to try to live from his production. In the idea that he can't sell it super expensive, make the kind of white cut, that is to say, to cut, for example, a hectare of forest completely and plant cacao. Basically, make monoculture

and what causes deforestation. So it's directly linked to the fact that, at the base, cocoa doesn't cost enough. So, in the end, we can deduce that despite the fact that Éric Duhaime wants to make the consumer pay less, what he's causing in the long run is the destruction of the planet. Ok. That's what I was going to say.

Otherwise, I wanted to come back to an article I wrote in the press. Shout out to the hit, the bingo. Bingo! For people who are not on Patreon, we have a cafe sneaker. He made a bingo of cafe sneaks that was published in our Patreon. So one of the causes was Daphne bringing up her article from the press. Well, that's it. So my article is called Rich in Skibidi, and I'm not going to talk to you

about it, but it's just to say that I was coming back to the linguistic dimension of brain rot, because you know, in use, brain rot, in my opinion, is often used to designate memes, memetic phenomena that will have a linguistic dimension. But I've already said that in Coffee Snake. So the expression Brain Rot, which refers to garbage, for me, it has less to do with a real brain degeneracy, and more to do with a language corruption, because the more we are on the internet, the more we know these memes,

the more our language will enrich itself from the web jargon. And there, it's under a mutation, which means that when you talk to certain people who are perhaps less connected, they'll have the impression that they don't understand what you're saying. So they don't understand your language, after all. They don't understand your French, like I said, Shane. So that's it, this week I discovered a new account from Brunholt, Quebecois,

based on hockey, the Canadiens in this case, and I sent it to you. And the person behind it, the account tic-tac, is cobronat, while I sent it to them. And the person behind it, the account, tic tac, is co-bronat, while I'm going to put it in the notes of coffee snake. And again, we're going to use the artificial intelligence generative for at least the voice, so it's a text to speech voice. There's even a little bit of the couche discourse, a little bit of the discourses. And it's like, I have the impression that it's a fanfiction that's built around players from Canada.

Rest in peace until next year. I don't know why I'm interested if there are people, comedians who listen to us, dig into the idea of Quebec humor that often falls into Carnivalous humor, meaning that it often concerns the lower body. The poop poop poop. Exactly. So I'm going to make you listen to that.

Nick Suzuki organizes a hockey tournament in the toilets. The poopy is the goalkeeper who makes incredible stops, while the poopy is the referee who sifts Klingang Guli Guli, Watalingang Guli Lingangu at each goal. And Samuel Montembeau is there, ready to make the wave with all the spectators, by shouting What a save Save Kakamu. And everyone is laughing. That's it.

That's it. But I mean, there's a page in the whole dedicated to this kind of brainwashed universe. So I don't know, did you have a comment to make on that? Well, it makes me think a little. If you tell me it's a universe, at the beginning of 2024, there was a big phenomenon on TikTok where celebrities' voices or whatever had started to become accessible. We saw a lot of videos of Joe Biden, Donald Trump and Barack Obama playing Minecraft together.

And then Wookiee was gaming, whatever the game, and it became a kind of lore and universe. But there was no decentralized structure. Who added that to the lore? Who invented that? Exactly, that's what I also saw in an infolette this week, it's that these Brainwut universes there, and for example, Brainwut Italian is still a good example, it makes stories that are decentralized, that don't have a central author. Normally everyone can take the characters and make them live adventures. It's the algorithm that writes the story, basically. It's who managed to make the most engaging video, which will have been seen by the most people,

which will make this new element part of the lore. Absolutely. So, the writers among you, among us, let's think about that. A new decentralized narrative. So, I'm going to go on. Last Friday, in addition to being the party in Daphné, it was like the Super Bowl for the chronically online pop politics enthusiasts. That's what I invented as a term. So the enthusiasts of popular politics. Because there was a 5 hour debate between two old friends and co-animators of the leftovers political podcast on YouTube. I'm talking about Ethan Klein from the YouTube channel H3H3Productions

and Hassan Piker, known as Hassan Abhi on Twitch, the biggest political streamer in the world. To understand the lore a little, you should know that Ethan Klein became famous on YouTube in the 2010s and he was really one of the first big players of the comedy commentary on YouTube. He really was at the forefront of a generation. I listened to it when it started but I wouldn't say that my channel is based on H3H3. But it was like the era of time. There was H3H3, Content Cup, there was after in the plus edgy, there was Lifi. There was a culture that was born that took a lot of scale now. But around 2015-16 it was new on YouTube. It was a big hit!

Over the years he left his YouTube channel to just do the clickbait podcast where he reviews the tabloids of the day. It's a lot more... That's Eatin' Class. Yeah, that's what he does from that time. There's also his podcast Friend Amies with Trus, who has a big cultural moment, classic. And also his podcast with Hassan Piker, who wanted his official intro in the political arena. Their podcast worked well for more than a year,

until October 7, 2023, when Ethan and Hassan started to realize that their point of view on Palestine was irreconcilable. It gave way to almost two years of back and forth on the internet between the two. It really started... You told me that Heaton married an old IDF soldier. Yes, he married an Israeli woman. They met in Israel. But the position of Heaton on Israel is really unclear at times. I'm going to talk about it later, but he understands the cause,

he understands the militantism, but he doesn't understand why people hate him for his calls to compassion for the Israeli people, even if he says he understands the Palestinian struggle, whatever. He started to receive a lot of hate on the internet because his community was mixed with the community of Hassan who was listening to this podcast. Hassan's community is much more pro-Palestinian, not racist. So it made him start to receive a lot of hate, even from his own subscribers. And it really troubled him. And it escalated until, you know,

like there are people who are doxing, people who call the equivalent of the DPJ at his place. It's like, there were really a lot of escalations. But that's all culminated precisely by them who are fighting during this break. Vendredi Terrien. Itin who has become more and more There were a lot of escalation but it all came together by them debating during the break. Last Friday. Ethan became more and more afraid of Hassan. He sees him as the cause of all the hate he receives online.

He treats him as a terrorist or a supporter of terrorists. I had covered this drama a bit last fall in Café Sni when their tide had escalated to the point that Eton had taken credit for the change of TOS on Twitch, so TOS Terms of Service, which included the use of the word Sionist on the platform and which forced a label to be displayed on the streams that cover conflicts and social issues. So it's like, what do I find interesting through all of this? I don't recommend necessarily listen to the debate as I did, but... 5 hours anyway. Yeah, that's it.

If you like that, watch some short stories, maybe it will interest you. It's really chaotic. There's nothing really to come out of the Palestine or Israel issue. As I said the other day, and I think it's interesting to say it again, the nature of the new media ecosystem makes sure that, like in this case, policies from a complete site like Twitch can be changed by an interpersonal conflict between two people. Because Ethan, at the end of the day, is ready to admit that Israel is committing genocide, that the IDF is a terrorist organization, or pretty much any proposition Hassan makes him. The only thing that pisses him off is that he has a hard time because he feels his friend betrayed him. That's really the big thing.

When I analyze it from the outside, it's like an emotional injury that guides everything like the fury of Ethan Klein against Hassan. And that made Twitch change his terms of service. He feels completely abandoned by his friends and he thinks that all this is because of anti-Semitism. And that's what he accuses Hassan of being a raging anti-Semite. Two days ago, he had a discussion with Sam Seeder, who is the editor of Minority Report on YouTube. He was talking to Sam Seeder about anti-Semitism and blah blah blah. And he himself, who is a Jew, Sam Siddu, said that this kind of constant... ...victimization?

...or kind of comparison to any criticism of Israel, to anti-Semitism, is what makes this mixture, makes sure that it increases anti-Semitism. Because people see what's happening in Israel, and it's like, ah, they criticize the state of Israel, then they are treated as anti-Semitic, and it creates this sort of retroaction book that makes sure that both are fed. So I think it's more harmful for the plight of the Israeli people who say that they are one of all time and who will give any criticism of Israel to anti-Semitism. But honestly, as I was saying, it's not that important. Big Picture, this debate didn't accomplish anything, it's really two people. And if you like the drama or the commentary culture on the internet, it's interesting. But it's really a lot of clips, it's like they called it in the beginning of the clip chipping,

they just have to show each other clips of him saying that, him saying that, and the two of them pulling clips, pulling clips. And showing each other receipts. That's it, because they're guys who are so live all the time on the internet, that he's so material, you know? So yeah, that was it. Well, for me, since the speech lasted 5 hours, you know, I didn't watch it, but I was watching you watch a TikTok where there is a guy who just telephoned the entire speech. Yeah, that's it.

The textual content of the speech in a generative artificial intelligence, so a large language model. In all the algorithms. Yes, to know who won the debate exactly. And for me, it's exactly the kind of usage that you have to be wary of at all costs. Mounir, you were watching the video and you seemed to believe it. No, I didn't believe it. Okay, but that's to say that, you know, that's the danger. A great language model, yes, sometimes it can help us generate text, for example, I don't know,

a letter of presentation. Not just that, I'm like my ambassador. But it has no capacity for reasoning. And that's why at the very beginning of this kind of frenzy, of the AI, there are several researchers who insisted on the term stochastic pirate. So, stochastic pirate, to finally really describe what a great language model was. It's a metaphor to describe the theory that these great language models are not able to think, to reason.

Yes, they will generate language, texts that are plausible, but they don't understand the meaning of the language they are using, of rewinding. What I meant to say, because you said I had the urge to believe that, what I mean... My argument when we listened to it was that when you feed data to that, you don't ask it to generate text, you ask it to organize and put it in the table or interpret data. I think it's a good use of... Exactly. You said it, the key word is to interpret. A large LLM doesn't interpret it. No, but I mean visually.

Let's say when I did the segment on generations during the elections, I took the Canada poll, I the generations during the elections, I took the Canada's census, I put it in ChadGPT and I said divide that by that, that, that, like stats. For me, it's good to organize data. Yeah, but that's not what they were doing. No, that's it. It's interesting because the only GPT that gave the victory to Hassan is ChadGPT 05, all the others gave the victory to Ethan.

But in itself, this thing you're teaching me here doesn't necessarily have value because all these products, the technology, Hassan in this description. And we told him, depending on the reactions of the chat and the debate, who do you think won? Well, I think it depends on how you describe a victory. What is a victory in a debate? Is it to convince the widest part of the audience? Maybe we could have said, well, half of the people seem more convinced, or I don't know, but in terms of interpretation, what is said, and all that, it's really... Especially that the big data of LinkedIn Nation is missing, I know I told you, because Ethan really seems degenerated in the debate, you can't see him in just the transcript. Yeah, after that, it's the presentation of yourself that we do to others.

For example, in a political debate, we often look at if the person seems confident, if she has little drops of sweat that pierce her forehead. All of that is important elements. It's non-verbal language. So that was it for the DJ News today? I had named my segment the left-wing pipeline, according to Joshua Sitarrela. Joshua, who I have quoted a lot in the Snake Cafe, who is a visual artist, who is also a researcher of culture on the web, and more particularly of politicization. Poli. Politization.

At the young people's. Yeah, Daphne gave me her book, Politigram of the Post-Left, for my party last year. It's a book that I reallyft, for my party last year. It's a book that I really enjoyed, I recommend it. Yeah, I often put it in my notes, but I can put it back. After Trump's election, and it's a message that we even hear in the Canadian media. We heard that everything could have happened last week. Yeah, we heard the idea that we would need a Joe Rogan from the left to counter the

radicalization towards the right of the younger generation. Obviously, there are a lot of people like me and Mounir, I even think that at Café Snake, we already discussed this idea of the left-wing Joe Rogan. It's still a bit of a simplistic and mixed-up idea. It's been two weeks since we talked about Joe Rogan. He's going to make a people do bingo. So let's talk about this idea of creating a pipeline that would radicalize people to the left rather than to the right. It's precisely this idea that was developed by Sitarrela in a text called A New Pipeline, which appeared in his last newsletter last week. And he's gonna do a diagnosis of the situation, of the politics, since,

let's say, the last 40 years. And there, he takes up a little of what one of his guests, Amber Lee Frost, who said that the left today is very impregnated with libertarian ideas that came from the 1968 generation. And that even if we don't realize it, libertarian ideas, these philosophies, are rooted in the architecture of the social media platforms we use today. The progressive left is kind of leaning back on itself, and we've seen our political commitment through personal, individual choice. The political philosophy of individual liberation, when you just want to liberate yourself, is a philosophy that will eat your tail a little, like a Uroboros snake, self-destructing, and it's not able to face the structures of intardive capitalism.

We don't structure the political and economic regime in which we live when our politics is expressed just by a choice, for example, of consumption. At the moment, it's as if we didn't have enough imagination to propose an alternative strategy. Je Chois Starrela also said that it's the whole neoliberal period, from the 80s until in the 2020s, until now. the Democrats, so the quote and quote, that too is another left-wing bingo in the United States because I already said it, according to me, the Democrats, it's not a left-wing party. So the Democrats and Republicans would have converged at the level of their economic policy. It's as if, you know, economically, the two parties had sensibly the same vision,

but they would have diverged on culture, hence the culture wars. And there, there's a big part of the electorate, for example, the workers, who felt a little lost, who didn't know where to go, because there wasn't a party that wanted to improve their living conditions. I think that just for the record,

when we say that both of them converged economically, there are still things that remain different, especially when we compare Trump and Biden. Everything that was anti-trust in the United States, trying to make audiences, whether on Ticketmaster or on, Meta or on these companies that have become too big. Biden still put forward people who led these dossiers, which Trump would not have done. So I think it's one of the notable differences in the right direction because I think pursuing an anti-monopoly agenda is populist. You're right, but I have the impression that yes, he was pursuing that, but it's a bit like plays, because it never led to real measures.

It's there for messaging, but in fact, structurally, does it change anything? No. But I think that's why, among other things, that like, Mark Zuckerberg is as much an outcast since the elections and even a little before. It's because there, he's going to have the audiences that have just like, the Meta against the Monopoles or like the anti-trust law. He's going to need Trump's Nazi. Yeah, he's going to go to power, that's it. It's not a political party anyway. The Meta here from last year is the rise of right-wing populism. For Joshua Starela, and still there, I'm like a kind of spokesperson,

I summarize his words, it's not necessarily that I have my own opinion, but for him, the only way to counter this rise in populist right-wing is to finally re-align the left-wing parties or the so-called more progressive parties with the workers. So to go get the parties with the workers. So, to go and get the workers' vote.

That's it, he wants to redraw the political conflict lines and trace them in relation to the class divisions than the culture wars, so cultural divisions. What that means in practice, according to him, is that there are people currently that we could really consider as our political opponents, who are the people we should recruit in our ranks. You know what's really interesting in language elements and also in this tournament right now? It's not about purity testing.

So it's not about pure political commitment and not making mistakes or having ideological background. It also takes up a bit of the story of Stare la Meur. There is no perfect elector, a coalition. It's not people who have the same vision of the world, the same practices, the same behavior. In short, after having done this kind of world diagnosis, or at least the state of things in the United States, he will talk about his podcast, Doomscroll, and he says, well, that's why in my podcast, I put it in front of the New Right phenomenon. And also, I'm particularly interested in the fact that the working class supports the conservative party or the conservative parties. And then he tells us that the pipeline that we should build is a pipeline that will directly address economic frustration.

For example, classes that will have a declining economic mobility rather than ascendant. The idea is to talk to that frustration, which could be expressed in a populism of the right, and rather redirect it. Just to say on record, that everything that Joshua Sinarla says in his text, is that it's an intellectualized way of saying, like, woke is a mess bad, and then you have to go back to the left. Ok, that's enough. No, but like, it is what it is, non mais je dis... Donc dans cette idée d'aller ratisser l'âge, d'aller s'adresser à des gens qu'on pourrait

peut-être considérer comme nos opposants politiques, il veut vraiment élargir son bassin d'invités pis aller interroger des invités qui partagent pas nécessairement ses points de vue. Pis ce que je trouve intéressant aussi là, c'est que, tu sais, comme je disais qu'il y avait vraiment beaucoup étudié la politisation des jeunes en ligne, pis comme Mounir, il What I find interesting is that, as I said, there were a lot of studies on the politicization of young people online, and like Mounir, he thinks that young people's political engagement often starts on a humorous basis, it starts with irony. So he says they will participate in a joke or memes, and later, from this kind of humorous pipeline, they will start developing a real political commitment.

For the moment, you will see on Doomscroll, most of his guests are holding a speech that could be taxed as a progressive or leftist, but as I was saying, that's it, he really wants to include other voices with which he is not necessarily in agreement to just widen the gap and go look for an audience that is not already part of the progressive left, in other words, he does not want to preach or convert. to go and look for an audience that is not already part of the progressive left. In other words, he doesn't want to preach to the converted. He wants to create an antenna, a pipeline. There, he warns us, he says, you'll see, I'm going to ask people,

it might destabilize you. So I was thinking that the equivalent in Quebec could be like you, who's going to do a two-hour interview with Mathieu Bocquotet, let's say. One day, we'll have to ask ourselves what the links between the radical left and mental health are today. There's something we're facing, categories of activists who are often out of access, who often have a nervous breakdown, a repetition. Well, even some, in the most extreme, I saw an interview with Jean-François Lisier, everyone who wasn't in it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But that's it, so he says, and I quote, it's the translation of his thing, Every episode of Doom Scroll is an opportunity for the orator, so the person invited, to reach his own audience. So it's like you're going to attract, basically, the fans of Matthew Buck's fans, but it's also an opportunity to capture a part of these people who maybe share some points of view with Matthew Buck Côté, and introduce them to other discourses. Because if they liked the interview you did with the dude, they will go and consult your catalog. Just the algorithm will give them the data. Exactly. And there he says political developments do not occur during the viewing of a single video. We won't be radicalized by listening to a single podcast.

Debates, it wins temporarily some viewers, but it's not enough. And eventually, the viewers, the public, have to come to their own conclusions, forge their opinions in an independent, organic way. And this is a long-term work. According to him, the persuasion will be operated over time, as the spectators discover new ideas, better ideas, other discourses. His media strategy is really to hack the algorithm, or create a glitch in the algorithm. The idea is to create an algorithmic recommendation system, or several modules. He often uses the term node, which can also be seen in language systems.

Programming systems too. Yes, that's it. The nodes. He wants to create algorithmic nodes to expose new audiences to progressive thinking. That's why, let's say, Hassan was on the Tio Vans podcast earlier. But that's it. I found that interesting, that speech. And it made me think about the discussions I had with my air in the past, where you often say that it's important to inhabit certain spaces. For example, it's important to be still on Twitter. It's important to participate in discussions, even if we can see that we are in hostile territory. You still have to be there, you know? Yeah, yeah. Like the mayor, for example, it's me who will occasionally participate in the

political radio broadcasts, or is it often in the do I often get ridiculed and insulted in the chat against the trade of being sold to Radio Canada, whatever, but just to live in their lore, in their media universe, just to be a figure who exists and who holds a kind of counter-discourse to the conservative ambiance that is often in these masculine spaces that are either video games, rap. You're in a musse if you can afford it, and if you're comfortable doing it, why not? After, there are certain people, I don't think it's given to everyone. No, no, 100%.

It has been able to rehabilitate certain people more than others. Especially the women, I don't know. So, but I admit, I understand this strategy, and I think you're right in a certain way. Another thing that I found interesting that I wanted to highlight is that Joshua Sterrela explains his will to receive a variety of invitations, also through his desire to capture the kind of collapse of the contexts that we find online. And we talked about that a little bit. For example, one type of collapse of contexts is that on Facebook, we address people with whom we studied in primary school,

with former employees, current employees, colleagues, friends and their grandmother. We address too many audiences at the same time. But he also talks about the fact that there is a collapse of contexts in relation to the degree of seriousness of certain content. He says, I heartily welcome guests going from serious university researchers to internet personalities, comedians. The Doom Scroll podcast should reflect the chaos and flattening of our timelines on social media where serious political events are accompanied of stupid and exaggerated memes. And then he will quote, for example,

one of his guests on his podcast, the musician Matthew Healy, who said, We need to take silly things seriously. And I found that really interesting. I don't know necessarily what Matthew Healy was referring to when he said silly things. It makes me laugh because it's kind of like that, the project, my project, to me, my info letter, serious thing, before

even writing my book on makeup, makeup, and then my podcast, serious thing. I wanted to talk about phenomena that we don't consider seriously, seriously, like makeup tutorials for example, and we could even say memes or taste tests of Antotran. He put the difficulty of sharing the serious and the futile as a striking characteristic of today's world, of the digital world in particular. And there he said, Today is becoming increasingly hard to tell the difference between the two. And there he gives, for example, the Twitter account of the White House.

We saw the people who manage this account in a behind the scenes. Oh yeah, I don't remember anymore. We saw the whole press team, it's them who manage the account, the White House. It's people who look like they're under 30, 40 years old. We already said in Café Snake that there was a confusion between the real and the fake, in the hyper reality that is our daily bread. But we could add to that a confusion between the important and the unimportant. What I found interesting in this project is that there is really a desire for authenticity and transparency that is put forward.

He even says, before exposing his theory of the pipeline to the left, that several people told him it was a mistake to publicly discuss his media strategy. And he's like, no, I'm going to go all in and I'm going to expose you all before even doing it. And what did he say about the online posts? He said that... But I think the most powerful conspiracies today are the ones that exist out in the open. That's it. And it comes back a bit with the Trumps, like the Nazis or the Rothschilds, or all those big conspiracy theories that we talk about on the internet.

But they don't hide anything from us, they show us everything. What I also saw was that they were taking back the state of transparency, which is very envious online. We always appear as incarnated, for example, content creators, with a political point of view that is often quite clear. And unlike what we can see, for example, in more traditional media, we're not going to say, hey, this person is biased. We see her as rather sincere in her approach, because

she's not going to hide anything, she's not hiding her point of view. There is a form of authenticity that comes out of that. And I have the impression that maybe today that's what people want, rather than neutrality, they want transparency, honesty. Well, thank you Daphné. So I'm going with my segment, I wrote Become an Influencer at the CEGEP.

The CEGEP of Trois-Rivières announced that they had a college certification in marketing and influence. And there I will read the description of the program, it says, aim for knowledge acquisition or a promotion of skills in the marketing and social networks sectors. This training will allow participants to give themselves the necessary skills to work in the workplace where the marketing influence

by the vehicle of social networks is now part of the communication strategies. So basically it's really a marketing course and in all transparency the person who gives this training and who put this training on the line, Jérémy Grandmont, he's someone who listens to Cafe Snake and he's someone I met in the framework of a mini-conference that I gave to these students at Cégep Ambré Grasse. What I would like to talk about is, because we see the little description, it really talks to us about everything that is around managing an online presence, an algorithmic presence, that is to say, maybe setting up a media kit, contacting advertisers, what are the tariffs, what are

the deliverables, what is it? We are really in the marketing of influence. What I mean is that we're purely into marketing or into marketing management. What I find interesting is how Radio-Canada will present it online. It's a course on how to become an influencer. Everyone makes jokes like,

what are we going to teach you to do a makeup tutorial. Juliette comes back from her day of work in a yoga studio. Hello! She likes her job, but dreams of something else. I'm ready to say that I'm really going to be on my marketing influence. Already a content creator on social media. Hello everyone! She hopes to become a recognized influencer. I find it interesting because the word influencer has so marked the Canadian imagination.

I don't know if I told you all this lore in Cavesnake already, but I'll do it quickly. All this, as long as it's me. Yes, there are the proto-influencers, Facebook, Casey Frata, Carlos Desjarbien, all these people who are either in prison or who are either working in construction, like No Offense. In 2017, there was a series that was broadcast on VraiActive, called Influenceurs, where we followed Alicia Moffat, El Rio and Mark Fitt. Right after the release of this series, there was an interview where everyone was talking about it, and according to my analysis, it's really there that the term influencer is like entering the Quebec psyche, which has started to be part of the Quebec clickbait headline.

And then there were a lot of media events that came about that made the word influencer become a very popular connotation in Quebec. Very negative. Very negative. There was the whole incident. That's what brought to the genesis of my YouTube channel. All the PO Baldwin in the taxi that he can't pay.

It's like an influencer can't pay his taxi. And then it became something that even I took up on YouTube. I knew that if I put the word influencer in the title of a video, it would generate more clicks. You know, the way we designed influencers was very stereotyped. It's also a term that has been feminized in the discourse. So very few people complain about this title. They prefer the term content creator, which is less gendered.

Why is it gendered? Why is the term influencer feminized? Because we often think that these are people who come to charm us, seduce us. Seduction is gendered. Sometimes it can be a work that is a bit erotic. We think of all the scandals around Elisabeth Rioux, how we discussed her in the Montreal newspaper or elsewhere. It seems to me, like putting the emphasis on the fact that we can't take her seriously, she's not really a businesswoman because she shows us her buttocks. There is also the pitophobia behind our relationship to that word.

You know, this course, at the end of the day, there are precisely writers like Alissa Muffet and Elisabeth Rioux, before anything else, before being influencers who make stories and posts of advertising, of broad good food or whatever, it was child stars, it was stars, they were like 15, 14 years old on Facebook, before going on Ask FM, before going on Instagram, you know, like they had a deep fascination with their popularity, it was the popular girls. But me, in my time, it was more on MySpace. Yeah, that's it. Because there's something going on. Let's say, they all have exactly my age.

Okay. There's something going on in the fnate that we were like Coming of Age. It's the project. No, but it could have been full of girls that at that time were popular on Facebook, who could have become Elisabeth Rioux. Maybe not Alicia Muffa because she's pretty famous, but let's say Elisabeth Rioux, there could have been so many people.

But I imagine that at that time, there was maybe less over-increasing, where the market is not saturated, but there are a lot of influencers, micro-influencers, macro-influencers, pseudo-influencers, proto-influencers. That's it, and it's just that she took it really seriously from the start. She was so cool, she understood what she was talking about. Oh yeah, and I think they even put in place media strategies like cross-pollination. Giveaways, yeah.

They did a lot of posts in collaboration with other people who had a big following, so they attracted the public from one side to the other. A little bit of what Jechevas Tarelat just said in his little newsletter. That's it, and you know, it's not the first training that is of this kind. I found in January last, it was announced, a new training offered, Pluchita from Radio-Canada, a new training offered to the celebrity Moalou will teach the kings of the business of influencers will allow you to learn the rules of the

job of an influencer, a turn that testifies to the phenomenon of marketing of influence. I hate this term of marketing of influence. I really don't like that it means nothing. It's like at the level of genre, there are terms often said in the common language that mean nothing like the cultural communities. These are words that are put together and that want marketing of influence. It's like... Like diversity.

Yeah, diversity. But diversity at least has a meaning. Like, cultural communities, it means nothing. Pansy, these two words. Communities of different cultures. Communities... It's like you were telling me that I was part of the cultural community of the Quebeckers whites.

But when we say the cultural communities, it's like if... because that's excluding the French Canadian population. It's like you don't have culture, it's so absurd. Like, corporate, HR, anyways. So, the marketing of Influence, what do I mean? The poor girl who gave the interview in the Radio Canada report, who told us that she always wanted to be in front of the camera, that she has 1700 subscribers on Instagram and TikTok,

and that she really wants to give up her yoga instructor job to become an influencer. I find that even in a training, it's like the commodity to make sure that it's like a career choice. It's not necessarily like a career choice. There are a lot of... There are more and more young children who aspire to become content creators. But also in the United States, it's different. There are aspects that are a lot like becoming a YouTuber. Which is, for me, almost like an artistic practice. YouTuber, I don't know.

Yeah, it could be like the equivalent of I want to become a journalist. Exactly, that's of becoming a journalist. Exactly. Independent journalist. While the girl in the documentary talks about how she likes talking to the camera and making lifestyle videos, testing products, they're promised contracts. I see it as, it's a bit like Anto Tran, that see him as the vector of no creation. You know, he's going to define himself as a content creator, and he founded the Association of Content Creators of Quebec. He's the one who organizes the co-founder, producer of the creation-influences gala, but he doesn't create anything.

There's nothing. He creates media content, advertising, but there's no one who's like, ah, my favorite influencer is Antoine Trame. Well, I would say he influencer is Anto Tram. I'd say he creates Slop. Good suggestion. So Slop, what would the translation be? Besides, we can go see...

The bubble, the bubble. I'll check on GDT if they put translation. The bubble, I think. Yo, wait, I don't know. Well, they don't have it. They don't have it. Well, GDT again. The world liked your segment on the language, moreover.

But... Wet food. No, it's a joke. But Slop, the cat's wet. We could translate it like that. It's used by journalists in the United States, especially to talk about everything that is generated by the IA, which doesn't necessarily enrich the... I don't know how to say it, but our understanding of the world, which is... it's a bit like... how do you call that? Feeling? So, according to Wikipedia, Slop is a media of bad quality,

including texts and images made using generative media, and it has a bit of the same pejorative connotation as Spam. Spam, which comes from what? Which comes from a brand of products that was put on display by Hormel Food in 1937. It's the name of a ham. You know, the ham in a box, spam. My point is that there's something impossible to teach in the creation of content. And I understand, we could... it's that when we limit it to a field, like marketing, influence, influence, it's a media tactic in my opinion to put in opposition a monolithic block as the influencers or creators of content. As if my output was similar to that of like, Lisanne Nadeau or like, Brendan Lican, or even on YouTube than me and Chaenne.

As if me and the YouTube channel that I'm going to channel, since we are influencers, content creators, we can put all of us in the same bag and be like, ah, well, here it is, this is the influence, this is the marketing of influence. It lacks nuance, and besides, hence the importance of forging new expressions, new words, to better grasp the realities de façon plus distincte. Tout récemment, j'ai lu un rapport de l'Université d'Ottawa, il me semble, sur les influenceurs et les créateurs de contenu. Ils faisaient pas de différence dans les appellations, ils les employaient comme des équivalences. Donc un rapport sur leur influence dans les élections. Alors c'est même le milieu universitaire qui emploie ces termes-là un peu comme des équivalents. in the elections. So it's even the university environment that uses these terms a little

like equivalents. Me, all these reports, because I often heard that in podcasts, when I listened to podcast of influencers, I'm not an influencer, I'm a content creator. It's like me, I find this debate so... it's like no, I take the hat of an influencer, it doesn't bother me. But we just have to see that all media industries have evolved in this area now. So as long as I have Pierre-Yves McSweeney who makes ads for Super C, he's an influencer. I see him in the same way. You have to attribute him to Across the World. There's nothing different as long as I have him. Well, it's interesting because it also comes back to our discussion about the

keydames in TV reality. So for those who are not aware, in the terminology of TV reality, we use talent to talk about people who, for example, will be UDA, that we will pay with, according to a very precise tariff. And TV shows, so Monsieur Madame Tout le Monde, are people who would be, so to speak, without expertise, et là souvent on ne les paye pas nécessairement un salaire, mais ils vont toucher un per diem pour compenser. L'opportunité qu'on leur donne de participer à un show de télé. C'est ça. Mais ça c'est très intéressant parce que c'est justement là-dessus qu'on va appuyer

le manque d'expertise pour justifier beaucoup d'exploitation dans le milieu du travail. that we will support the lack of expertise to justify a lot of exploitation in the work environment. And another non-professional figure, for example, is the figure of the housewife. Historically, the housewife was considered not a job because it wasn't something to qualify. And then the last part of this segment is that precisely, because since it's in an academic context, I know it's a CIG, but it's not like a university decided to make a certificate in there. I'm not going to say that I'm against the fact that we study how the bureaucratic structure works around, let's say, managing an influencer,

because someone wants to become a talent agent, work in an agency that manages web creators. It's sure that there's a field of expertise that's specific to that, a language that's specific to that, practices that are specific to that, but it's not that different from managing a comedian or managing a... You know, you were talking about the hatred we had about the word influencer, the term, you know, it immediately upsets the critics. It's just that it's polarizing, because basically, it's like, who does it influence? It doesn't influence me.

But it's like, what we're saying is that it's not a real job, they shouldn't do that, there's no expertise. So all that to justify, to not recognize socially that you actually generate value, you know, you do a job. So it can, it can lead to pressure systems. Just to come back, because since it's in an academic context, I find that it still illustrates a kind of delay, especially in the fields of marketing or even sociology, no matter how we study this new reality, that there are independent people who create media content that is more consumed than institutions.

And I speak as a personal example, in 2022 I think, or in 2023, I had been approached by a Quebec university that had had a large funding to conduct a large research precisely on content creators, youtubers, but particularly on whether the creation of content or the new media ecosystem bringing more social engagement by audiences and creators? So I was interviewed by a university professor in Quebec and his research assistants interviewed me and they asked me questions and I was like...

I decided to participate because I was like there are not many people in my position in Quebec right now so I'm going to help them with what I have to give them personally. So I was interviewed and help them with what I have to give them personally. So I get interviewed and they start asking questions. And I found the questions so basic and already outdated at the beginning. And I found it a little weird. I wondered how YouTube worked, how it generated revenue.

They took notes, like little kids that were public. How do you know if these are the questions you ask? And I was like, we were already in the short-form content era. So I was talking about TikTok and algorithmic threads. And I was like, no, but that's it. And they were like, yeah, but what about the questions for the financial demand for this research? It was approved in 2019. And then with COVID, it was postponed.

So now we can do that. So I was finding myself answering a questionnaire that dated almost 4, 3, 4 years. On a reality that had changed a lot since 2019. I thought it really illustrated the academic world as being overshadowed by the media changes. I think that in the context of a CEGEP or a main training center, that's the real reality of the academic world on the creation of content. It's just completely outdated.

What I would like to do is to implement a web culture course. I think I'm going to write an article in the press about it. A large course on culture, but also on the media strategies that are put in place to make propaganda. What is a meme? What is the meme? What is the history of the web? The history of the big platforms that we use? What is the meme? What is the history of the web? The history of the big platforms we use?

What are the business models of these platforms just to train digital citizens who are on fire, critical, and who have a basic knowledge of the thing? Because right now, I think there is really a lack of money. A course in media literacy, kind of. Yeah, but maybe not just literacy. It's just really, you know, to cultivate a critical relationship with everything we consume and with the media in itself. So that was my segment, that was Café Snake. Hey, thank you Mounir. Sorry, we're a little tired today. It's early and we've lived all kinds of adventures, but we'll be back in better shape next week.

Yes, better shape next week and fully on Patreon. Thanks for subscribing. By the way, thanks to everyone who shares. We'll put you in our little coffee and snick story. You put 5 stars. I'm glad you... Thanks to everyone. For real, it's nice to meet you even when we bump into you on the street. It's heartwarming. Be careful.

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