Call Her Daddy - 116- Dirty Deets from The #1 Playboy Bunny (ft. Holly Madison)

Episode Date: April 7, 2021

This week, Father Cooper is joined by an ICONIC guest, former playmate, Holly Madison. During her 20s, Holly entered the Playboy mansion and became one of the many girlfriends of Hugh Hefner, the infamous founder of Playboy magazine. Holly walks the daddy gang through her childhood and relationship with her family, as well as the struggles she experienced internally and socially that eventually led her to not only become a Playboy bunny, but to join the inner circle of women exclusively intimate with Heff, who at the time was 74. Holly’s truth about life in the mansion is radically different than how it was portrayed on the successful reality show, ‘The Girls Next Door.’ Strict curfews, clothing allowances, plastic surgery funds, love bombing, cult behavior, verbal and emotional abuse, were all creatively promoted as the never-ending party for the elite due to the manipulative disguise of one man’s money and power. Holly Madison, who went on to build an amazing career (headlining the Peep Show in Vegas, securing a spot on Dancing with the Stars, and becoming a New York Times #1 best selling author), shares her journey of battling through depression and repression in a misogynistic era, and although navigating through the most difficult time in her life, shows the strength of not only someone who survived, but thrived and did not allow a powerful and wealthy man to tear her down.

what is up daddy gang it is your single father alex cooper with call her daddy oh we're back baby what the fuck is up daddy gang it is your founding father father for another episode of call her daddy. It's going to be a motherfucking good one this week. Daddy gang. I have a few questions for you. Okay. Have you ever had sex with a man in his seventies with seven girls involved? Have you ever lived in a mansion where you had to look exactly like the other girls? Have you ever had a man that would pay for any plastic surgery that you wanted in order to conform to what he wanted you to look like? Have you ever been manipulated and in a verbally and emotionally abusive relationship? The guest on today's episode, Daddy Gang, has experienced all of this. Daddy Gang, if you are not familiar with Playboy because you may be a bit younger or you live under a rock. That's fine.

I'm here to explain it to you before I have this guest on today. Playboy back in the day was a magazine that every single young, adult, old, married man, whoever the fuck, if you were a fucking dick, you had Playboy underneath your bed in your side drawer and you would take out your jergens and do a fat pump of fucking lotion and jack off because there were nude photos of women in the playboy magazine known as playmates playboy bunnies back in the day, Playboy was known for its tagline, entertainment for men with little weenies. And it really built a culture of objectifying women. The man behind it all, Daddy Gains, his name was Hugh Hefner, or a lot of people called

him Hef. He was the king of it all. This man lived the life that he portrayed in the magazines. And although at the time, every man in the history that was breathing thought he was the fucking man because he had multiple hot ass women on his arms. These women were required to have platinum blonde hair, fake boobs. At times he would dabble with having two twin sisters as his girlfriends on his arm, love to dabble in the incestual shit with having these women live in the mansion and be his girlfriends multiple at a time Hef was able to control women under the disguise of his money and power. And this is not a sexual issue. This is a power issue. It looks sexual.

The story is going to sound sexual, but this is a power issue that has to do with the misogynistic fucking world that we live in. However, daddy gang, there is no denying it. Yes. Hef was a smart motherfucker, but you know what? There were one or two women that were just a little bit smarter than little old hef daddy gang the woman today did not sign nnda and she is here to tell her fucking story introducing former playmate boss ass bitch business woman beautiful human being holly madison holly madison welcome to call her daddy thanks for having me i'm such a fan of the show i'm super excited you don't even understand what that means to me because i am the biggest fan of you thank you i would hide in my room and watch your show because

I didn't know if my mom was going to be like you're allowed to watch that or not yeah and I would binge it and I I idealized you like I wanted to look like you I didn't you're so sweet the whole thing you were someone that I looked up to my entire childhood this show was fascinating now reading your book it's clearly the show is a little bit different than reality. But I've been a fan of you my whole life. So thank you. I think today it's going to be cool to have a conversation. And Holly and I had zoomed prior to this just kind of discussing like what what route we wanted to go with this episode. We are currently in an era. We're not fully there yet, but we're getting there where we're breaking down that wall of misogyny.

And because of people like Holly Madison, Holly, I truly believe you paved the way for me and my generation to be able to have a voice. I have this show because of women like you being able to fight through misogynistic environments and come out on top you not only survived but then you thrived after the mansion thank you and like i was saying before on our zoom like i wish a show like yours had been around when i was younger because i feel like when i got into that situation at the mansion which we'll get to um after like my first night there there was so much like shame involved in it that it really made me afraid of like everyone's judgment outside because I didn't feel like I had anyone to talk to you about that kind of thing and even as recently as like 15 20 years ago I feel like just women weren't talking about

sex openly or positively at all it was still like a very shameful thing it was still like nobody admitted to having a body count of more than two people which isn't really realistic at all yeah like if you do like i i totally say like get out there keep going after it where prior it was like oh my god you've had sex with two men disgusting what's wrong with you no one's gonna want to touch you or marry you and it's like shut the fuck up that's absolutely not how it goes so i really thank you for saying that because I think that's why we're here today like you are a pillar of what I look up to as a woman who you had it so rough back then and so we're going to kind of get into because as we're talking back in the day Holly in her 20s was up against the really the heightened version of what was misogynistic culture and then you went head first into the mansion which was

the sexual top tier of anything you could have gotten to and I think you thought it was a glamorized life and it clearly wasn't so before we get into your adult life that you're known for I think it's it's always interesting to kind of delve back into your childhood and if you could if people haven't read the book kind of walk us through like where you're from who you were as a child because I think a lot of people think it's fascinating like how did how did you get here yeah I was born in Oregon I moved to Alaska when I was three I grew up there from ages three to ten and I lived in a really really remote area on Prince of Wales Island it was basically I lived in a really tiny town but there were some off the we moved around a little bit too. And there were some very like off the

grid moments. Like when you see those like Alaskan off the grid shows, like that was very much my childhood. Like I used to read the little house on the Prairie books when I was little. And I would like relate to that because I felt like that was kind of my life. And then I moved to Oregon when I was in fourth grade and we moved around to a bunch of different towns to the point where I was going to like two different schools every year between like fourth and sixth grade. So I had a hard time fitting in. And I also looking back, I suspect that I'm not neurotypical. Like I think I have Asperger's, like I want to go get diagnosed because I have, um, I've always had like a difficult time connecting with other people.

And I bring that up because as we get into the story of me arriving at the mansion and thinking it's realistic for me to have a relationship with a much older man, when I was dealing with all the love bombing and the things that were coming from him, I kind of thought to myself, well, I've never really connected with a guy my own age and I have a lot of time connecting with anybody my age. Maybe I'm just like this old soul and I'm meant to be with older people. So I think that played into that a lot. Being vulnerable, talking about potentially wanting to know if you are on the spectrum. That is we're talking about so many things, but like finally things are getting normalized. Yeah, that's a topic that I don't know is very normalized right now. So for you to come on here and say that I respect you so much. How has that journey been like for you? Like, what

has that has that process been? Well, I never considered myself as someone who might be on the spectrum. I just never thought of it. I always thought I just had difficulties with people. And I was just different. And I just attributed it to being like an introvert or a bookworm growing up or things like that. I just thought I was just always challenged socially. I didn't know. But one time my ex-husband was talking to my mom and he was asking her like, he was saying I was really hard to connect with. And that's like my husband at the time saying that. So that just goes to show how hard I am to connect with. And he was asking my mom about it. And my mom said, well, I always thought she had Asperger's and she just never said anything

to me because it's not, I mean, you can do treatment for it, but it's not like something you can be, you know, quote unquote cured from or anything like that. So she never said anything about that. And there were moments in my childhood, and this was in the 80s when I was really little, where people would come up to her and ask if I was autistic. And back then, autism wasn't being diagnosed like it is today at all. Like there wasn't the awareness. So that must say something. I don't know what it was about me that was giving off those cues, but it's been something that I wanted to go I thought about getting a diagnosis I'm definitely going to get a diagnosis I actually wanted to before I came on this podcast because I'd love

to be able to like speak more intelligently about it but I was just too busy no that's amazing that you're open about that I actually would love to keep updated on that journey with you oh yeah for sure I have so much respect for you to be open about that because it's not a deficit. I think if anything, you coming on here, that's a strength for you to be like, maybe that is happening. And maybe that's why I am the way I am. Understanding no matter what it is, why you are the way you are, that helps you then understand why you make the decisions you make. So in your childhood, I can imagine now you're saying that makes more sense. You're isolated in terms of actual your environment.

You're never in one place at one time. And so you're not getting the typical, oh, those are my middle school friends. These are my high school friends. We're all together. You're constantly moving. And then on top of that, having a hard time connecting with people. So would you say in high school you were like a loner? Would you say you were outgoing, but you just weren't connecting with girls? Like, what do you think you're like? Who were you in high high school you were like a loner would you say you were outgoing but you

just weren't connecting with girls like what do you think you're like who were you in high school if we were like I definitely the weird girl I was like a hybrid I was on the cheerleading team but I was also like the weird quiet girl who would wear like bizarre clothing and we stayed in one place for high school so I was there and I had some friends, but it was never really the same group of friends every year. And they weren't really like deep friendships, like great people. But I kind of was moved to a place where everybody had known each other since kindergarten. And there were some people who were really cool and like really like took me into their group. But I never really had a super deep connection with a peer at that age.

I had a boyfriend in high school, too. But even that relationship, looking back, it wasn't super deep connection with a peer at that age. I had a boyfriend in high school too, but even that relationship looking back, it wasn't super deep. And then in college, I went to Portland State University first, and that was a school with a lot of older students. It wasn't like a party school, like typical college experience. I transferred down to a school in LA and was just never really, I never really had like the normal college social scene or never like when I would date it wouldn't last very long I just had a really hard time connecting with people I watched that's interesting because I watched I think it was like an e-interview that

you had done like 10 years ago and you get to LA because you said you idealized LA you would go there at times for like family vacations yeah I always wanted to live in LA when I was a kid so I was super excited you know I transferred school so I was um there and I also wanted to be an actress so I had an agent I was doing auditions I had um scholarships but I had to keep my grades up to get my scholarship to keep my scholarships and also work just you know for spending money and for rent and stuff like that so I was kind of trying to do too many things at once like trying to get the good grades so I could keep my scholarships and working a lot of hours waitressing so I could pay my bills and also

auditioning and kind of failing at all of them because I was just trying to do too much at one time and it kind of got me to this place where my roommates had all kind of like given up on LA and we're moving back home you know my credit was shot to hell because, you know, I just wasn't that responsible with my credit cards. And I was kind of in this desperate place of literally like sleeping on somebody's couch. And I'd been going to these parties at the Playboy Mansion and, you know, seeing the community there, which all seems very nice on the outside, you know, all his friends like love him and talk him up and he seems like such a nice person. And, you know, some of his girlfriends were talking to me a little bit like,

oh, you should come out with us sometime. And I thought maybe, maybe this is something I should do. So I have like a safe place to live. I kind of skipped ahead. No, no, no, no, this is this is good no you're giving us everything we need two seconds my first question is prior to moving into the mansion prior to getting to LA what was your relationship like with your family because I always think that's an like everyone has their shit with their families or amazing families whatever it is but just the dynamic with your family do you have siblings etc I do have younger siblings but my dynamic with my

family it's we're not super like close but I think that's because I was not really close with anybody and didn't open up to anybody growing up and like when I say I'm not close with my family I think people think that means that they're bad or and it's not it at all like they're great people I just wasn't super close and like when I was making a decision and thinking about oh maybe I should move into the playboy mansion that's nothing I would have ever like discussed with my family okay that makes sense because I think the dynamic always with like every single person naturally wants to be like Holly what did what did your parents yeah what did you tell your parents how did you tell your were you the oldest yeah I was the oldest that's

interesting and I did tell them once I moved in but I didn't tell them you know all the details or anything and I remember after I'd been there maybe a month like my dad came down to LA and he stopped by and like this was during the day and like he came into the mansion yeah and like Hef was busy he was in the office and stuff and my dad was like oh so does Hef even live here okay and I was just like yeah but like but like that's how little they know about anything that was going on or like what the relationship was okay so as far as they knew like their daughter was in a house and it almost looked like a sorority house and like yeah Holly like you said you had one boyfriend in high school can I ask you when you lost your virginity yeah I was 16 okay

and was it with that boyfriend yeah okay so you finally are in LA Daddy Gang she's at a new college she's trying to figure it out you have to explain like how did you even get to the Playboy Mansion and also I think it's important to explain like I grew up on this and I know there's people a little bit younger than me like the Playboy Mansion was everything like yeah it's hard to explain now it would never be allowed now are you kidding me it's like fuck no like Hugh Hefner would literally be like I'm not gonna say he would be Harvey Weinstein but like there was a huge issue now if that was in today's day and age you'd be like are you fucking kidding me absolutely not you're objectifying women not okay nothing but back in

the day it was so glamorized and every A-list celebrity like you name it I'm sure Leonardo DiCaprio, Brad Pitt, like who knows, those people were at these parties because in the beginning it was so exclusive. I mean, obviously you can attest to it more than I can, but I just know that anyone that doesn't understand Playboy and the Playboy Mansion, it was the it place to go and it was infamous and it was everything. Yeah.

When I moved here in like 1999 1999 2000 so long ago it feels so weird to say how long ago that was but going to a party at the Playboy Mansion in LA it was like the thing everybody wanted to do and my job when I was in college I worked at a Hooters in Santa Monica and all the women who worked there were always talking about wanting to go and some of them did get invited because for these parties like the big parties at the mansion maybe the guest list would be like a thousand people and it would be like heff's really small circle of close friends it would be playmates it would be celebrities and then it would be just tons of beautiful women got it like there wouldn't be very many men there at all unless they were like celebrities or like a close friend of heff's

and so you're always get it like girls they're like looking for new girls to come in and get invited for sure and so rant how did you get invited I got invited because I was working for Hawaiian Tropic they would basically like hire you to like show up in like a Hawaiian Tropic tank top at like some random event or something like that another side hustle and um Hef's doctor was at one of the events and he told the coordinator like oh invite all of these women to the next party and I was so excited because it was just the exciting thing to do it was like the exclusive invitation like a few girls at my work got to go and they were always thought of as like really cool and when I went to the first party how did you decide

what to wear oh my god oh my Well, it was a lingerie party. And obviously, like, I didn't want to wear anything too revealing. So I was kind of nervous. So I went to, like, a Frederick's of Hollywood. Oh, my God. I love it. It was a lingerie party, but I didn't want to wear anything too revealing. Well, I didn't want to be, like, thong out.

Right, right, right. But I got, like, a corset. So I was at least, like, my stomach was covered. And I got, like, one of those little silk robes that go over it. So I think I probably wore a thong underneath. But still, I was like kind of covered. So I went and there was another girl, my roommate who worked with me, got an invitation as well. So we were so excited that we both got the invitation.

And we went to the party. And like the party didn't disappoint at all. It was just like the backyard where the party was there was a tent over the backyard it was so beautiful like you saw so many recognizable faces like the women were all so beautiful and people always want to know like were there crazy orgies and stuff I'm sure there were I heard about it but like I didn't see it when I was there I it was probably like too early I probably like ended up actually leaving early I don't know you're like going to bed I was like I actually was probably like too early. I probably like ended up actually leaving early. I don't know. You were like going to bed. I was like, I actually was asleep, but I'm pretty sure.

Because I remember like watching it and everyone talks about the fucking grotto. Yeah. Like whatever the grotto thing. And everyone's like, there's probably orgies out by the grotto. And it was just this like fairytale land. But it's also, I can only imagine how stress inducing to be. I'm like, I have my insecurities walking into that mansion. And I guess maybe in the beginning, although it was intimidating, you had nothing to lose.

Yeah, for sure. Seeing all these beautiful women, I would be like, holy shit, the competition and how you have to look a certain way. And if you don't have blonde hair, like, are you even allowed in? Like those those thoughts would go through, I think, any girl's head of just being super self-conscious in this type of environment and it breeds insecurity yeah for sure when I went to my first party I didn't feel like that because I just felt like lucky to be there and I was just like you know seeing women that I recognized and recognized from the magazine I'm like oh my god they're so beautiful but living there and once you're more

just involved in the whole thing yeah for sure your first party how did you then slowly transition into getting into the actual house and being able to live there I went to the first party and then I got invited because when you go went to the parties they would have you take a polaroid when you arrived if you were new on the guest list and they would grade you like a b or c and like A would be invited to everything. B would be invited, you know, sometimes like to the really bigger parties. C was like desperate or something. I don't know. They're like, shit, we've got a shortage. Everyone's on spring break. Get the season. You're like, shit. Okay. Yeah. And I knew, obviously, like you're told they're going to

take a Polaroid of you when you show up, but I didn't really know about like the grading process until later. So they take a Polaroid of you. And then I got called to go back to like one of the smaller parties, which was like the fun in the sun pool parties they'd have on Sundays. So I was really excited to go to that. It was really small. There may be like 10 to 20 women there and just like half in his really close circle of friends like he'd be in the corner playing backgammon by the pool with some people and then like some of his friends would be like out on the tennis courts but it was a really small pool party and I would go to those and you like you would say hi to Hef or thanks for inviting me but he would never really talk to anybody and I just kind of got to know some of his friends and just the other women that went up there and everybody just seemed to have such a positive view of him and the whole environment. Were his friends creepy? Like, did any of you ever have to, like, sleep with his friends? Because, like, I have talked about on Call Her Daddy before.

Like, now it's, like, there are the, say it's, like, an athlete. And then the athlete has that, like, ugly-ass weird friend. The vulture. The vulture. No, I love that you brought up the vulture because vultures are so real like i've had that in so many of my relationships the dudes have had vultures and they've tried to like ruin my relationship with the dude it's such a thing it is like you are out of your mind half the time they're butt ugly and i'm like you're like getting the runoff and the runoff is like a hot ass chick. And it's like, wait, you are only fucking this girl because of who you're associated with.

Don't get it twisted. And so I'm wondering, like, in the highest form of it, you have Hugh Hefner. And then I'm assuming he allows, because I know he was like a pretty jealous guy. But like, I'm assuming he allows some guys to come into his area. Like you're saying, you talk to them. Did any of the girls ever sleep with his friends? Not that I know of. Like, he was always

really careful about just having other older men around and i know some of them would like try to talk to the playmates but as far as i know it would never really get anywhere he was very selective about how he curated his friend crew i get him out because i'm then i'm thinking like the parties like if there's celebrities at the parties imagine now in today's age like br like Bradley Cooper is walking up to a girl and like hefts in the corner. Like I'm assuming any girl is going to want to go for Bradley over like Hugh. Like was there any issues with celebrities at the time talking to his girlfriends and then having that issue? Like how did you just not talk to the celebrities when you kind of are the main girls as the girlfriends in the party situation? Well, a lot of the girlfriends did like when i first moved in there were six other women living there and a lot of them were

dating other people on the side um i mean they weren't supposed to that was like against the rules and hef was super jealous like i've seen people come in like five minutes after 9 p.m curfew and like get dressed down by him just so it was so strict but like people would try to have side relationships oh for sure people would but like people would try to have side relationships oh for sure people would sneak out people would be like dating guys on the side they would always say oh i'm gonna fly home and visit my family but they'd really be like their boyfriend kid rock or something oh my god i love it i love it they're like casually dating kid rock just a classic in the playboy mansion so you finally get in because i remember in the book you're saying

you basically which i love it you've balls you essentially walked up to Hef one day and you were like do you think I can live here in like yeah and you said like you would like speak high-pitched because he can't fucking hear he's like yeah you're like yeah he wouldn't he lost his hearing in one ear so I always felt like he couldn't hear me unless my voice was like really high-pitched and it kind of just built up over the years so that I had this like mega bimbo voice when I was talking. He's like, that's Holly. Like, at least you can get his attention. And so he says, yes, come live.

Well, I had to sleep with him first. Okay. Okay. Yeah. But that is something I love that you called Kendra out in it. There was like so many things that I wanted to discuss, but like, I respect that in Kendra's book, she had said like,

and then I moved in and you're like, hold on, you don't get to act better than us. Like, hold on. You do have to admit that you had to sleep with him before moving in. Like, let's, let's not get it twisted.

Yeah. Like, I'm not trying to like slut shame anybody or anything, but it's just like, nobody ever got asked to move in unless they had slept with him. Okay, so that's a prerequisite. Uh-huh, for sure. Okay.

Yeah. I mean, you think about it, it would be even creepier if he's like, oh, move in. And then like jumping out on you. That's actually true. It's almost like you, and I guess it's kind of like dating nowadays. Like a lot of people want to have sex with the dude before you're gonna be like you're my boyfriend you're not like let's be boyfriend and girlfriend and then let's try to have sex yeah no no let's fuck first and then if we want we'll get in a relationship yeah so the the infamous night you're out did you know this was gonna go down you know i knew

i was prepared okay we and why because you thought you were going to go down? You know, I knew I was prepared. Okay. We, and why? Cause you thought you were going to potentially move in soon. And so you knew that. Okay. So can you walk them through the night if they didn't read the book? Yeah. Well, I don't think I would have had the balls to approach him and say, Oh, can I go out with you guys one night? And the only reason I felt comfortable doing that is some of his girlfriends had already like casually suggested it like, Oh, you should come out with us some night. So the only reason I even had the balls to do that was because I was kind of desperate like I was living sleeping on somebody's couch like I just felt like I need a minute to like reset my life and I felt like if I could stay at the mansion and you know just have a minute to kind of like

not worry about bills and that is so relatable like I'm sitting here thinking like I've been there where I was dating a guy that had money and I knew he was cheating on me but I didn't want to let him know I knew yet because I didn't have anywhere to go yeah you just need a minute I didn't have a job like yeah I'm like wait where am I gonna go there is that like fight or flight moment of like take care of yourself and then figure it out as much as it may seem unrelatable this crazy world when someone's saying do you want to move into a mansion i don't know how old were you 21 22 22 yeah well i think a lot of people may be like maybe so you have this idea you go out with hef had you known all the girls slept with him or just the main girlfriend because i know publicly don't they say it's just the main girlfriend yeah okay well i assumed they all had to sleep with him at some

point yes but it was impossible to get the full story because the girls would never talk about it ever and in fact right after i joined the group we went on a trip to new york and we were at this comedy central roast they were doing for half and this journalist came up to me and asked me oh you know just asked me a few questions she goes so are you guys like a traveling harem and I just kind of laughed and said yes and then one of the other girlfriends came up to me after the journalist left and she was like what did she say to you what did you say and I told her and she goes no we don't ever say that like we don't ever admit to sleeping with him we only say Tina does because Tina was

like the quote-unquote main girlfriend at the time so they would always kind of blame it on her so they could like keep their reputations intact i guess so it wasn't heff's doing like heff i mean i'm like i don't think heff would give a shit if he's like yeah i'm fucking all these seven oh he wanted everybody to know in fact before i moved in one of his girlfriends had gone she was a centerfold and she had gone on how Howard Stern and she full-on said yeah I live with him but we don't have sex with him and he ended up like banning her from the playmate list like she wasn't ever allowed to like do promotions for Playboy again so he's fully trying to make sure the narrative is he has sex with all these women yeah absolutely which is sort of true

yeah okay so you go out that night I remember you saying you're getting really hammered. Really wasted. I think any girl would do as they're chilling with this like 70, 80-year-old dude. And you're like getting ready for like a potential night. You get back to the mansion. Well, first he tried to offer me quaaludes, which I turned down. Dude, tell the daddy gang what he called them. Tell me that exact direction.

Yeah, okay. The whole story. Okay, I got to back up a little bit too too, just to show you where my mindset was. So I'd been coming up to the mansion parties for about a year at that point. And I was at a point where obviously I didn't know Hef well. I'd never really had, like, a major conversation with him. But I got to the point where I kind of, like, admired him and looked up to him because he was so successful. And he seemed like such a nice person who was so, like, generous with all his friends and always throwing all these you know pool parties and buffets and everybody spoke

so highly of him and just from the outside everybody seemed really happy like I did notice that a lot of the girlfriends didn't show up to like the pool parties and things like that and I wondered why they didn't like those things I didn't know but you're like it's a pool party it seems fun yeah so maybe that was like a hint that they were miserable that they didn't like those things I didn't know but you're like it's a pool party it seems fun yeah so maybe that was like a hint that they were miserable that they didn't want to show up to those things but I didn't see it as that at that time it just everybody seemed really happy from my perspective at the time and um he showed a documentary about himself which sounds funny but he he had a screening of this documentary about himself one of the nights i was there and i watched it and it told this whole story about how he had this problem um he had a secretary who ended up killing herself because she got in some trouble with the law or some big

long story right and he was saying how like he didn't do drugs and he didn't ever want drugs in the house and he felt like the fbi was trying to like set up this woman to like rat him out and say there were drugs at the house so he was like talking FBI was trying to like set up this woman to like rat him out and say there were drugs at the house so he was like talking about how he was like anti-drugs didn't want drugs at the mansion or something so when we're out at the club and he offers me these quaaludes I thought I was being tested I thought he was testing me to see oh is this girl gonna like bring drugs into the house or is she gonna do drugs so I said no and he was like oh I go no I don't do drugs and he goes said no. And he was like, oh, I go, no, I don't do drugs. And he goes, yeah, I usually don't either. But you know, in the seventies we used

to call these thigh openers. And I'm like, okay. You're like, so listen, grandpa, get that thing the fuck away from me. No, no, no. We, and so girls would take them. Absolutely. He would hand them out for years after I moved in. Like there got to be a point where his source wasn't available anymore so he stopped handing them out maybe like three or four years after i moved in but he would hand them out every night and people would accept them just because it would like relax them and then it's like they're going back to have sex with this dude like at least they'll be relaxed and not realizing like what the fuck is happening yeah okay so you deny love it holly you're like you're like no i thought i was passing test number one yeah but now i'm gonna go hit the vodka super hard yeah totally and we

always smoked weed when we got back to the house too so it was like always wasted like i don't remember a time in that bedroom i wasn't wasted okay that's helpful so you get back and the bedroom or the what is it called The bed routine or the nighttime routine. Yeah. What does that even mean? Well, everybody would go upstairs, you know, after we went out and basically everybody would have sex and I didn't know what to expect. Like I said before, I assumed everybody was having sex with him, but I kind of, I think I had the feeling that, okay, well this is my first night out. Maybe I won't be expected to do anything my first night. Maybe I could kind of like ease into it. Maybe I

could kind of like, sounds creepy. Like I'm being a total looky Lou, but maybe I could kind of like see what's going on or like see what this entails, or maybe somebody will explain it to me. Yeah. And, but then when I got up there, I was so wasted and was just kind of like thrown into it that once it was done there was something about the experience that made me feel very out of control so it sounds a little counterintuitive when I say feeling out of control in that situation made me want to like stick to that situation more because other people might say well if you were uncomfortable with that why didn't you just fucking run no but for me like I'm already kind of in this desperate situation anyway and I'd already kind of thought that living at the mansion might be a solution to my problems and I think I felt like if I were just

to leave that night and never go back I would have felt really used and really chewed yeah exactly really chewed up and spit out and then I'd be dealing with all my real world problems on top of wait why did I do that why did I like compromise my boundaries I I completely understand that it's almost like when you make a decision that you're like wait what did I do sometimes it's way easier to lean harder in rather than face the truth and I think it's also really understandable that you're walking into a room where there's seven girls and like you're saying i was hoping maybe someone would like explain it to me yeah but then reading in the

book you had a female that vicky or whoever that you almost said felt like she was like grooming girls where it was like she's in for sure right she's a girlfriend and so daddy gang to give you an idea this girl was already in the mansion. She would then go find girls that weren't fully girlfriends that could come back those nights basically to have sex so she didn't have to have sex with Hef. Like, that's what it sounded like it was like. Yeah, because not everybody would have sex every night. Like, if somebody, like, kept their underwear on, that meant, like, they were on their period or something like that. And, of course, people would try and wear their underwear as many nights as possible but then hef would always pressure them or if somebody wore he's like you've been on your period yeah exactly and i think for her like she used to tell me that she

was like the quote-unquote lesbian of the group like not meaning she was actually a lesbian but that she would go out and recruit other girls and she's like i chose that role and i always kind of felt like it was to win favor with Hef but also like to take pressure off of her so like if she's keeping her underwear on and not having sex as much like he doesn't really put pressure on her because she's the one that's bringing always yeah bringing girls in also I can only imagine how intimidating like at 22 I'm trying to picture myself in that environment and any girl listening you can try to picture it too with me like I remember in the book you said the like two screens are on with porn on the lights are low like it's a full orgy happening but like had you ever had sex in a room with people

watching you no so like not at all like I don't think I've ever had like the most boring basic sex ever so so I'm assuming like that's first of all shocking yeah I can imagine you're like what is happening and then I remember you saying like it was the fastest situation like one minute there's a body on top of you and the next it's like over and he I guess he like does he always just jack off to finish himself off yeah he never comes in a girl also does he ever pleasure girls like did he ever get a girl off or is it all of you just getting him off no i don't think he ever did i'm trying to i'm trying to think i'm trying to go back and be like no that you mentioned it no that that wasn't no that wasn't his thing he was it wasn't his thing to ever pleasure the women no no one was getting fingered no one was getting

eaten out by him i mean he might like finger people but but it wasn't like it wasn't like a big let's get you all so no one everyone's in the room faking orgasms yeah for sure so it's a full show kind of like everything else it's like not just in the bedroom everywhere so you leave that experience there were three types of girls you said after those moments of having sex with hef it was the runners yeah the hustlers and then the fighters and can you describe that to your system so they can understand that well i felt like you know over the years i would see so many women like just come in for like one night and some of them would just disappear like you'd never hear from them again and that's kind of i think what most people think a quote-unquote normal reaction might be like if

you went upstairs and didn't really like what you saw or what you participated in that you would just leave. And then there were people who, like other women who lived there before me and some who came during, who, I mean, I wasn't close with these people. I didn't get along with them at all. And I don't want to like assume I know what was going on inside of them. But from the outside, they seemed like they were just really good at like hustling. Like they came straight from like the strip club. No offense if you're a stripper. I'm not saying every stripper is the same.

But they just knew the hustle and they were good at it. And they seemed a little more detached where I felt like I was just internalizing like all this shame and I just felt like by sticking it out I was just fighting like for myself and fighting to like get something out of this experience I guess I think that's I understand what you're saying like the girls that almost went in there when they got into the room the lights were off and all the girls there they anticipated that they understood like this is the first step and then the next step is hopefully I get to move in like they obviously understood what they were trying to get out of this you went in you obviously had the idea of like i do need a place to say this does look kind of like a great situation possibly

and then you get the reality hits you're in a bed with an 80 year old man with seven girls and after that i get what you're saying you're like hold on if I just fucked this dude I'm gonna get something out of this I can't just now go home like now I get something out of this but like I gotta like keep fighting like what now I do deserve a fucking bedroom in the house yeah for sure like living at the mansion was something I thought would just be like a super fun like crazy experience in my 20s that I look back on yeah exactly I you know I knew it wasn't going to be conventional and I was excited about it and I wanted to stay and like get that full experience even and even though that first night wasn't like a sexual experience that I would have organically wanted to do right in a way just not being comfortable with it made me want to push

more to get the part of the experience I wanted out of it had you can I ask you what was the oldest man prior to half moving to the mansion that you had had sex with oh my gosh like a guy in his early 20s probably okay so this is like so new yeah this is like this is like out of your comfort every everything about the experience was completely different. And I get what you're saying. Like now that you've had time to reflect and you're saying like maybe I, maybe socially, it's like, why is it not easy for me to connect? So maybe this moment was the most validating.

You had felt like you're saying he started to like, you get all these compliments. Oh yeah, for sure. Like when you have this really accomplished older man who is surrounded by all these people who just have nothing but the most glowing things to say about him and he's saying to me like all the things that now i know are super cliche for like groomers but like you're so mature for your age you're so smart for your age like you're so giving for someone your age oh my god remember did you listen to the mia khalifa yeah she's like if someone says you're mature for your age like you're so giving for someone your age oh my god remember did you listen to the mia khalifa yeah she's like if someone says you're moved her for your age fucking run like a creeper like what the fuck crazy like and i remember he oh my god there's that's funny because mia was like

run run run but i get what you're saying but it is kind of like a weird intoxicating situation that you're being put into for sure like here was this man who'd accomplished accomplished so much and seen so much and he's telling me that like I'm really special. Like it's hard not to buy into that because you want to completely. So you move in. You're one of seven girlfriends at the time. First, can you kind of like give everyone an understanding of what this place was like? You move in and there's like allowances, curfew you have you're trying to look a certain way like can you roll that out for us oh my gosh it's hard for me to know where to start because there were so many things like there's the nine o'clock curfew which was one of the few rules I knew about when I moved in like I always say it I always hate it when people say I knew what I was getting into because I absolutely did not like I thought I kind of had like a hazy idea of what living at the mansion would be before I moved in but nobody breaks it down for you like I think people imagine it being like 50 shades of gray where the woman is like sat down in

a conference room and given this long contract and you're told exactly what's going to happen and what do you consent to and what do you not it's not like that at all like that's what I remember you saying too like what a weird dynamic with the girls they don't they if anything they try to glamorize it to the girls outside so more girls come in at times yeah you they wouldn't tell you anything yeah and even as I was there I would ask like the woman in the room next to me I'm like okay what happens this day what happens that day and they would tell me like the bare minimum like they wouldn't even tell me like oh this is the salon we go to that he pays the tab for while I'm like doing my hair by myself on my own you're like bleaching your hair yeah and they're like fully there's a salon that you're

allowed to yeah nobody really wants to help anybody out competition yeah for sure like everybody wants a centerfold like everybody wants more money so you get allowances we would get like a thousand dollars a week which i thought was fascinating because you i remember so savvy trying to figure it out you're like some girls would try to save the money whether you're trying to pay off your student loans whatever save money so you can get out yeah and then there were snitches in the house that would be like I can tell she hasn't bought anything this week like she's clearly saving her money yeah because the money was supposed to be for a clothing allowance for clothes to wear out to a

club or to parties. And, you know, somebody would point out, oh, look at her outfit. That only costs that much. Like they'd tell one of the secretaries. So the secretary would run back to Hef and go like, oh, you don't need to give her that much money because she's not spending it on clothes. So people were like full snitching on each other. Yeah, and it was this weird game where you're trying to make it look like you have something to show for the money, the clothing allowance, but you're also trying to save so you can, like, get out of there. And so you get your own room or you have to have a roommate for a little bit of time? We each had our own room in the big—well, actually, no.

I was put in one of the bigger rooms with one of the other women at first, and then someone moved out, so I was given one of the smaller rooms by myself and then I moved into Hef's room like a couple months later when like his main girlfriend moved out that we're getting there because that whole thing is so crazy to me okay so the female dynamic I think everyone in my dms right now was like you have to ask her like was it like a sorority house was it not kind of paint the picture of I remember the quote was like it made a sorority house was it not kind of paint the picture of I remember the quote was like it made a sorority house look like bible study yeah it was horrendous like the first three or four years I lived there like before it was just me Bridget and Kendra it was like me and six other women and it would rotate like every couple years like there would be new people and

it was just really cutthroat. Nobody got along. Everybody was trying to like snitch on the other or like tell Heffa a lie about the other to try and get somebody kicked out. You started in the mansion though and you were liked because you were like this innocent girl. I was just more quiet than the other women. Like they wanted to like sneak out and go out to clubs and like find the next celebrity to date and things like that. And I just wanted to like take a minute where I could like relax and figure out like what's my next step in life and when hef would do things like have buffet dinners with his friends or like show old movies like i genuinely liked going to those like i liked his close friends and i liked watching the old movies so the other girls liked that at first because they were like we don't want to do any of

that stuff so somebody else is there doing it that like takes the spot and he's not gonna like criticize us for not being there so that arrangement worked but then and then you know when his main girlfriend tina moved out the other girls kind of like pushed me into that position because they didn't want the scrutiny of having to be the one who sat next to him and like ordered his drinks and is there at all the dinners and things like that so they kind of pushed me into that spot because nobody wanted it okay i didn't know that yeah because i thought every girl is trying to get the main girlfriend no oh my god because i holly was like wait why would anyone want that because daddy gang the the main girlfriend has to sleep in his bed now you don't get your own room you have to sleep in bed with him every single night and i can't help but be like absolutely zero privacy zero

privacy you have to sleep with this man every night and now all the other girls are getting the perks of it to be like I have my own room I get the like all the things so did you ever want to be the main girlfriend well at first I was flattered by it because it was like maybe a week after I moved in one of the other girlfriends was like oh I think you know when Tina moves out Hef really likes you you're gonna be his next main girlfriend and of course this is like early on and like Hef's in my relationship so it's still like in the love bombing phase right and I just felt like I was really special like oh I'm like the newest one here like and he wants me in that spot oh my god meanwhile everybody else had like

been there long enough to know what the deal was and they're like we don't want to be there so she can go there but then everybody turned on me not long after because hef realized that he could use like my quote-unquote good behavior as like a comparison for the other girls so if they were like late to curfew or if they were like breaking some kind of rule he'd be like why can't you just behave like holly does and then then they hated me then it was all over yeah you were the person they all hate because now hef is comparing all of them to you. Yeah. And you're like the goody two shoes and it's like, oh, everyone's like, Holly, fucking

go out once. Like, stop being perfect because now you're making us look bad. Yeah. Like at first they thought of me as somebody who could like kind of fill the spot they didn't want. And then they looked at me as like this comparison of what they could be acting like but didn't want to. So then they were like, let's get this bitch out of here it's interesting because like in interviews everyone talks about how you guys were in love

you loved him he loved you he thought he was going to spend the rest of his life with you you were gonna you tried to have children together where do you think that shift happened of you being like i'm just gonna try to get a roof over my head I want this man's validation and attention to being like I'm in love with this older man um I'm trying to think when the shift actually happened because when I was ready to move in I had this vision of him as someone I really admired really looked up to I really thought he was a nice guy based on what I'd seen with my limited interactions with him and his friends. And I had pictured when I moved in, I thought I would be there a year max,

just because I'd seen this revolving door of women coming and going. And I thought everyone was happy with that situation. I thought that's what he wanted. I thought the women were happy with that. So when I decided to move in, I didn't think I was like hurting anybody or taking advantage of anybody. It was just this program that was there and there's an empty spot right now. And I had just pictured us like having this friendship, I guess, because I'd seen other girlfriends of his kind of come and go and they were always portrayed as like having this really close friendship afterward. And they'd always come back to the parties and they always looked so happy to see each other. So I thought of our relationship as that at first. But then I started to feel like I was in love with him in a very like looking back on it.

I feel like it was a very Stockholm syndrome type of thing where I just felt like I identified with him and he was complimenting me so much in the beginning. And I just started to, in my mind, blame all the other problems on the other women. Like, oh, this is a miserable situation. But if these other women weren't here, it wouldn't be like that. Right. And I think also I felt so attached and connected to him because after I'd had sex that first night, I had just kind of locked myself into the situation in a way because of like the shame involved, the shame of like, where do I really stand on this? Did I really think this through? Is this

even like within my boundaries to be like having sex so much in front of a bunch of people? And I was thinking about it today when I was coming here, like imagine having sex with somebody in a room full of women who all hate you and you know they're all talking shit about you. Like, how horrible. I never even thought of it that way until now. Like, obviously, I felt it the whole time. But I was thinking about it on my way over here and I'm like, yeah, that was kind of fucked up. Dude, that is literally traumatic.

How many times a week would you say you all had to do that? Twice. how many times a week would you say you all had to do that twice and and how awful if you're like in a bad situation with one of those girls and then it's like let's all get naked and fuck our boyfriend together like what yeah and they're like watching you yeah it was gross is it weird what did you like was it weird at times dynamic wise like did you ever feel uncomfortable like did you zone out when it was like happening with Hef or were you like aware of like the other girls staring at you like did you feel judged at all during that time I mean I think I always felt judged when it was happening

but I was dissociating a lot like I would always drink a lot when we went out we would all smoke weed when we got back to the house and it was definitely dissociating like even when I think back to it now like it was very routine every time it was very much the same it's not like things really like switched up or got more crazy but it was just this thing that I feel like everyone just wanted to get it over with as fast as possible okay I I'm fascinated to know did you ever have sex with him not in group setting? Yeah. Okay, so you would have just the two of you. Was that when you were the main girlfriend?

Yeah, when I was the main girlfriend. And can I ask you, like, was it good? Like when you're by yourself with him? You know, when I think back to my younger self, I feel like I was kind of asexual for a long time. Like even though I had a boyfriend in high school who I was into and in college I dated a couple people, I feel like when I look back at my college years, I almost feel like I was dating more just out of loneliness or because I felt like I should. Interesting. Because I didn't really feel like I was into guys and I wasn't into women either, but I didn't feel like I was really into guys sexually until after.

So maybe, and I think also not to interrupt, but I think, I think also that kind of plays into maybe one of the reasons I was so okay making the decision to move into the mansion because I was kind of not as interested in guys I wasn't like the typical 22 year old where I'm like crushing on all these guys in college and wanting to be with them or you know really feeling like I need to fuck a certain guy because this guy's hot like I didn't have those feelings at that point so making the decision to move into the mansion it was just transactional for you yeah like oh my god I have to like think this guy's hot because you know what? I'm not even like that horny for any other guy. Yeah, totally. The amount of people that are like, how many vibrators are in this freaking house on a day-to-day basis?

And like, how often are these girls masturbating? Because there's no way, like you had said, like he's not trying to please any of the women. It's just to get heff off. That makes a lot of sense, Holly. Yeah. I appreciate you for clarifying that because I think the dynamic of having sex with this man not getting pleasured there are girls that had boyfriends the question was like why didn't you try to get a boyfriend

like was there ever you at a party where like what who's that one celebrity that was like hitting on you that you're like oh should i risk it all for half and what i'm hearing you say is like you kind of weren't interested in any type of relationship at the time. Yeah, not at all. I wasn't interested in anybody until I met the guy that I dated right after Hef. And that was like at the tail end of the relationship when I had already decided I don't want to be here anymore.

Is that the man you married? No, that's Chris. He who shall not be named. Oh yeah, he who shall not be named. I mean, everybody can figure it out. He's a magician. I remember watching his shit. Oh, yeah. He who shall not be named. I mean, everybody can figure it out. He's a magician. I remember watching his shit. It was wild.

Okay, so you, but you did find him attractive and you did want to have sex with him. Mm-hmm. Interesting. And you do know why that changed for you? I think for me, I don't know. I think I just had to, I mean, maybe it's part of the whole thing where I feel like I'm not neurotypical right maybe I just and it takes me longer to connect with people and I just had to mature into it maybe and I think also just gaining confidence through doing the show and I also got a job at the Playboy studio and just

becoming more of a woman on my own and doing my own things right because when I was a teenager in my early 20s I just didn't know who I was at all right can I ask you when you had your first orgasm oh no I'd had an orgasm like with my high school boyfriend like I was able to do it but I just didn't really like have as much desire I guess like I wasn't I was just not like you're not like trying to like fuck every dude yeah I was never like crushing on random guys really and I don't think I'm asexual now but I think I was for I was just like a very late bloomer like I look back on myself in my early 20s and think I'm like an asexual person I feel like I was just dating and going through the motions out of like loneliness or that's because I felt like that's what I should be doing. And I think that that's okay, though. I think that's what I have tried to clarify more with my show recently.

That in the beginning of Call Her Daddy, the content was so salacious. And half of it was like, let's just try to get people to notice the show. And you're saying crazy shit. And then the point to female empowerment was like, you can fuck 19 dudes in one night and it's fine yeah also i think there's an importance for me now to make sure women know you also don't have to want to have sex every day you don't have to want to do cartwheels on a dick to be cool you don't have to have a boyfriend and want to have sex every day like there's such a pressure for women to be like you need to want to have sex just as much as man why don't you what's wrong with you yeah like there's such a pressure for women to be like you need to want to have sex just as

much as man why don't you what's wrong with you yeah like it's always like men and their testosterone and then women are like i feel like i don't want to have sex as much like what's wrong with me and the fact that you're on call her daddy right now just being like i was like didn't really wasn't interested like i didn't really want to have sex with him and so it didn't really matter that i was just like going with whoever at the time like it wasn't something that was at the forefront of your mind and your life and your brain so that makes sense and I think anyone listening you shouldn't feel shamed if your sex drive is much lower than what maybe your friend in the room is saying she like masturbates 19 a day great yeah not for you yeah for sure I think it's so amazing that we're moving to this time where we

can talk about it and we can talk about women being empowered in their own sexuality like like you said if you want to fuck 19 guys in one night amazing but if you want to like not that's fine that's great too i think the most important thing is just to like take time to get to know yourself and be in tune with like what you want and what you don't want what you care about what you kind of care about a little bit but it's not a big deal you know you totally when you tried to have a child with hef and you couldn't and at first you didn't know why right well i knew it was because of him like i was healthy but he was just too old and as much as you look back on that now would you say that you're happy that didn't happen yes thank god oh my god it's just like when i was when i had first gotten into that situation

and something happened to my mind that first night I had sex where I felt like okay I did that I like breached my own boundaries and I wasn't comfortable with it now I have to make this situation into something I'd almost like locked myself into this box in a way yeah which wasn't hard to do there because it's a very cult-like atmosphere anyway and you're Yeah. and then when i knew that wasn't going to be a possibility with him like we tried in vitro and everything it didn't work um i was like okay well if i'm not gonna have kids here that's something i need to think about like this is really like a death sentence in a way yeah what what resonated for me and i know a lot of women would be able to relate is like you were in a fully verbally and emotionally abusive relationship uh-huh one thousand percent as I'm reading this book I'm like holy fuck this dude is not toxic he is abusive yeah and I'm assuming that also played you are in a heightened situation

where any relationship that you're in that is verbally and emotionally abusive it is so hard to get out of because you are being fully manipulated and you are and and then in your sense it then is the stockholm syndrome of outside world to you probably look like how am i going to go get a normal job now are people going to accept me because i know you said this in the book it was like i was nervous about like what does life look like outside of the mansion doors and i didn't have a set life plan right away so i was like'm going to just stay here because this is at least safer than me going out. And one of, I forget who it was, but someone left the mansion that had had a centerfold

or something and then like moved back home. Yeah, no, it happened a few months after I moved in. Well, first also another thing that happened is like a week after I moved in, 9-11 happened. And that for people who don't remember, even if you weren't on the East Coast or close to it, it was so scary because all you hear is like oh my god the twin towers have been attacked and then the pentagon's been attacked and the next thing you think is okay what's next like any major city and i just remember having gone from like sleeping on a friend's couch and not knowing what i'm doing the next day to living in this fortress like when 9-11 happened that was another little

moment that kind of made me feel like oh my god I'm safe here and then after a few months after that there was kind of this shift with the group where there was almost a full turnover and the women who moved out I saw what happened to them a lot of them went into escorting and some of them had moved back home which I knew they didn't want to do but like they couldn't make it in LA they couldn't make ends meet and some of them had moved back home, which I knew they didn't want to do, but like they couldn't make it in LA. They couldn't make ends meet. And some of them got banned from ever coming back to the mansion because of the way, the way they were kicked out.

Like say if they were caught cheating on half or whatever, and then it was always like talked about and shamed within the mansion. So moving out to me looked very scary. It doesn't look like there's a lot out there after you're watching girls leave. It it's like I don't want to do that so why why don't I stay here you talk a lot too in the book about like losing your mind a little bit in terms of like feeling like you just got like robotic and you like started to lose yourself and like you were like I feel dumb like I feel dumber like what am I doing like can you explain that yeah I just after being there for a couple years I just started to notice that I developed

a stammer when I tried to speak, which I had never had before. And I just felt like my brain felt slower. Like I was slower to think of certain things and think of. Why do you think you got a stammer? Like, do you think it was because you were. I think it was part of being nervous, part of like partly doubting myself, partly just being in this environment where I was always drinking and like my mind was never stimulated so I started I started like going back

to school while I was there and like studying and things like that and that kind of got me back but just being in an atmosphere where you're only valued for your looks and you're just expected to go out and party all the time and it feels like you were never able to like step out of place like and if you did then you're getting yelled at by him exactly a toxic relationship yeah i was kind of always in fear of either getting like sabotaged by one of the other women i was always afraid of getting kicked out i was always afraid of him yelling at me or embarrassing me in front of people it like when i look back on that time in my life i feel like i was in constant fight or flight the saddest part obviously was when you discuss being suicidal in the mansion yeah and you say that you were at a point where you were an environment that was driving you towards thinking you wanted to take your life and you

went to hef and he basically told you that he didn't want you to go see a psychiatrist because she would they would just tell you leave the mansion yeah um what was that the first time that you were suicidal in your life I dealt with depression before like in high school I'd had it in college I'd had it a little bit and then when I was at the mansion I got to the point where I was having pretty heavy suicidal ideations because I just was so miserable it was before the show had come along so I didn't really feel like I had opportunities or anything that made me feel useful and it was just all this infighting within the women so I felt like there was a hostile world waiting for me outside because I felt like anytime I told anybody like where I lived or what I was doing they reacted pretty negatively or they felt like

they had license to like ask me any kind of explicit questions about my sex life and you had mentioned that to me in our conversation you were like people would feel the need they would come up to me and felt it was okay to say to me like ask me sex questions and it's like today no one would ever ask in an interview the questions that you were asked back then yeah especially in a situation like that because of a situation like that was going on today you might look at those women and be like are you okay but back then it was like oh do you have to fuck him gross why don't you ask a girl that's in her 20s are you okay yeah instead of like yeah judging when he

told you not to get help that obviously was a huge red flag but did you see it as red flag at the time I did see it as a red flag and eventually I he told me to talk to his secretary about it I did and eventually I did go to a psychiatrist but it was one that like his doctor recommended of course of course so and this was right before we started filming the show and he put me on an antidepressant and said that I was having anxiety because the show was going to start shooting and even though the show turned out to be a really good opportunity I remember when we were told that this is what you guys are going to do a part of me was really scared because I've always been pretty private and I had wanted to be in the entertainment industry

in some way that was like kind of what attracted me to Playboy in the first place. But I always thought of it as like being an actress or like hosting a show, something like that. Like back then there wasn't even social media. So I was pretty private. I was scared to like live this life publicly on the show, especially since there was like so much shame involved in it for me. And I was just stressed out because i always felt tricked at the mansion i always felt like to the contracts you had a contract with the girls next door starts blowing up we're going all the way back to the mia episode yet again it's like

what is with girls getting handed contracts and you have two seconds to sign it and you're threatening them and pretty sure that's literally illegal and they said to you like you have to sign it now and then there was also speculation that Kendra wasn't there to sign it and they like forged her signature yeah I don't know for a fact if that's what happened but I remember hearing all the talk in the office about it like oh Kendra's not here this weekend but we have to get this signed and I don't know like if she actually signed it like maybe shera's not here this weekend but we have to get this signed and I don't know like if she actually signed it like maybe she thinks she did like maybe they handed her a paper like the day she got back but and maybe they were lying to Bridget and I and saying oh we need the

papers this day and you guys have to sign it maybe they didn't really need it that day I don't know but in my opinion we signed those contracts under duress because it was like the three of us as far as i know each had a reason for not wanting to sign it was like no you have to sign it or there's not going to be a show and you know what what you like you live here you have to do it when we first started filming they didn't even pay us they just like expected to do us to do it they didn't pay us they also didn't inform us when the nudity was going to be unblurred because we were filming this with the full expectation that everything was going to be unblurred because we were filming this with the full expectation that everything was going to be blurred because you can't show nudity on cable tv

at that time yeah and you know for people who might not understand if they've never posed nude or anything you might think well if you pose nude why would you care if there was like a naked video out there but there's just different levels for everybody you know some people you know if you're mormon you wear a garment under your suit all the time because that's what you're comfortable with. Some people feel comfortable changing in a spa locker room in front of other women, but they would never pose nude. Some people feel comfortable posing nude, but they wouldn't want like a video of them walking around naked broadcast around the world. Absolutely. So when we're doing this show and we're filming like our nude pictorials, which is in front of like the Playboy crew and like they do this for a living they don't care we're comfortable being naked in front of them

but we had the expectation that any video of us would be blurred and wouldn't be shown and somewhere in the middle of the first season they decided to take the blurring away because hef would always screen the show the night it came out like after the sunday movie right so when he showed one of the episodes all of a sudden like halfway through one of the seasons the nudity wasn't blurred and we're like oh okay all right but they never told us that and you're not making fucking money no so it's like how fucking wrong yeah they just thought that because we lived there that you know they just owned us and we were always told we were replaceable. And eventually, of course, we got paid for it. And then when the contracts came along, I don't remember what season we signed the contracts. It was like midway through the whole thing. And Bridget didn't want to sign it right away because she wanted her lawyer to look at it, which is totally reasonable. I think Kendra was gone and I think wanted her manager to look at it, which is totally reasonable. I didn't want to sign it because I felt like it was creepy because I felt like I was signing a contract to be in a relationship, basically.

And I told Hef that and he goes, oh, that's sweet. Yeah, but you need to sign it because, you know, we need it today or like he isn't going to order the show. And I just don't really believe a network would operate that way. So I think they were lying lying but it was creepy so that was a full that was another example on a large of one of the largest scales of like you fully getting manipulated yet again yeah this man and taking and fully taking advantage of the fact that your content is out there and you're nude and you did not sign off on it and you're not getting paid for it manipulative yeah for sure like not okay yeah um once girls next door ends and you you had said too which is interesting like once the other girls were gonna leave and it's interesting to go back

to what you said you were like i thought maybe it would be better with just me there like i thought maybe my relationship with hef would be better then when you realized you couldn't have kids then kendra and um bridget are moving along you decide to end the relationship with half yeah and is there something you remember like in a day randomly being like i see the light i want to leave because like you're leaving a toxic relationship an abusive relationship most girls it's like they never get to that point to be able to see it there's no one also like pulling you out of it holly there's no like like family member be like, Holly, we're coming to get you a pack of your stuff. You're going to have to pack up your suitcase by yourself and walk out the doors back to your old car and like leave. How did you get to that point ready to leave?

It was over the course of a few months because I had a lot of guilt. I felt like I'd made a commitment to be with him. I mean, it's laughable thinking back, but I felt like I had made a commitment to be with him. I mean, laughable thinking back, but I felt like I had made a commitment to be with him. And we talked about, you know, being together for the rest of his life. And I, so I felt a little bit guilty about leaving, but you know, when I realized I wasn't going to be able to have kids with him, that was a big thing. And not just that, but also the fact that I was sad about it when that was the outcome and my depression was coming back and he would go and ask Bridget why I was depressed but like he wouldn't ask me and Bridget was like I

don't know I think you need to go talk to Holly and like he wouldn't come talk to me about it was just really weird so it was that and also the fact that over the years I'd been living there I had been like making excuses in my mind for this whole relationship. And I always thought that the other women were the problem. And if they were gone, and if I didn't have to deal with any of that bullshit, then I could be happy. But as everybody was leaving, and I started to realize, okay, it's just me and half. He started lashing out at me more. And I'm not really sure why that was. I don't know if he was just like stressed because like, the scenes maybe things weren't going great financially which I didn't know at the time but after I left I know things weren't

so great financially for him so maybe he had some stress or maybe he just didn't have the games of like pitting the three of us against each other anymore since Bridget and Kendra were moving out but he started lashing out at me more for like really stupid things and i just realized like i can't be here like this guy is an asshole like i can't stay here right but still even still i felt guilty leaving so it took time and it took me actually being like interested in another man before i finally was like okay i have to pull the plug so i'm not gonna cheat so it's crazy that you say you felt guilty yeah isn't that weird like it just goes along with like all the love bombing stuff and like the we're gonna be together forever and you're gonna be with me for the rest of my life and blah blah blah like he would compare me to bell and beauty and the beast like i just came

along to this cat it's so silly he would compare you to bell yeah dude this guy it's so sad because now that you've had time to step away from it like i obviously reading your book it was clear that he is well he's full he was i'm sorry he was fully a sex addict yeah like had to have been um you don't have to comment on this but like fully like maybe weirdo pedophile shit going on like yeah he the amount of things that you were adding up together of one the fact that he had your childhood photo near his bed was would be cute maybe for a boyfriend but the amount that you were also explaining of like he was so fascinated with young young women yeah like he was very careful about like what was legal as far as being with anybody over 18. But there were just little clues I picked up on over the years that were just kind of gross.

Like nothing overt, nothing to the point where. Girl and dog porn, Holly? Yeah. No, I found, I found this weird old reel because I, his room used to be just like this hell hole of like stacks and stacks of videotapes. He was like a hoarder. Yeah. And I was like, I'm going to clean this room up. I was like, I'm going to get just like this hellhole of like stacks and stacks of videotapes he was like a hoarder yeah and i was like i'm gonna clean this room up i was like i'm gonna get rid of the tapes yeah so i'm cleaning the room up and like i opened this one drawer and there's this old like film reel and it said girl and dog and it was in the porn section and i'm just like

that is so disturbing yeah was there anything that he ever did like kinky wise that you were like, what the fuck? No, because the sex was pretty like as not basic as it was. It was basic in that it was kind of the same every time. But he always like had a fixation on everyone like always being fully shaved. Okay. Yeah. And he always liked like vaginas to look a certain way like what like the like nothing sticking out okay like innies not outies yeah and i i don't know i just i just feel like his

obsession with like young women was semi-gross oh okay because it was like a little girl's yeah how did you know that would he say that to the girls? Yeah, no, he would, like, get mad if somebody wasn't shaved or, like, you know. Just make comments. Yeah. And, like, maybe the girl with the Audi wasn't invited back. That, was the sex him literally always just being missionary? I'm, like, picturing this old man just, like, what, how was he having sex? No, he was, for the most part, like, it wasn't this way the first time I was there.

But, like, he was on top the first time. But he was always laying down every other time that I remember. Oh, and so you guys would have to get on top. Yeah. Okay, so this man is now not only pleasuring you guys, but he's, like, laying there and you guys have to do the work. Yeah. God. Well, he was so selfish.

I have to ask, just because Daddy Gang is like, what was his dick like? Do you have a big dick i have to ask just because daddy gang is like what was his dick like do you have a big dick it was just like normal yeah there was nothing like and he always had to take viagra yeah for having faked it because i'm assuming did you ever have an orgasm with him i mean i was too messed up I think. Right you okay so you go through all this at mansion you finally leave. The ironic thing is when I left the mansion I got sucked into another relationship that was really bad even though I knew when I was getting out of the mansion I was like okay I'm not gonna move in with this guy I'm gonna

like have my own place in my own life like I was so ready mentally to be independent but it was another like love bombing relationship where it was like no you need to move in with me like this is gonna happen you need to move in with me blah blah blah and I just fell into that and I think it was easier for me to fall into that because this was a guy who was 10 years older than me but still much closer to my age than Hef was and seems like somebody you know oh and he was like hot at the time yeah i remember watching his show i don't even remember what it was on but i thought like chris chris angel whatever is he he's still doing his shit i don't know but i remember him being like the hottest thing and

then you two were like an it couple at the time did you have because that's crazy to go from a toxic relationship and then you get right into and it was like overlapped like right as you're leaving you meet him you get out of the mansion and then you go right back into a toxic relationship how long did that relationship last not very long it was only like four to six months okay and then you were like you put a halt to it yeah like what the fuck is going on i'm repeating patterns you may look a little bit different yeah it's the same situation yeah i really feel like that was sent to me by the universe to just be like this final like dot on the eye just to be like okay you need to never like get into a relationship like this again because i was given um a different version of the half relationship just without with a younger

person and without like the whole cult right culty type scenario around it as you've grown up now and like you look back on these years do you find something that you feel like you could help someone listening that feels like they keep getting into toxic relationships like what was it initially about these people that drew you to them and then what like how do you feel like you kept getting how did you go from half to that immediately? Like, was it familiar to you that you thought you're, did you have in mind, like, I'm going to try something different, but you went right to the same thing? Or were you not thinking that, like, make sure I go to something different. I definitely thought I was doing something different. I thought this, I thought this guy was going to be like the polar opposite because he was younger and I just, and he didn't have the same type of lifestyle and I mean what to

watch out for is like love bombing yeah of course and back then like love bombing I don't even think that term had been coined like nobody talked about it so when a guy is talking about wanting to get married on your first date like yeah you're kind of laughing like haha stupid and you'll like tell one friend about it like it's funny but then you kind of want to believe it so I'm I would definitely like not take people too seriously if they're like laying it on too strong in the very beginning because do you even want somebody who like wants to like marry you without even knowing you like that's creepy that's a really good point yeah and and just like wanting like pressure to move in together too soon is a really bad sign. And sometimes I feel like I don't even see the true colors of these people until they have you in a position where you're dependent on them in some way.

Like after you've been pressured to quit your job and after your valuables are in his safe and after, you know, he's pressured you to stop meeting up with your friends and things like that then the real side comes out so those are definitely it's warning signs the isolation I'm hearing too of like I know I have had friends that have gotten into because I've been in toxic but like I've never well no I did start to isolate myself from my family a little bit and stop telling them maybe some of the bad things he was doing because I was like but what if like things get better and then like I don't want to throw him under the bus to my mom because you know when you tell your mom something exactly over and then all of a sudden you look around and the only person that you have is him and that's the dependency factor where it's like I isolated myself from my friends my family my job and now I have him and then that is like what

they want but you have to continue to make sure that the there are other people around you that can be objective when it comes to you and that relationship like you should be able to talk to your friends about your relationship and if you can't why yeah most of the time it's not just because they're judgy friends yeah and they are there's a few but like most of the time it's like well why can't you talk about your relationship exactly up yeah is it embarrassing to you right and I think it's interesting what you said about how you always thought it was going to get better because when my book first came out I would so often get criticism like well if you didn't like it why didn't you leave and I think when people don't

leave relationships like that a big part of it other than just feeling isolated and feeling like you don't have resources is there's a part of you that really truly believes it's going to get better and that's not to say like a bad relationship can't ever get better but it definitely clouds your judgment for sure like you think it's going to get better you think this was the last fight and oh my god they're so much nicer now and I just think you really need to be vigilant about looking out for the red flags like somebody who wants you to move in too quickly or somebody who wants you to like hand over your valuables or like stop hanging out with your friends it's crazy you say this too because i have someone in my life right now that it's been almost it's been a few years now of they're in a toxic relationship and you have to be so if anyone's listening that you were like my friend

is in one the advice i could give is like when people say to you how like why didn't she just leave that is the dumbest fucking question i have ever heard you clearly don't understand how humans mind work like you were in a situation that was so fucked that to get out of something like that it takes at times years and i'm looking at someone right now in an unhealthy relationship with their partner and she is somewhat starting to see it but you also have to as a friend if you shit on that person's relationship so much they will fully pull away from you so it's a hard balance of trying to make sure you're supportive and you're there for the person but slowly when they're listening and they're shitting on the person maybe that like they're coming to you and finally opening up to you like, hey, I'm not really comfortable.

Instead of being like, you got to leave them. Sometimes it just starts with listening and being there for support. And you don't have to provide a solution. I always joke to my boyfriend. I'm like, you always think I'm coming to you and I need a solution. I really just need you to listen. Yeah, exactly. Most of the time, if someone's in a toxic relationship, the start of them having any

strength, the fact that they're even talking to you about it is step one sit there and listen because that's what i've been doing and then finally i feel like i'm in phase two with two with this person where she's finally kind of being like looking at like what would life look like without him and how do i even actualize that and slowly i've started to try to help her like well this is maybe like what you could do or like have you thought about living on your own and like you don't even have to fully break up like what about like living on your own it's like well no he he wants me to live with him i'm like well maybe that's something to think about like you just have to slowly go through those parts with them and not force them to leave

because like holly's saying how the fuck would you know where to go what to do you were terrified and you were also being verbally and mentally abused so it's like it's not as easy as just leave. No, it's not. Yeah, exactly. Especially when you're in like a city that you are having trouble making it in for a while and it's expensive. And and I think, too, like if you have a friend in a situation like that, just for that person to know that somebody is out there willing to listen and not judge is so helpful because

I was so scared to talk to anybody for so long because I was just scared of being judged. Like, ew, why did you sleep with that guy? You know? And instead it's like just be open and accepting of whatever they're coming to you with because that's half the time all someone needs. Yeah, absolutely. You are a boss ass bitch. And when you leave the mansion, you go dancing with the stars. You start. I mean, the peep show gave me chills because watching you be headlining a show that was supposed to have people like rotating in as the main. And then Holly comes in and gets a show in Vegas and knocks it out of the fucking park.

You are. I loved. Oh, and you did an interview, too. And someone said, like, because at the time who you were married to, they're like, oh, yeah, in his bank account. And you're like, I was doing well before I was married also. Yeah. Fuck you for a little bit there. Yeah.

And I think it's so great just having like the experiences I had when I was married. Like my husband was very, very generous, but we never really like merged finances. Like we always had a prenup that like kept everything separate. And even now, like I don't accept alimony from him or anything and like we're just co-parenting and everything's good and I think it's good advice for anybody moving forward it's just always keep your own thing going and just always keep your own finances good and that's huge yeah it's crazy I think as a lot of people don't talk about that and I think that's a good topic holly of like you having had

been married had your own success you go you get this amazing gig in vegas you are like the woman of vegas you're killing it like you have you are so talented you can't just headline a show and it just be like oh but it's just because she was hugh hefner's girlfriend nope fuck off you are so talented you killed it you did Dancing with the Stars. You were making your own money to then go. Like, it's so fascinating to me. I always thought joking when I was younger, like whenever people are like, oh, prenups. I'm like, oh, my gosh.

When you're younger, you're like, oh, my God. If he says he wants a prenup, he doesn't love you. Meanwhile, I'm like, oh, whoever I fucking marry, prenup. Exactly. I don't even understand why this day and age people even their finances and earnings get merged when they're married I don't understand that's a good point like if you want to make a deal with your significant other and you're like okay since you're spending so much time raising the kids I'm gonna make sure you get this like that should be talked about separately it shouldn't be

I just don't believe people should get married and automatically everything's merged I think that's fucked up I agree and also not that I'm a pessimist here but 50% of marriages end in divorce so it's like not that you're planning for it to end but like be smart and I especially to all the girls listening like I agree I've had so many friends parents that got divorced and the mom back then because back then it was like women weren't usually working and it's like they don't have anything they were like oh i didn't have a bank account to myself and it's like make sure you are good on your own yeah for sure don't rely on someone else because you never fucking know what's about to happen and now you're sitting here like i don't i mean i don't need alimony we're co-parenting i'm good i have my own shit i worked my ass off to get where i am and now you're sitting here with me and i'm like, I'm in shock that you're here. But like, it's amazing your journey of

saying you were suicidal in the mansion, you were getting abused and mentally, physically, all the things are just like down in the dumps. And now you're sitting here and you're like, oh, I am a boss ass bitch. I did all this. You can go through hardships in life and then you can rise from the motherfucking ashes. Absolutely. Like, I think you can take almost anything you've gone through and turn it into something positive and I think that's part of you know what I was holding on to when I was there and just hoping things would get better I'm like I have to turn this into something like I don't want to look back on this and think oh that was that shitty night where I felt you know used and chewed up and spit out like I want to right thrive yeah like I said you not only survived but you thrived

your book now having had come out when you look back on writing it the I had said to you obviously there was some shade getting thrown from both you Kendra everyone yeah do you feel like now you still stand by everything you said in the book or is there anything different that you feel or are you kind of still on the same page oh no I'm 100% still on the same page I just there's one tiny little nitpicky thing like I think I commented a lot about on other women's like plastic surgery at the mansion not naming names or anything but I would say oh this person had so much filler in her face she looked old and it wasn't like I'm even trying to tear her down. I was more trying to make a commentary on how toxic everybody's like dysmorphia and

body issues and the competition were there. And now plastic surgery is so much more common. But 15 years ago, it really wasn't. So when I stepped into the mansion and I'm hanging out in one of the girls rooms and she's like pinching her stomach and saying, oh, I need to get lipo. And then she picks up the phone and orders chocolate cake for breakfast. It was just like a whole new world. I was just like, wait, what is happening here? It was just like plastic surgery was so common. So I think I would like word that different because going back, I kind of look at it

and I'm like, Oh, it sounds like I'm being catty or mean. And that like, wasn't the point. It was more like, I'm just trying to comment and I've had plastic surgery. I don't care. I don't think there's anything wrong with it, but no, everything in in my book I still feel like the same way about and I I kind of I I agree with you in the sense that I'm also sure what you were trying to point out was when you first got there you had had your boobs done but you weren't fully morphed into the girl next door that you see on the show yeah and so like you said your hair was in a certain way your face didn't look a certain way you weren't doing your makeup a certain way so when you got there you're looking at these women and you were almost observing like oh wow i don't look

anything like them other than that i have blonde hair and like big boobs yeah and like then you slowly started to make decisions because you realize hef liked a certain like you said he liked the girl to be tan, have the most platinum hair. And then you started to go into that. But I agree with you. I loved what you said about plastic surgery in your interview on E! where you said you use it as like, you're like, your looks are like a tool. Yeah, it's not who you are on the inside. So I think people get so mad when they see other people get plastic surgery like they're cheating at life or something and it's like looks aren't even that deep right like calm down like I want to look a certain way at this point in my life almost as like a hobby it's just like the

aesthetic I like like it's just like a tool you know to get through like it's not who you are yeah and I think we would be looks you can you can put them at in a caliber of they matter or they don't matter however you want to look at it if you care about your appearance i said this with mia off camera we were talking about why do why does no one shit on a guy if he has a six-pack abs but if girls are trying to make sure they look great why are girls getting shamed if they want to get plastic surgery they want to work out and get that six-pack like we never comment on men and their bodies but women it's so fixated like why is she getting plastic surgery because i want to yeah because i want to look great because i think i'll look great and you don't have to get a boob job you don't have to get any plastic surgery but i want to and you're saying like

you use it as a tool especially in the field you're in you're like i'm thriving and looks in your field matters yeah it's like why not play up that but also it has nothing to do with who you are inside and what else you have to offer and your brain yeah exactly that's they're completely separate so I think the shaming of I agree with you I'm kind of really happy that there has been a turn in society recently that women are feeling more open to be able to talk about any type of plastic surgery and it's not because it used to be shamed yeah and i'm hoping everyone listening is not shaming people for doing whatever they it's your body you can do whatever the fuck you want to it um do you have a relationship with

kendra at all now no okay and you have a relationship with bridget yeah yeah bridget and i have always been close we've always been She always seems like the sweetest. Yeah, she is. In the world. Do you look back and regret anything you did on Girls Next Door? Um, I mean, when I look back at Girls Next Door, especially the first few seasons, I see myself just coping. Like I was really stiff and not open and just like a robot and just saying the type of things that I felt like Hef would want me to say and things that made him look good. And I almost can't really regret that because I don't know how else I would have coped. Like now, you know, in front of the camera for anything, I'm just myself and I'm more open. And in a way, I'd love to look back and be like, oh, I would have loved to have been

myself more. But I mean, I couldn't have. There's no way I couldn't have said what I was really thinking or feeling like I would have been like it would have been cut. It wouldn't have it wouldn't have made it to the airways but yeah I was just super guarded I was just super nervous about just putting my private life out into the public which I think a lot of people would be yeah not a lot of people like sit in front of microphones like we're doing right now casually chat about the men that they've slept

with like it's not that normal to a lot of people yeah um has that was one of my only last questions was like I remember I think you said on zoom it's interesting you had said has the relationship you had with have affected your male relationships past that moving forward like are men super insecure do they not care do they think it's cool like what is their relationship to that um some have been really insecure like some have just like raked me over the coals for it and just wanted to like ask a million questions about the sex and every little detail and at that point this was like before I wrote my book so I hadn't even like gone back and processed it myself at all so it was like traumatic for me to relive it through them

like being angry and attacking me for it and attacking me for it as if it was something I had done while I was in a relationship with them so some guys are just super insecure and can't deal and I remember a lot of men yeah and I remember that now like if I'm in a relationship and I want to ask my boyfriend about an ex I always take a step back and I'm like, okay, like where am I being jealous? And am I asking him about some crazy person he doesn't even want to remember? Because I know what it feels like on the other side. I know what it feels like to be like attacked from a jealous angle. It sucks.

What is next for you? Like, what are, are you just enjoying being a mom? Like, what are you working on? Like what, what's up? I am enjoying being a mom. I have a couple of TV projects that are coming out later this year which i i'm the annoying guest who's like i have a really exciting project but i can't tell you anything about it i love it but secret project yeah there's a couple there's a couple cool things they're both for tv and it's just one one is really confidential that i just participated in it's not like my thing and the

other thing is more my thing. But I have to wait for the network to talk about it. Okay. I want to see Holly Madison back on TV. I want to go rewatch Girls Next Door, then read the book again, then listen to this episode again. And then by that time, hopefully, whatever your secret project is, I'm giving you beaming eyes. Hopefully, we can watch you somewhere because you are not only are you entertaining but you are now at a point where I think I know so many women look up to you Holly and I am so fortunate to have you sitting on this couch with me and having this

interview thanks for having me I'm so excited to do it thank you daddy gang that is it for this week's episode I am honored to have been able to sit down with Holly I honestly can't believe it the show it's so fucking cool to be able to have this ability to not only have amazing conversations with people but also selfishly meet some of my childhood idols I think the first one that I was like shitting my fucking pants no shit obviously was Miley Cyrus and then being able now to sit down with Holly Madison I'm like it literally doesn't get better than this I hope you guys loved hearing the conversations that we had today make sure you guys DM Holly go show her love next week motherfuckers I'm not gonna promise yet because I'm in the talks of it but there is potentially a man that has never come on call her daddy before coming on next week okay it's not official yet I don't want you guys to chop off my head if it doesn't happen but I'm almost I would say 95%

sure this man is coming on and the drama that is fucking coming your ways and the shit. You're probably going to give me shit for having this human being on the show. I don't care. I promise you there's a reason and a rhyme to why I want to have this man on the show. So daddy gang, you know the motherfucking drill. I will see you fuckers next Wednesday.