Call Her Daddy - Aly & AJ: Disney & Dating Disasters

Episode Date: January 8, 2025

Join Alex in the studio for an interview with Aly and AJ! Aly and AJ reminisce on their iconic Disney Channel days, touring with the Jonas Brothers, and what it was like dating at the network. They also discuss their sister dynamic, judging each others’ partners, their most brutal breakups, and their advice about cheating, losing friends, and getting caught talking shit. Enjoy!

What is up, daddy gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy. Ali and AJ, welcome to Call Her Daddy. Thank you. You guys, the last time we saw each other was we were hanging out backstage at my tour and you were the loveliest people. And I always have these moments because I'm like, I watched you guys growing up, obviously I love you guys, your music, all of it, but meeting you guys in person was so fun to be like, oh my God, you guys are like normal girls and we're all just hanging out.

So I'm so happy we're finally doing this. Same, same. So happy to be here. It was nice to be here. So happy to be here. Okay, if you guys are not like touring, if you're not working, if you don't have all the chaos of your life,

what is your most fun thing that you guys usually like to do together? We're big like spa people. And we kind of have been since we were young. Like we were like hanging out in a spa at like 10 and 12. And we were just loving it. And our parents would be like, I don't know. They just like love hot dry saunas and getting massages.

Oh, I love this for you guys. So spa. So spa. Spa. Go to the spa. If you have a day off, you go to the spaages. Oh, I love this for you guys. So like spa, so spa. Spa, yeah. Go into the spa. If you have a day off, you go into the spa too. Yeah, that's our number one. That's our number one.

That or like, I mean, literally it's like a movie, like just on AJ's couch, just like ordering in. How like often do you guys hang out? All the time. Yeah, all the time. Like every day? Well, no, because now that she's a mom. We used to, used to be, yeah, because now that she's a mom.

So now that she's a mom, it's not every day. And also, we don't live down the street from each other. We literally used to live. I'm not even kidding you. Like me in my car driving to AJ's for a minute. I could walk to her house in like 20. How far now? Now I'm like an hour and a half.

What? Yeah, I know. What happened? Well, I had a kid. She's like, bye. Bye, AJ. Well, really, we kid. She's like, bye, bye AJ. She's like, bye, bye AJ. Well, really we moved for like, to be closer to my mom. My mom lives out in San Ynez.

So we were like, okay, if we're closer to her, that will help with, you know, just like childcare or whatever. And then having more space, cause the house that we live in, that we lived in in the canyon that we ended up renting out is like a super cool pad, but it's more like,

it's for a couple, it's not really for a kid. So we ended up renting a place that just had more space. So we kind of were just like, we'll see. It's only an hour and a half, it's not that far. Every weekend. But would you ever move? I love Santa Barbara. Okay, you're happy in Santa Barbara.

I'd move there in a second. Okay, okay, okay. That makes me feel good. I really would, I'm not ready yet. I really love Barbara. Okay, you're happy in Santa Barbara. I'd move there in a second. Okay, okay, okay. That makes me feel good. I really would. I'm not ready yet. I really love where I am. But I think down the road I would. I absolutely would.

And I think it's a beautiful place to raise a son. Do you guys play the typical older younger sister roles? Do you feel like, or is there anything that you're like, I don't act like a younger sister and older sister in this way? I think they were swapped when we were younger. Oh really?

Yeah, that's a good point. I was very much kind of younger sister and she was like older sister is weird. And then it switched. Why? We always joke how when I was young, I was very shy. Really shy. And I would have her just kind of, you were like my translator. Yes.

She would like nudge me. It's like, and I'd be like, she wants a turkey sub, cheese and no mustard. No mustard. You know, whatever. And it was like, she knew. She like knew. It was very strange. Oh my God. You got, whatever. Like literally I would speak for her. She knew, she like knew. It was very strange. Oh my God.

You got out of that though. I got out of it. And then I think it swapped to being like, okay, now I have something for sister. You don't translate for me, but yeah. No, no, you're like, girl, you never did. Never. But I think what's interesting is like,

obviously you guys then like at a pretty young age got into the spotlight. So like you don't think that a kid would be shy that then gets into this industry. When Disney entered the conversation, were your parents at all like, this is like too much? They ever try to talk you guys out of it? No, at that point we were fully in,

like a sad card in hand, doing commercials. You, not me. Cause I got my sad card. Oh, you first did, was still the future. Yeah, yeah. So like I didn't even have, I mean, I knew the basics of like, this is a mark and stuff,

but I learned like everything on that set. Oh my God, wait, your first gig was filled with the future? Yeah, that was like how I got my sad card. That's like kind of the biggest flex ever. Wait, what? Yeah, it's funny, yeah. When you guys, like I obviously was thinking before I like sat down with you,

I'm like when you look back at that era, you think about like, you think about you guys, you think about Demi, you think about Miley, you think about like, you think about you guys, you think about Demi, you think about Miley, you think about Selena, you think about the Jonas Brothers. Like when you were in the era that you were in, because it shaped so much of our childhood, I feel like, did you guys realize it was that iconic in the moment or did it literally just feel like work?

I think once Calabas hit, we knew. Yeah, and I feel like when the music started happening on the channel and that was happening simultaneously with Phil, I think that's when we were like, oh, this is really like clicking with people. And I do remember going to, I don't know, I think, were we with Hollywood Records at the time? I don't know, I don't think so.

Why did they sign us season two of the show? It was season two, but I think season one of Fill the Future had been out. So no, we weren't signed yet with Hollywood. But for whatever reason, we were invited to Hilary Duff's concert at I think the forum or something. Oh my God. And I think you were with me.

Yeah. And I got mobbed at this concert and I was like. Yeah, cause season one it aired and you were like. It was weird. It was like the first real time I remember being like, oh, like people know me from this show. And then it was just, you know, after that, it was still very, we had a very normal life,

but I just remember being like, oh, people are stopping me because of this TV show. Oh my God, I have Hillary Duff concert. Like take me back. Oh my God. Cause I was gonna ask like how your life changed with Fill the Future. Cause I feel like that was a very, very, very big moment.

And I feel like some shows popped, some shows didn't. That one, I feel like I watched every freaking episode and it was so good. It's funny, thank you. It was cute. It did pop, but we only did two seasons, which people kind of forget. Wait, what?

Yes, that's it. That's it. I know, it's a travesty. And then it got canceled. Wait, but how many episodes were in a season? 22, I think. Okay, that's also so different. These days it's like six episodes. That's 10, yeah, yeah, that's a good point. Wait, but how many episodes were in a season? 22, I think. Okay, that's also so different. Like these days it's like six episodes.

Yeah, yeah, that's a good part. Yeah. Okay, but 20? That's still a lot of episodes. Yeah, so it was only two. ["Darlin' by The Bachelorette"] Is this the unwell water? No, that's water. That's real water.

You can, this is unwell drink. Yeah, yeah, you can try it. Okay, I'm trying it. Give it a go. It's good. It's yummy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's yummy. It's basically like a better ideally version

of like Pedialyte and Gatorade. Like less sugar. It's good, right? It's not sweet. It's not, oh my God. I did so many. You don't have to tone it down with water. Like Gatorade you have to add water.

The mango was my, oh, in college when I would play soccer, I would have to literally dilute it. Oh, to dilute it, yeah. And I would do like half Gatorade, half water. My favorite currently is the mango that you're currently holding. And this one is what? Orange hibiscus. Orange hibiscus.

Oh, that is good. It's good, right? And then this is the strawberry. I think the mango is maybe. The mango is the best. It's my favorite. What is your favorite? What is your favorite? What is your favorite? What is your favorite? What is your favorite? What is your favorite? What is your favorite?

What is your favorite? What is your favorite? What is your favorite? What is your favorite? What is your favorite? What is your favorite? What is your favorite? What is your favorite?

What is your favorite? What is your favorite? What is your favorite? What is your favorite? What is your favorite? What is your favorite? What is your favorite? What is your favorite?

What is your favorite? What is your favorite? What is your favorite? What is your favorite? What is your favorite? What is your favorite? What is your favorite? What is your favorite? What is your favorite? and I'm like, you were so young and you guys looked like you were at the top of the world, but like when you look back financially, did you feel like as kids you were compensated correctly? I don't know if that's like a fair thing to say. That's interesting. I don't think we would have known anything to compare it to.

Yeah, I don't think- I think it's crazy when you have a job that young. Of course. You know what I mean? And in a strange way, like any money that you're making. Of course. Seems like great. But when you look back now. But like I know what I mean? You're like what? And in a strange way, any money that you're making seems like great. But I made like $7,000 per episode on Philip Future. That ain't nothing.

Like do you know what I mean? Yeah, that is interesting. Cause when you look back. I don't know what that would equate to today, but like. True. But I guess for a kids show, you're kind of like, that's great, that could go into their college fund. And how did you guys handle it with your parents?

Cause obviously I remember we were standing in the hallway of my tour. And how did you guys handle it with your parents? Because obviously I remember we were standing in the hallway of my tour and I looked at you guys and I was like, how did you guys just stay so normal? And you guys are like so lovely. I feel like you guys are like my girlfriends from back home and the unfortunate side of the industry, I feel like we've all seen is like so many of these kids, whether it was like the parents were abusing the power

and taking his money, the parents were forcing the kids. We saw it all the time. The parents didn't help these kids, whether it was like the parents were abusing the power and taking money, the parents were forcing the kids. We saw it all the time. The parents didn't help the kids, so they were just kind of by themselves on set. They're just like dropped off and left with the teacher. Right? What attributed to you guys staying so grounded throughout this whole process?

Well, I can tell you, we weren't the boss of our household. That's for sure. Just because we were working did not put us at the top. We were the kids. And then second, our parents were very, very clear about like, yeah, you can go to this event, you can promote this project, but like you're not gonna go to like some late after party

with a bunch of adults when you guys are underage. Like, I just feel like when you're younger, you can kind of get away if you're in the industry, but just rolling into every situation. And you're like a little mini adult, even though you really shouldn't be. It's not really the time and place for that time in your life.

Like you just shouldn't be at those kinds of things at that age. Like, you know what I mean? Yeah. I feel like our parents were very, they were pretty strict. And like our mom was on set with us. Like, if she needed to be somewhere for you

and I was like on set, she would be gone to like get you to the audition and then would be like straight back on set, you know? I feel like that's like the biggest key that when kids come out now, it's like there's this like missing element, which was kind of like the parental figures. Yes.

And like to give the parental opportunity to people that weren't the actual parents. Totally. They are just looking at these kids like they're cash cows and really your own parent hopefully would be the one to be like, no, no, no, I need to have some guidelines for my kids. Is it true that you were going to possibly be Hannah Montana? I mean, yeah.

I mean, it's funny. She had the offer. I had the offer and it was, Phil hadn't ended at that point. It was like they knew that Phil I think was on the way out or told us like, you know, we might not be doing a third season. And Gary, who, you know, was the head of the channel, Gary Marsh at the time.

And Rich. Yeah, was like, this pilot has come in and we think that you're really perfect for it. And I just remember reading it and being like, wait, but I'm doing music as Allie and this might be really confusing being Hannah and being the character also playing Hannah. There's like three versions.

There would be three of you. It would be very confusing. And I was like, how does AJ relate to this? And then they literally said, well then AJ could play the best friend part. Lily. Lily. I think, yeah. So they were like, why don't you have, and I was like play the best friend part. Lily. Lily. I think, yeah. So they were like, why don't you have,

and I was like, but it feels like it's my show. It's not really like the Hannah and Lily show. And I think at that point too, I was probably like close to being maybe 17 at that point, which is funny too, cause like we weren't on the channel for that long. Like I booked Phil at 13, and then by the time it was over, I was like, you know, whatever, 16 and a half or something.

So I was like almost 17, I think when that was offered. And I just remember thinking like, I've kind of done what I wanted to do here on the channel. You know what I mean? In a way. We had done cowbells. The music had aired a lot on Disney Channel. Cowbells.

I guess cowbells we were just starting to like dive into because that came out when you were meant to air. Exactly, yeah, I did, you're right. I mean, obviously like that was meant to be for Miley, but that's so interesting how like those pivotal moments, obviously like everyone was kind of up for certain roles that like it would have looked so different with you guys in that position versus her, obviously.

Okay, is it true, AJ, that you had your first kiss with JoJo-ness? Yes, that is true. And a bowling alley. Now you bring up all the old stuff. I know, I'm like, of course. We gotta go through it, we gotta go through it. In a bowling alley, it was so innocent.

Sweet, a bowling alley. It was sweet. That's so cute, and did you guys date for a long time? We dated for a while. I don't, I mean for like a young relationship, like over a year is pretty good. That's pretty solid. That's a really long time.

I feel like I was so curious, like all of you guys were on such like different shows, but like this was kind of your high school experience. Yeah. So like, how did you guys all hang out and like meet on different shows? Like what was the social dynamic like? Well, we met on tour.

So the Jonas Brothers opened for us. And that's when we started, like, there was like a spark and I was like, oh, this would be fun. Like we started dating on that. And then they were kind of trying to make like something happen with like me and Kevin. And I was like, it's not really vibing. And then, I mean, bless, but like,

and then it was like, no, maybe you can like date the bass player, Greg. And I was like, no, it's still not vibing. And I mean, like, again, bless him too, but, but it just wasn't, I was like, no, maybe you can like date the bass player, Greg. And I was like, no, it's still not vibing. And I mean, like, again, bless him too. But it just wasn't, I was like, no. You can't like force them. You can't force it. It was like natural that her and Joe had a connection.

It was a natural thing. But we were all buddies. Of course. We were, and it was a really fun tour. But I think beyond that, so like for me, it's like we were homeschooled our whole lives. We didn't experience school dances. But instead we had tour, like at a really young age. Like to me, it's like, we were homeschooled our whole lives. We didn't experience school dances. But instead we had tour, like at a really young age.

Like to me, I wouldn't trade any of it. Cause I'm like, our experiences on the road were so cool. And it's actually why I love touring as an adult. Cause I think it was ingrained in me at a young age that it was a really cool opportunity to have this moment to connect with your fans every night on stage. It's not jargony to like go on the road. And I love it.

It's very natural for us. I think some people dive in as an adult and they're like, I don't want to be on the road. And we're like, we love it, bring it on. Bro, you're like, this is all we ever know. Yeah. Yeah, it's weird. So anyway, I wouldn't, yeah, there's nothing I would really trade.

I just wanted to finish that up. No, no, that's an amazing answer. Okay, did you secretly date your Phil of the Future co-star for six years? No. What? Who said that? That's funny. Is this like a thing online? Wait, rumors online that you secretly dated

Phil of the Future co-star for six years. Literally, can a test never even kissed? You guys didn't even. No, no. It was always a friendship. Although I remember like- He's also older than you. Well, and in that age range felt huge.

Like I was 13 and I think he was 16. I think- Oh, and that is huge. That's a big gap at that age. But I remember during the test, like when I tested for Phil of the future and I saw that he was the other boy that was up for it, I was like, he's really cute.

And then of course you meet them and then you're like, oh, now we're just buddies. We actually became really good friends with his girlfriend during that show. Like he was dating her during that show. Yeah, that is true. Sweet. Yeah, so no, no, no.

Okay, we're clearing up all the rumors. That is so funny. Years and years later. Okay, obviously we know Disney was like very strict now that like everyone kind of like knows the deal. Were you able to experiment at all like normal teenagers like have your first drink and like go to parties at all or no?

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. You did. Yeah. I feel like we had a healthy like teenage life. Yeah, but we were like not party girls. Like for whatever that's worth. I think.

The channel got very lucky having us under the umbrella. Yeah, I mean in a weird way. We should have been on for like 15 years. Cause they would have been like, they're good. We don't need to be worried about that. No, it's true. Keep going. Like yeah, for whatever reason,

we just were not like rebellious types. Both of us. And I think maybe part of it was because we had each other. Yeah. So it was like, we didn't have to act out and prove ourselves to like our parents or it was just like, I don't know. That's kind of nice.

Yeah. No, you're right. I don't even know what it is. It's like luck, I feel like. Maybe it's just luck. But also like Allie and I, this sounds kind of ridiculous, but when we got a little older, but we weren't quite like drinking age, people like kind of in LA started like trusting us as the girls that would like go into Ladoo, but not get hammered.

They're like, let them in. They can have a like- We knew some of the bouncers and they would just like mark our hand but not get hammered. They're like, let them in. They can have a like, I mean, we were posing underage. We knew some of the bouncers and they would just like mark our hand and they'd be like, we trust you, come in. They're like, give them some red bull. I'm not kidding.

I'm like, they're fine. Like, yes. Like, there's never gonna be a liability. No, like truly. And we kind of, I mean, and that was during the height of all of those girls, you know, where you see everybody. Honestly, don't ruin your moment.

Like, if you wanna have fun, do it right. Coming out of the club, messed up. But like, we were just fine. You were like, hi. Hi, we'll just be like, no problem in the corner. Yeah, and it's just being like a kiss ass. It was just like who we were. Who we were. fine. You were like, hi. I mean, I don't- I will just be like no problem in the corner. I remember it funny. Yeah, it's just being like a kiss ass. It was just like who we were.

Who we were. Which I think is- Which I think then made people be like, oh my gosh, you're so darling to Mashaka girls. Like they're just harmless. Sweet. Yeah, that was pretty funny. Everyone knows you guys as Allie and AJ, right?

Like everyone, it's Allie and AJ. It's Allie and AJ. Have you guys ever resented that package deal concept? No, I think we've always- Like the duo aspect of it? No, we've never resented that. I think the only thing that maybe we've been like, gosh, I wish we had had like a different band name

that wasn't our names. We didn't think it was cool. We didn't think it was cool. Like as kids, we were like, why did we do the Allie and AJ thing? Cause now it's just like- It's like, what's our names? Yeah.

It's very memorable. No, the duo thing didn't bug us. Didn't. No, no. Like when you guys were growing up at all, obviously taking different projects. And if like one was having more success than the other at a time,

like how did you guys handle that as sisters? Cause I have a sister and I don't care what we're doing. Like we were competitive. You're competitive. You know what I mean? And like, we are always supportive of each other, but I do feel like naturally there can be moments where it's like, we are always supportive of each other. But I do feel like naturally there can be moments where it's like, oh, like you're getting the better parts

or you're getting the better roles. Or like, did you ever have moments where you had to like sit down and be like, let's talk this out? I think the only time where we felt like, okay, we're getting asked to go out for the same roles and we feel really strongly that one of us is really right for this. And would you mind standing down? Like I think there were a couple times we both got the same audition. But usually one of us would come to the other and be like I'm really not right for this you should just go out for this and I'm just gonna pass. And the other one wouldn't like that's happened before where we're like we've just like said okay fine you go for it like by the way it would never be between the two of us. It would never be down to the two of us. Like our acting is so different.

I think our ages, our looks, our energy. But we did get asked sometimes to go to the same audition. And I think some of that was just because of, I don't know, some parts kind of would overlap. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where it's like, 22 to 25, and we're like, well, we're in that age range. But there was never a role specifically

where I was like, wow, I really wish that had been me, and I kind of bummed it was out. Like, never. For me, it was like, wow, I really wish that had been me. And I kind of bombed it was out. Like never. For me, I thought it was so cool that she was like an easy A and Hellcats and like, she's done great work and it always felt like it should be Allie. You know what I mean? And I always want it to be her over anyone else.

So if I'm not gonna book it, that'd be her. I'd rather than be a family member. No, that's such like a healthy way to look at it. Cause anyone that has a sister, I'm like, I want my sister to win always. And I think there's, you're right. There's like a natural also like aside from competitiveness, you're also very protective of your sibling being like,

I want her to do the best. But I also think it's very like healthy that you guys are able to have that because I'm not in the same industry as my sister. Like I can't imagine at some capacity, you guys are intertwined and there is a slight competition in light moments but that's kind of healthy that you guys are like,

we didn't feel it that much. No, and like if anything where it was, I mean, I guess you could call it competitive. It would be like, if we liked the same guy. Oh yeah, let's talk about that. Yeah, that would happen every now and then. That would happen every once in a while. You guys had the same taste growing up?

Similar, right? Yeah, similar. I would say, yeah, our tastes in a while. You guys had the same taste growing up? Similar, right? Yeah, similar. I would say, yeah, our tastes were very similar. Look at you guys adjusting now. You're like, well. I know, I know. Adjusting. Wait, stop.

So you guys at one point would have a crush and how would you handle it? Well, neither of us would get that guy. Yeah, we just both. We just both would be like, we both liked him and both of us failed. Or like, I remember, this is funny that you asked us, we were making a record in New York,

one that never ended up coming out. And we- We have 10 of those, no just kidding. No, just one. You're like one day maybe they'll come out. Yeah, two. And we were feeling very cool that we were like, living in New York for like a month, no parents.

I don't know, at this point we were were like 21 or 22 and 20, right? And every night we were really obsessed with wanting to go out to all of these restaurants in New York. Where like, sometimes it didn't even make sense where it's like, girl, that's way on the other side of town. All right, you're from Los Angeles and you don't know shit. So we would be like, okay, we're going to catch or whatever. And we went to this one restaurant called Revel.

I don't know why I remember that. I don't know if it's even still around. And there was a cute guy that was our waiter and I left my number for him on the bill. And I told AJ and she was like, what? I was pissed. We left the restaurant. She was like, he was cute.

And she's like, I know I left my number. And I was like, what? Like you mean I could have and I didn't and you did? And almost just judging me that I had done that, you know, and like put my neck out, so dumb. But obviously this guy never texted, rude. So you never called, right? So then meanwhile I'm like, I don't need to be competitive

because we didn't come to you either. We, I'm upset. And did you guys ever, ever, ever hook up with the same person at any point in your lives? Like overlap of like years later, you met up with someone. Like same kiss or? Yeah. No. No. No, there's been a couple like years later, you met up with someone. Like same kiss or? Yeah. No.

No. No, there's been a couple like- Close calls. Yeah, where it was like, I liked that guy kind of, and then it was like, oh no, like AJ and him are kind of dating, and then it would be like over after six months. Or there was a moment where I like tested for something

and the meeting guy I thought was really cool, and then Allie actually ended up dating him later. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it wasn't like I was also with him. No, no. There's never been an actual crossover. No. wasn't like I was also with him. No, no. There's never been an actual crossover. Thank God. I mean, that would be kind of weird.

We're so in matching each other's lives already. I know. You're literally like one in that concept. Like when I talk about, because my sister's four years older than me and we've never dated the same guy. But even you talk about it incessantly with each other, like when you start dating someone obviously.

So it's like, I couldn't go to her if I knew that she liked the guy that I was seeing. Right. And she knows all the inside. How do, obviously. So it's like, I couldn't go to her if I knew that she liked the guy that I was seeing. It's like too much. And she knows all the inside. How do you detail it out? She's like, I know, I experienced all of it. And it's different with a friend,

because with a family member, I would be like, Catherine, you need to get over it, because I need to tell you everything. And she'd be like, okay, he was cute, but now I'm over it. Okay, go tell me everything. Yeah, yeah, I know what I mean. She did one time help, like literally held my hand while I broke up with the guy over the phone.

I'm not kidding you. She was like, do you remember that? It was in Calabasas. You were like, you can do it. And I'm like on the phone with him being like, I really don't, this isn't right. Like I, and I'm like, is this good? You got it.

No, that is like literal. That's also so, I mean. And that just brought me back to that bedroom. Isn't that funny? Calabasas. Calabasas, yeah. Yes, we were Calabasas kids, I know. Before it was cool.

Way before it was cool. Love that for you guys. Breaking up with someone. One of those Johnny Rockets, you know what I mean, like we're that far back. I love that for you. Breaking up with someone is the worst feeling. The worst.

It's sickening. It's so hard. It's actually sickening. But that's why I like people, whenever I'm like, there's nothing better than having a sister. And I feel for my friends that are like, I never had a sister, I don't know what it's like.

It's like, it's a friendship on steroids. It's like, you are literally going to kill for her. And it's different than a brother relationship. It's actually almost a diss to call it a friendship. It's like, no, this is living on another level. That's a great point. It's like an extension of yourself. Yes, yes.

It's so fun hearing you guys talk about your dynamic together and obviously so much of what you're writing also goes into like love and your life and your family. And, but potential breakup song. I just have to ask the one question. Cause I think it's like, I saw a TikTok. We're gonna, we have to make this TikTok. And it's someone being like,

you guys remember when those two sisters walked into the studio and they really said this? It's to this day still such an anthem. What inspired that song? No, not a real person. Not a real person. Stop. It's actually the most like,

it's the most anti-climactic. There's no real person. I need to pause you guys because the way you both just paused, I thought I was about to get like, get the juicy now. Sorry. And you're saying it's like, record scratch. It doesn't exist.

It doesn't exist. Okay, tell me though. I think we just were like, what if there was a saying it's like, ah, record scratch. It doesn't exist. It doesn't exist. Okay, tell me though. I think we just were like, what if there was a guy that was such a, I mean, at this point we were 18 and, maybe younger, maybe 17 and 15 writing this song. Which we had dated, but like very little. At this point we had probably each had,

you would have probably two boyfriends, I had barely had one boyfriend, cause I was way behind her. Yeah, she was behind. Okay. So like, still, I'm like she was behind. She was behind, that's what I mean. behind her. So like- I'm like, she was behind. She was behind.

So still a lot of the songs were like, living in a dream world of what we thought a relationship was like, because we were still really young. So to us, it was like, what if this guy was like so terrible that he didn't call you on your birthday and that you begged him to get your stuff back

and he like wouldn't give it back and then you just had to deliver it in a box at your house. Literally that's like- It's that basic. It's literally like you two sitting on your bed together being like, genius, let's go. What's funny though, was that we couldn't drive. I do remember we were young enough

that we weren't driving. Since there is no story behind it, tell me both of your like most brutal breakups. We've got a lot of girlies that listen, how did you get through it? What was your most like brutal breakup and how you got through it? Obviously like we're not naming names, but just like the concept, like have either of you ever been cheated on? I mean-

You age, you go first. Yeah, I was cheated on. How did you find out? And I found out the guy was like hooking up with our really good friend at the time. No, how did you find out? Yeah, it like blew up the friendship and the relationship. I don't even know how it came out,

but it happened in the Calabasas Commons parking lounge. Stop. Yeah, and it was like, it was terrible. And we were young, so it was like, obviously it hits hard no matter what age you are when you feel like, wow, I've been completely lied to. But this was like a friendship, this was like a friendship, a girl friendship that was basically the breakup. It wasn't like the guy, if that makes sense.

It was like, we had found out some stuff about her that made us feel like we didn't really know who she was. And we had been friends with her for like a long time. And that was truly the worst breakup. And it was a girlfriend breakup. That's, those are the worst. And then we mended, like we're okay now. And you did, years later.

Yeah, like if we see her at a event or whatever, we like, we'll DM and stuff, but we don't like hang actively, which is kind of sad, cause it was a big part of our childhood. But like, that was so gross. That guy was like, didn't even matter. Right, you're like-

It's just the concept of what happened with the friendship. Well, that's always the worst when like, understandably people are like, don't blame the girl, blame the guy. And it's like, no, no, no, for sure. But if you were almost closer with the girl than the guy that you were dating,

that's where it's like, how do you recover from those moments? And then it gives you like full trust issues because you're like, how did I not know that? And you could like hold my hand while I'm crying over this and little do I know I'm crying because of you. Yeah, that's sick. Okay, Ali go.

Okay, I'm trying to think, gosh, worst. You haven't been cheated on, have you? I haven't been cheated on. That's nice. Which is actually good. That is good. That's for you, that's good. I know, that's beautiful.

That's good, that's good. I don't know what that's for you. That's good. I know that's beautiful. That's good, that's good. I don't know what that says about me. Let's all clap for that. No trauma. Yeah, no trauma. I'm trying to think of, hmm. I mean, I've had guys,

I've had more guys probably break up with me than me break up with them. Okay. So I've been broken up with probably quite a bit. Have you been blindsided by the breakups? I mean, I feel like I was blindsided many times. Yeah. Not many, but yeah. But a lot of them. So I've been broken up with probably quite a bit. Have you been blindsided by the breakups? I mean, I feel like I was blindsided many times. Yeah, not many, but yeah. But a lot of them, it was like, you know,

I was being broken up with because this person was like a professional athlete and was like, I need to work on my job and like your distraction. I'm like, bitch, I'm on a tour bus right now. You're a distraction. I need to work on my job? Yeah, I know. Like ridiculous.

Do you know where you're sitting? That couldn't have been a direct quote. No, no. That is the best direct quote I've ever heard. A professional athlete telling you, I have to work on my job. We, you know that I talk a lot about that. Yes, yes.

We, how long did you date? It wasn't that long, but it was very like... That was like a solid year. Maybe, maybe a little, I don't even know if it was a year. What sport? Hockey, football. Football. I remember being really heartbroken by that.

Now I'm looking back on it being like, no. But to any of the girls that are like, I feel like around new year, a lot of people end relationships. Cause I feel like everyone's like, oh my gosh, like I wanna start fresh. I wanna kick this person to the curb or I wanna like try something different. Like, do you have any advice

when you look back at those relationships when people ended things with you as hard as it was in the moment. Now, when you look back, like give us some advice of how to get through those horrible blindsiding moments. Honestly, like having a couple of really solid guy friends was really helpful.

Like I would talk to them about this and they'd be like, this guy's a total loser. Like absolutely not. And, and you know, of course you could say, well of course you're saying that, they want to get with you. But these were like truly platonic. Even if they do, okay.

Even if they do, it's like, okay, stop. But they were platonic relationships that were really, like I would, I would be on the phone, like talking to Dan. You know, I'm being like, and be like, can you believe this? And he'd be like, this is an absolute sign that this guy is not right for you. And like, he was only in it because he just wanted to like

sleep with you and be done and over the next, you know. And you're like, thank you, Dan. Thank you. Now let's hook up. No, I'm just kidding. Yeah, totally. Okay, Daddy Gang needs some advice. And I feel like all I'm getting from this entire episode

is you guys are very wise and you've always been wise and you've always been like- We're like little Yodas. No, literally. Like you guys, no, but actually you guys have been like- You think we're like Yodas? People would let you into the club because they're like,

Allie and AJ are gonna keep it real. You guys didn't lose yourself to fame. You didn't lose, you guys have like seemingly very normal lives and you're still so successful and you're still in the spotlight. So we need your advice, okay? You want to end a friendship where you've been drifting apart.

Do you have a breakup conversation with your friend or do you let it die out? I've done both. I've had more, if I'm being honest, I've had a couple die outs, not conversations where it's just kind of like you kind of stop texting and then it's like they also do. Yeah. And then it's like, you kind of are like, we both know this isn't right. Yeah. Just kind of a form of ghosting. It's not great. It is. I think you should have the conversation.

When you have the conversation, though, do you think those were more extreme moments? Like did something? Yes, it can make it too big of a deal. But it was usually because it was based on something that happened that I was like, I can't really not see this now and it's here and let's talk about it. And this is why I can't go forward as a friend. But I think that's good advice. It's like, you kind of have to gauge where you're at.

If it's just like, you never really see each other anymore, but you have this like weight over you and they're not being that great to you. You can maybe let it simmer. Yeah, to me, some things don't need like a spotlight. True. Sometimes it's not like this big, huge fight. Sometimes it's like, I'm seeing some things

about your lifestyle that doesn't gel with mine or that, I don't know, you weren't there for me in these moments that I needed you and it's kind of like showing your true colors and that's okay, we just part our own ways. And that's like sometimes that's part of just growing up and being a girl. I think that's what's like been so eye opening

as I've gotten older, like growing apart from friendships is so sad. And it's like horrible to look back at like some of my like high school friends that I'm not as close with anymore, whatever, or just also like recognizing like we really grew up and we are different or like we live our lives differently. And that doesn't mean they're a bad person.

You're just like, it doesn't mesh anymore. But it is sad when a part of your childhood in that way kind of dies. It dies, yeah. You're like, wait, I just said bye to a friend in a way that I know I'm not really gonna connect with again. And I think it's like sometimes, yes, sometimes those are harder

than actual breakups with men sometimes. Where you're like, shit, that hurt. But I think that's a good like bit of advice is like you can do both, but I think don't actively seek out a conversation if the person's gonna be like, shit, that hurt. But I think that's a good bit of advice is like, you can do both, but I think don't actively seek out a conversation if the person's gonna be like, wait, what are you talking about? If something happens, absolutely address it. But you can also let something simmer

if that's the natural course of where it was gonna go anyways. Yeah, and it says a lot if both sides aren't really reaching out. Then it's like the natural course was for it to fizzle. Period. It kind of says everything in a way. Okay, you find out you were accidentally the other woman. Do you reach out to her or do

you stay out of it? I'm the type that would reach out. Yeah. We're both breathing so heavy. We're all like, I'm like, yeah, I think I would contact her. I think I would. I can't find the other woman. I'm the other woman. I would contact her. I think I would. I think I would. I think I'm the other woman. I'm the other woman. I'm so sorry.

I didn't know. Well, what's funny is that we've seen one of our girlfriends, our close girlfriends do that. And it was like, I was kind of being like, I think don't do this. This is cringe. Like, why is this such a huge message? I don't know if she did it right.

She didn't do it right. I think there's a way you can. I mean, I've said that to her face. Like, you didn't nail this. Too long. She literally wrote like a paragraph. Yeah, no, no, no. And also then that girl is like,

uh-huh, yeah, right, sure, honey, you know? And then making her look like she's crazy when she actually is telling the truth. Are you making this up, that you're really the other woman? Like- Yeah, you look insane. Yeah.

Oh, this is really interesting. Yeah, I think a paragraph to ever start something off. It's bad. You gotta go in shorter and just begin the convo rather than hit it hard where someone's like, oh my God, I need to like read this tonight when I have time, like, and sit down and actually think about this.

Yeah. But, okay, so you guys would both say something. I would be like, I'm sick. Yeah. I'm ill. Like this happened, I need you to know, and I'm so sorry, bye. I kind of agree with that. Like, I'm ill. Like this happened, I need you to know, and I'm so sorry, bye. I kind of agree with that. Like, I feel like if you were not, again, clarifying,

you didn't even know you were the other woman. If you were aware, like then that's a complete different situation that's like on you. Karma's on you. Yes, but if you weren't aware, I kind of agree. Cause then even if she stays on her, you don't even need that. Totally, at least you had your moment to say like,

this moment happened and I said my piece and like I't even have that. At least you had your moment to say like, this moment happened and I said my piece and like I can live with that. Love this. If you knew one of your close friends was cheating on her husband, who you're also friends with, how do you handle that?

That's really hard. That's really hard. That's never happened, thank God. Has that ever happened to you? Maybe not husband or you have a boyfriend. I have known, not husband, but yeah, I've known that there's like shadiness going on. And you're close to both of them.

Yeah. And I kind of stayed out of it. Cause I just didn't know. Did it dissolve on its own with you staying out of it? You know what's interesting is I'm not really that close with them anymore, so I don't know what happened. But I also think maybe that partially is because it was like bleeding into every part of their life.

When you're lying that heavily in your life. Everything. Like she was more distant because she was being so cagey but then I was kind of like, I don't know. Oh wow. Yeah. I think it depends on maybe who like, who's the OG friend? Is it her or is it the guy?

Like, I don't know. Like if you met him at the same time, it's hard. I'd like to think I'd have the courage to say something or to be like, I don't know. If you met him at the same. I mean, if you met at the same time, it's hard. It's so hard. I'd like to think I'd have the courage to say something or to be like, I don't know, like, is everything okay? Like. Well, I want to think if I'm the same woman who's gonna tell the person I was the other woman

and didn't know until just now, I'd be that same person to say this. That's a good point. Like I like to think those two ladies are the same person. I agree. Like, bold. I agree. I think what's hard sometimes in friendship dynamics

is like, there's a lot of dynamics. I feel like you start to feel as you get older and there's cheating involved, I have found, sometimes I'm not privy to all the information of these people's relationships. And a lot of times I'm like, oh, you kind of knew that. Sure, I didn't get the whole side. Yeah, so I'm like, if I'm super close,

if it was my best friend and I'm hearing something, I'm telling her obviously and be like, I love you so much and I support you. I just need to tell you I know this. And then I'm here, whatever you wanna do. Cause I think it's half the time, the judgment that people feel when someone brings that information,

they get so anxious, like I have to leave him now, or I have to leave her now. And it's like, I don't know. Sometimes I feel like it come off as judge you when you tell them. So I also think your delivery has to be like, I love you and I have to leave her now. And it's like, I don't know. Sometimes I feel like I come off as judge you when you tell them. So I also think your delivery has to be like, I love you and I know this is so hard. But I saw so-and-so at this restaurant and this is weird.

And I'm leaving this information. Yes, but I'm here for you if you wanna talk and like, whatever you do, I love you. I think now in my 30s, that is how I would approach it. But it would take me a hot minute to come to that. Like bravery of like, okay, we're doing this. You'd call your sister first. Yes. We would rehearse it. Totally, we'd're doing this. You'd call your sister first. Yes.

We would rehearse it. Totally, we'd rehearse it. I'd hold her hand while she says the conversation or we would go in person and I'd hold her hand in person. Thank you, Riley. Okay, you accidentally sent a screenshot of the conversation to the person you were gossiping about. How do you play it off?

Ooh. Have you guys never done that? Have we done that? No. Oh my God, I have. Yeah, that's hard. Have you done it multiple times or just once? In college, I was talking shit about the guy

that I was seeing and I was like texting my friend and I was sunbathing. I was at Boston University. I remember exactly where I was laying. I was in my little bikini and it was so bright out and I was holding my phone up texting and I was talking to this hockey player. Couldn't see.

He was so dumb and I was just like so over it. And you texted it to him. I screenshotted it, send it to him being like, and I was talking to this hockey player. He was so dumb and I was just like so over it. I screenshotted it, send it to him being like, hockey player wants me to go on his boat later. Like I'm gonna have to have like a couple drinks together. And it went to him. And then what was his response? Was he like, we'll see now you can unset.

So we're in a good era for that. So now we're fine, so now we're good. Guys, I literally responded, I'm pretty sure. First I called my mom screaming. Like you guys, I am under the sun. I realized I do it. I'm pretty sure he responded like LOL at first, which is like actually kind of harmless.

He was probably thinking like, oh, that's funny. Or she's so dumb. This is a funny joke, right? Yeah, it shows how smart he is. Yeah, that shows how smart he is. I am hilarious. Yeah, no, and then I was like, LOL, I'm just kidding. I just can't decide if I wanna come.

What are you thinking? Good job, my girl. You guys? Did he roll with it? He completely rolled with it. Wow. Saw him later that night? Ooh, but that says even more. You did start the conversation saying he wasn't smart.

Completely. Also, why did I go? I don't know, I was bored, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, that's fair. Also, I think it was an ego thing where I was like, I have to see this man to like make sure that he actually forgave me. Like this is insane that he doesn't recognize

that I was completely shit-talking him. Insane, that he's fine with us doing the date. I would be more likely for sure to do something like that. 100% it would be out. You would? Oh, 100%. Like I'm actually surprised that it hasn't happened. But it hasn't.

Wait, cause you're just like, you're gonna do some like clumsy shit where you're like, how did I get in this situation? Clumsy texture, clumsy emailer. Clumsy text, he's like, hello, you're gonna do some like clumsy shit where you're like, how did I get in this situation? Clumsy texture, clumsy emailer. She's like, hello, you're on the wrong group chat. And it's like, oh shit. There will be times where all like sidebar chat to her. And I'll be like, just so you know,

you're talking in a way that if this leads to more, you're in the wrong chat. You're in the wrong track here. And she'll be like, oh, okay. Oh, totally. Thank you. That is kind of like younger sister energy though. Like the correction officer. I call my sister and I'm like, are you. That is kind of like younger sister energy though. Like the correction officer.

I called my sister and I'm like, are you okay? And she's like, what? And I'm like, why are you sending that to the family group chat? We were just texting and she's like, oh my gosh, I don't know. Like, yeah, I'm kind of, I'm always good on her. That does track as younger sister energy.

It is, it is. It's like, we know everything, like stay in line. Exactly. Okay, do you guys ever go on double dates? Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean with our people now. With our guys now.

I don't think in the past, have we ever really done that in the past? I'm trying to think. Before Steven and Josh? No, I don't think so. I don't think so. That's become more of an adult like. Yeah.

Or it's been like three-wheeling where it's like two people on a date and then I'm like, hey, I'm here hanging with you having lunch, you know. Or vice versa. That's true. Yeah. That's happening. Let's talk about Steven and Josh.

I'm like so serious. Allie, you Steven and Josh. Steven and Josh. So serious. Ali, you met your husband when you were in your early 20s. What made him stand out to you? I don't know, I just got a vibe. This guy is just different. He's really deep, he's very mature, he's just tapped into something. Where'd you guys meet?

We met on a set. He was the DP and I was the like lead actor in this like really tiny little indie. And I don't know, like I just picked up this energy from him that like just instantly I was kinda like, this guy is like, I'm like safe with this guy. Like I can really be myself around him and he's like artistic and he really really be myself around him and he's artistic

and he really cares about this project and how he's talking about it and how he is on set. He has very much like a leadership kind of energy even though he was very young and it was the first movie that he was a DP on. So I don't know, it was just like, it was a meant to be thing. And at the time I was seeing a guy that I was in, like I call it like a kept relationship.

Like I couldn't get out. It was just like, he was a guy who was older than me. That I had lost my virginity too, to be completely honest. And I was like, girl, we gotta get rid of him. And I was like, I'm good, like it's all good. Like this was a sweet memory and moment, but like we're done. You did break up and he like got you back. And he was like, I made you a woman, like bad.

He said that. He did. It's cringe. No, it's cringe. It's really cringe. We know, how long were you together with him? Like a year, like a year and a half. Yeah.

I know, I know, I know. That makes me, I did. Well, you had an okay friendship with him in the beginning. In the beginning. It's someone that should have always been like a guy friend. Never should have dated. 100%.

Wait, for a man to say that he made you a woman, I will kill you. No, I know, I know. I know it's gross. But the fact that I was like kind of chill, like almost kind of like a bro, like this is nice. Like whatever, like who cares? I lost my virginity to you.

It's like not that big of a deal. And he like had it in his diary. Yeah, it was very much a big deal. Like, wow, I'm excited about this. How did you end a relationship with him? Cause that's hard. Like to be like someone that's clearly he was more into it than you.

You called it a kept relationship. Yes, I know, I know. I mean, you did end it. And then remember he like convinced you to stay in it. To stay in it. So I like, we had broken up and then we got back together. And then I'm on this movie, like hanging out, shooting in Sequoia National Park.

We're all staying in these cabins at the base of the mountain. So like after we would wrap, we all would eat dinner together. And hang out and like run lines or whatever. And I just remember like, essentially like talking shit about him to people being like, I don't know.

I'm like, I'm in this relationship, but like, I gotta get out of it. Like, you know, at this time it was like what? It was like November, beginning of November. So I was probably thinking like, you know, I'm gonna try to wrap this up and be on my way. But I knew that I had agreed to do a movie that he was directing that was next.

It was the next film. So I had to do this next movie with him as the director. And I broke up with him at the beginning of the movie. I was so- But then had to be in it. But had to be in it. Directed by him. Yeah, and he would be kind of trying to be like,

no, like we can make this work. And I was like, we're done. I really don't want to do this. Wait, you're so strong for that. It was brutal. It was not, I do not recommend doing that. I recommend just bailing out of the movie and not doing the movie.

True, but also that's like your career where you're like, yeah, do I do it or that's tough. Yeah, that's also like ladies listening. I have been in that situation before when you try to break up with someone, anyone, whatever. And they don't let you go, okay? They literally won't let you. And they won't let you.

That means it's really bad. Run. It's kind of like firing someone that's like, you're not doing this. I'm not leaving. What? But why would you want me now? Like if I'm firing you,

you're not gonna be a good match. He'd always be like, no, that's normal. Like there'd be like ups and downs. Like sometimes like you'll be in and out of love. I'm like, no, no, no. That ain't how it works. No, when someone doesn't want you,

listen to them and leave. Yes, believe them. Oh my God. Okay, wait. So when you met Allie's husband, like were you immediately were you like- No, in the beginning I was like- I think she was a little judgmental.

Hated. There's some crossover that's happening here. I was a little judgy, I'm not gonna lie. Even though I knew Ali was gonna get out of it, I was like, you should have gotten out of it like six months ago and then you'd be like free and clear, but whatever. But then- At least he turned into my husband.

True, he turned into the husband so I'm happy. And he's literally become like my brother. Like I love him. And I have so much respect for him as a husband and a dad. Like to watch him as a father, like it's really beautiful. But in the beginning I was like, I don't know about this guy. Like he was really shy.

He was really quiet. I don't do great with quiet people except for like when I was translating. Except for when she's a translator. But like in general, like I'm like, come on, like, let's go. Like, let's have a conversation. Like I've got a really bubbly personality and he was just very quiet. He's like an intellectual.

He's very, he's super grounded, super smart. And I think I felt maybe like a little like, okay, here's this like Ivy league guy. I'm not gonna be able to like carry a conversation with him. He's probably smarter than me. Like I think I was intimidated. I get that. And again, back to what we were saying with sisters,

it's like you're so protective and you have to look for her blind spots. That's how I am with my sister. Like she's dating right now and I'm like, no, what is going on? And what it like, cause I'm just like, I want the best for her. So naturally it is your job almost to be like,

I don't like you until you prove that I should like you. Yes. And then he did. And I was like, I love him. Although two years later when he proposed, I like sobbed. Oh yeah, and you knew before. Yeah, I got so, not because I wasn't happy for Allie. I literally felt like I'm like, I'm gonna lose my sister I think.

Like I had this weird unrealistic idea that a marriage meant that me and her kind of, like I literally went up, we were living together in Laurel Canyon and we were sharing a place and I went upstairs, I lived in the top loft and I like closed my closet door and I sobbed. I was so happy for her, but at the same time I was like,

I'm literally gonna lose my sister. And it didn't happen at all. Of course, here we are. Yeah, here we are. But I do think that's really relatable. Like I've talked about this with my siblings, especially like around the holiday season, you get to spend more time with your family.

And it is kind of like sad when you start to get older and adult and do all the things that adults should be doing. And your core family starts to expand. And it's like now you're creating your own family. Right, and your own memories and traditions. And it's so sad, but exciting. But I relate to that a lot of like, as we are all growing older, you're like,

I wanna hold on to my siblings and what we had in our core, don't grow up and don't leave me. But really it's more just like, there's now more memories and there's more fun. There's more people. Yes, it adds to it. You mourn that a bit.

Nothing dies. No, but I get why you would freak out because like, I'm the same way. You're gonna, on the wedding night, like, God bless our dad, but like he, we were doing like a dance, even though it was a father to our dance later down the road, it wasn't my father to our dance, you had had yours, but I was like later dancing with dad.

And I was like, this is a really sweet moment. And dad goes, honey, how are you doing? And I was like, I'm really happy for them. Like, I feel really good about this. And he was like, that's awesome. You know what? You lost a sister, but you gained a brother. And I was like,

What the? Huh? I mean, it's insane. And it was everything I had cried about. Literally. It's all the truth. He didn't mean, my dad just, our dad talks like that. Yeah, he does.

And I was like, huh? You're like, wait, come again? You're like, dad? This is why I've been mentally unwell for the past couple years. Yes, unwell. But this is also the same man, love you dad, shout out to dad and mom, great people.

This is also the same man who like lost his father a few years ago and Steven never got to meet him, our grandpa. And literally at the funeral told Steven. I wasn't at the funeral because I was working. At the funeral told Steven, I want you to meet my dad. And he was dead in the castle. But he's in the, like that's, you know what I mean?

Like that verbiage is interesting. It's just interesting. You're like, dad. I want you to meet my dad. It's no one in talks yet. He's no longer here. You want to shake his hand. And I don't know how, dad. I want you to meet my dad. It's no open casket. You wanna shake his hand. Yeah, I know. And I don't know how, wait, you were there to witness it.

I was there. You said that Stephen handled it as best as he could. Stephen handled it so well. He was like, okay, Mark. Stephen's like, Mark, I am gonna meet your dad and we're gonna hit it off over here. Stare at the open casket. But dads can say some really, really relaxed stuff.

We're like, whoa. The more and more dads can say some really, really waxed out. It's unwell. We're like, whoa. The more and more they get older, dads, you have to smile. My dad has been saying some, love you dad, some crazy shit lately. I'm like, huh? Love you dad. Love you dad. You gotta just laugh.

Happy holidays. Happy holidays. Happy holidays. You're all insane. Okay, AJ, you have a boyfriend. I do, it's been six years. How did you guys meet? We met at a film festival in Napa.

Oh yeah, I know it was actually bougie. Ali and I had made a film with her husband that had gone to the Napa Valley Film Festival and he had produced and starred in a short film that was shortlisted for an Oscar that year that was also premiering at the film festival. And it was an amazing short film. And him and I met and like, there was like a spark,

but at the time he was with his girlfriend there and I was dating someone in Canada. Classic. I loved long distance for a while, which was just really an odd face. Yeah, Avery was really on that kick. And I just was like, gosh, I'm gonna know this guy for a while.

And I don't know how or why, and it's gonna happen at some point. But I remember he was wearing this like lumberjack, red, black flannel. And I was just know how or why and it's gonna happen at some point. But I remember he was wearing this like lumberjack, red, black flannel. And I was just like, this guy is hot and he's like salt of the earth vibes. And then down the road, a year later, he was single, I was single and we connected on Instagram. And we needed somebody in our video.

For take me. I cast him in our video. To be a victim in our video because we were playing vampires. And you're like, you. And you were like, can we kill you in a video? He's really hot. He should be in the video. Like, let's have him And you were like, can we kill you in a video? He should be in the video. Like, let's have him in it.

Wait, what was your first impression? How did you meet him? When did you meet him? I met him at the festival. Yeah, I think you did okay. Was there like a crossword? Were we on a panel or something together? I think, yeah, yeah.

And then we did the video shoot and he was like super down. And then we had a couple of girlfriends come and also be victims and they were like down to just kind of like hang out for the day. When they started dating, were you protective or no? I don't know, what do you feel like? I feel like because you already had Steven in play for such a good chunk of your life,

you've lost some of that because you're set and you're like, she's got this. Yeah, I think maybe when I aged, it was younger, I was more protective or more like, who is this guy? Like, what are you after? Are you actually a loser? And you're just like hiding it really well. Yep.

But I feel like I've always been on like good terms with most of the guys that you've dated. I feel like you have too. Like kind of a friendly banter. You maybe not as much where you've been like friends with my exes and my friends. True, in a way, I've been more judgmental about who she's dated than the other way around. Which again, maybe is the little sister, big sister. Oh, me a way I've been more judgmental about who she's dated than the other way around.

Which again, maybe is the little sister, big sister. Oh, me too. I'm like, you're a fucking loser. You don't deserve my sister. My sister's like, Alex, I've gone on two dates with this man and you just ran into him on the street in New York. This wasn't even a planned meeting.

I'm like, back off. My sister's like, he's like what? Okay, I'm like, yeah, that's a nightmare to have me. Your parents are divorced, right? How do you guys think their divorce informed how you approached your romantic relationships in your adult lives? If I'm gonna speak for AJ, I think that-

Oh, no, that's fine. Don't speak for you, speak for me. I think, I mean, we kind of do in general. We speak for each other. It's like maybe a bad habit, but I think that AJ, as the little sister vibes, was more like heartbroken by it. Yeah, I took it really bad.

And took it really bad. What age did they get divorced? 2019 and 21. Okay. Yeah, 1921. So like in a way you're old enough to know exactly what happened, all the details. Like I think there's a positive and a negative to it.

But I think for us, I was shattered. It helped that I was on a TV show and I was living by myself alone for the first time out in Vancouver. And so I was just focused on that. And you were like left to be at home with my mom, still all of us at that point were living together

and you were kind of mourning the divorce a little bit with her. So I think in a weird way, you like carried some of that trauma with you where I was kind of like, bye, I'm off shooting the show for eight, nine months. And then I came home. But when you wrapped, we ended up living together.

We lived with our mom while she kind of dealt with getting her life back together after the divorce. Like we, it would ended up being like a home of three women. Like we kind of- It was like three's company, but just ladies. No, that kind of stuff, like I know can like, you're right, affects people in different ways, literally down to like logistically where you were at

in the middle of your parents getting divorced can play such a role in like how it genuinely affected you because you got to be essentially removed. Correct. Yeah, that's a good point. Did you notice anything with like how that affected when you started to like engage in romantic relationships? There was infidelity with what happened. We're actually like super close with both parents and I was able to forgive our father and like I

actually feel like we're in a great place now but at the time it was really hard for me and I think when I was dating people I immediately had this trigger that like they're gonna cheat up like they're gonna like because how could that happen after 23 years of marriage? Like I feel bad talking about it cuz I love my dad but like it really was one of those things that became a trigger point that like didn't really need to be there. Like no one needs to be assuming you're being cheated on. You just feel like you've seen it now.

So you're like, it's gonna happen. It's horrible. I also think like that's such an interesting dynamic cause I could be sitting here with someone that had their parents get divorced when they were like six and it fucked them up. But it is interesting hearing you guys talk about cause I know this is a very, very, very relatable topic

which like I have a friend that has a similar situation to you guys with your parents. When you are that age and you're very deep and about to begin to explore your romantic adult relationships, to have a foundation that was pretty, it seems like pretty solid for your whole- Well, people would be shocked, you know,

to find out like, wait, what? The Machaka family, they broke up? So your reality was so disrupted. I can imagine that, yes, then you're like, wait, if I can't trust my dad, then I can't trust any of these men. When really, again, it's like, they're doing this for the first time too,

and that's their relationship or whatever, but it affects you. It does. Girls. But I don't think it's like, or at least I didn't feel like it turned me off from marriage or not believing in marriage for whatever reason.

No, no, I agree. I think we still like believed in the idea of it. And I don't know, I think we always felt like, okay, there is a chance that you can actually have a successful marriage in this day and age. You just gotta really work on it. And I think if I'm-

They stop working on it. Yeah, they stop working on it. If I'm gonna be the little Yoda that I am in my heart. Bring it, bring it, here we go. That I am in my heart. I love it. I'm kidding, I'm kidding. I love you.

I'm joking, but I do love Yoda, actually. The child really is. Yeah, the child. We love Grogu. I think that not working on the relationship between the mom and dad is the whole end of the marriage because everything was poured into me and AJ and that was almost like the scapegoat.

And then it was like, oh, we don't work on ourselves. We're not gonna be in therapy. We're not gonna do these things. We're not gonna make sure that you are flown out on tour every two and a half weeks while my mom is out with us. Instead we're gonna pride ourselves being the parents that were really there for the two kids in the industry.

But then it's like, but then your guys is really what caused it. What caused it, which then affects us. Right, that's interesting. I saw someone recently talking about when people just become their identity as being a mother or a father, it's like, you can't just be one thing.

Like, what's your identity to yourself? What's your identity to your partner? And that's how you lose yourself if you're just one. I wonder, like, obviously, how old is your child? He's, he'll be eight months. I mean, I guess he's when this is out, like, he'll be, you know, almost nine. Oh my God.

Yeah. How has like that concept of like recognizing still needing to pour, cause you're in the thick of it right now. Like you've got basically a newborn. How have you tried to like work with your partner to make sure you guys are good, even in the excitement of having like a new child

and that's all you wanna talk about? Well, I think making moments where it can be the two of us, or even if like our kid is around, it's like, okay, well, he's like asleep right now, we can still kind of have like a little date night and go out to dinner and put him in his little stroller and like, it can still be romantic or we can put a movie on or we can get away to our favorite place in Big Sur

and it can be not just all about the kid, you know? No, your son is so adorable. Like when he was at tour, I was literally like, this is the most calm baby. I literally walk into your dressing room. He's here? Yeah, you can see him. I see him after, yeah.

Yeah. He's in a little, he's not in a matching. We couldn't get miniature, but he's in a little. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. You wanna try, you wanna try. We did. No, I'm obsessed. The merch team was like, we can't get that turned around.

They're like, please calm down. You're like, okay, fine. Okay, sorry. Okay, we're gonna go through now. I wanna do new music, we can't get that turned around. They're like, please calm down. You're like, okay, fine. Okay, before we're gonna go through now, I wanna do new music and we're gonna play one last game because I think it's fun because sister dynamic. ["Sister Dynamic"] Okay, ready? Who is the more bougie one between the two of you? Who likes the nicer stuff?

I don't know. Maybe, maybe AJ. She'll splurge on more like, like a skincare thing or like doing like, like nails. Skin is beautiful. Thank you. Facials, massages. Yeah. Oh yeah, the spa, the spa. We both love a spa, but I tend to like,

maybe do it a little too much. I was gonna say, is that like, what is the luxury thing you can't live without? The spa? Yeah, facials. Like every, like three weeks. Well, it's paying off. Thank you.

Literally, you have great skin. That's really sweet. Oh my, you do, it's amazing. Did you ever have bad skin, like as a teen? Did you? Oh my God, yes. So like, I will take all the compliments. No, oh my God, you guys,

I had full-acutea when I was younger. Oh wow. Really? But it was just very hormonal and then I got over it. And then it was gone. Wow. And now here we are. Glowing. Facials.

Okay, who is more likely to take a secret to the grave? Me. Probably AJ. Yeah, AJ. You just smiled so big, AJ. I was like, come on. You're like, give it to me. That is true. I'm like, come on, bitch, it's me. But I'm pretty good at keeping a secret. Yeah, AJ. You just smiled so big. I was like, come on. You're like, give it to me. Although, yeah, that is true.

AJ, the- I'm like, come on, bitch, it's me. But I'm pretty good at keeping a secret. No, you are, you are. But with each other. Got it. To the grave together. Do you know what I mean?

Love. But that's not to the grave. That's not, I know. But it has to be between the two of us. Who is more likely to pick a fight between the two of you? I mean, we both can pick a fight with each other pretty quickly. Pretty quickly, if it's the right subject matter. I mean, we both can pick a fight with each other pretty quickly if it's the right subject matter, the right thing.

If it's like, we're disagreeing on something, like how something was handled. Like AJ will be like, "'You had a bunch of typos in this one business email.'" I'm like, who cares? Yeah, I'll correct the correction officer. She's like, you're writing an email like you're texting. I'm like, this is sloppy.

This isn't good for our business. I'm like, okay. I'm like, sorry is sloppy. This isn't good for our business. I'm like, okay. I'm like, sorry, like that, you know. But that's not even a fight, but like I usually start something sooner. I feel like then you do. That's probably true. Yeah, Adria's maybe a little more fiery.

I love if you had to say, what is your biggest pet peeve about each other? I just like start a full fight between you guys. On this podcast. Oh my gosh, I have it. Wow. Oh wow. Allie started doing this in the last like year very consistently. I actually don't think I have addressed it with you. Oh my gosh, I have it. Wow. Oh wow. Allie started doing this in the last year very consistently.

I actually don't think I have addressed it with you. Oh my gosh. Where she'll go, maybe you could do that. Like she'll- Yeah, you're right. It's me, it's me being like- She'll start a sentence that she's asking you to do something, but instead it's like, maybe you could get that bottle,

like for Jack, or like maybe you could get that- That's true. You know what I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know how you word it exactly. I think it starts with maybe you could. Oh, interesting. And it's like, you want me to? Like you want me to or I could maybe do it. Like, ask me the question and I'm talking about. I don't know how you word it exactly. I think it starts with maybe you could. And it's like, you want me to? Ask me the question and I'll do it.

Okay, so I should just be asking the question. Or just be like, get me this. Get me this. I mean, I'd rather you just say like, do that. Get the burp cloth. Maybe you could. Maybe you could, oh, interesting. Oh, that's it, you're eating.

That drives me nuts. That's a good one. That is a great one. Okay, your turn. You're eating. That's funny. That's a good one. That is a great one. Okay, your turn. Ooh, AJ. Okay, we both are OCD and we know this about each other, but AJ loves to reorganize an area that I've already kind of pre-tried to organize

knowing that AJ doesn't like something moved. That's true. Like the shoes or something. I'm like, okay, she'll like it in this corner. I love this line up perfectly. And then it's like moved and it's like, the shoes are just in a different corner, but they're still, they're still on the ground.

And you're like, I literally cleaned for you. I'm like, I cleaned for the OCD, like just trying to get ahead of it. But that's OCD. You can't, it has to be your way. You have to be your way. Doesn't make any damn sense, but it's your way. Even if you move it, put it back.

Nothing logical. It's like this pile of clothes. You're lucky I did not reorganize this bookshelf. I can't imagine what you're feeling in this room. It's only in my of clothes. You're lucky I did not reorganize this bookshelf. I can't imagine what it's actually feeling in this room. It's only in my own space. That's what's weird. It's never in someone else's ever. Who is the first to usually apologize

if you guys are coming back from a fight? Probably AJ. Yeah. Ali, I don't even remember the last time you said I'm sorry. Yeah, yeah, I'm not good at saying this. She does not apologize. Okay. No, but you said you're usually lightly starting it and then you're ending it. Yes. Love that for you. I'm not good at singing. She does not apologize. Yeah, that's true. Okay. No, but you said you're usually lightly starting it

and then you're ending it. Yes. Love that for you. I'm a closer. You guys, your new music. Okay, we're here. Let's talk about it. You have a new album coming out and a single.

The single is coming out on January 10th. January 10th. Love, what is it called? What It Feels Like. We were supposed to do that at the same time, but it's fine. I know. Yeah, let's do it again. Ready? Okay.

What is it called? What it feels like. Wait. Fuck. And five, six, seven, eight. What it feels like. Gorgeous, gorgeous. Okay, talk to me about this album. What is the inspiration behind the music?

I mean, this record feels like it's never been more us. Obviously every single album you're hoping to achieve you know, that 10% better, right? Each time, just like you would with like each, you know, season of the show. But I do feel like we've really stepped into like our womanhood on this album. And I think part of that is,

is I think just seeing that this music has been so informed by our live show and touring and playing songs to a live audience and with our band that we've now been playing with for a few years has really helped us identify, okay, this is the kind of music we want to put on a record and what we wanna then go out and tour.

So I think it's looking at it from like, the live show is the top of the pyramid and how do we get to the live show? And I think a lot of this music was created with people that we felt really safe with and was while I was like heavily pregnant. I mean, I guess we started writing it right before I got pregnant.

And then really the whole making of this album has been either me pregnant and then delivering and then album is finished and delivered itself. Oh my God. Yes. Her water broke in like day two of like pre-production at her house. Yeah. In the guest room.

Wait. At like six a.m. That's kind of like beautiful. I was texting with Steven. It was very, it was very us. He's like, what's going on in there? He's like, I think her water broke. I was like, what?

We just started the album. And then I got really nervous thinking OCD. I was like, she's gonna be pissed because this water is on her bed and on the ground. Not when it's like your child. Although that is pretty funny. Allie's like, clean it up, clean it up. I was like, clean it, clean it, get the rags.

We, oh my God. We, okay, so how long was the writing process of this album? The writing was finished. So I would say the writing took a solid year. Yeah, yeah. Before we really were ready to be like, these are the 15 songs we wanna record.

We're very like, thoughtful about. Maybe just under a year. Yeah. This is a hard question. What is your favorite song off the album? That's hard. I'm so happy with this record, but I really think my number one is Michael hard question. What is your favorite song off the album? That's hard. I'm so happy with this record, but I really think my number one is Michael's song.

We wrote it about a really dear friend of ours that we had worked with in the industry for years and he passed away last year. And we were like, we have to write about this. And we were on tour. We were on tour during the funeral. We weren't able to come. Our parents came on behalf of us, which was really sweet.

We're really close to his daughter and his wife. Literally like a long standing member of the Alley and AJ team. Like the longest running team member for us. Like, you know, so it was like, it was kind of almost like a father figure, you know? So it was very hard to come to terms with it. And then we, we felt like this could be a song, you know?

And it's so specific. Like when you listen to the song and you read the lyrics, you're like, oh, this is very specifically about someone. Like the very last time we saw him. And not knowing, of course, that it would be the last time. That it was like our last dinner. But I feel like that's such a powerful message because everyone has experienced grief,

so they'll be able to like transport themselves probably when they're like the last time they saw whoever it was to them that they lost and they what is your favorite? Honestly it's kind of a tie between two and I think it's because it has to do with my son and then the fact that I was leaving Laurel Canyon to then live in Santa Barbara like away from AJ I wrote, I basically wrote this song with AJ about like moving into this new house and this new space and it not feeling like a home and feeling like I was kind of like summoning it

to be this place that I felt welcomed in. And not like it had like bad juju or vibes. I just was like, this isn't perfect and this isn't right. And I want to change out this doorknob. And my husband was just like, okay. And I'm like pregnant and like nesting and I'm just like frantic. Like fix this, this needs to be fixed. And it just, and I was like, you know what, this would be a good song. Like willing this to happen and to make this space a home. And I really love AJ's, the way she sings the bridge on that song. The song's called, I Don't Know What It Is.

And I think that song just, whenever I listen to it, it's almost kind of healing because I'm finally at a place where the home doesn't feel like- A shell? Yeah, like a shell. It feels like, oh, this is a place that has good memories and I associate like my birth and I birthed in this living room right here.

And this wasn't traumatic. This was all kind of what I hoped it would be. Oh, that's beautiful. Yeah, so I think it's like the end story of it is really great, but it was very much me struggling to find my identity within the home. And then the other song that's like maybe equal to that is a song called Dandelions, which is about Jack.

And we kind of wrote this pre him being born, which is crazy. So knowing he was coming, knowing he was coming and that we wanted him to like have this message of hope and like whatever dreams we're not able to reach, he is more than capable of reaching them himself, you know? That is hopefully each generation reaches more. Oh my God, how crazy and cool that you guys like one day,

like your son will get to watch you perform a song about him live and listen to it and have it forever. Like that's such a beautiful gift. Yeah, I mean, that is the power of songwriting. Like it really is. I think the other thing about specifically songwriting, and it's funny because I'm learning constantly about music we've actually already written,

but I'm learning new things about what we've written after the fact. Like to me, when a song takes on a new life, but it'm learning new things about what we've written after the fact. Like to me, when a song takes on a new life, but it had a different meaning when you wrote it. Like, I don't know what it is. Now, when I listen to that song and I picture your home, which you've now created from the ground up as like a beautiful nest, I'm like, whoa, this is so different than how we came

at this song, writing it, thinking we're splitting up as sisters. We're no longer going to live in the canyon by each other. We're like, what are we doing? We're going to be torn apart. And it's like, no, we're just shifting into sisters, we're no longer gonna live in the canyon by each other. We're like, what are we doing? We're gonna be torn apart. And it's like, no, we're just shifting into other parts of our life. Right now that song is like, shows your growth because now your house is a home

and now you're so happy and now you can go. This is what I love how songwriting teaches you something but you wrote it. Like a year later, you're listening to it differently. It's kind of prophetic in a way. That's really cool. It is prophetic. How songwriting is.

And I think with this record, there was so much like feminine energy around it. And I think part of that was me being pregnant. But then part of that was us just going through the growing pains of like, we are getting older and we don't live down the street from each other. And we aren't living in our childhood really anymore. We're out of that phase.

And we're not in our twenties anymore, which we just got reminded by an executive. Yeah, literally. Stop. We went to have a meeting, like I'm not kidding, like a label meeting. Literally like last week. The note was like, we love the record,

we think it's amazing, but like we're not here to break women in their thirties. Like we're here to break pop stars in their twenties. I was like, so we need to be like 21 or something? I was like, I'm 35, she's 33. I was like, we're still young as hell. And I was like, now I'm reminded that we're not. After the meeting, she was like, I'm sorry.

I just, I have to kind of like, like not after the meeting. I had a process. After we had heard that it was a no. So it was like, you know, we did the meeting and then it was like, you know, whatever it was. Two days later, it was like, oh, a call is coming, you know, and we're kind of going, okay, well I want,

I hope it's like positive. And then that was the feedback. And he was like, I just need to sit with this for a minute. Yeah, because I'm like, I've never even thought of myself as not being in the zeitgeist of a young. Right, and you're also like, is the music good or no? Like, what does it have to do with how old I am? And it's like, how many times do you think

they've said that to a man? Probably never. Probably never. We're not trying to break a, what? I know, I know. Also, I'm like, we're not horses. Yeah, yeah, totally. You don't need to break us.

Totally. And we've broken. You know what I mean? I think part of it was besides, you know, like you said, the fact that it's maybe not ideal age for breaking an artist, whatever, in the music industry. I think part of it was also like the album was completed and done, they couldn't meddle and change stuff.

Because it's finished. It's not like, hey, here's some demos. And they're like, oh yes, we love track one, note of two, three and six. Change this sound and this stuff. Because it was finished. Because it's finished. It's not like, hey, here's some demos. And they're like, oh yes, we love track one, note of two, three and six. Change this sound and this five. And then you're like, no. And they were like, you know, Anne, we wouldn't maybe go down this route sonically for you.

I'm like, us playing music and writing the music? Like, what do you mean? Oh my God. Yeah, it's wild. So it was though a blessing that you guys just did it on your own. And you don't want to work with someone that doesn't want you in the way you are exactly at right now.

Because clearly you guys said, you have other records that you never put out. This feels right to you, so go with what feels right. It's a message that is very pure in what it is. There's no gimmick behind it. So they're not like, oh, I can like. It's harder to sell sometimes. Yeah, it's harder to sell something.

Because they're like, what's the shtick? And it's like, just we're sisters, we play music, we write, we've been doing this since we were young. But I think that's like the best part about you guys. Like I have to say, growing up and listening to you guys, you have such incredible voices, but hearing you perform live at my tour, I remember like pinching my best friend Lauren,

being like, their voices are so beautiful. Like literally you guys have like, their voices are so beautiful. Literally, you guys have such incredible voices. And what I appreciate about you guys and about this album is actually more like that it is real. It is obvious when people have not written their music and when they're told to wear the certain thing and look the certain way,

just kind of like you guys are describing, you would go into meetings and you feel people trying to shift and mold you into something that you're not. And I think if people are looking for something in their life music wise, that's actually going to connect them to the real shit that they're going through.

This is more of the album. I think like people right now are more interested in then maybe who knows? No, but sure you can love pop, but like I really think that you guys are connecting to something that people are loving, which is authenticity. So thank you.

It's exactly what your show's about, Dawn. Yeah, and I feel like people gravitate towards that. You know, I think people are searching for that. That's why this show works. Like, it's authentic. Because it's speaking to the truth of how women talk and how women feel and how we communicate with our fans. But you knew that was a missing piece.

Yes, yeah. Was it really going on? I think it's so exciting to see you guys like back at it. And I think it also is such a testament to like your ability to be critical of yourselves, to be like, we didn't put out certain albums because it didn't feel right and we weren't ourselves. And so the fact that like, this is all you,

this was done at a very incredible, vulnerable, emotional time in both of your lives. Like, I think that the world is gonna be so, so, so excited to hear it and they're gonna love it. So I'm so excited for you guys. You are so lovely as human beings. I know we haven't spent that much time together, but like I feel like I now know you guys enough

to be like, you guys are real ones. So thank you so much for taking the time during the holidays and coming and sitting down with me. You guys are the best. Happy new year. Happy new year. You could be a little set. You're putting it on. We look like we're related. You are. You are. I'm coming. I'm coming in. I'm going to put it on. Love you guys. Love you too.