Call Her Daddy - Anna Delvey

Episode Date: March 16, 2022

This week, Father Cooper interviews Anna Delvey from prison … or should we say Anna Sorokin. Alex doesn’t go easy on the fake German heiress who conned the elite of New York City. Find out the answers to the questions we all want to know. Watch the video for the full experience. You won’t be sorry. Enjoy.

What is up, Daddy Gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper, with Call Her Daddy. Hello, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Call Her Daddy. I am your host, Alexandra Cooper, and I am here today to answer the question that everyone has been asking on the internet. Who the fuck is Anna Delvey? She has family money. She's a European socialite. She has a trust fund. It's just tied up. She'll be good for it. She'll wire you the money. What is that accent? Oh my god. She's really high up in the art world, I heard. I heard that she's a German heiress. Her real name is Anna Sorokin, but she changed her name to Anna Delvey when she arrived in New York City and she pretended to be someone that she was not. She inserted herself into the world of art and fashion and

finance in the greatest city in the world, New York. Anna Delvey quite literally walked into banks and convinced these rich dick investors that her idea, an art club for New York society, was worth investing millions and millions of dollars into. Now you're probably thinking, why would they invest if this girl has no money? Because she forged bank documents and falsely claimed that she had $60 million in a trust, which she absolutely did not.

Anna lived in fancy New York City hotels and she racked up over $30,000 in unpaid room charges. She promised she was going to pay them back, but she couldn't. She was well known, mysterious, convincing. Her life was a dream come true until it wasn't. Anna Sorokin was arrested on October 3rd, 2017 and rejected a plea deal and she stood trial. Anna was convicted of eight guilty charges, including grand larceny in the second degree, attempted grand larceny and theft of service. Anna was sentenced to four to 12 years in prison, fined $24,000 and ordered to pay almost $200,000 in restitution. She went to prison for her crimes. At the time of our interview, on Monday, March 7th, so about a week ago, Anna was detained in upstate New York at the Orange County Correctional Facility. This was the first interview that I conducted with someone

physically in prison. And I want to prepare you for what you're going to see and hear. Due to COVID restrictions, I was unable to visit the prison. So I interviewed Anna over a video chat app specifically designed for inmates. The app only allows 15 minutes per call. So throughout the episode, you're going to hear us pause mid interview because our 15 minutes were up and I'd have to wait for her to call me back. Also at times you may hear other conversations happening in the background. Anna was in the common room with her inmates and we had no control over the noise level and who was coming into the room at the time. So also you're about to hear Anna talk about the fear of being deported. She does not want to

go back to Germany. She wants to stay in the United States. But earlier this week, it was announced that Anna Sorokin was released from jail and ordered to return to Germany. But apparently she also may not be getting deported or she's not on that plane because it's currently unclear where Anna Sorokin is. Everyone thought she was getting on a plane to go back to Germany and all the news outlets are saying she didn't. So where the fuck is Anna Delphi? Am I shocked that she didn't get on the plane and she got her way out of it? No, not really. Nothing with Anna shocks me anymore. Daddy gang, this is Anna Sorokin. bye Anna it's so nice to meet you finally so nice to meet you too to clarify should I refer to you as Anna Delvey not Anna Sorokin uh sure, yeah. Are you ever going to legally change it?

I mean, I should if they, like, ever let me out of jail for longer than six weeks. You're like, the first thing I'm doing is going shopping. The second thing I'm doing is changing my fucking name. The first thing I'm going to do is laser my eyes because I'm so sick and tired of all these glasses for some reason. People think it's, like, an accessory, but, like, I'm half blind. I can't see anything. What is your daily routine like right now in jail?

Well, there is none, because here, like, in jail, you just kind of do whatever you want. So I kind of wake up, like, they bring mail super early, and I get all kinds of mail now. It's just so crazy um I have like people wanting to adopt me I don't like get any haters I guess they just go like to my IG or to Twitter have you gotten any love letters definitely more marriage proposals than I ever did before my um criminal career started you should be like let me see your w2 and then we'll have a conversation

i have a jail assistant so i'll have her do that you have a jail assistant can you explain what does a jail assistant do we have tablets where i'm like video chatting you from but the tablets die like all the time so i'll go for like maybe two or three but there are some people who don't use theirs like I'm buying tablets of other people and like their phone minutes because the phone is like so tricky so I'm just doing all kinds of things you're working the system as you know best I know yeah it's just like so did you have a hustle because I remember when I interviewed Amanda Knox she was saying basically like your skills become your currency almost. Like did you have a hustle at all at Rikers? No, not at all.

It's like if you have money, you don't really have to do anything. It's just like – I mean in Rikers like you cannot do your laundry. Like you have to like hand wash it. So you just pay somebody to do it. So you were paying people off in jail to just like do your stuff yeah absolutely they actually um think I'm like super rich so where were you getting the money to pay them well they don't care about that and you were getting money from your bank account yeah in Rikers you kind of became popular among

the inmates what do you think they liked about you Anna oh that's a good question for them I don't know do you think you're a likable character I don't know it's not something I want to like say about myself. I hope I am. Well, I try not to be insufferable. I don't know. You told New York Magazine reporter Jessica Pressler of all the people that you met in prison, you found the murderers the most interesting. What do you remember about the conversations that you had with them I guess the most kind of revelatory thing about it is like they're just normal and they're just like you and me so many crimes that just like happen like in a moment just like that and then then your life is just like never the same as opposed to mine which was kind of like a build-up and it was like years in the making so and that's like difference i imagine i would have been so much

more upset if i like got mad and just whatever shot my boyfriend and then i would just have all my life would be taken away i have to call you back it's like three seconds okay i'm hoping we can fucking hear her um okay wait what do i do press use my balance to pay okay do not disturb okay we're back okay this is what you're asking what I need an assistant for? Holy shit. Okay. Let's go back to your childhood. As a little girl, what did you want to be when you grew up?

I always wanted to be in fashion, definitely. I did not know what exactly, but I don't know. I grew up watching MTV and I thought like fashion PR is just the coolest thing um I remember like watching Kelly Catron so stuff like that I don't know I didn't really know but I just like I loved print and I loved magazines so I either wanted to be like on one side or the other and you were born in Russia do you still have family and friends there? Are they being affected by the war right now? No. Well, your parents and your family packed up and moved to Germany when you were 15. Why did your family have to move and did you want to go? My dad owned like a business, like a trucking business. They were like having like drivers go back and forth transporting like goods across Europe. And he was partners with like some German person.

And that's how he relocated. Did your mom have a job? No, my mom had like the second child, my little brother at the time. So he was pretty young. So she was like busy with him. Did you and your parents get along growing up um on and off i was like never best friends with my parents and they kind of like let me do my thing i'd say what would you guys fight about if anything well i just hated to be told what to do or like I hated on them to like put any restrictions like about any roles

I was just like allergic to authority or like to rules especially when I thought they were unreasonable and like I just hated to explain myself because I was just so used to being given freedom freedom and then like when that was when they attempted to take it away or impose some kind of like restrictions on me I did not really react um like what would they try to take it away or impose some kind of like restrictions on me I did not really react um like what would they try to take away if you were getting in trouble like my car or um I could not like go and spend the night at my friend's house um or just yeah like I could not go out or they would just like try to financially restrict me especially my mom and I hated that I never wanted to be like controlled with money.

Did you ever then consider at a young age, like getting a job since like you wanted to have financial independence? Yeah, yes and no. Like none of my friends really had a job. That was not a thing. I don't know. Oh no, I actually had a job. So my dad was renting out

um we had like this huge whatever some kind of like industrial building and this like solar company was renting it from them so they employed me and they're like totally overpaid me I got like a paid vacation after like just working for them for six weeks because they were like American and they didn't know like German boys and they literally gave me like paid Christmas vacation I got like 1500 just for doing nothing but I was extremely overpaid I was making like 30 euros an hour or something like that do you think you were more like obsessed with money than the average kid? I don't know. I just wanted to have the freedom that comes with it. What did you want to do?

I just want to like to do what I wanted. I don't know. Just like go, I don't know, travel and go places and do things without having like, because if you ask your parents for money like you need that permission right but if you have your own you just go and do whatever you want so I guess like money just always kind of represented freedom for me not just like for the sake for the sake of the money so were you closer if you had to stay with your mom or your dad I'd say I would stay with my dad because I would have

more freedom and less oversight. And well, it would give me more money too, definitely. Where do you think your aversion to authority started? I'd say, I guess it's pretty strong, the word aversion to authority. I just, I don't know, I guess because my parents, like I was really good in school when I was younger. So they just trusted my judgment and then just let me do whatever I wanted to but then when I kind of started getting older when I was like oh maybe I don't need to like spend two months studying this geography book because I'm really not that interested so when I kind of like started to catch on to that and I started to like oh maybe we need to like get her to do something

I guess it just like stepped in too late I don't want to like blame stuff on my parents but it's like if you kind of grow up like I guess when you're like 16 17 is not really the age to start imposing roles on somebody if you like fail to do so do you think you also got worse as a teenager to your parents once you moved to Germany and you started to like rebel a little bit more? Oh, definitely. I think that's like the same for everybody. You know, like when you realize your parents are not all that like. Yeah. Yeah. People around the world are imitating your accent and it is one of the most popular sounds on TikTok right now.

Did you know that? Oh, really? No, I did not. So what do you think? Do I sound the way like they portrayed me? You know, I think a lot of people are talking about it, how like the show Inventing Anna on Netflix is dramatizing your accent. Yeah. What has been the wildest thing that you've heard about your accent um like when I when I heard Julia talking like me the first time I'm like oh my gosh do I sound this insufferable it's just so weird like hearing um yourself it's like the same when you just hear your voice being recorded it's like totally different from the way you hear yourself when you speak. I don't know. At this point, I'm just so used to it. I don't know.

And to everyone that thought it was fake. I mean, people just say so many things about me. I just don't care. It's just the way I speak. I don't know. I never put on any accents. It's just the way I talk. Did anybody ever hear me speak any different?

Then they should, like, come up with the evidence, whoever accused me of that. I want to see the proof. So then let's talk. Oh, no, 60 seconds left. Okay, when I close this out, I'm going to close the app. And then you'll just call me back. Okay, I'm going to hang up, and I will call you, like, in a few minutes. Okay, bye.

Okay, we're back. Hey. That was easier than the first time. We kind of got it figured out now. Well, now. Okay. So. I'm from 1994, babe.

Oh, is someone in there? It's okay. Oh, yeah, someone's on It's okay. Oh, yes. Someone's on the phone. Is it too loud? Yeah, we can wait like a second. It's okay. Because I kind of like made her go away.

No, you're fine. All right. Okay. So let's talk about your move to New York. Why did you move to New York why did you move to New York um well I kind of ended up having more friends in New York than I did like in Paris or in Europe or like anywhere else and I don't know I traveled quite a lot I never just like moved moved what did you love about New York um I just love the energy of the city.

And I just love, like, you can get anything done at any time. It's, like, very different from Europe. Because in Europe, like, everything's closed on Sundays. And everything's closed, like, after 5 or 6 p.m. You cannot, like, pay anybody enough to, like, get anything for you. And it's just different. Like, I grew up in Europe, so I guess it was exciting for me. It's always about getting something with you, Anna.

So you get to New York and you start going to all of these popular events and clubs. How did you introduce yourself to people? I don't remember. I guess Anna Delvey. So you would just say your name is Anna Delvey. What would you say? Where were you from and what was your job? Well, I was from Germany, which was true. And I didn't really like no one ever asked me about my job. I feel like that's so interesting because I lived in

New York. And I feel like all anyone cares about is asking, what do you do for a living? And why did you change your name to Anna Delvey uh for no reason really I don't know I really like came up with it randomly there's like no good story behind it I know like people always try to discover something and that's just not there I don't even know it just kind of doesn't really mean anything and it was just random you don't view Anna Delvey anna sorokin as two different like personalities absolutely not no i like it there's absolutely no difference because like in jail they always call me like by my government name which is sorokin it's like literally doesn't

feel like anything to me there's just nothing nothing in there you don't have like a personal attachment to your birth last name absolutely not I don't think I have attachment like to any countries any names it's just like not my thing I don't know this is not the way like I see myself or define myself do you ever wonder why I don't know it's hard to explain I was just always like this if you could try like how would you try to explain that to someone that was just always like this if you could try like how would you try to explain that to someone that doesn't understand like not identifying with anything I don't know I think it's like pretty small-minded when you're like oh if you see somebody oh this person is from

Germany or whatever this person is from Russia like let me and like I like them more than I like somebody who is I don't know from Japan I don't know, from Japan. I don't know. I think I was just always kept trying to keep like an open mind. Or maybe because I moved around so much. I don't feel like I'm from anywhere. I feel like I kind of belong nowhere. That sounds kind of lonely, Anna. Are you ever lonely?

But not like in a bad way. Wouldn't it be sad when you just like spend your whole life in one place? I don't think it's about spending your life in one place. I think it's about feeling like you belong to something and not feeling like you're wandering alone in this life. It can be pretty lonely. But, um, I guess like I choose people, um, like I choose people, the ones I choose to relate to. They don't have to be my neighbors or like I don't have to grow up with them for me to want to be friends with them.

How would you have described your friend group when you were living in New York? I think it's like what was mostly fashion and art people. There's like always somebody like people in New York they always travel somebody's like always gone for like a couple months and they come back so it's like like New York is pretty anonymous that's why it's just so bizarre to me it's like how these people like just assume they know so much about me it's like I didn't know anything about you either like neither do I care like nobody asks you it's like who are your parents and what do they do and how much money they make it's just outrageous so I was going through your Instagram

and back in 2013 and 2014 you were posting mostly like art and beautiful views and you would rarely post yourself your face was usually covered what was your strategy behind that I love that you like assume there's a strategy behind it um there was none I don't know I was just kind of like posting what I saw and um that was like the beginning of Instagram right right um and I guess I was just trying to I was like still hanging out around a lot of like art people. So I was just like posting a lot of art. I say strategy only because I think every single person on Instagram can admit like we are all trying to make people feel a certain way about us.

Did you feel pressured to keep up with the rich people in New York City? I mean, yeah, I guess. Like, who isn't? I always wanted to, like, get more stuff or, like, go there, eat at that restaurant. So I guess, yeah, it's fair to say that it was. Do you think you would have had the level of social success that you had in New York without social media? I already saw my social media is like a big part of anything to be honest um people just assumed I was trying to impress anybody with whatever 40 50 60 million like it's borderline poor in New York there's just so many rich people in there. Like you can't impress anybody. It's not even like you had that. So it's like Instagram was kind of like the path if someone's going to look you up from a vibe they got. It definitely reiterated like, oh,

I feel like this girl looks kind of wealthy, like art and exhibits and planes. So it like it does help the persona a little bit. I guess, yeah. But there was just like always, I don't know, thousands of people who did. So I never saw myself, oh, am I like the only person who posts something like that? There's just like always somebody with more followers, somebody better. So it's like I never saw myself, oh, my gosh, I'm kind of killing like at this. So. So you went to jail for crimes committed while you were trying to launch the Anna Delvey Foundation. If you could have selected three

people to be at the opening of your foundation, who would you have selected? Oh my gosh, this is such a hard question. Three people alive or dead alive right yeah I mean Anna Wintour that's for fashion and then somebody in tech like Steve Jobs if you take somebody who's dead do you care at all about like influencers like the Kardashians or no um I mean there are too many ofardashians so it wouldn't fit the free people but would you invite them all i mean sure i don't want to discriminate so okay 27 seconds left i'm gonna let's hop back off and then get back on okay okay i mean i started to, push her a little bit more. When I was like, well, you didn't have that money, so.

When she said I have no, what was that what she said? She was like, I have, I feel no connection to anything. Okay, here we go. Okay, let me record. Okay, let's get to the bottom of the rumor that you were a german heiress did you ever at any point in your life tell someone that you were going to be inheriting money no okay did you ever tell people that you were a german heiress no like no one introduces yourself like that like what kind of sentence is that but it's completely ridiculous where do you think that narrative started well i think um people

are kind of like put together the story after the dga's office released the um the original press release from when i got arraigned like in October 2017 I guess I like that would be my assumption but I don't know it's hard for me like to track this because I was just in jail that whole time right but even prior to you having anything to do with the law like how did people think that you were supporting this very expensive life in New York well I would like I cannot like testify to what people are assuming about me I don't know so when you're picking up tabs like no one's no one ever asked you like where do you get all this money from I mean I don't know what's doing like anything so super

crazy I feel like there's just people who are like spending who were spending way more money than i did i feel like going to a hotel and spending 63 000 like that's kind of a lot anna yeah well that was not like a daily basis that was just like a one-time thing but even living in a hotel that's that's in new york city that's a lot of fucking money i actually don't feel that way because i know so many people who live in a York City that's a lot of fucking money I actually don't feel that way because I know so many people who live in a hotel and it's actually cheaper than like renting an apartment where you have to commit for like a whole year and you can't travel did you choose to live in a hotel because in New York City like you have to show your finances if you're gonna get a lease and like that would have been hard well I just didn't want to like commit for a year

because i knew i was not going to be in one place for one year like even even because of my visa because i had to leave all the time and i just didn't want to like yeah being just stuck in one place so you think that everyone around you just assumed this girl's really rich we don't know where she has this money and you never explained where you got all the money from i mean i never asked anybody where they get their money from so like i never wondered about how anybody's paying for their bill so i just think people would be like right same way i really don't care yeah no your new york experience is very different than mine so no one ever asked you point blank about how you had any money. No, absolutely not.

I guess, like, maybe you'll have, like, you'll have a different friend circle. Oh. I can't imagine. Or, like, the people, I remember people, like, being pretty secretive. I don't know. It's just nobody's business. I know people who, like, still, I don't know it's just nobody's business I know people who like still I don't know their husband is paying um they like whatever disposal support and like some of the things you just don't want to be vocal about and um

but see even you just knew they were getting their payment from their partner like you kind of still know it's shocking that no one was ever like where the fuck are you getting this shit Anna well nobody was asking me that to my face how do you think though this whole narrative that you did have all this money, like, how do you think that benefited your life? I guess it's just easier, like, to ask somebody, I don't know, for 20 million. So it was easier for you to walk into a room and ask for more money because people assumed you had a lot of money? I guess. Yeah. Other than changing your name, what about your life when you were living in New York? Did you lie about, did you lie about like your family's background

or wealth or how much money you had? Um, I guess I did. I mean, I cannot like tell an exact instance, but I'm sure, but all of that, I never like told any senseless lies unless it were like a bank so the purpose of you lying though was to get something that would benefit you definitely yes it's like if I were just to meet I don't know like some girl in a social situation like I really don't care what someone thought first of all it's none of their business um second of all there's nothing you can do for me you just like walked through these fucking doors into some of the world's largest financial establishments asked for money and they gave it to you when you would walk into these rooms with these men Anna like what was your vibe like were you super outspoken and loud and

confident or were you kind of coy about it? And you kind of let like the accent and the mystery speak for itself. I don't even know. I think I'm like the same. I am right now with you. I don't know. There's just like no other mode. I'm not like a performer. You are. You're very confusing really like you just yeah there's just nothing else behind this I don't know nothing else behind it Anna absolutely nothing is behind this yeah but like okay so let's pretend we're in the room with you so you're saying you would kind of just do this like your vibe is just chill and you're just pitching them your vision take it or leave it um yeah and I would I would always kind of show up under dress because I felt like if I were to like show up um like I don't know in heels or like I don't know with some kind of like I don't know like with a tight dress

um I gave him like this I don't give a fuck vibe which was like pretty much accurate because if it wouldn't be them there would be somebody else because in the end they are like all disposable there's just so many financial institutions in new york so you purposely would dress not as nice because you thought it would insinuate what? Like, I didn't really care much to impress them. And they should be the ones trying to impress me. I'm calling you right back. Okay, okay. Okay, now we're fucking getting into it.

Oh, shit. Do not disturb. We're back. Yes. Okay, so we were just talking about your, you would dress really raggedy. You are so confident, but we're all human. Have you ever felt insecurities? I feel insecurities, like, all the time.

What are some of your insecurities? I don't know, everything. I'm like, I feel like I'm more paranoid than I ever was and just about like things going bad I'm just everything so try to explain that oh I don't know it's just like now I feel like I'm at the at the mercy of like public opinion and um i'm trying to like stay away from seeing myself the way other people see me but it's just really hard and i feel like my case is just like being thrown into my face every day there's no way that you know like for some people they commit a crime and they go to jail and like they are out and that's it they have like a way to move on and to forget

about it and not having to deal with it i don't like having a felony on your record like it will never be like that for me just never ever in my life like it will always follow me in one in some way so um i've been getting back to your question about insecurities it's just everything and it's like i'm so scared to like kind of suck up again and for everybody to say oh she was a fraud all along and we knew that and like why would anybody give her a chance so that's always there um yeah just things like that you're choosing to do interviews is there an angle you're trying to take so that people can get to know you more? I mean, why not?

But I'm also writing a book and I'm working on my own podcast. Who is your dream podcast guest? Who is my dream podcast guest? Oh my gosh, I have so many. Cyrus Vance. I'd love to speak to him. him the prosecutor he'd never go for it i was like you know like to my prosecutors i would love to speak to them it's just like i don't know don't you want to like find out why why a person who like hates you i don't i wouldn't

say like the word hates you but like who has so much negative stuff um on you or like whose job it was to like kind of um get you like imprison you like right just what they really think of you it's like you know the same way like you um engage with your haters on like social media right it's like can you tell me why you hate me like i mean i think it's a little different because i think they probably just wanted to like correctly punish you from the crimes you committed. It's America. There are laws, you know. So one of your iconic trademarks was tipping $100 bills everywhere to everyone. As someone attempting to start a business, why did you so freely give away your money? So like if I live in a hotel and like there's somebody who always helps me with something like it's totally okay for me to like tip them a couple hundred

every now and then I did not just like throw hundred dollar bills or like random people and I don't know I just like I had so many people in service like which is so nice to me and like they literally make all the difference so do you think that you'll continue doing that once you are free I feel like now I have to Anna you gotta protect your money girl everyone's gonna keep trying to wait on you anytime they see you at a restaurant she's keeping the tradition alive I feel like I can't disappoint you should worry about your bank account okay so have you ever admitted to committing any crimes no i went on trial so i never pled guilty sorry the person is just so loud okay let me call you back all right okay

okay okay bye it's gonna be like 15 minutes or something it's okay it's okay don't worry okay sure your phone what kind of phone do you have oh my gosh okay dude that's so bad i had to it was too it's so loud i think the issue is that she's having this awakening that like it was at least some insight the fact that she said i don't want to come out and people be like oh she like she's her ego is now like oh i don't want people to think like oh it was a flop like she's not and it's like okay is it is it quiet now yes well um everybody's gone so okay so what was going through your head that first night that you spent in jail um god i don't even know it was kind of terrifying i like i blocked it off it was just awful and there were like so many people there there were, like, so many people there. There were, like, a lot of people for DUIs, a lot of, like, sex workers.

It was interesting. If you had been granted bail, where would you have gotten the money? I wouldn't find a way. If you weren't yourself and you knew about Annana delvey would you loan anna delvey money um i would definitely because like i felt like i would definitely go out of my way to pay somebody back but did you ever pay rachel back um well she got paid back from Amex and I'm not allowed to reach out to her. I put it out there. If she feels like I owe her any money, she knows ways to reach me. So what was it like to face Rachel for the first time in court? I was great. It was very exciting. She did not

look my way a single time um apart from like whether I have to identify you is like if I'm the person that was the only time she looked my way which was I guess telling if uh you feel so defrauded and if you're so righteous like wouldn't you want to like look your abuser quote unquote or whatever the people are called did you just stare at her the whole time absolutely yes do you ever feel any guilt that rachel was left with that 63 000 tab before amex obviously refunded her i mean i was always saying that it was a really unfortunate situation and was like i never said like I'm so awesome and I did nothing wrong it was just like a really unfortunate situation and I did let her pay it

and I knew there was a chance I could not repay her but like for me at that point was like I was going to go through with my project and everything was going to work out so for me to say to tell Rachel it's like oh hey maybe there is a chance I'm not going to pay you back it would be the same for me as to admit like my project is not going to work out it would be equal admitting like failure on a bigger scale you know it was like very psychological for me you know like I never invited her on this vacation thinking oh maybe Rachel's going to pick up the tab. If you could say anything to Rachel right now, what do you what would you say? Oh, gosh, I don't know.

Well, I hope she makes the best out of the moment. I don't know. I really don't like I don't mean I try like not to think of her. How do you feel about her new book I don't feel any kind of way because I'll never read it I've heard it's pretty bad so I haven't read it so I can't I can't attest to that either um what is your current relationship with your parents uh I talk to them a couple times a week what do you guys talk about just like i kind of give them an update what's going on with me um i'd say like they're letting

me do my thing they just basically said or like it's not you're not it's not because of us that you're there and like you chose to like live in New York and do all these things um but they are supportive it's like they send me things or like whenever I need anything they like whatever like send me money or um like books and magazines so they're supportive in that way time is up okay wait you can call me right back okay I'll be right here um well I'm about to hit her with uh oh well your dad said this about you okay this is the only other thing you keep saying like I was gonna pay it all back like unfortunately Anna like that's not the way the world works and you keep you keep saying that so

um oh shit okay let me just record okay so I was just asking, oh, about your parents and your relationship. Do you have a good relationship with your brother? Yeah, I guess. He's, like, way younger. He's, like, 18 now. So I never really had, like, much in common with him because of our, like, huge age difference. But, yeah. Has everything that's been happening with you at

all like affect his social life or anything um a little bit yeah I guess he like kind of care a bit less like he's like a bit older now but um I know like teachers know that I'm his sister definitely they used to like ask him if that's if he's my brother so how does that make you feel um I don't know I don't know like I'm not sure if that's negative or positive so it's hard to say I mean what do you think would be positive the teachers would think positively like what would that look like i mean it's hard to spin like crimes in positive way i mean as long as just it's just not negative i don't know do you think there's any way it wouldn't be negative i haven't spoken to him recently to be honest okay so i don't know your father was quoted in a newspaper saying naturally we're very worried about her she has such a selfish character we can't do

anything about it we gave her a normal upbringing is it true that your parents gave you a normal upbringing i mean if they think so do you think so I mean I wasn't crazy I would say yeah do you think you have a selfish character like your dad explained I guess if he says so I don't know I try not to be selfish but my like it's just kind of the thing that my parents always say like I'm so whatever I try to do is, like, selfish, so. How do you feel hearing that insult from your dad where he's, like, telling that to, like, a public magazine? It doesn't feel any kind of way because he just would tell that to me in my face every other day. So it's not surprising.

Does it feel hurtful? No. My dad is, like, very sarcastic. And I guess he just doesn't know how to, like, he doesn't speak to media, like, on a daily basis. So he was being sarcastic. I hope he was, yeah. Did you ever ask him, like like not to speak to the media no they're actually reluctant to speak to the media there's just so many people who like want

to interview them and they refuse if anything like i have whatever my own show with yodem like i'll have to convince them to speak to them so I don't see them going out of their way speaking to the media yeah they should come on call her daddy we can have a whole family reunion can you imagine um okay so if you do get deported back to Germany how do you envision your life uh well hopefully that won't happen um I mean i can go anywhere else in the world it's not like i have to stay in germany i would be able to go like anywhere i want but back to the states are you lonely now um i mean definitely in a way i am um i like i try to keep myself busy, but it's just not the same as being around friends or just being around people I choose to be around because I'm stuck in here.

So, yeah. I'm very introverted, I think. So, it's like, if anything, it's by choice. Okay. If I ever felt lonely, yeah. Who knows the real Anna best? I guess, like, different people who, like, know different bits and pieces. So, which is, like, nobody really around me who would have, like, the whole picture.

It's hard to say. So, you have no close, like, friends that really know you? I do. Yeah. But it's like my friendships. So it's like I have friends who are like they are there like during my free time, but they don't really know what's going on. Like with the projects I'm working with, you know, they just like don't really know the full picture so I guess it would be fair to say nobody like really knows everything about me I think there's a wi-fi issue we're frozen um maybe let's just cancel out hello hi hi okay so we were talking about your friend groups and you kind of mentioned, you feel like no one really knows the real Anna. And do you think that you, like, purposefully maybe would, like, compartmentalize your life a little bit so that no one can really know the real you?

I guess it just, like, ended up being like like that but it was never on purpose I feel like a lot of people do that it's just like you kind of have family and then I don't know you have like people who just don't know about all the areas of your life so for me to say somebody just knows everything about me would be to assume it's like somebody who just spends the whole day with me or like also works with me and lives with me i feel like very few people can say that i mean like parents my parents know me in like one way but they have not been around the past year so they cannot really say like what i'm doing in new york or like my friends like everybody just has different parts of information, I guess. Do you consider yourself a con artist?

Absolutely not. To people that are saying you are, what do you think is the difference between you and a con artist? Well, I never, like, intended permanently to permanently harm anybody. You know? I literally cannot come up, like, with a single example where I'm like yeah let me fuck this person over and they'll never see like their money ever again so so you think like in the grand scheme of things it was all with good intention what you were doing yes I just like didn't choose the best means to go about it. Who has hurt you in your life?

I don't know. We're having Wi-Fi issues. I know. It's just like this is what it starts doing. It's okay. Okay. Okay. I know. It's just like this is what it starts doing. It's okay. I'm doing a couple calls. Okay. So to finish the question, I was asking you just like who has hurt you in your life?

I don't know. Never complain, never explain. Is that a saying you live by? I have to, yes. Are you worried people aren't going to think you're smart because you got caught? If somebody thinks that way, I don't care because my goal was never to get away or, like, not to get caught. Okay. I even, like, hear people in jail saying, oh, like, you're not that good of a criminal because you didn't get caught. So okay. Um, something even like hear people in jail saying, Oh, I have like,

you're not that good of a criminal because you didn't get caught. It's like I never tried to be that way. So it doesn't hurt me in any way. So it doesn't it doesn't hurt your ego. Absolutely not. Because that was never my goal. I was never like, hiding from the police and then like was surprised I got arrested so it was none of that so I thought like I'll just go back to New York and I'll just like resolve it with my lawyer I just did not like think that would be so violent about it like I just didn't know like they were so they were like after me were you embarrassed at all um sure I guess yeah i mean it's not pleasant getting arrested definitely so i'm assuming you haven't watched inventing anna um no so i watched like beats and pisses but i didn't

watch the whole thing okay so the show is all about anna del. And in every single episode, the title card that reads is every episode. It says this whole story is completely true, except for all the parts that are totally made up. And so everyone watching it, we don't know what is real and what is made up. And so I wanted to get clarification from the woman herself. Here is an example. In episode eight, they show you intentionally setting yourself up to overdose. But right before you do, you call room service so they will come up before you die. And they then show you at Cedars-Sinai in the hospital on a 24-hour psych evaluation did this actually happen no absolutely not no what kind of drugs was i supposed to be

i'm not sure so you never attempted suicide no so you're currently waiting to find out if you will be deported do you have any indication of how long you have to wait until they make the decision uh well i do i just fired my lawyers and i got somebody new so um hopefully they will get me out of jail so why did you fire your lawyers because they weren't adequate so they just weren't getting you an answer so do you have any timeline like is it going to be more like years months like do you have any idea oh well no it's definitely not going to be years but I'm sure it's going to be a couple more weeks so um what do you think the chances are of you staying in america i don't even want to like say anything just we'll see what's going to happen yeah are you interested in dating

uh sure when i'm out of jail um on february 20th 2021 you tweeted, willing to marry Kanye West for a U.S. green card. Would you date Kanye now that your friend Julia Fox has been there and done that? That's a tricky question. That was a joke, that tweet. I don't know. He doesn't seem to be getting the best reviews, so I don't know. That made me crack up. I will give you that.

Okay, years from now, Anna, what would you like to be remembered for? Well, definitely not for my crimes, hopefully. Well, I'm just trying to like to turn my story around and hopefully I'll be able to like create something good out of all the attention I'm just trying to like to turn my story around and hopefully I'll be able to like create something good out of all the attention I'm getting okay you can't say you don't know to this question why do you think people are so captivated by Anna Delvey gosh I really don't know because I'm just like being myself and it was never like something that I created and I'm

like oh this is how I did it and I knew this is it just was really a surprise to me that people would be like so interested in the way I went about the things because it just made so much sense to me and it's like comes really natural so this is what I'm trying to figure out I don't know I mean what's out there is like a caricature so it's not like I'm trying to figure out I don't know I mean what's out there is like a caricature so it's not like I'm trying not to see myself like as this person who's being like portrayed out there like it's not like I see it whatever is being written in the media it's like yeah that's me because I felt like I'm more complex. Right. So in the interview, you kept mentioning that you had a plan.

You were going to pay everyone back. But you also, obviously, you went to these banks under false pretense for whatever reason, and they thought you had this money. Do you now see where the intention of paying people back, that's just not how the world works? I mean, I do. I definitely do, yes. I do see how, like what I did wrong. But it's also,

so many people just do worse things. One of my last questions. Have you ever heard the phrase, what about-ism? Do you want me to give you the definition? Okay, it is the technique or practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counter-accusation or raising a different issue. Would you say what about-ism is your best friend?

Is that an accusation? Anna, I've never interviewed someone that said, I don't know more than you and then flipped it back on me. Have you had media training? No, no, it's all me. Oh god okay well i truly oh wait let me make sure this is recording oh my god i can't thank you enough for coming on call her daddy i know are you there i swear to fucking god if that last one didn't fucking record please fucking call back dude that's so fucking annoying to watch that just be the end okay guys well i'm currently waiting for her to call back i'm unsure

if anna's gonna call back because i think that last question may have pushed her over the edge but she's calling hi Anna hello this is a prepaid debit call from Anna an inmate at the Orange County gym to accept this call press zero to refuse this call, press 0. To refuse this call, hang up or press 1. This call is from a corrections facility and is subject to monitoring and recording. Thank you for using Global Telelink. Hi, Anna.

It's not letting me call back anyone, and I can't call them. It just goes off at 10. I'm super sorry. Hi, Anna. No, don't worry. I just wanted to say thank you so much, and I really appreciate you coming on. So nice meeting you virtually. Wish I could have been in person, but maybe we'll meet in person one day. Well, you can get arrested. You can come here. Oh, my God.

Okay, Anna. Talk soon. Okay. All right. Bye-bye. Bye. Daddy gang. um daddy gang that is it for this week's fucking episode i don't know if i feel smarter or swindled i don't know but what i can say is i will see you fuckers next one say goodbye holy shit