Call Her Daddy - Brittany Snow: Stop Falling in Love with Potential

Episode Date: March 27, 2024

Join Alex in the studio for a sit down interview with Brittany Snow. Brittany talks about being the “camp counselor” in her friend group and how she’s gotten comfortable spending more time alone. She reminisces on some of her most iconic movies and tells the story of how her role in John Tucker Must Die inspired her to get back at an ex. Brittany also talks about directing her first movie and opens up about how the film was inspired by her own battle with body image. She gets real about all the ways an eating disorder affected her daily life, dating, and sex. Brittany reveals her rock bottom moment and shares how much better she is doing today. Then, Alex and Brittany talk all about codependent relationships, the current state of Brittany’s love life, and how she really felt watching her divorce play out so publicly.This episode includes discussion of disordered eating and suicidal ideation. Please keep this in mind when deciding if, how and when you’ll listen. For resources on these topics, visit spotify.com/resources.

what is up daddy gang it is your founding father alex cooper with call her britney snow welcome to call her daddy i'm so excited to be here i am so happy we are doing this i damned britney like how long ago a year ago i think it was a year ago it well I mean you really made me what work for it I remember well I wasn't ready to to be very public about anything really I get it um and so I remember opening up the dm and being like oh my god Alex and then being like no just just not gonna do that so um it was it took a while for me to come around. Well, I'm so happy you came around because I have been, wow, I've been thinking about you for a year in the least creepy way.

It can be creepy. And now you're here. In my merch and I fucking love it. You look amazing. I didn't even realize how blue your eyes are until I'm staring at you with this blue one and it is like fucking insane. I'm going to wear it all the time. You look great.

You can keep it. You've been in the industry for over three decades. What is the most like un-Hollywood thing about you? That I've been in this business for three decades and I have absolutely no chill, no cool, no tact, no I do everything wrong. I am incredibly, incredibly awkward in front of most people. And I have this thing that I speak without thinking. And so just like in this podcast, I'm going to say something that I will regret. That's good for me, though. That's good for me.

Not for you. No, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. No, no, it's going to be great. It's great for everyone because I think people instantly feel like, oh, this girl is an idiot. So I feel so much better about myself. Most people like that i meet that are fancy and stuff like that i think they feel better that someone is bumbling and and is somehow invited to

the party i think it makes you more likable because i feel like everyone in hollywood has like a couple sticks up their butthole and you're just kind of like oh no i'm just gonna be like myself and like even if you think i'm wild and insane like it's okay like I'm right here wild I'll take um yeah Brittany Snow she's like crazy party girl um no but yeah I think after a while there was no um going around it there was no way that I could be anything else so I might as well just lean into it a little bit because it was so much more painful for me to try to be stoic and classy and try to be you know I guess with the stick yeah I don't even know where you get the stick but I couldn't find one and so it just it never went up there I am gonna say I think I didn't know you were like this fun and bubbly like I know not to say I didn't think you were gonna

I am like oh you're gonna be a weirdo I just I genuinely thought like you are like a very like prestigious actress you're you know you are like you've been in fucking everything the pacifier with Vin Diesel that's the one that really sealed the deal okay but like I didn't know what to expect and you I'm sitting across from you and I said it before we started filming like I feel like you're my friend from like childhood that you're just like a very you have a great energy thanks I need this pump up before I start every interview you're amazing queen slay bitch let's go how would your friends describe you i think the first word they would they would probably say sensitive um empathetic and probably passionate there's no way that anybody can guess what I'm, like what I'm thinking. You know, I'm, it's always on my, my heart is on my sleeve, shoulder, whatever. It's out there. And I think that people either love that or hate that about me because I, I'll always

say what's on my mind a little bit because I'm just too sensitive not to. I love that. I appreciate that. What role do you think you play in your friend group? I'm a little bit of the camp counselor in a way where I'm like, everyone together, we're going out to dinner and we're going to like it and we're all going to wear these cute outfits. And everyone's like, you know, stop. We have jobs and husbands and you don't.

And I think also I am definitely the one that probably I need the most connection, I guess. I'm constantly in connection with my best friends. I want to hang out all the time. But lately, I think in the past year, I've gotten really good at being alone, which has not been my MO at all. Instead of being anxious about being alone, I'm actually very, very secure in it, which is nice. That's growth. And that is the best feeling when you can get to that point. So I'm really happy for you. But I love being around my friends and doing activities. You're like, answer my text, bitch. Like, where the fuck have you guys been? Let's go to dinner tonight, okay?

Let's talk about a couple of the movies that you've starred in that are so iconic, and then we're going to get to a new film. But first, Pitch Perfect. Obviously, I have to ask about it. It is like forever just the best, best, best movie series. Can you talk to me? Obviously, you had some of the funniest people on set with you. Is there any like incredible, hilarious memory that you have from that movie that just comes to your mind when you can like tell us a little story? I mean, all those girls are some of my best friends in some way. We also became such a family because when you're doing a movie with so much rehearsal time and then you also have to

shoot after that you're there wherever our location was for about four to five months and um we became really really close and all of us are very uh somewhat similar to our characters in in different ways i won't give away how because that's blowing some of them up but um but i think that we all feel very connected to our roles in that group and how it's showcased in the movies so i guess to answer your question about funny moments um i mean anything that rebel does is funny when i interviewed her and she was doing an impression of adam um divine i was like i think i actually for the first time just physically peed my pants in the middle of an interview her doing the impression of him and then i interviewed adam and he tried to imitate rebel and that was a fucking disaster sorry adam but like and the two of their dynamic

it is like you could just watch it forever it's hilarious and i think that that was the cool thing about all of our dynamics on the movie is that we did constantly we got along so well but we constantly made fun of each other which was sort of a camaraderie that we needed because going into those movies we had no idea that they were going to become what they became so we had a lot of fun poking fun at the fact that like are we really making this type of movie right and are people gonna like it i bet it didn't even sometimes feel like work because you're like we're just like half the time i'm sure there's some people improvising and it's just like fun so john tucker must die i this movie i feel like we just have to i don't know who hasn't seen it but to

anyone that hasn't seen it, but to anyone that hasn't seen it, first of all, I think this changed my life. It really formed me as a woman. I remember being young and being like, never trust a man, which I'm like, I learned so much from that movie. If you can describe to people who haven't somehow watched it because they live under rock, can you describe like the premise of it? Sure. So John Tucker must die um which is hilarious because he doesn't die we don't kill him so anyone who wants to know if it's a horror or something or a thriller in any way um it's just about this guy who is the high school man and he's dating a bunch of girls at the same time as you do in high school not anymore and um and all of us are in different cliques well i'm not why

did i just put myself in there i'm not in the cliques i'm not dating him all of them are in different cliques and they all somehow get together by circumstance and find out that they're all dating him at the same time so then i devise a plan for them all to get back at him and teach him a lesson it is like no because honestly it's like something i would have done in high school like this is literally me i think that's probably why i connected with it i'm like i would be like the mastermind that's like listen to me this is how we're taking this man down this is how we're gonna kill him okay figuratively not literally um what is the pettiest thing you or a friend has done to get back at a guy that you've broken up with well to be to be completely fair and this is this sounds so lame okay because i had just done john tucker

must die um and while i was shooting that movie my boyfriend at the time who was the first love of mine um and i and i still have such fond memories for him but at the time we were on like a break ross rachel vibe and um he was dating this other girl and i found out about it and so me and her right after john tecker must die because i don't have any good ideas of my own show up at his house together no yeah and he opens the door and i remember saying to him i think you owe us an explanation or something like that. You really took your character too far. Yeah. You were like, let me like really like method act right now.

I'm like, let me just like get into character. Here we go. Oh my God. What was his reaction? I remember him being shocked, but it didn't really help or work or anything. And then I remember saying bye to her and being like, that was weird, right? Like, why did we do that we're like what was the plan like what did you want him to say what after was going to happen i don't know

what was the goal honestly when you are like young and in love you do some crazy fucking shit oh yeah there were there were things that i definitely did even up to the probably the point where i was i think 27 is when i i got my shit together a little bit. But until then, I look back and I am traumatized. Yeah, that's actually a really good age, I would say. I feel like at 27, I really started to, like, refine my craft. You know, like, just tweak it a little bit so that if someone told the story of me it wasn't giving she's crazy it was giving you know she's passionate passionate but it's not level of crazy that i used to be unhinged comes

before 27 yes not after not after anyone that's 28 right now losing their shit stalking their just keep going like maybe put your benchmark at 30 you're gonna be fine now on to your new movie this is the first movie that you have written and directed called parachute yeah first of all just congratulations thank you that is so incredible as someone that's been in the industry to take this leap and also just i love it like as a woman like showing people like you can fucking do everything you can be in front of the camera you can be behind the camera. So congratulations. Thanks. You've said that we all have our own parachutes or things we use to avoid addressing our feelings or confronting difficult situations. In your own life, what hardships have you tried to run from? Okay, let's do it, baby. Here we go. Well, I think, you know, my naming

of the movie, it being Parachute, is that I really do think we're all trying to lessen the fall, as cheesy as that sounds, lessen the fall of just being with ourselves and feeling our feelings. I think now more than ever, it's we go on Instagram or we go on TikTok or whatever and we scroll to numb the pain of just being with our own feelings. Or we're trying to hit a dopamine sort of like hit in a way to make us sort of ride the wave to the next moment. And I think that comes in all sorts of facets, but I think that they're very intertwined and can be subbed out for each other with social media, sex, alcohol, all these different ways that we're trying to lessen being with ourselves. And I think for me, I came from being a child actor that was very based in growing up with validation coming from achievement and coming from you did

really well on this, you get a reward, not only from my parents, but from just people on set or things in general. And so I started to become really addicted and connected to the feeling of needing to get that hit. And when I wasn't, I didn't feel like myself. And so I think probably I would have been addicted to something. It just so happened that I went on a diet before someone gave me drugs. I've never had a problem with drugs, but I think if someone would have given me drugs, it just one is the one is the before the other. And so I think what I was always trying to run from was the just normalcy of just being. Yeah.

And not having to achieve anything. You're so right. How many things we do to distract ourselves from being able to sit in silence and be okay with like, what's going on? Why are you sad? What happened in your childhood why are you like that and everyone's like no quick social media oh my god let me watch this youtube video oh my god let me watch this person and like it's just it's never ending the main character in the movie deals with body dysmorphia and eating disorder and I like you just kind of

opened up about like I know you've struggled with that in the past. That's why you wrote this movie. When you were younger, how would you describe your relationship to food? It was very based on connection to achievement, which is a weird thing to say, I guess, but I got a milkshake if I did well on an audition and I wouldn't get a milkshake if I didn't do well. And I think a lot of parents do this unknowingly in terms of you do well in your soccer game, we go out for, you know, cheeseburgers or if you lost, like we need to go practice more. And so I think my reward center got all mixed up. Then couple that with the terrible amount of, you know, societal norms of how you look at yourself being a woman. I think that was sort of like a culmination that that was hard. And I think I had to redefine how food was not evil. And it was also not something to be earned. Yeah, because like, I'm curious,

did you have anyone in the industry ever make comments about your body? Or was this a very personal, internal thing you were struggling with? There was a movie that I had just gotten help. I'm very young at this point. But I had just gotten help and I gained a bunch of weight during that time. And it was half because I was healthy and half because I didn't know how to balance. And I think a huge part of my recovery has been balance. But I got on set the first day on set. They said, you're too big.

We need you to lose weight. And so I went on. They put me on a diet. They got me a nutritionist. They got me a trainer. And the other people in the movie got to go to set normal hours. But I had to work with a trainer at like 5 o'clock in the morning. And it sort of set up this belief system I think that it doesn't really matter if you're – this is a long time ago.

It doesn't really matter if you're healthy. It matters what they're going to see. But do you remember like sitting in that room when you had just gone through recovery, you're like feeling better about yourself and then you sit down and they say that to you? Like what did you feel when they immediately said that to you? Do you remember? Yes. This is how fucked up it was. I thought they're right. Yeah. Which now makes me want to cry because I think there's no way that that was correct but I think I was I'm so hard on myself and so I'm and I wanted to be great and sexy and

and beautiful that I thought okay this is a goal for me to to get right it's also just so sad as women like you can do so much work but it's like we're fighting against a system that is conditioned us since the beginning days to like believe like there is this one body standard that is you will get treated differently you will get different jobs if you look this way like if you're thin you get xyz and so like as much work as you can do on yourself and like you said feel healthy the minute someone looks at you and makes a comment especially to a woman about her body it is so fucking hard for us to not immediately internalize it and be like i gotta get skinnier like it's you can do so much fucking work but it's it's also just so fucked up how people feel so comfortable to even say that but at the end of the day it's like oh yeah they think they know

they're gonna make more money if you look a certain at the end of the day, it's like, oh yeah, they think they know they're going to make more money if you look a certain way. And so it's just like, it's a societal thing. It's in the workplace. It's in every sort of, it's on social media, to be honest, the most, is that this is the norm and that we need to adhere to the norm. But what, the norm is ever changing

and so different person to person. So true. So I don't know. When you look back, I'm curious, like, I remember thinking that I was obsessing about something that other people could kind of take or leave. And as a, as a teenager, it became such a, an obsession, which now I really understand the obsession of that was a way to leave my body. So I wasn't even connecting to this thing. I thought I was solving, I was actually disassociating. I was, I was becoming obsessed with something that was sort of this goal over here. And I think a lot of addicts in general become connected to the obsessing more than they become – I mean, that's a generality that I don't know. I'm not a doctor. But I do think that that's a part of it.

And so when I was a teenager, I would collect magazines and, you know, fitness magazines and all these different things to try to get there. And my friends would look at them and think, Leonardo DiCaprio is not in this magazine. Like, why are we reading this? Like, Brittany, where is Brad Pitt? We want the fallout of Leo to go up on the wall. And you're like, no, look at this woman. Yeah. Yeah. Got it. And I think that was the first time I was like, oh, why am I so into this? What is this going to solve for me? But I think, um, I think it was useful in a way. And I, I, I talk about this with my charity September letters. There was there was an article in a magazine, in a fitness magazine, intermixed with all of the do this in Pilates and eat this. There was a story about a girl

with an eating disorder and she was sort of explaining her OCD with the obsession of it. And I ripped out that magazine article and I thought, this girl has what I have she's doing the same thing so I put it in my back pocket and I wanted to keep it as a as a way of a hope that there was something and someone out there that had the same thing that I did and then later it kind of came full circle because I did a magazine article for people and I shared my story and I talked about how I found that magazine article and there was a girl at a coffee shop who was behind me and she started crying. And I turned around and she pulled out my magazine article from her back pocket. And she was like, I carry this around as something – as an example of hope that I can get better. And I was like, okay, well.

I did it. Maybe maybe not did it but you know it mattered those of course no like you did something that ended up how you felt about the magazine that you first saw it ended you ended up doing this same exact thing to affect another woman which I think is so beautiful and it's so sad because I do believe there is good in social media in us doing this like Like, yeah, I can't imagine so many people are going to listen to this. And so many women are like, oh, my God, I needed this episode. I've been doing this. I like I think there's so much positivity that can come. But unfortunately, I do think there's more negativity because of how oversaturated and

over comfortable I feel like people have gotten on the internet to just like sling shit out that's just like we're not thinking before we post and I think it's really harmful what was your like rock bottom moment where you realized like I need to get help I well it's in parachute it's what it's what parachutes about the movie and although it became many people's stories in this way, there was a moment that I – I mean, people are going to see the movie, so I guess I should get comfortable talking about it. But I thought that it would be better – this is a lot for Call Her Daddy. This is trigger warning all the way, you know, to hell. But what I tried to encapsulate with the images in it as well is that I don't even think sometimes it's, it's about the, the act of wanting to, to hurt yourself as much

as you just want your brain to stop. And I just wanted my brain to stop. And so, um, I think that at that moment there was a, there was a thing that happened to my brain that said, yeah, but it'll be okay if you're skinny. And that was the moment I said, no more. No more is that going to be the thing that solves anything anymore. But this is not just me. I would be hard pressed to find many people who have been through something like this that haven't had a moment like that or felt

like that was an answer and it's not and there are so many people that have gotten through it um and i i sound like i'm being really dramatic and i'm hoping that i'm not but i think that hopefully i can be an example that it does get better i hope i can like ease your mind for a minute right now like first of all this is not too dramatic or heavy for Call Her Daddy. This is like the exact place we should have this conversation because of how many women listen to this podcast and how many women look up to you and you have a voice and you do have a platform and you're so talented and to put your experiences into a movie that so many people are going to be able to watch and connect to. full stop this is not dramatic this is real life and you experience this yeah

and also i think it's so incredible to talk about this so someone watching this is going to be where you were how many years ago and be like wait maybe tonight I don't have to harm myself. Maybe I should go to someone and ask for help. That's what this is about, right? I think so. And I think that's what I guess people keep asking me. Why did I do the movie? Why did I make the movie? And I think because I didn't have a movie like that when I was going through it.

And I didn't even think what I was doing was necessarily – I thought I was very alone in it. So if that helps, if this helps, people really look up to you. And so I just hope that, yeah, there is some – not that I'm some martyr either. Like I don't have all the answers and I don't have a guidebook, but I definitely know that it's possible. What do you think is the biggest misconception people have about eating disorders and body dysmorphia and body image issues? That it's self-indulgent or vain or about food. It's not about food. It's not about how you look. I mean, topically maybe, but I think underneath it's really about an obsession of trying to disassociate and not be with yourself, with actually like in your body. It's better to just kind of obsess about something else and the achievement and the dopamine hit you get by losing weight or something like that.

That's so much more of the intricacy than it is about just not eating that's what is frustrating it's like when people you're so right think it's vain whatever it is it's all a control mechanism like you're saying because you have a lack of control in your life and inside of you where you're trying to dissociate so it's the one thing that you're like i can handle this here and you don't have to think about what's going on upstairs like you said this movie is about talking about these distractions sure to some people it's food to other people like you said it's sex it's alcohol it's drugs um it's hurting ourselves in some capacity to not feel what we're actually going through. Or even like lesser known ones like gossiping or just being about drama or just being the person that's in everyone's business. I mean,

you're sort of doing these emotionally unavailable things because you can't just sit with yourself. So it's better to go over here, go over here. And I think that a lot of people get that misconstrued because they think, oh, eating disorders are one thing. Alcoholism is one thing. And they're really quite similar. They're just using a different mechanism. When I mentioned, like, obviously recovery is not just this, like, clear path. Like, where are you at in your journey? I mean, I'm better than I ever have been, which I think is such a marking of how I was able to do this movie and write about myself and have this conversation.

I think I have a lot of perspective and I'm head that I'm like, hey, girl, where you been? That started, you know, I think probably 10 years ago that I pretty much always see the different perspective and things, which is huge. Something terrible will happen and another voice in my head will come in and be like, well, let's think about this from another perspective. You know, maybe it wasn't that. It was this. I don't really have black and white thinking anymore. I have very gray thinking, which is such a huge marking of a good recovery,

I think. And not in like a Pollyanna way either. I just kind of see the good in things a lot. It's amazing. How did your relationship with your body impact how you approached sex in your life? That is a great question and so layered because I think in my earlier years, it was difficult to be in my body. And I bless my ex-boyfriends when I was in my early 20s before recovery, truly bless them because it was really hard for me to understand sex in the way that was healthy because I had to actually be in my body and I was letting people see me. And that was really hard for me. And then more and more, and especially now, I have so much recovery and autonomy and confidence in my body now that I've never had before. I mean, I was naked an ex. So if that

says anything. Right. But that's like a huge step, I feel like, probably for you, right? That's why I took it, to be honest. I was scared shit shitless but I think it was such a such a goal for me and I hate to use the word goal since I've I've dragged that through the mud this whole podcast but but but I what I wanted to do was be able to have that sort of confidence of playing a character that was brazen in her body and and bold and it not get into my head yeah and that and yeah it was it was really about balance you did it I did it what kind of guys growing up and during this time of your life like were you going after who were you pursuing Brittany what were you up to over there have you seen a side by side of all my exes? Because I have. I have too.

Why don't you explain it to people that haven't? Well, you can go on Google and I definitely have a type. God bless me, Brittany, for when you were young. I think, you know, I've had a lot of therapy. Okay. And I think that I was going after people that sort of made sense in my mind and that were lovely and very kind to me. And I've never dated anybody who was like an asshole, which I know seems weird when you look at my dating history. But they weren't. They were all lovely um but I think I went for a type of guy that made my the things that I thought I was lacking make

sense if that makes sense so trying to like almost fill the gaps of where you were like I'm not feeling great about this but they bring this to my life so they feel that for me exactly but when we get into therapy as we know Brittany it, no, you've got to be whole on your own because then you'll pick a complete different partner. Completely different. Because no one will have to fill any gaps. They can be an individual. You can be an individual. Yeah. And then you just come together. Exactly. Okay. Fascinating. I know a huge theme also in this movie is codependent relationships. Have you ever been in one? it's about the movie is about what really happened i i got into a codependent relationship with with a guy who um is still a

friend of mine and i think it was it was i think all relationships, especially before therapy, are sort of these microcosms of what you dealt with in childhood because it feels like home. And so it feels like, oh, that thing that I was missing from my mom or dad, I'm going to somehow recreate in a relationship. And I know I'm not talking about anything that people don't know. But I do think it's really interesting with codependency because I never had someone really unconditionally take care of me in that way. And so I got addicted to someone saving me a little bit. And I thought that that was love. Can you talk about that? Like your childhood? What do you mean you weren't taken care of? I think I love my parents and my – and I won't even talk ill about them at all. But I think that it – and a lot of parents were like this in this generation too. It was very conditional.

Yep. It was very – I got, you know, an anxious attachment style for a good reason because I got a reward system, like I was saying. So I think that when I had someone who was just like, anything you do is great and I'm going to be there for you no matter what. If you fail, if you win, I mean, it was just like gold. Right. You're like, whoa. Yeah. I don't like have to do this and then if I don't do this, like get punished or I don't get attention or I don't wow that is interesting but then I started to it's it started become becoming very evident that um that it became codependent in a way of

of being addicted to that savior saved cycle um and and I think that was the relationship that got me into recovery yeah because i while you're saying that i'm thinking about it like it's so hard to spot but then when you're in a codependent relationship like all of a sudden you do eventually i feel like most people get to that point where like you feel like you've been saved the person's there and there's still this void and you're still like wait what like why am i not fulfilled why am i not happy it's like because a partner cannot actually not solve right what you're lacking and what you're missing you have to solve that and so it's a band-aid it feels good for a minute like you said they would come in you're like oh this is fucking good.

But really, it's just they're like covering the tracks of what your parents didn't give you. And then once they do that, then you're feeling cozy. And then you're like, wait, but I still am feeling kind of like shit on these days. And then you realize like it actually has nothing to do with the person across from you. Of course, a partner can influence how you feel about yourself. But when you're looking for someone to fill the gaps, once the gaps are all filled, then it's like, why do I still feel empty

in moments? Yeah. And no person can, they're all just going to bring out these things in you that you need to go and look at for yourself. Well, I do have to ask you. Okay, first of all, here we go. Let's do it. Here we go. Let's go. Well, first of all, are you single? First of all, are you single yes i am i am wait that was kind of like i am you are yeah but are you like talking to people yeah yeah yeah because if you were like

single single you'd be like absolutely i. I saw a little like, yeah. So you're dating. Yeah. I've been, let's use air quotes here. Yes. Single, weirdly. I'm not saying weirdly, like it's so weird for me to be single. I'm saying weirdly because it's very easy for me to get in a relationship.

Got it. And I've been actively trying to be alone and be with myself and just feel the feelings and not have to band-aid it with sparkly shiny you know emotional thing totally and so yeah I've not I've been in and out of things a little bit but nothing concretely and so um until And so until, you know, we'll see. Okay. So last year, you went through a very public divorce with your ex. Your ex-husband went on a reality show and there was a situation with another woman that just played out and you had no idea it was happening until it aired for the world. What did you feel when you saw this play out for the world to see? I will preface this with they've taken up and I'm collectively calling them all they because I don't know any of them except my ex-husband.

They took up a lot of energy and emotion and time and real estate in my head and um i don't want to give them any more time and energy because then they would win and they would get what they wanted which was getting my time and energy and attention um i was not aware of a lot of things and I'll say that so I will say what people think happened happened and I think that there's also in my experience with this and how I processed it there's a lot of um grace that I give myself and also I can own there's a part of this that I'm not I don't have a part in they messed up um but but I I I am trying I tried I tried very hard to see it all from every side and, and release that anger because it doesn't serve me. At some point when you're moving on from something, it's like you don't want to give things air. when watching it i got triggered because like i have had a not exact same similar situation but like i've seen things online of someone i was dating in the past and i was like

sorry what and it warps your perception of like how can you trust people like it's such a um or how can you trust yourself yeah which i think was i think the saddest part about the whole thing was i was i didn't i didn't see any of i was what like um and to trust yourself after that and be like i have a i have a good sense of character um there was some I have a good sense of character. There was some – I had instincts. And I think because I was in love, I didn't trust them. Yeah.

That's what I feel like which is the worst is when you get a little space from it. We kind of always know. But like there's so many reasons we don't want to know because it looks all good and most of it feels good but there's like a tiny thing in your head that's like you know like no get out of here like everything is fucking good like we are thriving over here but it's not and I guess like I just now like thinking you're fabulous and getting to know you I can't help but just ask like how do you how I feel like you're kind of a private person specifically with my relationships a hundred percent yeah so how do you how did you just like handle like fuck him and that all them for a minute like how do you handle internally people fucking coming at you and wanting to know something so personal that like,

this person betrayed you, like they took it so public, and you didn't have a say in it. Like, how did you recover from that? Like, and how are you recovering from it? I think that was the hardest part was the not being able to not be not because anyone silenced me just that I was not going to play that game um I don't have the anger that I think that I I think people wanted me to have in terms of like I wasn't it was so like what I just didn't even want to go there you know I get what you mean you like, I know people want you to put out this big statement. Like, I saw it. And you're like, the fuck? Yeah, I, of course I saw it. Yeah.

You know? Yeah. Watched it with my dog. So. By yourself. Mm-hmm. Whatever. I, it's like, now I can laugh about it because i think it's so i think it's insane it's insane and it's so funny like it's so crazy is there anything like closing out that chapter of your life that you feel like was like very misconstrued on the internet like

that you could clarify right now um i think i would say that it yes what happened happened and i think what people you know what it's alluded to in the press is some is true but what I do think, you know, which the press can't do, thankfully, is the intricacies of there was love there. There was a marriage there. There was so much love. And I think that that gray is hard to understand because it's much more salacious and interesting that it's just like he did this and she did this. And I think that's what I would want to I guess put out there is that I think a lot of people go into relationships where someone hurts them. But I don't regret it.

I don't regret anything that happened because I loved that time that we had when we had it. Did you know her? Which one? Well, any of them? No. You had no clue. And then it slowly just bomb um i did not i did not know like what was going on i think as someone who's so um hands-on with my career. I think I was just completely shocked that I didn't have a handle

on reality in that way. Like, um, that was, that was shocking. Who did you call first? I went over to a friend's house. It was the worst day. It's more the situation that's like so relatable for women when it happens. And it's like you feel like you've been hit by a truck because your reality has been completely distorted. Because you're like everything I believed is changed. And you have to basically pick the pieces up by yourself and it's a really really fucked up situation if anyone is listening has felt it you know what I mean of like you want to say fuck you to the person but you're also like wait five seconds ago you were my person

how does it change on a dime it does and so like the picking up of the pieces by yourself when 48 hours ago you had this person and a life together it's really disorienting but i feel like if you have any like closing advice for women right now generally of just like when you experience someone betraying your trust and disrespecting you in a relationship, like what have you found has given you strength to move forward and trust yourself after something like that has happened to you? It doesn't happen right away because I think the shock and the nervous system and the breakdown of the familial sort of system of safety is destroyed because this person is your home and your home is burnt. So I think what happened for me, which is, you know, and I won't speak about this specifically because I think this goes with a lot of my past relationships or things that I tell my friends, which is to actually start realizing and seeing them as real people and not this idealized version of what you thought or what you built, but who they are really and the intricacies of taking the shine off

a little bit and really getting into the brass tacks of like, did this really work? Because if it did, it wouldn't have happened. And that's really hard to hear because I think a lot of us want to be like, it's them and blah, blah, blah. But like, it is. But I think that there's nuance in the fact that they must not be happy. It's so true. And like, you're so right, Brittany. It's like, I know it's so hard to hear, especially if there's someone like today you found out and you're like oh my god what do I do there is something to be said of having

enough like respect for yourself to know if this person did this to me why would I want to be with someone that could ever disrespect me and that's that is that that has been such a gift for me people keep telling me like what did you feel afterwards and I'm like grateful in a weird way because it was a neon fucking sign it was like bigger than this you're like and double yeah triple so I didn't ever have to worry if I'm, yeah. You know? Yeah. Like, like you'll never doubt. You'll never doubt. Like that wasn't meant to be. And that's what I think leaving that conversation, it is helpful for women to hear like someone that has just recently gone through something that like is unfortunately really fucking relatable. And we all go through

it probably at some point in your lifetime. If haven't fuck you you're lucky um it is like staying really really clear on who the fuck you are and what you deserve and not allowing yourself in the wake of the loss in the first couple months to romanticize something like being grounded of like no no hold on listen to what this person did to you like this person is like you know what i mean like you just have to kind of you're right be realistic and you can cry like i feel like sometimes people are like get over it like make sure you surround yourself with friends that are like cry snot in the fucking tissue like you should be sad because you're mourning something that you didn't have control over the ending of.

But like then move the fuck on. I really, really shout out and give such thanks to my friends who just laid there with me. And they didn't try to fix it and they didn't try to – because there's nothing to fix. There's nothing to change. it is what it is and they just like let me just be and that's what I needed that at that time and you know I listened to a lot of woo woo self-help podcasts but a huge part of of changing and growing is what I think is just like sitting in that pain and not trying to fix it in trying to, and just, I don't know, it makes resilience possible. I do want to know though with divorce, because I do think women, there's such a stigma of like, Oh God, you got to start over. And like,

Oh, how are you going to do that? And men have it so much easier and it's such fucking bullshit like what have you learned about yourself through this divorce oof so much and honestly i'm not this type of girl so i will preface that with with that blanketed statement but i'm so proud of myself. And I'm never proud of myself. But I think that it was really, really crazy for a minute. But I think like anything, I just – there was this one time that I texted a girl from Pitch Perfect, one of the Bellas. And I said, what do you do in this situation? How are you handling – how did you handle this emotion? Because it's so, it's so much pain that I didn't know if I could do it. And she, she just said, you just sit there. You just sit there and you just take it and you just exist. Just exist.

And I just remember sitting there being like, okay, I'm just going to exist. And I'm just like – and it passes. And then you just realize, oh, this stuff is so ephemeral in a way. Like it's just – it does hurt but it comes and goes. And I think that that sort of impermanence can be an example for so many things in life. So true. That's like – again, it's the hardest thing. And it's like what we go back to when we were talking about, you know, struggling with an eating disorder where you're like, oh my God, if only like I could just get out of my head, but it's like, but it does get better if you do get help. It's, it is the same thing with

everything in life. Like there is, you're right. There is this impermanence where like in the moment it feels like, oh, the ship's going down we're fucked like how am i gonna get through this yeah and then one day you fucking wake up and you're like huh i feel better right and i don't know how then one day you're sitting on call her daddy and i ask you if you're single and you're like oh well let me talk to you about my roster bitch like and it's like life goes on yeah had you ever been cheated on before? Yes. Mm-hmm. And ooh, do I love dealing with that in therapy. Ooh.

Girl. Because, you know, here's the thing. Fuck them for doing that. Right. Of course. To be honest. Of course. But underneath that, I can't control that.

And what am I going to be angry for the rest of my life and draw, you know, holes in their eyes with the pictures? Like a little voodoo doll. Like, fuck you but but what i can do with that is look at my part of like i picked them and maybe that was something that i should have looked at because because maybe i was doing something from my childhood of like needing that validation or that sort of conditional love and the fighting for the like, are they going to think I'm hot? You know, like whatever. And it's like, I don't want to, I don't do that anymore. What is something that you have, like you put up

with in the past that now that you've like become centered with yourself and you can look back at past relationships, you're like, I will never put up with this anymore. I had an ex tell me that I couldn't wear sweatpants. Sorry, what? He would fucking hate me. Holy shit. Who is this man? I will not tell you, but yeah.

Oh yeah. That they signified giving up, which I love the description as well. So I'm just getting started bitch giving up giving up relaxed cozy comfortable thriving thriving i was like i can look hot in sweatpants you can look so fucking sexy in sweatpants let Let me be the person to tell you. So I think that guy in general, although young, young, like a young soul. And, and also we're friends now. So it's fine. Right, right, right.

And you wear sweatpants every time you see him. Oh yeah. Oh, my friends got me a ring that is engraved sweatpants. No. Yes. Well, it's just. When, when we broke up. Cause they were like, girl, wear your fucking sweatpants.

Yeah. Well, it's also just so sadly indicative of like male, female relationships, it's just when we broke up because they were like, girl, we're fucking sweatpants. Yeah. Well, it's also just so sadly indicative of like male female relationships where it's like, why do men feel fucking comfortable saying that shit to women when it's like, we would never say, oh, don't wear. Well, I would say don't wear your fucking khakis, bitch. Like, but it's like, what? You know what I mean? It's such a it's such a like a demeaning statement that you're like, why? I think he had an idea of what sexy bedtime-ness was and it didn't incorporate sweatpants. I don't know. But I think that's marketing and also shitty things given to men as of this is what a woman is supposed to do you know and I think that bleeds into a lot of relationships too is that I think men think that there's this

generalization of what women should be like right and I'm sure you've dealt with this a lot too but I think a lot of times I've dealt with in relationships where like a guy thinks they want a boss. They think they want the girl that comes in in a suit and then changes into sweatpants because she's fucking tired. But they don't really sometimes because they want to provide and they want you to have dinner. And all this stuff where you're like, are we in 1940? Right. And I think changing that and actually having guys pull up and be like if you want a boss you're gonna get a boss and she's gonna wear sweatpants because she's been working

all day right and she's paying for this fucking dinner in this fucking house bitch that's right so bow down okay yeah no i appreciate that because i get we're talking about sweatpants but it's it's indicative of other things the theme is no and i i agree with you i think there's a lot of men it also goes back to porn like they see this and they're like oh my god like this needs it's not realistic every porn star i've ever talked to is like it is the fakest thing i've ever done in my life like i am faking it this is fake this is what you see is fake. What you see squirting out is fake. It's all fake. And so it's like, I think men have such a warped perception of what they want women to be. They need to educate themselves and get up to speed because I'm exhausted seeing men treat women like, why aren't you acting like a Barbie doll? Like,

why aren't you wearing lingerie to bed? And it's like, you put on a fucking G-string, bitch. Like, I am done with this. Like, it's exhausting. Okay, so you've learned that. What else are you going to take away from, like, you're never going to deal with from past relationships? I think I fall in love with – and this is before, not anymore. But I really fell in love with people who had potential. I saw it in them. Like, let's go us against the world. We are a team, baby. And there wasn't evidence that that was true. Sometimes, sometimes there was. But I think

I won't put up anymore with with just potential because it's an idea. And although I think it's different than believing in someone and their ability and their drive because I think that's sexy. But I think that there's a difference. Yeah. I feel like it gets so scary and I've had that before and I bet it's very relatable for women listening. Like when you have a guy in front of you and you have all these ideas of what they can be, we need to start being more accountable with ourselves of like, but what is he showing you? And it's like, well, no, no, no.

But no, no. Look at what he's saying and what he's doing every day. Like get your head out of the clouds. But it's hard. And I think that's also just coming from the standpoint of being a woman we've been taught to just like make everyone comfortable and like and look at things like i don't know i feel like we just have moments where we try to make the best of things and instead it's like girl what is he showing you it's hard what we're talking about is like us also as women like just trying to get validation it's like all we know. It's like,

did they tell you you're pretty? Did they tell you you're thin? Did they tell you, like, did you do a good job? It's like, we're constantly just fighting to be validated because we already are starting from below zero as women. It's like, we aren't men. We're living in a man's world. Like you're already at a disadvantage. So we're looking externally for all of these things. And then when you start dating it gets fucking psychotic because you're like do i like him or do i just like really need that like little validation tonight at that date like which is it but eventually totally it's it's it's exhausting but then it's i found once you exhaust yourself enough. Well, I actually ended up having to like really start listing it out in my head. Like I'm like, he yelled at a waiter once.

Oh, Brittany. I know. And I was like, that wasn't the like, bye. Peace. Peace. And you can pick up the bill. Okay. Goodbye.

Good day, sir. Oh my God. Yeah. And then like, and then I like snapped out of it and i was like whoa whoa where am i like but we can avoid those things and we can pretend it didn't happen like i have done that before and this is so fucking embarrassing but like i've done something similar where like they do that and then i pretend i didn't see it like i'm like oh my god like where's my hair tie like and it's like i just saw this man be rude to a fucking waiter but you don't want to see it yeah

because you have you have an agenda in your head and that didn't fit the script i'm like no no like i want to go out with you again because what you're filling this one thing that i'm liking right now so like that waiter issue never happened but then eventually you look at yourself in a couple months still talking to him and he's like doing it now to you and he's doing and you're like okay well i saw this like fucking five months ago but here we are listening to your episode with camila Cabello and you guys were talking about the like slow burn as opposed to like the firecracker thing. And that is something that I really, really have – has been hugely helpful for me lately.

Okay. Is just slow and steady, baby. Just like really slow and steady. And I do think that it works because, because you're gathering information. You're just like gathering slowly. I think it's also so healthy to think about it in that way because slow burn doesn't mean we're like fucking flatline on the first date. It's not like, I'm like, Oh my God, like you are so boring. I'm going to fall asleep. But like, let's go for a second just in case like no there's there

is a spark but it's not to the point where you're like leaving so overwhelmed because again usually that means chemical it's chemical it's chemical and it's something in your i forgot what podcast what it was but it was saying that like if it's chemically and it's like fizzy and it's like nervous and your nervous system is going, then it's triggering the child in you that found something in the child in them. And you guys are like doing that nervous energy thing. And that's not real. That's not safe. That's, oh my God, this is like my mom. And like, I can fix this. You're like, I love you. Like, let me solve all your problems. Let me do my savior complex right now. Put me in coach. And it's like, oh my God, no.

You can, what you want is a mature relationship where you can look at the person and be like, I actually see we have similar interests. We have a very like similar values. Like that is what you need to focus on. Don't yell at the waiter. If you yell at the, what was his name? I wish I could,

Ricky, knock it off. The waiter deserves better. Okay? I, and of course I did the thing where I was like, I'm so sorry.

It's, it's totally fine. He doesn't need the new, it's fine. Yeah. And then you went on another date with him. Oh my God, so many.

No. But you needed to learn it yourself and then did you what did you eventually just not talk to him again yeah yeah okay or no you're like no i have a date tonight i have a date no no no nope not no it's over no okay we are okay dunzel washington what is thank you what is your approach to dating right now and like are you and i know this is like too premature but like are you open to getting married again? And like, are you, and I know this is like too premature, but like, are you open to getting married again in the future? Or are you just not even thinking about

that right now that's a good question because i vacillate a little bit because i think it's a huge you're getting married soon so you so i can't you know destroy this too much marriage is fucking off alex run i'm like no okay fuck off matt we're done no you're getting married soon so you so i can't you know destroy this too much marriage is fucking off alex run i'm like no okay fuck off matt we're done no you're already married right no oh i thought you got the license and everything oh what oh that's oh oh you're right oh i am legally married oh my god oh my god i'm like am i married wait did i get that wrong you're right oh i love that i'm telling you about you. I love that you're, Matt, it seemed like, Alex, I am married. Well, no, to be fair, I was waiting for the 90 day thing.

I think by now I think I am legally married, but my wedding is coming up. Right, right. So those are different. That's what matters. That's, yes, you're right. Weddings matter. Marriage matters more. And I am married.

And this is good to know. Note to self, Alex, you're fucking married matter marriage matters more and i am married and this is good to know note to self alex you're fucking married to you dumb bitch i am married i i think so let me check it's like a technicality yeah yeah technicality anyways back to you telling me i shouldn't get married no no i'm not gonna tell you because here's the thing marriage is fucking awesome okay and i love to be married i really thrive in relationship i do okay and i think that there's something so beautiful about the like you know this the coming together and being like we got each other partnership teammates i do i love that idea um i don't i i i vacillate a little bit of like, can you have that without the paperwork?

Just because I've been on the other side, but I also am a hopeless romantic. I love love. I can't help it. Um, and so I, I would love to be able to believe in marriage again. And I, and I date to, I'm, you know, I'm dating to, to find my person. I think that's absolutely the right way to look at it like of course like you would love one day like maybe but I think a lot of times we can get dating's exhausting oh my god and it can get infuriating but I do think everyone who has been

in love at one point and you don't we don't even need to take away from past loves it's like that feeling is amazing when you are with someone you love and then even if they become a piece of shit later like you can just remember those good moments when you're dating it's like you are dating to find the even better version of that feeling and i think that is that should make people feel hopeful of like put in a little bit of work for, like, a year to two years to three years to five years to then have a lifetime with someone. Like, it comes. We just have to be fucking patient. But it is annoying. I, like – it can be annoying.

But then it also can be really fun. I think that some of my favorite women right now are, like, still dating after heartbreak. I mean, that's huge. It's so strong to be able to put yourself out there like that again and to believe that you are worthy after totally something bad happens in that way that's fucking badass so i and you have to believe in yourself in order to know that you can withstand your own mind yeah the battle of that. I agree. And I think because women are so judged based off of our age and our looks and all the things

and society tells us like, you're dead by 30. Like, I'm like, oh my God, like feeling my best as I'm entering this new era. Like, fuck you. I think we can also just start to say fuck it and just like do what makes you feel good. Like, don't be afraid to put yourself out there. Date. Have fun. Like, we're alive once.

Give it a fucking try. Meet people. Connect with people. Like, if you can change your perspective on it, I think when people look at it, I was like, oh, like, have you found the one? Like, no. And that's so exciting because that means they're out there and you're going to figure it out.

There was some great advice that someone gave me where they're like, if you're looking for them, they're looking for you. And it was so simple. So true. But I thought, oh, yeah, like if you're out there and I feel like I'm pretty cool, then someone's out there that's pretty cool too that's like, where is she? Where is she? And one day you're going to walk in and they're going to be so nice to they're gonna be so nice to the waiter you're like oh my god this is totally the

right guy for me what is your best quality that you bring to a relationship hmm the more surface one i guess is i i'm i'm pretty fun i'm a good time. Whether or not you like me or not, you're going to have a good time. Love. Not sexually. Or maybe. Maybe. I meant more like on the date. Good banter, good conversation.

You're going to have men clip this when you go on dates and they'll be like, I want this. What is this? You're like, oh, let me take you for a ride. Not sexually, but maybe. Just a good time means so many different things nowadays. Yes, it does. It does. But I had to, you know, explain that. But I think emotionally, I am extremely, I like, I really, really get into the nitty gritty with somebody. I go hard for them. I like, I'm super passionate the the nitty-gritty with somebody like I I go hard for them I like I'm super passionate about what they're passionate about I really am like a great

partner because I just love I love that teammate aspect and I love I think like in relationships too we don't listen enough and I really like to listen when I'm in a partnership. What is your take on if you don't fight in a relationship, it automatically means you're in a healthy relationship? I completely disagree. And I know this from experience. Yep. Because I think men – and this is another generalization because it's not true for everyone. I do think men have learned that, that having that sort of emotional, like, fight is much more of a woman's thing, saying what you feel, and let's fight about it now. And they've been trained to stuff it down. It doesn't really matter. Let's talk about it tomorrow. And I always think that sometimes is, isn't detrimental to a

relationship sometimes, because i do think that there's a lot of there's a lot of love and you know companionship and collaboration to be had in the the normalcy of of good fighting yeah not yelling at each other and throwing things but coming from two perspectives yeah i mean it yeah i feel like it comes down to communication like i feel like there are so many relationships that people can look back and be like, we never fought. A.K.A. like, we never really talked. We talked. A.K.A. you probably never had sex. Because intimacy, it's conflict is intimacy. And so is really talking to them. And so is sex. And so it's so I think it's intertwined it's a good point or it's like the most disconnected sex and you're like literally thinking of someone else and you're like and then he's like do you like that you're like oh yeah yeah sorry yeah you're like literally

out of body thinking about someone else like yeah if you really break it down and that's why it is like kind of like beautiful when you get out of relationships and have a little bit of time to reflect it all comes together for you everything that you were blinded by in the relationship you're like huh that is fascinating that I put up with that or we both put up with that like we both got okay with that situation totally it's a really weird cycle that you can get into and you don't see it until you're out of it. You're like, yeah, goddamn. And I'm glad that's why I've waited a year to talk to you, to bring it back to the beginning. I love it.

I love it. Because I do have so much more perspective on, I think I would have, if I would have come here a year ago, I would have been so angry. And I would have not been able to see also my part in things of like who was I there because I was there too you know totally um and I think a lot of times we get so bogged down on the the situation and what happened that we don't look at it from the other side and um I know what I need to change going into my next relationship of who I want to be so true let's close out one more time with your movie parachute I I'm so inspired by you and what you are doing with the themes in this movie can you just give like a little final pitch to the daddy gang of like I feel like men and women but like specifically

for the ladies listening like why should they see this movie and like what do you think it will do for women when they watch i hope it's a it's a combination of being incredibly romantic and a beautiful love story but something that i feel is connected to everybody and something that maybe sheds light on a feeling you didn't know how to put into words that would be my pie in the sky hope is that you maybe feel like this but you didn't know how to to formulate that until you saw it and I've I think my biggest compliment that I've gotten from people seeing the movie, specifically men who don't have to have these issues as most, as many women, they say to me, wow, you know, my sister has this, my mom had this, my whatever. Or, you know, guys too.

But I didn't understand it and now I have a little bit more context of how painful it is and it's changed my perspective on it it's fucking amazing that's what i would hope again i i think what's fun about having conversations like this is like the struggles that you've had through your life and everything of like you sitting here earlier being like there was a point where like i didn't know if i could keep going going through something that's also so relatable and heartbreaking and divorce and like all these like very humanistic struggles that we all can relate to. I think it's encouraging to see you sitting here right now being like I'm figuring it out. Because that there is you know there is someone that literally one of those things is happening to them right now. And this interview could be something that they're like all right i'm gonna keep pushing because i just watched

britney and goddamn look where she's at and that can be me in a year so thank you so much for coming on and talking with me and you're the shit and you're the shit thank you so much for coming on thank you so much for having me this This was awesome. No, seriously. Thank you.