Call Her Daddy - Dancing with the Stars: Whitney & Mark's Final Dance

Episode Date: November 27, 2025

Join Alex for a Call Her Daddy Special with Whitney Leavitt and Mark Ballas. Whitney and Mark reflect on their shocking elimination from Dancing with the Stars, address this season’s biggest controversies and open up about how the online hate has impacted them personally. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

What is up, Daddy, gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper, with Call Her Daddy. Welcome to a special edition of Call Her Daddy. We are doing something I have never done in the history of this show. We're currently at the Avalon Theater in Hollywood, California, and tonight I have so many surprises in store for you. This past week, one of the biggest conversations in America has been about Whitney and Mark's elimination from Dancing with the Stars in the semifinals. After they were sent home, I received thousands of messages demanding. I sit down and I interview them. So I partnered

with ABC to make all this happen. And we have put together a very, very, very exciting show for all of you. So grab your popcorn, maybe get a little bit of wine, maybe some tequila, and get ready because we're about to get into it. This is crazy. I want to preface to everyone tuning in tonight that we are currently sitting in this interview and the Dancing with the Stars finale has yet to happen. So we do not know who the winners are and we wish all of the finalists the best of luck. Yes. But Whitney, I'm here with you tonight. Yeah.

Can you talk to me about how you have been doing since getting eliminated? I feel a roller coaster of emotions. I feel grateful, but I also feel sad. Like something that I think is really important for any fan of dancing with the stars to understand is you are with these people every single day. And you're doing really vulnerable things like dancing, learning new moves, and there's a camera around you 24-7. And then it just stops. It just ends. And so it felt like a huge breakup for me.

And to be honest, I didn't even think I was going to make it that far in the show. So every, at the end of every dance, I just wanted to soak it all in, enjoy every single moment. Because I didn't know when it was going to be my last. But then when it was, it was like, oh, wait, like, I wasn't, I wasn't prepared for that. America was really divided about you as a contestant, kind of from day one. Yeah. And when you did get eliminated, people were either outraged, or they were so thrilled. Yeah.

No, there were literally TikToks and videos being made, people saying, the war is over. So how did it feel to see that many people celebrating you going home? I mean, I shouldn't say it's not a good thing, but I am used to it. I am used to the hate. And so with season one and season two of Secret Lives and Mormon Wives being out, like, I just, didn't think I was going to make it that far in dancing with the stars because I already knew like the persona that I had in the media. So I didn't think people were going to really vote for me. All of this has I genuinely believe created a larger discourse about women, online hate, bullying,

reality television. And we're going to get into all of that tonight. But first, I kind of just want to go back to like, when did you first decide that you really wanted to go on dancing with the and when this was like an actual goal of yours? I've always been a fan of the show. It like brought me so much joy. I love dancing. Dancing has always been a part of my life. I always say like I feel most like myself when I'm dancing.

And so never in a million years did I ever think I'd be casted on it. Like it just felt like an unobtainable dream and like a delusional idea I had in my mind. So then once that chance presented itself to me, like I wanted to go after it. The moment you realize you get dancing with the stars, what did that moment mean to you? Well, when I first found out, they called Jen's name first. So it was like immediate like, oh, damn it. But then they called my name and I was like, whoa, like it's like the heart went down and then it shot right back up. Yeah, I just, I immediately looked at Connor, ran and like literally jumped on him just because I just.

I just couldn't believe it. Like, it just didn't feel real. So I want you to kind of go back because you said I was worried because season one and two of Secret Lives of Mormon Wives was already out. So to anyone that lives under a rock, yes, you are on another reality show. Right. And can you talk to me a little bit more about how you had concerns that your reputation from that one reality show would bleed into how Dancing with the Stars fans would feel about you?

Yeah. I mean, listen, I, I, I know. knew going into reality TV, I wasn't going to control the narrative. Of course, I'd love for you to see all the happy days and all the positive things and all the great things that I say and do. But I knew going into that, that that just doesn't come with the territory. With seasons one and two, we can say it as it is, I'm like the quote unquote villain. And I just felt like in the media, the perspective that I had out there. Like, that's just who I was. And so I just felt like that was going to carry with me onto dancing with the stars. And for anyone who is not maybe fully

clued into secret lives, can you just explain a little bit of why you were painted as the villain in season one and two? Yeah. I mean, I'm a very, like, I wear my emotions on my sleeve. I'm very open and sometimes that bites me in the ass and in season one and season two like sure there were decisions that I made that I wasn't happy about but they were very petty things like not showing up to an event to support a friend unfollowing people it was very just very petty things and then with that and with like being in this reality world like just I think people love giving someone that title and that title was given to me. Would you do anything differently when it comes to season one and two when you look back? I mean, yeah, of course. I'd look back and I'd be like, well,

I probably shouldn't have said that. I probably shouldn't have done that. Absolutely. Life would be a lot easier. If we could just be like, you know what, let me just push the rewind button and let me get a redo on that one. That would be incredible. But that's just not what happened. Okay. Dancing with the Stars. Take me to the first few weeks. How do you think the fans felt about you? I just wasn't sure. Like, we don't see the votes. Like, I don't know, like, where I stand every single Tuesday. But, I mean, Mark will even tell you, like, the first Tuesday, like, I was like, man, like, I just really want to enjoy this one dance because I might be going home tonight.

But that's how I felt every single Tuesday. Like, I just, I wanted to soak up every single dance because I just didn't know when it was going to end. So as you start to kind of go through this experience, what were you in the initial? days loving the most. Oh, the beginning. I loved the beginning because actually, sorry, yes, to answer your previous question. In the beginning, it was lots of love. And I was like, oh my God, like I'm not used to this. Like, this is so crazy. Like, Mark is such a wonderful person. Like, I know he, like, he's a fan favorite on the show. Like, everybody loves him. And so I felt that love and it was exciting and we were learning these dances and it was just like yeah I was experiencing

everything for the first time some early criticism that you received was around your previous dance experience yes can you just clarify for all of us what is exactly your previous dance experience with me I um so I think what people were so hung up on is my modern dance degree um I got that at brigham young university that's a Mormon college, very conservative. Modern is like lots of shape. It's very artsy-fartsy is the best way that I can describe it. But as far as like, that's as far as it went. Like I, dancing with a partner in this capacity is like so new to me, so different. Of course. That background helped learning different techniques, but this was still very new to me.

Yeah. And before going on the show, how much were you actively keeping up with dance? Well, at the time when I had found out, my baby was six months old. So after I had kids, I wasn't dancing. Like, I wasn't dancing rigorously because I went to college and then I just started having babies. I have three kids. I have a six-year-old, a four-year-old, and my baby just turned one. So, yeah, I went to college. I started a family and I wasn't. dancing. Of course. I was making, like, TikToks, and that was, like, my outlet. And then I found out, and I was like, hey, like, his go time. So you weren't actively dancing. No, I wasn't. Professionally or anything of that sort. I'd, like, go to good class, maybe every once in a while. But no, I wasn't actively dancing. Regardless, you quickly became a frontrunner out of the gate. You and Mark were getting some of the highest scores the entire season. When do you feel the shift? I feel like the shift. I feel like the shift.

happened after week five. I feel like that that's when it happened and it was like there was a moment where Mark and I were out of sync for like a little section in one of our dances and then I don't know. There was like this up for it's like, rah, like see like she isn't good or da da da da da. And then it just like exploded and then it just went south. So that's one shift and then there's the obvious shift. a week before the semifinals, season three of the secret lives of Mormon wives airs.

Yeah. And the online discourse completely explodes about you. Was there anything that you were aware of and nervous for fans to see that was going to come out? I mean, I was very clear why I came back that season. It was very candid. and I just I wasn't sure how people were going to take it and it felt like it was 50-50 like you either had respect for it or you either were like oh my gosh okay so let's talk about that the backlash that really was I feel like the frontrunner of the core of why people first got

so upset when the season came out was you revealed that the only reason that you returned to secret lives was because you wanted to get cast on dancing with the stars why do you think that was so controversial. At least from what I've seen, I think people thought that I was like exploiting a friend group, but that wasn't at all. I mean, there's even a scene that I watched. There's a scene of me and Taylor were getting glammed for something. Oh, it was for PR. We were getting glammed for PR and she's asking me. And she's like, well, the women only think that you're back to audition for a chance to be on Dancing with the Stars. And I was like, that's exactly right. Like, that's exactly why I'm back. Like, I was very honest, very clear.

I wasn't trying to mislead or be sneaky about anything. Like, I was very clear about my intentions coming back. Clearly, they felt like that was off-putting. Right. They're like, you're not here for the sisterhood. You're here to make money. What is your response to that? Well, there's history with that because after season one and then filming season two,

there was an effort to rebuild those friendships and it didn't feel reciprocated. So I was just trying to figure out how to navigate that. like, okay, like, where am I going now in this experience? Because it doesn't feel like I am wanted in this experience. And so going back with season three, I just had a different mindset. And I was honest about the mindset. Well, which I think a lot of people respect it. They're like, would you rather you lie and you're like completely fake? No, you're just like being real. And you're being like, this is exactly why I'm here, take it or leave it. You said, quote, You were treating secret lives like a business opportunity is what you're saying.

How do you think that impacted your relationship with the rest of Mom Talk? Well, going back, the beginning days of Mom Talk, I fell in love with Mom Talk because I love the camaraderie. I know it's so cheesy. I know they're like cheesy little TikToks, but that wasn't outlet for me because I love the camaraderie of entertainment. Like it takes like even right now, like so many people, the lighting, the things. filming the microphones, like the audio, like, takes so much to create, even what we're creating right now. And like, I have so much respect for that and passion for it. And I know it was so cheesy, but I loved that about mom tacos. I was like the camarader of us getting together

and like making something entertaining for somebody to watch at home. Like, I loved that. And then it just shifted. It just wasn't that for me anymore. And so I didn't know how to navigate that. And I didn't even know how the other women felt about it. So I would just tell myself, okay, well, let me just be honest about my intentions because I don't know where we stand. It doesn't feel like you want me here. So here's my intentions of being here. Do you think that your approach to the sisterhood is completely different than all of the other women? I'm not sure because I would hope that we were all wanting more. from being so vulnerable and sharing our lives to the world.

Yes, it may have started as one thing, but I don't know any reality show that doesn't transform in some capacity. Well, and it already has for a lot of the women. Like, Macy has her book. Taylor's The Bachelorette. Like she was just on here announcing that. Like, there's so many things even now happening for all of the women. And I would hope that for all of us that we could use this experience

to then venture out to other things that we were wanting. Yeah. Do you think you got a fair edit this season on Secret. of season three I do I really do I think um you know and and going back like I wanted to be honest I wanted to be real and I and I feel like it was is there anything with regard to this new season that you want to set the record straight on I mean yeah I guess I'll double down on that like when the producers called me because I had stepped away from the experience like when they called me and they were like, hey, you come back and film, you will have a chance to audition to be

on Dancing with the Stars. And I said, fuck yeah. I will be back for that. You wouldn't. Yeah. Because it's a job at the end of the day. Yes, it is. Right. And like, I understand that there's more, there is relationship there in the group. Um, so I could totally understand why it was off putting for some of the women. But that's just where we were at the time. I mean, obviously now friendships are different now like we've rebuilt we're rebuilding those right now but at the time it wasn't that

you were not the only woman like you mentioned earlier from Secret Lives who was on Dancing with the Stars the season Jen Affleck was also a part of the show how did you feel

that you were both cast we actually didn't see each other a lot like we our rehearsal schedules didn't really match up I saw her on show days I saw her on blocking sometimes And yeah, I mean, I'm sure that she enjoyed this experience just as much as I did.

Jen said, quote, the minute there's an opportunity, you say you've always wanted it and implied that you only wanted to audition for dancing with the stars because she did. What is your response to that? Oh, that I only want to audition because she did? Yeah. Oh, that's wild. I always wanted to be a part of this show. I think that everybody can have the same dream, everyone can have the same goal, and we just happen to have the same dream and the same goal. And I'm so happy that we both got to do that. Okay. Well, we need to talk about her elimination. Yeah. Because this was one of, again, these moments where there are slow-mo videos of you reacting to when Jen gets eliminated. And we have basically a moment where it looks like you're smirking and then you cover your mouth, like describe what was going through. your head and what actually happened.

Yeah. I thought I was getting eliminated every Tuesday. Every single Tuesday I was like mentally preparing myself. So in that moment, I felt two emotions. Like it was one where it was like, oh my God, they didn't call my name, but oh my God, now my friend's going home. Like two emotions in that moment. And I think, you know, it's like it's a relief.

And then it's like, oh, wait, but now somebody is going. going home and now is leaving this experience. So when you went to smile, that feeling was what? It's funny. Like, I don't remember smiling. But if anything, it was relief. Like, oh, they didn't call my name. Like, I get to do this one more week. But, oh, now somebody has to go home. Right. I hate that they don't get experienced this anymore. And so there was no excitement that Jen was getting eliminated. Absolutely not. No. No excitement. There's never excitement when anyone gets eliminated. But there's definitely relief. Like when they don't call your name in that moment, you're like, I get to do this one more week, but then we all go and we, you know, I even

experience. Everybody comes and they hug me like, of course they were all relieved that they all made it to the final and then it wasn't them. But then they're all so sad because somebody has to go home. Jen went on TikTok live after her elimination and said, quote, I would be rooting for a former mom talk person, but we won't be getting into that. how does that make you feel that she's essentially coming out and saying, I'm not going to vote for Whitney? Right. I'm not going to root for her.

I mean, this is a thing. Jen understands what it's like being in the public eye, being in the reality space, getting the hate, like she's experienced it. So, I mean, it sucked. It didn't feel great that she fed into that, that she decided to go on alive and say, yeah, I'm not going to vote for her. I mean, she could have just said who she was voting for. She didn't need to say who she wasn't voting for.

And then to go and press, like, there's definitely more story there, but... Can you just help us understand a little bit more, though, like, what is going on between you and Jen and what is your current relationship? The relationship's not great. I don't really even know if there is one right now. There was a lot that happened while we were doing Dancing with the Stars. We were also filming Secret Lives during the time. so I know like the audience is going to be able to see that story

when that comes out next year. Got it. So we're going to probably see that on season four and that's something you can't fully talk about. So there is something going on with Jen. We just can't fully talk about it yet. Right. And when we see that story,

are you looking forward to that story coming out and more clarity or are you nervous about it? Both. Because I just think feelings were hurt on both sides. and there wasn't a mutual understanding but I can tell you what I didn't do I didn't go online and say

I'm not supporting you and I'm not rooting for you yeah it just sucked what terms are you on with the rest of mom talk great everyone's great like there's so much support while I was doing Dancing with the Stars like so much love so much like even after it got eliminated everyone texting me

checking in on me like great I'm loving where the group's at right now. I'm loving it. You're like, thank God. I know, like, who would you say you're closest to right now? The women that I'm closest to right now in the group are Demi, Layla, and surprisingly Michaela, which I don't think anyone would have never thought of millions. I definitely would have. But I'm very, very grateful, like, where we're at right now in our relationship. Yeah. We have touched on some of the secret lives drama and how it affected this season of Dancing with the Stars. But there were so many more

moments that you went through the good, the bad, the ugly, but you went through it with someone. Yeah. So I feel like we cannot continue this interview without including him. About the legend himself. Mark, welcome to call her daddy. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you for joining us since getting eliminated. How are you doing? I think, you know, I think that day we kind of had a gut feeling, to be honest.

I think that week had gone pretty well. I feel like the dances came together for a semifinal a little easier than typically. But I don't know. And it was like time for the live show and like something just felt awful. off time for the live show and we had just said to each other before we went ahead let's just go out let's enjoy ourselves let's have fun go for it like let your hair down enjoy this because we just had a feeling we're going to circle back because i want to get to the elimination but first we need to go back to the beginning of your guys's beautiful partnership can you describe what built this beautiful

partnership because it feels like you're going to have a lasting friendship right yeah you're both like I know we absolutely hate each other. No, everyone's speculating right now because you guys have been kind of quiet that they're like, right, right, right, right. I'm doing. I've seen like these TikToks like, Whitney and Mark, they're not speaking, they're mad.

Because honestly, like, after we, I haven't, I kind of took a social media break. Good for you. And I do that, to be honest. Like, I'm not the best at it. But yeah, so after the elimination, I kind of just like got off. And like, I have a wife and a son

and I wanted to spend some time with them. And then you call. And I called. And now I'm like, now I've got to fucking make this in three days. I'm going to rent. You're like, wait, I'm excited. Alex, but also fuck you. Okay.

Back up, Whitney, going into the show, did you have a certain pro in mind that you would hope that you would get paired up with? I mean, I didn't even know that Mark was coming back. I love how you just reminded all of us. We all thought maybe you retired, right? You kind of announced that you were retired. How did you decide to come back? this is a loaded question mark i'm ready i'll try and give it to you quick okay so um i had taken a break from the show

um before my last season in 31 where i danced with charlie demilio um obviously there was a global pandemic so everyone was taking a break i had also you know i went to musical theater college i was on broadway i was into a couple of other shows my wife and i were trying to start a family and there's just like other things at play and i also like you know there is this narrative like a margo like comes back when he done I did 19 seasons in a row. That's a lot. And I, over that time, I had taken on some injuries, knees, back, necks, wrists, like, all of it. It all hurts.

And I'm 40 next year, you know. I'm going to turn 40 next year. So when I found, like, love my relationship with Rob Mills, Dina Katz, forever. And Conrad Green, who is our producer at the moment, he had called me for season 31. I said, would you ever be interested? And I was like, well, are you on the show? He's like, yeah, I'm coming back too. And I was like, oh, well, let me think about it.

And then, you know, I was like, why not? Like, why not? Why not? So we ended up doing season 31. I didn't have much time to get into shape for it. My partner ended up being Charlie DeMilio, had no idea going into that. That worked out. We had a wonderful season together, but I'm not going to lie.

Like, my wife will tell you, the amount of Eps and Salt Baths. And I had some pretty bad injuries, and my lower back had been really bothering. me for a while. And actually during that season, my wife went through, we found out we were, my wife was pregnant and we ended up losing our baby before the semifinal. So I had to leave like her having, you know, the, um, uh, the appointment to have the baby removed to come dance for the semifinal and then go on. And I was, that had kind of like just taken it out of me. And I just had body injuries that had really, really affected me. And after that one, I was like, maybe I'm, maybe I'm done. I feel like in the moment I had made an emotional decision,

like, because I announced it at the tour, like, this might be the last one, blah, blah, blah. And then fast forward, and they're happier note, my wife ends up getting pregnant. We have our son, Banksy now. And when he was born, I was like, no, I'm not going to be dad who's like, I used to be a dancer, and I can't play soccer or throw a baseball, you know? So, like, I was really diligent about getting in shape, PT, working hard, getting into it. And then my body started feeling good again. Like it will never be perfect again, but I was feeling like I could still like, ooh, this feels like how it used to. This could maybe, you know, so then I was entertaining the idea of coming back and I reached out to the people and said, I think I got a couple more in the

tank. And here we are, you know. Thank you for sharing that because I think it just adds color to, we do not know what anyone is going through. during these experiences and to hear, and listen, I've seen it all over line of everyone being like, Mark only comes back when he knows he's going to get a good partner. I am not privy to the cast, like, which one do you want? You know what I mean? The show is the show. It keeps it moving. And, you know, I've been happy to be a part of it for so long. It's been a big part of my life. It's given me so many amazing opportunities. And I've had partners of all levels. So what was your reaction when you found out your partner was Whitney? I mean,

And we've talked about this many times. Like, I'd never seen the show before. I had no, um, again, like, I wasn't really on, like, I'm on social media, but I'm not, you know, like. Mark, you're not a mom talk. Yeah, what the hell? I mean, I am now. I know the moves now. But, um, you know, I, uh, I was just excited to, to be back and to be out there with my fellow pros and like, you know, just ready for the experience.

Again, I've done this so many times that, like, let's go, bring it on. Like, again, like, I've had partners at all different levels. So I was, once I met her, we kind of hit it off pretty quickly. We had fun and, like, we laugh a lot. We roast each other all day. Yeah. Which is fun for me. I love the banter, you know.

Whitney, yeah. How would you describe Mark as a coach? You can let it rip now because, like, I don't worry. You know what I mean? Absolutely. Absolutely. Mark is so good at showing you what you can do. And there'd be so many times where I'm like, there's just no way. Like, I don't, what are you talking about? But he pushes you. He's going to push you. He's going to be hard on you because he believes that you can do that. And then I'll do it. And then I'd be like, well, yeah, fuck yeah, you know. And I needed that. that the two of you had to overcome in the early days to really make this partnership work.

We vibed right away. Yeah. Like, we just, like, hit it off. Like, I just think sometimes people just naturally connect and we naturally connected. But I actually feel like the hardest thing in our relationship was the hate that we got online. Yeah.

Like, I had experienced it, but having someone that I loved and care about so much, like, experience that, like, in turn hurt me. And then we experienced it together. that was probably the hardest part. Can we talk about that, though? Because it's like, take me to week one. Because I'm assuming that week one was not completely clouded by this hatred yet because it grew and it grew and it grew and it grew.

It was week one like and how were you guys nervous? Did you feel prepared? Well, I also want to preface this as well. And I know kind of mentioned this before like a big part of me wanting to do this season too is that my son is old enough to understand. you know and it's like i'm again i'm turning 40 next year i don't know how much longer i can like do this at the level where i can watch myself back and be like i can still do it so i was really excited for my son to like watch it and be like that's my dad you know what i mean even he's only two but he can still like when we watch the dances back he points at the screen he's like

daddy you know what i mean so i was like super excited for that so yeah the first four weeks i felt like we're a blast like we did that first tango to golden and then it was the play that funky music cha cha yeah that's what i told alex too i said like week five was when yeah it was around like so you were on a high at first yeah like you're getting some of the highest scores you're you're vibing together um i did ask whitney about this earlier and i want to get your take mark though one of the things that people really focused on with whitney was her dance background yeah and there was a lot of conversation whether or not she had an unfair advantage what is your take? My take is that

is that the show again we're in season 34 and I feel like when you look at the graph of the people new fans watching it is off the scale so there are a lot of people watching for the first time I can tell you from

someone who's been a part of the show since season five that I don't think you could tell me one season where there hasn't been someone with dance experience like like when you're casting one of these shows it's called Dancing with the Stars you're picking people that are known from their fields and mostly all derived from the entertainment industry or they're an athlete or they're on television. And I would say if you're trying to pick 12 to 14 celebrities in the

entertainment industry, someone's going to have dance experience. You know, and I can tell you from season two, Mario Lopez, Sabrina Brian, my first partner, Nicole Scherzing or Jordan Fisher, you know, we've had ice skaters, we've had Olympic gymnast, Charlie Demilio, Jojo Siwa, Jennifer Gray. This season we have a few people also with dance experience. The thing I think that for Whitney,

specifically, if we're talking about in this context, that I think for people was like, oh, wow, like, it's really powerful is that she is a dynamic performer. And that's something that I can't teach. You're born with that.

You're born with when you walk in the room here, like, let's get it. Like, you know what I mean? Like, you can develop it over time. And you'll see there's some great dancers whose technique is just like whoa and then you have some dancers whose performance quality is like whoa and it's like the the goal is to try and bridge the two together and that takes time like a fine example is that your first week two chacha to play that funky music compared to

your prince night chacha like to a coach or someone that's in this field like it's night and day but the performance quality is the same still there you know let's talk about improvement yeah because this was one of the biggest conversations online as to why people should still be there, why they shouldn't be there. Fans understandably are looking for the stars to improve as the show goes on with their coach. But this season, it felt like Whitney was penalized because she started off very strong. Mark, what is your take on this? Again, my take on the improvement thing is like, to me,

as a coach like this is not a biased thing like she will tell you in rehearsal i am relentless in the pursuit of making things get better like like even today when we rehearsing for this what we start talking about pivoting your feet and i was like it's week 11 you know like there's things that we're constantly always trying to iron in and this is for all the professionals the professionals in our show do such a fabulous job at taking anyone at their level and improving them. Now, when someone has a little bit less experience, the improvement can look like this, right? But if we look at the chacha one to chacha two, it's night and days between leg action, footwork, tightness and turns. Even as your partner, like, sometimes I felt

like I would have to like hone you in a little bit out there on the floor. If we look at Herveni's waltz frame, like the ballroom frame compared to like your tango week one, it's like huge improvements there, you know. You're coming out so strong. I'm curious if you think that this is going to affect how contestants strategize moving forward. Here's what I'll say. I'm sure I can't speak for other people's strategy or how they approach the competition. I can only speak from experience from mine and and we talked about this at the beginning. My strategy is always do your fucking best. Yeah. Come out swinging. Do the best you can because the reality is I'm in you right now. This is not the first time that someone who is an amazing, incredible dynamic performer

has been eliminated early. It happened to me in season five with Sabrina Bryant. But this is the first time I feel like it's happened with this new TikTok and Instagram hype. Like this has been happening on Dancing with the Stars. So to underserve yourself, to underserve your performance for strategy, I just don't think it's the move. Like I feel like if you can do the dance and you feel good, like do your best you just don't know because you don't know if you're getting the votes you don't know great great advice um a controversy that both of you experienced this season was around the ticket giveaway we have to address it how do you think this affected your guys standing on the show who's taking it i'll take you okay thanks mark you're like you go i'm gonna paint this picture

for you right when this came up i promise you it was super innocent it was just like So casual. So casual. We had talked to teams about it. Hey, we want to do a fun giveaway. Other people had done giveaways, but there's context to it, right? I'll tell you, when I was, when we talked about it, I was in the middle of putting three dances together. It was, what week was it?

It was the marathon. It was the marathon week. So your dance was brain, the Halloween dance and the hustle and the Lindy Hop. Right. So all my energy was into that. that and we were like hey could we do something fun give away for fans yeah let's do it come on sure fine probably in hindsight should have checked like in this context um there was only two tickets to give away we've given away tickets to fans lots of times um the um there was no there was no prove to us

you're voting for us i think whitney articulated even in the video like even if you're not voting for us this is an experience for everyone it's just meant to be a bit of fun It was two tickets. Like when it all got that backlash crazy, I was like, you know what, guys? Like, me and my wife just won't vote for me and it'll cancel the stuff up. What do you think really got misconstrued about that entire situation? Just like the gravity of it and how much effect it would have? I'm actually not sure.

And like, probably on me a little bit, like after so many seasons, I probably should have ran it up the flagship and be like, hey, is it cool to do this? But I just didn't think. Well, it seemed for me too. We just had so much on our plate. Yeah, we were just like excited to do it, but it wasn't our tickets to give away. and yeah and it was like posted a dumb photo of me in the comments and we'll pick someone at random and I probably should have checked so I'll take accountability for that because I've been on the show for so long but in the moment three dances five days to do it I just just didn't think

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and orange blossom, the most delectable version of Lieb. Of course, the original Lieb-Oda-parfume never misses either. Its iconic fragrance is infused with lavender and orange blossom. It's the most amazing warm floral for every day, which you've heard me talk about. But Daddy Gang, this is your sign, okay? Lieb Vanilla Couture. Boom, here we go. You are going to want to be smelling amazing. And there you go. Shop now at Sephora. I want to do a couple rapid fire moments. Just answer whatever comes to your mind, okay? At the same time or one at a time?

Both of you answer. Okay. What was the hardest dance to learn? Argentine Tango. I knew you were going to say that. What would you say? Probably that one, yeah, Argentine Tango. What dance are you the most proud of?

Argentine Tango. And Argentine Tango and the Hamilton Fox Strong. Oh, the Hamilton. I love that dance. But I also loved the dance we did to the Green Day song. That was super cool. Oh, yeah. What's a dance move that almost got you injured in rehearsal?

The Argentine tango ending lift. I'm telling you right now that Argentine tango, at least my knees, like, just bruises because when you do those little flickety-dickety-dicities, like you run into each other, and so the amount of bruises I had all over my legs. The trick at the end, you should like roll clip now. Yeah. She does this like helicopter thing. And then her leg actually wraps around my knee and I go to the knee.

I wore two knee pads. because of the speed it comes at like it's you know it's a it was a I was very nervous all that was even when my wife comes to the show and she hangs out with me before a little bit and she's like hey you don't I was like this one's this one's high risk yeah so when we hit that final pose I was like yes yeah I started laughing yeah what dance do you think the judge has robbed you on this is fun this is fun this is fun we're not it's not petty. I'm forcing them to answer it. No one come

for us. You want me to answer? No, I'm not saying it. I did not, I did not. Whitney say it. Okay. I'm going to say it. Go on. Whatever.

You guys are so scarred from the internet, like hating you that you're like, nothing. It was perfect. Okay. Ask me again and I'll say it. Say it. Okay. I feel like the second time we did the cha-cha when we did our last dance, I was like so honed in on that one. Like I thought for sure we were going to get a perfect score.

So that one for me, I was a bit bummed that we'd get a perfect score on that one. Hey, we'll mark you self-danceer. I saw that. I mean, you know, I would probably, um, dang, yeah. Would you agree with me on the cha-cha? Yeah, I think, you know what it?

Okay, I'll say this. I'll say this. Because we got dropped to one. nine on that dance and nine ten ten is a great score by the way let's just get that out yes we love the judges but like it was the uh i think the the comment of like it was focusing too much on the technique and i was like okay like let me go back as a as a coach that's my job let me go back and when i watched it back she looks she was having the time of her life that face was like lit up so you know no that's good answer who was the harshest judge ooh

And we're not putting this judge down, just like the Simon Cowell of. Like who is the person you're like, oh, like I need them to, I want them to. Mine changed. Mine changed. In the beginning, I felt like it was Derek. And then towards the end, for me, it felt like it was Carrie Ann. What is your take mark on all of the backlash that Carrie Ann did receive this past season? People commenting on her looks or like people commenting on. Well, that's, I hate that. Yeah.

Because Carrie Ann is a lovely person and, you know, I've known her a very long time and like getting that, like, again, this is a fun dance competition show. It's meant to bring joy. It's meant to bring happiness. And she's been employed to judge and give her critiques and give her opinion. And obviously, again, taste is not a debatable subject and not everyone's going to agree with what she has to say. But I feel like tearing, you know, a woman down that's doing her job is never acceptable. We now need to get to the elimination. Yes. You both said you felt it coming. Was it because you didn't feel as good about your dance? Were you, in your heads about social media? No, like, I felt our dances were solid. Like, that, being these waltz that we did, like, that was one of my favorite dances that we've done.

Like, I was so excited to perform that dance. It was just, it just felt off. Like, something just, it didn't feel like the other Tuesdays that we had had. Like, you just felt off for me. One thing I'll tell you is, like, I'm an over-rehearsal. I like to rehearse to the point where it's just so ingrained in your body. I hate leaving things a chance. Might be old school,

but that's how I was raised when I was dancing. It's just you rehearse it, rehearse it, so you don't have to think. And in between our first dance and second one, we were over at the other side running it through. And you got, I could, you were just emotional. And, like, I could tell that you felt something. I kind of had to go into football coach mode at that point where I was just like, you can do that.

Get it together. You know, like backstage because I'm starting to get worried that she's going to go out there and black out now. But you guys, we would be remiss to not acknowledge the fact that secret lives came out the week before. The internet is absolutely tearing you apart. Like, even if you were trying to put it to the back of your mind, how could it not be like somewhat in your body where you're going home? You're looking at your phone. You know what I mean? And I think, too, like when we were on the backstage rehearsing it endlessly.

I had felt like that this was our last dance, which in turn, like, made it a little bit more emotional. Interesting. Well, you guys scored a 58 out of 60 for your two performances, but America still sent you home, which was one of the highest scores that night. Why do you ultimately think that you were eliminated? I don't know. You mean like what led us, like not getting the votes, you think? I don't know. I mean, I would, if I was speculating, I would say, yeah, maybe secret lives, because it was such a huge divide.

Like, you either really loved me for that or you really hated me for that. So maybe it swayed some people. Like, I don't know. Yeah, what do you think? I've just done this for so long, like, on dancing. Like, it's, I couldn't pinpoint it, and I would hate to say it was secret lives or it was this. Because, you know, secret lives aside, again, I'm not too. privy to all the stuff on that but this show has had its fan base for 20 years the show has been

going now like we just had the 20th birthday for the show you know and we've had loyal fans that have been with us for a very long time and sometimes this shit happens you know and it's like I think with such a stacked cast and really great talent great talent all around you get to the point where we don't we don't know the votes like Whitney said earlier but like I'm assuming it's going like this like one week someone might just have a number that really move somebody and maybe some week someone

someone who's been voting one way will be like you know what I'm going to throw these votes this way and I couldn't even pinpoint it to one thing I think you know with the intensity of the show and how big it's gotten which I love so much you know everybody's been getting like backlash online it wasn't just us yes hours was very intense but when something's this big I'm sure as you know

like there's always going to be naysayers there's always going to be people like hating on you I think there was just like a window of weeks where it was just like it was intense well god damn well that's what I was going to say because a lot of people online

are like you can't vote people off so on dancing with the stars the point is to vote for your favorite star and your favorite pair to advance in the competition we all know that But this season, maybe because of social media and how there are so many conversations going on on the side that maybe people weren't able to have in the past. But this season, people started to actively ban together online and we're saying let's vote for everyone except for Whitney and Mark.

And so there was a gamification happening where then technically you're like, no, so you are kind of trying to vote someone off because you're voting for. everyone not just your favorite star everyone but you right when did you guys first realize this was happening um probably week five yeah like because i was like even for me i've been on the on the show for so long like when i would see those comments i'm like oh you must be new like you can't vote somebody off like that doesn't exist um however over the years the voting systems has changed we used to have two shows a two shows a week meaning um there would be a result show the next day we don't have that at the moment and you know the votes when the show's live you can vote right but then as the discourse continued I did see like oh that's the loophole is that they vote for

everyone but and I like honestly for me I was like a oh moment after like again I always say there's not much that surprises me on this show because I've done it for so long that was that was new info for me I was like wow okay how did that affect your dancing then you guys are in these rooms together, trying your hardest to prepare. But then you're also like, the internet is literally gamifying this and finding the loophole of how to vote for everyone. But I was like, did it affect your morale in terms of like, is it even worth giving it our all if we know that this is the way it's going to go?

Yeah, like, you were laughing so you don't start crying. This is the thing. And this is what, at least for me, I was so grateful with this friendship, is because there would be a day where maybe, like, it really got to me. And then Mark would be like, no, like, let's keep working our asses off and just, like, put great workout on that stage. And then other days it would shift. Like, and then Mark would be having a really hard day.

And I'm like, no, let's work our asses off and, like, go put out some really great shit. Like, luckily, I feel like there was never a day where it was both of us, because I think if it was ever at that point, like, that would have been really hard. I think the tipping point, honestly, for me, was I was putting my son to bed and like literally I was like putting him to bed and then as like seconds after I did that I opened my phone

to just the wildest video. If you don't mind, could you share maybe some of the comments that got to you guys the most? Ooh. I could read you one actually. The one that you just got? Yeah. Oh, wow.

it's wild okay um this is really heavy do you do i'm ready you can edit it out if you know no but like this is one that i just got like randomly okay like are you this is after one of our dances are you that cheap of a cunt to rot and do this damn you're special you're completely worth this and i hope you fucking burn in hell one day that's just one of them and that's They're relentless Like that Over a dance show Guys

Like I'm at I actually just have like full body chills Because I'm like I understand again Like you're watching this through cameras And there's that You're sitting at home and this is fun And it's the night before Thanksgiving

And people watching But like Guys this is like Horrible shit Over again a dance show. And I'm not even putting it down. It's like, keep in mind what it's supposed to be. It's supposed to bring people happiness and together. And so to be sending that level of hatreds for what? What have you done? I think also the thing is it's like, I think there's a

narrative of like, well, you wanted to be in the entertainment industry. You signed up for this. No, you don't sign up for that. No human beings signed up to dance to choreograph, to make music, to be on stage, to entertain people, to bring happiness, to bring joy. Mark, even if they said your dance was horrible. I didn't like that dance. That wasn't good. Yes. I love that. Right. Totally. I love that. I love that. I have dances where I watch mine back and I'm like, I hate that. It's horrible. Not good. Not good. And that's the great. That's the fun part, right? It's like art is meant to be subjective. I'm well aware of people aren't going to like everything that I make. And that's okay. I'm really sorry though. That's not healthy and that's not normal.

And again, unveiling it. It's like people can read what they want, but then they get to go to bed. You're sitting with your son and you're reading these things about yourself. And so then to get up the next morning and then now let's turn to you, what are some of the comments you were getting? I will say I've definitely become a little bit more desensitized to it. Yeah. Because I've experienced it for years. But I think like what was a little bit triggering was watching someone experience that for the first time for something for what like it just it made no sense to me and then I also at times felt like it was my fault because I was like oh like maybe it's because maybe it's because he's partnered with me so then it felt like my fault like it was just like a roller coaster of

emotions like during that time a large conversation about you was that you are too opportunistic and that you wanted to win too badly and you were quote arrogant how does that make you feel when you hear that back yeah i mean i'm going to be honestly i never thought i was winning dancing with the stars i really didn't we really knew that we knew that probably yeah like we just um but i wanted that experience and i would hope that anyone that had a dream or something that they want in their life or experience that they want that they would go after it not to put anyone down along the way but to go after it and that's what I've always that's how I've always been it's like oh I'm this is something that I want in my life this is something this is a dream that I have

I'm going to while while still having my morals and values go after that I think there was a lot of people online that were supporters of you that came out yeah that started to say this is beyond misogynistic we're calling her arrogant we'd call a man ambitious like her coming out on secret lives being like, yeah, I want to do this show, it really rubbed people clearly the wrong way to have a woman be so centered and sure of herself and know what she wants and to go for it. And I'm curious, like, do you think had you been a little bit more shy and demure and quiet and just like overly grateful, grateful, do you think that paired with your dancing abilities, you would have had just a better outcome on social media for yourself?

you mean if I was a man yeah if I was a man then yeah I think it would have been fine I think they would say fuck yeah you go after that meanwhile you're like but I'm not

yeah but I'm not we start all crying yeah I'm a mom with three kids and it just doesn't work it just doesn't work and to be honest like when the show was going to air when I knew

I knew the show was going to air after the semifinals which again didn't even think we were going to make get even that far. But I didn't know how it was going to be received. But it was half and half. And yeah, it would be interesting if I was a man saying that on Seagre Lives of Mormon Wives. I would be curious to know how that would be received. I agree. Yeah. Can we talk about the cast a little bit? Because I agree there was hatred happening. Again, you guys were the crux of it

all and you objectively got it the worst in terms of hate, but were you talking about this with cast members in terms of what you were going through? A lot of people were going through it. I definitely feel like it was a really heightened for us specifically, but it was like nice to have that camaraderie or like relate with other people or it's like, bro, you can just say you didn't like the dance. Like you don't need to say go even farther than that. Like, um, A lot of people felt it this season. Yeah, I think the pros, and we all kind of like chatted about it too.

Because again, like a lot of us have been on the show a long time and this is new waters to navigate. And, you know, we've all known each other a long time. We work well together. We dance together. Like, we're friends. So yeah, there was definitely some conversations about how to navigate, you know. Mark, people online were speculating that you won't come back

after everything you two went through the season. They're like, you guys ruined it. We're never going to get back. Where do you currently stand? I mean, again, like, I love that. the show. I love creating on the show. Even after my season with Charlie, like, they had me come in and guest judge one day. And then I got to dance with Derek on the season before. I was in between, like, still working through that injury stuff because there's a difference between

doing like a spotlight performance and then doing a full season. Like, you have to be right for that because injuries will creep up on you. Like, but I wouldn't say that I'm like, you know, of course, this one's just finished. So like, I need to sleep for a little bit. Me a breather. Right. You're like, I've learned not to say it right when it ends. But I'll have a chat with Rob. So, T.B. He's like, you're coming back. Okay. Whitney, is there anything you would like to say to, as we kind of wrap up this part of the conversation, to people who actively really, really essentially gained a hatred for you throughout this process? And when you guys got eliminated, quote said, the war is over. She's gone. Like, do you have anything that you? would want to say to those people um i don't know because what i'd want to say is fuck you yeah yeah yeah um but even just that i think that i don't know one person because i get it you're

like i don't want to pay i don't know one person who wouldn't say that fuck you my mental health you're reading this message you're with your children you're trying to have a fun time i think again I'm just sitting here I have a show and I love to sit with people but now I've been doing this for too long that I have sat with people after people after people on reality television who look me in the eyes and are depleted are exhausted and are like I want to give entertainment I'm down for the jokes I'm down for the banter I'm down for some like hard comments and I'm like oh shit like my outfit didn't look as good or my whatever my dance wasn't good but I I am starting to begin to believe that it's

It's like we have to turn the conversation to the people watching where it's like, at what point are we all the problem and we are creating this thing online that is like, it's not fun anymore, guys, where I'm sitting with two human beings right now and I'm going to, I hope I don't continue, but I already know it's going to happen with Love Island. I'll be next summer. You'll see me tuning in and some woman is going to sit across from me and say, my mental health is so fucking broken because the internet has taken a reality show, which is so entertaining. We love reality shows, but they have taken it and they've created something out of it that I am, that it's like you murdered someone's family. And it's become, it's become too real. It's become too big. Yeah. And so to sit in these moments and just be like, hey, yes, fuck you. It's not that deep. Just the domino effect of even the hate online, then maybe strive to be the person to be the domino effect to not be the hate online. Maybe try to say a little bit. more positive things maybe try to not have the intention to tear someone down and create that domino effect because it's so crazy like even with week five when that hate happened like it just took that one video or it took that two comments and then it creates a domino effect well okay well then let's create the other domino effect yeah i hope that's what comes from this conversation and I think meeting you guys and hanging out with you, it's like, you're not trying to be victims.

And I want to make that very clear. We're not all sitting here being like this is, but it is needs to be a conversation. This is getting absolutely out of hand. That was part of the experience. That's that simple. Like, you know, totally. That was part of the experience. I hope, again, I don't think this one conversation will change it, but again, maybe it will make people think maybe let's try to be a little bit different and have a little bit of a different effect and maybe as fun as it is to post the comment and then you go off with your family, it's sitting with the actual people that you're writing about and just be more thoughtful about that.

To turn things a little bit more positive because you're both so talented. Okay, so we have TBD on if we're going to get you back on Dancing with the Stars. We'll let you like ice your body and like do some like sunnas and like relax. Whitney. Yeah. Whitney. Yeah, girl. Whitney.

There's a lot of speculation online right now. There's people zooming in on you. Why is she in New York? What is the paper she's holding? Yeah. What's going on, girl? What can you tease for us? Oh, what can I tease?

People want you on Broadway? Yes. People want you in, people want you everywhere. Yeah. Okay, there's two things I'll tease. Okay. One, I did just book my first movie, which is really exciting. Holy shit.

I know. Oh, my God. And then two, I'm going to be announcing on Monday. But what I can say is a dance that Mark and I performed on Dancing with the Stars. A dance that we performed two on Dancing with the Stars is going to come to life. And all everyone's going to know on Monday. You realize right now the Internet is going to be like, she got it. She did it.

We'll wait for you to. announce when you're ready to announce okay the fans are distraught the fans are distraught because they wanted a freestyle dance yeah they're like how are we not going to see a mark and whitney freestyle dance this doesn't make sense they're like even if they didn't win we need to at least just give us that at least let us see the dance and so i don't know if anyone's noticed, but we are currently sitting in the middle of a dance floor.

And I was wondering if Whitney and Mark you would do us the absolute honor of performing your freestyle last dance. It would be a pleasure.

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