Call Her Daddy - Emma Kenney (ft. Shameless)

Episode Date: October 13, 2021

This week, Father Cooper sits down with Emma Kenney. Emma spent more than half of her life starring as Debbie Gallagher on the TV show “Shameless” and in this episode Emma spills all of the tea about growing up on set. Emma even dishes which co-star she had a crush on. She gets personal and opens up about her decision to go to rehab at a young age and shares new insight on that experience. As a child actor on the set of an adult show, young Emma was exposed to many explicit topics (Weed! Cocaine! Dildos! Nymphos!) and even had her first kiss with the cameras rolling…and her dad in a front row seat. This episode sheds light (and many funny stories) on what it is like to grow up on the set of one of the most popular TV shows. Enjoy Daddies!  

What is up, Daddy Gang? It is your Founding Father, Alex Cooper, with Call Her Daddy. What a beautiful Wednesday. What the fuck is up, Daddy Gang? It is your Founding Father Is your founding father back? I did it again for another episode of Call Her Daddy. Hi, everyone. I have a question for you. Have you ever watched the show Shameless? If you have not, you are not living your best life. Daddy Gang, Shameless is one of my favorite shows. It is one of the most bingeable shows out there. It's authentic. It feels real. And my favorite thing

about the show is you start essentially caring about the characters right away. And when I say right away, like literally episode one, which is truly a testament to a great show and great acting. I remember I got out of college. I was living in the 301. If you're OG Daddy Gang, you know the 301, my first apartment basically in the Lower East Side. And I would lay for hours. I would have the ultimate bed sores, okay? Because I was b was binging shameless and I was so caught up in what Lip and Fiona and Carl and Liam and Debbie fucking Gallagher were doing it's basically a story of six kids raising themselves because their alcoholic father is chilling at the local bar the alibi shout out every, every night he's there and

the kids are raising themselves. Every single possible theme that you would want to see in a show is basically explored. Daddy Gang, today I have on one of the actors that was a huge part of this show. Emma Kenney plays Debbie Gallagher, the youngest sister of this dysfunctional family. I was so excited to sit down with her because I think aside from wanting to know, obviously, the dynamic with castmates, I also wanted to ask her, she started on the show when she was nine years old and is on a set where drugs and alcohol are kind of almost glamorized. And so you wonder like, how does that affect a child at that age where you're on a set and cocaine and weed are fully a part of this family's everyday dynamic? And you're like,

how does that then translate into affecting you in your actual real life as an actress on a set of that kind of show so daddy gang enjoy this episode sit back relax and if you want pause go watch shameless and then come back if you haven't watched it and if you have watched it fucking enjoy because it's a great episode bye okay emma kenny i'm so happy to have you here happy belated birthday thank you i was gonna sing for you but then i was like that's the worst i hate when people sing for me on my birthday and then you just awkwardly sit there in silence i just do an awkward dance and wait for it to be over okay yeah okay i kind of like sit there in silence and like wanted to be over too daddy gang Emma Kenny is an actress who stars on the hit show the Connors and spent 11 years which I just realized it's literally half of your life Emma portraying Debbie Gallagher on

Showtime's show Shameless I am the biggest fucking fan of Shameless as I feel like everyone is. The best. Thank you for being here today. Thank you for having me. I'm excited. I'm excited. You're from New Jersey. I am. I'm from PA. I went to high school. Oh sick. Okay yeah so like Jersey girls. Which part of Pennsylvania? I'm closer to New Jersey than I am to Philly. So I went to high school in New Jersey. Oh. As I'm doing research on you. I looked up your award winning directorial debut. It was when you were nine. You made a short film. I did. Yeah, I was I was nine. Like I've always it was before I started Shameless. Like I've always just been into like, you know, acting and kind of the whole creative process. And yeah, I like would write a lot of

scripts. And my mom was like, why aren't you like making them? And I'm like, because I'm nine. You know, I guess I went about and did it anyways. And it was a finalist in the New Jersey International Film Festival. Did you have like cameras and stuff in your house or you just randomly wanted to go get a camera and be like, I wanted to make this. So the first commercial I ever did, I bought a Canon Vixia video camera with the commercial money. I still remember it.

I went to Sammy's cameras in New York with my mom, and I was like nine. Okay, so you were doing commercials was the first thing you did for like acting. Yeah, I was doing a lot. I did a lot of student films at NYU growing up on the weekends, and then also commercials and stuff. Did you want to get into that,

or did your parents be like, oh, you should do commercials? My parents put me into a bunch of classes growing up like they weren't like you need to be an actress they signed me up for soccer dance karate acting whatever singing and the only thing I actually liked was acting like I would get I'd get so anxious going to soccer going to anything except for acting so you start super early and then when was your audition for Shameless? And like, what was that experience and process like? My original audition for the show, I was nine and it was in New York. And nine. Yeah,

it was. I know it's weird because now I'm older and I'm 22 now. And it's like, you know, I'll see kids that are that age. And I'm just like, that's insane. Like I was hardly even a human fetus. Yeah. Like kids, you know, it's so young. And did your parents and everyone like know the premise of the show when you were like auditioning? Yes. My mom and I, I remember I have like a distinct memory of us finding a clip of the UK Shameless. It was, you know, before it's easy to like find clips and things on YouTube. Right.

On some random website that was probably like the dark web. Oh my God. and things on YouTube on some random website that was probably like the dark web and basically just going going off of that and it was you know kind of did you did you know what character you were like trying to play yes and I distinctly remember just like trying to replicate the British Debbie's audition and then I get I go to the callback and they're like oh just like switch it up like do something different we that's so interesting that you kind of already had like a format to follow yeah after you started on shameless did you keep going to like in-person school like how did the kids treat you in school I fully went to real public high school in New Jersey until 10th grade what yeah no honestly I'm so glad that I had that experience too because I don't know if I was super

grateful for it you know when I was going through it but I look back and I'm glad I had that the kids were not the nicest always like they would call me my character name in the hallway and like kind of give me a hard time and I didn't love that and I was coming from LA and I didn't really like I wasn't with the kids all the time so I didn't have like a set group of friends that I you know so you're playing a character and playing her role of those formative years and then trying to figure out like what yours is supposed to be so you're traveling to LA how did you even keep going to high school I had like a great studio teacher that you know we worked with on set and she would basically just keep in touch with the guidance counselor and the

principal at my my schools in New Jersey they would just kind of collab it was like pre-zoom days but they would blow up my face on like the projector and so I was like in class and it was absolutely mortifying you're like please take that down why does my face literally and I like hate attention to begin with so I'm like this is the last thing I want right now and especially when you're in middle school and high school that's why I fucking sometimes hate high school and I'm always like if anyone's listening in high school like you're gonna you're gonna get through it you're gonna be fine in high school the fact that people weren't nice to you because what you were acting yeah like it's weird because I don't know myself without shameless in a way so it's like I don't know if I would have been picked on if I wasn't doing the

show for other reasons maybe maybe it was a me thing maybe it's just who knows but kids are mean and like yeah you know to people in high school it's like you'll get through it and it's not gonna be this is not the end all be all one hundred percent I hear what you're saying you're like I'm happy that I went to high school because now you look back you still got to do semi-normal things yes while living a semi not normal life so that's kind of cool because I know obviously some kids went to high school because now you look back, you still got to do semi-normal things while living a semi-not normal life. So that's kind of cool. Cause I know obviously some kids would just go right to like homeschooling. Right. Um, so many kids just did that. And I didn't want that. Like I did want that. I really wanted to have, I didn't want to look back and regret things. Like

when I was, I think 16, I got a job at a bakery in New Jersey because I wanted to like do something other than just having only ever been an actor it was like five months I worked there but okay you're a well rounded gal over here you're like I needed to get my foot in the door at the bakery because shameless wasn't enough for me yeah okay that's cool it was fun I'd fill cannolis and um so you show up the first day on the shameless set what do you remember up the first day on the Shameless set. What do you remember about the first day? I know that's so long ago. I actually kind of do remember the first day.

I haven't thought about it in so long. Everybody had been officially casted. And our pilot director, Mark Mylod, he got all of us together. We hung out on the Gallagher living room. And we played like Guitar Hero and like Rock Band or whatever it's called. And we kind of just like a bonding day. and they brought a bunch of like Nerf guns and we were all like shooting each other with Nerf guns running around stage and I remember he sent us home with some homework that night and he wanted everybody to go home and like write a diary entry as if we

were our characters and design oh I remember too he would he asked Ethan and I to like draw like family portraits and stuff to like design the Gallagher house set. So like my art is up there and you know the Gallagher house set if you if you peek in the background you'll see some of it. Who were you like fast friends with? Was there someone immediately day one you're like oh I vibe with you? Ethan and I were automatically like we're like Irish twins.

I think that's a saying right? Yeah I think so. We're like three weeks apart in age. We are both only children. He did the same thing as me. He would go back to Chicago go to his public school and literally like so we have the there's nobody else in the world that like understands the situations that we went through like like we do did you ever get like homesick and did you talk about that together like have each other definitely like he was more of like the popular boy in his school so I think he missed his like you know his

friends and his girls and everything back east back i guess more midwest yeah than i did like i thrived more in la on set but our whole thing was we hated set school like we are notorious in the set school teacher industry for being like the bad kids like now we're older but we would like lock each other in our trailers so that like and avoid the set teachers they're like you have to come to school now like we don't pretend we're not in there like kind of like your characters almost yeah like fuck you now for sure like that's kind of amazing and did like your parents ever go to set like were parents on set oh wow yeah my dad would be on set he'd be in my trailer my dad is such a sweet guy like he growing up uh you know in the sports industry he started off he was a paper boy

for the New York Post, like when he was a kid. And then he worked his way up and became one of the editors at the New York Post. And then when I booked Shameless, he quit his job at the Post that he had been doing, you know, decades to get there and, you know, took me to LA so I could do my dream, which was really sweet. Did you ever feel like guilty? Yeah, for sure I did. And, you know know sometimes I still

do but um he's such a sweet guy my dad and he actually went back to the post a few years after that and now he lives in LA and he does other sports stuff but I can't even like imagine how proud especially because you're an only child oh my god the only child syndrome do you ever feel like you're like all the pressure is on you and the focus is on you? I definitely felt the focus all being on me growing up because I was the only one that they were focusing on. Yeah. I, you know, sometimes it kind of makes you go the opposite direction. Yeah.

Even just as a child, when your parents are like staring at you and you're like, oh my God, I want you to stop looking at me. And like, that was the nice thing about having siblings, which you feel like having shameless. It was fun to like have almost like fake siblings so you got did it feel at all like an actual family at time we 100 felt like a like a family and we still do it's like I know we're gonna be in each other's lives forever like we had such a bonding experience like going through this for so long and um the 95 percent of the cast is only children as well. Did you ever feel like you're like, okay, I feel like I've really like matured and grown

up, but was there ever a moment where you felt like, but people are still treating me like I'm a kid? Yeah, 100%. Like that, I definitely felt that way for a minute, but you know, like sometimes there would be the vibe where it's like, they'll grab onto you and I'll see it sometimes on set, you know, various things like somebody, you know, might grab a kid and say go there go do this and I'm like okay they're humans like you know I would have wanted somebody to stand up for me in in that kind of situation so I'm always kind of looking out for like the underdog or the kid on set per se yeah that's a

really interesting point because like I understand what you're saying when kids are so young literally people need to be like yeah moving them to be like physically here and it's like that's not you know don't let's not do that yeah and when you're did you have that happen to you a lot when you were definitely but I also am somebody where it's like I was always hyper aware of things so I'm I'm always like okay like they need me here like I'm always one step ahead that's good and I don't mean that in like a cocky way. No, I think that's good, especially like as a woman in the industry to be like hyper aware. So you're like, nobody's got to touch me.

Like I'll be there when I need to be there. Fact. Because I can imagine as you're growing up, then you're like, wait, I know last year maybe I was like 13 and now two years later I'm 15. But like now I actually feel like an adult. And like, but you're all still on the same exact set. So time kind of is like a weird concept of like, wait, guys, I've grown up. Treat me like an adult. Right. If you haven't watched this show, there's like drugs, alcohol, sex, booze, cocaine for breakfast. You're washing it down with beer. There's like pregnancy,

like everyone's everywhere. And it's like this chaotic dysfunctional amazing family that like you kind of want to be a part of but you're also like I'm happy watching it over here right I have to ask you in those moments where there's all these drugs and chaos like was there like a dare set on the like on set like after a scene of you being like doing drugs or something people being like okay now everyone reminder like drugs are not cool yeah like how did that work no we didn't have any of that um but that's crazy you realize that like how young you were and like all the stuff and then everyone's like all right take a break and you were just like downing a beer and you're like

okay i'm gonna go to my trailer and you're 12 right yeah there was I mean yeah definitely like I my parents were very um like protective of me like no drinking no smoking no sex nothing like very protective and in a way I think that kind of like pushed me to do maybe the opposite yeah at certain times in my life and um yeah a lot of people ask me if like maybe I went through phases because of Shameless and I actually don't think it was because of Shameless. But then again, I also don't know myself without the show. So it's hard to even say. But that's life.

You don't know. It definitely opened up my eyes to a lot of things that I didn't even know existed. I remember there was like season one, there was a scene where there was like weed in the scene or whatever. And I didn't know what weed was. Like I remember asking people on set, I was like, one there was a scene where there was like weed in the scene or whatever and I didn't know what weed was like I remember asking people on set I was like what is this like and I was like how do they make it and they were like they grow it and I was like what do you mean they grow it like it was like real weed on set and you're like it was like herbal weed okay okay and they have all random like for example like movie cocaine is lactose powder oh my god which makes your nose very itchy i can't even

imagine the amount of times whether you're reading the script or you're in a scene and you're like i didn't know what that was until i read it or i was acting it so like weed was something but like i didn't know what fucking coke was when i'm like yeah nine ten eleven and so like who were you asking those questions just the cast the crew I like there were so many I have so many funny memories I remember there was one line where the line was um like a nymphomaniac oh yeah and I had no idea what that was and I was like what's a nymphomaniac and I'm like saying but everybody and they're like uh like she's how do I answer this like that it's the fact that your character is supposed to be saying that so you're like well I want to know like what does it mean oh my god I remember asking them what a what a dildo was oh my god because it was like what is

that like just did you ever like go to your parents be like yeah on set today like I learned what like a nymphomaniac and a dildo was mom for sure she's like sweetie your job is so incredible yeah it's like what that's kind of wild because I didn't know what a dildo was at that age yeah like that's crazy okay were there any scenes that were really hard to film that have like stayed with you interesting question that have stayed with me the the one scene that well maybe a few would come up but the top of my list would probably be the one where Monica it was like a Thanksgiving episode and Monica um tried to kill herself um that was a really dark scene to watch like it was just very heavy on set and I didn't really fully know what was going on I think at that point because I was so young but yeah I look back and it's that's really heavy and

then there was another scene where Liam as a baby got into like a stash of drugs and he remember that we like in that scene we're supposed to come up and he's like on the floor with like powder all over his face and he's like sleeping and I just remember the director was like okay like close your eyes like you're gonna pretend you're asleep and I was like that's really dark like you're like I don't like this that was really sad like I remember everybody on set that day was like actually crying and I didn't even know what was going on but I was like crying like I'm like this little baby like did you ever like go home those nights and like lay there and be like what just happened like did that it feel almost real at times yeah I mean

certain scenes for sure it's like at the end of the day it's like acting is you're channeling your own inner demons and your own inner inner emotions and bringing that up so it's like you kind of can't help but feel for somebody if they're giving such a raw performance was there ever for you a scene that was like hard for you specifically to film there's been a bunch one that sticks out I remember it was like I was maybe 12 or something and I was at the public pool in the scene and I'm wearing like a little white bathing suit and then the mean girls put ketchup on my seat and like there was just like a bunch of teenagers like at the pool and I'm like 12 and I'm you know insecure and I remember I was very embarrassed and anxious

about that leading up to it there would be a lot of scenes honestly where I would read it in the script and I was extremely anxious leading up to it whether it be like a sex scene or like even just a kissing scene like I had my first kiss on camera and I was so anxious about it leading up to it I was 11 it was like in the playground it was all wholesome but but like you're like this is my first kiss yeah oh my god i feel like i would have been like does someone want to practice with me before i go up there like you didn't practice you were like you just wind it i definitely practiced on my hand a whole bunch i actually remember talking to emmy about it like leading up to it and i was like and i remember she was like kiss my hand like practice on my hand and then she's like give, give more, give less, like giving these like crazy notes.

This doesn't really look, I remember I used to do that. Like I'd be like the wall. I'm like, the wall is not a pair of lips. So like we got to find something better for the young kids. True. I guess the hand could be better than the wall. I'd definitely try on the wall. Okay.

That scene though, back to the bathing suit makes me like my heart. Me too. Yeah. Like I know it's, did you ever talk to anyone before the scenes I didn't have the um confidence I wasn't able to stand up for myself at that point and say I wasn't comfortable doing it and I also was reminding myself that kids go through this stuff and I did want to be strong enough and brave enough okay this isn't a script I'm gonna run myself this isn't a script like people go through this let me shine a light on it and maybe somebody can relate 1000% yeah can relate so mean it's so mean we're not can kids not do that to kids kids are such

fucking assholes fuck you why do you think it was so hard you think it was because it actually like felt yeah like you I mean it was what happened in the scene was literally happening to me although it was scripted because I was sitting in the ketchup and it was yeah a whole bunch of kids around me laughing and I'm like in a bathing suit and I'm all shy and I'm like in a bikini she's trying to be cool and like cute and like would you call your parents like who did you go to in those moments after probably like Shinola she was always like a great like she's like a second mom to me like big sister second mom whatever it is um that's good she's always been there for me and was always giving me very good sound advice the guys don't deal with some of that shit yeah and

they would definitely try and right they're the sweetest like you don't get it yeah like jeremy cam like they're my my big brothers and um they'll try right but it's like no you don't get it yeah like Jeremy Cam like they're my big brothers and they'll try right but it's like no you don't get it white bathing suit red ketchup it sucks and they're like oh yeah I can't relate how did playing Debbie Gallagher affect Emma Kenny I always admired Debbie's wits and if something was thrown her way she would be able to to kind of finesse and get what she wanted out of it or at least I don't want to say learn a lesson because maybe she wouldn't always learn her lesson and would you know make the same mistake again but I always really admired her hard work and her go-getter mentality yeah but I do feel for you in terms of even back to that pool scene of like the writers weren't easy on Debbie they were not no and I've said that before I've said that before

like love the writers but also of course I was mad at them sometimes yeah like you're so young at that point like sometimes it's hard to be like it's bigger than me because it's you in the moment like yeah what was the best thing when you look back for yourself about playing Debbie I just always have such a soft spot for Debbie like it's it's weird like she was a part of my life for so long and it's it's only been a few months that we wrapped the show so I'm still kind of getting out of the headspace of it but this is such a strange thing to even think but I'll be at a restaurant and like they'll be like you know they have extra toilet paper or whatever in the bathroom. And my brain goes to Debbie where if I were Debbie right now,

I would probably steal extra toilet paper rolls to bring home for my family. You know what I mean? Like, I just think how Debbie would sometimes. You're like, Debbie would put these down my pants and run out of here. 100%. You're like,

Emma, stop, stop, And sometimes I'll be on set and my trailer and run out of here 100 you're like emma stop and sometimes i'll be on set in my trailer and there'll be extra toilet paper rolls and i don't want to have to go to the grocery store and i'll take them home stop and i'll have that debbie moment that is kind of iconic okay so emmy rossum played your older sister was there any ways that it actually felt like a sister relationship 100 in good and bad ways, to be honest. Yeah, yeah. You know, we were both so young.

I was obviously a lot younger. There were times where she would try to be a good influence and then there were times where she would be blatantly giving me... Bad. Not the best advice. And maybe she was struggling with her own inner problems and taking it out on other people but we all um handle situations differently but I um growing up I definitely took note from

not just her in particular but people of things I want to carry on in my life and things I do not want to carry on in my life and that's do not want to carry on in my life. And that's period. As also like a young woman navigating this industry, it's, you are, it's, you're so fortunate to come in contact with anyone in the industry that you can learn something from. Yeah. And also just like, be like, yes, want to do that. Nope, don't want to do that. Especially at the formative years for you was it ever a moment where you felt like you were like living in her shadow or like were people trying to like pin you two against each other it's funny you say that because yeah that dynamic I I felt that dynamic for sure and I never understood it because I was nine and she was like over 10 years older

than me so I'm like why is there a weird competition here when I'm not trying to compete right um I don't know if it was other people on set creating that or if it was her creating it yeah but I know I wasn't creating it and there's it's not like nobody's competing that's that's how I feel about everything right that nobody is competing with anybody because what's meant to you for you will come for you right so you can't make anything you can't make a wrong decision yeah I that's really interesting also very mature of how you view that how did you feel when Emmy left the show like what was the vibe of all that it was um it was bittersweet because I had known her for so long and I have a lot of love for Emmy like I've I've known her for so long we haven't spoken in years we're not like you know but that's okay like I have a lot of love for her and I

I hope that she finds her happiness and um I heard she had a baby and that's beautiful and I'm sure she's going to be a lovely mother that's great so yeah now you kept going with shameless were you so happy that it just kept continuing I was of course happy the show was continuing because you know we have a great time doing it and right I I love my I love my shameless family and um yeah no it was it was it was weird at first for sure but it also the set became a little bit more of a positive place I'm not gonna lie that's great I would I remember before pre pre her leaving I'd go to set some days and I'd be very anxious about having a scene with her because wow because she had a bad day she made it a bad day for everybody wow okay well that's good for you and your mental health that like you got to experience another era of like doing it on

your own and like having kind of just like a new vibe yeah that's good okay how did playing Debbie Gallagher affect Emma Kenney I yeah like there were certain things that I wasn't even insecure about until it came up on television or it came up in the script. And I was like, oh, God, like, should I be insecure about this? But then, you know, you grow up and you accept who you are and you make the best of who you are. And I guess that's all you can do. And I just I really just tried to to be brave and to be strong and think of the bigger picture and think that this is, I'm an artist, like, you know, I'm nine. I'm an artist, but I am at the end of the day. And I wanted, I wanted to, to make it timeless and people to be able to relate.

Well, you definitely made it relatable and you definitely were someone like for me, a character that I was constantly like, yeah, like I can tell behind the scenes. Did you ever like go to your parents or people and just be like is this something that's wrong with me like hundred percent especially Shinola yeah like I would literally I've had so many conversations with her about that over the years and she's so sweet and would give me such honest and empowering advice and like what would be an example of something that you would go to her about um I'm trying to I mean everything honestly like she everything body image issues um I used to be insecure about my freckles and like there'd be like lines here and there about my freckles or whatever and um dude I was the same when I was younger yeah but like now people draw them on

and I'm like okay cool like where was this 10 years ago right right like you have to find the positive but when you're younger it's really really fucking hard. It is. It is. But nothing is forever. And you know, we all grow into who we're meant to be. Yeah. Debbie got pregnant at a very young age on the show. Where were you at that time in your life? Like, can I ask you like, had you even had sex? Like, I think I was 15 or 16 so no I had not that's wild and like what was your love life like at that time you're like on set having a baby and then you're like not existent I was you're like two minutes ago I just had my first kiss on screen how did that first kiss go oh my gosh I remember um I was so nervous about it leading up and my dad was there literally

behind the cameras watching it his mom was there and then I remember after the first take like I was like literally I'm like counting my head I'm like five four three two one happens anyways and they cut and everybody's like clapping and laughing I'm like stop fuck you all I'm beet red stop wait was it a makeout or like a kiss it was a kiss it was like a wholesome little kiss and like i think he was like smoking a cigarette in the scene and like i'm like 11 the fact that your dad was there did you just you let him be there i i mean i was i had to have a parent on set i was so young so you're like dad close your eyes but also was that awful anybody yes they clap for you but they clapped and laughed because it was just it it was so cute. Did you only have to do one take? No, we did like six or seven.

By that point, you're like, I'm an old pro. I am ready. Yeah. I'm like, I'm a great kisser now. I've kissed him seven times. Oh my God. Yeah. But then like when you actually had your real first kiss, like how different?

I mean, yeah, like definitely different. But I also felt like I had experience. Right. So you were like. Yeah, literally. I'm like, I feel like this isn't my first time around and they're like wait really you're like well I did kiss someone on a tv show but that doesn't matter I've kissed wait that's amazing what was the worst thing about playing Debbie sorry that's a hard question no um it's kind of easy actually like they gave me so

much to um certain seasons of the show like they made her in the script at least very like unlikable and they'd you know I'd they'd be like you're so mean to your siblings and I'm like dude it's this is the writing like relax but then I remember I made a conscious effort because I was sick of getting told that and I was like god like maybe this is just my ego that doesn't want to be told this anymore that I'm you know the worst part of shameless or that I'm you know so like whatever so I just tried to change my approach they didn't change the writing but I just tried to change my approach with the lines and come from a more vulnerable spot than a like aggressive spot exactly wait that's so fucking annoying yeah I mean I've been told everything under the sun honestly like what like I've been told you know everything like you're the best you're the worst you're horrible you should get fired you

should you know you should get a spinoff like oh you're like yeah you're like the spinoff thank you absolutely okay that's kind of annoying what do you see that on like social media or like in person people say that both 100% both like I've definitely been recognized and they're like I literally hated they're like oh my god you're Debbie I literally hated you like oh cool they're like can I get a pic I'm like you sure you want one yeah Mr. Hater fuck you wow okay um have you shot a sex scene I have okay can you not straight up nudity that I've I haven't agreed to that when I turned 18 the producers of shameless asked me if I was comfortable like doing nudity and I told them I was not because I started the show so young that I thought

it would be weird for the audience to like see me go there oh that's really smart yeah just I thought that'd be weird I'm not saying I like wouldn't do it if it was like you know in a project I was passionate about and I felt comfortable enough to do. But yeah, for Shameless, I didn't feel comfortable like showing any actual skin. So you just did heavy make out scenes and shit. Yeah. And it's like implied sex scenes is what they would say. How awkward are those scenes? They can be awkward for sure if you don't have the right partner.

I've had people like where I've had to do like hook up scenes and it's, you know, maybe not not my first choice. You're like, oh, it's not who I fucking take out on the street. But you know, and then like how, and there's like how many cameramen in the room, like no one's getting turned on. No. Okay. Definitely not. Um, I mean, maybe if my scene partner was like my actual partner in real life, maybe it'd be different. I have an experience to that. I know people who have, and I'm, I think they actually feel even more uncomfortable in those situations which I would personally because for me it's like I always think about this it's like I don't really I'm not

somebody who like wants to show PDA yeah with like my partner in in front of especially not my friends or my family but it's like I'd feel a little bit more comfortable if it's like random like and you're just like holding hands on the street being on a set where it was like drugs alcohol sex when was the first time you drank oh my gosh the first time I drank that's a funny question um I don't even know how old I was I think I was I think I was like 13 or 14 like yeah maybe give or take I don't really remember how old I was but um I was in New Jersey with my friends and we like had I think it was like white wine or something like a bottle like a water bottle we were like walking around New Jersey we'd go to like the quick check I remember the the next morning like I was like I was hung over and you're like what is this because I had

you know right sip of the wine but did you ever experiment with drugs I did I um it's so it's you know public knowledge that I I went to a rehab treatment and I'm honestly really grateful for that experience I it's interesting too because I I got all of my, like, fun, quote, unquote, out before I turned 18. I'm grateful for it, to be honest, because, you know, maybe certain people are more inclined to trying things. And I was that personality. I am. I guess, you know, your personality doesn't change. Right.

So I'm glad I got it out of my system. I think it also had a lot to do with like being restrained and you know my parents like I love them bless their heart but they were trying very hard to make sure I didn't do those things and it kind of pushed me to do the opposite I think that makes sense but now I'm an adult and it's like I could do whatever I wanted theoretically but I choose to not because I I'm not interested in. So you went to rehab and like what were you seeking treatment for? I was seeking treatment for drug, alcohol abuse. Did anyone like stage any kind of like intervention to get you there

or did you decide to go on your own? Kind of. It was a mix of both. Like it was like my mom and my dad and my friends that were all very concerned and were very worried about me like and I would you know I liked to think that I was like doing like the things that I was doing in like a selfless way in the sense of I wasn't sharing the stuff with my friends and I wasn't doing that in like a it's all mine like I didn't want my friends to be doing the same bad things

that I was doing so like I wasn't like sharing it with them and I wasn't really talking about it much but they could just tell and know what was going on I did want to get better as well but it took you know a minute to for me to actually want it as well I appreciate you saying that because there's so many young women that listen to my show and every time someone comes on and it's like open about an experience I feel like I mean you're gonna get dms from this episode of people being like thank you like it's really cool to have someone sit here and be open and vulnerable I love being vulnerable too it's like you know even with the show and stuff and the scenes I had to do that were uncomfortable it's like at the end of the day it's like you're just one person if you can make a bigger difference I'd love to yeah and if someone

can relate yeah and be like oh she goes through that because there's nothing worse than feeling alone in your situations like nothing that's there's nothing worse than that literally nothing worse so you're not alone if you're listening did the substance abuse at all affect your like job at the time like were you like fuck no weirdly and I mean yes it did because it's it wasn't healthy and it wasn't sustainable but I have vivid memories of being up all night and then ubering to set before I even got my driver's license and having a bloody nose in my trailer like at 15 and you know but I would always get to set on time because I'm a Virgo I was always on time but it wasn't sustainable it wasn't healthy I was miserable on the inside and on the outside as well were you like confiding with any of your like cast members like were they helping you like they knew what

you were going through they would definitely be able to tell what was going on and they were very concerned and were definitely trying to help me but I wasn't I'm a very like closed off person sometimes so in 2018 when you talked about rehab were you at all concerned about like the optics of like what it would do to your career you're like no fuck this I was maybe a little bit but I also was like people have their their problems people have their their things and nobody's perfect everybody's got their thing and And it's like, you know, that might have been my Achilles heel. And it also was freeing, honestly, because I was living in such a fear as well that like, what if I get exposed? Like, oh, my God, like all these horrible things

could happen. And I was like, I honestly want to take the power away from the possibility of other people saying it and kind of control the narrative. I think that's fucking amazing. Yeah. Very powerful and good for you. Thanks. Like just being like, you know what? Like this demon, I'm like, nope, I'm going to conquer it and I'm going to go handle it. And that's amazing. Yeah.

How have the people you or have the people you surround yourself with, like, has that changed? No, like it. It I mean, yes and no. Like I definitely back then when I was, you know, in my dark times, I had my party friends and like they weren't my friends that I would ever even get lunch with. I would meet them up at the freaking club. I don't talk to any of those people anymore. But my main friend group has not changed. I would, you know, they would maybe come out with me to parties and stuff. Sometimes back in the day, I'd have my like random club promoter connects. And I'm just like, I look back and I'm like, what is wrong with those people? Like, why were they inviting 15, 16 year olds to the club? Get a life. You look sad. It is sad. And it's weird. It's concerning. It is. What would you say to anyone who is considering rehab, but is like scared and they feel like I'm too young? Like that couldn't be for me. It's a good question. It's a good question.

It's a good question. Cause I felt that too. Like, honestly, when I was 18, I was like, am I really never gonna do a drug or anything again? Like I'm only 18, but you really just change your view on yourself, I think. And like what you want to bring into your life. And at the end of the day, like everything we is like um going to create the bigger version of ourselves I could I actually had a

friend that was struggling with substance abuse and was like I'm literally like in my 20s like so you're telling me I'm just never gonna have a drink again right and so I I kind of get what you're saying of like right there is no harm let's put it that way in just pausing and working on yourself 100% at yes it's like I don't even want to say nothing is forever because some people need to know yes say to themselves I'll be sober forever maybe that keeps them sober or whatever it is but um yeah but maybe for me it was more of a nothing is forever like maybe I'll be able to change my perspective on things one day. But I haven't and I don't plan on it either. You answer to yourself.

And maybe certain like things help other people too. Like some people maybe have like a negative vice. Maybe they have a positive vice like working out. A lot of sober people I know smoke cigarettes. Yeah. And you know that's not good either. Like they'll smoke like a pack a day and that's you know. So I guess you just kind of got to pick your poison.

What is your relationship to alcohol and drugs now I don't do drugs um I drink I mean I'm not like alcohol was really not never my problem to be honest I'm not really much of a drinker though like I'll have my Aperol spritz I like it I like a tequila soda but um I don't really like to get like drunk yeah I don't like the way it makes me feel like I'll go through. I'll definitely, you know, go weeks without drinking. And I'm just like, I'm just I don't like the way it makes me feel. Yeah. Bottom line.

This is Call Her Daddy. So I have to ask a little bit about dating love the whole thing who was your first crush my first like celebrity crush or like real crush maybe celebrity that's more fun okay my first celebrity crush i loved one direction you could you you could say Harry Styles was my first celebrity crush that's actually follows me on Twitter which is pretty crazy oh okay humble flex and as everywhere you go you should make that comment every interview oh I I do you're like oh don't worry it's it's my talking point at the bar you're like flirting with a guy you're like oh by the way no big deal no competition but like Harry Styles follows me on Twitter anyways um wait a minute actually I

actually um before I had my first real kiss off screen I went to the One Direction movie premiere and Harry Styles kissed my cheek I was like oh my god like hi like and he had already followed me on Twitter and like I guess he like likes liked the show at that point so you should start with that every time like who was your first kiss harry styles and then you dial it back you're like well well yeah my cheek but like i consider it that's a great fucking story holy shit i know i just remember blushing and like beet red my mom was next to me your mom's like get in the car you need to relax yeah mom this is the best day of my fucking life holy shit okay that's a great story did being on tv help or hurt your dating life any specific examples i well i don't fully know but i think it i don't know it made me

more aware of things like i was always very always very, like, anxious that I was getting, like, used or whatever for being on TV and that, like, somebody didn't like me for me and that they were just, like, trying to, like, maybe, like, you know, be with a famous person or on TV, whatever. Did you ever catch anyone doing that? No, because I was, I wouldn't really put myself out there. Like, maybe I, like, I would catch it before it would ever get to anything right if that makes sense have you ever been on a dating app I have definitely been on Raya oh yeah I love how you blush a little we need to we need to normalize being on dating apps you're like don't look at me I know you're right we do need to

normalize it we do need to normalize it I just hate the stigma it's like if somebody's on it it's like I'm not I wasn't on it being like i'm looking for a like a relationship but you don't need to feel that way though i literally you're right we need to stop it's like it's easier to meet people and you can vet them and you can wikipedia them i also like to like look at who's on it and i'm like oh i recognize them right and then you can like do your research before yeah you can't do that at the bar you gotta you know sometimes you gotta have your ipad with you so you could screen record to send your friends who you see because you can't screen shot it's so hard dude don't sue me ryan i know ryan's gonna like kick us both off no we're too

good um we're too good to them no that's actually yes moving forward no blushing i was on raya i'm the worst i blush proud i it's i literally like i am notorious for just blushing at the drop of a hat. You blushed more at that than the Harry Styles kiss. Stop. No, I'm blushing again. Like, please stop. Next question. OK, did you ever have a personal relationship with anyone that you met on a set?

No. Oh, you keep it professional. And if I did, I'm not going to fucking tell you, bitch. No, no, no. Like I wasn't even like my goal was like to try to keep it professional you're like and if I did I'm not gonna fucking tell you bitch no no no like um it wasn't even like my goal was like to try to keep it professional like I remember when they would write you know me like a lover on the show or whatever either show they do I would be like yes please please somebody I like and you know it never would be no offense to my sorry guys tv lovers yeah who did you have a crush on on shameless i think i already know this answer yeah it's i i honestly there was a few people but um spill the tea so tell us so first shameless crush was jeremy yeah he knows it we all know it his wife knows it we laugh about it it's great

it's just weird too because i'm like he's literally like my brother it was like maybe the pilot i was like he's just so cool like yeah jeremy's just dope and he's so nice dude you're nine and he's hot for sure no one's like mad at you for that him and then um also justin chatwin i had a crush on wait which one was justin he played jimmy steve oh fiona's boyfriend and um he was pretty fucking hot yeah i remember this one time actually somebody on set knew that i had a crush on justin or whatever and she goes um emma look she was like it's justin she was like your crush or whatever and i'm like 10 i'm like beet red and everybody's like stop it to this you know one person that is so oh that wasn't that was i have plenty of stories in my brain oh my god i'm so sorry dude that's not me stirring the pot yeah stirring the pot but like i how many times

like my sister an older like family friend would be like alex like look who's here and i'm like i am 12 and i write about him in my diary go fuck yourself that's so i'm sorry let's empower people and not try to bring them down also like if you've confided in someone that you have messed up dude yeah like in any realm of just like trying to like point something out like you know those girls that are like try to embarrass you in front of somebody you like yes they're the worst it's because they're insecure they're insecure they're mean they're insecure have you ever been in love I have been in love I I have been um I think a few times and yeah it is great it's I it's such a special feeling like I honestly remember the first time like I was I realized I'm you know in love and I I have you know my boyfriend and oh you're in a relationship no well I'm talking about my ex-boyfriend when we were dating.

And yeah, it's a very special feeling. Like I remember before that I had always just thought like, am I even lovable? You know, and it's like then you find somebody and you you have all these random things in common with them that you're like, that's so random. Why do we both have this? Like, why did this happen to both of us? And it's beautiful. And then, you know, then you either you stay in love and you stay great or you don't. Or you heartbreak.

Have you been heartbroken before? For sure. Of course. And for sure. That made me so sad when you just said, like, am I even lovable? Yeah, I think everybody. I mean, maybe not. But I know I definitely used to like think about that and then yeah you know I think once you have that first kind of real love

you realize you are lovable and yeah that's a good point I was about to be like oh and then I'm like oh wait no I remember like feeling that in high school like before you have that guy and you're like what is it about me like and especially if all your friends have someone and then you're like what is going right for sure you start to like look inward and think there's something wrong with you but it's really like you just haven't found the right person yeah okay final question okay what is the craziest thing that you've read about yourself on the internet and what is your response randomly there was an article once that I died which is so random I feel like a lot of people have had those but i was like where does

this even come from and why do they care like there's an article like i mean i don't think it was like it was just someone's it wasn't the cover of the new york times but like i i definitely saw it on my google alerts and it wasn't your google alerts and you were like wait let me and i'm like yeah it's my pulse you're like wait am i wait what the fuck maybe it's all maybe i am dead and this is all just an illusion i'm in heaven that would be a fucking crazy podcast episode i like look in the camera and like you're not there i'm like what the fuck emma kenney um twilight zone thank you so much thank you this is so fun thank you for coming i had the best time

well there you have it, Daddy Gang. I hope you felt a little bit a part of the Gallagher's crew for a minute. And I know I got my shameless fix and now I want to go rewatch the entire thing, which I've already been doing. I thought it was really fun to get those inside moments just of a show that I know so many of us are obsessed with. And I really appreciate Emma opening up about herself and her experience on the set so daddy gang you know the drill in one short week you'll blink and all of a sudden we'll be back and there will be another episode and just as I say it every fucking week I will see you fuckers next Wednesday.