Call Her Daddy - Fletcher: Should I Go Back to My Ex?

Episode Date: October 12, 2022

Fletcher joins Call Her Daddy and is ready to expose her dating life. Alex and Fletcher reflect on their exes and bond over toxic themes in past relationships. Fletcher explains how her need for independence created a fear of intimacy, and ultimately led to her hurting partners. Alex gets vulnerable and discusses how she used prior relationships as a source of validation in order to mask her insecurities. The pair debate when to go back to an ex, how to know if you’re with the right person and if breakup closure is even possible!

what is up daddy gang it is your founding father alex cooper with call her daddy fletcher hi hi welcome to color daddy i'm so excited to be here i'm so happy to have you here i hate when podcasts do this where it's like we were just talking offline but we just started we sat down and you were like it's so weird to see the studio no I know because I've been watching so many of you know like been listening to you for so long and then I just the room I thought it's a it's more cozy and like closer than I thought it was it looks really spaced out but it has it totally captures the vibe of like what I've been watching and listening to so I'm happy you're clarifying because I feel like I always watch shit online.

I'm like, is that a house? Is that a set? No, I know. I've been wondering, like, where is this? Is this a set that we're going to? This is technically the master bedroom and we just turned it into the set. And I'm just at the dad pad. You're at the dad pad.

Daddy gang. I hope you feel like you're here, too. Now that Fletcher's like, let me give you the inside tea. It's not as big. The shit sucks. No, no, no, no, no no no it feels like it's cozy like it's cozier it looks like really spaced out and like yeah like if we wanted to like so close so close yet so far you guys okay so Fletcher you are a musician I remember the first time I saw one of your songs on TikTok and I was like who the fuck is this?

Can you tell me just like a little bit about like this rise? Like I feel like all of a sudden you've just been popping the fuck off. You are thriving in your music career. What has been going on? Yeah, it's been a bit of a wild journey. I mean, I've been I've been putting music out for a bit, but my debut album, Girl of My Dreams, just came out like two weeks ago and my music is like very like if you were to open a diary and just kind of read what it was like that's just becomes my lyrics and so there's this very like unhinged chaotic just like emotionally um telling like quality I think that exists and like what I talk about and what I'm interested in and relationships and like all

the weird shit that like comes with that. Talk to me about why you chose your stage name to be your last name and Carrie is your first name and like what is the difference between the two? Is there a difference? There definitely is quite a separation I think between Carrie and Fletcher um Carrie's like kind of a fucking grandma like I sort of live under a rock not that cool like and then Fletcher is this like bad bitch energy that I step into when I go on stage it has this like really like don't fuck with me like I am just I it's like an alter ego in a sense like Fletchercher is very like main character energy and then carries behind the scene, like keeping us grounded and being like, are we sure we want to say that? Like, let's maybe not go there.

A little bit of imposter syndrome, really like just nervous, anxious. And so there's this like there's this balance that that exists. But yeah, like having like my artist project and fletcher has just i don't know allowed me to like step into this energy in my life that i've just really been trying to cultivate of of um just like liberation and freedom and like genuinely knowing and believing that life is too short to give any fucks about what people think about you and like how you're going to be perceived and I think we all have this inner desire to be liked right we want to show up and we want to be liked and come across as all the things like even today on my

way over I'm just like so I was so nervous like come on this podcast I fucking like crystals in my pocket do you actually crystal no but I'm the same. I want to be. I hope you like me. Like that's yeah, I hope you like me. Sometimes it just takes a little you getting out of your head and almost like fucking faking it, whether it's literally an alter ego or you leaning into a different side of yourself that you're like, oh, now I feel comfortable. Do whatever the fuck makes you happy.

Even if you don't believe it at first and you're like, I everybody's looking at me. Everybody wants to talk to me I am magnetic right yes like if you just I even if you in my pants I fucking crystals in my pants you guys I've got rose quartz stabbing me in the asshole as we speak um but like over time it actually becomes true it sometimes can feel corny and I like appreciate what you're saying because it's not it's literally like well why wouldn't we live our best lives and I kind of love that that's like the theme of today's episode is like fake it until you feel it because it's your fucking life why your best friend's the main character in your fucking life no that's sad let's talk about Becky so hot because it's first of all it's so fucking catchy

talk about the story behind this song okay oh it runs so deep I don't even know where to begin but the inspiration behind this specific song Becky So Hot is I was in the studio and I was writing a different song at the time but I started scrolling Instagram and I was creeping on my ex's new girlfriend obviously like we gotta you gotta you gotta suss out the vibe absolutely you gotta see what's going on yeah don't lie everyone you've done it we've done you've done it you've done it my mistake I'm scrolling I'm like creeping around she posts a picture wearing an old vintage t-shirt of my ex's and it's one that I've worn in the past as well and I was like oof that stings and

then I look I'm like looking at the picture I'm like she's so hot like she's literally so hot and then I accidentally liked the picture on Instagram and I did one of those like I threw my phone across the room I was like fuck but also I was like you know what I'm gonna own it I'm not gonna I'm not gonna untap it we're gonna leave the like we're gonna commit to the fact that I was creeping and then I was like we're writing a commit to the fact that I was creeping. And then I was like, we're writing a song about how hot she looks in this vintage t-shirt. And then that's my song called Becky's so hot. How did your relationship end with that person? Um, there was like a lot of, it was like a on and off again situation for for a long time and it was just it was a matter of like I have like I've got attachment issues and I was like I I have had a history of like

really like losing myself in relationships in the sense that I knew that there was like a point in my like a point in my life where I'm like I need to find myself and like be connected to that person and the person that and I think I've hurt people in my past um and you know I there was there was like peace at the end of that relationship but there was also you know like relationships like breakups can be messy are they still together they are still together yeah they're still together and um it is something that's painful to look and be like oh god I like hope this person's not hotter than me but it's also my like friend Kelsey Bellarini talks about this too but like two things can be true at once like it can hurt right and it can sting but then you can also recognize that it's like I also get

why this person moved on like we didn't work out like moving on and growth and closing doors even if it hurts is like a really healthy thing it's an opportunity for a new beginning for someone that I like cared about and loved and then also for me was it healthy though because you just said you had attachment issues so we need to unpack that do you usually leave relationships yes I'm always the one foot in the door one foot out the door why do you think kind of person I have like a really like fearful avoidant like attachment style that I am like really trying to I think I have this fear that like intimacy and closeness equates to losing my freedom and like my autonomy and, so I have this like real fear of that, like being too close to somebody or relying too heavily on someone means that I, um, I don't know that I

like won't that I lose my sense of self. I get that. And then when you said you've hurt people, is it because of having the attachment issue? It's come across as like pretty noncommittal, you know? And it's like, even if I like really, really deeply love and care about somebody, which is true. Like I, I feel with like every like ounce of my being to a fault, like, um, but I, yeah, I've been, I, I think I've always just been like a really independent person. I always think it's interesting when you get out of a relationship, you're always able through time to gain like perspective. And you can look back at the relationship, not now with any clouded judgment of still hurt and wounded feelings or whatever it was that you left with. When you look back at that relationship, what is something that you know

you want to take into your next relationship that you valued? And then what was something that you were like, I can never deal with that again? I think like, I have a bit of like, I've been a bit of a people pleaser. And I think there's been a like in order to avoid losing someone there's been an element of like I don't want you to go anywhere and so I want you to be happy and so I've like compromised some like personal desires and wants out of fear of like losing connection and so learning to

communicate what it is that you want actually in the long run ends up like people end up staying and it becomes their choice it becomes somebody else's choice to stay or go based off of what you're sharing and it's like hey this is kind of like what I this is where I'm at and you don't have to have the answers like you don't have to know everything but it's like this is where I'm at this is kind of what I want this is what I'm desiring like is this possible you know and I love that because I feel like that's such a huge point of I mean even through therapy I started to talk about it my show of like how awful guys if we're just like in a fucking relationship because we're basically forcing them to be because we're like basically not being ourselves you're doing people pleasing things but

you know in your heart you're like I don't want to be doing this but I think it's going to make them stay and it's like why would you want to be with someone that doesn't want to be with you like be yourself and see if they reciprocate want to stay if not get the fuck out and so I get it's so much easier said than done but you can fall into patterns where you're like working so hard and it's like you're supposed to be able to be your full self and not have to be like making decisions to almost like keep them on a leash so that they and most of the time it's like if you actually chilled they would actually probably want to stay it's always the opposite right but when you're in that mindset because I've had it too like I've had this also very like attach like anxious attachment to where I just am like oh my god I feel someone pulling away how do I make sure that they stay right and it's just like

people are if people want to go they're gonna go if people are gonna cheat they're just gonna cheat there's like nothing that you are going to do about it. And I just, you know, I had like a very like really intense, volatile, like first love relationship that just, I saw so much of like wounding and I was like, oh, that's exactly what I don't want to be. And I feel like there's still a lot of things that I'm unlearning from that dynamic. And I've definitely done, you know, we all, but we also like, it's so easy to just be like yeah do this and be like this but I've also

done like some petty as fuck shit tell us can I say can I talk about this yeah I'm just talking about this of course you can talk about it let's call her daddy let's just call her daddy I've actually never talked about this in an interview but one of the craziest things that I've done is, so I was, Oh God, I was hooking up with this, um, boy in college. Okay. That ends, he starts dating somebody else. Okay. I start dating a girl for a long time. She cheats on me with the guy that I was like making out it wasn't serious we were just like making out you know and she cheats on me with this guy okay so then I and then so me and her break up right and so then I fucked his ex-girlfriend no no like Fletcher just with the actual mindset of like I'm gonna do this in spite

they were broken up granted so but i'm just going for it yeah i was like cool you come for my territory i'll come for yours how did that make you feel like a bad fucking pitch if i was not healthy guys yeah but as my therapist is like let's unpack that no but i i totally get that and I think sometimes listen I think the concept of like not like revenge but like fuck you like let's be petty I think sometimes again almost like not taking ourselves too seriously obviously don't put yourself in a position where you're actually fucking hurting yourself and you're going out of your way to like ruin someone's life but there's moments in life where I actually think

it's okay to be petty because sometimes we fucking need to do it. And you learn from it and you're like, you know what? Would I take that back? Nope. It's just about the balance. And I feel like if any it's just about the balance. That's it. If anyone understands that, it's you.

You know, like I've just been like following you since the days of just like talking about like. Sucking, fucking. Sucking, fucking. Let's talk about abortion. Glucking. All this. And now it's like, here's here's the growth fucking, let's talk about abortion, glucking, all this, and now it's like, here's,

here's the growth, but, two things can be true, we're still, we have to honor the full range of the human experience, you're killing it in your career, successful, beautiful,

great personality, what are some of the insecurities, you're like, do you want to keep going, like, are you flirting with me, let, what are some of your insecurities and what are the insecurities that you bring into a relationship that's such a good question I've had an issue with like self-doubt is just so real and like

trusting yourself and trusting that you are like enough like even driving over here today I'm like I'm gonna, I'm going to be on Call Her Daddy. Like there's been so many way more famous people and bigger people on this show. And like, what am I going to show up and talk about? Like what's, what's interesting about me or just this imposter syndrome of like, do I deserve to be here? Like sitting on this couch, having this conversation.

And, um, I think that's just like a really natural, like, because we live in a society that puts so much pressure on success and like hustle culture and it, it, you get so swallowed up by this idea of just like where you think you need to be and by what date and what time and like the measurements and the barometers of success that exist for us are just so damaging. Yeah, I love that you're saying that because I think that's one of the most relatable feelings of just like self-doubt, not feeling good enough, constantly comparing, looking around because we obviously have social media everywhere it feels like and it's like you feel all the time I feel like when I'm looking at social media like I'm behind like oh I'm I'm not up to date with something or I don't know how to do something or I'm not like and it makes you just feel like you're like chasing and it's just like wait why can't we just be like chill where we are and good and self-doubt is such a normal thing and you do deserve to be here yeah you're doing great sweetie you're doing great sweetie i'm just i'm

always here for like the real the real conversation i think i read this somewhere you said you're a serial dater and you've just been in constantly in relationships what are you like in a relationship should we should we call my exes I was gonna say actually speed dial call them right now because don't you think there's two different answers to how would you describe yourself in a relationship and how would your exes describe you in a relationship yeah I'm going to say like my answer is going to be very different from people that I've dated but I've just both of them I've just been I've been in like pretty um consistent relationships like my whole life I'm like Carrie in those relationships like Fletcher is you know reserved for the stage I'm I'm kind of kind of I'm grandma Fletcher but yeah I don't know that's such a hard I've never answered that I don't know

how I am in relationships I think it's like the side of me that just I just have such a desire to like uncover things and like know people on like a deeper level I'm so intrigued by it and curious and like I think we just live in a world that just never really wants to go there I think that's why I like love you so much too just because you're just like you go there with people and it was so funny coming here today I just was like so nervous because I just I'm like I feel like I'm always the one in interviews that I am just dishing out a lot of information and then I'm like feel like I'm meeting my match today with somebody who's I love it how are you in relationship Alex Cooper that was not meant for you to flip it on me but um how am I I think in a great way I can now be aware that I have been so different through my we call it like our dating world I guess like when I started in high school I was so focused on making the guys like me and kind of like you talked about that like people pleasing or whatever

it is that you are trying to appease someone. And it's like, do I even like this motherfucker? Like he's actually so annoying and disgusting and I don't like him, but it's, I was doing it for the validation and also for status or whatever it was for to get invited to parties. And I didn't even like the guy, but I feel like I played that game for a while of not even checking in with myself. I wasn't in therapy. I was just trying to get validation. I was super insecure therapy I was just trying to get validation I was super insecure when I was younger so I once I had like a little glow up I would find guys that would give me attention I was obsessed with it it was intoxicating I never wanted to stop but I wasn't actually ever feeling emotionally connected to them because it was all just surface level for

me liking the attention and then I think once I got in therapy I started to be like oh wow I've gotten really deep now I need someone that is going to go there with me and I need someone that can get underneath and not just a surface level and I think that made me definitely a little bit more emotional relationships I definitely stay very closed off until I feel super comfortable with someone which I think is a good thing like you don't want to open up but I do think it pushed people away to be like do you even fucking like me like it's been five months we haven't had sex like yet like I'm putting in the work I'm taking you on dates and um but yeah I think it's like an evolution of like cracking yourself down of like who am I and then finding out who you're going to be in a

relationship and so no shit I was fucking going and appeasing the men because I was fucking insecure shit of course I didn't expect to get fulfilled other than like tell me how I look tonight like oh my god and then I think you just as you go more on that journey of just like learning what it is that you want and showing up for yourself in a different way and like being more confident in yourself that then opens the door to like totally different types of relationships and totally different types of people end up coming your way because you're like oh okay I actually don't need this one thing anymore that I was seeking validation for in other people so then if I don't need that one thing then that kind of eliminates an entire category of people right so then you're opening yourself up to somebody that's more secure

in themselves and that just like allows access to like different conversations and like levels of like depth that you can even access in somebody and then I think that also applies to friendships even like this idea of you're like I hope everybody likes me at this party you know I'm like I and then you're but then ask yourself and like I and I still do this and I'll check in and be like or if somebody doesn't like me or something I'm like do I even fucking like them right like do I even like this person why am I do I want to spend my time with this person actually yeah like ask yourself that like do I want to hang my time with this person actually? Yeah. Like ask yourself that. Like do I want to hang out?

Do I even like this person? Why do I care so much how I'm perceived? And I feel like now it just clicked for me when you were saying that because it's like we go back to like what happened to when you're younger. It's all like be polite, like especially as young girls. It's like be polite, like be a lady. And like how are you treating them? Like are you being respectful? Are you blah, blah, blah? And it's so much polite like be a lady and like how are you treating them like are you

being respectful are you blah blah and it's so much about appeasing other people's needs and being focused on making sure the exterior looks good rather than like hey do you even want to go to that person's house for a sleepover do you even like them yeah i'm like no i fucking hate them they're bullying me mom like but it's like you don't I don't know it's interesting it's like a lot of it is focused on others and I think there's something I feel like I've noticed on social media a lot of people will be like someone's um an egomaniac or they're selfish or they're cocky or they're whatever it is and it's like I think we have to like especially as women we should embrace that like be cocky be fucking confident like who gives a fuck because

a lot of us haven't been able to be for so long because it's like be a lady be nice and it's like no walk in the room and fucking have confidence even if you have to fake it call her daddy yeah interested to know like are you someone that has ever been in that cycle where like you break up and get back together with someone and you keep kind of going back for a little bit consistently tell me about it how do you break the pattern what do you do help the girls listening oh god girlies I just have to help me help me help you like fuck it's just it's really hard to like it's really hard to let go of people and I think we it's like really heartbreaking I think we just want to avoid hurting so much and um the idea of moving on from somebody is like a terrifying thing and I am still you know I've been somebody who just like always could revisit and I'm always I've always been

someone that's like hey hey, is the door is the door still open? Like just in case, you know, but I'm also learning that it's like you have to close doors. You have to close doors to be able to make room for new things in your life and new energy. And those things like are not going to come to you if you are if your energy is being taken up by something that has like been there done that my advice is always like if you go back will anything be different right and if the answer is like no because it's been a fucking month or even though it's been a year and like i know they're still an asshole or we're just not meant they don't even need to be an asshole you may just not be meant to be together I always think it's like if you go back would

anything be different no then I actually think you genuinely need to give it like years yeah two years one year even like it's kind of short like changes people or it wasn't meant to be but to like keep doing this back and forth you're wasting both of your time because nothing's ever going to get actually solved within that short period of time. There was an issue of why you broke up. That's not getting solved within a couple of fucking weeks if it was that deep, obviously. No, because then you're just like getting back together out of this, out of a place of fear. And so if it's like, if you were to just take a step back, right. And it's like, okay, how do you actually, what do you, what do you actually want? You know? And if things do,

if I think it's possible, I think it's possible for people to find their way back to each other. But I also very much believe in this mindset that like, whatever's meant for you will, will find you. And, um, you know, whatever's not like you'll, you'll find what it is that's like, right for you. And,'ll know when that happens. But it's so much easier said than done. Like I've been such a messy bitch in relationships. Like I genuinely don't have much room to speak. Like I have no, I like don't take any of my relationship advice.

No, but I like it. I just write, you know, my like first EP was called You Were in New York City for me. And I wrote that about like this girl just ruining New York City for me and like fucking my life out. Like horrible first intense heartbreak. And then my second EP was called the sex tapes and I quarantined with my ex-girlfriend and I wrote this EP about our on again off again thing and and then she directed all the music videos for it and then like I like like I am like you're speaking to like an unhinged but I think that sometimes it's good to hear the unhinged because it's relatable of like we don't all have the answers and so if we all

come together and hopefully like just tell what's worked for us or what's not working for us everyone can pick and choose what they take from it like it's helpful to hear someone be like yeah help me because I'm fucking going through it someone's gonna going to listen and be like, thank God I'm not the only one that has now gone back 17 fucking times and they can't get it together. Yeah. Me and my ex had broken up like more than like eight times. Yeah. And but it like the other thing that I think might be helpful is like you're never going

to fully get closure. That's the other thing is like I was always searching for this like it's just not over yet like it's it's you know I'll know when I know and it's like sometimes you just don't you're not going to get that like satisfying piece of information that you're just like oh it's finally time to close the door and I feel good about it like you might not feel good about it you might not ever feel great about it like there's just it just comes like you got to tap into this deeper knowing of like I'm this is not good for me anymore this is not good for this person like let's just walk away from this even if there's parts of you that are like but but but but but like you have to lean on the fact that it's like you you you

know when it's time you know when it's not good for you anymore I fucking love that I really do because it's like there's something about the word closure that I feel like is expected for every relationship like well I'm gonna go back for the the conversation so I need closure you're not gonna get fucking closure you just want to fuck one more time you want to have sex you want to have hate sex right and then you're definitely not gonna get closure and then there's no closure everything it's we're legs open now it's worse now it's worse okay it's worse so I appreciate that and then it's like well if you can't get closure you're left so open wounded and it's like that's where working on yourself because like you got to be fucking

strong because what happens like you said you go back because we're it's fear it's like it's comfort you don't want to go out and try something new let me just go back it wasn't that bad then you start to make all these excuses just why to go back you don't want to be alone you've been had your texting buddy your fuck buddy they're your person your best friend whatever the fuck they are yeah and now you're about to be alone have to go find a new stranger to absolutely not terrifying not fun not fun not fun but it's not supposed to be fun exactly like it's okay that it's it's okay to sit in this period of discomfort yeah like we just as humans like cling to familiar familiarity and like what we know because our brains actually can't even possibly perceive something that we've never experienced before so it's like I know it feels

so icky but just sit in this period of discomfort because I promise you'll find so many little things about yourself that you're like oh my god wait like you uncover these little bits of magic that are like you don't get otherwise and they're so essential for your growth and yeah no it's so true it's also like I feel like we've all seen it I always say like you always see the friend go through the breakup and they're like I can't do this you're like yes you can and when it's not you you're like bitch give it a fucking month and you're gonna find someone new and then they always do but when it's you oh you're drowned every minute feels like an hour and a half you're constantly checking your phone every like every notification

stop seeing what they're doing stalking it's it's not good but what is the best also thing to keep in mind is like the faster you get the self-strength to be like okay i'm cutting it off i'm moving on i'm starting the rest of my life away from this person the sooner you get to then find the next fucking person that possibly could be your person yeah this ain't your fucking homie okay you're not saying with this person if it's already broken and you're not even like in this long term or you're not married or whatever the fuck your expectations are for a long-term relationship if it's already fucking like not working get the fuck out but don't you find that like when you're

in like deep in that situation and somebody tells you or if your friends tell you like you know like this you'll the next person or anytime someone mentions the next person it gives you this like that that was so hard for me to hear because I'd be like deep down like deep down I'd be like no but I wanted to be this person like stop talking about that yeah and so it's like it's also okay to be like yeah you know what I promise you genuinely will find love again and you will be in a new relationship and like but it's also okay to not go there and not think about that right now I hate when I completely agree with you I hate when friends are like you're gonna get over them and like find someone so new and like it's gonna be

amazing and it's like shut the fuck up because then you think about then you think about them getting over you and it's like god forbid spiral spiral spiral like you don't want to think about it and there's the comfort still even if you fucking hate them at that point you're like but i don't want to fully find someone new you're not ready it's like no no as a friend just be like it's time for you to move on we got this let's have a lot of nights together as friends like don't put pressure on the next thing because we all fucking know the next thing comes when you're not looking for it as all they write in books but then it's actually fucking true okay so everyone just focus focus on you for a little bit and just like take it to this moment take it to this day like what little bit of pleasure can you find in this day like go fucking

pick up your favorite tub of ice cream go just like go watch a movie with your best friend like call your friend like you don't need to and you also don't need to like figure this out today you don't need to heal today you don't need to be like you know like a bad bitch by tomorrow and be like I'm over everything and everyone and nothing bothers me it's like no we're just let's take it back to this moment and just like it's okay to move slow I love the move slow and also again back to social media you're gonna see people then being in like these happy relationships no they aren't usually or if they are that person probably wasn't a couple months ago maybe they didn't have that person or a year ago like they have their moments we all have our moments just focus on yourself have you ever been cheated on yes I have been cheated on how did you find out

um I I point blank asked the so the story that I was telling you about with the girl in New York in New York that ruined New York for you that you ruined New York City I I asked some I asked the boy and I was like did you guys fuck and he was like yes she said that you guys weren't together anymore it's a really hard thing what I find is like in relationships is like what's my anxiety and what's my intuition of um knowing you know I'm like having a feeling if something's going on or what is anxious and like what's looking for a problem um and so yeah it was in that setting it was very I just had some deep intuition that was like, there's some shady shit going on. You can't have New York City still ruined for you.

Is it ruined for you? It's been unruined for me. I've gone back and I've had new experiences with new people. Yeah. And like, that's what I've learned. That's been like part of the growth process is like never give somebody the power to like ruin a space or something for you because that whole concept was like you know somebody there's like certain tv shows you can't watch foods you can't eat smells like everything kind of triggers a memory and that whole city did for me for a long time and so I just I'm like you know what I'm not going to give somebody the power

to take an entire city away from me I think that's so relatable because I definitely have had people right and I've experienced it before where like the city of Boston was ruined for me by a guy for a while I'm like how the fuck is a city ruined but then you have to be gracious with yourself like okay wait there's really really hard memories that were left there that they kind of either owned that space almost and you had to flee like how relatable is it when you lose all the friend group almost because that relationship was all their friends or that's what happened they brought you to all these places and now you're not going to go show up at those fucking places or the restaurants or whatever the fuck the bars and so i think it's

actually really normal to like grieve the loss of actual like places and things and movies and like you said literally foods and scents yeah but then eventually one day you're gonna wake up and be like oh I don't actually care as much anymore because I've had time pass and I've done things that have made me kind of disconnect from associating those things with that person yes yeah literally it's just time and even just finding like solace in the situation you know it's like I actually I genuinely as as messy as that sort of was like I don't hold any resentment like or any hard feelings because it's just like life is just too short to just hold on to that energy in any way and I just I'm like you know we were like kids and we didn't we were just

everybody's doing the best with what they have at the time and not to like excuse cheating or anything by any means. But it's like, I don't know. I just I hope she's well. Yeah. Shout out. Have you ever cheated? I've never cheated on anybody. That's great.

No, I've never cheated on anybody. I've attempted to navigate like open relationship dynamics. And I think that's like kind of complicated territory have they ever been successful um no they haven't been successful uh in the sense that it was I've tried it I've attempted it once and then I've not been in like a committed monogamous relationship since my last relationship and so you know I'm just I'm like very much in the space right now where it's like I am my own primary partner and like that's my priority but also I think there's always such like a rigid idea of like what dating is and it's just

you know it's like me and this one person forever and it's like I think that works for some people um but I think I'm very much in this like phase of my life of like exploring what it means to me to have connection and like dynamics and like relationships in a way that's also like I'm prioritizing myself. And it's like I'm, you know, I'm dating. I'm dating me like this is who this is. This is the this is the main character energy that we're giving. But no, I've never cheated on anybody. I've had a lot of people write in to me. And it's kind of what you're saying of like, there are so many people that struggle with, am I with the right person?

I love them so much, but I've only had two partners in my life. And I love them so much, but like, I think I may want to explore a little bit more. And I can't imagine the, I can't imagine the feeling I've had it before of like oh my god I know I actually love this person it's not because I'm like even wavering like I do but is this a person for the rest of my life like I don't know if I'm done yet and so I think people panic and I feel like my advice to that is first working through it with yourself a little and then you actually have to bring it up to your partner because what the fuck are you gonna do well I'm too scared to end it and and so I'm just gonna stay and then for the rest of your life you're

like I wonder what it would have been like like what the fuck we're alive once like you gotta do what you want to fucking do don't just stay with someone because you're scared I get it's hard but I always feel like if it's meant to be like maybe you do have to find a way to either maybe it's not an open relationship maybe you pause the relationship and you go date and then you find your way back but you'll be resentful of that person if you don't articulate your feelings of your wants and your needs and even if they like, I'm down with you and I literally don't want that at all, then you have to make a personal decision for yourself. Yeah. But at least you're getting some clarity on the situation and that can like help inform you, you know,

even just being able to speak about it with somebody. I think it's like a really, and we shame ourselves for having those feelings because it's terrifying. You know, the idea of being like, is it just me and this one person for the rest of my life like I have so many friends and people in my life that are in like long-term relationships who are really deeply in love and like are a good match with the person that they're with and even that they're having these thoughts of being like fuck is it like is this it it's scary and it's really scary and it's like so normal and so fine to be like questioning it I think we should be questioning everything in our lives at all times like it's not just because you are one way today doesn't mean that you're

going to be that way tomorrow or a week from now or like a month from now like I agree with that and it just made me also think because I'm like wait guys I have to take that back it's not always you have to leave the relationship sometimes I think if you're in a long-term relationship sometimes you just like lose yourself a little bit in the dynamic of being in a couple relationship that you're obsessed with and you love it but you got to be like hold on why do I actually want to go explore do I really want to go have sex with people do I really want to go in Iraq with people and then if you're like I don't think so then what is it you have lost your alone time you've lost your passions you've exactly so it's like reignite that and

focus on that because sometimes it's like you actually don't want to go explore it's more of have independence yeah so it's like you don't have to like blow up what your whole situation in your life to feel different feelings it's like express what it is that you are craving more of in your life and talk about that with your partner versus just sitting on these feelings and then they sort of fester and then that's how people end up cheating on somebody. They're just like, because they just feel so out of control in their life where it's just like, I just need to have control of something. Right. And then it's like weird decisions get made. And I think it's just a matter of like, how do you open up to somebody and, you know, and just like actually

access like those parts of you that, that that you hide that we hide so much of. Growing up, what was something you felt you had to hide or you struggled with alone? Hmm. I grew up in a very small conservative town and I knew from a really young age that I was queer and that I liked girls and I didn't. And it was something that I kept really, really, really hidden. And I didn't know how to talk about it. And I didn't talk to anyone about it. And then I also really struggled with mental health as well. I had like pretty severe obsessive compulsive disorder and intrusive thoughts. And it was really terrifying. And my, I love my family so much, but it wasn't something that was discussed, like mental health wasn't talked about. And I felt really crazy. And I felt really alone and really by myself. And it wasn't until I went to college that I was able to explore my sexuality.

And also, you know, I was a mental health studies minor at NYU in college. And just simply because I was like, I want to understand my brain better. I want to understand what's happening and be able to like put words and context to these things that I'm feeling because I don't know where else to go and I didn't know how to ask for help and then I remember like getting a copy of the DSM for you know which is like a book that is all the like the bible the bible for mental health mental health and I remember reading about OCD and I was like oh my god like I just had so many light bulbs I'm like there's a word for this there's a word for all these like weird little behavioral things that I've been doing and these obsessions and

these like thought loop patterns. And I'm like, Oh, I can like, there's a word for this. And then I was like, sought out a therapist. And, um, but my journey with mental health and discovering sexuality were both like really closely intertwined with one another and two kind of coexisting things that um were really hard you know growing up how long did you keep it completely to yourself I didn't tell so I was like growing up I was like in love with my best friend and um from when I was like 12 years old and it was this really funny thing and I didn't know I didn't realize that's what it was I just had this like obsession with my best friend and I'm like do I want to be her do I want to like and I just always wanted to be

close to her and I wanted to like hold her hand or just like just be really close I was like obsessed with my best friend and so I was like it was this fine line of being like, Oh, do I just really value my like female friendships? Or do I have like crushes on my friends? And, you know, it was a combination of the two for sure. And I just, I, you know, I just remember and like, we would like we would kiss each other. And like, we would have boyfriends. And I would be like like and we would be like, let's just practice, you know, for boys, for the boys. And I just would that would happen. And I'd be like, but should we let's keep practicing. Let's practice again. One more session.

Tomorrow after math, should we practice again? And so, you know, it was never something that was like verbally even discussed though and it wasn't until um yeah until like later in my life like when I was like 19 did I was I able to even form words about being like I think I like girls um but I remember I remember my mom driving me to middle school one day and Katy Perry's I kissed a girl came on the radio and I just like had such a visceral reaction. My mom gasped at the lyrics and I was like, fuck. I was like, I was like, I think I was like, why do I love this so much? I was like, I think, I think I want to kiss girls. Um, and then I did, and it's really fun. Were your parents, like, supportive?

I, it was, no, not at first. I'm really fortunate in the sense that my parents have made, like, such a 180 in terms of their support and acceptance and understanding. And, you know, I've, like, quite literally made a career out of, like, signing boobs and singing about kissing girls and like, and my relationships. Um, but no, it didn't, it didn't start that way. It was a really, it was really difficult for a really long time. I also grew up Catholic, um, and going to church. And that was like a really big part of my upbringing. And so I think there was just a lot of, uh, unlearning on both their part and my part of just, I'm like, okay, how do I find my identity within, you know, like a system or something that has told me I was wrong for such

a long time. Um, and so it wasn't, it wasn't that way at first. And so it's that's just a testament, though, that it's like sometimes it takes people time. And, you know, my mom has now since like since said things to me that she's like, you've taught me what it means to be a human being and like what it means to really love and that that exists and that can happen from people who just seem like they're so not accepting or not tolerant of like anything yeah um I think that's like very unfortunately relatable that people like we hope one day and like again nothing to your parents it's just almost like what they've learned and then the generation before has learned and it's like we're hoping to break that but I I think a lot of people can relate to being like I don't even know how to tell my parents I know they're not going to be accepting but like in that moment when they weren't how did you get through that like what did you do I just I think there's such a thing as like chosen family and connecting and finding people that do see you and will hold you in that space. And that can be difficult too, because if you're, if you're not in a situation where it's

like safe to share like parts of yourself like that, just even holding on to this like deep inner knowing that like you are so perfect the way that you are. And even if you are not, even if your external world isn't reflective of that in this moment, like there is a time and place that it will be. And just like hold on to that hope that it's like, this is going to be okay. And I knew it was, I'm like, there's just no way that there's going to be this wall between me and these people that I love so deeply forever. Like, and it's also understanding that it's like people and how you were talking about like older generations, it's like people, our parents deal with so much like their traumas and their, and their parents traumas. And, you know, people are doing the best with like

what they have at the time and it's like we have to allow that room for for growth yeah I think that's such a it's like I feel like that's been so on my mind lately because I recently released this Roe v. Wade episode and there was a woman that I remember meeting that was on like the crew that I was working with and she was so upset during one of the interviews and I was talking to her afterwards and I was like why are you so upset she was like I grew up super super conservative my parents are super Christian and it was only until I got to college and got to experience life outside of what my parents had taught me which they were taught by their parents um that I realized oh my god I don't believe the same things as my parents

and that's okay but it makes me upset she was like because I believed that abortion was sin and I was gonna die blah blah blah and then like talked about personal experiences that she it's just like so interesting that like there's so many things that are interconnected of we learn things at a young age and that doesn't mean they're right and then hopefully everyone can catch up of whatever you decide to do is your decision and we don't mean they're right and then hopefully everyone can catch up of whatever you decide to do is your decision and we don't have to just go based off of what our parents told us when we're younger because like what the fuck do they know half the time you know what I mean but I appreciate you saying like you also have to give it time sometimes when

they have been like trained to believe one thing and the fact that it I mean you're so fortunate your mom came to be like love you yeah now my mom's out here like cheering me on as I'm like signing signing concerts she's just like so stoked about it do you stress out about your content that it's so about your life and how does it affect your relationships and are people like oh my god i'm freaked out to date you because you're gonna write songs about me like how does that mentally how does that go in your head to be an artist that has like made a conscious choice to talk so openly about my life and like I'm sure you connect with this in a lot of ways too is like a really weird thing because you're opening yourself up to so much like scrutiny to opinions to you know opinions about people like questioning the way that you live your life or

like what you talk about or and it's a weird thing too and something that I've learned to hold back on in a sense is like I won't speak about something now if I'm not ready to yet if it's something that I'm still kind of processing I think I've had this thing in the past of being like this just happened let me talk about I have an interview in 10 minutes with gay times let's I just got off the phone with my ex I'm gonna fucking word vomit and then it's like in print forever I really chaos so much and I've done it pause yeah and I've gone on an interview like full tears crying they're like girl you good and I'm like not really I just talked to my ex five minutes ago and like so messy yeah messy but great content that's even great content right and so it's like

where do you draw this line between because my personal life fully has it's caused like a lot of even with this like last bit of music that i've been putting out in this album it's like very personal about like what it's about and it's about like specific things and relationships and people and there's like real there's like a real person on the other side of that and so it becomes this really difficult thing of like how do i honor myself and my process and my feelings and my life I'm a songwriter I fucking write about my life like I draw direct inspiration from I have nothing else what else do I know right I'm not gonna talk about my neighbor who she's fucking every week nope

which she's always having people over I'm like girl how you get so much action can I come over I'm like can I get involved I'm like what are you doing that I'm not that's your next song it's like yeah about my neighbor has the best life I've been getting so much song I don't know if you see my brain working over here but there's been a couple things that you've said that I'm like song song song so you're gonna let me know if you'd make so you're gonna love to know or I'm gonna give you publishing oh no because it obviously came from this conversation I would literally just want to play it and listen to it and be like oh my god we did talk about that we did that is no I appreciate the honest conversation that we're having today because it's refreshing to just go there and not be embarrassed to be like I don't have all the answers I don't know

what the fuck I'm doing this is some of my insight from my successes and my fuck ups and like take it or leave it. And I think that's refreshing because sometimes on the internet, it's like step one, this is what you're going to do to get over a breakup. And it's like, shut the fuck up. That's not going to work for me. So I appreciate it. Your tour starts next week.

What is the behind the scenes? Like what is your work party life balance? What is happening? Are you raging? Are you not? Are you keeping it together? It's so funny that you asked that I'm like currently trying to, I feel like one of my life lessons that I'm coming into right now is finding this work life balance because there's so much, when you step on a stage every night and you're performing to like a few thousand people, it's, um, it's so much energy that's like being projected

at you and thrown your way. And it's such a a high and so you get off stage and you're just like shots like we gotta like gotta celebrate we gotta like there's you have to like expel that in some capacity and um I also I'm from Jersey like I like you know I like I love to party like I love my tequila I love going out and like it's such like a social thing for me um but it but it's also, I'm also at this phase of my life where like being really hung over gives me so much like anxiety and the hangovers are just not cute anymore. It's like, I don't know how it happens, but you're just suddenly like, you're miserable, you're miserable. And so, and I've been, I'm about, this is my fourth tour of the year that I'm going

on so I am just like I think we just I'm gonna try to have a sober tour that sounds so boring and it's definitely not gonna happen and I've on I've been not drinking for one week and I went out last night and it was so interesting to be a sober person amongst like drunk friends how did it go it was actually like I felt like it was like a human experiment like I was just like watching like weird little like interactions take place and just I'm like oh this is so funny to be on the other side of it you know because I'm usually like the one being like do you think we're embarrassing when we're drunk when you're sober are you like this is so stupid it's not like you guys like I'm a I'm like hammered like two you know what I mean but I just it was funny just being on the flip side of it last night where I'm just like, oh my God, people are so funny and how just like inhibitions are sort of,

people are just expressing different truths and things that they would never say sober. And I just, I'm like, wow. Whoa. Did you have a good time though? I actually really did have a good time. Like I never thought that it would be possible to go out and have a good time sober. And then it was kind of like a weird challenge because I have like a lot of like social anxiety and I get really nervous really easily and like different I get overwhelmed by stuff um and I had a good time I appreciate you saying that because I remember when I was younger I would always say to my mom like well like why can't you guys just buy the alcohol so at least you know that like I'm not getting it from a creep like that's like the

stupidest also like thing to do to your parents. Like dad, just buy me the handle instead of the creep. And like, but my mom would always be like, you don't need to drink to party. And I was like, yeah, I do. Then I, there's been moments, whether it was like sports or whatever you go and you're sober and it's like, Oh, like, okay. If you're good with yourself, like I totally get it. Anxiety can make you be like, I need to have a little something in order to like be chill. But I do think it is a pretty good test to try to see like, can you go out and try to be sober? Because not relying on substances is a positive thing sometimes, right? Totally. And I think it's a challenge of like

presence too. I think there's so much in our culture and society and there's such, you know, like, like an insatiable appetite for like constant stimulus and, um, to try to fight against that and be like, how can I show up with more presence in my life is something that I'm like working on right now. And, um, and so last night was just like a very you know I'm like new in this journey of it but it's been like an intention that I want like leading with intention in my life like I'm gonna go and show up sober to this vibe and like see what kind of happens I still love tequila like nobody get me wrong like I'm gonna be drinking in like seven like you're like I'm like a week so clear if you guys see me on tour and I did say it was gonna be a sober tour

but if I am drinking fuck off you didn't see me drinking yeah like if I am drinking this conversation truly never happened no I appreciate that and I think that like a lot of people can relate to that when like I've had people write in be like what do I do I feel like a fucking loser that I'm not drinking for whatever reason like no you don't also never need to explain yourself I like there's so many people that are like what am I saying and just say like I'm not drinking like leave it the fuck alone and I feel like most people get the social cue to like not push it but I feel like there's something with confidence to own like whatever you're doing in a social setting if you have confidence and you're okay with it then who gives a fuck but I get it there's a social pressure of like why aren't you

drinking totally and everyone last night they're like, like, do you want to take shots? And I just I noticed I'm like, if you show up, I'm like, OK, where I walked out of the door, I'm like, I don't want to drink tonight. Like, I know that I don't want to drink tonight. So if you show up with a boundary, right, and then you break it, it's like you're kind of not really honoring yourself. And sometimes that happens. But I was like, I want to show up for myself tonight, you know, and just like I just show up with a boundary and honor that. And yeah, just was like no I'm not no I love that

because how many times have we not honored that you're like I'm not drinking tonight and then you show up and the first person the first person's like shocked and you're like it's like a shot I'll actually take 10 thank you so much I'm so thirsty I cannot thank you enough I know the daddy gang is going to be obsessed with you. You are so authentic, real, open. Like, I think we went everywhere. We did. And I really feel like it kind of embodied your music and my podcast in one episode.

We just had a weird baby. We just had sex and had a baby. We gave birth. And this is it, Daddy Gang. But it feels right for that to be on Call Her Daddy. That is a perfect collab. Perfect collab. Fletcher, thank you so much for coming on. This Call Her Daddy. That is a perfect collab. Perfect collab. Fletcher, thank you so much for coming on.

This was a blast. Thanks for having me.