Call Her Daddy - Hilary Duff: Life & Love After Lizzie

Episode Date: February 25, 2026

Join Alex in the studio for an interview with Hilary Duff. Hilary discusses on and off relationships, trying to do it all as a mom, and how to maintain intimacy in long-term relationships. She also sets the record straight on some of the most iconic 2000’s moments and reflects on her Disney Channel days. Enjoy! Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

What is up, Daddy Gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper, with Call Her Daddy. Hillary Duff, welcome to Call Her Daddy. Thanks. You've been busy. I know. Girl. I know. You have been busy.

I know. You're on tour. You have an album coming out for the first time in 10 years. I feel like my friends are really sick of me actually on their feed. They're like, we don't ever see you. And now we just, our, like, Instagram is just full of you. The internet is Hillary Duff right now. Every single time I open, Instagram, TikTok, anything, I'm like, okay, Hillary.

You're like, I get it. She's back. I get it. How are you feeling about it, though? Honestly, I'm enjoying it a lot and I couldn't have asked for like a better welcome, you know? Like everything has felt so like celebratory and like kind and like like, like, energized. Like I just, that's just like the word that I keep coming back to where I'm like, wow, I really didn't realize it was such an appetite. And like I'm, you never know how it's going to go.

Like I really took a huge break. And the, like, first steps have been like a dream. So, but it's super hard. And like the back half that's not shiny is like a lot of moving parts and a lot of scheduling and a lot of work and a lot of like, you know, I have four kids and a family that I really like being with. So that's what I'm so excited to talk to you about today because I think there's probably so many women who are like, we know we can't technically do it all, but it really looks like you're literally doing it all.

Also, I thought it was funny. I was researching this morning and everyone's kind of calling this like the Hillary Duff Renaissance. They're like she's back. In what ways for you has this kind of felt like a rebirth or like a reintroduction of you. It's this like combination of like forever my husband and I were just like this is going to be a sick victory lap and we kind of kept calling at that. And it's really cool to be at this stage of my life and just have ownership over myself and like what I feel about things and my opinion and what I will and won't do and like not knowing and having to ask and like just this whole

like I'm just so much better and like clearer and like to get to have the the opportunity to go back and like celebrate things that you know I didn't feel like we're mine anymore um is like I'm just really looking forward to it can you can you explain a little bit more about what you mean by like you didn't feel like they were yours anymore. It's kind of seems heavier than it is, but even like thinking about what my, my set list is going to look like and what songs I'm going to be comfortable putting on, you know, actually doing with my body on stage and, or like singing lyrics of songs that are 20 years old and being like, what is, how do I, how do I show up and like, just,

just make this me. And I think before rehearsals, it felt like those weren't quite mine yet and I didn't know how to make them that way. And then I was like, just started tearing it up. And I was like, got it. I'm here to eat. And like, it's easy. And I feel far enough removed from it that I'm not like embarrassed or uncomfortable. Like, they're mine and their mind to keep. And like even the with love dance. Like that was like a like the internet lore around the with love dance. So good. So good. But like for me, horrifying. Like absolutely horrifying. But like now I'm like this is I get to be a part of it and it's way more fun. Which I think is life. Like I've interviewed so many people that were child stars and it feels like a pretty prominent theme in a lot of your lives is like having enough distance from that really, really loud

in your life that everyone remembers you from. Or just that everyone can dig up. Yes. Like, well, I would love for like, it's just, it's a hard, you got to be tough, you know, because that is to grow up and have everybody to like recall all of your, all of your, like, chapters is a wild experience. And have footage and pictures and commentary. Receipts.

Tabloids. Like, everything you could imagine that, like, everyone when they were. in their awkward middle school phase that were like, thank God. Like I didn't post that picture. You're like, well, it was posted of me. I didn't have an option. Correct. And I feel like what's so underrated is like you have had decades of sustaining a career,

which is very few people are able to maintain that. I feel like that's really nice. And there's been a lot of highs and lows in my career. Okay. Well, we're going to go through all of them. But I did want to just, I was going to quote you because I'm like, I get it. Like you've done moments where you're kind of like more in the spot. Light versus not, but you told Vogue last year that you operate from a place of, does anyone still

care about me? I wanted you to talk a little bit more about what you meant by that. I think there being a child actor and doing something that made such a big mark on people's like literal soul created a lot of confusion and like a pretty big battle scar on me where I'm like, do people feel that like playing a role on TV that never grows up like she's just there forever right and so getting into my like late teenhood into like my early 20s and even like early 30s where I feel like the battle of like frustration that like do people love me or do they love that character but yet everywhere I go people, you know, say, you raised me or like whatever. And like now I'm like confident enough and like fine enough. And I think I love my new work enough to where I can like

celebrate the old. You just feel like, wow, will I ever do anything that will like resonate with someone the same? And then you carry that as like a you're not good enough or it wasn't, you know, Meanwhile, like, I've had an amazing career. Like, younger was career highlight. Love that show. Love that show. So fun. So good.

People didn't really find it until it was, like, done. But, like, that was a huge part of my, something that I said yes to that was really scary because I had to, like, be in New York and be away from my child. And, like, but, like, a huge growth period for me of, like, oh, I'm doing something good. And, like, stop measuring. Like, I don't have to continue to measure all. all of my projects and the success that they've had. It's interesting you say that because I feel like some musicians I've talked to

if they had a number one hit ever come out, then they're like, shit. Because you come out of the gate so strong, which a lot of people are envious of. But you're like, but now that's kind of the barometer of like where I have to hit. And having a Lizzie McGuire moment, you're like, change your life, change so many other people's lives. But now it's like, I hear what you're saying. You're like, can I ever live up to that? Yeah.

Which is why I think this era is so exciting for your fans. Yeah. Basically today I'm like, we need to give a little nostalgia. Of course. And then though I do really today want to get to know you more as the woman Hillary Duff, because I agree you've talked so much about your younger years. I love to visit her now. I'm good with it.

Okay. Let's go back to people who may not be familiar. You initially get the role of Lizzie McGuire. Can you just like kind of lightly tell the story of how that's, audition went and how you even got the role. Yes. So I actually had been replaced off of a TV show that was an ABC show. And they replaced me with twins so they could like work longer hours. And I was like, yeah, I was probably 10 years old. And I'm like, I got fired. Like, can you imagine? Because they're not two of you. Yeah. That is. By the way, when you're a child actor, you're like,

you need two of me? Okay, how do I make that work? Like, You're like a dog. Like, just want to please, you know? So that was really devastating. And I was like, I want to go home. I don't want to be in L.A. anymore. I went back to Texas, started going to real school.

And my mom called me and she was like, they want to see you for Lizzie McGuire. And I had auditioned for a bunch of Disney Channel shows before. So they were like familiar with me and called me a lot. I never booked any of them. And I was like, no, whatever. And somehow I got out to California. Like, I changed my mind. I got to see my friends for the weekend.

like my Oakwood apartment LA friends. And I was not prepared. It was a pretty big monologue, the audition. And I used to be pretty prepared and take auditions seriously. And I was like 0% prepared. And Robin Lippins, the casting director, was like, you didn't even look at this. And I was like, correct.

You're like, sorry. She's like, can you come back tomorrow and know this? And I was like, oh, challenge accepted. Let's go. And I worked on it, came back, ripped in there. As you should. She was like, what are your special talents? I was like, oh, I prefer to walk on my hands more than my feet.

Like, I think I was just wacky. And they were, and like, I think I came in with like mismatched clothing because that was very me. And then I got it. Wait. And how old were you when this was happening? I think I must have been. like 11 turning 12 or had just turned 12. And then we shot the pilot and then didn't shoot for a while. So I remember like not getting my hopes up. I remember my mom being like, don't get your hopes up.

Remember like what can happen? Like it's exciting. We're going to be excited. But like not getting fired at like 10 years old from a job at first. Like that'll scar you. You're like. Or being the star of the TV show. The TV show is literally called Lizzie McGuire. And you're like hope it gets picked up. And if it doesn't, like, I'm failure. Probably I sucked. Yeah. Oh. You're like. You're like, like no pressure as an 11 year old basically, 12. How do you think playing Lizzie as it continued, like started to kind of shape and inform your personality? I think that she was kind of like the everybody's girl.

And I also feel like I've always been that. So, um, and also like a little, I have this very weird mixture of like I'm always been confident in who I am. And I think that she had that, but she was also, like, kind of dorky and had all these, she didn't really fit under one category. And, you know, that's why I think she was so, like, like, lovable and endearing. And I feel like I've also still kind of carry that. But I just can, like, dress chic sometimes. You're like, my fashion has gotten better. Thank you very much. Lovely. You, Lizzie, but I moved on, okay? You can say over there, I actually, like, Sheik as fuck. You do. Obviously, I'm thinking about you even just being like, oh my God, like growing up and Texas and all of this. Like, then the show becomes a massive success. And you quickly become one of the most famous young women in the world at the time. Like, do you have any core memories of realizing like, oh my God, I'm now like famous? Like people know me. Yeah. I was at the fashion square mall, like about to hang out with my friends, which we did all the time. And there were.

Beverly Center too. There was like posters of Lizzie McGuire on the like circulating things. And I get like mobbed by kids. And like somebody that works at the mall like sticks me in basically like a cleaning closet or like some like closet where they keep supplies or like and just like pulls me into the back and they're like you need to call your mom or call someone to come and pick you. Yes. Hey mom. We forgot that like I'm basically famous. now. I'm in the broom closet of the mall. Like, can you come get me? I'm trying to act like a normal

girl and it's not working out for shit. Wow. I know. And then after that did you realize, like, maybe I can't go those different places? But then the other thing that was happening was like, it wasn't that cool to be a Disney kid yet. Like now you're a Disney kid and you have like this massive career. That wasn't really, it's not like you have like mad respect because you had a Disney channel show and you were like starting to be a singer. Like that was pre everything. Talk to me about your life at home. You become this big star. Like, how did it impact your normal life at home?

Honestly, it didn't until later. Like, some things changed later. But, like, my mom was pretty strict. She had this, like, weird combination of, like, she trusted us. But she was, like, you don't get special treatment because you're on a TV show. You know, like, we had been out here. kicking around for like four years pre me getting Lizzie McGuire. So like she would, I remember she would like take myself.

Later when I was like 18, I remember she tried to take my cell phone away and I like sassed her so bad and I was like, I pay the bill. She was like absolutely not. She's like sit down. You're like, okay. Yeah. I feel like there's kind of like this known reputation you have as one of the few child stars who escaped the major pitfalls of Hollywood.

Do you feel that way? Do you feel like you got out pretty unscathed? Yeah. I think that there's no – I think that people look at me and think like, oh, she's had it easy maybe, and I definitely have not had it easy. But I feel okay. Like I really just feel okay. I'm like, I did not like go crazy, I guess.

And I think that a lot of that could have to do with my upbringing and feeling, you know, like I was protected when I was a child. But this industry is like really fucking hard. And it's not until you're like, you take some space away from it that you can zoom in and be like, oh, that was a weird thing that happened. Oh, that was. how did I get through that? That, you know, there's that. And I think it's taken getting to this age to be like, give myself, like actually take some credit for how I navigated it.

What do you think for you internally? Like, not all the noise, not all the people around you. What internally did you have to tap into to kind of get through that period in your life? So it's tricky. And again, it's been something that I've been able to like dive more into through like therapy and really being like, well, why did I do that? Or how come I feel this way? And if I, whatever, like, the thing that was also cool about it is being a teenager.

And you're like, I don't give a fuck. I just want to hang out with my friends. You know, like I had a desire to just be like normal and be doing normal kid things or teenager things and adult things. So it was this weird, those things were like existing at the same time. And I think it was like a reprieve from not being able to like fully grow up or take the reins was like just escaping with the normal part of my life that I could go to. Yeah, that makes sense. You kind of have to like find your outlet.

Yeah. And I like, you know, cared about my boyfriend and just like all that other stuff was annoying to me. Yeah. And then eventually you would deal with it. I did. Okay. Let's go through. We're about to move on from this younger phase of your life.

But I do need to know a couple of things. Okay. Are you ready? Okay. You're like, I don't know. What are you about to ask me? Okay. Did you intentionally crash the Freaky Friday premiere?

Oh, my God. The lore around this, Hillary. I think absolutely. Yes. Yeah, I was a teenager. Wait, were you surprised when Lindsay Lohan showed up to the cheaper by the dozen premiere? No. No. I mean, that was like my childhood feud, like, nemesis. So crazy. I know.

So you. I mean, I can't wait. I'm sure my public has been like, what the fuck are you doing? But now it's so many years later, like, who cares? It does not matter. Also, like, Lindsay came up to me at a club once and was like, are we good? I was like, we're good. She was like, let's take a shot. I was like, okay. It was amazing. But also like Chad Michael Murray invited me. Why? Would he? I don't want to start any more stuff. But like, he was like, you should come with me. And I was like, mm-hmm. Probably I should. Honestly. I mean, what was I like six? No, I think I was younger than that. The millennial girls are screaming at their TVs right now. Next. Is it true that you had military training for your role in Cadet Kelly?

Yes. They really took it that serious. Oh, yeah. I just need you to know that I literally bought up. I think I could still do like a rifle thing. You got a rifle around here? Oh, no. But you like, no, I think that we don't.

You remember. I think I would remember something like tap, tap, how you like handle it and like flip it around. And it was basically like baton kind of. But with, well, there was baton ribbon in that. Oh, yeah. Oh, I remember. Yeah. We were at a dance studio in Toronto.

I remember. And like Christy Carlson Romano and I would like, walk from this hotel that they put all the like actor kids up in in Toronto and go to this like dance studio down the street. And it was really intense. That movie was doing our own stunts, girl. It was so good. I remember I like bought cargo pants and like was trying to be like that vibe. And I was like, what am I trying to do? Like I was in Pennsylvania like literally trying to be you and I was like, I need to stop. Okay, next. This is one of my favorites. You had an on screen romance with pen Badgley in Gossip Girl. I will never forget where I was when I found out Ms. Hillary

Duff was going to be in season three of Gossip Girl. I was shook. Was it season three? Season three. I know. I looked up because I forgot there was like 90 episodes per season. How were you approached for the role and like why did you want to do it? I was approached by the creators of the show and they were just like, we would love to have you on Gossip Girl. And I was like, I love Gossip Girl. And yes. And by the way, I grew up with Penn Badgley. You did? Yeah. So I grew up with this like apartment complex called Oakwood Apartments and he was a lakeside kid.

But sometimes we would like all hang out. It'd be like if you went to Campbell Hall but someone goes to Oakwood and you like all. And was this like little actor vibes or just like normal kids and you just happen to know him? Some kids were normal. Most of them were out first. Okay. Okay. So you were like you knew him immediately when you stepped on set.

Yeah. But honestly, that was a tough. I think they were kind of all sick of each other. the time I got there. It wasn't like, oh my God, we're hanging. It's fun. I was like, oh, I'm showing up to a job. Right. You're like, tension is pretty high right now. It felt pretty high. Yeah. We need to talk about the threesome that shocked the worlds. Because when I tell you that threesome, I was like, to those who don't remember, it was Dan, Vanessa, and you. Yeah. And the world was so pissed. Do you remember the world got really pissed? No. Because they were trying to force the Dan and Vanessa romantic

take vibe and we were like stop trying to make it happen it never should happen. Oh, okay. And then I think you were in the threesome like hanging out in the corner and Dan wasn't like he was going for Vanessa more. I need to rewatch this. I was going to say, do you know, can you tell I've watched this like a million five? It's amazing. I was getting like the shaft. You were getting the shaft because it was like Dan and Vanessa like finding their romance and you were like, Dan like why am I even here? Like I'm the famous one. Wasn't I like a famous actor? You're a famous girl in it. But I have to tell you something funny that happened and sometimes this happens when I I'm in Europe.

And, like, Lizzie McGuire happened later after my music in, like, Europe. Oh. Yeah. And so I wasn't, like, totally known for Lizzie McGuire there right away. Okay. It was more, like, my music stuff. And then some people, I think Lizzie McGuire got huge there, eventually, whatever. I was in Paris not too long ago on a girl's trip with two of my best friends.

And my bag didn't make it. And the girl at the airport was like, are you from gossip girl? And I'm like, yeah. And I get obsessed when things like that happen. So sometimes like weird gossip girl fanatics. We, that's so good. Isn't that funny? You must be so happy in that moment. You're like, yes, I am from gossip girl. I don't remember what my name was. I don't remember what my lines were, what my scenes were, but I was there. I don't. I don't remember what my name was so fun. Dude, that fandom is so crazy. I know. I was like, so can you get me my bag quickly? Yeah, because I was like in Gossip Girl.

They're like, is that Lazy McGuire? You're like, no. No. Gossip girl. Honestly, so good. Okay. I heard that the actor who played Ethan Kraft invited you to his high school formal in real life. Did you go?

Yeah. Okay. I went to a lot of high school formals. And at that point, you're famous. Mm-hmm. How did that work? The school was really excited that I was there. And I was just like, yeah.

I'm excited to be here. I didn't go to high school or middle school. You're like, I'm taking it in. Yeah, I'm like, look at all these people grinding on the dance floor. Me too. Let's go. Did people leave you alone? Like, I think enough.

And also you going with the Ethan Craft character is kind of a mind fuck because people were probably like- We went as like a group. Okay. So it wasn't like. No. Okay. And did you guys ever have a thing behind the scenes? Okay, no.

Ethan wasn't your vibe. But he did have a parrot that scared me at his house. Like, yeah, I showed up to the house and like, I didn't know that I was like standing behind a giant bird cage. and the parrot like literally punked me and was like, boo. And I was like, oh my God. And like the parent, parrot like knew how to like scare. Ethan.

Good old Ethan. I only know. I'm like Ethan. Ethan and Kate. Okay. Were you and Aaron Carter already dating before his cameo on Lizzie McGuire or did that like bud on that set? We weren't dating.

Also, this is where like all this stuff started. There was no social media to be like, who was dating who, right? God, yeah, yeah, no, no. So you just take people's word for it and then, like, people get mad of you. Wait, why? I mean, if you're like Lindsay Lohan or me and he's like probably dating both of us, like, you know what I mean? Oh, I see.

I see. Like, you couldn't just put up an Instagram story. No. Well, we're clarifying now. Also, texting was like pushing three buttons. T9. To get the, like, yeah. Oh, my God.

You and Cinderella story like, hey, what's up today? And it takes you nine hours. I just filmed like a social, like one of the. Like a TikTok. Yeah, of that, doing something for something else. And we're sitting there trying to get the LOL to come up. And I'm like swiping at the screen. And if someone was like, you need to stop doing that.

What? Does like old phone cell phone? To get LOL, you have to be like one, two, three. One, two, three, four. But it's so crazy. I called my son downstairs, who's 13. And I was like, I just want you to watch what this used to be like for us. He's like, no, I don't care.

He's actually so sweet. And he, if he doesn't care, he acts like he does. You're like, look what mommy had to do. That means, like, we were dedicated. If you had a text that you wanted to send on T9, I know. If you sent a paragraph, you were in love with someone. No, I know.

It was like, that was a lot of effort. That was a lot. And what about when you would make a typo and have to go? And then you're like, it's over. No, no, no, no. It was dedication through and through. Okay, so sorry, back to Aaron Carter. Yes.

I had met him at his birthday party. I got invited to his birthday party. I'm telling you the Olson twins were there. Who else would have been there? thought it was going to be like this huge list I could get you excited by like but it was the Yolson twins okay yeah so that's all that matters me we're like happy um maybe Amanda Bynes was there oh yeah I mean it was like the OGs oh my god at his birthday so I met him there there was like some cute sparks and then I think I pitched the idea of having him come on the show and then right we started dating

pretty soon after that I need everyone to go rewatch because I just did it this morning well I was I was putting my makeup on. The I want candy moment where you and Miranda are in the corner. And you keep doing this thing where you're like putting your hand in your hair. Why? You know, it's so good. Because you can tell you like kind of like him. And he's like, I want candy.

In a full silver jumpsuit? Full silver jumpsuit. Your hair's like and then your hair's all curled up. Cript. Cripped. And you keep going like this when he comes over to you. Hillary, it's actually, it's like an actual landmark on the internet. I need everyone to go watch it because it's so cinematic also.

It like holds up. It was amazing. Okay, good to know. Okay. Last one. Lizzie McGuire movie. It's important that you know, like to this day, peak cinema. Peak cinema.

Like also back to you getting fired for not being a twin. Hi, hello. You got your revenge because you ended up playing two characters. Yes. My four-year-old is very like, how, but how? How did you do that? I'm like, You're like, don't worry.

Okay, wait. So have they seen the movie? Yes, my four-year-old just watched it on a plane. I know. And when it was over, she just goes, I, she's sitting next to my assistant. And she was like, again. No. All of us.

She's literally all of us again. Do your other kids like the movie? Banks is like a Lindsay Lowhan stand. No. Yeah. No, honestly, Banks is like. like my number one like cheerleader to the max. So like she like, she obviously like doesn't know any of that stuff. I know. So it's actually amazing. Yeah. Um, what is their favorite project of

yours? I've not asked that. I don't know. You don't know. No. Have you showed them everything? No. I'm not like, let's go down. Everybody sit down. Stay away. I forget. I forget that it's like not cool of a mom to be like, now let's watch my next project. But for me, I'm like, they haven't seen cheaper by the dozen. I think Luca probably has seen cheaper by the dozen. I think. I think he was probably more interested in that because it was like boys and frogs and like football and, you know, things like that. But they've seen some of it. My same assistant put on like bunked the other day.

I know. And I was like, you should probably be putting on Lizzie McGuire. You're like, what are you doing? You're like, you're a traitor. What is this? Turn on Cinderella story now. Oh, wow. Okay, well, we need to know when they actually see that.

My four-year-old has seen parts of Cinderella story, and she's basically like, can we just get to the end with the dress? And she doesn't understand the mask and how he didn't recognize me with that mask on. I know. He's like, that's you, mommy. And you're like, but how would he not know? And I was like, no, I know. That's the age-old question, babe. That's the best part.

That's the best part of the whole thing. Okay. Thank you for going down memory lane with me. That was very fun. You gave us all we needed to know. I mean, you started working so young. You were like 11 years old. and you lived so much life at such a young age.

How did that impact what you were looking for and what you were ready for in your 20s? Oh, gosh. I was always like a relationship girl. So I was in like long-term relationships my whole life, really. Dating was not easy for me. And so around that time, I met Mike. I met my first husband. And we had so much fun.

And that just felt like a really solid like place to land, you know? Because you were 22 when you first got married. Yeah. So I was like 19 when we met. And we got married really young. And then I had Luca so young. And I think I was like very, I always knew I was going to be a young mom. I always wanted to be a mom.

I always wanted a lot of kids. So that was really, it was major. I mean, that was a crazy time, like to be, like, pregnant at 23, 24. How did you know you were ready for that with your career? I didn't care about my career at that point. Mike was playing hockey. I was, like, going to live with him for, like, months at a time, wherever he would play. And we were just, like, having fun.

And I didn't really care that much about my career. Yeah. Having been so young and lived so much life, like what did it mean to you when you had a child? Like what, like when you had Luca, like did it change everything for you? Yeah. Big time. I was so excited to have him to focus on. My life had been like so about me and like I didn't want all of that. I wanted, I think, just. something that felt like tangibly mine to hold on to and to focus on. And yeah, it was really fun. It was also really confusing. I had not a single friend who had a baby or was pregnant because obviously I was so young. My friends were like, are you serious teen mom? What are you doing?

Can you talk about that? Because I think that's like very relatable where a lot of my audience is either the girl that is having the baby that none of their friends are at that stage or the reverse where all their friends are having kids and they're not? Like, how did that impact your friendships? Well, my friends were all going out and stuff. And I was like, I'm not doing that anymore. Yeah. And that was kind of hard, but I didn't really care about that as much.

It was just, I think all the physical changes were a big deal for me. I think I gained like 50. pounds. I was pregnant with him. And I'm five, too. So that was like a wild, just like, oh my God, what has happened to me? But I'm trying to think one of my best friends, we've been friends for 20 years now. I remember she walked into my door late. And I was like, I think you expect everyone to get it when you have a baby and no one gets it. And you're like this major, like, all of a sudden I'm on a schedule. And like, if you don't know what it's like to be on a schedule because you don't have like a family yet, 20 minutes late. I'm like, this isn't like us a year ago.

This is me now where like my baby, like nursing a baby is not just like, oh, you're like, my milk's coming in and I've got to get like get this out. You know what I mean? And then the baby goes on for a nap. And if that doesn't happen, I get not a single minute to my day. You know what I mean? So like looking forward to seeing your friend and then them being late, you're like, it's over. We can't hang. And then also the nerves of like now I would be like, come. It's all good. But it's your first kid. You didn't know what you were doing. Yeah, you're just nervous. So my friend, sorry, the part of the story was that my friend like watched me like nurse my baby. my boobs were like huge and you're you know it's all like clunky and new and whatever and she

texted me and she was like I don't even it's crazy to not recognize you and I was like oh my god I know and later I was like you hurt my feeling so much by saying that but I know you didn't mean it like it must look insane right like I'm like nursing a baby and we've like grown up together and now this like crazy thing happened it feels like you're like a new person to her and really all you probably needed that moment is to feel like you haven't changed. We could just like eat a salad and have a hang. Yes. And like not feel like you're this outsider because everyone in your life is still clubbing. I'm like I want to hear who you just hooked up with and I wanted like things to be normal but nothing's normal. Right. Can you also share a little bit more about like

how your body image was affected by pregnancy? Because I think that's like I have never had a kid and I do, I would love to have kids at one point. But I think for women it's so hard because it's like you're expected to be everything for everyone. And you go through this like extreme change in your life. And women then, it's like the bounce back thing. And what do you look like? Like, how did you manage all of that? I don't know because I dealt with a lot of, I remember being, I think in Mexico with my mom or something, like four months after I had Luca and we had like a private home. there that we were staying at and a paparazzi got a picture. And they were like, Hillary debuts post-baby bod. And I was like, babe, I'm not debuting anything. You're taking a picture of me

at a private house when I think I'm with my family and my baby. And like, it's horrendous. So that's like so messed up. And I feel like it's getting better. And as I've had subsequent kids, Like, you're just like, oh, I recognize this. I know what it is. It's hard to get through this phase, but it's all like, it's all fleeting. You know what I mean? And so the more times I've done it, the less like weight it has with like dealing with your body changing and you kind of, I don't, you know, normal people don't have to like have

the noise, but you're sensitive. It's really hard. You'd look different, you know, forever. you're like feeding a child and you're supposed to know exactly what to do and you don't know exactly what to do and things don't always work out the way, you know, the pressure to feel like a natural mother like is a lot, you know. You had mentioned, I think, that you, like nursing for you in the beginning was difficult. And again, like as women, if you, if it doesn't go exactly as they tell you on the end,

internet and according to plan like sometimes there can be like shame around that like how did that impact your self-esteem i still could cry thinking about like just not being able to be you want to be everything for your kid because you grow them and you birth them and they're yours and you watch you know reels of like people just nursing their baby in public and it being so natural and like it just wasn't like that for me and i every time you, like, we would, like, weigh. This was with towns mostly, but, like, she wasn't gaining weight. And I'm trying to, like, nurse her literally around the clock. And that's my fourth kid. Like, just supplement. What are you doing? Like, you know, and you're just like, I was so stubborn

about it. I just wanted, I wanted it to work out. And it didn't. And, like, then you're two weeks out of, like, not nursing. And you're like, yes, this is the best freedom ever. But in that moment, you're like, how will I ever cope with this? How will I, why can't I be good at this? And, you know, Luca, I nursed him the most. It was easier then. And like, down the line, I just, each child got less and less and less. And now I'm like, who cares?

But in the moment, it's like you're so consumed. And I think by design, right? Like, we're designed to take care of our child by feeding them from your body. But, like, guys have to do one thing one time. So my husband says, he's like, I did one thing one time and like you have to do all of these things. And then it's all on you. Yeah.

Which is a lot. And I even have friends I know that we'll be watching that are going through that phase right now that it's like it is helpful to hear from someone so many people look up to and grew up with that they're at a similar stage right now where it's like hearing other women talk about it. I think it's like half the battle because it is so isolating and to just hear you even say like it actually got better as I just kept going. Because even if it didn't actually get better, I got better at handling.

how hard it was, which is life, right? Speaking of hard things, so you're in a different place than your friends. You're a young mom. There's scrutiny online, your body, you're figuring all this out, and then you go through a divorce. Yeah. And your child is not even two. Not even two.

Without, obviously, I know you have a co-parenting dynamic and I don't want to speak at all negatively about him. How did you know that it was time to walk away and that the marriage was over? It just got to a point where it wasn't going to, it wasn't going to be. Like we, we just, I think he was good with it because I was like, here's this, this, this, like, you know, and he was like, great. Like, we're, this was before conscious uncompling was a thing. And my parents went through such a bad divorce that I was like, Calling it made it really painful.

But like we're not together anymore. So obviously it was bad enough that it just wasn't, it wasn't working. And that was a really tough call because we had not even two-year-old kid. And I remember doing everything in my power to like have it be peaceful and have us hanging out and spending time together. And every time we would, you know, trade, it wouldn't just be like a drop-off pickup situation. We would, like, go to the park and hang or go have a meal. It was really important to me to do it in a way that Luca could feel, like, comfy. I can't remember the exact time I was, like, going to call this, you know, but it happened pretty fast.

It was just, it was a, like, you know, it was not, it wasn't working anymore. But I remember the one thing that was really hard about it was like processing that it was happening and it was going to happen and going through all of those emotions. And it was a really, it was a really scary time to just not want to fuck up your kid. You know what I mean? You put like all of your stuff aside and I had to like deal with all of that later to just make sure that like he was okay. And then, you know, you file for divorce. And TMZ literally has like an office at the LA courthouse. So they see every single paper that goes through.

So like within 50 minutes, they're like reporting. And then you have to like process it along the world, alongside with the world, you know. I did not realize that about TMZ. That's actually insane. Yeah. But like when do you think and how did you do it in terms of like almost like morning? what you thought your life was going to look like, I think is very relatable. And then you kind of don't have control over it. You had to make a decision for you and your family and your kid. Like when do you think

you were able to actually mourn that loss essentially? I haven't ever thought about that. I think probably when I started like dating again and like my divorce was finalized and we were, you know, co-parenting and stuff. Like, I think it was just something, I had a lot of therapy. Like, I, that was a very helpful tool to help, like, confront the feelings that would come up, you know? I was 26, 27. No, I was 27, 28. And that's, like, such a crazy time, you know, like, that's a very fun time of your life. And I started to, like, allow myself to have, fun through something really painful. And I feel like that's actually a very heavy theme in my life. Like this record, there's a lot of like heavy themes disguised as like joy because it's pop music.

And I feel like that is a huge part of like how I operate. Like this big thing can be happening over here and it's really hard and it's a struggle and I'm going to sort it out and sometimes I might push it down and deal with it later or like I'm going to be tackling it right now. But like I genuinely I'm like such a happy person that I seem to be able to like get through things. That's how you clearly survive those hard moments, right? You're like, I'm going to choose to see the positive in life to keep it moving. Also, I think I knew from my parents' divorce that like I was going to show my kid that you got to like fight for your happiness.

And I knew that it was going to be better to do it when he was younger than it was going to be when he was like five and aware or. eight and aware. And then kids put like a whole different element of like guilt on themselves for like their marriage not working out. I was like if Luca cannot remember this and have two lives that exist that he can be happy in and feel like secure in, I think we're winning. Yeah. What do you think overall? Because I know you're saying you're a positive person, which I think is like a great lesson for people. But for you, if someone is going through a divorce right now, like can you describe your lowest moment and then how you got out of it through that to anyone who's maybe at that low point right now?

One, you have to have a therapist. You have to be talking. You have to be processing the feelings. And you have to stand up for yourself. I think that was just the thing. I was like, I have to just stand up for myself. I have to. And the same thing could have been going on for him. You know what I mean? Like, so I'm not just like, oh, I up and left. Like, it was a collaborative thing that needed to happen. But you got to fight for yourself. And it doesn't matter that you have kids. Your kids are going to be okay. You know what I mean?

You just have to show them that, like, you also met. I think that that was a big thing for me is like when you have kids, you kind of become so all consumed by them and they get your everything. and it was important for me to not let that be a factor because a two-year-old can't decide that and know what's, you know what I mean? So it's really good advice. It's like you matter too and actually by showing. But once you become a mom, your guilt becomes so thick that like you don't actually,

there's like this part of your brain where you're like, yeah, I'm still in here and I'm still me. And then there's like this huge shadow over it was like, but everything for the family. and everything for your kid and, you know, and that's a good, it's, I think, again, it's by design. But it's a constant conversation to like choose yourself and choose something, you know, that you enjoy outside of family life and kids. Because eventually what you're also showing them is like you're leading by example because then they will choose themselves, hopefully, if they're ever in that situation because they're going to have watched you do it. I think that's absolutely right. Like I had to go drink a martini last night instead of stay home with my family.

It's just the little thing. And I've been working a lot and I try to still give them everything. But like I had to have that dirty martini last night. Mom needed it. They're not going to blame you, Hillary. I love it. Okay, so you eventually start dating. You get out of this marriage.

You start dating. And then you eventually meet your now husband. Should we call Matthew? Matt? What should we call him? Matthew. Matt. I call him Matthew when I'm like talking about him.

I don't know why it feels so sophisticated. Matthew. My husband's name is Matthew, too. Oh. Okay. How did you guys meet? We got set up from my A&R person. I was at RCA for a nanosecond and my RCA, my A&R person there set us up on like a work date. Okay. And was it an immediate connection or was it like a slow burn? It was pretty immediate, but like we kept it response. Like we weren't like outwardly flirting, but I was like, wait, this person's so. fun to talk to and our meeting was like two hours long. I know. And then I was like, oh my God, I've got a child. I don't have to go. But we were just talking like music and, you know, taste and like I was a quarter of the way through like making a record and it was just, he was definitely cute. I was he and then I found out like a month ago that he, that he, he, he, he, he sent an email that he found and sent it to me.

And he wrote his manager and was like two hours with Hillary. I think I'm in love. You're like laughing, but you're also like I literally felt the same way, but I didn't put that in writing. Wait, that's amazing. I know. So you both felt it immediately, kind of. Yeah.

And I think we were like flirty but not like, you know when there's just like a ping pong like vibe that's happening, but you're not like, is this person just like this person just like this fun to talk to or like are their feelings? Yeah. It was like that. And I was going to Sweden for like half a month or something to work on some music. And he, we were like chatting during that time. And then I came home and was like recording two songs that he had written.

And there was a lot of, he was very sweet. I was like sick for one of them. And he had brought me like all these like, honeies and teas and cough drops. I know. And then... And you guys hadn't hooked up at this point yet. No. Mm-mm. Nope. We hadn't hooked up yet. And then he asked me to be as Valentine. I know, but I already had plans with Luca. And I was like, sorry, I can't because I have a date already. And then I just took a picture of Luca and sent it to him. And he was like, okay, I accept. Fair. Fair. Great. So I think we had like a date maybe a few days after or a week after or something.

And it was great. But he was so nice to me. I remember being like after a few times we had hung out. I was like, he's just so nice. That's not really a thing. So you thought it was like almost a red flag that he was too nice? I think I was just like not ready to accept all of that yet. I was like coming out of that like a long relationship, a divorce. Like I was just like chaotic. I think I needed some chaos first. Yes. Meeting a nice guy that's actually going to treat me well. You're like, wait, can you pause for two seconds? Yeah, I'll be back together and I'll come back.

Yeah, totally. Okay, wait, so who made the first move, move? Him. Okay. Then I broke up with him. Okay, hold on. Okay. I feel like there's so much, you guys have said, like, very on and off again.

You broke up with him, then didn't he break up with you? Like, can you kind of just take me through what the hell happened? Yeah. So, um, okay, so I don't know how long we dated, maybe like three months or something. Okay. Really, honestly, we had a bunch of fun during that time. And then I was like, got to go. You need to go like handle.

He had some personal stuff he needed to work on. I was like, I have a child. Like, I don't know what excuse I use, some bullshit excuse. But I was like, sorry. Hi. You're literally perfect? I got to go. Yeah.

Hillary. Okay. So that was like maybe six months separation. And then what, how did we? Okay, he's also obsessed with, do you know the band Dawes? No. Okay, Dawes is this amazing band. They're like his heroes and now they're like his best friends because, and Taylor is married to Mandy Moore.

And I've known Mandy Moore my whole life, but like we were never running in the same, like, friend circles. but I would like see her at like TRL or like I know. So throwback. Know each other but like aren't really friends. And so we hadn't spoken in a long time. And he text me out of the blue and he's like Taylor and Mandy married. And I was, but we didn't know them yet. We weren't friends with them yet.

He's just like creepy updating me on their life because he's so obsessed with Dawes. And I like, I will never forget. I was pulling out of like a grocery store parking lot and I almost wrecked my car. I was like, wait, am I actually getting this? text right now? Text right now. And then it was like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. We're back.

We're back, baby. Oh. Yeah. And then we were together for like three months. Things were like very surface. And I didn't like that. I was like, I need, I think maybe because I broke up with him, he was like, is she stable enough?

Like, I don't know. And I think coming from like also. a broken household. I was like, let me push this guy and try to poke all the holes in it that I can to see if he's going to like stick around. Do you know what I mean? Relatable, yes. And so we go to New York and I'm like on a work trip and I, it was like a wine event

where I had to like basically drink wine all day and like host like a dinner party, like not a dinner party, but like a garden rooftop party. Oh my God. What a great job. So fun except for like. you know those press days where you're like basically don't eat? Yes. And then you're drinking.

And you're just talking to people and you're like working. Yes. You're like by the end I was like I am. You're seeing stars. Two sheets to the wind. Yes. Yes. And then we go to dinner and it was like an omicasse and I had like had more wine.

Whatever. I pick up some fight. We get into it. I don't even know exactly what I said. But he left the next morning. I know. Yes. She's up and laugh.

Uh-huh. Nope. I mean, we like had a discussion and he was like, bye. Mm-hmm. He kind of like hit me with his bag on the way out the door and left the door open. We were in the Greenwich. We were at the Greenwich Hotel.

And the doors don't like automatically close there. So it's like an awkward like. And I was like, did you just leave the door open? He's like at the elevator, literally, I know. The drama. I know. I'm leaving. You left me once I'm leaving you.

It's my turn. I think that it leveled the playing field in a really good way. But then he wouldn't speak to me because he's a crazy Gemini. And I was like, I just want a moment to like say, I'm a Libra. I need balance. That was like a crazy night when I really, that's not really like who I am. So I was just like, I want to genuinely like say sorry. You don't have to like, this is not me like pleading to get back with you.

I need to like just make it right and like genuinely like apologize, whatever. But it didn't speak to me. Then that made me mad. And I was like literally it's been a week, a week. And then I text him and I was like, you. Your guitars will be at the guard gate. Pick him up at this time. He must have gotten them.

We didn't really like talk, whatever. And then he words with friends me like a few months later. You're lying to me right now. And I was like, wait, again, almost wrecked my car. I was so excited. Wait, Words with Friends is also, why did I also have that with an X where we would like kind of communicate that way? And you're like, what are we doing?

Just pick up the fucking phone and call each other. I know, but it's kind of fun. It is. You got the notification. And he's so good with words. that I was like, I mean, obviously I always get beat. Right. But you're like, okay, here we go.

Yeah, and that was right before my 30th birthday. So he was like at my 30th birthday, which was so nice. And it was like this really lovely moment where I like looked around my party and I was like, everyone that is here like means so much to me and has been like such an important part of my story and my like growing, you know, and it's not like a 70th birthday, but 30's a big deal, you know? So it was nice. He was there for that. And then literally, we were going away, where's the place with all the red canyons, like in Utah or something? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Amman.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we were there. And I remember on the way back, we're on the airplane. I was like, when do you want to have kids? And he was like, probably like 35. And then I was pregnant like two months later. And I was like, gotcha. Oh, wow. Okay, wait. I feel like one of the. of the themes in your album is abandonment wounds. And to have this be on and off again and then to finally realize like this is your person and he realized you are my person. Like how did you work through those wounds? Because it's hard. And I feel like a lot of women listening will be like, wait. Honestly, I think what worked was me just trusting him. And that's just time. Really a lot of time. Obviously three pregnancies is a lot on a relationship. And especially,

one or like I feel like I come with a lot of like baggage and um I think just that he's willing to like really be there and shelter my emotions and my story and um he just kept showing up over and over and I was like cool that once I could get through that like now we get to really have like the fun. You know what I mean? Like because I just fully trust him and that was so hard to get to that place. And there was no secret recipe but just time and trusting my gut that like I made a good decision and that it's real and that like a person actually just cares about me. Like it's really hard to accept that for some reason. But how beautiful that you then he proved it. Yeah. Over and over again. Like he's so, he rides really hard. And it's really cute. You were pretty candid about

saying, like, you didn't know if you wanted to get married again after everything you had been through. Like, how did you change your mind? Well, I always knew I wanted more kids. And I knew he'd be an amazing dad. Once I finally introduced him to Luca, he, I think it was around Halloween. And he, like, showed up as like, head to toe Ninja Turtle. I know and I was like oh my god that's so cute he's leaning in he leaned in and he was just really really patient knowing that I was like not ready to introduce him for a long

time when we became parents to banks that was a big I was like oh we're good at this this feels right and then I always knew he wanted to get married and he's like kind of a traditional guy like that And I don't remember when the time was, but I always would be like, we can get married at 60. We can be like old and all of our kids can be there. And he would be like, okay, you know, he wasn't like ever asking me, but we would talk about it sometimes. And then randomly, we were in New York shooting younger and I sent him a picture of a ring that I really liked.

And I was like, maybe I could see this on like my young, cute hand. and not my like old 60 year old hand. And then he proposed like two months later. So sweet. Not only are you guys husband and wife, but you're also collaborators and business partners. I want to ask about your new song roommates, which, you know,

it talks about losing the spark and intimacy in a relationship. What was it like working on this together? One, he doesn't shy away from like heavy topics that are, uncomfortable when it comes to songwriting. Of course, we're like a normal couple. So like there's, I love that like opening line of the song is like, I can barely mention it without causing some ego trauma. And it's like he's a man. And they all are. And like even if the tables were turned, like, it's hard to be in a relationship with someone and like call out something that's not working if like for the most part it's good. But you're like, I feel really stuck right now. Like I'm not

feeling the way that I want this to feel or whatever. So it's like, it's hard because it feels like an attack. So like it's just hard to have communication that is healthy. It helps you get what you need or want without like bruising the other person, especially in a family where like you're working overtime to make everyone's needs met and just make the household float, you know. And I don't want to always like relate it to a family because everybody gets in that. You know what I mean? Like anybody in a long term relationship or even something that's like six months where it was like really sparky in the beginning starts to like life starts to feel normal. And you're like, wait, I miss that thing.

Right. It's like it almost has somehow become like people get like shy or embarrassed to admit like guys, everyone feels it. or in a long-term relationship, or again, like, the honeymoon stage is over. Every, I would say, long-term relationship goes through a moment where there's a shift in intimacy, right? And to actually maintain a healthy long-term relationship, you have to first acknowledge that's going to happen and not just, like, leave when it's not working. But then you also have to talk about it, which is the awkward part you're kind of saying,

because it is so uncomfortable to be like, can we talk about our sex life? And like one person is wanting it more, one person's wanting it less, or one person's initiating more. And like, that's the most vulnerable, I think one of the most vulnerable things that you can talk about with the partner. I know. But once you open the door to that conversation, it is life changing. And it does. I don't mean it's like easy every time. But like, do you have advice going through this writing process, going through it together and talking this through for anyone who is like, how do you navigate those conversations and not have it lead to.

a fight or someone's feelings getting hurt. It's just like being a healthy communicator and being able to like, I think one of the things I struggled with and where like roommates kind of came from was like it wasn't even necessarily like his problem. I was having a hard time asking for what I needed or being like being in a place where I was like felt like I couldn't like share or like. like was ashamed of the like needs that I had, you know? I think it's just being able to like be open and not and not like blame someone. Like communicating without blame is like a really, it's like an art form. Quite literally. Yeah. That's a great point. Yeah. It's almost like sometimes

it has nothing to do with your partner. It's actually like all on you of like this is something I've been thinking about. And now I need to make sure that when I'm saying this, it's coming out in a way that's not, I wish you would. It's actually like I need and I want. And that starting from that place is such a healthier place to communicate it. So they're not immediately shut down and feeling backed into a quarter and like they're doing something wrong, which is beautiful. Also, I think that women have like such intuition and such a, oh, what's the word I'm looking for? for like you're just in tune. You just know. And I remember calling his mom and being like, why doesn't he know? I know. Every woman in the world, like, why don't you know? They're like,

I don't know. But if you tell me, I'll fix it. Right. And it's so simple, but you're like, I don't want to have to tell you. How don't you just know exactly what I'm feeling? Making more work for me to have to tell you. They're like, she literally like, I forget what some of the post-its would say, but she'd be like, babe, put a post-it up and just remember you got a You got to tell him. You got to ask for what you need. You have to, whatever, I know. And then it made things so much better when I was like stop, when I didn't expect him to just

know. Yeah. It's like we want them to be able to read our minds, but like they can't. And so once you just start communicating, it's so much easier. But then you're already coming from a place of being annoyed that you're like, I've been suffering. It's like, I didn't even know that. And you didn't notice?

They're like, no. No. Yeah. Talk. Say something. Yeah. The lyrics also in the song reference, porn and masturbating. And it was pretty crazy to see the way some of the internet responded. I know.

People were like, some people were absolutely shocked and outrage that you were speaking about these things. How did it make you feel to see that some people really were still expecting you to present in this squeaky, clean, child star image that they watched you as a young girl have? Well, I think that probably my initial reaction was like, oh, they just haven't like evolved yet, you know? And I don't care at all. One of the craziest comments that I saw was like, and do you do that in front of your children? And I was like, no. What? Are you okay?

No, but guess what? Like the song is meant to be polarizing. It's not meant to like be raunchy or like get attention because of what I'm saying. Like it's it's a plea. And like I think that's relatable to women. And so, you know, I have never given head in the back of a dive bar. Sadly, there's always time. But it's going to happen.

But you get to take like, like, lyrical like liberties when you're writing a song and you're creating art. And it was it was important for me that the song felt like very polo. because that's how it feels in a moment of a of a lull in a relationship where you're just like I need I need to sort this out. I need to get through this. I can't keep feeling this way. And yeah, so yeah, it was really wild to see some of the, I think for the most part it was good. But then of course, like all the comments that stand out to you are the negative ones. It also funny because I feel like from the internet what I saw was at first it was all positive. And then as people like really started to dissect the lyrics and had like more time to sit on it, they're like, did she say masturbate? Did she say porn? And everyone's like, Hillary Duff said the word porn and everyone's like, it's like, it's almost like just like the bandwagon. It's like so fun for them and easy to just like get on it. And you'd be like, yeah, that's kind of crazy. What I also took from it. Or like, do your kids sing that? And I'm like, I'm not making music for my kids. I'm not making music for seven year olds. I'm making music for myself. I'm making music for people.

like myself. So, you know, I was singing crazy lyrics when I was young too that I had no idea what they meant. And if I was like, I'm not making a children's record. Again, I think there's an image people have of you being a child star that they, that's like on them. It's not on you. I also thought it was ironic that, you know, they're so shocked that you're singing about sex as an adult. But then when you rewind as a teenager, you had reporters asking you, have you lost your virginity and are you sleeping around? So it's like, it's never, women can never win. It wasn't appropriate when you were underage that people were asking you these things. And now that you have autonomy and you're an adult, people are now so fixated

on like, how dare you talk about sex? And it's like, wait. What do you want from me? She's four kids. Do you guys think that she doesn't have sex? It was immaculate conception. Yes. Every time. How though do, I'm curious, people having always something to say about you and your sexuality and whether it was your virginity or you're hooking up and then now, like, how has that impacted your sexuality? I don't think it, like, impacted my relationship with sex, but I think it's just been another one of those things that comes along with my career that I didn't really ask for, and I've had to learn how to just accept. But it was really hard as a young girl because I was, like, coined the good girl. And everybody was like, she was like, she was.

She's the good girl. She's the good girl. And like just having to label someone and then do everything they could to try to poke holes in that label or try to figure out any thing they could that was like somewhat negative or bad. You know, it was like they were just trying to create stories. And it was hard to be like one, okay, I've been labeled the good girl like, but I'm also. so just normal, doing all the normal things that teenagers are doing. And trying to just kind of exist without accepting those things to be true about myself, maybe.

Or having any sort of, like, privacy, I think, was just, like, really hard. And, yeah, I remember at that time that person, like, asked me if I was a virgin. And I was, like, I think also as a child after your condition to, like want to give people what they want, you know? So like answering something like that felt like really wild. Wait, did you answer? I don't remember. I don't remember. I just remember it being said and it was like a stir of like publicists and like a crazy, you know, it's like so inappropriate. Beyond. Yeah. Yeah. That stuff I don't think flies anymore. No. But yeah, it was definitely in in the middle of that like crazy press time where people would ask you whatever.

And that's why I'm so happy that you're taking your own liberty of like, I am going to talk about things in my life. And it's okay if everyone doesn't want to accept it. But don't just not accept it because of an image you have of me as a young girl because that's actually just weird. Yeah. You have a song also called We Don't Talk. And you kind of basically say, don't know when it happened, not even sure what it was about, which is weirdly, really relatable. I think it kind of seems like you're talking about and correct me if I'm wrong. Like, when a relationship falls apart and when you have time away from it, you look back, you're like, wait, why did we lose touch or how did that exactly go down? How do you approach those type of dynamics in your own life? Like, are you the person that will reach out or do you kind of retreat and not try to mend something if it's broken? I will reach out. You do. Have you had to do that a lot in your life?

Yes. Has it always felt like, oh, you made the right decision or have you been kind of? a bitten in the ass ever. I think I get bitten in the ass sometimes when it doesn't unfold the way that I would like I was hoping. But I think that um I think one thing that I appreciate about myself is that I will always try to keep a heart open and like a heart forward and try. And that like as a 38 year old who's like navigated the industry since I was nine years old makes me feel like healthy, you know, like it's easy to get jaded and really rough around the edges. And I don't feel like I am. Yeah. Obviously, you are a very public person. So people are constantly trying to dissect your lyrics.

But a lot of people have been thinking that this could be about a family member of yours. how do you feel when you see those things online? I think there was no way for me to make a record after 10 years and not dig into what those 10 years have looked like. You know, and like the big things that have happened and that affect me and that make me who I am. And unfortunately, a lot of that has been like not great stuff. and that's life.

It sucks that I'm not an adult coming out with an album that people don't know my story and all the players in it. You know, people have known everybody in my life since I was on Lizzie McGuire. You know, they know my mom, my sister, my dad, like we have a small family. People are interested in that for some reason. And it's really sad, you know, the kind of like where we are right now.

And scary to share it because of like the internet. But important for me, like I'm just saying how it feels for me. And that was something on the record I really tried to accomplish is like not placing blame anywhere. It takes a lot of people for, it takes everybody involved, you know, for things to kind of be where they are. But I was just trying to talk about how it feels like for me and reach people because it's real. And a lot of people share a similar story. And yeah, no, it's never easy to see people speculating on your life for clicks. But it's easier to tune the noise out with

like having the household that I have and the that like soft landing and that all the love and you know I've created that family I'm so proud of like that makes all of the things that I've been through like okay yeah when you put out songs like that like were you do has it felt cathartic and kind of like chapter close or are you hoping it could maybe like spark some type of like reconciliation or conversation? My purpose was for making my record was for myself. And I think that like you always hope for something to be healthy again, you know, and something to be good again.

But I don't know if like, I don't know if my, me being honest and vulnerable will, you know, be met with openness or anger or what it could, you know, there's many different options there. And I think I had to just let go of an expectation and do what I wanted for me. And, um, and that's that, you know, it's a, it's a painful thing to talk about. Yeah. It kind of reminds me almost of like you earlier in the interview said, God, I, I do love doing this. so much. But I do love my life and the privacy and it's almost like... Well, I don't know if you've noticed, but like even since I started like being more like forward facing with my music, like the internet is like a buzz with like everything they can possibly dig up. So it's...

It's a lot. Very strange. I have a list of things and I'm like, shit, like you've been a hot topic of conversation missed off. Like you have been... I'm like, okay, so we go through the family, now one of literally the noisiest things on the internet. That's why I have to ask just because it's been so freaking noisy. It's been everywhere is an article was written about a toxic mom group and it literally took the internet by storm and every single person was talking about it. And then through speculation and then people connecting the dots, like it kind of was in. I don't really think people had to connect very many dots. It took like a day, not even. Right. How did you feel when it came out and when you read it? Um, I felt really sad. I honestly felt really sad. I was like pretty, pretty taken aback

and felt just like sad. Like I love, I have, I have so many groups of friends. I'm so lucky. Motherhood has brought on like, I have my like core group of friends who have been my writer dies for 20 years, 10 to 20 years. And I, I have. I have like tons of different groups of mom friends because I have four kids. You know, so I think I just was like, whoa, it sucks to read something that's like not true. And it sucks on behalf of like six women in all of their lives. Then the pot got started a little bit more. Our boy Matthew posted an Instagram story kind of then addressing back to it.

Did you know he was going to post this? No. How did you feel when you. opened your phone and hubby had chimed in honestly everything he does makes me laugh so i was like oh my god oh my god but i also don't censor him and i don't tell him what he can and can't post um he is so like fierce for me and like i like i love him for that. Is there anything on that that you want to clarify? Because obviously all the rumors and everything and like you have been in the center of it. Like is there anything else you want to

just like clarify on that topic? No. Okay. I think it came at like the craziest time where I was like my like the timing felt not great and I felt used. Like would this have happened had you not had your big resurgence and everything going on with you? Okay. Moving on. Okay, like we've talked about, 10 years since you released an album. So I'm curious, if you were to picture your dream life 10 years from now, what would it look like? Whoa. Cool. Okay.

Anytime I look into the future, I like to think about Thanksgiving and like what the table looks like. Are you hosting? Always. Okay. 10 years, it's November. You're hosting. Yeah. What does it look like?

Like, like, my kids have their, like, boyfriend or girlfriend there or, like, bestie or what, like, it's just full. The table's full. The, like, the seats are full. We're going to play, like, some dumb game later. We're drinking wine. Like, it's just, you know, everyone's there. And so I would like to have toured the world maybe twice. probably made another record and like figured out a way to juggle like having this and also

having home life still be like I can't it's so fun to watch my kids grow up like it's just the best thing ever I love having babies and it's really hard to think about not having a baby in the house anymore. But like as they grow, they just get so cool. So I think I just hope to continue having the relationship that I have with my kids and the home life that I have. But like, I think I'll work forever. Everyone's always like, what about the Lizzie McGuire reboot? And I'm like, it's not interesting to me at like 40. It was interesting to me at like 30. But like, like, Maybe it's interesting at like 55 or 60. You know, like, I don't know.

Maybe I'm doing that. Listen, none of us are going to be mad at you. We're like, we're ready whenever you're ready. We're like, we'll be seated. Also, I would love to have more time to just like do the things I want with Matt. Like, we get very little time. Prioritized your relationship. Yeah.

Can you talk about that a lot. Well, if I see you in 10 years, I'm going to be like, did you do these things? What are you guys doing? I interview like the day after Thanksgiving 10 years from now. We'll put on the books. How, if you have any, could you share some advice on, I know you can't do it all, but we are sitting here and like you've had such a successful career. You are continuing to have such a successful career and you have four kids. And I think there's probably a lot of women that are looking at you being like it does kind of seem like you have it all and you're doing it all. And like do you have any advice to women who maybe want to get back into work but are afraid? how you manage that with the kids and all of it. One, I think that was a huge why for making this record, was to inspire, I know people aren't pop stars. Not everybody gets to be a pop star and I'm like eternally grateful that for some reason

this was my position in life. But I do hope that it inspires moms to get outside of their household a little bit and like find the thing that they love if they've lost it. I think it's so important to not be there for your kids every waking moment. I think it's so important for them to have like wins and losses out in the world alone that you're not like privy for everything. And that like breaks my heart to say because I like love to be there for all of their things. But like I think it's healthy.

And I've learned that with having four kids because you obviously can't be everywhere all at once. And you just have to be like, okay, I was there for that thing that day. I'm choosing this thing this day. And it's like you've got to make those choices. But I feel like my kids are stronger because of it. And I never want them to feel guilty for growing up and like leaving me behind. I don't. I want to be okay with like.

That is like made me like sad and happy at the same time. That almost made me cry. That's really. Yeah. Wow. And I think that if you like don't find yourself. and stay true to like your some of your needs you know then like they eventually leave and you want them to leave and be okay you know like I don't have kids yet but that's like a big fear of mine right

I think so many women are probably watching right now because it's like you don't want to lose yourself yeah but then the guilt of like leaving them and it's like yeah it's so ever present for women whether they're in the middle of it or they're expecting to go through it so to hear you be like guys I'm actually living it and like you got to let them go Yeah, you do. And then the other thing that I, like, want to set straight a little bit is like, I, you can't have it all. You just can't.

You can try and you can have a lot of the things that you want, but you're going to miss stuff, you know, and you're going to have to make choices. And I feel so incredibly grateful for everybody behind the scenes of my life right now. helping me achieve this. It is like I have nannies and an assistant and like hair and makeup people keeping me looking, you know, not like how I look when I wake up in the morning. And my husband and a label and a huge machine behind me that's like making this, Megan Traynor texted me the other day.

And she's like, babe, you, this rollout has been flawless. Are you okay? And I'm like, and I have so much help, but it's like still so much, you know, it's just like a crazy, you don't see what goes on behind the scenes because it all looks so shiny and it's like, has to, I guess. But like, it's really hard and everyone's taken sacrifices for it, you know, including my kids. No, I appreciate you saying that because I think you're right. It's like your life does look like a dream right now.

And it's like you're shiny and sparkly and gorgeous and, like, you're shiny and sparkly and gorgeous. and all of it. And it's like no to the women out there like, yes, I'm living my dream. But it comes at a cost and it's hard. Comes at a huge cost. Being in the industry comes with a huge cost. And it's so hard to complain when your life looks shiny and you have money, you know? Completely.

But I also appreciate you just letting us into because it's like, again, I think we compare ourselves to women we see online because I'm like, okay, so she's got four kids and she's able to do this. And then you're like, guys, no, no, no, no, like only because I have a crew and a team and assistance and this. And it's like breaking that barrier and that wall, I think also helps women who maybe are doing it as a single mom alone. You can't afford the assistant. It's like, you've got the hardest job and we bow down to you. Seriously. I bow down to them. Okay, last question. Your fans have stuck by your side for decades. What do you hope you're able to connect with them over in this new era that you're presenting to

the world. One, I just want to say I'm eternally grateful for them. I would not have a music career without them. I was not like accepted by the music industry by any stretch of the imagination. They were rabid for me and my music. And like I was, of course, Lizzie McGuire being that launching pad and them like loving me from that. I'm so grateful. Of course I had my feelings of having to like accept that part of my life but I'm so like I love her now too and I connect and I get it you know but like when I got into music the fans like I was you know doing her like arenas and stuff like that was and I didn't really have a ton of radio play and I didn't have like it just wasn't a thing yet that like actors could just become musicians like I'm just so appreciative that like my

music connected with people and like had legs for 20 years and then I get to be at a point now in my life where I'm I can like see what it meant to them and to me and and then just getting to like not be shy about like not I'm not reintroducing myself at all I think I just needed like a second to like live some life and like they lived a whole bunch of life and now we get to like connect as adults and talk about what the hell that's like. Thank you so much for opening up today. I know we went on like a winding journey. Oh really? We were in the canyon, babe. We were we went everywhere and more. And I think, um, again, like having had you take a break for a while coming back, like it's so fun to hear about

your adult life. I know we did nostalgia, but like I really appreciate you sharing more about what's been going on recently because it is. is so informative to this album and I'm so excited for everyone to hear it and to embrace it with open arms and not look at you as this child star, but this woman who has this beautiful family and a career. And that is beyond relatable to my audience for sure. So thank you for opening up and letting us have a little glimpse into your life and everything that's inspired this amazing album. Thank you. Hillary done. Thank you for coming Uncle or Daddy.