Call Her Daddy - Holly & Bridget: Controlling Men 101

Episode Date: November 8, 2023

Join Alex in the studio for a sit-down interview with former Girls Next Door stars, Holly Madison and Bridget Marquardt. Holly and Bridget shine a light on the darker side of Playboy and detail some of the most shocking experiences they had during their time in the Mansion. They talk about reclaiming their voices and autonomy after years of being controlled by Hugh Hefner. Holly and Bridget get real and tell the Daddy Gang what signs to look out for and how to know when a relationship has turned toxic and controlling. This episode has so many inspiring and empowering conversations about body image, reclaiming and owning your sexuality, and finding the courage to walk away and start over when a situation no longer serves you.

what is up daddy gang it is your founding father alex cooper with call her daddy bridget and holly welcome to call her daddy thanks for having us yeah thanks so much you guys i was sitting i think it was like the other week and i was like i need a girls girl episode i just need to like talk to girls that get it and I immediately thought of the two of you and I'm like you guys have to come on so thank you for being here oh I love that yeah so first of all it's crazy Holly because I have a lot of new listeners and I'm thinking back to when we recorded our first episode together there may be some people that like haven't heard it so guys if you haven't listened go listen because it was amazing but how long ago was that it was like two years ago and it was the first interview I'd done in like five years because I

was totally anti doing PR but I was a fan of your show and I thought well this will be fun and then you inspired me to start my own podcast you're totally my inspo because I had so much fun on that one ah it was such a good experience and like I agree I think we were like oh my god let's have a convo we were like getting so deep we were both like emotional we're like fuck that was amazing so thank you for getting so deep with me on that and anyone again go watch it because it's incredible but now I have you two lovely ladies here and I want to kind of like maybe people that are new can you explain Holly like how do you guys know each other how are you guys friends how did you guys meet well we were living together at the playboy mansion for like seven years and we were on a show a reality show

called the girls next door that was on from like 2005 to 2009 and that's how we know each other so it was complicated yes people that maybe are listening that are like i don't even know what the playboy mansion is i don't understand any of this. Please can you kind of explain what the Playboy Mansion was like during that time? The Playboy Mansion was the place to be at that time. In the early 2000s, everybody wanted to be there. Every celebrity, every girl that I knew of wanted to be a part of it, wanted to be a playmate, wanted to go to the parties. They had the best parties in the world there. It was just the place that you wanted to be a playmate wanted to go to the parties that the best parties in the world there um it was just the place that you wanted to go you wanted to be seen and you wanted to be a part of that whole lifestyle yeah it's like a fairy tale it looks like from the outside with all

these beautiful women so it's like what girl wouldn't want to just like pop in and get like a living space to be around all these people when you talk about these parties like can you like who was the most famous person you ever saw at a party like give some context like the caliber of people were that were at these places well at the time it was like the biggest movie stars like Leonardo DiCaprio and Jim Carrey and Cameron Diaz and people like that yeah and the crazy thing is like nobody had like smartphones back then and you were not allowed to bring cameras in. If you got caught with a camera, you'd be immediately kicked out. So people felt comfortable going there and partying and like Hef had his personal cameras there and personal videographers, but people felt comfortable that they weren't going to be exposed. So big celebrities felt comfortable going and you would just see all kinds of people there. I don't think anyone ever in generations moving forward will ever experience that type of like anonymity when they walk into a room at a party. No. Like the concept and I can imagine like it maybe was more freeing for a lot of people to know like you're not going to I literally wake up the next day

sometimes after parties and I see like I'm tagged in a video and I'm like oh my god like I smile like that like or I'm like breathing that way like what you can wake up and in that kind of world it's just so different to think back like not having cameras like were you guys at parties did you feel that same way like very free or were you still stressed because you were kind of working in a way well when I was just a guest there it felt very free and like you were kind of a fly on the wall and just watching everybody but once we moved in and were Hef's girlfriends you were kind of required to sit at the table the whole time unless you had to like run to go to the bathroom and you could get up and dance a little bit but you were kind of like greeting everybody that came to say hi to him so it wasn't like we definitely didn't feel free. I don't think we had to get trashed.

But we had to stay with an eye shot of half and the area. Like we couldn't just go walking around and be like, let's go check this out. Let's go enjoy this party. Also, like I wonder, like, did you guys ever want to not get too drunk? Because like then would you like do something that you would be like in the morning? Like, oh, are you going to get in trouble? Like, did you guys ever have to watch yourselves because I'm sure people are doing drugs and drinking and all the things like what was that dynamic I wasted I did too but I feel like for

me too it was part of like a way to disassociate a little bit just because a lot of the things that were going on at the house I wasn't really comfortable with and that was just kind of like my escape but I was trashed all the time you're like I was hammered actually Alex so thank you absolutely not was I ever sober obviously back then like there was such a beauty standard I think that was like very specific to the mansion and the playboy world can you guys talk about that and like what were you expected to look like there was such a beauty standard I think that was like very specific to the mansion in the playboy world can you guys talk about that and like what were you expected to look like well I think the most harmful thing was just the thinness because like eating disorders were really rampant like there was a lot of bulimia at the

mansion to the point where people would end up in the hospital sometimes to the point where like bathroom pipes had to be replaced which I didn't believe that rumor for a while because I was like no that's too over the top you don't have to replace a bathroom pipe because of somebody's stomach acid but then somebody confirmed that that was true did you guys both experience problems with like and struggles with eating I've never had like really an eating disorder per se but I used to count every single calorie and I was really obsessed with being very very thin and I definitely experienced body dysmorphia where I would see footage of myself and think, oh my God, I let myself really get out of control.

This is so embarrassing. And I look back on that footage now and I'm like, wait, what was I thinking? Tiny. Yeah, because back then the beauty standard was just like you had to be so thin. What about you, Bridget? I did not have an eating disorder, but I look back at all of the footage from Girls Next Door, and I was really, they tried to fat shame me, basically. And they tried to make me, I'm the big girl, the heavy girl of the group,

and they tried to shame me for eating in every way they could. And I remember noticing it at the time and talking to the producer about it and telling him it really upset me that he did that because I felt like I had a really healthy relationship with food and exercise and um and was not heavier than the other girls but still to this day people think that I am the fat one from the show it's so interesting you say that because I remember watching the show and I didn't remember that until you're saying and I'm like oh yeah I do remember watching the show and I didn't remember that until you're saying it. I'm like, oh yeah, I do remember like the concept of like, if you weren't actually to the point where you looked sickly, then you were like fat, considered fat.

So producers said that to you, to your face? Well, I told him that I didn't appreciate it and he just said it's funny. And he thinks it's funny. He thinks it's a funny gag that he keeps doing to me but you never ended up like succumbing to that pressure and you like never had then issues with eating never had issues with eating but I'm always worried about it and especially after that now now I'm always and people will come up to me and still be like oh you've lost a lot of weight and I'm just like what are you talking about right like first of all shut the fuck up don't

comment on people's bodies how about that and second of all shut the fuck up it's so sad because I think a lot of what I wanted to talk about today is like how maybe we have progressed a little bit in society with like but then I'm sitting here and I'm like not really like I feel like even especially with like the thinness and the body dysmorphia for women it's just social media has made it worse like sure back then playboy it was like if you see this magazine this is what you should look like and all the women have like dye your hair bleach blonde and have thick boobs and blah blah blah and it was all just to look a certain way but now I'm like I feel like it's the same thing with like whether it's like look like the Kardashians or look like now like the models it's like as women we can never just be like

happy with the way that we look and it's really sad and it's unfortunate I guess I'm curious since you guys had such a fixation on the way that you looked for so long like is it still lingering that when you guys look in the mirror you still have those like twitches of like making sure you look perfect a hundred percent yeah to the point where on the way over here I was talking about how cool it was that Pamela Anderson went to fashion week in no makeup and I'm like I will never be brave enough to do that but I'm glad somebody is like thank god right no you're so right yeah what about you Bridget like when you're just like alone with yourself looking in the mirror like are you still finding yourself being like

almost like regressing to those days of like look this way feel this way absolutely yeah dude oh it's something I think about every day yeah multiple times a day I mean multiple times on the way over here yeah I feel like it's so hard to deprogram from like I would love to say I've evolved past that but it would take a lot longer but I don't even think like I agree with you guys but I also don't even think like of course you guys were in a situation where it was so over the top and like to the absolute extreme but I feel like so many women that are going to listen to this are going to be like me too like I don't know one woman that doesn't have some type of insecurity because of the way they look not because they actually felt about themselves but because either society or someone said something to their face and was like

you should look this way or I don't like that about you like oh you're fat or oh you're this and then it stays with you it's like fucking exhausting it really is exhausting that's the perfect word for it and if it's not weight it's age too like talk about that like you shouldn't be dressing like that or you should you know look your age or whatever and I feel like I am looking my age I'm looking how I want to look like this is how I want to look I did something recently where people were like you're getting too old to party like this is not cute and I'm like I want to be fucking 80 in the nursing home like ripping shots like going out on a bang and you should like who cares if that's what you want to do that's what you should do as we get older and it's something that I've thought about a lot of is like I started the

show when I was pretty young and like it's sad to say this but I'm realizing like it is such a privilege to get older like we're all so fortunate if we make it to 35 make it to 40 make it to 50 like that's a fucking privilege and to even see like signs of life on your body of like wrinkles like oh my god you've lived you've gone through shit but for women specifically that's just like once it's almost like when you hit 30 35 it's like well you're you're you're out of your prime it's over like can you talk to me about how you guys handle that yeah I mean that was definitely a thing at Playboy I feel like the unspoken cutoff age for like a playmate was 28 like there would be a few outliers here and there but usually like 28 was kind of like she's 28

you know and it's just like I never I never want to put a limit on myself like that for anything and I just feel like even being a mom too like I have to be really careful about what I put out there because there's always going to be somebody who's going to say like I don't want to do anything to embarrass my kids but I could just put out like a bikini picture that I think is cute and isn't even really sexy and there's going to be people I know weighing in like you need to take that down like that's inappropriate and it's also like why are really young women the only ones who are allowed to be sexy like that's kind of like so true a big eye roll no it's actually when you say that it's so interesting to me like if anything the young women should like refrain a little bit because you're getting to know yourself like

you want to like understand yourself before you're actually just like putting it out there to the world once we hit a certain age i'm like i know how to handle the criticism i know that like men aren't shit that are objectifying me it's like we should continue to celebrate at every age it's not just like our worth stops at a certain age but it's i could sit here forever and talk about it it's so frustrating because you guys and talk about it it's so frustrating because you guys I'm sure it's hard for you too and I don't know if you can talk about this like obviously we're sitting here talking about these like prime years that people talk to you guys about but I'm sure you guys probably would beg to differ of like that those weren't your prime

years in terms of how you felt about yourself not at all I feel like life just keeps getting better and that I want it to keep getting better and I think that's the way it should be for everybody yeah wasn't there something about like people would take polaroids of you and then they would grade your polaroid and that would like determine what parties you were allowed to get invited to yes can you explain that well when you would arrive to a party if you were a female they would take a polaroid of you and then hef would go through all of them after the party and grade them like a b c or d d you're not invited back c you're maybe on the big party list b you're like on all the party lists like

big or small and then a you'd get invited to like the pool parties and stuff like that dude was there anyone at the time between the women that was like guys this is like kind of fucked up or no I don't think so because I feel like we were so ingrained in it that that seemed like like it sounds crazy talking about it now but I feel like the graded Polaroids seemed like the least of the issues to me at the time well I remember I knew about the Polaroids because obviously I've had them taken of me before but I didn't realize the grading on them until later. And I remember being kind of shocked by that and be like, oh, they're great. Oh, that's how these work.

Bridget's like taking the photo, like, how do I look? And then later you're like, oh, fuck, that was for a grading system. Yeah, totally. When you just said that, Holly, it made me think me think like okay if that was like the least of your worries can you guys talk to me about as a woman looking back now with like hindsight like what was the hardest moments that you're like damn like that was so fucked up of how objectified we were being as women for our bodies and our looks and no one gave a fuck about like what we had in the inside I mean I think I mean there's so many layers to that.

I think for me personally, when I think about the worst thing, I just think about like anything in the bedroom and just the fact that like anybody would be invited in there. And like we didn't get to agree on who got to come in and who got to watch and who got to do whatever. And it was just traumatizing. Yeah. Oh, I didn't realize. So he could invite people in to watch you guys

well I mean I think he wanted everybody to participate but sometimes people wouldn't and you would get the feeling with some people they were just looky loose yeah totally and then some people would go like blog about it and I'm like okay that's kind of like revenge porn a little bit you know what I mean not even a little bit like full fucking blown totally what about you Bridget like what comes to mind I mean it definitely has to be the bedroom it can't get any worse than that but it also was like this the mean girls era that we like to refer to because I just feel like we had no voice during that whole time it was really hard how did you find your voice when you left the mansion I felt like I went through a

couple years of like deprogramming kind of because when I left there like obviously I knew it was fucked up enough that I didn't want to stay but after being there for seven years and being in like the kind of this cult-like environment where everybody worships this one person for the longest time if anybody like press or otherwise would ask me about it I'd be like oh everything's great he's great everybody's great because I mean a I just didn't want to like get into it publicly I just wasn't ready for that yet and I thought that was the nice thing to do but looking back I'm like it really took me a couple years to like deprogram and realize that a lot of shit that happened was like fucked up like obviously I knew I didn't like it at the time and I knew I had to leave after a certain point but also even you just

saying that like it makes me think about how there's so many people online that and not even about you just like anyone that does something that they regret even like women that did porn that they're like I look back now and I wish I didn't do that people are like but you did it yeah like you benefited from it you're there like you're famous because of that like and mostly it's men saying this of being like oh well you did it like why are you so upset like it made you who you are today can you talk about how you also deal with like that juxtaposition of like of course how you felt in that moment how were you going to speak up about a man that was one of the most like highest men in power at the time in the world everyone knew this man everyone loved this man everyone wanted to be this man and like who were you like little holly madison to be like actually

this is abuse like it just wasn't you couldn't have done that at the time um so can you talk to me a little bit about that of like seeing those comments about that situation? Yeah when people say that I mean I just don't really know what their point is like am I because I have two choices at this point. I can either lie and say everything was great. I got to be on a TV show because of it. So cool. But I'm really if I were to do that it'd be perpetuating a lifestyle that didn't make me happy and a relationship that didn't make me happy and something I would never recommend for anybody else like who cares if I was on a reality show because of it like anything I've got to do since then it's because I know how to fucking make lemonade out of lemons and everybody just wants

to act like he handed me every little thing I've done since and that's just not the case true Bridget what about you when you left like what was that like repairing your self image and and who you were independent of the mansion? I think I'm still working on that. I don't think I've done that yet. I did. I kind of left and still did beaches, my beaches show for the Travel Channel and still kind of hosted and I just sort of put it all behind me. I didn't really like look back into it much at all or anything like that. I felt like I didn't for a second either because when you leave the mansion you realize fuck okay I haven't had a platform from being on a reality show so I need to hit the ground running now if I'm gonna like survive. So you're in survival mode. You're not thinking about going back. Like it wasn't until a good couple years after I left I was looking through that Girls next door coffee table book we did that had all these candid shots of us because I was trying to find a certain picture and I looked at myself and

I'm like holy shit I'm fake smiling in all these pictures like maybe not everybody else could recognize that right but I did and I was like wow I noticed Bridget like you got a little emotional when you just said, well, I think doing this pod, not this podcast, but our Holly and I's podcast, um, is helping me like look back on some of the things and some of the things that I'd forgotten about. And, um, and then I also started writing a book too, and that's kind of opened some things up. And I'm, so I'm, I feel like I'm just now in that area, but I don't think I did it before. Yeah. Can you talk to me a little about that? Like, how does it make you feel?

It's it's a it's a roller coaster ride because like there's when we first started, it was it was emotional and it was bad. And I told Holly when she first asked me if I wanted to do this podcast of recapping the show, I was like, oh, yeah, I like I have great memories. Like everything's good. I have nothing bad to say. Like're gonna be like the the you're gonna be like oh yeah that was an awful time and I'll be like it was great it was amazing and it that is sort of how it is still my my recollection of everything is um or my experience that I had with things was a little bit more positive than what Holly had not that there wasn't negative things but like generally more positive um but we started watching the episodes and I told her I can't do this yeah we were ready to quit after like episode two I was like oh my god I totally put this completely out of my head that they they did this to us to me in a particular episode and I

don't even know how I can address this like I have there's nothing I can even say to try and redeem myself out of this what was the situation it was episode two so season one episode two it was supposedly our um our episodes Holly was supposedly episode one. I was episode two and Kendra's episode three. And episode two, and it has me trying to get the playmates drunk and talking about how jealous I am that they get to get it and I don't. I'm sabotaging them and stuff, which was not. Never happened.

True. But they show it. They cut it like I'm ordering them shots and making all these girls that are just there testing do all these shots to ruin their their test the next day and I'm just like how am I even supposed to like defend myself on this when it looks like that's what I'm doing and that's how I feel I'm so sorry and I that's something that's so weird about podcasting, which I'm like happy, sad for you guys. Because like you said, you're doing a rewatch podcast. And it almost makes you have therapy sessions every week, right?

Oh, it does. I think so, yeah. Like, fuck, Holly. Like, we went through that. We did that. And again, you guys knowing, which must be kind of cathartic, but also kind of fucked up to be like, wait, pause. That's not how it went down. That's not not what happened let's talk about sexuality a little bit when did you guys ever

first start masturbating or even if you do or don't I don't know oh like when I was yet like I always functioned I feel in a healthy way sexually like from high school onward yeah but I just I don't know if it was like I wasn't emotionally ready to deal with a relationship or the possibility of getting feeling attached to somebody through sex it's such a weird time when you're younger because you're like that didn't feel good when I had sex with him and then you're like if you start masturbating you're like oh I think this is nice but also like oh my god don't let anyone know or else I'm going to fucking hell and then it's like when you start having sex at that age like it's really not about finding pleasure for yourself like it is still about the man it's like did he get off and

there's like just so many weird things that come with that that it's just like it fucks with your head can I say one more thing about the masturbation before you please come back I will say that that is one positive thing for me that came out of the mansion and the upstairs bedroom thing is that um that became very normalized oh with the mr hitachi yeah just like people would just like usually like roll over with their vibrator we stop yes there was a bunch of vibrators who were like, obviously I didn't have an orgasm. Let me explain the scene really quick. I'm like, wait, Bridget, what's the Mr. Hitachi? What the fuck?

There's a vibrator called Mr. Hitachi. Okay. Is it called Mr. Hitachi? I thought it was. Hitachi one. Oh, maybe I call him Mr. Hitachi. He has a persona. This was the man in my life for seven years

while I was at the mansion, okay? Totally. This is what got me off. But I'm just like, so we have the, is at the mansion okay this is what got me off but I'm just like um so we have those at the mansion and um I'm just gonna say that was like amazing and that opened my eyes to what could happen and um I still have Mr. Hitachi today I think we like asked for them for stocking stuffers we did. We did, because they're incredible. If you don't have one, get on Amazon right now. Wait, what kind of, what does it look like?

But you have to order it from the Hitachi site, because Amazon sells knockoffs that break. Oh, no. What does it look like? Buyer beware. It's a giant thing. It's like a jackhammer. And it's white.

Oh, that big. With the brown thing on the end. Yeah, it almost looks like a microphone. Yeah. Yes. And it's for backs and stuff, too allegedly they say but everybody knows what that's for i actually was gifted one and i remember trying to use it it's like that is like an arm workout it's like kind of really heavy you'll get used to it okay do you see these guns bitch okay um okay so you're saying oh my god you're saying

which actually i can understand i guess like at that age you're clearly not getting off because of him in the room laying in the bed he's like fucking about and we're not allowed to date right so you're like my best friend is my vibrator and there was a long period where there was no bedroom anymore either so there was like three years or four years or something like that where there was we're not allowed to date and there is no bedroom so it's like mr hatachi oh my god i love that i know every that's gonna go on sale it's gonna graphic of like uh stocking like a christmas stocking literally bridget get that coin bitch let's go um that's so funny and so you literally would

just be like okay fuck this like i'm gonna roll over and like and then you ended up really leaning into being able like okay i can masturbate and get myself off this doesn't have to be full hell yeah and it didn't make me feel so embarrassed about it either. Like I felt very it. It made me feel like this is a natural thing that we should we should be doing. Yeah. Without getting like too graphic because like when whatever you guys are comfortable with. I have a lot of a lot of women write in of just like being in situations that you're not comfortable, but not knowing how to speak up for yourself and basically being kind of pressured into doing something that you almost can't even comprehend until you have time away from it. Bridget and Holly, talk to me about just like those moments that like as a woman, you didn't know you were expected to have sex with this man or do all of this. Like mentally as young women, where were you at in just this experience with this situation sexually I feel like I was just so in over my head and so drunk that first night and like it's not like I didn't know that sex was going to go on upstairs but I thought well this is my first time out with

them who has sex on the first date I'll just go up and like see what's going on but I was super wasted and you know shit just happened yeah yeah for me I full-on knew that that was going to be expected but I too thought well the first night though like surely I can just be like oh it's the first night and like get out of this and I didn't even want to go upstairs the first night but then I was pressured by another girl who said if you ever want to be invited out again you better get your ass upstairs wow yeah there was another girl who we call the recruiter and there were different people who like functioned as the recruiter over the years and it's just interesting how these men who victimize other women often have like a woman

like a Ghislaine Maxwell type that will go out and get the other girls and make them feel comfortable or pressure them Harvey Weinstein had people like that too absolutely it's like they make you feel like you actually have no choice and it's like woman to woman like let's go let's do this and you're kind of like I I guess it's almost like the biggest bully that like leads the charge that if you say no you're completely done and it's like you don't have a minute to think for yourself when you say you knew you had to do these things did like girls say that to you well I had been hanging out long enough that I knew what was going on up there and I'd heard all kinds of rumors of what happened in the limo and when Hef asked me the first time to come out I said oh I've heard what happened and I don't want to do that and he was like oh and he just

like laughed it off and was not offended by that yeah so I knew I knew that that was going to be expected of me um and I I put a lot of thought into that because it wasn't something that like I I wasn't promiscuous I didn't have like a lot of people that I had been with that wasn't something I was like excited to be doing can you talk to me Bridget about like after that first night what what were you going through torture in my own head that very next morning like I felt ashamed I felt disgusting I felt like I really let myself down um I felt really lonely and I'm in a house where there's like a lot of people but I'm like oh no I feel so lonely and feel so gross and I have to get out of here like I have to get out of here right now and then what happened then I went

I still had an apartment like I wasn't living at the mansion yet and um I went back to my apartment and then that night that afternoon the um mansion like the social secretary has called and said hef wants you to meet tomorrow and go or tonight and go to um the craig kilbourne show with him and all his girlfriends he's going to be on it and wants you to do that and it's like all of a sudden it's like kind of exciting again wait they want me to go to the craig kilbourne show like what and so then i go on the craig and then not only are am i going to like sit in the audience with Hef and everybody but they have all of us girls shooting a skit backstage and and the thing we have to do is go hi I'm Hef's girlfriend and the next person says hi I'm Hef's girlfriend that was the skit like not a big deal or anything but like all of a sudden you feel like you're a

part of this this thing you know that's so interesting too to be like leaving in a moment for women and I think that's the most annoying when people like well then why did you go back why did you go back like I feel like that's such a common thing whether it was an abusive situation where it's like why didn't you leave why didn't you go back that's so common not just even to this situation which I appreciate you guys talking about this because it's a larger conversation for women of like why didn't you leave why did you go back talk to me about that of how like explaining to people that are fucking idiots that don't get it it's like it's not that simple like clearly you had this like oh my god there's this feeling of this man is so much there's power and there's things that come with this but the sexual aspect of it like did you ever

become okay with it did you just disassociate well now it's the point where I've done it now so like now if I leave and I just throw this all away now like I did it all for nothing and you feel like everybody knows right yeah kind of your social circle too like I felt like my two roommates had like moved away and right before I moved in like this was the mansion community it was a place I like went every Sunday had like moved away and right before I moved in like this was the mansion community it was a place I like went every Sunday for the pool parties and I felt like oh shit I just went upstairs and had sex like they're all gonna talk like they're all gonna know so I might as well get what I came here for you know can you guys talk to me a little bit about that of like

because I it is sadly so relatable Bridget of like what you guys are saying of like I already did it like it's even I think when women are in a situation that's like well now he's hit me twice but like he's not going to do it again and then when it happens again you're like but that's the last time like you rationalize in your mind because you're kind of trying to survive through this shit once you just kind of threw yourself into that world did you guys ever have moments by yourself in those rooms to be like what what is happening who am I like am I losing myself we would definitely vent to each other about certain

things but a lot of it I feel like was deflected for a couple years because there were seven girlfriends a lot of them we didn't get along with there was a lot of bullying and things like that and I didn't recognize it at the time but looking back I feel like he kind of like encouraged that and kind of it's like you keep people it's like divide and conquer like you keep like two sides divided then we can't all meet up and be like you know what we should see if he'll like give us extra money for this or else we're not going into the bedroom like he doesn't want that happening I'm curious to know because obviously like you guys experienced one of the biggest like what do you guys think drives controlling men insecurity like you would look at someone like him and think he has no reason

to be insecure he's so successful he has so many women around him he throws the best parties but that man was so insecure it was insane I think he was really afraid of dying alone yeah so he's like i'm gonna have 10 girlfriends at all times so i'm not alone wow or being and not even just dying alone but just being alone at all like if somebody he didn't even want to let us to go home for the holidays so and at some points he had like over seven girlfriends right you're like bro also like we barely talk like let's yeah like come on like when after you guys got out of there like did you find yourselves like talking about your dating patterns like after that did you have like an aversion to like men in positions of power did were you still attracted to men like what was your

what it was your type essentially well Well, for me, I went straight into another relationship that mirrored the Playboy relationship in some ways and got out of that very quickly. And that was kind of like a gift in a way that it showed me that this is a pattern. This isn't just anomaly behavior because this man was in a position. This is something that any man can do if he wants to so luckily I was shown that very quickly and realized what I didn't want and then I just dated kind of casually for a couple years and then I met the man that I married and had kids with and I'm divorced now but I'm in another relationship that I've been in for four years so amazing can you talk because I'm sure a

lot of girls are listening being like wait Holly like what can we look out for like not even just talking about half like what are some things even in that next relationship that like when you look at someone that is controlling like that like what are things that maybe in the moment you're like is that a red flag but you can kind of sweep under the rug like what's something that you now are like don't let this happen don't let this happen and don't let this happen I think the first sign is definitely moving too fast or you know what people call love bombing like I remember after I went out with Hef and the girls the first time he called me to invite me out the next time and he said I love you and I remember thinking ha ha that's funny but that's how he operates like he wants people to feel like emotionally comfortable and like oh this is romantic and

you're special and you're so mature for your age and all that bs or like if somebody wants people to feel like emotionally comfortable and like, oh, this is romantic and you're special and you're so mature for your age and all that BS. Or like if somebody wants you to move in with them right away or, you know, starting to like insert little controlling behaviors, they might give excuses for it or they might try and act like it's in your best interest or don't go do that show. I'll set you up with a better show. I mean, yeah. Or make you feel bad for wanting to go see your family or whatever and wanting you to spend it with them but they make it seem like it's romantic like well I want to spend it with you I want you here with me and stuff but it's really they don't want you to go see your family that's so interesting too which I know it's probably so hard again when

you're in it but you're so right it's like if you write it down on a piece of paper like what are they telling you that they want to spend the holiday with you but what is actually like physically happening I'm not allowed to see my family right because of this like and you're so right Holly it's like the way that they twist it I feel like I've heard so much of like when men are controlling of like what you wear and it's more like I just I want you to respect yourself like I I'm looking out for you and it's like the fuck like you're just you're actually telling me what I can and cannot wear but they pose it as like I I just want like people to respect you and like I want you to like not look like a whore and you're a little like huh like

they twist it so it's like you're right like they're looking out for you but really it's they're looking out for you to put you more in their thumb and just shove you down so that's like every move you almost question and keep looking at them Brid Bridget, did you end up going and dating someone similar or did you? No, I met somebody right out of the gate of the mansion. I mean, I met him at the mansion actually. Yeah. And we've been together for 15 years ever since. Girl. Oh my God. Wait, how did you know? Um, I don't know. I guess I don't really believe in love at first sight or anything like that, but I definitely thought he was so hot at first sight. It had to be a little bit of a slow burn because I wasn't allowed to date, but yet I thought he was really hot and he was a director. So I was producing a horror movie and I

was looking for directors. And so it started with like just some texts, like actual emails, like business wise and, and working together like that. And then as soon as I knew my foot was like, it wasn't even fully out of the door, but it was like reaching over the threshold. We were like dating. Oh my God. your relationship to men i feel like it's really difficult as women when you're wronged by so many men and like treated the way that you were and spoken to the way that you were like is there like how did how did you like how do you feel about men in general and like the world and like obviously it's not all men but like it's fucking hard to like go through what you guys men in general and like the world and like obviously it's not all men but

like it's fucking hard to like go through what you guys went through and be like men are amazing like how did how did when once you left the mansion and you actually started to have hindsight of like what the fuck happened there like how do you feel about men I mean I feel like I'm lucky I've had experience was with good men as well and I think it's just you know I'm 44 now and I kind of like don't give as much of a fuck about like what other people think so I'm able to speak up for myself more and if somebody's doing something that I think is based in sexism I'll just like say it and like I don't care yeah yeah I fucking love that yeah what about you Bridget I go through phases it depends on my mood I think like I know I'm with a really good guy

and, um, but there's some things that happen sometimes. And I can't even think of a specific example at the moment, but like something will happen and I'll be like, I fucking hate men. Like Jesus. And then, and then my boyfriend will be, or my husband will be like, Oh, you know what? They're not all that. And I'm like, Oh yeah're right right he's like uh babe yeah like love you and you're like oh wait yeah I think it's important to just acknowledge and talk about because I think the hatred can be real and it's and it's justifiable and it and it it makes me upset we're like I know for so long even with like the feminist movement people were like oh god like you're just a man hater it's not that it's like when you've been so wronged by men who historically white hetero men in positions of power like it's just abuse all fucking day and of course we're not saying that there aren't good ones but when

you've been at the hands of someone that is so fucking disturbed and how they abuse their power it must be hard to like trust people of like oh for sure I definitely have like trust issues like it takes a minute talk to me about that I mean I just takes me like a really long time like in my last couple of relationships I moved pretty slow just because I really wanted to get to know people and I would even talk with my friends who've also been in toxic relationships and we came up with a thing like how long does it take for a guy to show his toxicity because they always act real cool in the beginning we decided like it's usually like three to six months so I'm real careful the first six months they're like should I sleep over you're like at the six month mark yeah maybe but until then keep your fucking distance yeah that's so true it kind of is that

three to six it It really is. And it's crazy looking back to think that like you could even get into a relationship where you're like straight up living with somebody and feeling dependent on them within three months. But it happens all the time. And again, like we're still programmed. It's we're still like all of us are born with internalized misogyny. We're born into this world and it's like men rule women.

It's still that way. Like we're having to unlearn it. So I think there's those natural things when a man makes you feel taken care of. And when a man does certain things for you, you can't help but be like, huh? And it's like, I do think we're getting better now where it's like, no, ladies, ladies, no.

Like if anything, if you're feeling too good at the first like a couple of dates, just pause. Because if it's actually that good and he's actually that amazing, he can wait and it will happen. But I think sometimes that pressure feeling, it's hard to describe because you're like, is it excitement or do I feel like pressure to like do these things with him? And it's hard to discern like what is it healthy? Is it toxic? Like what's the situation

um but yeah i i appreciate you be like saying that bridget of just like some days i fucking i mean little things will set me off like somebody's tone the way they talk to me and stuff or a guy will tell me to smile which sends me sends me like give me a pretty smile and you're like oh shut the fuck up yeah like literally just shut up like things like that happening I'm just like I hate men can you give advice to girls that maybe are sitting there being like am I in one of those situations right now like how do you get out how do you actually leave something like that that's so all-consuming and suffocating I think first like making a plan for

yourself on what you're going to do because oftentimes when people are stuck in these relationships there's a financial element and a lot when people want to criticize and be like well why didn't you leave? Nobody says that to somebody when it's a job. Like if somebody has a sucky boss or a toxic work environment they might complain about it for days but you understand why they're there because they need the paycheck. But if you're in a relationship or a living situation where there's some kind of financial component people like well why don't you just fucking leave you know such a good point yeah that's stupid and i do think that's a good point that you said of like a lot of the times also the reason that's it's hard to get out of something is because you can't you don't tell anyone so like it you can't confide in people

the person that you talk to the most is the person that's basically abusing you. And so you're like, where do I go now? And they oftentimes want to isolate you. I think the best thing is coming up with a plan. Like, what are you going to do for work? Where are you going to go? Who's your support system? Saving money.

Yeah. What do you guys think is like the biggest misconception about you as like former playmates? Like, what do you think is that something that like maybe frustrates you that we're one-dimensional I think unintelligent yeah bimbos I said that at the start of the show and I'm still saying that 20 years later people think we're bimbos if you're blonde and have big boobs and we're in playboy you're clearly not very smart what do you say to those people I feel like I'm just tired of defending and I feel like I've proved myself I have a master's degree like we have a successful podcast we've had successful careers I mean what more do you want yeah yeah people are always going

to say that the fact that I like pink the fact that I like Barbies the fact that I love Halloween all of that is like belittled and like you can't be intelligent and like those things too yeah it's so true it's like if you are just like a beautiful woman that people like to look to like look at sometimes you're just reduced to your looks and it's like there's no way that she's smart there's no way that they have brains like there's no way and it's like you got to where you are today for a reason and you guys have such a successful business that you like you said holly like you've created something of yourself and it has nothing to do with him like he's fucking dead and you're like you're still cranking and you've got your businesses and you're going and like that was so long ago i do understand why people are fascinated

by it and i'm sure you guys do at this point too just because it's such like a world people can't fathom but I do think there's a lot of themes today that we've been talking about that's like it is kind of relatable it is women feeling like well maybe if I just do it and get my foot in the door then maybe I'll get taken seriously and and okay maybe that made me feel uncomfortable but like next time I'm gonna I'm gonna do it a little bit differently and then you get in the situation and you forget how powerful these people are and it just makes you feel like okay but next time like even you said Bridget you're like I went home I felt like shit I felt disgusting but then I got the call and it's like it's hard to explain when you're in it what would you tell your younger self now where you're at just through life like we know as women we go through a lot you guys have been through

relationships and experiences like young Holly, young Bridget, like now where you're at in your life. What would you guys tell yourselves at that young age? Don't be so hard on yourself. I mean, it's easy for me to say now because I know like everything turned out fine. But I would go back and be like, don't be so miserable. Don't be so hard on yourself. It's not the end of the world.

You know, love it. Yeah, things do work out. Like because there were times where I didn't think it hard on yourself. It's not the end of the world. You know. Love it. Yeah. Things do work out. Like because there were times where I didn't think it was going to. There was times where I was like I have to have a plan B now. I don't think I'm going to be here tomorrow kind of thing. It's we're all our own worst enemies. But I can't thank you guys enough for coming because i feel like there's so many themes that

now and i'm sure you guys are talking about on your show that like it's relatable what you guys have been through and it's taking a different form in every generation but like it's still happening yeah i think so too right it's definitely still happening like i don't know if you guys thought for a while did you guys feel like you were just like in this own bubble of like we no one can relate and now do you guys kind of feel like you're like seeing like fuck this is like kind of what a lot of women go through absolutely I remember when we were at the mansion I didn't feel like I was necessarily setting a bad example by being there being on tv because I'm like well this couldn't happen anywhere else like I know this situation sucks for me in a lot of ways but

it doesn't happen anywhere else but it does happen a lot of other places. Like there were even other places in L.A. they would call them like mini mansions where like there would be guys that kind of like behaved in the same way Hef did and had women there and stuff. And we heard a lot of crazy bad stories about those places, too. And every time we watch an episode for a podcast, I think of some kind of issue that's relatable to people. Even you saying that I'm like promoters. I remember in college, like I didn't want to hook up with this one guy, but like he was getting all of my friends and I into this place and I'm just like in his car and I'm

like, okay. And like, he's like kind of pressuring me and I'm like, I don't know what to say. And it's like, it's difficult, but it's like kind of pressuring me and I'm like I don't know what to say and it's like it's difficult but it's like you see it everywhere it's like when you don't have independence and financial stability like it is such a fucking privilege to be financially stable because when you're not it is fucking hard to look at someone and turn something down that is although again you get that weird gut feeling of like i don't want to do this the the reward of like what you could get to because we're not thinking about the moment we're like well will i meet the people in the room could i get the job from this like it's like you said it's the harvey

weinstein shit it's like oh he's threatening my whole fucking career so i guess i have to sleep with this man or hollywood is never going to give me another job like it's never the in the moment that you're actually having to think about it's where you're thinking past it and that's what i think is lost on people is like we as women aren't just making these decisions of like okay this seems cool in the moment no it's like there's a plan that you have to think of of like surviving in your head and i i don't appreciate that people can't be that like they just are so dense that they're like well you just want to have sex with an old man it's like yeah it's so much more complex than that like but there are guys that would say that yeah I've never said yeah oh like you what you're complaining now and it's like that's just not the case so I appreciate you guys coming on you both are like yes you're you're so inspirational and I

I'm just like excited to continue to see what you guys do because although you're like what you popped off originally on, it's so cool to see you guys continue to build your brands and like talk about things that are really important and everyone, please go listen to the podcast because it is so fucking good. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. you