Call Her Daddy - How to Stop Self-Sabotage

Episode Date: October 23, 2022

You get rejected after a date and tell yourself you’re going to end up alone. You procrastinate a huge assignment and end up pulling an all-nighter to barely complete the task. You don’t hit your goal when training for an upcoming race and decide to withdraw from the competition. These are all examples of self-sabotage. Dr. Judy Ho, triple board certified and licensed clinical and forensic neuropsychologist, joins Call Her Daddy to explain why we self-sabotage, how to recognize it, and provide tangible tools on how to overcome it. This episode will help you to get out of your own spiral of negative thoughts and work towards your goals.

What is up, Daddy Gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper, with Call Her Daddy. Dr. Judy, welcome to Call Her Daddy. I'm so excited to be here. So excited to have you. Daddy Gang, Dr. Judy is a triple board certified and licensed clinical and forensic neuropsychologist and author of the book Stop Self-Sabotage. I'm so excited to do this episode with you because self-sabotage is something a lot of people I think manage to do without any awareness around it. And I think this is going to be very helpful for a lot of my listeners. So let's get into it. How do you define self-sabotage? So self-sabotage put very simply

is just getting in your own way, despite your best intentions. And this could happen in all areas of life. It could happen with your career, happen with friendships, family relationships, romantic relationships, or your health and wellness goals. Why is self-sabotage a universal experience? So what I believe about self-sabotage is that it's really rooted in our biology and our evolutionary instincts, but it's almost like the switch got turned around. So essentially all human beings have two major drives. It's to attain rewards and to avoid threat. That's how we survive as individuals and also as a species. But sometimes through experiences or maybe through other types of things that have happened, whether earlier in our life or in our adult lives or what shaped our personality, there's a few different reasons for

which we can get into. But sometimes what happens is that avoiding threat switch gets turned way up. So if those two things are in balance, attaining rewards and avoiding threat, everything's all good. But when you're trying really hard to avoid threat, that out of balance is what self-sabotage is because you start to avoid the things that you probably should take a little risk for, but you don't because of the various fears

that have sort of accumulated throughout the years. And a lot of this is subconscious to people. So that's why people are saying I self-sabotage something because on the surface, and when they talk to themselves or other people, they're always saying, yes, I want this goal, but then how come they get in the way? It's because those fears end up turning your avoiding threat switch way up. And then you start doing things to essentially stop yourself from meeting the other goals that you've set for yourself. That is such a great way to look at it. And it seems again, so simple and yet it's so hard to avoid doing it. So you have an acronym life. So can you explain the factors, aka this life acronym you have that contribute to self

sabotage? Definitely. So this life acronym are the most common reasons why people turn up that threat switch. And you may find yourself thinking, well, one of these letters fits me, or it could be all of them, or it could be a combination. So L stands for low or shaky self-esteem. This means that someplace in your self-concept, and we all have various forms of self-esteem. We might have a certain self-esteem with relationships, a certain one with our health and wellness goals. And so everybody's self-esteem might have all these different facets, but there might be an area of life where your self-esteem isn't as strong. And you're going to find that in that area of life, you might self-sabotage more because there's something in your internal self-talk that

says, maybe I don't deserve it or wait, everything's going right. That doesn't make sense. This isn't something that happens for me in this area of life. I stands for internalized beliefs from childhood. So when we're children, we learn everything so quickly because we're just soaking up the world. And so the adults around us and how they behave and how they interact with the world, especially when stressors come up and problems come up, we're going to start to internalize that over time. And sometimes you don't even realize it. And as an adult, all of a sudden you're thinking, oh my gosh, I'm doing what my mom would have done, you know, and maybe it was something that I watched her do and thought that was weird. But now I'm that person who's a little too afraid to step out of my comfort zone.

F stands for fear of change or fear of the unknown. Now, most human beings are not great with fear of change. And the reason is, again, survival, like we want to be able to control our universe. And so when there's a lot of change going on and a lot of unknowns that kind of frightens us, but there are some people whose personality is even more so towards wanting things to kind of stay at a homeostasis. And so for those individuals, you might find that F is that factor that drives that avoidance switch up. And then finally, E is excessive need for control.

So this is where all of my type A people, go-getters out there, and I say that lovingly because I see myself a little bit as a type A person, a little bit of a control freak. But sometimes when that happens and you go too far, it's like you don't even move forward because everything has to be so controlled and everything has to be perfectly within your space

that you don't let things happen on their own when they should. And a good example of this is romantic relationships. For some people, some of my clients that I've worked with who are more type A, it's like they just can't let go enough to allow themselves to be vulnerable in a romantic relationship. And then they end up self-sabotaging those types of pursuits. I appreciate you sharing that because it's so helpful. Sometimes when you have these terms like self-sabotage and you keep doing it, when you don't have the ability to break it down and try to figure out specifically for you why you're doing it, it can feel even more overwhelming of like, this is a never ending cycle. So to have that acronym life, you can almost

try to find which specifically is fitting for you as to why you're self-sabotaging. Cause like, that is just a start of like, Oh, I am a control freak. And maybe that is why. And then you can start to work on it. What are self-sabotage triggers and why is it important that we recognize them? So everything starts with your thoughts and sometimes we don't notice it right away, but you know, there's always those days people can point to where they say, wow, I woke up and I just didn't feel right. Or just in a bad mood, or maybe they'll do something and they'll say, man, I really wish I didn't do that.

But if you rewind just a little bit before that, there's usually a thought that drove that feeling or that behavior, but we don't notice all of the thoughts that we have because an average human being has 50,000 thoughts in a day. There's no way that we're processing all of it. And so sometimes it almost becomes internalized and yet it affects how we feel and affects how we behave. So self-sabotage triggers are essentially that negative thought that drives your negative feelings and actions that you wish you didn't take. And there's patterns to them. And so the most common triggers include catastrophizing, where one little bad thing happens and your thought immediately goes to the worst case scenario.

And then also sometimes people will discount the positive. This is another trigger where essentially, even though there's good things happening, they just say, well, anybody can do that. You know, let's focus on these other things where I'm not doing as well in my performance review. And that means I'm never going to get promoted. So it's almost like an extension of the catastrophizing, but it's really about negating to be grateful for the things that are going right in your life, or maybe just counting them. So they're not important. There's also mind reading. This is another trigger where we think that we know what other people are thinking about us, what we're doing. You know,

it's interesting because of course we want to know what other people are thinking of us, but most of the times the way that we think about what other people are thinking is not really what's happening. And yet we then behave based on those assumptions. So that can be a self-sabotage trigger. There's also shoulds. So back to those people who are overachievers, it almost feels like they're never doing enough. And so it's always, I should have done more today. I should have checked more off of my to-do list. I should already meet my health and wellness goals by now. Why haven't I lost that 20 pounds that I've been trying to lose this whole year? And those types of shoulds will really allow people to essentially get into this negative

mind space where they don't move forward in their goals. So it almost compounds the problem and it contributes to a negative cycle. There's also a type of trigger where people essentially have black and white thinking. They look at the life that they have as either all good or all bad, and there's no grays in the middle. And that can also be really difficult because if you go to that, everything is bad place, then it's much easier to self-sabotage on a specific day when you're already not feeling your best. And then you think, okay, everything is just crashing and burning. And so a lot of these different types of self-sabotage triggers kind of happen on repeat,

but we don't notice them. And they usually happen mostly when we're stressed out, because when things are going well, we probably don't commit these self-sabotage triggers. It's more when things aren't going well, or when you're particularly stressed that your mind basically goes back to these patterns. And they're so automatic at this point that you're not consciously registering them, but they are affecting how you feel and how you behave. Okay. So I have a couple examples of like self-sabotage that then we can almost break down, like, was it catastrophizing? Was it black and white thinking? So if someone can almost like digest this in almost simpler terms of like, okay, someone's

on a date and despite thinking that it went really well, the other person doesn't want a second date and you become upset and believe that no one will ever want to date you and you'll end up alone and you delete all of your dating apps because you think it's just a waste of time. I'm never going to find anyone. What is that an example of? So that is a great example of black and white thinking and also of catastrophizing that black and white thinking is sort of, okay, that's it. I'm deleting all my ads. Like it's so extreme. It's not in between like, okay, I'll just take a week off of the dating

apps. Cause you know, I'm a little discouraged right now. Right? Like that seems like a more balanced and understandable viewpoint, but totally like just completely erase all traces of the dating profiles that they've spent so long crafting, right. People like upload their photos, write this thoughtful message about why they're looking for a date, you know, and then it's also an example of catastrophizing. Like, well, why do I even bother? I'm never going to find anyone anyway. I'll just end up alone. So as you can see, sometimes situations can have more than one self-sabotaging trigger, but that's a really good example of those two. Okay. So you've been seeing someone for months now and spend plenty of time together and text frequently throughout the day. You have

a lot of dates and you really like this person, but despite repeated assurances that he feels the same way, you question how he feels about you. You act insecure in the relationship and frequently question who he is texting and what he is doing. And when you aren't together, you're a little anxious. These actions end up pushing him away, even though he's reassured you all the time. Great example, something that I'm sure everybody's like, yes, I've done this, or I know somebody who's done this mind reading where, you know, you're almost like ignoring the actual evidence and you have like your own narrative going on, but that narrative is almost always negative. And it's also a good example of discounting the positive,

right? You can imagine this person maybe talking to their friends and saying, no, everything seems fine. He's totally into you. And they're saying, no, but something's up because sometimes when I call him, he doesn't call me back right away. It's like, okay, but also he has a life and he has a job and sometimes I just have his phone with him and blah, blah, blah, you know, but you kind of discount all of the great things that are going on.

And then I would almost think that this example might even extend to another self-sabotage trigger that we haven't talked about, which is personalization. So this is one where you compare yourself all the time to other people, but you always feel like you come up short. So essentially you'll compare yourself to somebody who's doing really well. And you keep finding the ways that you're different rather than the ways that maybe you're the same. Like, oh, well, my boss, you know, she's very similar to me. We went to a similar college. You know, we have the same experience. So one day maybe I could have a job like hers.

Instead, you're thinking, well, no, you know, she's only two years older than me. And look how much farther she is in her career. Right. So you can see that this could also kind of happen in this relationship where, oh, but some of my friends are already getting married. You know, my best friend, she has no idea because even though she's telling me that everything's going well, what would she know? She's in a happy marriage and they've been together for 10 years and she doesn't have these kinds of concerns. That personalization. I think a lot of people will relate to. That's a great example. Okay. So we go through these, everyone's like,

okay, Dr. Judy, I'm feeling like shit. Help, help, help. What strategies do you recommend in order to deactivate self-sabotaging thoughts? Great question. And of course, once you identify the problem, we want to solve the problem. And so one of the biggest things is really starting to learn to work with your thoughts in a different way. And I have three major categories of techniques to help you work with those negative thoughts or those self-sabotage triggers. So the first thing that we have to do is just to make sure that we start to pay more attention to our thinking. And the best way to do this is sometimes when we notice a negative feeling or an action we wish we didn't do with self-sabotaging action, just ask yourself this very simple question. What was I thinking just

before this? If you ask yourself that question routinely, you'll start to learn what the patterns are. You'll start to learn, oh, okay, I see. Anytime that I notice a negative feeling or an action I wish I didn't do, and I rewind the tape, I notice that a lot of my thoughts are catastrophizing thoughts, or a lot of my thoughts are should thoughts. So that's one way to first start identifying those triggers. Once you know what triggers are plaguing you and leading you to self-sabotage, then you apply these three categories of techniques. So the first one is really about questioning your thoughts. Oftentimes when a thought happens in our mind, we just automatically assume that it's true. And then we think even more negative thoughts about it. So it's really

important just to start questioning it and say, okay, what's the evidence here that this thought is true? And what's the evidence that it's not. And when I say evidence, I don't mean just another thought that you have. It's more like something that maybe your best friend or a family member can observe and say, oh yeah, that's true. Like it has to be something that somebody else can essentially prove. Right. So if you have a negative thought that says I'm never going to get a promotion, right. Well, what's the evidence for that? Well, I guess the evidence for is that I haven't gotten a promotion so far, but what's the evidence against, well, I got two really great performance reviews in the last year. And I almost feel like that means that I'm next.

You know, the next time there's going to be an opportunity at my company, I'm going to be the next person who's going to get this promotion. So really getting used to that idea of asking yourself, what's true about this thought and what's not. The second category of techniques is about creating or modifying another thought. So if you have these negative thoughts, you have to start changing the way that they act. But it's not just about saying a bunch of positive mantras because that doesn't work when you're not feeling well. So my trick for this technique is called

yes, but creating a new thought that acknowledges something that's not going so well, but then acknowledging something that is either in process or is going well. Like, yes, that date didn't work out, but I feel like I'm getting closer. The last couple of dates that I've had were better than the ones that I had before. Right. So just really realizing the pros and cons of every situation. And then the last category of techniques is really just being able to change your relationship to your thought. Sometimes you're going to have such a bad day that that negative thought will keep coming back and you've done the other two techniques and you're like, but it's not working. So then it's really important

just to change how you feel about your thought in the first place. And I have a really simple shorthand for this. Whatever negative thought you're having, just add this little sentence in front of it. I'm having the thought that. So now your original negative thought, which could have been, I'm going to end up alone, which feels so true is now I'm having the thought that I'm going to end up alone. So you put a little bit of space between you and that thought, and you're labeling it as just a thought and nothing more like this doesn't have to be my reality. I'm just having this thought. It's just a mental event that I'm having. I'm still in control. That's so helpful because I feel like when you're in those moments, it's so hard to rationalize anything, but the downfall of those thoughts and you're spiraling and you're spiraling,

and then it just keeps getting worse. So to have those little tools to implement when you feel like you're doing it, you're like, okay, hold on. Yes. But, or even, I love how you're like distancing yourself from this. Cause it's such a definitive thought of like, I'm going to be alone forever. Hold on. You're having a thought that is not a statement you should wear as like a badge of honor. Like, no, that's in the moment and tomorrow that could change. That's so, so helpful. I couldn't help when we were talking, think about this word that kept coming up in my head of like, when I think about self-sabotage, especially in the age of social media and everything is comparison, right? Like I feel like so many people now, especially women, we have this comparison with each other and it's not healthy.

So how is comparison a type of self-sabotage? Well, comparison is a really main trigger for self-sabotage. Like we were just talking about that personalization trigger is essentially comparisons. And I think the reason why we all do it is because we're, we're social beings. And, you know, we want to kind of check in and see how everybody is doing. And in essence, it is part of what makes us get along with people like we do have to like, you know, take into account what others are thinking and feeling. And that helps us with our relationships. But then when we do that at the exclusivity of our own agendas, that becomes a self-sabotaging issue because you're never going to be able to be the absolute best in the universe at something ever. Right. Even Einstein, like, you know,

he was obviously this amazing, like crazy brainiac, but also there's so many other brainiacs, like trying to beat him at other inventions, right? It's like, it doesn't matter no matter what you're doing. There's always going to be possibly somebody who might be doing something a little better than you. And also a lot of it's perception, right? Like somebody else could look at you and be like, no, you're the absolute best at X, Y, Z, but to somebody else, maybe it's a little bit different. And so I think that comparison is so subjective. And yet we hang ourselves, you know, based on it so much. Like we hang all our hopes and dreams on all of this.

And then what's really tricky then is maybe you get to a point where you really do feel good, but then the next day you get up and you compare yourself to another person and now you don't feel good again. And so you can never get to that point where you have a stable self-esteem, you know, it's almost like whatever happens to that given day, it changes how you feel about yourself. And that can be really difficult to move forward in your goals because we tend to do things that is consistent with how we believe we are. And so if you keep feeling bad about yourself, you're not going to feel like you deserve good things. And that's going to halt you in any kind of goal pursuit you have. And that's where self-sabotage begins.

It's so true. And it's such a dangerous spiral that you can get into for some of your patients. What strategies do you recommend for someone who is constantly bombarded with thoughts of comparison? So I know you mentioned social media earlier and just made me think about some of my patients who are totally black and white. They're like, I'm just going to take all my social media offline. It's like, well, we live in a world where social media is a reality. So like, is that really like the best way? Because then they feel really bad. Like 10 days later, they're like, okay, I'm going to restart my social media account. You know, they have to try to find all your friends again. And so it's really about having a little bit more of a balance, like understanding that comparisons is always going to be part of our existence because it's, again, just a

natural evolutionary drive for human beings, but also just understanding how to temper it and how to moderate it. You can compare yourself, but at the same time, the most important thing is to ask yourself, am I living a life that I truly value that I can look back on and feel proud about? And even in the day where maybe you don't feel like you achieved as much, or maybe you looked on social media and you're like, man, that person is doing so much better than I am. Like look back on your top three values and values are not things you can check off. They're kind of things that you want to stand for or how you want to be remembered when you're

not in the room. Like, you know, integrity, adventure, knowledge, spirituality, community. Those are just some examples of the thousands of values that you can have. And if you just review your day and you say, okay, here are my top three values. Did I do something? Even if it's a small thing in service of each of those three values, then you can feel good about what you're doing and your progress because every day your goal pursuit is going to be different, but not hanging yourself so much on those comparisons. And I say this all the time, and I think people just forget, but other people's social media tend to be their highlight reels. And you don't see like the challenges that they're having. You don't see when they have a really, really tough day. Most people don't post about those

days. Right. And so it's really not fair because you're comparing yourself to this 1% slice of the You don't see when they have a really, really tough day. Most people don't post about those days, right? And so it's really not fair because you're comparing yourself to this 1% slice of the best of their life. And that's why it's not a comparison that works because it's not even on the equal playing field. I think we also internalize a lot of that comparison because it's social media. So you're not even like, it's just internal thoughts that you're spiraling. And I love that you talk about like your values and what you stand for on top of comparison.

Why is procrastination such a common form of self-sabotage? I love this question because procrastination is so common to so many people, even people who are super high achieving and they almost don't get it. Like, why, why am I doing this when I know I have the ability to just finish this project? And I think sometimes, you know, procrastination does come from a place where you're trying to do your best and that's why you end up putting everything off. It's almost as if you feel like there's so much expectation for whatever project you're working on that it's hard for you to just start the project because you want everything to be perfect when you do, right? And so that can happen sometimes where it's essentially, it's a, a, a striving for perfection that gets turned on its

head and then starts to sabotage your career pursuits and even your relationships sometimes. But I think also procrastination can come from a place of fear. What if I finish this project and I put it out there and people don't like it? What if I put everything I have into this presentation? I know it's my best effort. And then people laugh at me during my presentation or they yawn or they think it's boring. I think it's those types of fears that can drive people to procrastinate and to then of course feel even worse about themselves because every day that goes by they're procrastinating more and that negative self-talk then precludes them from starting the project again that next day. So you can see how it can become this huge negative cycle if we don't keep it in check. What would you say to a patient who is like, listen, I know

it's bad to procrastinate, but sometimes I work better under pressure. I need the motivation of a deadline to kick things into gear and get me motivated and like last minute kind of stuff. What would you say to them? Well, it's a great question. I would say I used to be one of those people. So I'm glad that you pointed that out as another reason for why sometimes we self-sabotage these narratives that we tell ourselves that we work better under pressure. I think that that's true to an extent, but stress is a U-shaped curve. So what we know from research is that there's kind of like a perfect level of stress, kind of a middle level of stress where it drives you to succeed and that motivation kicks in. But then when the

stress is too much, then you're going downhill again, your performance goes downhill. And what people don't sometimes realize, because I totally understand that that drive sometimes does help you to achieve to an extent, but we also have selective memory. So once we've decided that we have this idea about why procrastination works for us, we've literally forgotten about all those times when it hasn't, where maybe you waited till the last minute and you turned in the most botched project ever, but you just put it out of your mind as if it never happened. And I would just challenge anybody who has this type of instinct to ask yourself, has there been at least one time though, in my life where this did not work for me, whether, you know, it was, I waited way too long and I ended up pulling an all-nighter and felt

sick for three days straight. Or there was a couple of times where I waited till the last minute. And I know that what I put together was totally not my best work. And somebody even commented on the fact that it wasn't my best work. And I think that everybody would find that there are these occurrences, but again, the selective memory tells you, ah, I'm going to forget about it. And then the next time you're doing the same thing again. I relate to that so deeply. Like I always would think, especially sometimes I would be doing episodes and I'm like, I'm the best when it's like last minute, like put it together. And then

I, yeah, I would be basically out for the next couple of days. Cause I would need to sleep because I'm pulling all nighters and I'm exhausted. Then you get sick. And he's like, that is not healthy. Yeah. It may have been a great episode and funny, but like not worth it where like you could have also done that a couple of days prior and been gotten ahead. I love that example. Okay. Kind of talking about that stress and putting things off. How can certain situational factors such as not getting enough sleep the night prior or getting in a fight with your partner cause someone to be more likely to engage in self-sabotaging behavior? So a lot of times what we try to look for when we start to identify these patterns of self-sabotage is to find what I call antecedents. So antecedents

are essentially the thing that happens before the self-sabotage happens. And the more that you can identify your antecedents, the more we can build strategies around them to either avoid them or sidestep them. So they then don't lead into the self-sabotage. So one example might be somebody who is trying to eat more healthily. And yet every time they go to the movie theater, they get that popcorn, they get all those snacks and they like, you know, polish all of it off in the theater. And they keep saying, well, I don't know why I keep doing that. And well, you do that because you always walk by the snack stand on purpose. Like maybe there's a different way to get to the theater, but you're walking past the

snack stand so that you would be tempted. You start smelling the butter on the popcorn. You're like, I'm going to get that. Right. And so those are kinds of things called antecedents where essentially they could be situations or even things that can happen to you or things that happen with another person. So to your example of maybe getting into a fight with somebody, well, when you get into a fight with somebody, you're already in a negative emotional state. So in that state, it's going to be harder to make better decisions. It's going to be harder to have good self-control to exercise your better thinking and judgment in all of the different other things that you have to do that day. And so if you do find yourself getting into these crises with other people in your life who are important to you, it's important to try to find some way

to come to an agreement. Let's put this aside, but come back in a few hours to talk about it. And that way you can compartmentalize and move on with the rest of your day instead of thinking in a huff about all the things that happened and what are you gonna say to this person

when you next see them. And so it's really important to just understand how those types of things can lead into self-sabotage in a very automatic way. And so finding ways to manage them to the best of your ability so they don't then trigger self-sabotage because you're not in your best state of mind. I feel like there's a lot of people, you know, recently it's like, I have my vision board. I've got my vision board ready to go. Like what is your take on vision boards? So I think visualization tools are super important, but I do have a beef with a lot of vision

boards, the way that they're done, because it's all of these beautiful, big grand goals that you want for your life, but there's no route to get there. And so I've had my clients come into my office and say, well, I had this vision board and it actually made me depressed. And I asked them why? And they say, well, because I put all these things on my vision board and I didn't achieve most of them. But when you put these things on your vision board, you have to also come up with the steps to get there and really assess whether it's realistic or not. And if it is realistic, how are you going to manage getting there within this next three

months, six months, or however long you've given yourself to achieve these goals? And so for me, I think the visualization piece is absolutely important. But my version of a visualization tool is called the blueprint for change. And essentially, it's like the blueprint of a house. When you see a blueprint, you know exactly how big this room is going to be, where the bathroom is going to go, you know, all of the different ways in which you're going to build this house. So very similarly, my blueprint for change integrates all of these different elements and some of these techniques that we've been talking

about during this podcast to essentially put it all on one page. And that way you actually know, okay, here are my triggers. Here's what I do when I have a trigger. Here are my common antecedents. Here's how I can sidestep them, but they're all on one page. So then you can go back to this as a, at a glance reference, whenever you are having a tough day or you notice yourself sabotaging, instead of having to dig through the book or to think with the best part of your mind and say, okay, I'm already really dysregulated, but how can I make a good decision now? Just go and look at this blueprint for change because everything is there and you don't have to make that decision in the moment. You can shortcut that decision, especially when you're having a tough time.

Can you explain the concept of an if, when, then plan and why it's a useful tool to incorporate when working towards a goal? Absolutely. So in the spirit of what we were just talking about, it's important to have that plan of how you're going to get to these big goals. You should absolutely make these big goals, right? If you're really, if somebody's listening and they're saying, Hey, being president of the United States is one of my goals. Good for you. Like that's great. But you obviously have to find those stepping stones and the if, when, thens are actually a way to construct a plan ahead of time

that sidesteps your antecedents or certain barriers that could come in the way of you reaching your goal. So one of the visualization techniques that I like to teach as part of my self-sabotage program is to do a mental contrasting exercise. So this isn't just about visualizing all the things that you want and how you're going to feel when you finally reach that goal, but it's also about visualizing the kind of things that could get in the way of that. Now, most people don't like to do that kind of visualization because they're like, I want my visualizations to be positive, but it is important to think about, well, what could get in the way of that? What are the things that could be barriers for me to achieve my goals? The importance of this

part of the exercise is so that we can then make a plan in advance so that when those barriers come up, you're not going to be dejected. You're not going to be discouraged. You're not going to say, oh man, I knew it. This was never going to work out. Then you're back to yourself, sabotage, trigger thoughts again. You know, it's about, oh, well guess what? This is happening. And I knew this would happen because I did that mental contrasting exercise where I identified this barrier and I created a plan in advance. And now I just have to do the plan. So the, if, when, then is very simple. It's just a statement, a simple statement of if, or when this barrier happens, I'm going to do this. So for somebody who might be having a difficult time exercising and they're saying, well, there's never time or I get tired. It's

almost like thinking about those barriers. Okay. There's no time. And I get tired. Those are the two main barriers. So if I feel tired, then I'm going to just commit to taking a five minute walk. And that's it. It's not about 30 minute workout and hour workouts. Just, just take the five minute walk for today, because that's at least me getting moving and getting going in the right direction. Or, okay, if I feel really tired at the end of the day, then I need to just wake up 15 minutes before and exercise in the morning. Again, even if it's just 15 minutes, like that will preclude me from saying I'm too tired at the end of my workday. So once you make these plans in advance, the powerful part of it is when the barriers come up, you don't have to do any thinking. It's almost like following a recipe.

You just read what you have on the journal that you've written this down and do it. And then you're going to build more confidence over time that, okay, anytime a barrier comes up, I can manage it. I can problem solve it. And that moves you towards your goals incrementally over time. I love that so much. And I'm going to start doing that because I feel like we get so again in our heads of when something's not going right you can spiral or you can do something like I'm just gonna go sit and watch tv because I'm in a bad mood from that and if you have something written down when you were in a good headspace when you could conceptualize of like I know when I get like this this is really what I would need or what would be helpful like Like you said, a five minute walk turns into a 10 minute walk and then you're there for

15 minutes and then you have a clear head and you're like, oh my gosh, I can go back in and try to keep working on that. Or I'm going to take the day off because I actually deserve a break. Like it, it just helps to have something pre-planned almost rather than in the moment when you are spiraling a little bit, just not knowing what to do. I love that so much. What would you say to a patient who is like, oh, I just don't have enough willpower to reach my goal.

Like, I just don't know if I can do it. Well, I think a lot of times when people talk about willpower, they talk about it as if it's like a gift that they were given when they were born. Somebody just has more willpower than me. You know, you do that comparison thing again. Well, yes, I know my brother has done all these things, but he just was born with more willpower. And the truth is willpower is a skill set that you can practice. It's like learning to ride a bike. It's like learning to drive. All of us can do it eventually, even if some of us, it takes us a little bit longer to get there. And so I tell people that willpower is not so much about somebody being born with more of it than not. It's about you consciously deciding to work on it as a skillset that you're going to build. And willpower also, it's important to, to also have realistic ideas about it. Willpower is not a infinite resource. You can't just have a ton of willpower at 11 PM at night when you only slept three hours that day. Willpower is like a muscle, like your body muscles where sure. Some of our most elite athletes, maybe they could run 30 miles at a time,

but eventually they're going to have to rest. Right. And so willpower is similar. So you want to try to harness your willpower when it is at its best. And for most people, even if you're not a morning person, it tends to be in the morning. But I try to tell people, you know, do a little bit of experiment on yourself, you know, figure out when you are at your best during your day, try tackling the biggest project you have to do in the morning and midday in the afternoon and see when you're at your sharpest and when you feel best and most engaged, and then start to put all of your big to-do items during that block of time in your day. That's one way to harness your current willpower. But another way that you can build your willpower is to really rely on finding the deeper reasons for why you're

doing something. So back to comparisons again, just because that's such an important part of what people do when they sell sabotage, they oftentimes will have these bucket list items. And then at the end, when they reach the goal, they kind of feel empty because they don't really know why they even wanted that goal in the first place, other than the fact that everybody else was doing it, right? So it is really important, once again, to go back to your values. What is the most important reason why I even want this goal, right? And if you are locked into your values, and you know that your goal is in service of those values, then when things get tough,

you're going to have more willpower to keep going because anything that's worth achieving tends to have both positives and negatives. However, if your values and your goals are not aligned, that's when things get tough. You're more likely to quit because there isn't that internal drive to say, you know what? I don't care how difficult this is. It's important to me and I'm just going to stick with it. Right? So one good example is if somebody has a value of integrity, is it really always easy to be that person that has integrity? No, that means that sometimes you have to tell people how it is. You're probably going to get into arguments with people because somebody might not agree with you. Why are you not just taking the easy way out? But in the end you do it because it's important to you,

right? So really understanding, are your goals really truly aligned with your top values? And if they're not, you might have to re-look at your goals, re-examine why they're even there in the first place. Is there a different way to fine tune it so that they do fit in with your value system. That's so helpful to think about because I also do feel like we're in this like machine, right? Of like, everyone's supposed to go to college and then you're supposed to get the job and then you're supposed to find your husband. And it's like, I feel like sometimes we don't pause to have individual thoughts of, well, for me, what makes sense? And I have never sat down and been like, what are my values in comparison to what are

my goals? And do they align? And like, I think they do, but like it, it is helpful, I think, to actually pause and even write things down, because I also feel like what you're saying is it can help your, your purpose a little bit, be more like stronger of like, I'm going to be able to have that willpower to get through a hard moment because I know what is like the ethos behind this decision I'm doing. Cause it relates back to my value, which is this. And like, it almost can, yeah, it can be more motivating rather than

send you into the self-sabotage spiral, which I love. Okay. So when we're wrapping up people, listening to this, that now we're like, okay, I I'm listening to this. I'm feeling a little overwhelmed because I'm realizing that I definitely am a self-sabotager in my romantic relationship, my career, or my lifestyle habits. What is just like the first step they should take, Dr. Judy? Well, the first step I think is just to have self-compassion and say, this is universal. It happens to the best of us. It doesn't mean anything about me. And even the most accomplished people experience self-sabotage sometimes.

But if it has become a pattern for you, just recognizing that there are ways to solve the problem. And we've talked about a lot of these techniques today, and just know that there is that prescription plan and you are going to get over it. And it's a skill. Avoiding self-sabotage is a skill that you can build. So even if you feel like it's taken over your life in a very negative way, you can reverse that cycle when you try to work the steps of this program. And I have a lot of free resources. One easy first step is just to go and take the life quiz. It's free on my website at drjudyho.com. And you can just take it and find out what your underlying drivers for self-sabotage are as a first step.

I mean, thank you. Like this is so, so helpful. And I know so many people are going to be so happy with this episode. It's amazing. Oh, thank you so much, Allison. Thanks for the great dialogue and the awesome questions. I feel like so many of the examples that you gave,

people can relate to. too.