Call Her Daddy - I Got Caught Photoshopping

Episode Date: September 22, 2021

This week, Father Cooper addresses a recent Tik Tok that went viral after exposing her for photoshopping. Opening up a larger conversation Alex discusses the role insecurities and bullying from her childhood play in her current relationship to social media. Why is there such a pressure to edit photos? Does it really matter if everyone does it? Is she only saying this because she was caught? Will she continue to edit photos? Following this discussion, Father Cooper speaks with Dr. Jean Twenge who holds a PHD in psychology and is a personality and social psychologist. Dr. Twenge has authored multiple books, has over 140 scientific publications and her research focuses on generational differences and more recently the influence of social media. The pair continue the conversation surrounding the negative impacts of social media on one’s mental health. 

what is up daddy gang it is your founding father alex cooper with call her daddy i'm just adjusting my audio level so that everyone can hear me hello hello hello So, skanks, you read the fucking title. I got caught photoshopping. What? Yes, you heard that right. I did. I photoshopped not one, not two, but a many. And don't act so fucking surprised.

You probably have two. You use a filter on your Instagram. Oh, shame on fucking you I joke but it's not a joke because it's affected all of us the first time that I photoshopped a I guess I have to ask myself, when did I even know Photoshop was a thing? And I think sadly, I would have to say high school. And I'm saying sadly because, fuck, how young was I? Just like, fix yourself, Alex. That sucks for 14 year old anybody. This is going to sound backwards to people and we can get into it. But I, the first thing I ever photoshopped was to make my legs look bigger. I was always aware of what I was insecure about

with my body because of what guys would say about me. I remember I got bullied for how thin my legs were. I got called malnourished when I was younger. People told me I have an eating disorder. And specifically, I remember being like, oh, something's wrong with me. And so to dress down days, I was so excited for dress down days when I was younger because I got to wear sweatpants one dress down day. There were two guys. They were like, oh, my God, look like she doesn't even have a butt. And they were making fun of me. That moment where you are getting made fun of and you're internalizing every single word

that they're saying to you and that sticks with you literally for the rest of your life I can still I remember their names I remember what they were wearing that day I remember where I was standing and I literally remember oh my this is so embarrassing I remember when the guys were pointing that out about me I was standing there and then I pretended like someone had dropped something under the table and I literally went underneath the table and sat the fuck down on the floor and was like pretending I was trying to find something under the table. So I wasn't standing so they could literally be talking about my body. Because obviously at that age, I was looking for male approval. I wanted to look a way that would be attractive to a guy. So I remember taking photos on a Canon camera

with my friend and you had to upload them to the computer. You couldn't just like do it on your phone. I had a fucking flip phone at the time. I went into this thing and I would make my legs bigger. When you are called out for an insecurity, that is the worst fucking feeling because you know it. You already know it. And then for someone else to point it out, your mind goes to, okay, how can I change it or how can I hide it? And wouldn't it be nice if instead we could just be like, how can I be okay with this? So that was high school. Then college, it became habit and kind of a game. I would tweak photos still in an attempt to like curate my Instagram, wanting to come off as like the hottest, most

fuckable girl in Boston. And it worked, which is so sad because that essentially then reinforced the idea of editing for me. And then after college, I basically stopped except for like minor little touches that I wanted to adjust to make sure that my Instagram would look perfect. And even when I say I stopped, it literally like implies there's a problem, which I guess is why I'm starting this episode, opening this conversation, because recently I got, photoshopped body was trending and exposed on TikTok. Let me take you back. I'm in Las Vegas, Nevada for my birthday.

You all heard about my birthday. You got an episode about my birthday, but there is a part of the story that I never shared. That's the beauty of social media. You can choose to share the best parts. And a lot of times we choose to not show the embarrassing things or the things that we're insecure about. So let me bring you back to the moment where I photoshopped my body in a photo that I took on my birthday. It's a Saturday. I'm in Las Vegas and I'm going out with my family and my friends to a dinner. We had been day drinking all day. You guys remember we were at Marshmallow day drinking and then we went to a dinner and the dinner was at Carbone. And if you've never been to Carbone, it has the best fucking pasta. And if you know me at all, you know, I love some fucking good pasta.

So we show up to my birthday dinner. I'm with a big group of my family and friends and we are celebrating. We're having shots. We're having 10 different dishes of pasta and my friends are making speeches. My siblings are making speeches. I'm crying. And I look back on that night and that dinner and I would be like, hands down that dinner was like the best dinner of my life. Every single person at that table means so much to me. I trust them. Like it was just a very euphoric, amazing night. After that dinner, we were leaving to go to the club. And before we left, Lauren and I were like, oh my God, like we didn't get a

picture. And Lauren's like, we need a picture in these outfits. I also need a picture with you because it's your birthday. Let's take a picture. So I hand my phone to my boyfriend and he starts snapping away like I've taught him. And I'm at this point pretty fucking hammered. I take my phone from him and Lauren and I start walking to the car with the group and we're going through the photos. And I remember looking at myself in these photos. I was wearing this tan dress and feeling uncomfortable with my body. I didn't like how my body looked. That whole night, I felt so good and confident and happy. And then I saw those photos and I was upset. And so immediately Lauren's like, come on, let's post it. Let's post

it. And so I say, okay, hold on. I want to edit this photo. I have openly said in the past, I have absolutely edited photos before. I don't edit every single one, but I absolutely edit photos. Maybe just be weary of editing to the point where people don't recognize you when you walk in a room. So I usually edit on this thing called PicMonkey, AKA what I used to edit on when I was in high school. It was originally called Picnic. Tell me you didn't, do you don't remember that? Picnic, P-I-C-N-I-K, I think. Iconic. Everyone used it. And then it got shut down and then it came back and reincarnated as PicMonkey. So that's what I've stayed with literally since middle school. It's been my go-to sauce. And I've never used Facetune because it's just, I think it's a little too not accurate. Like how am I supposed to do this with my fat

fucking finger? Well, I always had the right inkling about that fucking app because I got fucking caught. So I download Facetune. I see the button where it's like realign or something. I rearrange my organs. So it gives me that like hourglass shape. And I upload the photo. I was in the car. We're on our way to the club while I was doing this. And everyone's having a great fucking time. And I'm sure also everyone's seen a friend or someone do that. They're literally over there staring at a picture and everyone else is what living in the moment, which makes me sad to think about. But also because if you think about like if I would send that picture to my mother,

I would not edit it. But I'm editing it because what I'm uploading it to my Instagram, which is a perfect version of your life, aka like a Photoshop perfect version of your life, aka like a photoshopped version of your life. Also, if you see photos from that night, that was like the Kygo Logan Paul night that I talked about. I'm wearing a different outfit. I ended up feeling so insecure in those photos that I went back up to my hotel room and I changed into like pants and a matching top set because I was like maybe this will look fucking better whatever we get back from Vegas and Lauren goes to do like a photo dump on her Instagram so she's posting a bunch of photos from Vegas she uploads the photo of us

outside of Carbone my birthday dinner but she uploads the unedited one. The next morning, I'm laying in my boyfriend's bed. I go onto Instagram and I open my DMs and there's a DM from a girl. Go fuck yourself. You should kill yourself. You are the biggest fucking poser. You say you don't edit your photos. You've been exposed. You fucking cunt. And she proceeds to send me a link to a TikTok. It's weird because if this had happened to me maybe like a year ago, my heart would have dropped. I feel like I've gotten very accustomed to problematic things coming into my DMs on the internet and the casual like go kill yourself like you're a fucking cunt. That's like hi, sweetie.

Good morning to me at this point. So I click on the link and it brings me to TikTok. Immediately I know what it is because I see it and I just press pause because I don't want to watch the video. And what I see is a split screen of the edited and the non-edited version of the photo that I took in Vegas on my birthday. And then there's a girl, you know how they do that on TikTok. Like there's a girl with like her head at the bottom of the screen, like doing a narration and commenting on.

I realize I'm also drawing more fucking attention to it, but I don't really give a fuck anymore. In that moment when I paused the video, I then quickly got out of it and I went to just like my TikTok page. And then I went to my mentions. And almost every single mention was someone tagging me in this video. Oh, you're so fake. Are you going to comment back? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. To this day, I have not watched the video. I know what the video is going to be. I could make the video myself. Maybe I should. Alex Cooper from Call Her Daddy caught photoshopping.

She has claimed in the past that like she doesn't photoshop, which isn't true. I've literally been so open saying like I absolutely have adjusted my photos. And I know what the comments are going to be fake and a bad person and that I should kill myself and die. And so I chose in that moment to not watch the video. And that was one thing I was working on in therapy was like, why indulge myself in reading comments that are just going to be negative about myself? So I didn't watch the video and I just X out of TikTok. And so that was, let me literally pull up my calendar. August 21st was my birthday. One, two, three, four. So it's now been about four weeks ever since I closed the app after I didn't watch it. I have not opened the TikTok

app since that video came out. If this had happened to me literally a year ago, I would have been embarrassed. Did you see that fucking podcast Alex put out? She apparently like photoshopped her photo. This is not a new concept. When the Kardashians get caught for a photoshop fail. Wow, like you sick fucks. You already knew they were photoshopping. You're mad that they didn't photoshop well enough. Do you know how many fucking poor social media interns have been fired on the Kardashian payroll because of you guys being like, Photoshop fail. You can see the bush and it's fully not that fat of a bush, but it's fully spun over and like the limb is like caught up in her asshole like

sorry I don't know where I was going with the bush I think the glass is a better example why does that glass tilt and defy gravity like what is that um I also have posted photos that are not edited but no one believes photos aren't edited anymore. So then I think people probably go to this place of like, if no one's going to even believe me, if I say this photo wasn't edited, then why not just edit it a little bit to make it even better? And I think when you really like get down to it, it's not like it's any of our fault. It's literally the app is designed to do this. The app is designed. We're given filters. We're literally told like you don't look good enough. Put this filter on your face. And then when you open your front camera and you see like your skin or whatever, and there's an option to glaze it over, you're like, yeah. And you know

what? Also, I'm thinking people may be like, oh my God, you're just admitting this because you got caught. Yeah. Yeah. But also, no, but yes. I think in a way, it's almost like an intervention. I think when this was brought to my attention by millions of people, the word isn't embarrassed because I feel like I've, listen, I've had some of the ugliest photos put of me out on the internet. And that's, I guess, just the world we live in today where people are ravenous. Is that a word? Ravenous to find flaws and dig deep into people's past to exploit them and make them feel like shit about themselves because, oh, Alex, you think you're so pretty. Oh, you posted that selfie. Look what you used to look like in middle school. Did you get a nose job?

Did you get your tits done? It's not really about about how I feel like I can tell you I'm like oh that was shitty like oh but like whatever I felt in that moment of course I was like what the fuck I didn't watch the video of course it hurts that people are taking photos of me and trying to explain because it's like well what's the point of that you know and and I get it the point of that is to exploit hey you think this person is perfect they're not you think this is what Alex's body looks like it's not and I feel like I agree it's not I actually was asking a friend this the other day have you ever photoshopped and she is like the chillest girl her Instagram Her Instagram doesn't look overly curated. And she said, yeah. And I would never tell any of my friends.

I would never admit because they don't think I'm that kind of girl. Like I have the Instagram that you would think I definitely don't Photoshop. And there's been moments where like the side of my arm, it's pressed up against my side. And so it's like protruding out a little too much and my arm kind of looks fat. And so I like cinch it in a little bit and like I make little edits, but I would never admit it to anyone because no one would expect it. Everyone listening to this, whether you Photoshop or not, I'm now thinking, okay, why do I do this? And it's because I'm not comfortable putting my body on the

internet for fear that it doesn't hold up to a standard that we created on the internet. That's fake. It's literally fake. So when we are scrolling for hours, zooming in, screenshotting, saving images of photoshopped women or models, odds are we're going to have some fucking issues, which is proven that we do. Last week, the Wall Street Journal exposed Facebook. Facebook did an internal research study a few years ago that they tried to keep from everyone. They had information, proven data that Instagram negatively affects teenage girls' mental health. Did you just hear what I said? Instagram literally knows that they're fucking up these teenage girls' mental health and they're trying to hide it from us. And sadly, as I say that, I'm like, yes, they know it, but don't we also know it? And do we care?

Does Instagram make me feel better about myself? No. I think we all know that. We didn't need Facebook to tell us. I don't know. I guess it's up to us to self-regulate and I'm trying. I posted a Instagram photo. It was my last one from fashion week and I didn't allow comments on the photo. I, for my own mental health, decided like, why am I focusing on likes? Focus on like, you like this picture of yourself, Alex, like post it. And so I took away that you can't see the likes. It's not for you guys. It's for me. I didn't edit any of those photos. And then the last photo I posted, I just didn't enable anyone to comment. And people were asking me like, why did you take off the comment feature? And I'm listening. I'm sure Daddy Gang is going to be in there fucking hyping me the fuck up. I love you guys when you're like, yes, queen, you look amazing. Like the point I was kind of more so making for myself was like,

I'm posting this for me. I like this photo. This is my page and I don't need anyone's opinion on it. And then also, if you guys want to go to my Instagram, there's a photo of me. My hands are up on a mirror and I'm in like a white outfit with a skirt on. And in the second slide, this is a raw photo from the photographer's computer that they sent me asking me if I liked some of these photos and some people started DMing me telling me wow you're fucking disgusting it's so obvious that you edited your legs in this photo this photo is not edited I'm zooming in and I know exactly what they're talking about my leg is pressed up against my other leg and there's a part of my leg that's pressed up against my other leg that bulges out more and people think it's edited and they're like, you're disgusting. I actually think my legs look pretty

nice in that photo, which is hard for me to say. And I didn't edit that. So that's an example of a photo that wasn't edited, but people are saying is edited this is exhausting I took off the likes for my mental health and then I took off the comments so no one could give me their opinion and blah blah blah and then I'm getting a girl telling me I should fucking kill myself because I edited a photo even though every single other person does that and god forbid had I been more savvy with it and made sure Lauren didn't post the unedited, you would never have known. And then I wouldn't have been told to kill myself. Everything that we are all trying to achieve when we are adjusting or when we're putting on the filter

or when I'm cinching in my waist is based off of something that has been put in our minds as a goal to look like, even though it's fake. It's literally fake. It's not attainable. Unless you literally are going to get surgery to make your waist look smaller. And then even still after the Kardashians are doing that, then they're still even editing it even further. Like it's not real. And even if you do get that perfect photo and that perfect body, you're still not going to feel any different. Like it's never going to be, it feels like enough. I don't have an answer. This is just something behind the scenes that

like, I love how like I shared the Vegas episode and I was like the best fucking time partying. This was also something I was dealing with that I wasn't going to talk about, but here we fucking are. I feel a responsibility. Like I really really do I definitely feel like in the past few months it's been hitting me more like although podcasting is a weird fucking thing we're like I can't see any of you knowing that millions of people are listening to this right now I don't know I guess maybe like this is hard for me and I'm I guess I'm gonna say it and I think moving forward for me and then maybe hopefully others will follow suit I am never going to edit a photo on my Instagram again. Also, I'm realizing it literally took me like a minute to say that

because it gives me anxiety. What if I have a pimple? What if that angle isn't good, but I want to, and the thing is, I'm sure also people can relate to this. I have so many photos in my camera roll that like, I remember in the moment wanting to post, but being like, Oh, but being like oh I gotta like I gotta edit that a little bit like that's not perfect like I'm gonna have to go and then I never end up posting it and I also will say I've definitely had more anxiety over posting lately oh like I don't want to post this photo because I don't know if it's perfect I just feel like people that are like in the comment section,

just tearing people down. It's like, that's exhausting too. And I know where you're coming from. You're upset. You're angry. Like you're mad about something in your life and you want to tear others down. And if that's the goal, I'll, I'm here to tell you it's working. It worked. Like you think you want to be mean to someone on the internet but now if I'm telling you like yeah it really hurts me when you do that then where do we go from there are you like happy and you're running to your parents being like the girl that I've been bullying online it worked she really felt it like next time if you're someone that does troll people on the internet or you're in the TikTok comment section going after whoever,

think about that. What's the end goal? I will be honest again. Here we go. During fashion week, the person that did my makeup asked if they could take a photo of me. And then also the person that was doing my hair, I was doing this long braid. like slicked it back we put a shit ton extensions in this braid and it was like a cool fashion week moment I wouldn't wear this on a date let's say but like in that moment it was fashion week and I felt good so we take photos and everyone in the room is hyping me up they're like holy shit Alex this looks great and they had known I was super insecure about the concept of slicking my hair back in a ponytail. Do I look bald in the photos?

Like that's all I care about. So I post the photo on my Instagram of me with the slicked back braid and winged eyeliner, which I usually never do because, again, I get a little insecure about having too much eye makeup. I don't know. It's a whole thing. And so I post it and I read the comments. Most of them so positive. Thank you, Daddy Gang. But they're definitely a little theme of people that are saying, you look so different in this photo. You look like a man in this photo. And the sad thing is the point was to look different. I wanted to look different.

I ended up telling everyone the next day while I was in my suite, in my hotel room with people, I was like, yeah, like, I think I'm going to delete the photo because I was seeing people say like, I look like a man. The people in the room were like, Alex, you look great in that photo. And then I ended up archiving it because I was just like, maybe they're right. That hurt. That makes me mad at myself. I started to like rationalize with them. I'm like, oh, maybe they are right. Like maybe my bone structure looks like a little too this and like maybe the slick back hair made my features look like this. And I literally just archivedived the photo which makes me really annoyed with myself I'm literally considering scratching this entire episode

right now because then another thought comes to me of like oh my god are people gonna be like you are supposed to be this like confident person like where's that Alex call her daddy girl like this is embarrassing. I don't know. It just, it sucks to think that I deleted a photo because people on the internet were calling me a man. Aren't we like moving past gender construct anyway? Come on, fuck off. Listen, I'll say I remember the last day that I looked at reddit I remember it I remember

I had a therapy session and I was like imagine knowing that hundreds of people are talking about you I think any human would be like okay I'm gonna go read it. Like, what are they saying? After months and months of going on and it being like, Alex isn't pretty anymore. Alex definitely doesn't eat that much. She must be lying. She must be purging. She must be bulimic. There's no way she can eat that and look like that. Fake nose, fake tits. Alex looks really skinny lately. Like what's going on? Like, oh my gosh, kind of like sickly skinny like not attractive skinny or the show sex blah blah blah blah blah and I'm sure people have this mean girls or whoever or the family members that tear you down and for a point in my life it was the reddit and I remember for a while I had to I

turned to convincing myself these people are also miserable like Like they're upset. They're not feeling good. And they wake up every morning and they, they look forward to shitting on me because it deflects from whatever they're feeling. And I used to do it in a more nasty way of like, God, they're so fucking pathetic. Like they make me so much fucking money. And every view is like, doesn't matter if it's a like view, a hate view. That was my, what kept me going for a little bit. Then I think I turned the corner one day where it was like, wait, like they need that. That's someone that's suffering and they're hurting and whatever they can figure that. But for me, it's like, why am I even looking? I can turn it off. And so can you, if you're listening and you're affected by the comment section, press don't allow comments. I realized I'm in control.

If I don't go on and read it, it doesn't exist. And so I stopped reading it and I deleted the app. I feel a sense of relief. And I think that weight lifted off of not giving it that power anymore. And like being present with like my boyfriend and my friends and my family and being like, this is what matters. And that's, I think, why I took the step of turning off the comments on my last post. Because I was like, it won't allow me

to indulge and read any mean comments. Like I love this, these photos, I'm posting them. And that, it was such a liberating feeling because like I love now that those photos and I didn't have any negative feeling towards them. Now I'm just left with looking at it and being like, that was great. I am on Instagram way less in the past two weeks than I have been in the past few years. No likes, no comments. There's less to do. So I just, I don't know. Like I, I wonder if I urge Daddy Gang, like if you're feeling insecure or you're nervous to post a photo, maybe also turn off the comment section and the likes and post for you and be like, I look so fucking great. And don't let anyone else have an opinion. Like think about

how powerful that is. Likes off, comments off. This is me and no one else has anything to say about it. It's my page. If you don't like it, get the fuck off. Probably not something I should say, but I'm going to say it. I remember having a conversation with my brother. He's quite wise. And I remember him saying to me, if you do not make money from social media, why are you on it? If you do not make money on the internet, I would urge you to look at that as a

positive that you can reel it back. People that are making money, it's a dark fucking place where you get addicted. You should be doing more. I haven't posted a lot. If you're not making money, honestly, daddy gang, choose your fucking mental health. You just keep scrolling. Nothing's happening. Your bank account's not changing. If anything, go put that towards something that actually matters. If you guys saw the social dilemma on Netflix, they say, if you are not paying for the product, which is TikTok, Instagram, Snapchat, none of us pay for it, right? It's great. It's free. No, it's not. If you're not paying for the product, you are the product. Your attention, your engagement, your eyes, your scrolls, that's what they're looking for.

I feel recently like I'm going to almost act like I'm not making money from the internet. Like I'm kind of choosing now to, it's not, I don't think it helps my Instagram it probably actually hurts it that I'm turning off the comments because it's less shared and etc I don't really fucking care anymore my mental health comes before my Instagram I also know if you don't make money off of social media like why do you have it I get it you're looking to connect you want to stay up to date with what your friends in Chicago are fucking doing while you're abroad. Like I get that. I would just urge you guys to like really focus a little bit more on like how much time you're spending on it and how much is it affecting how you feel about yourself. Listen, like a lot of conversations I and we have been having on this podcast lately.

This is just the beginning. I'm just opening up the conversation. A year ago, you couldn't have fucking paid me to be this open and this honest and this vulnerable. It's really something that like I'm like cringing as I'm saying this because I know there will be some people that are like, you really lost your umph. I'm not going to let anyone take away from what I just put together because it's the truth. And I know based off of evidence and research that this is also not just affecting me. If anything, every single person

listening can probably relate to something that I just said today. So no, you're not alone. And you know what? This is fully a learning process for me. Like when I look back, like me editing my photos in high school to make my legs look bigger, that wasn't affecting anyone but myself. Now, if I edit my legs to look bigger, that is going to affect someone because a young girl is going to be on my Instagram and thinking that's what my legs actually look like or my face or my nose or my lips, whatever it is that I'm editing. So I think the conclusion for me at this moment is I now feel a responsibility not to photoshop hello daddies i as i've been doing the past few episodes i was reflecting um especially after the recent research study that was released explaining the negative impacts of instagram on young girls

mental health if you guys didn't read that article from the Wall Street Journal, I highly recommend you guys go read that. But I knew I wanted to keep this conversation going and hopefully take it even further than just my own personal experience. So I phoned an expert. I reached out to Dr. Jean Twenge, who holds a PhD in psychology and is a personality and social psychologist. Dr. Twenge has authored multiple books, has over 140 scientific publications, and her research focuses on generational differences. So like gen z versus millennials versus baby boomers and the influence and effects of social media on those different generations so daddy gang i hope you guys enjoy my mini interview with dr twangy i ask her some follow-up questions that I myself was left with after recording this episode. And I hope the conversation with her urges you guys to check in with yourself

and your own social media use and its impact on your mental health. Enjoy. I am doing an episode that was really not planned and it's going to be on social media. What is your background and like, why did you choose this area of expertise? Yeah, so I'm a personality and social psychologist. I've been doing research on generational differences since I was an undergrad. I mean, I started being interested in this when I was about 21 and started to see in the last 10 years, a really, really big increase in depression and anxiety, particularly among girls and particularly among young women and wanted to figure out why that might be the case. Puzzled over it for a really long time. Didn't seem to be the economic situation

in the country because it started around 2012. And that's when things started to finally get better in the economy after the recession. And then I realized, well, you know, that's when smartphones became popular. And social media existed before that. But it wasn't as mandatory. It wasn't as influential. It wasn't as contentious. There weren't as many trolls. It was more friends connecting with each other. And it's become an enormous influence, particularly in the lives of teen girls and young women. And that's why I wrote my book, iGen, on that topic. And I had three daughters myself. So that's another big piece of it. Oh my gosh. That's so helpful to know too. Cause you must be watching them as they're like scrolling.

And I feel like I wish, what if Instagram like disappeared from our phones at eight o'clock at night and then disappeared at noon. And if everyone knew that it was getting regulated, I actually think people would like that because it's like, we can't regulate ourselves at this point. Yeah. And, and it has to be everybody because that's the thing. Social media is social. We're all communicating with each other. Even if we say, okay, I'm going to take a break. Then our friends are like, wait, what's going on? You know, why didn't you like my post right away? Like you usually do. Are you mad at me? That's what happens with people all the time. Can I ask you like still in your, now in your position today and everything of all the research

you've done, what are some of the positives that have come from us all being connected on social media? Yeah. Yeah. And there, there are lots of positives for activism and for awareness and for news. It's amazing that we have given more people the power to speak. And that's fantastic. And it can often, you know, connect people, say LGBT kids who maybe don't have anybody at their school who's like them. They can connect with each other, friends who might be across the country to share pictures of their kids and their lives. I mean, there's a lot of positives to it, but most of those positives you can get from maybe using it an hour a day. But the problem is they're not designed for that. Instagram, for example, is designed to keep you coming back as much as possible for as often as possible to get obsessed with it, for your friends to get obsessed with it. It takes over your life in a way that becomes more negative and tends to kind of negate some

of those positives. I, after watching, it was like the social experiment on Netflix. Social dilemma. Social dilemma. Yes. And watching them describe the refresh button and how it's essentially a drug. It freaked me out so much. And then yet I was still doing it that day. What are the biggest downsides of these apps? Yeah, there's a number of issues. So one thing, if you are spending a ton of time on social media, like during your leisure time, so not for work, not for school, then you're probably not sleeping as much. You're probably not getting together with your friends face to face, probably not talking to your family as much, exercising, getting outside and enjoying nature. You know,

all of these things that we know from decades of research are good for human health and happiness. You may not be doing them as much. So that's one. Another is body image, particularly for girls and young women. What you see on social media is often airbrushed and Photoshopped. Even if it's not, it's hard to fully process that someone might've taken 200 shots to get exactly the right selfie. It just gives this picture that's not realistic. And then that can lead to body image issues. Even if you know those things on an intellectual level, you still have that gut feeling of like,

I don't measure up, of that social comparison. That was the big news this week that Facebook knew from their internal data, from their own research, that Instagram had this negative effect on body image for one out of three teen girls. The Wall Street Journal, yes, published an investigation on Facebook's internal study. Can you describe essentially the findings of this article? Yeah. So it turns out Facebook, who owns Instagram, the company had heard about some of the

external research. So my research and many others, including many articles published in medical journals, showing that there was a link between the amount of time that people spend on social media and rates of depression. And those links are especially strong for teen girls. So there have been a couple of studies suggesting one of the reasons for that is because Instagram heightens issues with body image. So Facebook decided to do their own research and look into it. And they got a huge sample of teen girls and found out one out of three said using Instagram had a negative impact on their body image. They also found among those who had suicidal thoughts, 6% of them said that was due to social media. Now it seems seems like a small percentage, but when we're talking about teens having suicidal thoughts, any number is too high.

And it was interesting that that many traced it specifically to social media, not, oh, there was this conflict with my friends and social media maybe exacerbated it. No, they said it was because of spending time on social media. And they did this research two years ago and didn't release it. And these Wall Street Journal reporters managed to get a hold of it. It was leaked by someone. Allie create something that gets people to click and to become essentially obsessed with the product. Now it's like, we have this, that they've done their job and we've all become obsessed, but it's gotten to the point where I remember a moment of like my space and AOL and AIM. I always think about it. Like those days were the early honeymoon days of like, it was still such a new concept.

Everything was new. And we were kind of dipping our toes into the water, like a new thing, but then like got to go. And I wasn't obsessed. Instagram changed the game. And now it's kind of like, all right, the glamour has worn off. Why do we all feel shitty? And I think it's now because like I said, on my podcast, I was like, yes, we may be Photoshopping photos, but also Instagram is a huge Photoshop version of our life.

We're putting the best moments like, and even when people are trying to be a little bit more vulnerable, I feel when they're like, Ooh, breaking out this week, it's like a cute pimple. Like it's not like, you know, like someone that's going under Accutane and like the vulnerability is also still photoshopped in a way. In your ideal world, how could we begin to repair the damage that has should try to do is to make sure that young kids 12 and under are not on Instagram and other social media platforms. It's actually the law that you have to be 13 to have a social media account in your own name. It was passed in 1998, COPA, and it's just not enforced. That's a really kind of low hanging fruit. Let's enforce the existing policy that you have to be at least 13. I think 13 is probably still a little bit too young. 16 might be a little bit better, but let's start with what we have. And then beyond that, I think there has been in the last few years, I think we all are realizing we just need to be more mindful about how we use these platforms

because they can be used for good, but perhaps there does need to be more regulation to make sure people aren't on them all night. And for maybe groups of friends to just have these conversations of, you know, I'm going to take a break sometimes. And if I don't get back to you right away, I still love you. And I'm not mad at you. I think we have to not realize that we're in this alone. Like so many are struggling with this, but we have to realize that we're not the only ones who are struggling with this. We have to work together. I completely agree with that. It's like that feeling like you had mentioned earlier of like, if I turn it off, it's still going. What are some of the negative effects

photoshopping has on young, young people? Yeah. So there there's there's a number of studies out there that when people see i mean we've known this for a long time we've known back when the images were in magazines instead of on social media that when you see photoshopped and unrealistic faces and bodies it just gives people this kind of visceral feeling of not measuring up body image issues which are, of course, linked to eating disorders, depression, anxiety. It's not just, oh, I don't like my body. It's that it leads to all of these other mental health issues, particularly for girls and young women, but more and more for boys and young men as well, just comparing yourself to these

bodies that don't actually exist. That's the craziest part is like, we're holding ourselves and trying to get to a standard that's fake. It's literally not real. Like I even said, I know the Kardashians are a huge talking point because everyone's like, oh my God, the Kardashians Photoshop and they created this unrealistic body expectation. But I also think it's crazy when I see people get mad that they didn't Photoshop well enough. It just feels so backwards. Well, I mean, reality TV in general has really led to this kind of hyper focus on appearance and a certain type of appearance. And it's just kind of raised beauty standards in a way that can be really taxing on people. You know, then there's

all the other stuff on reality TV about all of the narcissism and drama that exists there too. Yeah, no, that's a good point. I definitely feel like that's just another version of social media, essentially of like, again, we have, we forget that there are producers specifically crafting the way they want it to be portrayed and people forget it's not actually reality like that's not reality at all um I was planning on making a statement that at the end of this episode that I'm going to release that I'm going to stop using photoshop and I think I've been very vocal in this episode about like, I have millions of listeners and I feel like making the statement may be somewhat helpful.

Like, I think it's very helpful for girls and young women to hear that message from role models that it's okay to be who you are and that that's okay. That's a great message. What would you say to these women listening that are struggling, whether it's regulating on the internet or also finding self-acceptance because they feel like they're not matching up to a standard that is being set on the internet that they look at for hours every single day. Yeah. Well, it's tough because what you see online is not always real and it's not realistic in so many different ways, but it's hard to really truly process that on an emotional level. So go ahead, you know, keep using social media for what it's good for, but try not to spend all of your leisure

time there and limit your exposure. That's also a good strategy. I do feel fortunate to connect with you because I feel like maybe people will start to feel like, Oh, like maybe this is a new trend. And that could be just a small catalyst towards like have an opportunity to make a change. But I, I really appreciate you coming on and also talking about the facts because it's, it helps back up. And I think people hearing you are going to be like, okay, I'm not crazy when I'm feeling down, like this is happening and like, let's make a change. So thank you so much.

Yeah, absolutely. I'm glad you're, I'm glad you're going to be a positive influence. I love to hear it. We're trying good luck to your daughters and you. Thank you so much. Thanks. Thank you, Dr. Twenge for coming on. The first thing after doing that interview that struck me and now listening back to it is this was two years ago. This research about how it's affecting young girls' mental health and the percentages and all of it, it was two years ago. TikTok didn't even exist. So if that was two years ago, one in three girls were being affected by social media,

two years after a pandemic, after everyone was so obsessed with their phones, after TikTok came about, after TikTok is now the largest platform that people also are known for trolling, TikTok didn't even exist. What are the numbers now? I also was really struck by how Dr. Twenge focused also on like, if you don't answer people, are you you mad at me if we can even just be more up front to mitigate the anxiety that comes with being MIA hey if I don't answer your text or hey if I don't answer your DM please don't take it personally like whenever I'm doing that it just means that I'm off my phone and it has nothing to do with our relationship I feel like I'm gonna get better at doing that with friends that was something I thought was a really good bit of advice. You shouldn't feel pressured to have to engage on your phone for fear that people are going to be mad at you.

Because again, the other thing I love that she said was everyone's feeling it. We had way over use of social media during the pandemic. We're all kind of feeling that burnout right now. And emphasis on the we're all feeling that burnout. Fucking shit. How many more times can I fucking open Instagram? Or how many times can it be 3am? And I've been scrolling on TikTok. And I can't fucking stop. And then I wake up exhausted for work the next day. What did I get out of those 45 minutes? What did I get out of that hour, that two hour, the three hours? It's 3am. I've been on this since midnight. What did I learn? What did I get from it? Usually nothing. We are the product. Like me scrolling till 3am, that's a win for TikTok. That's a win for Instagram. Fuck that. I recently just got offered to do an ad for Instagram on the podcast and I turned

it down, which again, a year ago, I would have been like, Instagram wants to do an advertisement with call her daddy. Whoa. I emailed back and was like, no, I'm actually releasing an episode this week telling all my listeners to scroll less. So that's just some of my fucking thoughts for this week, folks. You know what? Did I get a little thoughts for this week folks you know what did I get a little emotional yes and you know what I think it was fucking necessary can you tell that I didn't have therapy this week and that's okay because I got to take it out on all of you fuckers daddy gang you know the motherfucking drill I will see you fuckers next Wednesday.