Call Her Daddy - Jackson White: Toxicity and Tell Me Lies

Episode Date: February 18, 2026

Join Alex in the studio for an interview with Jackson White. Jackson talks all about his experience on Tell Me Lies, what it was like playing the most toxic man alive, and his reaction to the series finale. He also opens up about his relationship with Grace, his complicated childhood, and his sobriety. Enjoy! Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

What is up, Daddy, gang. It is your founding father, Alex Cooper, with Call Her Daddy. Jackson White, welcome to Call Her Daddy. Thank you. How are you doing? As if we haven't, like, asked that question like nine times before we started this. Yeah, yeah. We've been, like, hanging out for a second before we started recording.

Guys, um... Was I the most high maintenance? You're not high maintenance? No, no, no. I'm just dealing with a lot right now emotionally because I just watched the finale last night. Oh, that kind of. And so like I'm, I'm just trying to process like you as you. And all the girls came up and they're like, oh, he's like really charming and he's like really nice.

And then like watching Stephen last night. I know. And so it's like a little bit of a mind fuck to be sitting here with Stephen DeMarco being like, should I be scared? Like, what's the vibe? Do people come up to you on the street and call you Stephen or Jackson? All the time. It's mostly Stephen. How do you feel about it?

I'm excited for it to be not to get to the phase where it's your name. it's a great honor to be a great character, but I'm super stoked for my own name to be said. But now I'm Steve, yeah. Jackson represent. It's one day. But it's cool. I'm Stephen now.

I'm Stephen. When I think about Stephen, I feel like he's kind of the antithesis of the America sweetheart. You know, can you kind of just try to explain to us what it was like playing a literal sociopath. Like, how did you get into that character? Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, it started,

it started, as it always, just very simply, you just try and be truthful and enjoy the character and learn him. And then he turned into this, like, absolute garbage fire of a guy. But at the beginning, it was really fun. It was like, it was, like, why does he do what he does?

And it was a complicated guy in a complicated relationship and it was really fun. And then the writers just turned him into a, he's, you know, he's the worst. He's like one step behind like a serial killer. That's what I've heard. He's right there. He's baby serial killer. Yeah, he is.

I feel like it's funny to watch online. A lot of people have talked about how there are these like mannerisms and the posture and the way he walks and the hands in the pockets. Like, is that something that you also do in your normal life? Or did you create that for this character? So he would, uh, it's both like there's a, do you have good posture? Are you scared of me?

I'm not scared of you. I'm just, it's a rewiring of the brain. Yeah. Because I just binged it. Yeah. So I've been watching you. By the way, I do have bad posture. But it's not like I have, I'm, I'm a drummer.

Okay. And my whole life I was like this. And then so my back. Like the hunchback. Yeah. But I'm working on it. You know, you work on it. I didn't go to like theater school and learn the breath in the back.

I didn't do that. But I'm working on it. What about the eye contact thing? Did you work on that for Stephen? You kind of like don't blink. Oh, that's, yeah. There's, there's isms in there that, that they're fun. How do you prep for that?

Do you like look at yourself in the mirror and do, that? No, that'd be crazy. Or would it be like amazing? That'd be nuts. I don't. No, he's, he has a lot of things, half are mine, half are invented. I don't know.

It's kind of a combo of both. But he's very physical. Like he's definitely a different physical. He's a different walk. He has a different thing. He's very like calculating and still. And he moves. kind of like that.

Yes. Except when he's like angry and then he'll walk different. There's like a lot of stuff that I tried to like play with. We love him. He's a shark. He's a do we? I don't think so. No, I'm just trying to like,

make me feel better. It don't, it don't placate me. I'm just thinking like the, it's a lot. He's a, he's a, yeah,

it's hard to like that guy. I read that you, and I don't know if you still do this, but you used to watch every episode of Tell Me Lies like four times. You could go from like hating to then loving your performance. Did you do that for this season? Nope. Why? Because it's got, it's gone too far. Okay. I can't. I can't, I, I don't want to do that anymore. It hurts. It's very fun to, to study the tape. I like to learn from that. But then it becomes masochistic and you're like,

it just gets, it's not healthy. Did you watch season three? Uh, briefly. Briefly. Briefly. Yeah. I don't know what that mean. What is briefly? Like I'll do it's like, I, I watched it once. Okay. with a far lens with like a detached lens. You weren't like directing yourself. No. Like why did you do that? What did you do?

But it no, but it creates a, it's very emotional to watch a lot of yourself. It kind of sucks. Do you watch your own? Yeah, but I've been now doing this for a while. Like in the beginning days, it was harder. Yeah. But it's not fun. I think that happened with Stephen where I detached him unintentionally as it went on.

Yep. I think I tried to bring my. myself into him, but then as he became worse and worse, I was like, yeah, he's a character. I'll make him be a character. And then I could. Then you can play with it more and detach. I'm thinking about it being Wednesday. Everyone just found out that this was the series finale, not the season finale. And none of us had any idea that this was the end of Tell Me Lies.

How are you feeling? And how did you find out? Really recently, a few days ago, actually. And who told you? So Grace actually told me. And we were both in the airport. We were both in the airport in separate parts of the airport. We're in different terminals.

Different terminals. So far away. Two terminals away. It's a new love story. And I felt really, really sad initially. Even though I knew creatively, that's what was supposed to happen. That's what the intention always was. And it's a very perfect, we'll get into that.

We're going to get into it if it was a perfect ending. I do think it was. I think it's hilarious. But it was very sad. I was sad. And I, because it's like you're, you made a family. The cast was like a family. And then you, you also like lost a job.

You didn't, but it also feels like a little bit like that. And it's been four years putting yourself into something. So it was like mixed bag. So did you guys have like a conversation with your castmates? Like are you guys going to have like a going away party? Yeah. I mean, I wish. I hope because we're so close.

And everyone I think is emotional about it, even though I don't know. You just can't plan for these things. Okay, let's talk about the finale. Okay. I sat down. I had snacks. I was locked in. Yeah.

I was like, how are they going to wrap this thing up? Yeah. In this, there's so many questions. Like, what's going to happen with Pippa and Bree and Wrigley and you and why are you marrying Lydia and what that? Like, there's so many questions. And then she did manage to wrap the entire thing up in the finale. How did you feel about it when you were filming it and then when you got to watch it?

I laughed hysterically when I read it. We all did because it was like, oh, he wins. That's so funny. That's so cosmically funny. I am sorry. I think it's a big tragic comedy at the end. It's so fucking crazy. Yeah, I hope everyone laughs.

No, no, no. You don't understand. Did you, do you look online when people are talking about the series at all? No, no, no. Okay, the only way that it would be a justifiable ending, everyone was like, Stephen needs to die. Right. He needs to die. And then you like kind of won.

That's so good. That's so funny. Not even like strictly, oh, my character, like that's fucking hilarious. It's crazy. Like you have the guy who's the object of the torment or the, whatever, the aggressor. and then it's like very, it's not realistic because it's television, but it's a new thing. I've never seen that done before. Well, it's also really realistic of like this sometimes is how it fucking goes.

Yeah. Like probably not to that extent. No, hopefully not. Hopefully not. But it's kind of how it goes. Like a lot of, a lot of, a lot of bad people win. How did you feel filming the wedding scene? That whole blow up and then.

And you taking the mic at 3 a.m and being like one more fucking thing, ladies and gentlemen. It was cool. Well, it was 3 a.m. It was like 4 a.m. We were doing that all night. And I had the flu. I had like 103 feet. I had a fever.

I was like sweating and sore throat. And they like juiced me up and I went out there and just blacked out. I just, that was crazy. It's crazy that that happened on that day. Who do you think made out the? best in the show by the end. Does you want to say it together? One, two, three, Stephen.

Like, the. Motherfucker. I know. Because I was like, okay, technically Diana. You're like Diana. Oh, yeah, they got away. But on the Richter scale of like, who did the worst shit that then got out the best? Like, yeah, he got rejected now from Yale and they like got rid of him. But you got to do another one on Lucy at the very end.

That was a mind fuck the gas station moment. And I was like, literally go fuck yourself. I know. I know. It's twisted. And then you're the one holding the mic like literally like bang, bang, bang, bang, bang to every single person. He just ices everyone in the room. Smoked him.

I had fun. I don't know how I feel about it. Do you, are you like, yeah, like what, what is the response to something like that? I think that it weirdly, as I've had time to process it now, I'm finding that at first I couldn't. At first, I couldn't decide if I wanted it to end where you and Lucy just, like, left in the car together. You thought that, did you think that that's where it was going to end? I thought it was going to end there because I was like, oh, and he's going to fuck her over again. But then Megan made the decision, no, let me have you watch one more time, him fuck her over again.

That's the perfect ending to this show. Because why am I so fucked up that I low-key wanted you guys to end up together? Right. Right. That's the whole thing. You're disgusting. You murdered someone. I know. And that's the whole, that's the whole joke. Yeah.

And then it's a perfect ending. Like, this will never end. Okay. Can you indulge me for a second? Yeah. So I think, to your credit, you brought to life a character that millions of people are frustrated by. They hate. They've found some moments where they've, like, loved you or liked you.

And then they go back to hating you and be. disgusted. And now the character we're done with. But I thought today we could really finish it off strong. And you can get into character one last time. Get into character? Mm-hmm. Oh, shit. Get your posture ready. Darn it. Yeah, right. Just my shitty posture.

All right. You're going to get into character as Stephen. And you are going, I'm going to give you scenarios from my audience. And I want you to give advice as if you are Stephen. Stephen speaking. So Stephen, welcome to call our daddy. Okay. Oh, God. Look at him getting into character. Okay. Okay. So I'm going to come back and I'm going to answer your questions. Now I'm Stephen. Okay. All right. I'm Stephen. I'll answer to everyone. Hey, how you doing? Hi. Can you adjust the microphone to be closer to you? I think it's fine where it is. Sure. That will make you more comfortable. That'll make me really comfortable. Thanks. This is my show. Sure.

Okay. Stephen. someone wrote in and said, I went through my boyfriend's phone last night and saw he has an active dating profile. Should I tell him I know? What do I do, Stephen? No, hold that in. Hold that in for a long time.

Use it when you have to. You weaponize it. Wait until you're in a situation where he is in front of his parents and reveal it and put it on a flash drive, wait until you're making love, and at the moment of climax, reveal that you know about his dating profile. Okay, Stephen.

Sorry. Too far. This is great. No, this is great. Okay, next one. Okay. This is kind of really relatable to Stephen. Okay.

My boyfriend and I keep getting into massive arguments, but he never takes account. for his actions. How can we move forward if you will never own up to the things that he's done? Find the people around. He holds dear. Learn his secrets. It's constantly like hostage.

The same thing. Hold information. Put it on your computer. And then use it at a horrible time. I think that's what he does. Why do you think that he gave Lucy back the tape? Maybe he was exhausted. He was like, I don't want to do.

I'm bored. He's like, bitch, I'm going to Yale. Yeah, he's bored. Yeah, he's bored. Yeah, he's bored. He was like, you look pathetic. Yeah. I tortured you enough.

Yeah, he's done. Now I need to find another thing to torch you over. He was over. Okay, we're moving on. Let's talk about Grace. Okay, let's talk about Grace. Let's talk about my girl. That's easy for me.

Okay. That's, I can relax. Well, when Grace came on here, she talked to me about how she kind of has this thing for like, kind of crazy pajamas. And after she then sent me the video of her in the said crazy pajamas Which video? Which vid you get? You took the video and it's her. She kind of looks like she's in, it's like a...

This is the one with the black feathers. Oh, no, not that one. I didn't get that one. We didn't get that one. It was more of like a jester striped situation. Striped situation. And I was wondering, have you, like, did you wear anything? lucky last night to bed to prepare for this interview.

Did I wear anything lucky last night to bed? To prepare for this interview. More people would ask me that. I didn't wear anything lucky. Okay. I wore my normal bed wear. Okay. What do you wear?

Underwear. And like a, I like a tank top when I sleep. Okay. Just a little, like not the full t-shirt thing and not, or I'll rip it off and go. just underwear, just underwear. And I just want to clarify, like, I hope, I wasn't asking you, I wouldn't have asked unless her girlfriend told me, because I'm picturing Grace wearing her full jester outfit and

then you in normal. Yeah, she's in a, well, she wears the cap with the, with the bell, like Scrooge. Yep. She looks like screwed. With the elf feet. Yep, with the feet. And she's grumpy and she's sitting there with it over her breast. And then I'm in nothing.

And that's how we sleep. It works. I love that. It's great. Okay, so that you wore like a normal outfit to bed last night. I love that. These are the hard hitting facts that we need to just know on Call her Daddy. When I got to interview her a few months ago, loved her.

She's lovely. She told me about how you guys met and how you fell in love, but she said that you were giving off very, very serious actor energy on the initial video call where you guys met. How do you remember that going? Well, when you're nervous, you go into a mode course. So when you're on like a big, she had the job. I didn't have the job. So I was in like a mode. I was in like a hello, nice to meet you.

And we do a mode. It wasn't serious, but it was like. Trying to get the job. Yeah. And then I remember what happened. She always trips up on this. She had the job. I didn't have the job.

This is a very interesting conversation on Powell. And she said, do you need anything from me? which is a very like actory question not to throw back on her but that's very like do you need anything for me performance wise and then I think I said no you're doing great no you're doing great which if you don't know me I can sound very condescending sometimes but I do I mean it genuinely I can sound very like like good job right you're like horrible job you're like no really good job. You know what I mean when someone's like, hey, you're doing great. Right. And so I think I probably sounded like a dick, but I really meant it. She was like, can I do anything?

I'm like, no, you're great. Okay. So then you left that and did you feel any vibes? Romantic vibes? Yeah. No, we were pretty, we were we were walled up. We were walled up. She was, yeah, she, from the very initial time, we were both like in relationships. We were like, it was not like that. I think it was, it wasn't until. So everyone was open and we might do this job together. That's when we started, you know, talking more. What do you remember about the first time you started to have like, oh my God, wait, could I have romantic feelings for this person? When she texted me. What does she text you? Like, hey, like, what's up?

I was, I was in Canada for some reason. And she said, it was like, you know, hey, come to New York. She didn't say like, come to New York. But she was like, what are you doing? I'm doing this for the holiday. She was like, oh, I was like, I might come to New York. And she was like, something like cool and sexy where she was like, you should like you fucking should. Like with a fuck, you should fucking do it.

Something like that. And you guys were already filming tell me lies. No, no, no, no. I still hadn't had the job. It took me eight months to get this job. I had to convince so many people to let me do this job. It was very funny. Why do you think?

Because you're so good at the role. Well, thanks. No, no. I, I, um, they just had to comb the earth, I guess, to find this. It's a very complicated guy. And there was like a lot of dudes who did it in, whatever. Yeah. Whatever. Yeah. Yeah. And then she had the job. I didn't have the job. And then I went to New York. And we kind of like talked about all the reasons why we shouldn't do it because I don't have the job. Yeah. And then. Yeah. Okay. Wee. I remember though, you said that you were dying to make the first move. but didn't have the courage to go through with it. What was going on? What do you remember feeling in that moment? Just like ripping out of your chest kind of thing, you know, that thing.

And when she finally went in for the kiss. Maybe that's a power thing. Like I didn't want to, sorry to interrupt. No, this is good. I didn't want to make a move because I didn't have the, that's not really it. but I can totally be a people pleaser. I can totally think I'm overstepping. Maybe I wanted to not step on anyone's toes.

What do you mean? Hmm. Well, like, what if I didn't have the role and then I kissed her? And then she was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Now you're definitely not getting the role. You know what I mean? Right. Right. Like, what if I overstepped?

So she kind of had to make the first move. And she did. And that's not, these thoughts on going through my head, but I'm definitely. Right, we're reflecting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's interesting. You're probably like, subconsciously, I probably like, Tread lightly.

Yeah. You like her, but don't. Right, because it was a work dynamic also. Yeah. And that's how it first started. So it's like you kind of got a. She was my boss. She was your boss.

She was my daddy. Is she still your daddy? She was my, she's my daddy. Grace is my daddy. I love that for Grace so much, honestly. You're like, I can't believe I said that. Yeah, that's going to be on your thing. Just that.

That's the whole promo. Yeah. Grace is my daddy. I know. It's perfect. I know what you want. Yeah, just keep giving it. You're doing great.

Okay, is it true that you let Grace give you multiple tattoos early on in the relationship? Yes. How, like, what tattoos and how many? Um, one, two, three, four. Now, walk me through that thought process of like allowing someone really early on in dating to like fully tattoo your bod. Were you nervous? Like, what if it ends? Have you ever done that? Nope. Okay. I just, what if it ends? I'm like, nope. Yeah, you let someone fucking put a needle in your arm?

No. No. I don't think, you don't think about the, you don't think about that. I don't think about a lot of that. I'm very impulsive. But that was also hilarious. I liked it. I liked that, I like that.

Yeah, I don't know. You're on the adrenaline of the courtship phase plus like pain. And I was down. That was cool. How do you think that your guy's relationship has evolved over the course of the the course of the show. It's just got more adult. I don't know.

It's more like you don't think the ceiling's going to cave in. You know what I mean? You're not like, I don't know. You start with a lot of fear in any relationship. And then you kind of get comfortable. And I think we've just grown up. Would you say you start with a lot of fear in the beginning of relationships? Or maybe I do.

I was going to say, what do you mean by that? I think normal people don't as much. I'm in a lot of fear. Why? Because I just grew up in fear. I grew up in a lot of inconsistency. So I didn't know what was going on a lot of the time. And so I come at situations from a fearful place sometimes.

I'm getting better. It gets better and better over the last 10 years, but I absolutely go into things on the defense thinking that it's not going to work out. That's how I approach most things. That kind of relates to you. It said recently in an interview that it's higher stakes to stay together for me than to break up. It's definitely more work in higher stakes to be with somebody. Yeah.

it's it's way less pressure to to not more painful but you have to like you have to want to be with somebody very very hard right yes like do you would you say if when you look back at your past were you more comfortable and relaxed being single because you're on your own and you're dependent on yourself or do you like being kind of dependent in a relationship I think dependence wrong word. I think it's important to not be fully dependent. You can be dependent for certain things. Like I like to be dependent for things that she does better that I don't do. Like she's better at so many things. And it's nice to have a partner in that to do things that you don't do. But the, the dependent part gets tricky when you're like, stop seeing friends or what I mean? That's when you have to start.

And that's a discipline. That's an effort I find. Or maybe that's just where I come from. But it's a discipline for me to round out my life. Like it's a pie and everything has to be a piece. And I have to consciously go to those other pieces so that you don't put too much pressure on a relationship. Let's go back. Because you just mentioned like you going into a relationship, you're like it starts in fear and then it gets comfortable.

which I don't think is like a completely abnormal statement. Like I don't think that's not what people feel. I think maybe fear is like a pretty strong word to use. I think maybe some people are more like, oh, it's a little like you don't know what's going to happen. And it's like exciting, but it's a little like up in the air. And you're kind of like excited to see what's to come.

And then eventually you get comfortable. You're like, it's fucking terrifying. Yeah. Which obviously relates to your childhood growing up. Your parents got divorced when you were really young. Yeah. Your dad remarried three times, four times. Three, I think three.

How do you think watching your parents' different relationships ultimately impacted your perception of love and commitment? Child of divorce conversation. Like, are you? I'm not, but I have interviewed a lot of people that are. And I also kind of feel like everyone's got their shit. It's all fucked up. It's all fucking weird. It's so weird. It's all weird. And now it's on us to say, okay, cool. I unpacked it. I figured it out. Goodbye. That's not me. Yes. That's the new. That is the thing. Yes. Because we therapy now. It's all, it's like, it's, it's too much. Yes. Like figure yourself out and then let it go. Before you figured yourself out. Did you have any patterns that you now can look back and be like, oh, that's just because of like what I was raised seeing. that I thought was normal. Yeah, well, yeah. You, you, I think everyone is like inherently a little narcissistic when you're coming up.

That's just what it is. You're like, when you're a teenager, you're like, oh, my God, and then you go to college, that's what these characters all are. They're just self-involved. And, and you, you just, you start not making yourself the victim because you learn that that there are consequences or that no one's coming to the rescue. and that you can't just make it about yourself and you can't weaponize your your past and use that in your relationships with your friends because people won't stay anymore.

They won't stick. They don't want to hang out with you if you're if you're doing that. But it is so fucked up because it takes you as we all have done like repeatedly doing something, whether it's a pattern, whether it's like jealousy or abandonment wounds or being pulled back and kind of being like not emotionally available, whatever it is that you bring. And then slowly you get the note enough from partners that you've been with. You get the note.

But you're like, okay, I actually have to look at myself. Totally. And I need to address this. Or you don't take the note. And you're out here still just ripping. What do you think one of your notes has been? That's a great question. I mean, I'm, yeah, I got to ban him and stuff.

I don't know. I guess like I'm, I'm afraid of, I'm afraid. It's fear. It's all fear. So I'm like afraid of, I've been afraid of men a lot of the time. Like, I've been afraid of, like, male relationships I've had to work on because I just had a, I had a more complicated relationship with men than I did with women. I was, I was kind of raised with my mom, my sister. So, so I've had to work on on that in relationships. I can, it's what I was explaining you're supposed to do is like divide your time, I can totally not do that and put too much pressure on a relationship. That's the big note. Yeah. I mean, I think that's really relatable too, especially if you have that instability growing up and then you get to a point where like, oh my God,

I found love. I found my person. Like, I found this person that loves me and I love them. And then, of course, you don't want that to end because you're seeing real love and you have it right there and it's accessible. You're like, I don't want to lose this. And then, sometimes you hang on to something because you're like even though subconsciously you know it's not maybe perfect you're like but it's also someone that like loves you yes and so you're like should I just stay because it's something stable or should I go because I know it's not right and a lot of times with abandonment wounds you're like I'm just going to stay or you leave first so that they don't abandon you get the jump on it that's that's definitely real too how did you feel growing up about your stepmoms

because that's a lot so funny the stepmom conversation is so I didn't know him that well. I mean, my dad, my dad lived in Franklin in Tennessee. Okay. And my mom lived here. And I would spend the summers and whatnot with him or weeks of a time, whatever, breaks, I'd go out there because I loved it out there. And I would hang out with these new, these new mamas.

And they were cool, you know, shout out to Debra. you know, I didn't, I didn't know him that well, but I was like, Deborah. What's up, Debbie? Um, but I didn't, I don't know. I, I, I kind of like, I kind of, um, I was a kid. I think you have a, um, you have a gut reaction to somebody who's replacing your parent. Like, I think I gave her a hard time. I was like a child, but I think I like, you know, Deborah grabbed my arm too hard. But I think she was probably a, uh, uh, uh, uh,

a wonderful person. Yeah. And yet I was like very adverse to change. And same with my stepdad. My mom remarried. And like we've always had a two Rams lock and horns just because it goes against your biology. But, but it's, they're also filling a very difficult role.

I could not imagine marrying somebody with kids and just being like, these are from a complicated, fucked up place, but I'm going to take care of them. that's weird. Right. It's like when you get older, you then can have empathy for both dynamics because you're like now you're getting closer to the point where you can picture potentially being in more of like a fatherly role where when you were younger as a kid, you're like, oh my God, this person's going to replace my dad or replace my mom.

And now you're like, whoa, that was a lot to walk into. Doesn't mean they were perfect. I just had this conversation with my stepdad where I was like, it just crystallized recently of like, oh, dude, that must be so hard. I couldn't imagine. You had mentioned kind of like craving the stability of a family unit your entire life. When things feel shaky. Yeah.

Where do you find or where did you find that safety? In the wrong places and then in the right places, like you copy your parents. Like my dad was a my dad was a very complicated, amazing person. He was like, he was an incredible drummer. And music was my whole life. And my mom is an incredible singer. And we grew up playing so much music.

And I learned all about music. And I've been playing drums since I was a baby. And it's what I love to do. and I took all those things from him. I also took his like work ethic. Like he, he was a tour manager. He was a drummer.

He ran shit. He was a very disciplined guy. And I, I have so much of that. And I apply that to whatever I can. But then the flip side of that was, you know, he was on these big tours. And, you know, he'd get off these tours.

And the lights would be off. And it'd be quiet for months on. then and he came from an extremely hostile upbringing and he didn't have any tools to cope with it, not like we do in our time. And so, yeah, there's a lot of drinking and all that's under that umbrella. And I, you know, I drank a lot with him and, you know, just a lot of drinking and with dad. And so I totally like grew up with an interesting, with a skewed perspective on all that. And, you know, if I wasn't careful, I would let that run my life, especially when you start doing that when you're young. And when you have your parent being there with you when you're kind of doing that and it's almost like a bonding thing?

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Because you're young and he's back off the road and you're like, oh my God, let's sit and let's drink and let's talk. That was it. And that's kind of... But you're like a 12 year old kid. Right. So that's where it gets tricky. And did you ever feel like, because it seems like you weren't always with him, it was like you would like visit and then you would leave.

Like, did you feel like you really got to know him enough or do you like wish that you could have spent more time with him? Yeah. Totally. I wish I spent more time with him. This is what it is though. We didn't talk for a long, long periods. of time just because whatever life but um but but i got to i got to be with them for for the important times um but you have like an idea of your parent maybe it's like girls and their mothers or

boys and their fathers but you you they're like superheroes and then you get to the age where you're like oh if that's superman we're we're fucked you know what i mean like oh no and that happened that switch happened in the midst of all that chaos and and and and it took me you know made us stripped apart and then and then we came together when we were both adults yeah um I know your dad passed away a little bit ago I'm so sorry no yeah thank um how do you think your perspective also has kind of changed on like your parents dynamic and what they were able to provide for you you together, even though they were separated as time has evolved. Like, do you hold resentment?

Do you understand what they did? Yeah, I do. Not anymore. I had resentment for a long time. Going back to that, like, that's what you weaponize. You weaponize resentment. You're like, oh, this person fucked me up, so I'm going to fuck you up. Hurt people, hurt people.

But not anymore. It's all love. Yeah, it's all good now. I took a lot. I took a lot from my mom. And a lot from my dad. Let's talk about your mom. Yeah.

Because obviously you got to work with her on Tell Me Lies, which I remember I was a fan of her from Sons of Anarchy. I fucking loved that show. Great show. How old were you when that was being made? Like fifth grade, sixth grade. I was young. Yeah.

And your stepdad and your mom were both working on that show. Interesting. So maybe I saw that happen. You know, yeah. Parents working together was a thing, you know. Interesting. Did you ever watch the show? I've seen parts of it yet.

Okay. Was that a good or bad time in your life? It was great. That's an interesting question. No, it was great. I mean, it was cool. Like, that's, that was the big family discussion for many years was that show. Yeah.

It's like if Grace and I had a kid. Right. They would be a, they would know, tell me lies intimately, even if they had seen it. You know, I know everything about that show. When she decided to come on, because you. had the role first. Yeah. What was your reaction to like, did you want it to kind of be your own thing and not have

your mom be involved at all? Was there like a- Totally. There's a little kid thing where you're like, no, it's mine. Right. But then I thought, oh, yeah, it's fine. No, it's great. I thought it was really full circle. And I thought she was, I thought Megan was kidding when she said, they didn't want to ask

her. I thought, I was like, oh, that would be hilarious. And then they did. And then it worked out. It worked out. Okay. Your mom plays your mom. Yeah.

Your girlfriend plays your girlfriend on the show. how, and I'm sure you've been asked this before, but like, I need to ask you it myself. Like, how did you navigate not letting those two worlds of your reality to then the show get blurred together? You want to not let it blend, but I think it does. Just because I'm, like, I didn't sign on to this. I don't do this job because I'm all there, like all together, you know? Like, I, I, I, I. I like that.

You know, you come, you do make believe for your job. You're probably a little fucked up, probably. And so you take on a little bit of everything. And it was hard. It was hard to, hard to not let the lines blur. Yeah. I do want to go back to something that you were talking about earlier in regard to your relationship to your father growing up.

you mentioned how alcohol was and became a big part of your life with him and your relationship. Do you mind talking a little bit more about how that influenced and impacted you? Yeah, I think we all have coping mechanisms for how difficult all of this is. and it's different for every person. Mine was thankfully more clear cut. Like I know a lot of the things that hold me, but there's so many things that hold me back all the time. But it's so fast the things that can fucking hold you back, right?

Like it's it can be substance. It can be like people. behaviors, food, whatever. Everyone's got their thing. Everyone's got a thing. And I think focusing on what that is

and discovering what that is is is what makes you progress. Like as a person in your career and your relationships, like that's what makes you grow. For you, when you look back, like you talk about fear. And I can imagine, I think, when we have fear or we have anxieties, we can try to do things

to avoid that. Like how did you find yourself leaning into unhealthy coping mechanisms to like avoid your pain or your fear? Well, fear, yeah, fear is like the core. Fear and then and then anger is like a symptom and like, you know, drinking can be a symptom and behaviors or symptom. So like it's, but it starts with that like, I'm not enough. I won't be enough.

People are better than me. I'll be left. I'll be alone. I'm not good enough to be here or to be with this person. That's, those thoughts are like, those, those thoughts start everything. And then everything else is like a,

I don't know. Then you just start reacting. How do you think you got to a place where numbing those feelings, you eventually were like, wait, that's actually more unhealthy? Like by me doing... I just got tired. I get tired of running on that. It's like you don't... It's exhausting to be unconscious. You don't even know it's exhausting. And thankfully, I had a parent who got, like, my mom got her shit together. She did.

She got her shit together a long time ago. And I got to see that you can get your shit together. So I had a really great example in my mom. And I want a lot of things. Like, I just want a lot of things in this life. I want a lot of family things, a lot of career things. And if something's stopping you from getting those, I don't, you don't even mean it's that simple. If there's, if you're being stopped from getting those things and you're seeing signs that you're not getting those things, if you're missing your audition, if you're like, if you're, if you're, if you're shitty on the phone, if you're reacting poorly.

Um, it's just like, you just got to focus on it. You got to have that self knowledge though. And sorry. And like you have to. consequences are what start pushing that into action. And if you don't have consequences, it's sometimes you can go on and on and on and on. That's what I was going to ask you, like, when you were going through maybe one of the darker times in your life and struggling and going through all these feelings of like, am I good enough? Am I not? And then leaning into unhealthy patterns because that would kind of numb the pain. Yeah. What were examples where you kind of have? had to face reality, whether it was people confronting you.

Maybe you lost relationships. Yeah, you, you, it's both. It's, it's, um, uh, you're subconsciously ruining everything. You just break shit. Um, right? Yeah. Yeah. Well, and it's hard too because like, depending on where you're at in your life,

like, I feel like for. social reasons. Like it's so fucking confusing. Even if you're talking about like drinking, like it's so confusing because it's such a social thing. Oh yeah. And so it's like the fear of like, am I not going to be fun anymore if I stop? Am I not going to be this anymore? And it's like there's so much that we tell ourselves if we want to try to get better.

You almost go to the negatives first before like we know this is going to actually make your life a lot healthier and happier. But it's so ingrained in culture that it's really hard to be like, can I stop this? Should I? Going on a date, like, if you've drank on every date and then you go on a date and you're not drinking, like you feel like a alien. And you feel like, oh, my God, all my stuff is coming out and I'm not prepared for this. And this is also, side note, these things don't go away when you take a behavior. out of your life. The hole, the God-sized hole, is fucking there no matter what.

For most people, I mean, for all people, for all people, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a thing that we're trying to fill with people and places and things and money. A good point. We just are. It doesn't go anywhere. You just have to take out the thing that makes it destructive. Which is really fucking hard. Which is fucking hard.

And it's just subsist. substituting vices, right? It's not like there's one good one and one bad one. It's just what's working for you. If you're taking it out in your relationship, you're going to hurt somebody. If you're taking it out with substances, you're going to hurt yourself. For you, once you were able to be like, okay, I am going to try to move forward in life and like give myself a healthier lifestyle, let's say. What were some of the? positives and negatives that you saw once you got that clarity of like, I need to shift my life. I need to change my actions to my own body and to myself.

Everything. Everything changed. Like I want to say that there were external things that changed dramatically, but there weren't. But there were. Well, there were. I mean, you get, if you're clear, you can, you're just better. prepared for life and you can succeed and blah blah blah but also you just it's here you just feel less like you're in trouble all the time or you're gonna you just you have that ease and that's what

we all want is that ease i just want to feel okay yeah yeah you want to see your shit come out stop drinking yeah you'll get to the real shit stop drinking you'll feel great and then and then and then that deep in the core shit comes out and it's like oh yeah that was there i was just covering it up with with whatever how are you doing with the fears and the anxieties and all of that i'm doing good it's been a good um a long educational road uh and and i feel i feel great um my life has changed and I have a lot of love a lot of love in my life and and I I care about people. That's the big thing. I genuinely give a shit about like how some someone else is doing, which I didn't have

when I was like younger and running on fucking Doritos and fear. Like I, you know, and that's the. That's the best thing to come out of it is like, because all I want, all I want is to be like a, like a worker among workers. Like just fucking just, I want the life to be like calm and serene. And I think sometimes when people talk about a darkness in their life, the beauty of it is it also brings such a light because it's like it really forces you to go through a lot of fucking shit. But then you've been through a lot of fucking shit. I had to because if I didn't then my shit would run the I wouldn't be working I wouldn't be around people I had to that's that's what I'm learning you can actually just face the fear it's amazing okay before we go I want to end with like a couple rapid fire okay what's the time you absolutely bombed an audition all of them so many of them I've got like 150 of them okay other than you which tell me lie's character is this the most insufferable.

Evan? That sounds like something Stephen would say. Well, I love. No, no. But I just mean like factually based on the plot. And also him with Bree's mom and getting the mom drunk before seeing Bree. Right. I think he fuck shit up again.

I think he's actually. Evan like bad news. Yeah, he is bad news. Oh wait. Inseparable. The teacher. Oliver. Disgusting.

Bad boy. What is the pettiest thing you've ever done after a breakup? I disintegrated my Instagram. What is that even? You disintegrated your Instagram? Like I didn't just like delete, but it was like delete, delete forever, destroy. And I was like, yes, delete forever. Type in password, gone forever.

To yours, not her. To mine. And you just disappeared. I just ghosted because I was like, I don't want to deal with seeing anything. I didn't want to deal with. I just so I did you ask destructive what's the pettiest thing oh petty oh that's not really petty that was more just like insane but I had some good momentum going too and this is this was a long time ago and I just poof I had to start over um okay what is the best gift you've ever gotten for grace

oh I got her uh I got her little cartier last year oh ring bracelet necklace got a little cartier ring cute but I got I didn't know it was the wedding ring you got her the wedding ring one I didn't know she's like you're proposing I yeah it was so funny I was like I didn't know that this was oh like the wedding I didn't know oh Jackson did she know yeah and she's like no it's a sick ring though you don't have to wear it as a wedding we just like have it on other other fingers okay that's cute um what do you think your two top love languages are. The ones that I need are the ones that I give. Both. Give me both. I love that you know that as a man also. Good job. Well, I give acts of service. Okay. Huge time, big time. That's like

how I show love. I'll do this for you. I'll do this for you. And then I want to receive words affirmation. I want to tell me how great I am. How great I am. I tell you, tell me you like me still. Do you remember the first big purchase you splurged on with your tell me lies paycheck? I bought it. I bought a car. Oh. I didn't buy a, yeah, I bought a, I bought it. I needed a new car and I bought a new car.

What kind of car? I bought a Dodge Durango. That makes a lot of sense. With the hemmy. Very loud car. You're obnoxious. I'm obnoxious. Wait, so you're the one driving that I'm like, oh my God.

No, but I'm not the guy who's like, but can you explain why to the sound? Like, what do we need that for? Power. No, no, I just love it. My dad was, my men are so stupid. My dad was such a car guy. Okay. And I remember I showed him that I went to all these dealerships with my dad.

And we picked that one. Cute. Yeah. Okay. It's a great loud car. I'm surprised you didn't hear it pulling your parking lot back there. Because I would have roasted you at the very top of this show. I know.

I know. Yes, we're finally, sadly done with Tell Me Lies. but where are we going to see you next? Like, do you have projects that you're working on? Do you have things that you're going to be doing? Yes, yes. I know you can't tell me, but like you're going to be acting, obviously. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. Have you filmed other things? I did film something else. Okay. I filmed something after the last season. And was that character so different than Stephen? Opposite.

How did you feel about that? it was awesome electric it was electric it was everything levity yeah it was super fun okay it was like very like like natural like bring yourself to it like like true it was very like truthful and natural type of acting which was very cool so it was like you could do that everywhere but tell me lies it was very like a lot of precision and and we're telling this story and it was like a very It was a very different, like artistic, very, like different thing. Amazing.

And it was great. It was, you know. I think that's needed. I saw Grace on a red carpet being like, I think I need to play some like lighter roles. Like from like Lucy and Amanda Knox. I was like, girl, you deserve to like getting like home. She's been in jail. She needs to go do some.

She needs reprieve. Yes. She does. And she's the funniest fucking person ever. She's amazing. She's so funny. I am so happy I got to know you. Oh, yeah.

You too. Again, like I didn't know what to expect. I know. We've seen such a large character be built. And I agree. I can imagine you're like, loved that. Love what I did with that. But I'm excited for people to get to know Jackson.

Yeah. Which I feel like we really did today. I think we got some good little slices. I think if anything, there's something very calming to have watched this traumatizing show. And then have you kind of like close us out. Everyone's going to have watched it. They're going to wake up in the morning on Wednesday and they're going to be like, oh my God, I'm about to tune in this little piece of shit. Oh my God, he wrote off in the sunset. And then we're going to hear from you and you're going to be like, hey, guys, I'm Jackson. Life was hard and I'm here and I'm just hoping to have a good career. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I hope. That's what I hope. I hope that too. And I can feel they're going to take that. Yeah, good. Jackson, thank you so much for coming on Call Her Daddy. Thank you for having me. This was really lovely. I had a good. I had a good. I had a good. I had a good. I had a good. I had a good. really good time.

Me too. Thank you.