Call Her Daddy - Janelle Monáe: We Should Thank Our Exes

Episode Date: August 9, 2023

Janelle Monáe joins Call Her Daddy to discuss her personal evolution and the work required to reach her own age of pleasure. Addressing past rejection and trauma from her father's instability, she opens up about how these struggles impacted her personal relationships and how she found herself closed off to love. Janelle and Alex reflect on lessons learned from failed relationships and share why we should actually be going back and thanking our exes. Janelle speaks about her experience being in polyamorous relationships and her choice to openly talk about her sexuality despite coming from a religious family. Janelle and Alex discuss what it means if a partner refuses to post you on social media and debate whether this is actually a red flag. Janelle speaks about the inspiration for her new album, The Age of Pleasure, and what this phase of life means to her. For the game mentioned in the episode look for: Real Talk: 110 Relationship Questions You Should Only Ask Your Friends by Amil Barnes

what is up daddy gang it is your founding father alex cooper with call her daddy janelle monae welcome to call her daddy thank you so much for having me i'm first of all i'm just so excited to meet you i'm a huge fan of all your work i was listening to your music on my way here and i'm like okay you are giving sexual sensual fun party vibes it gives all the vibes your album is amazing I'm so happy to have you here oh thank you so much for having me of course I'm I'm a big fan of your show thank you of your experience rather so I was really happy when I found out we were going to do this so thank you okay tell me how your summer is going you were on vacation where were you let us pretend we were there with you oh please i'm like can we all just go on vacation for the whole summer come on everybody everybody let's do this let's all agree

that summers are for vacations paid for by the government i love this energy paid for by the government let's we're gonna like manifest it here now because it's like when you were younger I feel like summers were always vacation because off of school but when you become an adult nothing is fun anymore we're like how we need to go on vacation okay so where were you okay so I was in Ibiza Ibiza Spain okay um And then I stayed there for probably like five or six days, which was like an experience. Like it is a party place. So we did not go to sleep.

I went with like 10 of my other friends and we didn't go to sleep till like seven in the morning, every morning. I can't even say night. But it was so fun. It was that ooch, ooch, ooch, ooch, ooch, ooch, ooch, ooch. That ooch, ooch music. I kind of like ooch, ooch, I can't even say night. But it was so fun. uh I've never been ocho rios beautiful people the food the chicken patties the beef patties the shrimp curry oh the plantains I had at least 152 plantains what one by one oh yeah as you're saying that I'm like oh I feel like I'm there with you oh it was like it was heaven so I will say I'm

sort of mentally still there. It's okay. We can keep it chill. We're on vacation. This is summer. Like we're just going to relax today. Okay. Let's relax. And it's so interesting that you say like as kids growing up, it just reminded me like I didn't take vacations as a kid. Okay. I think that's why I'm so adamant about it now. I didn't, you know, my parents worked a lot and, and we didn't get the opportunity to go outside of Kansas. So I didn't take my first vacation until really my first album came out. And now you're like, I deserve this. I'm making up for lost time. As you should. That's phenomenal. I feel like when I go on trips with my friends, there's someone in the friend group

that's like the planner, that's like the reservations and the itinerary person. And then there's people that are more like chill and just going with the flow. Who are you in the friend group? Oh my God. I'm the one actually sending out the group texts. Like dinner, I could be at the club. It could be four in the morning.

I'm like, lunch is going to be served at 2 p.m. breakfast for anybody between 9 and noon dinner's gonna be 8 like I love making the itineraries I'm that friend you're the dream though I'm I'm yeah like people are like Janelle why are you doing and I just I don't know I just love curating experiences. Yeah. I grew up actually throwing parties with my best friends, middle school, sixth grade, seventh grade. We would rent out this location in one of our friends' neighborhoods, this little white building, and we would charge people a dollar to get in. And I would hide in the bathroom because I didn't know who was going to come I had so much

anxiety around it and then once it would get packed my friends would come underneath the stall because I locked myself in the bathroom they'd be like it's packed come out come out bitch get out get out get out and so I've just always loved curating experiences for people I mean I think that's a like a great trait and quality to have like I feel like that makes a lot of sense of like what I wanted to talk to you about today is obviously your new album the age of pleasure is out and I was while I was listening to it I'm like you have such a specific great vibe that's like very infectious which I love and I'm curious like are you currently in your age of pleasure have you always been like and what is age of pleasure to you?

Oh, that's a great question. I wasn't always in my age of pleasure. just worry, a fight, you know, fighting back against systems that seek to oppress folks like myself and the people that I love and centering that. And with this album, which I actually don't even call an album, I say that it is a soundtrack to a lifestyle it's a lifestyle you know we live this um I wrote this this this project for my friends and for me and I was just like if we fuck with it that's all I care about so I would throw parties at my house with my friends who own this um party collective called everyday people and if I knew we were going to be having and hosting them on a Saturday, that Monday or Tuesday, we would go into the studio and we would write like two

to three songs that would work in the DJ's playlist. I wouldn't tell anybody it was me. I would not like make a big thing about it. And I would be very nervous. Like, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God, are people going to sit down? Because if people sat down, it was not going to go on the album. If people were not shazamming, it wasn't going on the album. And so every song that you hear, all of my friends, all of the people who were with us celebrating in this safe space, they are responsible for the songs making the album that takes a lot of confidence but also just like self-awareness to be like i'm gonna play my friends my songs they're gonna have no idea it's me and watch let's see if they vibe with it so like every single because i was thinking when i was listening to champagne i was like okay like this is a vibe like i would listen to

this like getting ready with my friends like getting ready to go out like but then i'm oh i'm wondering like so you're sitting there being like do they like it do they like it and then you're like check that's going on the soundtrack yep i'm like how do people move okay what or i saw some people shazamming and then some people would be like wait is this but i never would confirm i would go hide and be like wait is this but I never would confirm I would go hide and be like you know having somebody else tell me what's going on um but yeah like it's it's as an artist presenting anything before the world gets it like for that first time I talked a lot of my artist friends and we're all like it is one of the most like scary things ever scary feelings to have because it comes from such a pure place when we create and for it not to be accepted you don't know you you know you you take it but for me I got

I I was like I'm ready I'm okay I had to heal some shit you know because because some of that is attached to to just rejection issues abandonment issues like people don't like my stuff that could go down to the root of an issue that you just need to fix and I definitely used um a portion of this pandemic to to sort of work on that and to get to to my own you know traumas that I had to heal and to get to a place to where I was like wait I've been really centering fighting so much that I don't even know what my life is like outside of that who am I you know I taught I like who am I outside of the fight you know who am I and so I had to sit with myself and ask myself and you know when I think about the word pleasure there is no pleasure

without feeling safe yeah I didn't always feel safe that's so I appreciate you sharing that because I one can relate in terms of like putting something creatively out there and being extremely nervous to see obviously like are people gonna like it on top of that obviously you infusing parts of you with your sexuality and race and growing up and your experiences like that's like a really vulnerable moment to be infusing something into a work of art and then like fingers crossed hoping people like it you kind of have to slowly be really good with yourself to be able to know like sure I can like perfect my craft a little bit more but down to the core like if people don't like it I'm still going to be OK with myself.

And that must take time, though. Exactly. It does. It takes a lot of unlearning. Yeah, it takes a lot of. Fucking with yourself, you know, and like I have to say, like, you have to be like I fuck with me you know yeah okay somebody doesn't like a song that I made but that doesn't make me a bad songwriter yeah that doesn't make me a bad artist that doesn't mean that I should just throw away my whole career you know and you have to just understand that sometimes we're not always in the same space that we can take in yeah you know take in the message or the energy that an artist is trying to put out and um there's nothing wrong with that it's just like okay

this didn't resonate with you okay but I don't give you that power over me you're not more powerful your thoughts about my art are not more powerful than my thoughts about my art yeah it's so real what you're saying too because even when I was listening to you say like I was fighting for so much of my life like and when am I gonna get out of this stage that's also the beauty of art is like it will come to it when you're ready like your music would have sounded so different in your fighting stages verse now when you're like I fucking love myself I'm more clear on who I am I'm more secure in certain things that were like eating me alive maybe when I was younger and going through it and you can tell like this album I like it makes you smile it makes you feel yourself it makes you

just like want to live and I don't know if that sounds corny, but like, no, it's facts. No, it's really beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing. Yeah. Every moment of your soundtrack felt very thoughtful and put together. And it is a story. So I just, I'm a creative person. So I just want you to know I really respect you and it's great.

Thank you. You know, I wanted to focus on feeling too. know I think feeling is what music uh gives us it makes us feel it makes us want to dance it makes us want to party it makes us want to cry it makes us want to feel ourselves and feel sexy have sex all those things it's such a powerful energy and the fact that it's a feeling that I had that I felt like, man, this is this makes me feel good, knowing that that makes you feel and we are just meeting each other. That's such I think that's such a beautiful exchange. So thank you so much. Of course, it's interesting. You kind of mentioned this earlier, and I want to talk about it. I know you've talked about going to therapy

and working on yourself. And I know you're at a great place in your life and you know, the age of pleasure. But let's go back a little bit. What is the biggest part of yourself you had to heal was, again, deal with my rejection and abandonment sort of trauma. Where did that start from? You know, my dad and I, who were like this now, we're super close, but my dad struggled with addiction growing up and so he was in and out of my life and so there were just times where I didn't know if he was really going to come and pick me up you know I just I did the trust wasn't there I felt let down there were you know moments um that that that that happened all the way up into you know high school and and other things that happened so I had to go back to those, high school and other things that happened. So I had to go back to those times that were painful, that those times that I just had to forgive my dad. I was like, I have to forgive you. You were struggling with drug addiction. You were not

the best version of yourself. And now that you are, we get to make up for that. We get to make up for that time. And as I healed that and I talked to him about it a lot changed for me as I forgave him I forgave my own self for spending so many years you know um in that dark space and connecting that to my art you know if if I thought that I had done something wrong you know why wasn't he showing up for me? And so when you go and you in the back of your head are thinking that you're doing something wrong, that your own dad isn't around. If in your art, you feel like people are not liking what it is that you're doing, or they're judging you or whatever. It's so all it's intertwined, you know, the feeling of like, them leaving you like your dad left you, you never want to feel

that. And so I had to get to a place where I was, I understood what that was. And I had to let go. And I had to be okay with knowing that there's nothing wrong with me. If if if folks don't want to come to my party, you know, even me hiding in the bathroom, they don't they didn't want to come to my party. Okay, that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with me my dad it wasn't nothing wrong wrong with me while my dad wasn't around he was struggling he was battling and people are battling so many things people are into different things that perhaps what you're you're doing doesn't necessarily align with it or they just plain might not like it yeah that's okay but do you like you I think it's so interesting when you start to connect to your childhood and how your parents raised you and you know what

trauma did you go through when you don't deal with it there's just like this anger in you or there's this like resentment and there's just a part of you even if you don't want to label that like there's just something in you that you feel like you haven't resolved and a lot of times we don't have the perspective of kids of like oh like this wasn't intentional that my dad was doing this to like neglect me and make me feel abandoned but it happened and so two things can be true right like he wasn't trying to like inflict pain on you he was going through something but it affected you and until you go through all of that it's gonna influence the way that you move in life that you see life yeah but even you saying it's interesting like it affected your art i'm interested to know how did it affect your personal relationships with

this theme of abandonment within you it affected them for sure yeah it was just like trust issues um you know breakups were intense yep because it just mirrored that but now like there were moments where you know I was dating someone and you know we broke up and and and just was like, I will never talk to this person again, the way they made me feel. I will never talk to them again. And after I started to, um, go through therapy and I have an emotional support coach that I talked to, um, after, which by the way, therapy, like we're, we're, we're benefiting from therapy. I just really wish that it was free for every person around the world. I really, really, really do wish that there was a fund that everybody could access to where they could have therapy. They could have somebody to talk to and work through.

I do believe that we will be in a much better shape as a community, as a nation, as a world. So I just wanted to say that because I feel like damn I wish everybody could go could experience these things um so I was like I would never talk to this person again and after I went through you know understanding and getting to the root of like my my rejection abandonment trauma you know what I did I thanked the person who I was in a relationship with and it did not work out for us. I thanked them. I said,

you know what? And my emotional support coach said that I was going to do that. It's like, you are going to thank this person because you know what this person did for you. They forced you to deal with something that you were not going to deal with. They pushed you to go back to the root of the problem. You were not going to do it.

You were moving. You were too busy moving. You didn't have time. But that relationship, the ending of that specific relationship forced that. And I literally called that person and I thanked them. I said, thank you so much. You have no idea.

Like I was really walking around here hurt and you forced me to like, you know, and so they started sharing things with me. They were just like, I just wasn't ready. I was confused myself. I did not trust. It was going so well for us.

I'm so used to chaos that I didn't. I felt like this was not going to end how I wanted it to end. I am also dealing with rejection issues. So we just kind of heal through each other. And and that and it helped me in my other relationships. I was like, here are the here are the things that I was doing because of my trauma. When I'm free from that trauma, I'm like a really, really,

really like beautiful partner to have. And it just helped me to understand how I want to show up for, for my future partners. Isn't that so interesting when you meet people in life that obviously again, like you needed to work on yourself to be able to have that hindsight and be like, wait, that was so helpful.

But like most of the time in life in romantic partnerships I feel like specifically like you can get so hurt by them but that's not your family so you're like I can walk away but you're always going to learn something so incredible and if you can get past that hurt initially we really should be thanking all of our exes because it's like even if you cheated on me like I have partners in the past that I had so much resentment and anger and I look back and I'm like there's so much I learned about myself and my resilience and my worth and it's like had that not happened of course there's moments in life where like I wish no harm on anyone but like certain themes that you can take find the good part of it rather

than feeling so negative and angry because that gets us nowhere yeah that's interesting to hear you talk about like how you connected with that person yeah at first being like I'll never talk to you again and then you're like wait a second thank you thank you like fucking thank you and I will say though I mean I know it's like sometimes with exes, because I also had an ex that was just like, man, I wish I really had this new version of you. Like when we were dating, I wish that I was around. That was the person you showed me. And I was just like, yeah, I agree. But listen. What do you want me to say? I wasn't I wasn't ready. I was growing. I needed to grow. And, you know, I'm sorry, you know?

True. And, you know, it's interesting that I've had, I remember an ex I had kind of similar to that. But you also wonder, like, but if I was this new version of myself, we probably wouldn't have been together. Because you were attracted to me. Then we ended up for some reason. Right? Because we were both toxic as hell as hell right we both were toxic and so like you can wish yeah it wouldn't you would we

I would definitely would not this new version would have not dated right you know that that that that person I love you yes I love you but there's just no way that I could put myself back into that sort of like chaos. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, again, it's like you're both growing. So for him to be even able to see your growth. Yeah. Phenomenal. Love it. Amazing. But we probably needed to go on our own ways to actually get whole and good and feel healthy within ourselves. And maybe that's just not the right fit. But at the time it was. Yeah. And so we can appreciate each other's growth, but we're not going to grow together. Yeah, we grew together. And and that's a beautiful thing. I always want the best for people. Like even if we're not together, as a human that also help contextualize

breakups is like, even though we're not together, I don't want anything negative to happen to you. I don't want you to I don't want anything bad to happen to you. I don't want you to, I don't want anything bad to happen to you. As a human, I want the best for you. And if that means that it's not with me at that time or at that season, then so be it. Yeah. Yeah. If someone's listening to this and is like, wow, I really relate to you. Maybe they had someone in their life that didn't show up for them and was constantly,

you know, neglecting to be there't show up for them and was constantly you know neglecting to be there and show up what did actually working through that childhood trauma like look like for you because I can see some people like you know how do I begin to like repair this like where do I start? Ooh. I mean, like I said, I just wish everybody could afford therapy. But if you can, try to get you a good therapist that you can just talk freely to that can help you. Like, and don't lie to them. You know, don't lie. Be transparent. Tell the truth.

Make sure that they're pushing you. Um, and you need to not be afraid to do the work. It's going to be painful. It's been a lot of tears, a lot of crying, a lot of just like confusion, but just know that you're growing, like, you know, better, right? You're no, you're're you're understanding you a lot more and sometimes that that feels confusing to your body to yourselves because you're literally being like rerouted like the way that your mind is is is being rewired so it's going to feel uncomfortable but just stay the course because i promise you that if you do the work there is going to be it's going to feel uncomfortable, but just stay the course. Cause I promise you that if you do the work, there is going to be, you're going to be like, I never thought I would

see the day. I literally never thought that I would be this person. It's like I planned, I sort of planned it out, but to live it out and to be living what I dreamt about doing and the freedom in which I move. Cause it's's not that like you're not going to deal with issues and problems and things like that but the way that I'm so solid with myself now I didn't know you know I I I was free but but there are levels to it yeah there are levels to it so just stay the course and you'll reach the next level. I love that advice because even hearing you talk, it's like we all reach a point in life when we haven't dealt with our shit where it just starts coming up more and more. Relationships are failing.

Friendships are having issues. There's things at work like it just starts to creep up. Yeah. And those are usually the moments where in a good way, like you cannot deny you need to address it. And I love that you said it's so fucking uncomfortable yeah but you got to do the work because then you won't be uncomfortable but you're going against something that you literally have been living this way your whole life yes so

you're going like against the grain you're going against yourself your future self is fighting your past version old version of yourself damn it's like looper in a sense but different right right anyway um you mentioned now that you have a good relationship with your father and I can imagine there are people really relating to you today also of like how did you know it was time for that you were going to be able to forgive and have an actual relationship with your dad I wanted it you gotta want it too sometimes you're just like I don't really want a relationship just because you birthed or helped bring me into this world like as a person you can be like I don't really want this and that's totally fine I think I wanted it because my dad is cool like Like my dad also had a music career, but drugs got in the way of that.

And so me and him can talk music. He understands like all my favorite artists or his favorite artists. When I put out Lipstick Lover, all of the art that that I'm doing, my dad supports it. Like he's like, I want you to know as your dad, I think what you're doing is brave, is sick as fuck. I love you. I want you to know I got your back like as a black man in this living in this country I'm supporting you my queer non-binary um you know artistic daughter like I'm here for you and I knew he always had that sort of that's sort of where I get both my parents are like shows like they could each have their own TV show.

And people they would not care about me. They'd be like your mom and your dad. Like, you know, they're not together because they're very much so alike in many ways. You know, they're just super like flamboyant and their personalities can take up a room. But good, sweet people. So with my dad, I always knew that like when it was time to take risks, that was going to be the person that was going to affirm me. And I wanted that and I needed that.

And also for him, I wanted to give him another opportunity post, like being sober to know me you know to know me I think I think that that for both of us we needed that like I needed to have the support of of of my dad and I felt like for him to have been because he had also gone to prison so he had been locked away for years and I was like I want him to come out sober and to know what it's like to receive love from me yeah not guilt how old were you when your dad went to prison I'm timeless so yeah it doesn't matter I was there I was alive at some point yeah i know no but i was uh this it was on and off you know middle school elementary school high school yeah like always

you're so successful in so many different areas like you're an author you're an actor you're a singer it's insane how talented you are and i'm thinking thinking again, it's always like, we never know what someone goes through. Like you rising to fame, having your father, you know, having these struggles, like were you ever just, was he still struggling when you first came up and started to get, yeah,

yeah. Well, no, he was, that's when he sort of got, got clean. So that was great. That was good.

I needed that right at that time. Cause I was going to say like, damn, like everyone probably seeing you in the tabloids and everything, like having all this success. And yet you want to repair a relationship with your father because there's nothing, everyone can relate when you do something so good at work or at school or you want to call your parents and you, cause you know, there's no one that's going to be more proud of you yeah and so I appreciate you sharing that a little bit because it's like yes you have all this success and but family and again when I say family I always make sure to clarify like I don't care if they're

blood like you don't have to be with people that abuse you or whatever whatever you consider who your family is to be able to repair relationships if you want it yeah it is kind of beautiful because you get to share your life with people that love you and support you and there's no jealousy it's just like we fucking love you like your mom outside the talent shows yeah yeah mom's like oh mom no it's really cute you are very private about your dating life yeah How have you decided to make that decision in this crazy Hollywood world that we live in? I just did. I was like, hmm. I was watching, observing. I was like, you know, the people that actually are more private seem more happy to me.

They just seemed more happy, you know, because it's like you don't have to worry about, you know, anybody seeing your partner over here and being like, oh, they're not there. They they assume that if you're not with them and they're seeing somebody else that you broke up and now you got to go answer that question. You have to go do that. And perhaps maybe later on in life, I'll open up a little more. But for now, I love having I love protect and it really is for the protection of of of them. Yeah. I, I don't want them to, you know, because I can handle sort of like paparazzi or whatever. It's annoying. Sometimes. Sometimes it's fun. I love messing with them, whatever, but I never want anybody that I'm dating to ever feel pressure. Um, cause they didn't ask for it. You know,

they didn't ask for it. So I just like to keep peace and harmony and no expectation from the public to know our every move. I think that's really healthy. And I think in a weird way I do always talk about on my show now Like I feel like people now more than ever can kind of relate to a lack of privacy even if you have

500 followers like we have accessibility now to post as much as we want and I think there are people that feel societal pressure to like post my partner with me because it's like there's almost like social currency that comes with like being this it couple and having whether you're in college or high school like this is everywhere now where people are feeling pressured to prove something on the internet yeah and when you can actually step back from it I'm not saying don't post on the internet but like try to find a balance within yourself like why are you actually doing this why are you doing certain things is it just to get the photo to prove something to people right it's just it's not as healthy yeah you know like live some type of privacy is really good for yourself because then you can also be with yourself like do I like this person or do I like how I'm

doing this or do I even want to do this right kind of have to like make sure you're not just doing it for the gram yeah no seriously I think because it's the norm to people to be like well you must post your kids and who you're dating and you know it's sort of like that's the norm these days um definitely I don't feel like anybody should feel pressure. And I think that if you are in a relationship where they're like, if you don't post me, we're done. I've had like people, we were just talking about this when we were on vacay and there was a question like, would you be upset if your partner did not post you on social media? And there were a lot of mixed questions.

I mean, answers, but I was was just like we have to talk about that first and foremost and if we agree that we want to keep things private then no but also like if my love is defined by a post you don't post me enough on social media like I really need to understand my own damn like priorities in life is that really necessary for me so I just think it's like for me it's not um I do think people should have conversations around it prior so that there are no expectations and you know because it could hurt somebody's feeling too though if they feel like you're trying to hide them. But that's deeper. That's like y'all need to really, y'all need to really work through some things. Yeah, no, that's true.

Because I'm thinking about it. Like, I feel like there are some people that also now because social media has been like very, you know, prevalent for the past, I guess, like 10 something years, people may have been in relationships where someone was extremely adamant about posting them and they almost found like when we're good he posts me when we're not he doesn't post me so when you go to your next relationship i bet there are some people that have like lingering feelings about like well why aren't you posting me and someone could literally be like because i don't think we need to i love you we're sitting here together isn't this better than us taking a selfie so also check in with yourself of like are you comparing

yourself to your friends or your past relationships get on the same page as your current partner yes they may not be being shady at all they're actually like no i fucking love you and i don't feel like we need i want or i want to protect you from you know all of the scrutiny or the you know just just things like that online world it's its own matrix and yeah you know it's it's tough it's wild what are you like in a relationship are you romantic are you dominant like what's the vibe over there um that was also we played this game called oh god i'm gonna uh i gotta get the get the name of it actually it's a a black guy who made the game card game so it's not a lot of us in that space so i really really have to get the name of it oh my god it's the anyway one of the cards i can link it in the description when you if you have your team send it you're so sweet I got it how sweet of you of course okay but the one of the questions

was like what would your ex say about you and we were just like everybody was like oh wow that's a good one um I feel like now I am let me think I mean because you know it's like and so the question when the question made me be like well this is what I think about myself but what if that isn't what they thought about me like okay of course I'm gonna say glowing reviews about me you know or maybe like a couple things that I need to work on but you know could have been some other things so for me if I was being honest in a relationship I mean I think I used to be a very like hard to know if I really loved them sort of person like it was hard to get to my heart because I had just been hurt and I hadn't really again dealt with sort of that trauma or someone what it would feel like of somebody leaving me I never wanted anybody to leave um me and if they did I didn't want them to ever feel like

I really loved you you know because like if you if I really told you that I really loved you and you we still didn't work then like wow what a stab in the heart, right? Yep. But now having gone to this new space, I'm a big communicator. I, you know, believe in evolution, even in your partnerships. And even if you started out one way, I'm always open to us growing. And I want to make sure that as we grow individually and as, you know, together, I've also been in polyamorous relationships as well. And I, you know, know what it's like to be with multiple partners.

So it's very important that, you know, we're communicating in real time about our feelings and if things are coming up like if if one person feels like okay um I'm having feelings of jealousy or I need some more time with both of you or you know uh how do we you know if we if we need to like work on some things. I like to know that. And I always welcome, you know, feedback. Um, I'm that type of person. Like I,

I don't, I don't ever want to be in a relationship where, uh, I'm thinking we're good and we're not like, you're wondering like, like, just let me know. Yeah.

Because I, I could probably adjust. We could adjust. Perhaps it was a misunderstanding or perhaps like oh you know maybe you thought you knew me or you knew how you you don't know how much I love you yeah I need to be more expressive in in those things and um so I think I'm averse. I love it. So I can be dominant. Sub. Like, you know, I'm non-binary as well.

So I can go with the, I can go with the flow about things. I love it. Meaning like, I don't, I don't just consider myself like to be boxed in as like this type of partner. Like sometimes you need me to be more like water. Okay. Okay. I need to be more like water okay okay I need to be more like water you need me to be more like a rock for us okay I'll be more like a rock for us how did you

know was there like a conversation or did you just know the moment when you first had your first polyamorous relationship like how did you know that you were comfortable with that dynamic well I was already in a relationship and and the person who was attracted um to me was also attracted to my partner and so they made it very clear and we just made it work okay would you would you continue to have those type of relationships again like are you still interested in that or has anything changed sure i'm open to love you know i'm like i think you know i love going to weddings and you know there are certain traditions that i love and congratulations i know you're engaged so i honor love and i think though love comes in different different variations and that is what I love about polyamory is it just shows us like just in the same way like I don't have just one best friend

I have multiple best friends and I love y'all you know we love each other and we can all hang out I don't just love one parent I don't just love one aunt like Like I love all of you. And, and, um, in relationships, you know, I think when, uh, intimate relationships, partnerships, I think that if we can talk about, um, what we need and what works for all of us. And I'll tell you, like, it takes a lot of unlearning because we're conditioned, especially in this society that this is what a union looks like. This is what, you know, it's two people in a relationship,

you know, it, it, it's like, so you're, you're, you're fighting against or not fighting against, but you're,

you're constantly having to, having to unlearn, uh, uh, the traditional way of, of what love looks like and so i love to by being my authentic self and us being our authentic selves challenge that notion yeah i love that because what is very frustrating and i love having conversations like this on my show because you're right we were all raised with something that was like this is the norm and it's

like I'm so happy finally I mean there's still so much work to be done but like even with sexuality and you know fluidity it's just like what like it's very frustrating I think for people that see it so clearly like let everyone do what they want to do and then people that are still so stuck in the way that they want things to have been done for thousands of years prior when you speak about polyamory like I can imagine there are people that are so judgmental of even that word like yeah how do you even do that and like yeah it's so small-minded and it's also like half the people that are saying that are speaking from a place of insecurity because I've seen people do it and be like isn't he cheating on his wife and like it's like there's so much judgment when when

it something really frustrates someone I always believe like there's something internally that like is getting you going because why do you care so much yeah but how did you I'm assuming at some point you have dealt with judgment and to anyone listening that's also maybe like going against the norm which fuck the norm let's just make everything normal yeah how did you deal with that yeah always always always people are intrigued people think you know um I think all sorts of things but I think education is important I mean we have the internet people can look things up and I mean my close friends are super supportive um you know certain family members have been like hmm but for the most part my my circle of people that I have around have been supportive even if they have questions and they wonder like okay all right

because also people are trying to figure out well hmm is that what I need or what we need? Or because I definitely been cheating on my significant other for a very long time. But what if after all, we just needed a third? We needed somebody else, you know, that that loved us and we love them to to to to be a part of our union. You know, people are trying, and people are scared. I understand that too. Some people are scared to go against tradition. And, you know,

some people come from conservative environments. I came from, you know, conservative Baptist background where I was taught to fear everything. You know, even getting into the music industry, I was taught to just fear, you know, don't be like this artist or don't be like that or you know it's just been a lot of unlearning and and I get that and I think I think though for me

I I have to know that this is my life here on earth I wasn't put here to um um to follow every rule i was i was put here to help rewrite them yeah i really appreciate you talking about that because it's just such a prevalent topic that still like is we again we have so much movement that we need to keep doing but i think having conversations like this help i'm curious to know like how did you decide obviously being a public figure to speak openly about your sexuality oh how did I decide it's sort of like decided for me because my art is a direct reflection of who I am you know I I have metropolis which is my first ep I have a lot of independent work I put out before that and then I did the the Ark Android, my first full length album suite. Then I did the Electric Lady, Dirty to not just boys, but to women and to energies. I knew that. And because of my sort of conservative Baptist upbringing, it wasn't welcomed.

I suppressed my sexuality. I suppressed my sensuality. I suppressed so much of me because I didn't feel safe. And so once I got to a place where, okay, I know for sure, for sure, uh, that, um, you know, I, I am, I, I am attracted to, to, to, you know, these energies. Um, I, I'm going to honor that. And with each project you could, he can hear me and feel me getting more brave you know I created the Android Cindy Mayweather who is representative of in my work who's representative of the other you know the queer person the black person the non-binary person trans all of all of us who are pushed to the margins of society and so I use that as a form of like a form of coping a coping mechanism until I was brave enough to actually say it and I think I was always dropping hints and I was getting more brave and you know less afraid um and then finally um because also

I was in a relationship and in what some would say you know it was a lot of things like you know understanding you know polyamory is was something that I wanted to explore well if you're already in a relationship you have to go have conversations with that person's family well what does that mean for you guys and so I could not talk publicly about certain things because they impacted my real everyday life you know what I'm saying like when I got off the stage I would also have to go see these communities that I was a part of. And like, if they heard about it through, you know, any other thing outside of like me saying it, then what does that mean?

And I just wasn't ready to have those sorts of conversations. And so I guess to answer your question, like, you know, I just got brave over time. And once I also felt like I had community because the albums and the art and music, what it also does is

it signals like, Hey, I'm out here, I'm out here. And then you meet people who come to your shows and you meet other artists and people, other humans who like, are like, Oh, I identify with that or I fuck with that. And then we become friends and you have a community now that supports you, that sees you, that even if your family you were born into doesn't support you or see you, you have support. And so once I felt supported and I felt safe enough, that's when I started to become even more brave. And I, um, I started to be courageous in the way that I started to live my life. And I think right now what I am doing, I've done this privately, is that I'm honoring all of me. I'm not closing off, you know, my sensuality anymore. I'm not

closing off my sexuality, my polyamory. If you listen to Only Have Eyes 42, you know, that's honoring that sort of union. If you're listening to Hot from the age of pleasure or champagne shit or even float, yeah, you know, you know, I I'm feeling much lighter now I float, I had to let some things go to get to this place and fear of not being accepted was one of them. And once I got over that hump, everything started to change for me. Community when you were saying that, I'm like, I hope everyone listening, if you're sitting listening to this

or watching this in your room and you haven't been able to fully embrace your sexuality, whether it's people around you, you're afraid how they're going to accept you. Like there are so many people out there that will love you and like are so having the same feelings as you. And so just don't limit yourself to just the people that you've been assigned as family to you. Absolutely.

It gets better. It does. Yep. As you start walking, whenever you're ready, don't feel pressure too. Yeah. Cause I mean, there were moments where, um, I felt the pressure to talk like interviewers with, they would just speculate based on my appearance because I was wearing a suit. They were like, Hmm, you're a lesbian. Like like that's what I would get you're a lesbian and so inappropriate

you know as I was trying to discover who I was and I didn't identify with being a lesbian I I I you know and and I had lesbian friends I love my lesbian family but like people would say certain things and try to force me to out what I was well if you're not a lesbian then what are you yeah and so I wasn't ready so don't feel also feel pressured to talk about your sexuality it is a private it can be as private or as public as you want it to be um for me it was seeping out into my art so much that like, I'm like, yeah, this is, this is me. Yeah. This is who I am.

And I wanted to also free a lot of people who were in their rooms, who could be in their rooms right now listening. Like you have family, you have a church, even outside of the church that you went to. If they disown you, like there is a big church around the world with people who will affirm you, people who are like you, your identity is not new. Like it's been happening. We're here. We're showing up for each other.

And I love you. I love you. when I was researching um I I read somewhere you don't refer to opening up to others about your sexuality as coming out but rather coming in in. Can you explain that? I didn't actually come up with that terminology of coming in. I just thought it resonated with me more. A guy by the name of John, I forgot his last name, but I heard him say it and he he's a queer black man. And I heard him and I was like that's exactly what it is it is bringing people bringing people into our worlds I'm letting you in on who I am versus like you guys are the norm and I'm just like hi I'm out here like no I'm letting you in to my world, which is sacred, which should be respected and appreciated. Most certainly not apologetic about it.

I love that. You're so right. Cause it's like, I'm letting you in on who I am. I don't, you don't deserve me. I don't have to come out to you. I don't owe you anything. Exactly. Like when I feel comfortable, I'll let you in.

Like come clean. Yeah. You're come out of the closet. Yeah. I'm sorry. I've been here. You just must not have seen me. Or I'm not even, you must not have seen me.

You must think that you and your, or you know what? Let's not even talk about that. Nope. I was going to go down a whole stream. I could too. How about this? Do you have a mantra you come back to when it comes to people who actively do not agree with the way that you live?

Ooh, yeah, I do. I have so much. I wish I had my phone with me. Um, but I think it comes down to power. You know, I think like when you give your power up to folks, like people's opinions have more power over you than how you feel about you. That's, I think, where things take that turn, where the depression sets in, where the constant need for approval comes in. And I think I'm a powerful ass motherfucker. You know, really?

Yeah. Just as you are powerful. We're all powerful, right? We all hold gifts that we have. And I think that, you know, again, how I think about myself has to be more powerful than someone who is trying to take me down through their negativity, who is trying to oppress me through their fear. My power and my love for myself is greater than that. Mic drop. Yeah, mic drop. What is something when it comes to dating and love that you know now that you wish you knew when you were younger oh sheesh man um I would say

I wish I had discovered vibrators a long time ago like honestly it's so fun to experience that with your partner it's phenomenal it's so great it's like what going to the sex shop like I remember when I first went see again when you come from those sort of like conservative backgrounds a sex shop I was full sunglasses on like do not have me in here oh my god what am I oh my god please nobody take photos of me like I did not know right I did not know the world of vibrators i did not know the clitoral stimulation that you and your the fun y'all can have with one you know it doesn't necessarily have to be penetration it's life-changing right how about you i remember i i didn't have one and my friend

bought me one for my birthday in college and i I remember like the first time I tried something with the back of my electric toothbrush and I was like I ain't gonna front no the electric toothbrushes if you're if you forget just go buy you a brand new one it slaps it's gotten me through it's gotten me through it is a lifesaver and so I I felt the same way though of I my friend got me my first one and then I was like oh my like I'd never have to have sex again. Like this is amazing. Like it just allowed me to recognize that like I hold the power of like my own orgasm. And like I don't need someone else to make me feel amazing.

Like I can do it myself because being taught like we grow up and it's just like the men will do this for you. And like you and I'm like, why am I going to wait for a motherfucker to give me an orgasm like this is amazing exactly don't wait for a man or anyone to give you you can do it yourself yes so I remember I felt the same way in New York I remember the first sex shop I went to with my friend I was not famous but I was mortified just being like I just can't make eye contact and I think that just comes from like shame of like we're not normalizing like like exploring your sexuality and enjoying especially as women like enjoying sex loving sex being connected with your body and I think it's so important that we start to have those conversations at younger ages obviously in a

safe way but like yeah especially for young girls you just start to like feel shame and like you're doing something wrong and that's why so many women i truly believe like we have such a hard time in the beginning like figuring out what works for us and knowing how to like get off because we were like it was basically like don't touch yourself you're a whore you're a slut and it's like oh what or you're a deviant or like touching yourself gross you know like if it was not you go get a boyfriend and y'all wait but don't have sex actually until you're married so go marry to have sex like I have cousins who actually married women just to have sex because they were just like god won't it's a lie it's a lie and i'm i i i will always just like

you know say like my heart goes out to to those of us who have clitorises and and and and just not just those of us who are with clitoris even you know for for those of us who have penises or whatever it is the pleasure that we can give ourselves like how that was stripped away from us um i just hope that we can reconnect again with our bodies and reclaim our bodies that's the space that i'm in like i am reclaiming my sensuality my my sexuality my pleasure like unapologetically like I'm not apologizing for talking about it for taking time to myself to make up for lost times I mean I think I could have avoided a lot of just even sexual interactions with people who I didn't really like but I just was like well here we go this is the only way that I can feel less shame about sex is if I do it with this person but like that leads to so much

confusion sometimes if you don't really really really like this person and they don't really really like you and it's a whole thing and so I think you actually avoid um you have less stress when you take matters into your own hands literally absolutely okay everyone listening today we are entering our era of the art of pleasure okay we're taking it into our own hands yes we are um i know we've been kind of like essentially talking about it this whole episode because we're talking about pleasure and finding our own voices to find that pleasure but what has been the most rewarding part of making this soundtrack for you yeah i mean just like you know we're talking about it's a soundtrack to a lifestyle and i think so many people or you know that i'm that i'm hearing that's why i can't wait to go on tour

i'm on tour our first show is in seattle the go on tour. I'm on tour. Our first show is in Seattle, the end of August. We're on tour. So get your tickets. We have some more, a little bit more available, but they're selling out right now. And I'll be on tour in North America through October 21st,

the age of pleasure tour. And so to see how people are like making this, their album, owning it. And like with their friends I see them just certain songs they're like oh my god you're speaking to my heart like I needed to hear float I needed to give myself permission to to let things go and and to go into my you know a stage of like what hot is talking about like i look good i look sexy i look handsome like non-binary folks are feeling seen trans folks are being seen like the community in which i intended for it to be and even outside of that i think

that you don't necessarily have to be a part of my community to to to vibe with it i think that what it just represents is like even in the midst of chaos you got to find your pleasure you have to make time for yourself and i actually brought you something what what so here's oh my god official age of pleasure i cut mine i was gonna say it's so cute no it's so cute you. I was going to say, it's so cute. No, it's so cute. You know I'm going to do this. No, I love it. It's so cute.

I wanted to bring you. Oh, this is so sweet. A shirt. And if you need another size. No, this is so good. I'll give you another one. No, can I cut it like you? Yeah, cut it like me.

I'm just copying you. But I've been staring at it and like it's such a... It's yours. Thank you. I adore you. It's so dope. I wanted to bring you a hand... This is so good.

A handwritten autograph. That's what I meant to say. I autographed you a copy of my book that I released in 2021 called the memory librarian. Thank you so much. A dirty computer. And, um,

yes, this is bringing the gifts, right? And girl, I know you've just got back from vacation. Like you're giving us all, you're getting us in our fields. We're all ready to go have sex with our,

come on. We got a book. We got a shirt on. Um, okay. To to anyone that is like you got to tell us what is if you have to pick what is your favorite song on the soundtrack oh shoot wow everyone's gonna go listen to this one it's so okay it varies because all of them man i, I mean, I hate to say it, but it's, it's, it's not a long album. I usually put out like, excuse me, like double albums. And with this one, I wanted you to want to replay it over and over and over again. I didn't want to, excuse me, I didn't want it to be too long because this one was just on um president barack obama's uh song of summer only have eyes 42 42 uh so listen to that one love it i mean but i love every last song on this project i'm having a hard time like figuring out what songs we're gonna play on tour i think i might have to just play all of them i don't know but because i love i also thought about them from

a live perspective and just yeah how fun it's gonna be to perform champagne shit and it's gonna be insane and i don't know what songs were you vibing to what are some of your favorites champagne shit um is it called phenomenal i really like that one like featuring doji yeah it's a vibe where like i don't know i really like that one like but again i it feels like it's a story that's being told and you're just like it's almost like an anthem vibe where you're just like vibing the whole time so i i agree i guess i couldn't like pick one too because you almost have to like listen to it all together like start to finish like. Start to finish to feel it. Because the dry red is good. The last song I love. When I was writing this album, I wrote it with friends.

I got to give a shout out to Nate Rocket Wonder, to Bueno, to Nana Kwabena. And also the features. Some of my favorite things is just to look down and be like, okay, Grace Jones is literally on this album you know sister Nancy who is like bomb bomb you know we can't go anywhere at a party without hearing her Jamaican influence Patra her Jamaican influence um when I think about um Nia Long who is an incredible actress coming and being a part of it. Amore, Dochi. Who else? Fela, Kuti-san, Sheung Kuti. Lots of horns on this project.

CKs on this project. I don't know. It's just so like such a beautiful love letter to the diaspora and to to music that again has gotten us through you know a lot of the influences come from a lot of my friends who were in you know who are from Nigeria at our parties Ghana South Africa LA New York Atlanta you know all of us coming together and and feeling safe yeah safe enough to explore safe enough to be Janelle I can't thank you enough for coming and call her daddy this was truly such a pleasure I'm so happy I got to sit in the same room with you and feel your energy thank you thank you you are fantastic Alex thank you so much for having me and all the beautiful work you do.

Like I don't really love doing lots of interviews, but you have a very great way of connecting human to human with folks. And I'm sure people tell you that a lot, but I'll just say, like, I feel your aura and your energy through the screen. And just congratulations on everything. Thank you. You're fantastic. Thank you. Thank you. Woo.