Call Her Daddy - John Mayer

Episode Date: December 21, 2022

John Mayer joins Call Her Daddy - and you’ve never seen him like this before. He discusses his rise to fame, relationships, love and what’s next. Get ready for the first ever Call Her Daddy Holiday Special, featuring live performances from John Mayer.

what is up daddy gang it is your founding father alex cooper with call her daddy john mayer welcome to call her daddy thank you alex i am so happy you're here john i think we need to tell the daddy gang who are my listeners how did we get here because we went to a little dinner the other night and i want to kind of go through what happened at that dinner because people are probably like, how did you get John Mayer to come on your show? There's only one way, which is to find me personally, have dinner with me, be cool.

And you're actually an incredible pitch woman for coming on the show. And I didn't really have an intention of coming on. We had a great dinner, Kazzy, David, you and me. And I think there's something to do with December where you've all year been yourself,

followed your rules, done what you normally do. Don't do what you don't normally do. And I think somewhere in the last couple of weeks of each year, I go like, I want to do something out of character. I'm so happy. This is what you're calling out of character and you get to sit down with me because I yeah I pitched you like why you should come on the show and you and I kind of like battled for a minute meanwhile Kazzy sitting there like eating her chips like loving every second of it just

being so happy that it was a debate it was a debate and you decided to come on what I liked about that meeting at um dinner was that you are very sure of yourself. Have you always been that confident? Like what were you like in high school? Oh, that's, I've had some degree of confidence. It took that to get out of my town, to get into the world, to push against the forces of people who were saying, not just not encouraging me, but actively discouraging me from doing what I ultimately have done. And so the quality of that confidence has changed

from like a beat down every door, push yourself on people as much as you can all the time to something way more relaxed. So everyone, when they first start out, is way more confident than they need to be because they don't know how confident they need to be. Right. Oh, interesting. And so it was kind of obnoxious when I was younger. I mean, if you're spending your whole youth pushing against these forces of you can't do it, you're crazy, you're going to end up on the street, this is a terrible idea, that's going to have a hangover effect on you for a long time where you're going to still keep pushing. That's really interesting because I can imagine like I was,

why I'm asking about high school is because I feel like we can agree that there's such formative years where peer approval socially is so important towards the way that you view yourself. How did you get along with people and how did people treat you? I didn't and they didn't. I didn't have a presence. I went to school to get it over with and my life began at three o'clock in the afternoon when I came home and played guitar. So I didn't dislike anybody. And I almost didn't

even need that particular level of approval. I was kind of invisible and I just went to go. I didn't really pay attention in class. It's really hard to explain. And there are people out there who I think would understand when you're 13 years old, you got five years before you can even do anything on your own. And that was the hardest part of my entire life, was from 13 to getting out of high school. Because you already know what you know. And you have to go through the rest of this kind of rote plan that's been set for everyone.

And I remember sitting in class going like, I'm not supposed to be here. So you're saying you knew what you wanted to do. You knew you were going to be a musician. You're like, why am I in social studies? Like, what the fuck am I doing here? Did people bully you?

Like, were you the like dorky musician or no? I was bullied a little bit, but I was always kind of big. It was tall. I remember getting punched in the arm for flinching. I don't know if you've, if that's still a thing.

This is the most butch your show has ever been. I'm talking to, talking to you about Christmas special. We're okay. Did you date in high school? I had one girlfriend in high school, but I didn't really date. I had one girlfriend in high school. What were you like in like a, what was John like in high school dating? Probably the best version I ever was of myself. I would like to think that was the best version and the next time is the best version. I only had one girlfriend before everything changed in my life. To me, like, the truest, most innocent, realist, like, sweetest. It was high school.

Did you ever, through your fame, wonder if you should reach back out i did i did reach back out a few times because you were looking for what maybe to bring that part of my life into the new part of my life but by that point she was married and had kids and i thought that's a separate chapter or, or, or that thing in my life was a separate chapter. I don't have to talk to people to know that I'm, I'm okay. That we're okay. Yeah. I think that's telepathic. I liked you said that at dinner. Um, just something about like there's certain people in your life that you don't need to be in their life anymore, but it's

really cool when you have a mutual understanding, whether it's an ex, whether it's someone that was your friend at some point to just be like, we don't need to talk to know like, we're good. We're all right. We don't talk anymore for whatever reason, but like. Yeah. I mean, there are a couple little outstanding, still vibrating things. I would love to get to a hundred percent closure. I don't think that's realistic in anyone's life. Do you have someone in your life that it's always going to be incomplete? Yeah. I think everyone has a couple of those. But for the most part, it's been important for me to move on into my adult years in my life with the piece of like, we're cool. We don't have to talk.

Okay. So we're about to leave high school because I'm just kind of going through the journey of you. Yes. You performed at your high school graduation. Yes, I did. Were people nice to you then or no? Yeah, that was right around the time where I started to reveal myself as a guitar player. And I was in a band and we'd written a couple songs.

We'd written a song for graduation. I didn't actually graduate at that ceremony. So I didn't get enough credits to graduate. I had to go to summer school and so it was a very deep moment to play that song and walk off the field while the rest of my friends graduated and i walked home okay but just so everyone knows how bluesy is that six years later you're a grammy winning artist This part freaks me out. Chronologically speaking, this part is maybe one of the only aspects of my life that truly blows my

mind. Why? Because it's such a short period of time that felt longer to me. I was, I graduated in 1995 and six years later I had, I was playing arenas or, you know know at that point I was playing clubs but I had an album out and that would end up winning Grammys and that was six that was six years so it didn't really fucking matter that you had to go to summer school you're like I didn't even

need to graduate and you know what I always think now is like there are people who get branded misfit, loser, you know, in some way sort of developmentally disabled. No, they're not. They're on some other track that they have no school for, you know. I love that you're saying that too because it goes back to what you said of like I was sitting in that class and I knew I wasn't supposed to be there, but I had to be there. It's interesting to hear you say like, it's so crazy to me that six years after I graduate college, I'm winning a Grammy for your body is a wonderland. You were dating someone at the time that you're writing this iconic song, which. No, I wasn't. You weren't?

No, that was about my first girlfriend. That was about the feeling, which I think was already sort of nostalgic. I was 21 when I wrote that song, and I was nostalgic for being 16. I thought it was about a different celebrity. No, that's one of those things where people just sort of form that idea. It gets reinforced over the years. No, no, no. I had never met a celebrity when i wrote that

song and did your high school girlfriend know you wrote that about her that's a good question maybe maybe she didn't maybe she didn't to this day to this day maybe she didn't yeah so if you were my high my one and only high school girlfriend that was actually about you. And this happens a lot with songs, right? So I've made a rule. I guess I always had a rule that I would never tell anyone what's, I don't, I don't write songs about people. I don't write them for people or about people. I might use a relationship that inspires me to write something. So yeah, even if I was writing a song because of someone, it's like that goes away and I'm left with the song.

So I'm not, I don't like telling anyone that a song is about somebody because most of the time it's not. And it takes people away from themselves because they're just visualizing who I'm writing about. But the songs come out. They mean things to people. Sometimes people think it's about one person or another. Sometimes it hurts the song. Sometimes the song doesn't do as well

because people go, well, he's just petty. And I go, that's got nothing to do with that. But I'd much rather keep the sanctity of these songs intact and have a couple of them, intact and have a couple of them kind of burn a couple of them because people think it's about one person and it's not because it's really important the most important thing in my life now is are my songs yep and so when i go play songs now i'm playing songs that i see people in the crowd are reliving their life it ain't about anyone but the people I'm singing to.

It's now about their college years. It's about their sick family member who died. It's about their fight with cancer and how they beat it. These songs now for people are these waypoints in their lives. It's not about any one person. The first three records in my life was just like proving, proving. And you should. And then you start hearing people tell you thank you and your music got me through a dark time that's so much deeper I mean I definitely think everyone should have those prove it years

and enjoy them yeah because I definitely did like now do you see now do you see and i had a lot of that i had a lot that i had to get out yeah when i first started and it was obnoxious and to them and i get it and i think it explains a lot of younger people who have just hit the scene who you're like this person is obnoxious i have a lot of grace for it because i you never know how hard someone had to punch to get out of their town or their family or a relate you know and and you just I think that's where people were like I got the douchebag title a lot and I was trying incredibly hard but I had been trying incredibly hard since I first played the guitar to get where I needed to get, I couldn't get the message like, John, they like you just fine. You can calm down.

They like you just fine. Yeah. You know? I really appreciate you explaining it that way because I now too have a different opinion, especially maybe in the music industry or, you know, actors and actresses. Like the way that maybe people are being perceived online

and the way they're acting probably is really not who they are. It's they're trying to elevate to get the attention, to get the approval. And eventually as you see people in their careers, and this is, you don't even have to be famous to have this. You can be doing it at your job. You can be doing it socially.

You're trying to make a name for yourself. You're trying to have a presence and it probably feels inauthentic, but you want to be seen. You want to be heard. You want to feel accepted. And that can lead to you feeling like, what am I even being myself right now? So I respect that. That's thank you. That's what everyone goes through. Everyone, by the time they grow up, have grace for other people on the way up as they fight through those things. The people who are the most vicious are the people who have yet to ask for grace because they don't need it yet.

Because they still have this view of the world like they're in total control and they're going to make all the right decisions for the rest of their lives until they don't. And I feel like that's just something everyone passes through. What do you cherish the most about the rise of your career? Oh, that's a great question. The rise or where I am now? I'll tell you, I'll answer both.

The rise is that it was during a really cool time. I don't think I would have had the same success I have now if I had begun three years ago. I think I'd be trying and trying and trying on social media and trying to get things out there. I mean, there was just so fewer people doing things that you automatically had more people paying attention. So I'm really lucky that I came up when there were just fewer cars on the road in terms of, you know, making songs and having people pay attention to you and being seen. And now where I am now, the greatest thing is that any idea that I have, I can do. Any idea that I have. I feel like if there was a song idea that I had for any musician in the world,

I'd have a pretty good chance of them at least listening to it. And that's really interesting to me. That to me is the greatest thing, is like the songs I already have that I'll take for the rest of my life, but also any idea that I have, I think any musician in the world would want to go like,

I want to hear what Mare has for me. So I feel like that's the idea that I could bring anything to life that came to mind. That's the ultimate for me. I'm interested. So as your rise to fame, how did your interactions with women change? Oh, that's a good question and i think i saw

the approval of women as being something that was like each time somebody liked what i did i felt like because of the way that I was brought up, that that was the only time that was going to happen. And so I feel like I was made to believe growing up that if somebody liked me, that was pretty much an accident and that should be capitalized on. And so I felt very deeply when somebody liked me. Very deeply. I think, look, you know, the elephant in the room is that I'm on a show that caters to women and I have a couple of nameplates on me

like Lothario and Womanizer and stuff. And I think, look, that is what that is. That's the role I play on the big TV show that I didn't write. That's fine. Maybe I had a hand in it or something. But I think people would be surprised to know that it was less me going like,

you know, the meme of the guy behind the tree. It was less this and more like this. Me? Yeah. Yeah. behind the tree it was less this and more like this me yeah yeah you know because it was it was always set forth to me that like um that shouldn't happen right like without dissecting into your childhood the a woman's approval and attention to you, clearly there was an insecurity within you that you perk up and would fight till the end to make sure that you're getting to experience that as long as they're willing to give it to you. And you're like waiting for someone to give you the approval and that like breathe, breathe life into you essentially.

And you loved a woman giving you attention or validation. Most of that is true. And it's so true. It's like, I can't even, I won't even flat spin about that after this is over. I won't even, that's some things are too true for me to get upset about.

That's remarkably true. What you just said, except it was, it was a little less overt in terms of me being like yeah keep going keep going right it because I did invest myself I did invest myself in relationships well and I think we can also agree and we talked about this a little bit at dinner like there's you have perspective now right yeah like we can wrap things into a bow now it's like oh i see what i was doing in high school why i was so insecure and i was looking

for the guy's validation and then like i can now see what i was doing in the moment you have the feelings but you can't put it all into a box you now can be like i get it now i get what i was doing i see the interactions i had and now i see this theme and now I'm able in later in my life to be like, whoa, that's why I did what I did. Also known as growing up. What a fucking concept. Also known as growing up. And like, like I said, like the people who are going to understand this interview the most are the people who have had that either been on the receiving end or the giving end of that you know it's the people who haven't had that yet who will probably have the loudest reactions because they don't understand it yet and we all meet up at the end of this at the end of these crazy 20s and 30s we all meet up and i meet people. I can't remember if they were mad at me or if I was mad at them because we all meet up after this craziness and we all go through our own stuff.

You know, we all meet up at the end and we go, hey, how are you doing? This is, I'm sure, a hard question to answer. What is it like? Try your best. Yeah. For almost everyone in the world to know who you are um because i don't really live exposed to all of it it i don't quite feel it and i'm okay with it because it's linked to something that i have to do anyway. I get to do this thing. If I'm having

a day where I don't like any of this stuff, I can pick up a guitar and listen to myself play and go, that's why you do it. So the fact that this is all linked to something that I do objectively well, that I can listen to and I can write a song, I can play a song, I can play the guitar. That's what anchors me to all this stuff. All of this is happening because I play the guitar, write music, and sing in a way that people want to pay attention to. I can't imagine what this would be like if I didn't have that grounding element. And as I get older, I have so much empathy for people who are really well-known, but don't quite have something to hold on to like a buoy. You know, my life gives me this buoy, which is I can write a song. I can play guitar.

It's tough even that way but it's not like I'm famous from a thing that happened to me or a thing I was a part of that I was no longer a part of because the person who hired me for the thing didn't want me anymore so it's very stable I've come to terms of the fact that's never gonna be another way and most of it now because I don't really interface with people for anything other than music, for the most part, it's like I have manufactured irrelevance in the parts of my career that I want to be irrelevant. That is really scary to do. It's really scary to come off of that loop when you're in a news cycle, news cycle, news cycle. To really go, I want to shut down this part, that part, that part,

and that part, and feel like you're dying inside because those parts are going away. Now, all I have left is like people who want to talk to me, want to talk to me about music. I make people aren't, I'm not trending on Twitter just because I got on a flight and it was tough. It was tough to be like, yeah, you're going to play music. You're going to play music and you you're gonna put it all into that and not a day trading how people feel about you so you're saying that you didn't essentially play the role of the guy in hollywood the singer everything didn't work well that people started

like you said like people started writing headlines i didn't deserve the role. Why do you think that? Because it wasn't made for me. I'm the musician guy who writes songs that are like kind of hits. And I thought that I was just, through my own manipulation of the thing, was an A-lister. And I was going to, I'm an A-list celebrity.

No, you're not. But I had this moment in my 20s where I thought, well, this is where I belong. This is where I should be. And obviously it wasn't because I didn't really handle it very well. You know, I was like, didn't handle it very well. And so then that all kind of shut down and I got a chance to start it up again. And I haven't ever been happier in my life. I'm known for what I do. You're kind of essentially alluding to like you fucked up in your

20s or that's yeah late 20s early 30s okay yeah and that kind of set you on a different course yes of yeah i've got a okay but a more natural course i'm only doing what i should be doing in and i think there's a lot of people who are stuck in that loop of like not being where they want to be, but not wanting to be forgotten. And it's scary the idea that if you pulled away, you'd be forgotten. That if you got off Twitter, you'd be forgotten. That if you didn't throw yourself into the mix every day, you'd be forgotten. It's beautiful to be forgotten in the ways you ultimately don't want to be known you know what is an experience that shaped who you are that very few people know about

that's a that's a good one um Um, anxiety, deep anxiety before there was a social media that could tell you what anxiety was. Not to say it makes it any easier, but anxiety feeds off of feeling isolated by it. And so it's a little bit easier now when you can read other people's experiences and go, oh, okay. I mean, having anxiety in mid-90s, late 90s, it's like you think you're going crazy, you know? And so that to me gave me so much more depth, so much more depth. Those feelings, those feelings of panic, those feelings of the walls are closing in. They come with questions. They come with every question. Why can't I sleep? What's going on in the universe?

What's going on in my body? It turns into hypochondria. Is my heart beating faster? Is my throat closing? Why do I feel my pulse in my ear? And you're a web MD looking up everything. And whatever that is also makes you super keyed in to yourself in a way that for me, I wrote a lot of,

a lot of my music came from wanting answers after feeling really, really lost because I lost my weight just in my head. Like it got to the point where when I would have an anxious moment I'd be like well here comes a song do you ever get that totally and but I think there's points where I was worried that good content sometimes comes at your lowest and it's really hard to describe unless you're a creator where you're wondering if you're self-destructing. You're going to write a great sad song if you go through a great breakup. I'm going to have an incredible episode if I break up with my partner.

But at what cost for you as an individual outside of your craft and your job is that extremely detrimental to just your life? I never, and I can say this with great confidence, I never tried to induce an experience just to write a song ever in my life, ever. I've never thought if I do this, I'll get material. I promise you, I would have absolutely in those moments as a 20 21 22 23 year old guy traded every song I was going to write to not have that feeling no doubt about it no doubt about I would have said take all the songs I'll ever write stop this feeling from happening right now and for whatever that feeling

was it just focused my eyes on the important things what's going on in life what is that's where these lyrics come from you know that's where my first three records are from they're about managing anxiety why georgia why am i fucking here am i living it right like why am i here you know there's a song not myself on the first record would you want me what that's all about having a panic attack in front of somebody suppose i said i i you know and you know would you love me i don't remember the lyrics like would you want me when I'm not myself? Like, you ever have a panic attack on a date? No. Oh, man, that's how you bond with someone right there.

John, do you often have a panic attack on a date? Well, I mean, they make things you can take now for that, but I, yeah, I'm, I want to, okay. So I went on a date. I was, I was going on a date on my, my senior year in high school with like one of the prettiest girls. Couldn't believe that I'd gotten to the point where like this girl wanted to go to the movies with me.

I didn't drive until I was out of high school. So I was riding shotgun. So right there, I'm being driven by the girl I'm going on the date with. By the time we got to the movie theater, and I was eating like Tums because I had such bad nervous stomach. This is before like you figured out benzodiazepines. And I was eating Tums, stomachache. And before we even got out of the car, I was like, I have a stomachache.

Can you drive me home? And she drove me all the way home and I got home. And as soon as I got home, I was like, I'm deeply uncomfortable in a lot of situations. And so for a really long time, I would resist going out with anybody because it would make me so nervous that my stomach, I would just be, it would be terrible. This is why I love sitting down with people because when you think John Mayer, you can get any woman you want, right? In media land. You could get any man you wanted.

Thanks, John. I was saying being a famous guy is like being a hot girl. Oh, that's so interesting. Being a famous guy is like being a hot girl. Okay. Well, let me bring up my next question. Okay. People have been obsessed with who you've dated in your career.

And if you're going through like the tabloids and everything, it's like John Mayer is the it guy, right? And recently you joked that you're America's ex-boyfriend. Why did America break up with you? That's, that's my way of taking some of what I think is the air out of a, of a, you know, that's like elephant hunting in the room. I like, I like the statement. Yeah. I mean, that's how they see it. Bottom line, I'm one guy living one life. I don't need 300 million people in my life to agree that I'm an okay person. Most people, until the dawn of the internet, needed about eight.

I've got multiples of eight, which makes me a very happy and lucky human being. I only need to meet one more person that I want to spend the rest of my life with. So I do not need to have this worldwide consensus that I'm an okay guy. What is your type? Right? Hot, successful, makes more money than you. That's really funny. Well, I mean, every relationship I've ever been in was devoted to the idea that this could go the distance. My entire life, today included, if you told me that I could have a great two months with someone,

but it would end on the first day of the third month, I would not be interested. I have always sought potential for long-term relationship. I know what my mistakes were looking back. Not worth talking about. As long as you do the accounting as long as you do your homework as a human being as you stand in the shower and you waste a little water and you go yeah I really meant well but I did do that or yeah they meant well but they did do that and you you go, wouldn't do that again. I would approach that a different way. Maybe even from the beginning,

maybe even from day one, seeing them across the room, who knows? As long as you're aware of what those things are and how you can apply that to the next relationship, I don't see a problem with any past relationships ending badly. I agree. I just don't. Mine are different because they are well-known.

And I have not had a relationship in a lot of years. And it's funny how I think I started to notice like people would look at pictures of hot dudes on the internet and be like, I love this guy. And I'd be like, that picture's from 2002. You know what I mean? And it helps me understand that we tend to hold on to the part of someone's history that sort of revealed itself the most or was the brightest or the most easy to visualize.

And so I still, look, I'm still in a lot of people's minds in a good way doing something I'm not doing anymore. Whether they're attached to a record or a tour I was on. They still want to share YouTube videos of a tour I did in 2014 or whatever. And there are still people who go, oh, yeah, he's the man whore or whatever. But it's not on each and every person to update their knowledge of me every year. You know what I mean? But it's like you haven't updated your Facebook status.

There you go. So everyone's looking at you like 2009. That's actually a brilliant observation. It's like the world creates my Facebook status. But so here's why that's okay. If somebody gets you a little bit wrong, if you said something and someone recounts it and they get one word wrong and it makes something sweet sound not sweet, you're going to jump out and go, that is not what I said. Here's how I said it. You're going to fine tune that thing that you're being misunderstood for.

There comes a point where if you're so misunderstood, it's almost like they're thinking about a different person so the me that most people who don't know me are thinking about is so far away from me that I don't actually feel I don't actually feel like disrupted in any way by it they're talking about a character or a thing that's been like an artifact right like this one little glitch that sort of grew and became this other thing i don't feel the need and i hope you don't think this is like me going like let me set the record straight no no i'm i'm you know you're just taking us through your psyche yeah being being being misunderstood at this age is nowhere near as painful as it was being misunderstood in my 20s

and a lot of the shit that i did in my 20s was an attempt to reset the misunderstanding and i made it worse someone said to me years ago you're trying to eat the monster that's trying to eat you i've never heard a more true thing said to me and i look at other people right now and i go elon musk you're trying to eat the monster that's trying to eat you i see it and i have grace for never heard a more true thing said to me and I look at other people right now and I go, Elon Musk, you're trying to eat the monster that's trying to eat you. I see it and I have grace for other people trying to do it. We haven't learned that retreat is an option. Retreat is an option. I don't know where this idea of stubborn fight to the death stuff came from. You'll lose everything. It's really interesting to hear you talk about it because what I think we can also get to, and you don't have to be famous

to have this, being misunderstood, there is something inside of all of us at one point when you start to feel that. It's a really exhausting, scary feeling and you really want to fight to correct everything. If there's a rumor about you in high school if you if something happens at your job and people see you the certain way you start to spiral and then there's that moment where all of a sudden after so much fighting so much clawing so much trying to eat them up right yeah you're like at peace with like i don't give a fuck because you're good with yourself. Your reality is stronger than their ability to distort it. And at first, when it's not, it's one of the most sickening,

frightening, painful things to have your reality distorted. And if you're smart, theoretically, you start coming up with a plan to engineer how to undistort the reality that's been distorted. And that's the beginning of the failure because your behavior stops being natural and starts being what I did. If you're going to distort me, I'm going to distort me. I lost myself in that. The idea of I'm going to be more like you think I am

as a way to somehow phase cancel what it is. As if playing into it would make everyone in the world who shares my exact thinking go, oh, he can't be that because he's acting like that. He's in on it. So that didn't work and that didn't work. And it was like, I look back sometimes and I go like, you could have retreated. And nobody knows how to retreat because the stakes are so high.

The stakes are so high. You've got half of the world going, well, you love it when you do that. And the other half of the world going, you're losing your mind. And you go, well, I know one thing, can't give up now. And it's like, but you could. And six months months from now you would be so happy that you did I feel especially with social media you're trying so hard to prove yourself on this platform that's fake to begin with and I really feel like it's helpful to talk through like there is an option to retreat and you don't have to post that photo to prove you were at that place.

You don't have to post this photo and edit it. So you look a certain way, even though you don't look like that way in person, like there is just some extreme peace in allowing yourself to enjoy what's in front of you and the people that know you and care about you and your friends and your family. Like I've been subjected to it where I'm trying to prove that I'm not this girl and I'm not this girl. And then all of a sudden I'm like, I don't even know these people. What am I doing? And you're losing your center center point. And I also think that people need to go through that. A lot of times people think that the stuff that didn't go right in their life was a mistake. And I don't think it's a mistake because I don't think there's any other way around it.

I don't even look at it like a problem. It's like, that's just the way it has to go. Have you ever been in love yes you're currently single currently single looking back at past relationship is relationships is there anything that you have looked for of something of like a theme of what you want to work on within yourself moving forward? That's a hot question. I don't know yet because I haven't gotten, I never really got to the part of relationship that was the smooth sailing part I have a feeling when I do I'm gonna have a lot to work on but I'll be excited to work

on it because it won't be that incredibly fundamental stuff of like how do we how do we stay together you know like i'm always supremely impressed by couples that i know who are having a hard time but haven't even considered breaking up that's hot like that to me is the hottest someone complains about their girlfriend or their wife and you're and you're like you start to allude to them wanting to go somewhere else and like what are you talking about no i'm not going anywhere else we're just having a hard time um and i i have a feeling that um i'm going to be ready to cop to a little bit of intellectual control issues on only on an intellectual side like I can be I can be I'm trying to be a little more heart

overhead but I can be a little heady and I think it's cool to say to someone this is my thing this is what I'm going to work on and I love the idea of sharing that with someone and them saying you're doing it again and you go I'm doing it again sorry what is your dating style like and how has it evolved like what are you like i i don't know i don't date that that much i look at it like this dating is no longer a codified activity for me it doesn't exist in any kind of it's it's not patterned anymore i quit like six years ago, so I don't drink anymore. I don't have the liquid courage. How do you feel about that?

How has that changed your dating life? You have to be honest. You have to express yourself. You have to be really glaringly honest. Here's who I am. Here's what I like. Here's what makes me nervous. Here's what I reject as an idea

in relationship I don't know about you know you have to express your anxieties you can't you can't just walk over them by drinking you have to be like here's what I'm anxious about and when someone in life accommodates your anxiety that's bonding right kind of cutting past the the surface level bullshit and being like can we connect on a way that feels cozy and like we know each other past just like hey so like that's right where did you grow up for yeah well you're done with giving the um the free trial yes there comes a moment where your free trial runs out. How quickly will someone know that you're into them? It takes me a while. It takes me a while.

I think the way to my heart now as I get older is I don't know that I have like five hour dates in me. I don't have these deep excursions at a table that go into like this sort of job interview vibe. I would rather have someone, I'll be honest with you. I've thought about this before. I would love someone to say, hey, I'm coming over to your house for an hour and a half. I'm bringing my laptop. Just need the Wi-Fi code. I'll be on the couch.

I'm not trying to take up all your space. I have a really good feeling about you. I don't want to do the thing where I start to make you feel claustrophobic because I really have a good feeling about you. Give me the Wi-Fi code. I'll eat one of your yogurts. Talk to me when you want to talk to me. I'd be like, I want to do that.

Do you know how many people are going to DM you and be like, John, can I have the Wi-Fi code? I'm going to just come over and eat your that just for i mean but but i actually think more people would find love sooner if it was less intense exposure for shorter periods of time but more frequently does settling down freak you out? Nope. This is the part that always shocks people. They go, you don't want to get married. Of course I want to get married. I'm just, you're not going to see me go on a battery of dates with different people.

I am a pocket listing. I'm not really on, what is it, the MLS? All the heavy lifting is done in my learning what I need to learn. And just in terms of entering in a relationship, I can't wait for someone to be mad at me because I said that I would take the dry cleaning in and they were going to until I said I would, but then I didn't. And if you're going to tell me that you're going to take the dry cleaning, you have to do that because I would love that. I would love that because that would suggest that we're into something deep, meaningful and secure. It goes back to what you said, your friends.

You're like, OK, so you're going to leave. They're like, fuck, no, like we're in this. Nothing's hotter to me than conflict resolution. Conflict resolution. I am horny for conflict resolution. In the middle of an argument. We're having an argument. And I go, wait.

I do do that. I did do that. I'm sorry. You're right. I didn't. Nope, you're right. I didn't get it. I do do that. I'm sorry. You're right. I didn't... Nope, you're right. I didn't get it.

I do do that. I'm sorry. What's something that is currently keeping you up at night? What's something that is currently keeping me up at night? Metaphorically keeping me up at night. Yeah. whether i should put out a whole record as my next release or song at a time i can't tell put a record out you get a week comes and goes put a song at a time out and you get repeated shots repeated looks at the ball. So why wouldn't you do that?

But I sleep pretty. What's that? So why wouldn't you do that? Do a song. I think I'd probably put a song at a time out. I think. I feel like that feels right. I think song at a time is right for this next record.

Like I would love a record personally so I can just binge it, like a little Netflix moment. But I get what you're saying is like you get to kind of. Yeah, I'm not on a label anymore and so that kind of keeps me up at night that the next thing I do would seem to be would seem to be I hope it was small enough that a camera couldn't catch it you literally go I'm not with a label anymore oh yeah yeah that was badly timed That was badly timed. What's up, bitch? I'm not with the label anymore. Can I also get a nail file? Can I get a nail file and say, I'm not with the label anymore? No, sorry.

I'm deeply concerned about anything being on this dark sweater. Oh, looking good. Thank you. Not being on a label feels a little bit like the next thing I do. I have to prove myself can you explain what are how is your um writing going like you write everything i write everything i mean that part's really fun looking back on it to have 100 ownership of the songs i've written but it's i mean it's hugely time consuming. Yeah. Hugely time consuming. And as you get older, time gets more valuable, which makes this, you know, this deep diving that I do feel a little harder because no matter how old you get, this stuff still takes a year to write.

Yeah. You know, when you're one guy and you want to sound like you're five guys, you've got to be yourself five different ways. And you can't do that all in one day. So the way you make music that sounds really complex is to hit it repeatedly on different days with different mindsets, which takes a very long time. Very long time. You write a whole song and you'll go oh i only needed that one verse which is actually the chorus to this thing and that dies and then this moves over to here and i would never do it any other way i'd rather not put a record out than fall off in that way and

when you're saying this like are you go to a recording i go to a recording studio every day nine to five i I have a job. Without it, I would fall apart. How many people are in that studio with you? One or two. Wow. It's just me and an engineer and an assistant sometimes. Guitar tech comes in and out.

And I go home. I think about what I did that day, how I can make it better. I'm always writing. I bring a new thing in. Is this a thing? No. Is this a thing? No. Is this a thing? Yes. Actually, no. Is this a thing? Yes. Actually, hell yes. They're all different experiences. And when you win, you go home feeling like a God. Did anyone see what I just brought to life today i cannot believe i still have it i still have it

this is incredible this is incredible and then you have to go write another one you go write another one and you're stuck in the same slog that every other song was and you go i'm garbage i don't have it anymore i'm out i'm done and you'll find another one i'm on top of the world sometimes i'll write a song and it'll be really good and i'll go just don't find another one. I'm on top of the world. Sometimes I'll write a song and it'll be really good. And I'll go, just don't write another one for two or three days. Just relax because you're going to only be as happy as the last thing that frustrated you. Right. You know, what does it like, what does it feel like to be on stage performing in front of thousands and thousands of people? It's its own dimension. It's its own own dimension i will go on record as saying i'm really different than most musicians in that i don't and i'm gonna have to finish this thought because it's gonna

sound a little scary if i if i don't i don't feed off the energy of the crowd i it is not a drug to me you hear people say when the lights go down, you hear that noise. It's like comes to me like a drug. And I know that's how most people feel. That's not how I feel. Every night before I go on stage, I go, okay, all right, here we go. Because I'm a little nervous to do that. Not that I don't think I'm going to be any good at it, but just the act of it is foreign. And i'll get on stage okay all right and then somewhere in the middle of the first song i'm gone i'm gone having the time of my life the one thing people don't understand about that job the entire time i'm up there i am worried that they're

not having as good a time as I could give them. Not worried to the point where it's unpleasant, but it is a constant consideration. Do they want this song? Or do they want a different song? Are they waiting for this song to be over? Or do they want another song? Am I playing, like, if I had to make a set list right now, I'd hate it because I have so much music from so many different areas of music

that I don't know what anybody's exactly wants. So I have to start writing a set list that would disappoint people equally and satisfy them equally. And so I only want people to go, that was great. I only want them to be happy. So I spent a lot of time while I'm playing going like, do they want this one? And the answer is yeah man they want those songs but while i'm playing it's a very strange mix of like hyper confidence and like the person i really am which is like i hope you like it like as i'm like ascending through through through the cosmos playing guitar i'm like i don't know if you like this one or not, but I hope you do. It is the holidays.

This is a holiday special. I've never done this before. Are you a New Year's resolution kind of guy? Vaguely. I don't, I also think like, I've done well enough in my life that I don't have to like overhaul everything as I go through.

Yeah, I'm a New Year's resolution guy. Are you asking me what that might be do you have one no not yet I'm gonna come up with that on vacation this is part maybe of the new year's resolution which is to just do things that are a little uncharacteristic what you find uncharacteristic every once in a while. And so this is really me going like, okay, this is out of character and that's okay. I know it's out of character. It's going to be okay.

If I say a thing that the news cycle picks up and gives me a headache for two or three days, I know I'm going to be okay. So there might actually be something that exists that I didn't see coming. That's really nice for people to go. Oh, I never really heard him talk in long form, you know, so we're kicking off your New Year's resolution with you coming on Call Her Daddy. Yeah.

Okay. You're going to kill me. Okay. I begged you. This is okay. I begged John. Yeah. I know there's a guitar here on the floor. To bring his guitar.

Yes. More because, you know, I love the Daddy Gang. Everyone listening, watching, I love you. Selfishly, I need you to play just a couple things. I get it. You want to watch me do the thing I just talked about for an hour? Yes. Okay.

Get the guitar. Let's go. Here we go. It's not a silly little moment It's not the storm before the calm This is the deep and dying breath This love that we've been working on and on Can't seem to hold you like I want to So I can hold you in my arms

Nobody's gonna come and save us We've pulled too many false alarms We're going down And you can see it too We're going down and you know that we're doomed my dear we're slow dancing

in a burning room I was the one you always dreamed of You were the one I tried to draw How dare you say it's nothing to me Baby, you're the only light I ever saw I make the most of all the sadness You know you'd be

a bitch because you can you try to hit me just to hurt me so you leave me feeling dirty cause you can't understand we're going down you can see it too we're going down

and you know that we're doing. My dear, we're slow dancing in a burning room. Oh, go cry about it, why don't you? Go cry about it, why don't you? Oh, go cry about it, go cry about it, Why don't you Oh go Cry about it Go cry about it Go cry about it now Oh my dear

We're slow dancing In a burning room Oh yeah yeah yeah Oh no no In a burning room Don't you think We ought to know By now Oh, no, no, we're not burning, no Don't you think we ought to know by now? Don't you think we should have learned somehow? Don't you think we ought to know by now, by now?

Don't you think we should have learned somehow? I don't want to burn I don't want to burn Burn, burn, burn, burn, I don't want to burn and burn and burn and burn and down. My dear, we're slow dancing in a burning room. Thank you very much. Wow. Thank you.

I have no words. Thank you. It's not like, there's like this guitar solo stuff that I do in the song, but on an acoustic, I just have to be like. No, it's fine. We can use that line in Georgia. We love. I am driving up 85 in the kind of morning that lasts all afternoon.

I'm just stuck inside the gloom. Give me that one. Do you know who says? I think I've heard it. It goes, who says I can't get stoned turn off the lights and the telephone me in my house alone who says i can't get stoned who says i can't take time and meet all the girls in the county line wait on fate sun. Oh, I did it wrong. It's okay. Don't you see the cheat of having a guitar?

Yeah. Do you do this before you have sex with someone? No, I do it after sometimes. No, you should never play guitar to have sex with someone. But a little naked guitar playing after is very memorable. With a little gut hanging over. Sitting on the end of the bed, a little gut hanging over. Sitting on the end of the bed,

little gut hanging over. You know? It's nice. I don't think anyone is staring at your gut, John. I like the way people look when they fold all up all weird when they sit up. No matter who you are, you look weird when you sit up.

And it's cute. You know what I mean? You look great right now. I have a shirt on. But people, everyone, no matter who you are, you sit up. Of course. It's great. We're humans. great right now. I have a shirt on, but people, everyone, no matter who you are, you sit up. Of course.

It's great. We're humans. We have skin. Yeah, and after you're all done, everyone just looks sort of like dopey in a cool way. Okay.

So, yeah, this is actually when I came up with, I came up with who says I can't get stoned? I think I was in bed, a little stoned on a bed

and it was after having some fun and that's when an acoustic guitar is great. Says I can't get stoned. I think I was in bed, a little stoned on a bed. And it was after having some fun. And that's when an acoustic guitar is great. It's so lame to do it before. So you're telling me that a special someone got to watch you create a line. I think so. In pro. Damn.

Can you sing Daughters? Yes, I can sing Daughters. And Daughters, I think it might have been on this guitar. I wrote that in 2003. I was in New Zealand or Australia, and I was in the shower when I came up with it and got out of the shower naked and skipped the next thing I had to do, which was a radio interview.

I was like, I can't do the radio interview. I have to write this song. Because it was the cyclical. As soon as I broke, because, you know, which was a radio interview. I was like, I can't do the radio interview. I have to write this song. Because it was the cyclical. As soon as I broke, because, you know, it was like, Fathers, be good to your daughters. Daughters will love like you do. You know, that was interesting. And then when I came up with the circle of,

Girls become lovers who turn into mothers. And then I came up with, So mothers be good to your daughters too. That whole swirl, I was like, that's something. Like the geometry of that. It seems like a lot of your songwriting is happening when you're naked. Because a lot of things, yes. Yes.

In the shower a lot. I want to put a microphone in the shower. But what I like about Daughters is that for all the tracks people use for songs, and I love songs with a lot of tracks, but this is one of the songs where the whole song is on the guitar. This is the whole song of Daughters. That's the song. It's like pressing play on, except for the shaker.

I know a girl. She puts the color inside of my world. But she's just like a maze where all of the walls are continually changed. And I've done all I can to stand on her steps with my heart in my hands. Now I'm starting to see that maybe it's got nothing to do with me. Fathers, be good to your daughters. Daughters will love like you do girls become lovers who turn into mothers so mothers be good to your daughters too oh yeah

now the thing that people got wrong about that song Was that I'm not really talking to five I'm not a 24 year old guy going like Hey older man It's about the frustration Of wanting to have a relationship With someone who can't Because of upbringing

So if you've ever met someone You're like oh I can't Fix this particular Part of your operating system someone, you're like, oh, I can't, I can't fix this particular part of your operating system. And then you're so desperate because you wish you could have that person that it really is a leap of logic to say, you're so upset that you're going like, stop. You know what I'm saying? Like, I wanted this girl so badly to be, to be able to receive my love. Whose ass do I have to kick and i think it got

read that's what happens when you work metaphorically as people misunderstand it a lot and so i think people thought that i was just like well i'm 24 let me tell dads how to raise their daughters but it's like a big like first dance wedding song and i think it works both ways and as i get older it works a little easier as both ways i just didn't think of 24 it didn't make sense to some people at a 24 year old. Wait, now I didn't get that obviously. And now I completely get it where it's like, oh, you're kind of being like, hey, I love this girl so much, but she's a little fucked up because her dad did it or the mom.

Yeah, it's this idea that it's a little selfish, you know? Yeah. Like, hey, I kind of wanted to love this person. Asshole. Right. You know? It doesn't make it. It's emotional.

It's like it sounds logical, but it's mostly emotional. What is the one? Okay, I'm going to forget the name because it's not. Give me keywords. It's fine. Not broken heart, but it's like not dancing with a broken heart. Dreaming with a broken heart. Dreaming with a broken heart. Such a good one.

It's on the piano, but... It's weird to do on the guitar. Sounds exactly the same. It's up there, but it's like... It's like I have to really sing it. The waking up is the hardest part. I figured out how to sing it now. You roll out of bed and down on your knees.

And for a moment you can hardly breathe. Wondering was she really here Is she standing in my room No she's not Cause she's gone, gone, gone, gone, gone When you're dreaming with a broken heart That giving up is the hardest part

Isn't that what it is? I think so She takes you in With her crying eyes Is it giving? I don't remember And all at once You start to Is that the same lyrics as the

I don't know but I'm crying All at once you start to say goodbye. Wondering, would you stay my love? And will you ever wake up by my side? No, she won't. Cause she's gone, gone, gone, gone And it's like How about being old enough now that I can't remember some of those songs?

And me picturing myself driving home from a break I'm like, John! Right Do I have to fall asleep With roses in my hand That's right Do I have to fall asleep with roses in my hand? That's right. Do I have to fall asleep with roses in my hand? Yeah.

Then it's way up. Do I have to fall asleep with roses in my, roses in my hand? And would you get them if I did no you won't because you're gone gone gone

gone gone right and then it goes, just the verse one more time. When you're dreaming with a broken heart The waking up is the hardest part I haven't played that song in a while. The waking up is the hardest part. I haven't played that song in a while. That song got me through so much heartbreak. Yeah, I did.

I woke up one day. I was making Continuum. I woke up and I had a dream about someone. And I had a crush on them the whole rest of the day because I had had a dream about them do you still have dreams where you wake up and you loved someone and now you have a crush and you're all emotional oh yeah you're thinking about them it's the best feeling in the world as you get older but I went to the studio and they were working on something else and I went and sat in this big reverb chamber and closed the door and I was like I've got to work on this song and

that's all about the pain of having a dream about someone that you don't know but have a crush on or that you know and have a crush on for me I didn't really know this person but just had a crush on them I'll never say who uh because it's random it's very random it's not yeah waking up is the hardest part wow yeah because you're like oh john i want to i'm gonna speak for the masses that you just made a lot of people's holidays oh cool it's truly like it's so fucking cool to see uh-huh okay i mean keep talking i yeah this is a good way to end the show i'm really happy that you came on the show we got deep we had fun we're friends now which is fun i have a new friend thank you for sharing your location with me kazzy was like he does that yeah i'm excited um no you brought out a side of

yourself that i really appreciate you sharing because it is very cool to see someone that is so huge in their own right, but to get to sit with you and hear just a little bit of the personal side of you makes this even cooler. Thank you. Thank you for being kind to me, good to me, and making me feel comfortable. I'm now a fan of the show. I don't know if there's an initiation into the Daddy Gang,

but I will do whatever it takes. I think you have to look into the camera and just say, Hi, Daddy Gang. Hi, Daddy Gang. Woo! John Mayer, thank you so much for coming on Call Her Daddy. Thank you for having me, Alex. It was a pleasure.

So much fun. Have yourself a merry little Christmas. Let your heart be light. From now on, our troubles will be out of sight and have yourself a merry little Christmas now. Woo! John fucking Mayer! Woo! Thank you very much.

You might have to edit that one. I didn't edit that one. I didn't nail that bridge.