Call Her Daddy - Kate Hudson: A Year Without Men

Episode Date: May 22, 2024

Join Alex in the studio for an interview with Kate Hudson. Kate talks about her childhood, being a prude in high school, and how she personally handled mean girls. She opens up about falling in love very young and getting married in her early twenties. Kate also shares her opinion about why she still has love for her exes. She explains how to let go of resentment and encourages the Daddy Gang to take accountability for their part in relationships too. Kate talks about how there’s nothing wrong with living life on your terms and how to feel confident breaking the norm. Then she gives advice on how to catch a guy being shady, what to do when you find out your boyfriend has a burner phone, and how to navigate when you and your partner’s sex drives aren’t syncing up. Finally, she talks about going a year without men and breaking toxic patterns to find independence and security in her relationships. Enjoy!

what is up daddy gang it is your founding father alex cooper with call her daddy hi hi kate hudson excuse me if i have like these like disgusting cough episodes oh are you sick i am no i am i had that lingering like three week uh Uh huh. You came here to get me sick. If you get sick, it wasn't me. No, it was you. I am not contagious. You came here to like fuck this bitch. I'm going to get her really sick and leave and give her no tea. No, it's going to be great. okay so you're kind of like in an entire new phase of your life right now with this new venture of

music congratulations I know well only in public right you know what I mean like so I mean music's been in my life my whole life okay um whether it was me or whether it was with like my exes partners um but yeah no I finally was like you know what if I don't share it I'll just regret it and that's what I think is interesting when you think of like Kate Hudson everyone's like actress is it terrifying to come out with music or are you like excited? Are you nervous? I think it was terrifying, which is why I didn't do it. And I'm an Aries, like I'm supposed to be fearless. And I was like, why am I so terrified to share my writing really, you know, and I, I think, I think it's because when I grew

up and, and, and sort of was young and became well-known and, you know, I got, I got famous young. So I was 20 years old. And, um, at that time, like you don't switch careers. There's no, like there was no, oh, you're going to be a movie star and then you're going to be, and then you can be a rock star. It's like, no, stay in one lane. Everyone tells you to stay in one lane. Don't break what's not broken. So I kind of had this thing where it was like, the one thing I loved the most was going to take a, was just going to take a back seat. And so my dream was like, okay, well I can do musicals and then maybe that's how I incorporate music into my life. And

then I, you know, it just, time gets away from you and, you know, kids and things and COVID happened. And I'm like, I'm sitting on hundreds and hundreds of songs that I've never like, I'm so scared to put that out, but, but why? And so I had to kind of tackle that. And then I was just like, fuck it. If I don't do it, then I will be on my deathbed and it will be a great regret of mine. So, well, I think think it's incredible you're doing it also because you have a really good voice oh thanks like no but I think sometimes like to be honest I think people are always like oh god another fucking actress is gonna now try to do a singing career or vice versa like yeah the singer goes to try to act I'm listening to you and I'm like oh you have a fucking great voice it's funny because I'm not like i don't i don't that's been part of my

hesitation is i don't see my the instrument as like a technician i think there's certain technicians of the instrument that are fucking brilliant and you listen to them and you're like whoa they can do runs for days and they can hit certain notes and things like i never saw myself as a technician of the instrument so like when I'm writing music I write I write for my voice or I write what I'm feeling so that always for me was like oh you know if I can't hit that note then then what does that mean you know and so I kind of also had to just let it go let that go and well I also think what you were saying is your lyrics like as I was like going through your music I'm like oh so much of your lyrics

are about love and your relationships and heartbreak and moving on and knowing when to move on and like Romeo I feel like is like a great summer bop I'm like you like yeah i love oh my god i love i think it's a i think it's a vibe romeo so much it's a good vibe romeo it makes me happy that song just is like i just want to like put it on in the car in the summer yeah yes i love that that's the one you mentioned but then i also love that you go to the complete opposite side and it's like love ain't easy and i'm like you're just like flexing your vocals i'm like holy fucking shit it's like a beautiful i guess ballad or like and it's gorgeous but so much of listening to it i felt like i got to know you a little bit more and i want to talk a little bit about that today because i'm like okay uh-oh when you were growing

up how was sex and dating discussed in your household? In our house? Yeah. Oh, I mean, I have very open, you know, progressive parents-ish, progressive-ish parents. Those were things that were always very open. Okay. And I think part of why we were never super rebellious was because there was no mystery around those things. So, you know, even like partying, like my parents loved to have a good time. And we grew up seeing them enjoy their life, laugh with friends, be, you know, talk about naughty things sometimes, overhear things that were like hmm what are they talking about right um but this mystery of like connection and and why we connect with people was never something that was like hidden that we didn't talk about you know i think that's a good point because i feel like not to shit on the kids that's parents were so strict but i had a similar

upbringing where like my parents were like very open about things so i was never like i want to go experiment and do all the shit behind their back because fuck you you're making me stay home i felt like i was lucky to have that but i can see a lot of kids where you can go the opposite way because if your parent tells you not to do something you naturally want to do it sometimes yeah so if you have people that are talking openly about especially i think for women about like not actual sex, like your mom's not like, Kate, let me tell you about this. But when you're, well, did she? No. I mean, not when I was young. What were you like with guys growing up? Like, were you confident? Totally boy crazy. Really? Oh yeah. I'm still boy crazy. You are? Yeah. Yeah. Boys are fun. I have a good boy

right now. I have a really awesome boy, but I mean, I, I, you know, I'm doing this show right now where I play the president of a basketball team. So I'm basically surrounded by men all day. And you're just happy? I went home to Danny. I was like, honey, I'm having the time of my life. I love you. And, and I, and I am very committed, but, oh, I feel so lucky. It's like I was born for this job. Um, but, uh, I was very boy crazy. Okay. And, um, but I was also a very prude, like, like, like love to have fun, love to be flirty super prude really yeah what was your personality in high school I didn't want to be there why because I was like ready to like I was like ready to have my own apartment somewhere in the world like I was like in ninth grade like

oh just someone give me like a martini and a cigarette and like some book on a balcony in Paris. Like, I don't know. I can see it a little bit in my daughter. It's just like I wasn't into the high school party scene. I wanted to be in theater. I wanted to be singing. I wanted to be like traveling the world. I was like ready. Got it.

To me, high school felt like it was holding me back. I get that. You know, and I was like, oh, you're just you're just holding me back. You know, now I look back at high school and I feel like it was like one of the great experiences of my life. Right. Right. But I was definitely like the mom of the bunch. Oh, OK. Yeah. Like when all my friends are partying, like I was designated driver like I would take care of everybody I didn't expect that yeah total everybody thinks I'm a total party I was the opposite yeah so you're always dd'ing still to this day always well I mean you know not now but like back then I was very straight were you

bullied at all straight like were you totally really totally yeah because look when you're young if you're confident in something it's hard like people don't really like it yeah you know so like I remember I was like I knew exactly what I wanted to do I was very focused I wanted to be in theater I wanted to be like working and doing things and there's a lot of girls who just rolled their eyes at that. Yeah. And so, yeah, I wouldn't say bullied, but there was a lot of gossipy, like talk behind back type stuff.

That makes sense. Where girls are just like, she's fucking annoying. And then you're like, what? Because I know what I want to do. And like, you know, I guess like because I wasn't, I think girls who don't party, you know, I can sometimes get that too. It's like, oh, you're too good to like get drunk with us. And it's like, no, I actually just don't want to like do a keg stand like on with you right now. Like I don't want to get wasted, but I'm happy to like hold your hair when you're throwing up.

I don't. So I was like that girl and it would I think sometimes bother girls I get that it didn't bother me right you're not judging them for doing the keg stand no you've like got the hair tie ready yeah and I just didn't I just wasn't I wasn't like that but I think when you're at a place in your life where you're like don't feel like you're in the same position as people like mentality wise it's hard to fit in anywhere like if you're like ready to move on and everyone's like we're loving this like we're going to the tailgate tonight and you're like stab me yeah I think that I think these like so young like social structure clicky like lord of the flies type like things that happen are actually really important um how you deal with them at school and then how you deal with them at home with your family and

like how they're supported yeah i think are so important like i feel like it's good to kind of have a little bit of friction when you're growing up and people saying mean things sometimes it's good to kind of have a little bit of friction when you're growing up and people saying mean things sometimes it's like oh you know you you kind of need a little bit of that to like power through it and realize like in in in retrospect to be able to reflect look back and go wow like I'm so happy that that wasn't who I am and that I had a little bit of that scarring. It's a good point. Get me, get, get you through certain things. Cause it doesn't get better. No, it does not. The world is a, I mean, human nature is quite brutal. So, so like, how do we, we you know when those small communities like

you're going to have friction right in high school right what was your friction mine was i definitely like i had a similar experience where like i was ready to get out like i knew i wanted to do all of this like i was like the video production nerd but i was also at the same time the jock so like i hid from everyone that i liked video production and I would like lie to everyone. They're like, why are you doing that for your elective every year? I'm like, I don't know. They said like, I'm good. It's so annoying, but whatever. It's easy. Like I would lie because I was embarrassed because everyone would make fun of me for like liking that shit. Right. And I was the jock. So they're like, you're the soccer girl. Like you can't be both. And kind of what we talked

about at the beginning of this episode, it's like you can never be both. And I was the jock. So they're like, you're the soccer girl. Like you can't be both. And kind of what we talked about the beginning of this episode, it's like, you can never be both. And I think especially for women, it's like, you definitely can't be both. That can't be possible. And I was insecure. Like I was super awkward and gawky. Aren't we all? And like, it wasn't great, but I do look back. And in the moment I was like, fuck my fucking life. I need to get to college. Then when I got to college, I was like, I'm ready to go to New York city. Get me the fuck out of here. Like, I feel like at every stage of my life in those like scholastic moments, I was like, I'm ready to leave. I'm not meant to be here. But then I look back and I'm like, I learned so much about myself. I know. And then you kind of look back too. And you're like, oh, and then you had these great,

like big, fun, awesome moments. And. Sometimes I look, there's certain people too that were just like always wonderful. Like, you know, you kind of, this girl Hillary and Jessica, and like I look at these girls, I'm like, God, I wonder what they're doing now. Like they must be like the greatest mother of all time because they were so like even

and they had kind to everybody and like helping you organize your own thoughts like did you get your homework done like you're like oh yeah oh shit I you know there's so it's like I don't know you look back at that little mic like it's like a microcosm right what you know the sort of no you're right it's like sometimes I think we have a hard time pinpointing like the positives in situations like I found an old laptop from college and I had some like fucked up shit happen to me in college and I looked back at like this really specific time in my life as like negative and I remember opening my laptop and like almost getting so

emotional because I'm like I had the best time like I fucking love these girls and I love these people and I love so like when there's something negative that happens it's hard to remember all the positive but most well our brain does sort of lean yeah you know more to the unfortunately yeah to the negative yeah true you know tell me about your first love my first love yeah my first I mean my first real love was my ex-husband. I was young. I met him when I was 20. I actually met him when I was 18. Okay. 19. 19. And he was just not a very nice rock star type.

I remember thinking, God, he was so mean. And then I met him again at 20, and he wasn't that mean. I must have caught him on a bad a bad night or something um and yeah i mean first real love of my life how soon did you date to then get married oh gosh it was a whirlwind it was we were engaged in four months and married at at nine months and then you know and then like three years then i wanted to have a baby and we had Ryder and and then and then it kind of started to do that downward spiral right the classic the classic we all know it how did you know you were ready for marriage at 21 there wasn't an ounce of me that

wasn't like I didn't question it for a second really yeah we were we were so connected and and and Chris taught me so much about love and connection and you know it was just a wonderfully passionate relationship did anyone around you be like Kate please don't get married right now no like my the people I live in let people make mistakes, you know? Okay. So your mom didn't care. She's like... Yeah, and by the way, not a mistake.

I look back at my entire, you know, life at this point, and I'm like, I actually feel like I might have gotten it right, you know? Like... Love. There's this sort of construct that we're supposed to do it a certain way, which I understand because I really believe in the unit and I think it's what's missing right now. But I,

I, I do believe that a unit can exist differently than this sort of like very kind of religious concept of like marriage and male, female relationship like I really believe that a unit can be even if someone is alone in their life and hasn't met the love of their life that they could have a best friend that they live close together and they have they can raise their children together and like have values inside of that that can be really important for children. So like, you know, for me, having the means and the ability to choose to be more healthy in relationships means, it would be a much more challenging thing. But inside of that, just because you're not supposed to be with someone doesn't mean that you can't create a big, beautiful experience.

Totally. I don't know how I've been able to do it, but it's like we just do it. All of us. What would you say? Because like I think you're right and I love how you describe that I think so many people can be judgmental if you don't follow like the traditional route like it's like 21 is too young but then like 30 is too old it's like you can't fucking win as a woman what do you what was like the best and then the hardest parts of like being married in your early 20s I just like jump in the deep end of everything. So it's sort of like, I mean, the best thing was that I, in a time that could have been probably not very grounded, I've always sought home. I've always sought, I like my cozy, you know, I'm a homebody. And I've always wanted a big family. I've always wanted to work hard and have a big, fun, crazy life. But like, you know, I am a I am a I like to be home. And so even when I was young,

I longed for that. Yeah, family connect family connection. I grew up like that so um and so when I met Chris it's like when my career was taking off it was also a time that you know could have been a whirlwind and instead I was in this very grounding loving relationship right like you had that stability even though like externally it looked all chaos because your life is like you're thriving. You're a movie star. You get to go home to this guy and you're like, this is what I prefer. Like a cozy, great vibe. about how when your marriage ended, you still had like so much love for this person. And I'm wondering if you have any advice for women listening of like, maybe someone just went through a breakup and they're still so in love with their ex, but they know they need to move on. Like how the fuck do you do that? Let's be very clear. Like if I didn't have children,

I probably would never speak to them. Stop. I'm kidding. No. you know, the thing is like, I, I, I don't know if it has something. It just, I guess it's just a, uh, it's an attachment thing. I guess it's like how we attach to pain or why something isn't working or what the expectation is of what you wanted from the relationship. And then that expectation letting you down and then people suffer because they've sort of put such an expectation on what something's supposed to look like versus my choice through life is just like opening being more open and like and that doesn't mean that it's without pain and sadness

and working through stuff and reflecting and taking accountability. But like, and I'll come back to the accountability part because I think that's the most important thing. But at the end of the day, you know, I believe you love, you know, someone. If you love them once, you really love them in some way forever.

Even if you can't stand them, if you really did, if you really loved them, if it was pure, it wasn't like coming from some place unhealthy. You'll love them through anything, you know, maybe not romantically, but that will always, always be there. And I, and I do believe that like it shifts just like friendships shift, you know, my best friendships have gone through times where we are like, don't talk 40 times a day to not seeing each other for a year. But there's a, but there's always that kind of foundation. I believe that with great loves of your life. And I will always, even in the, in the hardest time to be able to see the people that I've been with and that I've shared intimacy with, like in a loving way.

I also, I also believe that that's a choice. Like I choose to do that. You know, I do that because I think it's more peaceful for me, which makes it more peaceful for my children. But I think that the biggest thing about relationships and, you know, when they end is like how you're being accountable. And I think most people hold on to all the shit when they're not taking accountability for their own, own thing. You know, it's like, it doesn't matter. There's, it's always, there's always two people in the relationship. So you can't just point a finger out. You always have to look back and, you know, the old one finger and three pointed back at you.

It's a great point. I love everything you just said, because I think I had a conversation, I think it was with Camila Cabello. And she was like, yeah, like, it's tough. Like, where does the love go? Like when you break up with someone that you love so much, it's a strange thing to know. Like they're alive and they're out there and I'm here. And that's why that Gautier song was so huge. It was so like, it hit a nerve for everybody. Yes. Somebody that I used to know. You're like, God, why didn't I write that? You know, but like, yeah, I mean, it's, it's tough. But what did she, is that, that was. No, she basically just said, like, it hurts, but it's like, you know, it's not supposed to be anymore. It was,

we change constantly as people. Like I'm the same person, but a different version of myself when I was 21. Oh my God. I was madly in love. I'm not in love with him anymore, but a different version of myself when I was 21. Oh, my God. I was madly in love. I'm not in love with him anymore. But I still yes, I think you're right. I choose to know that I still have love for all of these people that I loved. I think when it ends really badly, if someone like did you fucking dirty and cheated on you and you find out and you're like, oh, my God, I think you never respect me.

Fuck that can hurt. But again, it's like, how did it get to that point? You can always look back at yourself and's like, how did it get to that point? I, you can always look back at yourself and be like, could I have done this? Or could I have done that? And sometimes they're just a piece of shit and you're like, you couldn't have done any better. I have a friend who said something really, really great, which is like, you know, when you're in something and you're going through a wave, you know, he was also talking about it kind of like a DNA strand. Like, you know, people say it's like a roller coaster, but it's more like when you're with someone for

a long time, it's like it, it's like it circulates, you know, moves. And I thought that was a very kind of a beautiful image for a long-term intimate relationship. And as it's shifting, when you start to feel yourself off balance, it's much easier for us to go out, to externalize it and go, I'm not getting this or I'm not receiving that. This is what that would look like over here. And what if I had this over there? And what i believe

happens as you get older or healthier maybe not an age thing but like is when you enter you go internal that issue or that wave or that cycle it starts to move differently yeah you're not seeking anything externally you're only really looking at it internally which can only in turn really make the relationship more intimate yeah and honestly more you know um i would say connect connective because you're not seeking it from somewhere else and then if you get to that place where you're like i I don't know if I can do this anymore. It's not coming from anything you need from the outside world. I think that the concept of accountability in relationships is like not talked about enough.

And I love that you brought up because it also gives you so much more autonomy over your own life when you actually take accountability. As opposed to being like, he did this to me. And he's like no no one can do anything to you other than like I mean unless you're in like a very very scary oh my gosh yeah like abusive put all of that aside right like if someone's making you feel a certain way like you have the ability to control your own emotions and your actions and what you're doing and how you're reacting. Yeah. And like, and like, look, you know, everybody holds their own wild card. Yeah. Right. And like, sometimes that wild card works for some people and it really doesn't for others. And if you're holding two completely different wild cards, it can get fucking

really tumultuous and wild. But if you're holding the same wild card, you know, if someone is like, hey, here's the deal. I want an open relationship. I could never be faithful to you. I'd be like, oh my God, thank you for saying that. I can't be with you. Right. But like, I have so much respect for your honesty. But if you're like, this person told me he couldn't be faithful to me, but I decided to be with this person anyway. And now we're in this tumultual relationship and I'm miserable. I'd be like, if I was my own girlfriend, I'd be like, babe, this is more about you than it is about him. Like he told you.

He was honest. He was honest. And you still rode the wave. Yeah. You're holding different wild cards. What are you up to? If you were like, great, then I'm going to do the same. Totally.

Then you guys would have a, I mean, you'd be, you know. No, it's a great point. It's like sometimes we also, I think people, and it depends on where you're at. I think health wise, it's like I, when I was younger, oh, blinders on. I'm like, he told me this. I'm like, no, he didn't. No, he didn't. He didn't say that to me.

I'm like, no, he didn't. No, he didn't. He didn't say that to me. I'm like pretending to, I'm like short-term memory. And it was because I wanted what I wanted and I wasn't listening to what was being said directly to my face. It's like, oh, you're an idiot. Like he literally told you he's cheated on his last 17 girlfriends. What'd you think was going to happen now? I'm going to change him. No, you're not. And also, you know, a lot of people, I think, find themselves in relationships where people feel insecure and they want to put people down and and you take it. And at some point, I think a lot of women I know have been in this situation. At some point, you know, you can point your finger out at them, but you can somewhat you're like why am I accepting this right like why am I here yeah yeah and and it kind of feeds that like you know push pull thing that a lot of people get very like toxically into love but no I used to love it I was like oh my god I'm alive I was like okay I'm alive and now if I like would meet someone at that point in my life I think when I got to like later in my 20s I was like I'm exhausted like absolutely get the fuck away from me if you're

like playing games but in my early 20s like it kept my heart beating I was like this is a thrill and it was just all because like I didn't want stability at that point I didn't you gotta learn right yeah you gotta be like right yeah um I have scenarios for you because you have wisdom. I'm going to give you a scenario. I want to know give you a scenario. I want to know if you would keep seeing the guy or if this would be a deal breaker. Okay. Okay.

You catch him going through your phone and he says it's because he's been, you've been distant. How long have I been with him? You've been together for eight months oh done out see you later weird so weird what about two years then maybe I'd be like okay what am I doing that's making you feel insecure and by the way you can go into my phone anytime you don't need to look at that like if I'm with someone for two years I'm not one of those people that's like why are you looking in my phone? It's like, right. What's my, like, here's my phone. I don't, I wouldn't live with secrecy or feel like I need, you know? Yeah. Have you ever caught

someone going through your phone? Oh yeah. Emails. How did you find out i could tell where there was like logins you know it was like stupid you know it was like stupid yeah which also is like bye oh like you gotta be smarter like you almost get like the ick because you're like wait like i it would have been like cooler if you were like so yeah but you're but you're i'm getting a notification yeah it's like what are you doing no clearly someone's on my yeah on my ipad or my computer whatever it's like on notification yeah it's like what are you doing no clearly someone's on my yeah on my iPad or my computer whatever it's like on my phone it's like ding someone just logged into your MacBook under your boyfriend is on your stop and did you confront did you end it it was already on the way out okay it was like it's good to know. Yeah. Have you ever gone through a phone? Oh, yeah. Are you kidding?

Especially with shady guys. Like, full on. How do you get in? Oh, girls. Any girl who says, I would never, is a liar. Oh, my God. It's my favorite hobby back in the day. I mean, at some point in your life, a girl's been like, no, I'm going to.

No. Yeah. Something's up it's one thing if something's not up then you should feel right it's just a random then you're like okay you have trust issues you gotta figure that out yeah it's one thing if like the guy is being fully shady and not telling you the truth and you're like no i need some concrete evidence don't CIA I'm gonna figure this out then you get it and then fuck yeah I've had I mean please yes it's a it's it was a fabulous game okay but when you play the game and you find things how do you handle it because most of the time they're like oh it's null and void you went through my fucking phone you crazy bitch yeah okay it doesn't matter but I'm you're out of my life like so what are we talking about yeah thank god because now i'm never gonna see you again like that's great but i'm

really like i i'm like you would have to be doing something crazy really shitty you know what i mean like oh no like you wouldn't care you're telling me one thing and doing another. And I'm not going to do that. So I'm going to find out. And then I also did do the thing, too, which is fun, where you just lie. Yeah. Where you're just like, no, I read it. I read it.

I read this. Or I know you were here. How do you know that? Because I have a friend that's the bartender and she was there and she saw you. Oh, it's so fun. I've done all of it. And that's the best is when you know they've fucked you over and then you come up with the best live all time.

And it's like, oh, my God, I'm an Olympian. And they're like sweating. God. And you're like, you know, what's really sad? I used to do this is like, I know everything. And then they'd go like pale white. And so I told you, like, I know what's really sad? I used to do this. It's like, I know everything. And then they'd go like pale white. And so I told you, like, I know everyone in New York. So when you go to the great white and you're there and you're having drinks with her, like,

what do you think I was going to do? You think I wasn't going to know? And he's like shitting his pants. Meanwhile, didn't have any friends at the great white. Just saw on his phone that he was like, meet me at the great white. But you make it up and then you get out of it unscathed but people wonder why women should rule the world because we're incredibly resourceful period it's like guys no we're gonna strategize this and by the end of it you're gonna be sweating bullets and i'm gonna leave you so the difference is we

get notifications that you're hacking into our computers we come up with lies you didn't even know we went into your fucking iphone you know guys are so funny i i i love guys so much because they're just they're quite they're very simple they're i mean not that they're not like complex and you know but like this the the the foundation of how men work isn't that challenging. It's not. They're super straightforward. True. And I think we expect them to be more complicated. Oh, we give them more credit, for sure.

Than it actually is. Half the time if they're giving you, like, if you get a weird vibe, the weird vibe is right. Like, they're cheating or they're doing, like. Yeah. Sometimes women will be like, well, maybe it's because his grandmother was not feeling well. So maybe he's been acting weird. No, no, no.

It's what you think it is. He's cheating. Yeah. Or like if there's like three burner phones, like there's a problem. You know what I mean? It's going to get weird

at some point. Like if you see a burner phone and a Dob kit, just run. It's not going to be a good ending. Right. Which has happened to a couple of friends of mine where i'm like no what do you do if you see this and i'm like oh my god babe run well first look on the on it because it's i would love to know we need the thrill you gotta know we gotta have something to talk about over dinner right or like Or like take it. Just steal it. Just like take the phone and then never talk to him again.

And then you call the number. You meet up with the girl. You get cocktails. You laugh about it. No, you have to look at it though. You're right. It's comedy because men are, sometimes men are so dense. I also love men.

And sometimes men are so simple. And they're really just showing you their cards immediately. How old are you? 29. Okay. I also love men. And sometimes men are so simple. And they're really just showing you their cards immediately. But see, you're, how old are you? 29. Okay. So you're like, see, I'm in the age where everyone's married. Okay.

And we live vicariously through our late 20s, like, or early 30s friends. Yeah. Where we're like, oh, let me tell you the story. Right. Now we're all like, you know, like it's like we're in the care. Are you are you is is is your husband going to go to the four year old's birthday party or are the girls going to this birthday? How many fucking birthday parties are there this weekend? What are we doing? Are we just staying home?

Like, it's just very normal. Now we're in the normal. We're in the we're in the raising kids phase, which is just like soccer games, baseball games, birthday parties. There's no like. There's no burner phones. No, no. And that's no.

Yeah. But sometimes we want a little burner phone. I have a friend who has someone with a burner phone. But sometimes you want a little burner phone action. So no, I think that's such a good point, though. It's like, ladies, stop ignoring the fucking signs if it's right in front of you it's probably what it looks but it's hard i know you have friends who are more dramatic than others and we all have to like let each other go through it true i just don't like when people like we know when it turns and it's

unhealthy that we need to like rally around our friends true like if something is not right and they're kind of stuck in a really unhealthy yeah and it's like not funny anymore yes when it's not funny anymore yeah then you're like okay you know what what's going on and it's almost like when the girl dinners because every all girlfriends talk about each other and it's not even like behind your back it's like oh god she's with him again like we know he's gonna cheat again and we love her to death from that when it gets to like i don't even want to fucking hear about it like you've literally exhausted all of us that's when it gets scary because you're like now you've alienated yourself and we feel bad as opposed to like jessica what are you doing with him again we can't help you you know it's like or or like support it that that's hard it gets It's that's hard. Yeah, that's hard.

OK, he's really close friends with his ex. Oh, interesting. Like how close is close? Like they get lunch, I would say. Every. Month, every other month, and they have a kid. Nope. Oh, problematic.

For me personally, for me too. If they had a kid, I'd be like, oh, this is family and we have to like bring her all in, you know? And my other thing is like, if I'm going to have dinner with her and then you're going to go have lunch with her, we're good. If we're all besties, like my best friend was my ex's ex-girlfriend hold on and when we well it's just it's not as complicated as it sounds basically i met my best friend through my ex-husband okay who used to date her oh fascinating when i was married to him i met her we became best friends got it and that was his ex and that was his ex but I but but we were we were loved each other right there was no like I'm gonna go have dinner with or lunch with my ex-girlfriend and you were included oh yeah and and she'd rather be with me than

right now with him so like that makes sense to me I agree I think it does depend sometimes on like did you meet the like did you know the ex this is fucking confusing me like did you know the person before or after like if my best friend became best friends with my ex I'd be like why the where's the fucking loyalty like you didn't know him before me I think you know what I mean okay wait wait okay here we go you mean if you're bestie I'm dating a guy okay right my best friend meets him likes him whoo we break up and she stays friends with him odd it depends I guess it depends how it ended how it ended it depends he ruined my life he cheated on me i mean it's tough that's a tough one because i think it would be like you know it it also depends on if you like is she kind of into him right that's fair you can kind of feel when it's right

or when it isn't no i think i think it's also just about like respect like communicate with your fucking friends if you're staying friends with your girl's ex and you guys are like in love well okay i'm gonna give you a scenario okay you're not friends with this girl you're you've you have mutual friend groups okay okay mutual friend groups they you know run into each other here and there at a party oh hey nice to see you like oh good she breaks up with her boyfriend okay i don't know whenever six months year later you end up with the boyfriend boyfriend does she have a right to be mad at you okay you said the only moment I hang out with her is like in big friend groups.

Yeah. She's she's around. Like like like maybe you share a friend. We've never gone to a lunch. You don't text. You don't know. Oh my God. She can't be mad.

Okay. Absolutely not. Yeah. Well, there's a lot of people who would say otherwise. And I'm like, that's crazy. That's networking. How are we supposed to meet anyone? I don't know you.

Right. Like if you can't be mad at me no that's crazy yeah that's fucking crazy it's it's if it's your best friend that's it that's it it's all that matters yeah well if it's like even even a like a close friend a close friend of course yeah then you can have a conversation of like this is also tough where it's like it's awkward it's like but like girls who throw shade to girls that like are dating there but they don't know them i i think that's i think that's weird no you gotta move on and i also think if you don't have their phone number you owe them literally nothing i agree okay okay i like that we're we're moving on he has an extremely high sex drive and is trying to go

every day twice a day oh i mean i'm not mad at it first of all twice i mean it'd be one thing if it's like four times a day right you'd be like this is like we're exhausted and like this is like kind of weird because like what happens when I have to like leave for a week? True. Like is this like – Like is this something you need every day regardless of whether I'm here or not? And it also depends on, I mean, his age because it would sort of determine whether or not he was – Just going through it.

Yeah, or like if he was young, like that would make sense. If he's like 40 something men's libidos kind of go down at late 20s right so he's like a sex addict so like if his libido is that high it's like what are you on literally it's like i always i always say it's about women especially as women get older there's sort of this concept around women that they should become less sexual as they get older. But the reality is, is that women, as we get older, our, our libidos get more intensified to a certain age than men's. So it's sort of like this made up thing, right? That women, as we get older are supposed to be right. Like died out. Like we're not even having sex.

We're not sexual. Yeah, when it's literally the opposite. Yeah. So somewhere down the line, men didn't really want women to be very sexy as they got older. Right. I think. So they kind of made it so like, oh, no, like if you're no longer, you know, mating for us. Right, right right then you should just go over here so true when in reality it's like women into their 40s sometimes 50s are like very much sexual yeah did i read this correctly that your therapist once told you to take a break from men for a year

yeah where did you where did i say that. I took like a full year off. You did it? It was, I was like, what? Wait. I couldn't flirt. No. Yeah. None of it. But it was great. How old were you when you did this? 30 something. I just, I was like at that place where I was like, I don't want to keep repeating any patterns anymore. I have a great therapist who was like, I can help you, but you have to like do it.

Right. You got to like get off the sauce, Kate. He's like, get off the sauce. And well, my thing is I always get distracted, you know. Right. You like to flirt. You like boys. You said you love boys.

I just love the, I love the, you know, like, ooh, this is fun. I'm going to text this person but it was really interesting because it he took me like basically I was like okay well I guess I'm I can't even text guys you couldn't flirt if a guy came up to you you're like just not interested yeah I mean I could talk to them but I I was like there's no I couldn't give them my number so I'd be like they'd be like kind of your number I'd be like you know no like I'm not no I'm not in I'm not there right now but it was strangely empowering because it got very uncomfortable for me in the beginning like the first couple months I was like you know my mojo was like I was just like oh god I was like I might I was like you know you know just felt like I hadn't I I was like what what am I doing right what I I'm not like

not me yeah it just was it's not fun you know and so I was like well and then because we were going through various specific type of therapy, it was really about like figuring out certain things that were happening. Yeah. And then I had this one sort of breakthrough that was very emotional that I don't think I would have been able to access if I had any distraction. So like it allowed me to see things much more clearly. And then within six months, I was like, I didn't care about my phone. I didn't care about like, if I was going to go out and meet my girlfriends, I wasn't like that thing where I'm like oh I wonder if so-and-so would be there or yeah like oh we should maybe call up so-and-so and then do that you know there was no desire for me to be doing anything that had anything to do with potential you know flirtation right so um then when I was in with you know doing thatation. Right. So, um, then when I was in with, you know, doing that and I remember

my therapist a year later was like, okay, you can, I think you can flirt again. I was like, what? I can flirt. And he's like, yeah. I was like, what does that mean? How do I flirt? I like forgot. And then I remember like all these guys would start texting and I'd be like, I didn't have the same attachment to it anymore. It just, it just went away. It was like, I didn't get that. Like, Ooh, you know, I, I was just like, Oh no, no, it just didn't have the same like pull.

Interesting. It sort of became, and then the guys that I would normally have been like, ooh, was like, nope. That's incredible. It was pretty amazing. So you lasted the year. Oh, yeah. I'm very disciplined. Damn.

Yeah. Yeah. It was good. One year. One year and – yeah. It's pretty incredible. I didn't know I was longer because then I was so happy single. I was single for like three and a half years. Being's pretty incredible. I was a lot longer because I was I would then I was so happy single. I was single for like three and a half years.

Being single is incredible. If you're like in the right place and like you're mentally focused on yourself. So great. I am fucking great. I don't need anyone. And that's where you want to get to when you're single. I love it. I have empathy for women that when you get through out of a relationship, you almost

have those withdrawal symptoms of like, oh, my God, I'm used to having a partner. I'm used to having them here. And then you get good at being alone. You're like, and I don't think if I would have done that, if I would have, if I didn't do that, I would never have ended up with Danny, you know? Let's talk about Danny. Yeah. Because Danny, like he's just, he's just such a good man. And I'm not so sure I was like attracted to the good man. I mean, I was attracted to good men. But like, you know, the uncomplicated kind of, I liked a feisty, wild type. And whereas Danny has that in him, his values are very sturdy and he's such a lovely person. And I would have never,

I think, allowed that in if I didn't take those three years of just being so happy in my life alone. But I think that's a great thing for like all the women listening to think about. It's like when you're single you get anxious of like okay like i need to find who's my next person like oh my gosh like my clock like what am i gonna do and it's like if you just chill half the time when you get to the end you're like oh i don't need anyone like they gotta be fucking great if i find someone there's this really funny like i i'm i see i of course get fed all these like aries memes um and there's this one where they're like i'm an aries of course i did it like and there was one person who goes i was like i'm an aries like of course i love to be in relationships and then he's like you like me back

like and just rant runs in the other direction i think there's a little bit of like the Aries thing, which is like, we like newness. Yeah. Adventure, you know, like excitement. So like the sort of good man, like solid relationship is like Aries. I think a little bit in our head is like, a little bit like, is this going to like, is there going to be something that's going to keep this interesting or is this the rest of my life? And I think a lot of like fire signs would relate to this. So for me, those three years was like, oh, I'm actually like really love. I loved being without, um, because I was so happy alone.

Like I, the extent that sort of like excitement thing was like, I don't, that's actually not really, you don't need it. What's gonna, you're like, I'm exciting.

Yeah. I excite myself. That's right. It's like, I can, I can create my own new newness. You and Danny had known each other for 15 years before you guys got together i met danny when i was 23 pregnant with rider and danny was in high school yeah who made the first move danny yeah he was very very slow slow burn oh so slow i was like i was like was like, this is getting, this is weird.

Like, is this, is, is this like a thing or is this like not a thing? You know, he's really cute. He's really great. That's so cute. I know he's the best. I honestly, like, I'm, I'm just, it's like, I'm so happy. Good for you. Cause I, I think it's like incredible when you find, I,

I love when you find people in your life that you like, I can tell you're like, you're glowing when you talk about him. I could just like, you know, I really believe that there's a lot of different people in your life that you could have. Right. It's like the options are endless. Yeah. When people are like, I can't find anybody I'm like you're not looking in the right places like there's somebody for everybody you have to just be open to it and it has to and you have to let the expectation go yeah like he's not gonna look the way you want him to look and he's might not you know all this like this is my vision board like be comfortable if the person on your vision board is the opposite of who the guy you ended up falling in love with is.

Because I really believe that like part of what stops us from experiencing like great love is that we are shrinking the idea down to something really small. And so we're not open to. Right. Like you may be with someone that's right in front of you, you're like but that's not what i wanted and you're like but if it's right it's right yeah don't run away just because it's not your vision board bitch like throw out pinterest that's right that's right but it's good to have vision boards i like it but like but like be open to something totally different what does independence look like for you in a relationship? Great question. Oh, this question is so important.

I think like it's so hard because communication. I think in order to truly have like independence, you have to be good communicators. Because everyone's idea of their needs are so different, you know, and I am very independent. The other thing about Danny, he's so like, he just like lets me be you, be me. And I, it's like, I could, you know, I could be like, I really want to go out with my girlfriends tonight. And I really want to be with you. Be like, go, babe, go. And I could like be out till four in the morning, end up on some thing and come back and be like, oh, my God, I had the craziest night.

And he's just like totally OK with it. Like in a good way. He loves when I'm happy. And it was the if it's the other way around I'm like yeah why were you out hold on a second what were you up to four in the morning who what could you have been doing whose car did you end up in no literally no but I I am but I really did like but like independence is like what works for you like what might work for me doesn't work for him. So in order for me to feel independent, I think you have to communicate what that is like. My thing is I just want to be told, you know, like just tell me that you're you know where you are like tell me what you need and then

I'm good what I don't I'm I have a hard time with like not knowing right right some people are fine with not knowing they're much more comfortable with that secure with it my things like if you tell me that you're gonna call me at 11 but you call me at two, like that's going to not create independence for either of us. No, I think it's a great point. I could talk about this shit all day long. I love it. I could talk to you forever because I love having insightful conversations where we don't have the same background. So I'm interested to hear like, Ooh, like what is your take on this? Yeah. I'm also like a full disclaimer i should just wear like i don't know what i'm talking about me either but like it's like for me i'm also like i'm saying this yeah but i also am very happy to be wrong no women should run the world so like

okay um this album i think it's incredible because like i said you have an incredible voice but the songwriting is phenomenal and knowing that you said you have like hundreds of songs, just like in your house, how did you decide what you were going to put into this album? We just started fresh. There was no like, I mean, there's two songs on there that I wrote before I started writing with Linda. And then after we got out of the studio writing with Linda Perry, who's a writer on a lot of it we went back Dan and I went back and I we kind of um you know restructured two other songs that I had written before okay but they there it's all like of that time yeah you know so well that's why I'm like

listening to like the push and pull and and moving on like there's a lot that's why i wanted to talk to you about you and i think that's when people connect the most with lyrics when they get to know someone more and i can i'm telling you my fans fucking love music so they're gonna be like okay now that we know well kate more the lyrics will honestly it's like such a it's it's it's like because i waited so long to put something out, it was really important that it was reflective. So that there was like for me that it was where I'm at now, but my Romeo, which was which is, you know, and that? Um, and I have always been a hopeless romantic and I'm going to take the word hopeless out of it. Cause I actually feel that there's, there's, I'm a hopeful romantic, you know? It's like, and the hardest songs for me to write are the hopeful ones and that was so important

for me in this because i'm so like my brain loves a depressing song like i i mean if you go into my vault of music it's just there's so much depressing shit in there it's crazy and it will come out at some point okay good i i really like we need a good cry i have to cry but like for me with this i wanted it to feel like what the album title is like there's to to to love fully is a glorious experience and it it comes to you in so many different ways and like we're talking about like if you're open to it then you you know you're then you're I think you're living a really like well-loved life as long as you're a good person treating people respectfully and you're yeah honest no I can't thank you enough for coming on like I had such a fabulous time getting to know you and I'm so

excited that I got to sit with you for this long to like talk about all the girl things but talk about the music because it is intertwined like you said like this is a this album is about love and like the experiences that you've had and I think it's inspiring honestly I think some people feel like constrained to like that was the one love of my life you can have so many loves of your lives and you can have so many loves and you can love people in different ways and you shouldn't look at back at your past in negative way like every chapter is a new chapter and just like lean in and have a good time yeah and like gonna find out is like about not wanting a relationship right you know it's about being in that yeah for three years you know that's kind of like a song about when you just want to like when you don't that that like little you know like

spark that you have with someone where you're just like, is this going to go down? You know? Okay. Last question. Then I know you have to go. What is your favorite song? I have to go make out with a guy. I have one scene to do today.

Stop. I'm making out with a total stranger. What? I've been like really stressing about this. Oh my God. And you're coughing. I am COVID. No, fuck.

I'm not telling him. Wait, you have to make out? Like full make out time? I have to like make out with this random guy. How long? I mean, Kate. You will see it on Netflix at some point. Yeah, I don't know, but I've been like having anxiety over this.

How do you get mentally prepared for that? I don't know. I've never. What I do is I'm channeling Emma Stone in, you know. Poor things. Poor things. Poor things. Poor things.

Jesus Christ. You're channeling Emma Stone. Poor things. If she could do that. You can do this. I can do this. Come on. You know what I mean?

I can make out with some random guy. Easy. Yeah. So. Well, thank you so much for coming on. This was truly so fun. This was so fun. Thank you.