Call Her Daddy - Kate Hudson: A Year Without Men (FBF)

Episode Date: May 23, 2025

Join Alex in the studio for an interview with Kate Hudson. Kate talks about her childhood, being a prude in high school, and how she personally handled mean girls. She opens up about falling in love very young and getting married in her early twenties. Kate also shares her opinion about why she still has love for her exes. She explains how to let go of resentment and encourages the Daddy Gang to take accountability for their part in relationships too. Kate talks about how there’s nothing wrong with living life on your terms and how to feel confident breaking the norm. Then she gives advice on how to catch a guy being shady, what to do when you find out your boyfriend has a burner phone, and how to navigate when you and your partner’s sex drives aren’t syncing up. Finally, she talks about going a year without men and breaking toxic patterns to find independence and security in her relationships. Enjoy!

What is up, daddy gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper with call her daddy. Hi. Hi. Kate Hudson. Excuse me if I have like these like disgusting cough episodes. Oh, are you sick? I am. No, I am. I had that lingering like three week. Uh huh. You can to get me sick. If you get sick, it wasn't me. No it was you. I am not contagious. You came in here to like, fuck this bitch, I'm gonna get her really sick and leave and give her no tea. No, it's gonna be great. Okay, so you're kind of like in an entire new phase of your life right now with this

new venture of music. Congratulations. I know. Well, only in public. Right. You know what I mean? Okay. So, I mean, music's been in my life my whole life.

OK. Whether it was me or whether it was with like my exes, partners. But yeah, I know I finally was like, you know what, if I don't share it, I'll just regret it. And that's what I think is interesting when you think of like Kate Hudson, everyone's like actress. Is it terrifying to come out with music or are you like excited? Are you nervous? I think it was terrifying which is why I didn't do it and I'm an Aries, like I'm supposed to be fearless and I was like why am I so terrified to share my writing, really. You know, and I think it's because when I grew up and sort of was young and became well known and, you know, I got famous young.

So I was 20 years old. And at that time, like, you don't switch careers. There's no like, there was no, oh, you're gonna be a movie star and then you're gonna be, and then you can be a rock star. It's like, no, stay in one lane. Everyone tells you to stay in one lane. Don't break what's not broken.

So I kind of had this thing where it was like, the one thing I loved the most was gonna take a, was just gonna take a back seat. And so my dream was like, okay, well, I can do musicals and then maybe that's how I incorporate music into my life. And then I, you know, it just time gets away from you and you know, kids and things and COVID happened. And I'm like, I'm sitting on hundreds and hundreds of songs

that I've never like, I'm so scared to put that out, but why? And so I had to kind of tackle that. And then I was just like, fuck it. If I don't do it, then I will be on my deathbed and it will be a great regret of mine. So. Well, I think it's incredible you're doing it also

because you have a really good voice. Oh, thanks. No, but I think sometimes, to be honest, I think people are always like, oh God, another fucking actress is gonna now try to do a singing career or vice versa. Yeah, the singer goes to try to act. I'm listening to you and I'm like,

oh, you have a fucking great voice. It's funny, because I'm not, I don't, that's been part of my hesitation is I don't see my, the instrument as like a technician. I think there's certain technicians of the instrument that are fucking brilliant. And you listen to them and you're like, Whoa, they can do runs for days and they can hit certain notes and things. And like, I never saw myself as a technician

of the instrument. So like when I'm writing music, I write for my voice or I write what I'm feeling. So that always for me was like, oh, you know, if I can't hit that note, then what does that mean? You know, and so I kind of also had to just let it go. Let that go and just sing. Well, I also think what you were saying is your lyrics.

Like as I was like going through your music, I'm like, oh, so much of your lyrics are about love and your relationships and heartbreak and moving on and knowing when to move on. And like, Romeo, I feel like is like a great summer bop. I'm like- You like Romeo? Yeah.

Oh my God, I love it. I think it's a vibe. I love Romeo so much. It's a good vibe. Romeo, it makes me happy. That song just is like, I just wanna like put it on in the car in the summer. Yeah.

Yes, I love that. That's the one you mentioned. But then I also love that you go to the complete opposite side and it's like love ain't easy. And I'm like, you're just like flexing your vocals. I'm like, holy fucking shit. It's like a beautiful, I guess, ballad or like, and it's gorgeous.

But so much of listening to it, I felt like I got to know you a little bit more. And I wanna talk a little bit about that today because I'm like, okay, when you were growing up, how was sex and dating discussed in your household? In our house? Yeah. Oh, I mean, I have very open, you know, progressive parents ish, progressive ish parents. Those were things that were always very open.

And I think part of why we were never super rebellious was because there was no mystery around those things. So, you know, even like partying, like my parents loved to have a good time. And we grew up seeing them enjoy their life, laugh with friends, be, you know, talk about naughty things sometimes, overhear things that were like,

hmm, what are they talking about? But this mystery of connection and why we connect with people was never something that was hidden that we didn't talk about. I think that's a good point because I feel like not to shit on the kids that's parents were so strict,

but I had a similar upbringing where my parents were very open about things. So I was never like, I wanna go experiment and do all the shit behind their back because fuck you, you're making me stay home. I felt like I was lucky to have that. But I can see a lot of kids where you can go the opposite way because if your parent tells you

to not to do something, you naturally wanna do it sometimes. So if you have people that are talking openly about, especially I think for women about like, not actual sex, like your mom's not like, Kate, let me tell you about this. But when you're, well, did she? No, I mean, not when I was young. What were you like with guys growing up? Like, were you confident?

Totally boy crazy. Really? I'm still boy crazy. You are? Yeah, boys are fun. I have a good boy right now. I have a really awesome boy. But I mean, I, I, you know, I'm doing this show right now where I play the president of a basketball team. So I'm basically surrounded by men all day. And you're just

happy. I went home to Danny, I was like, honey, I'm having the time of my life. I love you. I am very committed, but I feel so lucky. It's like I was born for this job. Stop. But I was very boy crazy. Okay. And but I was also very prude. Oh, really?

Like love to have fun, love to be flirty, super prude. Really? Yeah. What was your personality in high school? I didn't want to be there. Why? Cause I was like ready to like, I was like ready to have my own apartment somewhere in the world. Like I was like in ninth grade, like, ah, just someone give me like a martini and a cigarette and a, and like some book on a balcony in Paris. Like, I don't know, I can see it a little bit in my daughter.

It's just like, I wasn't into the high school party scene. I wanted to be in theater. I wanted to be singing. I wanted to be like traveling the world. I was like ready. Got it. To me, high school felt like it was holding me back. I get that, I get that.

And I was like, oh, you're just holding me back. Now I look back at high school and I feel like it was like one of the great experiences of my life. Right, right. But I was definitely like the mom of the bunch. Oh, okay. Yeah, like when all my friends are partying, like I was designated driver.

Like I would take care of everybody. I didn't expect that. Yeah, everybody thinks I'm a total party girl is the opposite. Yeah. So you're always DDing still to this day. Always. Well, I mean, you know, not now,

but like back then I was very straight. Were you bullied at all? Like were you octo- Totally. Really? Totally. Yeah, because look when you're young if you're confident in something it's hard like people don't really like it. Yeah. You know so like I remember I was like I knew exactly what I wanted to do. I was very focused. I wanted to be in theater. I wanted to be like

working and doing things and there's a lot of girls who just rolled their eyes at that. Yeah. And so, yeah, I wouldn't say bullied, but there was a lot of gossipy, like talk behind back type stuff. That makes sense where girls are just like, she's fucking annoying.

And then you're like, what? Because I know what I wanna do. And like, you know, I guess like, because I wasn't, I think girls who don't party, you know, I guess like, because I wasn't, I think girls who don't party, you know, I can sometimes get that too. It's like, oh, you're too good to like get drunk with us. And it's like, no, I actually just don't wanna like do a keg stand like on with you right now.

Like I don't wanna get wasted, but I'm happy to like hold your hair when you're throwing up. I don't, so I was like that girl and it would, I think sometimes bother girls. But it didn't bother me. Wait, you're not judging them for doing the keg stand. You've like got the hair tie ready.

Yeah, and I just didn't, I just wasn't, I wasn't like that. But I think when you're at a place in your life where you're like, don't feel like you're in the same position as people, like mentality wise, it's hard to fit in anywhere. Like if you're like ready to move on and everyone's like, we're loving this, like we're going to the tailgate tonight

and you're like, stab me. Yeah, I think these like young, like social structure, clicky, like Lord of the Flies type, like things that happen are actually really important. How you deal with them at school and then how you deal with them at home with your family and like how they're supported, I think are so important.

Like I feel like it's good to kind of have a little bit of friction when you're growing up and people saying mean things sometimes it's good to kind of have a little bit of friction when you're growing up and people saying mean things sometimes it's like oh you know you kind of need a little bit of that to like power through it and to realize like in in in retrospect to be able to reflect look back and go wow like I'm so happy that that wasn't who I am and that I had a little bit of that scarring. That's a good point. Get you through certain things

because it doesn't get better. No, it does not. The world is a, I mean, human nature is quite brutal. So like how do we, you know, when those small communities like you're going to have friction in high school. I mean, what was your friction? Mine was, I definitely like, I had a similar experience where like,

I was ready to get out. Like I knew I wanted to do all of this. Like I was like the video production nerd, but I was also at the same time, the jock. So like I hid from everyone that I liked video production and I would like lie to everyone. They're like, why are you doing that for your elective every year?

I'm like, I don't know. They said like, I'm good. It's so annoying, but whatever it's easy. Like I would lie because I was embarrassed because everyone would make fun of me for like liking that shit. Right. And I was the jock.

So they're like, you're the soccer girl. Like you can't be both. And kind of what we talked about at the beginning of this episode, it's like, you can never be both. And I think the jock. So they're like, you're the soccer girl. Like you can't be both. And kind of what we talked about at the beginning of this episode, it's like, you can never be both. And I think especially for women, it's like, you definitely can't be both. That can't be possible.

And I was insecure. Like I was super awkward and gawky, aren't we all? And like, it wasn't great, but I do look back. And in the moment I was like, fuck my fucking life. I need to get to college. Then when I got to college, I was like, I'm ready to go to New York city. Get me the fuck out of here. Like, I feel like at every stage of my life

in those like scholastic moments, I was like, I'm ready to leave. I'm not meant to be here. But then I look back and I'm like, I learned so much about myself. I know. And then you kind of look back too, and you're like, oh, and then you had these great,

like big, fun, awesome moments. Yes. Sometimes I look, there's certain people too, that were just like always wonderful. Like, you know, you kind of, like big fun awesome moments. And then sometimes I look, there's certain people too that were just like always wonderful. Like, you know, you kind of, this girl, Hillary and Jessica and like, I look at these girls and I'm like, God, I wonder what they're doing now.

Like they must be like the greatest mother of all time. Cause they were so like even and they had kind everybody and like helping you organize your own thoughts. Like, did you get your homework done? You're like, oh yeah, oh shit. You know, there's, so it's like, I don't know, you look back at that little mic, like it's like a microcosm of what, you know,

the sort of- No, you're right. It's like, sometimes I think we have a hard time pinpointing like the positives in situations. Like I found an old laptop from college and I had some like fucked up shit happen to me in college. And I looked back at like this really specific time in my life as like negative.

And I remember opening my laptop and like almost getting so emotional because I'm like, I had the best time. Like I fucking love these girls and I love these people. And I love, so like when there's something negative that happens, it's hard to remember all the positive, but most of it- Well, our brain does sort of lean more to the, unfortunately to the negative.

Yeah, true. You know? Tell me about your first love. My first love? Yeah. My first, I mean, my first real love was my ex-husband. I was young, I met him when I was 20. I actually met him when I was 18.

Okay. 19, 19. And he was just a, like, you know, not a very nice rock star type. Like, I remember thinking, God, he was so mean. And then I met him again at 20 and he wasn't that mean. I must've caught him on a bad night or something. And yeah, I mean, first real love of my life.

How soon did you date to then get married? Oh gosh, it was a whirlwind. We were engaged in four months and married at nine months. And then like three years, then I wanted to have a baby and we had Ryder. And then I kind of started to do that downward spiral. The classic, the classic, we all know it.

How did you know you were ready for marriage at 21? There wasn't an ounce of me that wasn't, like I didn't question it for a second. Really? Yeah, we were so connected. And Chris taught me so much about love and connection. And it was just a wonderfully passionate relationship. Did anyone around you be like,

Kate, please don't get married right now? No, the people I live in let people make mistakes. You know? Okay. So your mom didn't care. She's like. Yeah, and by the way, not a mistake. I look back at my entire life at this point,

and I'm like, I actually feel like I might've gotten it right, you know? Like, love. There's this sort of construct that we're supposed to do at a certain way, which I understand, because I really believe in the unit and I think it's what's missing right now.

But I do believe that a unit can exist differently than this sort of like very kind of religious concept of like marriage and male-female relationship. I really believe that a unit can be, even if someone is alone in their life and hasn't met the love of their life, that they could have a best friend, that they live close together

and they can raise their children together and have values inside of that that can be really important for children. So for me, having the means and the ability to choose to be more healthy in relationships means that it's easy, it's kind of been easier for me to exit unhealthy relationships.

Interesting. Right. So whereas if I probably didn't have the means, it would be a much more challenging thing. But inside of that, just because you're not supposed to be with someone doesn't mean that you can't create a big, beautiful experience. Totally.

I don't know how I've been able to do it, but it's like, we just do it, all of us. What would you say? Cause like, I think you're right and I love how you describe that. I think so many people can be judgmental if you don't follow the traditional route. Like it's like 21 is too young, but then like 30 is too old. It's like you can't fucking win as a woman.

What was like the best and then the hardest parts of being married in your early 20s? I just like jump in the deep end of everything. So it's sort of like, I mean, the best thing was that I in a time that could have been probably not very grounded, I've always sought home. I've always sought, I like my cozy, you know, I'm a homebody. And I've always wanted a big family. I've always wanted to work hard and have a big, fun, crazy life. But like, you know, I like to be home. And so even when I was young,

I longed for that family connection. I grew up like that. So, and so when I met Chris, it's like when my career was taking off, it was also a time that could have been a whirlwind and instead I was in this very grounding, loving relationship. Right, like you had that stability, even though like externally it looked all chaos

because your life is like, you're thriving, you're a movie star, you get to go home to this guy, and you're like, this is what I prefer. Yeah, we just had like a cozy, great vibe. Vibe, yeah. I think something I was reading about you that I think is really relatable is like, you talk about how when your marriage ended, you still had like so much love for this person. And I'm wondering if you have any advice for women listening of like, maybe someone just went through a breakup and they're still so in love with their ex, but they know they need to move on. Like how the fuck do you do that? Let's be very clear. Like if I didn't have children, I probably would never speak to

this. Stop. I'm kidding. No, you know, the thing is like, I don't know if it has something, it just, I guess it's just a, it's an attachment thing, I guess. It's like how we attach to pain or why something isn't working or what the expectation is of what you wanted from the relationship and then that expectation letting you down and then people suffer because they've sort of put such an expectation on what something's supposed to look like. Versus my choice through life is just like opening, being more open. And that doesn't mean that it's without pain and sadness

and working through stuff and reflecting and taking accountability. But like, and I'll come back to the accountability part because I think that's the most important thing. But the end of the day, you know, I believe you love someone if you love them once, you really love them in some way forever. Even if you can't stand them,

if you really did, if you really loved them, if it was pure, it wasn't like coming from some place unhealthy, you'll love them through anything, you know? Maybe not romantically, but that will always, always be there. And I do believe that like it shifts, just like friendships shift, you know, my best friendships have gone through times

where we are like, don't talk 40 times a day to not seeing each other for a year, but there's always that kind of foundation. I believe that with great loves of your life, and I will always, even in the hardest time to be able to see the people that I've been with and that I've shared intimacy with in a loving way. I also believe that that's a choice.

I choose to do that. I also believe that that's a choice. I choose to do that. You know, I do that because I think it's more peaceful for me, which makes it more peaceful for my children. But I think that the biggest thing about relationships and when they end is like how you're being accountable. when they end, is like how you're being accountable. And I think most people hold on to all the shit when they're not taking accountability

for their own thing. You know, it's like, it doesn't matter. There's always two people in the relationship. So you can't just point a finger out. You always have to look back and, you know, the old one finger and three pointed back at you. Right. It's a great point.

I love everything you just said, because I think I had a conversation, I think it was with Camila Cabello, and she was like, yeah, like it's tough. Like where does the love go? Like when you break up with someone that you love so much, it's a strange thing to know like they're alive and they're out there and I'm here.

And that's why that Gotye song was so, it was so like it hit a nerve for everybody. Yes, somebody that I used to know. You're like, God, why didn't I write that? Fuck. But like, yeah, I mean, it's tough. But what did she, is that- No, she basically just said like, it hurts,

but it's like, you know it's not supposed to be anymore. It was, we change constantly as people. Like I'm the same person, but a different version of myself when I was 21. Oh my God, I was madly in love. I'm not in love with him anymore, but I still, yes, I think you're right. I choose to know that I still have love

for all of these people that I loved. I think when it ends really badly, if someone like, did you fucking dirty and cheated on you and you find out and you're like, oh my God, I think you never respect me, fuck. That can hurt. But again, it's like, how did it get to that point? You can always look back at yourself and be like,

could I have done this or could I have done that? And sometimes they're just a piece of shit and you're like, you couldn't have done any better. I had a friend who said something really, really great, which is like, when you're in something and you're going through a wave, he was also talking about it kind of like a DNA strand. Like, you know, people say it's like a roller coaster,

but it's more like when you're with someone for a long time, it's like it circulates, you know, moves. And I thought that was a very kind of a beautiful image for a long-term intimate relationship. And as it's shifting, when you start to feel yourself off balance, it's much easier for us to go out, to externalize it and go, I'm not getting this or I'm not receiving that. This is what that would look like over here.

And what if I had this over there? And what I believe happens as you get older or healthier, maybe not an age thing, but like, when you go internal, that issue or that wave or that cycle, it starts to move differently. You're not seeking anything externally. You're only really looking at it internally, which can only in turn really make the relationship more intimate and honestly more, you know,

I would say connect connective because you're not seeking it from somewhere else. And then if you get to that place where you're like, I don't know if I can do this anymore. It's not coming from anything you need from the outside world. I think that the concept of accountability and relationships is like not talked about enough.

And I love that you brought up because it also gives you so much more autonomy over your own life when you actually take accountability as opposed to being like, he did this to me. And he's like, no one can do anything to you other than like physically. Unless you're in like a very, very scary. Oh my gosh, yeah.

Like put all of that aside. Right, like if someone's making you feel a certain way, like you have the ability to control your own emotions and your actions and what you're doing and how you're reacting. Yeah, and like, look, you know, everybody holds their own wild card, right? And like sometimes that wild card works for some people and it really doesn't for others.

And if you're holding two completely different wild cards, it can get fucking really tumultuous and wild. But if you're holding the same wild card, you know, if someone is like, hey, here's the deal, I want an open relationship. I could never be faithful to you. I'd be like, oh my God, thank you for saying that. I can't be with you.

But like, I have so much respect for your honesty. But if you're like, this person told me he couldn't be faithful to me, but I decided to be with this person anyway, and now we're in this tumultual relationship and I'm miserable, I'd be like, if I was my own girlfriend, I'd be like, babe, this is more about you than it is about him.

Like he told you, he was honest. He was honest. And you still rode the wave. Yeah, you're holding different wild cards. If you were like, great, then I'm gonna do the same. And then you guys would have a, I mean, you'd be, you know. No, it's a great point. It's like, sometimes we also, I think people,

and it depends on where you're at, I think health-wise, it's like I, when I was younger, oh, blinders on, I'm like, he told me this, I'm like, no, he didn't. No, he didn't. He didn't say that to me. I'm like pretending to, I'm like short-term memory. And it was because I wanted what I wanted and I wasn't listening to what was being said

directly to my face. It's like, oh, you're an idiot. Like he literally told you he's cheated on his last 17 girlfriends. What'd you think was gonna happen now? I'm gonna change him. No, you're not. And also, you know, a lot of people, I think,

find themselves in relationships where people feel insecure and they wanna put people down and you take it. And at some point, I think a lot of women I know have been in this situation, at some point, you can point your finger out at them, but you can, some of you're like, why am I accepting this? Like, why am I here? Yeah.

And it kind of feeds that like, you know, push pull thing that a lot of people get very like toxically into. Love. But no, I used to love it. I was like, oh my God, I'm alive. I was like, Kay, I'm alive. And now if I like would meet someone at that point

in my life, I think when I got to later in my 20s, I was like, I'm exhausted. Absolutely get the fuck away from me if you're playing games. But in my early 20s, it kept my heart beating. I was like, this is a thrill. And it was just all because I didn't want stability at that point.

I didn't- Yeah, you gotta learn. Yeah, you gotta go. You gotta be like, yeah. I have scenarios for you because you have wisdom. I'm gonna give you gotta learn. Right, you gotta be like, yeah. I have scenarios for you because you have wisdom. I'm gonna give you a scenario. I want to know if you would keep seeing the guy or if this would be a deal breaker. I'm gonna give you a scenario.

I want to know if you would keep seeing the guy or if this would be a deal breaker. Okay. Okay. You catch him going through your phone and he says it's because he's been you've been distant. How long have I been with him? You've been together for eight months. Oh, done, out.

See you later, weird. So weird. What about two years? Then maybe I'd be like, okay, what am I doing that's making you feel insecure? And by the way, you can go into my phone anytime, you don't need to look at that. Like if I'm with someone for two years,

I'm not one of those people that's like, why are you looking in my phone? It's like, wait, what's my like, here's my phone. I don't, I wouldn't live with secrecy or feel like I need, you know? Yeah. Have you ever caught someone going through your phone? Oh yeah. Emails. How did you find out? I could tell where there was like logins, you know, it was like stupid, you know, it was like stupid. Yeah. Which also is like, bye. Oh, you got to be smarter. Like you almost get like the it because you're like, wait, like I would have been like cooler

if you were like so sly. Yeah, but you're but you're I'm getting a notification. Yeah. It's like, what are you doing? No, clearly someone's on my, yeah. On my iPad or my computer, whatever. It's like on my phone. It's like, ding, someone just logged into your Mac book. Your boyfriend is on your stop. And did you confront? Did you end it? It was already on the way out. Okay. It was like, it's good to know. Yeah. Have you ever gone through a phone? Oh yeah. You kidding?

Especially with shady guys, like full on. How do you get in? Oh, girls, any girl who says I would never is a lie. Oh my God, it's my favorite hobby back in the day. I mean, at some point in your life, a girl's been like, no I'm gonna no yeah something's up mm-hmm it's one thing if something's not up then you should feel it's just a random then you're like okay you have trust issues you gotta figure that out

yeah it's one thing if like the guy is being fully shady and not telling you the truth and you're like no I need some concrete evidence don't CIA I'm gonna figure this out then Then you get it. And then. Yeah. I mean, please. Yes. It's a it's it was a fabulous game.

Okay. But when you play the game and you find things, how do you handle it? Because most of the time they're like, oh, it's Nolan Void. You went through my fucking phone. You crazy bitch. Yeah. Okay. It doesn't matter.

I'm you're out of my life. So what are we talking about? Yeah, thank God. Because now I'm never gonna see you again. Like that's- This is great. But I'm really, like I'm, like you would have to be doing something crazy. Really shitty.

Huh. You know what I mean? Like, oh no. Like you wouldn't care. Like you're telling me one thing and doing another and I'm not gonna do that. So I'm gonna find out. And then I also did do the thing too, which is fun where you just lie.

Yeah. Where you're just like, no, I read it. Right. I read it. I read this. Or I know you were here. How do you know that? Cause I have a friend that's the bartender

and she was there and she saw you. Oh, it's so fun. I've done all of it. And that's the best is when you know they've fucked you over and then you come up with the best live all time. And it's like, oh my God, I'm an Olympian. And they're like sweating.

God. And you're like, you know what's really sad? I used to do this is like, I know everything. And then they'd go like pale white. And so I told you, like, I know what's really sad? I used to do this, it's like, I know everything. And then they'd go like pale white. And like, so I told you, like, I know everyone in New York. So when you go to the great white and you're there and you're having drinks with her, like, what'd you think I was gonna,

do you think I wasn't gonna know? And he's like shitting his pants. Meanwhile, didn't have any friends at the great white, just saw on his phone that he was like, meet me at the great white. But you make it up and then you get out of it unscathed. But people wonder why women should rule the world because we're incredibly resourceful.

Period. Period. It's like, guys, we're gonna strategize this and by the end of it, you're gonna be sweating bullets and I'm gonna leave you. So. Right, the difference is we get notifications that you're hacking into our computers. We come up with lies. You didn't even know we went into your fucking iPhone. I know, guys you. So. Right, the difference is we get notifications that you're hacking into our computers.

We come up with lies. You didn't even know we went into your fucking iPhone. I know, guys are so funny. I love guys so much because they're quite, they're very simple. I mean, not that they're not like complex and you know, but like the foundation of how men work isn't that challenging.

They're super straightforward. And I think we expect them to be more complicated. We give them more credit for sure. Than it actually is. Half the time if they're giving you, like if you get a weird vibe, the weird vibe is right. Like they're cheating or they're doing like, sometimes women will be like,

well, maybe it's because his grandmother was not feeling well. So maybe he's been acting weird. No, no, no, it's what you think it is. He's cheating. Or like if there's like three burner phones, like there's a problem. You know what I mean?

It's gonna get weird at some point. Like if you see a burner phone in a Dopp kit, just run. It's not gonna be a good ending. Which has happened to a couple of friends of mine where I'm like, what do you do if you see this? And I'm like, oh my God, babe. Well, first look on it, because I would love to know. You gotta know.

You gotta have something to talk about over dinner. Or like take it, just steal it. Just like take the phone and then never talk to him again. And then you call the number, you meet up with the girl, you get cocktails, you laugh about it. No, you have to look at it though, you're right. It's comedy because sometimes men are so dense. I also love men and sometimes men are so simple

and they're really just showing you their cards immediately. How old are you? 29. Okay, so you're like, see I'm in the age where everyone's married. And we live vicariously through our late 20s, like we're early 30s friends.

Where we're like, oh, let me tell you the story. Now we're all like, you know, it's like, we're in the, Now we're all like, you know, like it's like, we're in the, okay, are you, are you, is your husband gonna go to the four year old's birthday party or are the girls going to this birthday? How many fucking birthday parties are there this weekend? What are we doing? Are we just staying home?

Like it's just very normal. Now we're in like the- Right, right, you're in the normal. We're in the raising kids phase, which is just like soccer games, baseball games, birthday parties. There's no like- There's no burner phones.

No, no, and that's, no, yeah. But sometimes we want our little burner phones. The burner phones, it's like someone can, I have a friend who has someone with a burner phone. But sometimes you want a little burner phone action. So no, I think that's such a good point though. It's like, ladies, stop ignoring the fucking signs. If it's right in front of you,

it's probably what it looks like. But it's hard. I know. You have friends who are more dramatic than others and we all have to let each other go through it. True. I just don't like when people, we know when it turns and it's unhealthy

that we need to rally around our friends. True. If something is not right and they're kind of stuck in a really unhealthy and it's like not funny anymore. Yes, when it's not funny anymore. Yeah, then you're like, okay, you know what? What's going on?

It's almost like when the girl dinners because all girlfriends talk about each other and it's not even like behind your back. It's like, oh God, she's with him again. Like we know he's gonna cheat again and we love her to death. From that, when it gets to like, I don't even wanna fucking hear about it. Like you've literally exhausted all of us.

That's when it gets scary. Cause you're like, now you've alienated yourself and we feel bad as opposed to be like, Jessica, what are you doing with him again? And we can't help you, you know, it's like, or like support it. That's when it gets hard. That's hard.

Yeah. That's hard. Okay, he's really close friends like support it. That's when it gets hard. That's hard. Yeah. That's hard. Okay, he's really close friends with his ex. Oh, interesting. Like how close is close? Like they get lunch, I would say, every month, every other month, and they- Do they have a kid?

Nope. Oh, problematic. For me, personally. For me, personally. For me too. If they had a kid, I'd be like, oh, this is family and we have to like bring her all in, you know? And my other thing is like, if I'm going to have dinner with her

and then you're gonna go have lunch with her, we're good. If we're all besties, like my best friend was my ex's ex-girlfriend. Hold on. And when we, well, it's not as complicated as it sounds. Basically, I met my best friend through my ex-husband who used to date her. Oh, fascinating.

So when I was married to him, I met her, we became best friends. Got it, and that was his ex? And that was his ex, but we were, we became best friends. Got it, and that was his ex. And that was his ex. But we were, loved each other. There was no like, I'm gonna go have dinner with or lunch with my ex-girlfriend. You were included. Oh yeah, and she'd rather be with me

than hang out with him. So like, that makes sense to me. I agree. I think it does depend sometimes on like, did you meet the, like, did you know the ex? This is fucking confusing me. Like, did you know the person before or after? Like if my best friend became best friends with my ex,

I'd be like, where's the fucking loyalty? Like you didn't know him before me. I think, you know what I mean? Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait. Okay, here we go. You mean if you're bestie? I'm dating a guy. Okay, right.

And my best friend meets him, likes him, woo! We break up and she stays friends with him? Odd. Right, it depends. I guess it depends how it ended, how it ended. It depends. He ruined my life. He cheated on me. I guess it depends how it ended, how it ended. It depends. He ruined my life. He cheated on me.

I mean, it's tough. That's a tough one. Because I think it would be like, you know, it also depends on if you, like is she kind of into him? Right, that's fair. You can kind of feel when it's is or when it isn't. No, I think it's also just about like respect.

Like communicate with your fucking friends. If you're staying friends with your girl's ex and you guys are like in love, well- Okay, I'm gonna give you a scenario. Okay. You're not friends with this girl. You have mutual friend groups.

Okay. Okay, mutual friend groups, they run into each other here and there at a party. Oh, hey, nice to see you. Like, oh, good, I'm done, okay. She breaks up with her boyfriend. Okay. I don't know, whenever, six months, a year later,

you end up with the boyfriend. The boyfriend. Does she have a right to be mad at you? Okay, you said the only moment I hang out with her is like in big friend groups. Yeah, she's around. Like maybe you share a friend. We've never gone to a lunch.

You don't text. No, oh my God, she can't be mad. Okay. Absolutely not. Yeah, well, there's a lot of people who would say otherwise and I'm like, that's crazy. That's networking. How are we supposed to meet anyone? I don't know you.

Right, like if you can't be mad at me. No, that's crazy. That's fucking crazy. If it's your best friend, that's it. It's all that matters. Yeah, well, if it's like even like a close friend. A close friend, of course. Then you can have a conversation of like,

this is also tough where it's like, it's awkward if like, then you go on- But like girls who throw shade to girls that like are dating, but they don't know them, I think that's weird. No, you gotta move on. And I also think if you don't have their phone number, you owe them literally nothing. I agree. Okay. Okay.

I like that. We're moving on. He has an extremely high sex drive and is trying to go every day, twice a day. I mean, I'm not mad at it. First of all, twice a day, I mean, it'd be one thing if it's like four times a day, you'd be like, this is, like we're exhausted.

And like, this is like kind of weird because like what happens when I have to leave for a week? True. Is this something you need every day, regardless of whether I'm here or not? And it also depends on his age, because it would sort of determine whether or not he was- Just going through it.

Yeah, or if he was young, that would make sense. If he's like 40 something, men's libido's kind of go down at late 20s. Right, so he's like a sex addict. So like if his libido's that high, it's like, what are you on? Literally. It's like, I always say this about women,

especially as women get older, there's sort of this concept around women that they should become less sexual as they get older. But the reality is, is that women as we get older, our libido's get more intensified to a certain age than men's. So it's sort of like this made up thing, right? That women as we get older are supposed to be.

Right, like died out, like we're not even having sex, we're not sexual. Yeah, when it's literally the opposite. Yeah. So somewhere down the line, men didn't really want women to be very sexy as they got older, I think. So they kind of made it so like, oh no, like if you're no longer, you know, mating for us,

then you should just go over here. So true. When in reality, it's like women into their 40s, sometimes 50s are like very much. Sexual. Yeah. ["Darlin'"] I'm gonna lose, I'm gonna lose, baby. Did I read this correctly that your therapist once told you to take a break from men for a year? Yeah.

Where did you, where did I say that? Yeah, I took like a full year off. You did it? It was, I was like, what? Wait. I couldn't floor, no, yeah, none of it. But it was great. How old were you when you did this?

30 something. I just, I was like at that place where I was like, I don't wanna keep repeating any patterns anymore. I have a great therapist who was like, I can help you, but you have to like do it. But you gotta like get off the sauce, Kate. He's like, get off the sauce. And well, my thing that I was getting distracted, you know.

You like to flirt, you like boys. You said you love boys. I just love the, I love the, you know, like, ooh, this is fun, I'm gonna touch this. But it was really interesting cuz it he took me like basically I was like, okay Well, I guess I'm I can't even Text guys you couldn't flirt if a guy came up to you. You're like just not interested Yeah, I mean I could talk to them, but I I was like there's no I couldn't give them my number

So I'd be like they're like a civ your number. I'd be like, there's no, I couldn't give them my number. So I'd be like, they'd be like, can I have your number? I'd be like, you know, no. Like I'm not, I'm not there right now. But it was strangely empowering because it got very uncomfortable for me in the beginning, like the first couple of months, I was like, my mojo was like, I was just like, oh God. I was like, I might've, I was like, you know, my mojo was like, er, I was just like, oh God, I was like, I might've, I was like, you know, you know, just felt like I hadn't,

I was like, what, what am I doing? Like what, I'm not like. Not me. Yeah, it's just, it's not fun, you know? And so I was like, well, and then because we were going through various specific type of therapy, it was really about like, figuring out certain things that were happening. Yeah. And then I had this one sort of breakthrough. That was very emotional that I don't think I would have been able to access if I had any distraction.

So like, it allowed me to see things much more clearly. And then within six months, I was like, I didn't care about my phone. I didn't care about like, if I was gonna go out and meet my girlfriends, I wasn't like that thing where I'm like, oh, I wonder if so-and-so would be there or like, ooh, we should maybe call up so-and-so and then do that.

There was no desire for me to be doing anything that had anything to do with potential flirtation. So then when I was in with doing that, you know, flirtation. Right. So, then when I was in with, you know, doing that, and I remember my therapist a year later was like, okay, I think you can flirt again. I was like, what? I can flirt? And he's like, yeah, I was like, what does that mean?

He's like, how do I flirt? I like, forgot. And then I remember like all these guys would start texting and I'd be like, I didn't have the same attachment to it anymore, it just went away. It was like, I didn't get that like, ooh, you know? I was just like, oh, no, no, it just didn't have the same like pull.

Interesting. It sort of became, and then the guys that I would normally have been like, ooh, was like, no. That's incredible. It was pretty amazing. So you lasted the year. Oh yeah, I'm very disciplined.

Damn. Yeah, yeah. It was good. One year. One year and yeah. It's pretty incredible. I think it was longer, because then I was so happy single. I was single for like three and a half years. Being's pretty incredible. I think I was longer, because then I was so happy single.

I was single for like three and a half years. Being single is incredible. If you're like in the right place and like you're mentally focused on yourself. I feel like I am fucking great. I don't need anyone. And that's where you wanna get to when you're single. I love it.

I have empathy for women that when you get through out of a relationship, you almost have those withdrawal symptoms of like, oh my God, I'm used to having a partner. I'm used to having them here. And then you get good at being alone. You're like, and I don't think if I would have done that, if I didn't do that, I would never have ended up

with Danny, you know? Let's talk about Danny. Yeah, because Danny, like, he's just such a good man. And I'm not so sure I was like attracted to the good man. I mean, I was attracted to good men, but the uncomplicated kind of, I like the feisty, wild type. Whereas Danny has that in him, his values are very sturdy and he's such a lovely person. And I would have never, I think, allowed that in if I didn't take those three years of just

being so happy in my life alone. But I think that's a great thing for like all the women listening to think about. It's like when you're single, you get anxious of like, okay, like I need to find who's my next person. Like, oh my gosh, like my clock, like, what am I gonna do? And it's like, if you just chill half the time when you get to the end, you're like, oh, I don't need anyone.

Like they gotta be fucking great if I find someone. There's this really funny, like I see, I of course get fed all these like Aries memes. And there's this one where they're like, I'm an Aries, of course I did it. Like, and there was one person who goes, I was like, I'm an Aries, like, of course I love to be in relationships.

And then he's like, you like me back? Like, and just rant runs in the other direction. I think there's a little bit of like the Aries thing, which is like, we like newness. Yeah. Adventure, you know, like excitement. So like the sort of good man, like solid relationship is like Aries, I think a little bit in our head of like,

a little bit like, is this gonna like, is there gonna be something that's gonna keep this interesting or is this the rest of my life? And I think a lot of like fire signs would relate to this. And so for me that those three years was like, oh, I'm actually like really love, I loved being without, because I was so happy alone.

Like that sort of like excitement thing was like, I don't, that's actually not really what's gonna. You're like, I'm exciting. I excite myself. That's right. It's like, I can create my own newness. You and Danny had known each other for 15 years before you guys got together?

I met Danny when I was 23, pregnant with Ryder, and Danny was in high school, yeah. Who made the first move? Danny, yeah, he was very, very slow, slow burn. So slow, I was like, I was like, this is getting, this is weird. Like, is this, is this like a thing or is this like not a thing, you know?

He's really cute. He's really great. That's so cute. I know, he's the best. I honestly, like, I'm, I'm just, it's like, I'm so happy. Good for you. Cause I think it's like incredible when you find, I love when you find people in your life that you like, I'm so happy. Good for you. Cause I think it's like incredible when you find,

I love when you find people in your life that you like, I can tell you're like, you're glowing when you talk about him. I could just like, you know, I really believe that there's a lot of different people in your life that you could have, right? It's like, the options are endless. When people are like, I can't find anybody,

I'm like, you're not looking in the right places. Like there's somebody for everybody. You have to just be open to it. And you have to let the expectation go. Like he's not gonna look the way you want him to look. And he's might not, you know, all this like, this is my vision board. Like be comfortable if the person on your vision board

is the opposite of who the guy you end up falling in love with is. Because I really believe that like part of what stops us from experiencing like great love is that we are shrinking the idea down to something really small so we're not open to. Right, like you may be with someone that's right in front of you,

but you're like, but that's not what I wanted. And you're like, but if it's right, it's right. Don't run away just cause it's not your vision board, bitch. Like throw out Pinterest. That's right, that's right. But it's good to have vision boards, I like it. But like be open to something totally different. What does independence look like for you in a relationship?

Great question. Oh, this question is so important. I think like, it's so hard because communication. I think in order to be truly have like independence, you have to be good communicators. Because everyone's idea of their needs are so different, you know, and I am very independent. The other thing about Danny, he's so like,

he just like lets me be me. And it's like, I could, you know, I could be like, I really wanna go out with my girlfriends tonight and I really wanna be with you. He'd be like, go, babe, go. And I could be out till four in the morning, end up in some thing and come back and be like, oh my God, I had the craziest night, I did it. And he's just totally okay with it, in a good way.

He loves when I'm happy. And if it's the other way around, I'm like, why were you out? Hold on a second. What were you up to? Four in the morning. What could you have been doing? Whose car did you end up in?

No, literally saying. No, but I really did, but like, independence is like what works for you. Like what might work for me doesn't work for him. So in order for me to feel independent, I think you have to communicate what that is. Like my thing is, I just wanna be told, you know? Like just tell me that you're, you know,

where you are, like tell me what you need and then I'm good. What I don't, I have a hard time with like not knowing. Right, right. Some people are fine with not knowing. They're much more comfortable with that, secure with it. My thing's like, if you tell me that you're gonna call me at 11, but you call me at two, like that's gonna not create independence for either of us. No, I think it's a great point.

I could talk about this shit all day long. I love it. I could talk to you forever because I love having insightful conversations where we don't have the same background. So I'm interested to hear like, ooh, like what is your take on this? Yeah, I'm also like a full disclaimer.

I should just wear like, I don't know what I'm talking about. Me either, but it's fine. It's like, for me, I'm also like, I'm saying this, but I also am very happy to be wrong about all of it. No, but women should run the world. So like, okay. This album, I think it's incredible because like I said,

you have an incredible voice, but the songwriting is phenomenal. And knowing that you said you have like hundreds of songs, just like in your house, how did you decide what you were gonna put into this album? We just started fresh. There was no like, I mean, there's two songs on there that I wrote before I started writing with Linda.

And then after we got out of the studio writing with Linda Perry, who was a writer on a lot of it, we went back, Dan and I went back and we kind of, restructured two other songs that I had written before. But it's all like of that time. Yeah. Well, that's why I'm like listening to like the push and pull and moving on.

Like there's a lot, that's why I wanted to talk to you about you and I think that's when people connect the most with lyrics when they get to know someone more. And I'm telling you, my fans fucking love music. So they're gonna be like, okay, now that we know Kate more, the lyrics will... Honestly, it's like such a, it's like, because I waited so long to put something out,

it was really important that it was reflective. So that there was like, for me, that it was where I'm at now, but that there's a story of sort of, you know, a life well-loved. And whether that be with my son, or whether it be in past relationships that didn't work out or where I'm at now in With my Romeo, which was which is you know, and that's just Danny and I wrote that together and but like, you know

that kind of the freedom in that song, you know, and I the freedom in that song, you know? And I have always been a hopeless romantic and I'm gonna take the word hopeless out of it because I actually feel that there's, I'm a hopeful romantic, you know? It's like, and the hardest songs for me to write are the hopeful ones.

And that was so songs for me to write are the hopeful ones and that was so important for me in this because I'm so like my brain loves a depressing song like I I mean if you go into my Vault of music. It's just there's so much depressing shit in there It's crazy and it will come out at some point. I really like Cry crazy and it will come out at some point. I really like, I have to. Okay, we need a good cry. But like for me with this, I wanted it to feel like what the album title is. Like there's, to love fully is a glorious experience

and it comes to you in so many different ways. And like we're talking about, like if you're open to it, then you, you know, you're, then you're, I think you're living a really like well-loved life. As long as you're a good person, treating people respectfully and you're honest. No, I can't thank you enough for coming on. Like I had such a fabulous time getting to know you.

And I'm so excited that I got to sit with you for this long to like talk about all the girl things, but talk about the music because it is intertwined. Like you said, like this is a, this album is about love and like the experiences that you've had. And I think it's inspiring. Honestly, I think some people feel like constrained to like, that was the one love of my life. You can have so many loves of your lives and you can have so many loves and you can love people in different ways and you shouldn't look at back at your past in negative way. Like every chapter is a new chapter and just

like lean in and have a good time. Yeah, and like gonna find out is like about not wanting a relationship. Right, single for a year. It's about being in that, yeah, for three years. You know, that's kind of like a song about when you just wanna like, when you don't that like little, you know,

like spark that you have with someone where you're just like, is this gonna go down, you know? Okay, last question that I know you have to go, what is your favorite song? I have to go make out with a guy. I have one scene to do today. Stop. I'm making out with a total stranger.

What? I've been like really stressing about this. Oh my God, and you're coughing. I have COVID. No, fuck. I'm not telling him. Wait, you have to make out? Like full make out time?

I have to like make out with this random guy. How long? How many days? You will see it on Netflix at some point. Stop. Yeah, I don't know, but I've been like having anxiety over this. How do you get mentally prepared for that?

You just- I don't know, I've never, what I do is I'm channeling Emma Stone in, you know. Poor things. Poor things. Poor things. Okay, you're channeling Emma Stone, poor things. If she could do that.

You can do this. I can do this. Come on. You know what I mean? I can make out with some random guy. Easy. And yeah, so. Well, thank you so much for coming on.

This was truly so fun. This was so fun. You're Well, thank you so much for coming on. This was truly so fun. This was so fun. You're fabulous. Thank you. Thank you.