Call Her Daddy - Katy Perry: Narcissists, Blow Jobs & Red Flags

Episode Date: September 4, 2024

Join Alex in the studio for a sit down interview with Katy Perry. Katy shares her wisdom with the Daddy Gang about what to do when your partner is jealous of you, why you should never shrink yourself for a man, and when it’s time to stop playing games. Katy gushes about her current relationship with Orlando Bloom and even reveals some of her very unexpected turn ons. Finally, she reflects on her ultra-religious upbringing, her rock bottom moment, and what she truly believes saved her life. Enjoy!

what is up daddy gang it is your founding father alex cooper with call her daddy okay here we are here we are katie perry welcome to call her daddy thank you i am so happy my first question for you oh my god she's already turning the tables no is how edible are these are they a prop they are edible they are they are do you refill them we do refill them but i don't know the last time that i've refilled them but i eat from them and i eat the blue mostly what is your favorite sour patch color blue and red blue and red i'm a blue and kind of freak like i'm a green girl you know how crazy it is i saw a meme of like a mom hand that had like only red and pink and she's like I have these so my kids can have these it

was just orange and yellow that's what other colors left I was like that's that's a little you love this here's a little green, you little stinker. Yeah. What is your star sign? Scorpio. Five times. So all of my risings, moons that what does that mean can you give us like the Scorpio rundown um well I'm a I'm kind of a cusp Scorpio with Libra um so Libra to me and this is my paraphrasing there's a lot of other people that are much better at this than I'm gonna even give you right now. Libras are the arts,

liberation. And so I feel very connected to that. They're also very good with reason and organization. And Scorpios are like really intuitive. That's like our secret power is intuition. And being five Scorpios in one, it's like when I walk into a room, that's why it was kind of like we were talking before this and I was looking. I was just getting all these context clues. All that is information for me. To know what kind of person, how far I can go. Am I safe?

Yeah. Are they good? Are they here with me? All that. So Scorpios are very intuitive. And for context, everyone everyone watching like Katie walked in we went through a whole tour of the house she's walking around we got upstairs she's like actually let's go in the backyard we did a whole walkthrough and no one's ever done that with me and I actually

appreciate it because you're like showing that you care and you're interested and you want to know what's up well you're also building a business and so I like to see how you build I like to see your entrepreneurship I like to see what your next steps are. I'm invested, especially in like an alpha female, a female that is self-sufficient, that's taking the lead. I resonate with all of that. Coming from you, I just have to say thank you because I have literally been the biggest fan for forever

and everything that you've built, like no one can say anything other than like you're an icon. So thank you for like taking the time out of your busy life to come here. Seriously. You're one of my, thank you. And you're one of my only interviews because I feel like you get it. You get it. You speak to the people in a way that they want to hear.

You know, you're super relevant and like you're real. Authenticity is really important to me. I kind of grew up in a non-authentic childhood and so I was always looking for like who's the most authentic in the room who's gonna cut all the small talking like look me deep in the eyes and go go straight for it right should we acknowledge my dog that's here I don't know if we should it's a real dog oh my god this is Nugget Nugget um all of my fans know her but if you don't know if we should. It's a real dog. Oh my god. This is Nugget. Nugget. All of my fans know her but if you don't know her her name is Nugget and she's almost 10 years old. She is a permanent puppy. She's a micro teacup so you see a lot of teacup poodles. She is 10 years

old and she's a she's a great dog. I was more of a cat person, and I think I'm actually going to get a cat again very soon. I feel it in my soul. How many cats have you had in your life? Two. What are the names? Kitty Purry. Kitty Purry. Oh, my God.

Wait, that didn't hit until it hit. It hit. Okay. And then the other one was Krusty. Krusty. Krusty. What inspired that? It was a combination of my ex-husband and I's name.

Love. Krusty. Rusty. Krusty. Katie. Krusty. Okay. I don't know.

Yeah. R.I.P. Kitty Purry. But she is kind of like a cat dog in that she travels with me everywhere and she's always on my lap. She looks like she's about to fall asleep. Do you think she will fall asleep during this interview? I don't know.

I don't know. She, I mean, she's a good, she's a good girl. I think that my dogs would get along. But her her breath is is literally like disgusting it's like the inside of an asshole it is so i mean not that i know exactly but maybe we all know what we all know what butt smells like because we all have one we do and i have a child so i really know in another way right right i've changed a lot of diapers. And this is the inside of her mouth. It's like a mouth only a mother could love, you know?

So it's real love. You're like, I really love Nugget. Yeah, she needs another little dental operation. She'll get there. I don't want to put her under too many times. She's so small. We're happy that you brought her because it's giving me, I love dogs. I have two dogs myself.

They're golden doodles. I feel like they'd get along with nugget so thank you for bringing nugget today I want to go through some of your iconic moments because specifically with music videos you are the queen of going all out for these things I'm curious I feel like this is like the hardest question to ask but if you had to pick one of your favorite music videos that you've ever made tell me or you can do top three um okay I like I mean I loved walking onto the set for California Girls it was just like it felt like I was at my own bespoke Disneyland because I had an artist and the director who was great as well. But the artist who kind of looked over the whole thing that made my teenage

dream cover will cotton. He made these props and sets come to life in a way that like, I don't even know. Does it even exist like that? That was a different time, of course. So I loved that one. I loved E.T.

Of course. Um, I do a lot of flying and attempting acrobatics sometimes. Like I have a, another, uh, video coming out where I'm doing a lot of wire work very soon. Yes. That's really fun. But, uh, yeah, I mean, I like, I like world building. I am a big fan of Disney and a huge fan of Walt Disney and the worlds that he created. And just I love this a little escapism. And I think I love it because early on I was trying to create a different reality than what I was born into. And just my imagination would just build these worlds. Yeah.

You know, like Minecraft. I was just building my own worlds all the time. And I think that it's fun to have that release and when people come to a concert especially my concerts it's like a whole it's sensory overload no I was gonna say I think that's like very relatable for anyone that's in the creative business I feel like a lot of us started because we were like imagining things that didn't have to do with like the immediate of what was going on in our lives yes and so you can really run with it

and I think it's been really fun to watch throughout your career like you've maintained a pretty consistent like theme even though everything changes and looks slightly different obviously you're always pushing the creative boundary so you're the type of person because we're going to get to I'm not ignoring everything that you're saying about like your upbringing. Cause I want to get there, but you, you're like, actually, I'm feeling, I'm feeling really good. I love, I I've made so much peace, so much forgiveness, so much wholeness. I'm super happy. Um, but are you, so you're the person that's like, I want to try to like get on the wire and like do the wire work and like do the flips and all of these or is someone being like are you down today Katie oh no I'm in I mean like I'm I'm I'm doing all the stunts and

and sometimes they're like you're not allowed to do that I'm like I'm fine you're fine let me do it I don't like to overthink I'm just like yes and we can do this you know I have a great team I've had from day one wow they are such a a wonderful sounding board and it's been imperative to the success of my career because they are not afraid to say no and or you need to take a beat yeah or and also fuck this noise let's go I was gonna say I feel like that's huge for people in your position to have the right people around that's where the five Scorpios come in right there you go I will no I'm doing this I'm like constantly are you here for all the right reasons you know I'm interested to get into like romantic later to hear that how that plays into

like decision making moments I'm gonna test you I'm gonna test you I'm gonna test you do you really love me do you really love me oh really well how about this did you always from like day one of being a young girl like want to be a famous singer like was that the goal I mean fame never came into my mind I think it's a byproduct of everything that everyone's successful I just wanted to be um seen period end of story and I found my magic trick when I was nine um and I started you know, that was my thing is like I started singing and then the room would freeze. And so I was like, oh, this is interesting. And then I enjoyed it. And I just kind of soothed me. It healed me. My mother called me bird from a very young age because I would sing

myself to sleep when I was little. Then I picked up a guitar at 13. I started singing at church at nine. I started writing my own songs at 13. I made a gospel record when I was 16. And so I always wanted to be on the stage. My father was a minister and he was on some sort of stage. So I always kind of watched that. I had a little bit of an example of that. Got my big break at 23. But before 23, I was in LA at 17.

I was broke. I didn't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out. So what my Southern father would say. But I was hustling. And I was always saying, yes, I can. I'll be there. I'll fill in. Tap me in, coach.

Right? It was struggle bus. I had two cars repossessed. I was signed and dropped by three different labels. People only kind of know me maybe because of Teenage Dream and the whirlwind and success of that and the accolades, blah, blah, blah. But like, I remember very specifically being 19 in my black Jetta that I got, you know, with my, my small allowance that I got when I had first done a first signing, trying to meet friends at the Chateau Marmont. Classic.

Yeah. But parking in some illegal spot somewhere in the neighborhood because I couldn't pay the $20. Obviously. Going there and there's a big fabulous party and it's 14 people at a long table and I sit down, I have a glass of water, a side salad, that's it. And then at the very end, everybody's like,

let's just split the bell. And I'm like, my debit card is like shaking. I am that meme, you know? And so I go into the, I literally go into the bathroom and I just like start crying. I just like, I don't know. And someone ends up taking care of me, but that was every day from 17 to 23 couch surfing, you know, just, just being, just being like, it works. Yes. Go onward. It doesn't work. No onward, you know, but that feels like from what I've like read about you is like, that feels like a theme in your life because prior to being 17, if you go back to your childhood, you've talked about having been on food stamps as a kid.

Yeah, my family had that time. I mean, we were only, by the grace of what the church could offer us, which fluctuated all the time, that was our livelihood. And, you know, it wasn't very much. Can you describe your personality as a kid? I was black sheep. I came out of the womb going, hmm, tell me why, you know, why do you think that is? I'm curious. I'm super curious. And that has been my education. My whole life is my curiosity. And that curiosity has just continued to unravel the layers of life. And, you know, I know myself

so much more because of my curiosity. Um, and so I just was like, nothing was so black and white for me. It was infinite. You know, it just I was like, there's so much more out there. How would you describe your household growing up? My household was a little volatile. There was a lot of stressors, money being theors money being the biggest one the biggest one I think um and having three kids I mean look I have a child and and you want to go okay go ahead I love you go ahead sweetie good job just don't don't take oh you want to go you want to go up there? Hi, sweetie. Okay, you can come up.

I'm not going to lie. I'm feeling a little confident right now. To anyone that's listening and not watching. You're the animal whisperer. Katie's dog has departed off of her chair and I now have nugget. Oh, she's leaving. Goodbye. I love you.

Okay, that was an honor. Bye-bye. So you were saying it was a little volatile. It was a little volatile. Okay. So like I I love you. Okay. That was an honor. So you were saying it was a little volatile. It was a little volatile. Um, okay. So like I have a child and after having my child, I always respected my mother, but the level of respect for my mother, my parents in general, it just went through the roof because I was like, how did you keep us alive without iPads? You told us to look out the window. What were you thinking? I do think my parents with the tools that they had and their own upbringing really did the best that they could. And my mother, you know, she is a saint. She sacrificed every step of the way way she was the last to sit at the dinner

table every single time some of my alpha-ing which is now a lot more in balance is maybe a reaction to all of that like oh we didn't grow up with money I'm gonna make it let's go because I don't ever I don't I'm never gonna be in this position I don't want to feel this feeling again but I'm aware of that now right interesting I chose someone like Orlando because there is a lot more equal energy there and he and he wasn't intimidated by the power and yeah he wasn't he wasn't intimidated no I have so many questions when we get to that of like dating a man that is intimidated by a woman's success is such an interesting dynamic. To close out kind of that, like your parents practice a very strict version of Christianity. Yes. Right.

How did that like impact your day to day life growing up? I went to church on Sunday morning, on Sunday night, on Wednesdays. Have I ever been trick or treating? I think I've been trick-or-treating once. I wasn't allowed to trick-or-treat. Why? It's a pagan holiday and the devil's holiday or whatever, you know. We had a prayer meeting instead.

We didn't even acknowledge it. I wasn't allowed to eat Lucky Charms because luck is derivative from Lucifer. You know, my mom was and still is really good at finding the positive in everything. And I do that. But I think that's the gorgeous part of growing up, right? Is like taking what your parents give you. Yes. And we get to kind of be like, no to this, yes to this, no to this.

And then you make your own reality. They gave me my compass in a lot of ways. They really gave me a lot of integrity. They taught me how to treat people. Did you ever go through a rebellious phase? I'm still in it, baby. The nipple rings. No, I'm not rebelling. I'm just being myself. You know, I'm finding, I'm playing. How was sex and relationships described to you growing up? Like were you, I'm assuming it wasn't too sex positive in the house no no no like Katie get after it girl no no get after it no I wasn't really allowed to even acknowledge the opposite sex okay there wasn't a lot of uh talking about it and that's okay I mean they did

what they knew how to do right I didn't even know how to use a tampon until I was like in high school yeah I didn't even know how they existed I was like do I have eight holes in sex ed they teach you now at school yeah but I didn't have that upbringing I didn't have that education I was kind of homeschooled went to the Christian schools and they didn't really teach that yeah so I was like what is this so I'm like on swim team still wearing a fucking pad I'm like the girls are like girl that's why you're last you're you're have a flotation device let me show you how to like do this I was like oh well this works no I had no other way I didn't know but it was the girlies that helped I was gonna say I want to make every woman feel so seen especially because you're making them feel seen of like

there are so many women that grow up and are completely detached from the belly button down because they're like I don't know what I'm supposed to do down there you never even took a mirror down there never like I mean even to this day guys are like you got to take the tampon out to pee we're like no no no you cannot be president no you just need to go back to biology class why I wanted to kind of just like establish all this to anyone who like didn't know and I I knew you came from a religious background but then one of your first giant hits is I Kissed a Girl. Yeah. Which is a complete departure from what we're talking about. How did this song come to be because I can imagine like what did your family think? Tell me everything. My sister told them that it was coming out. I was like you gotta deliver the message. I moved to LA when I was 17. And it was just, it was, it was just a whole different perspective. Boom. I met

different people. I'm like, Oh, you're not an, you're not a bad person. I grew up thinking you were this way. I was taught this way. Oh, you're not. So I saw more humanity. And then even like traveling around the world. Once I had my success, I was like, whoa, these cultures believe in this and this is how they work. And all this education and all this oneness I feel from really observing people and getting to know them. That was my education at 17 and like that's when really my sexuality started and experimenting and like not having as many rules and restrictions I had those experiences and then I sang about them and I was like oh so your sister told your parents yes no yeah you had everything recorded they had no idea this is coming out well i was 23 at that point so i was

a young adult yeah you know but it was it was tough it was tough for them when any child takes a departure when any child doesn't become the doctor lawyer you know it's tough like i'm gonna have my tough moments too i'm sure even now my daughter sings a song peacock dancing around the house that I wrote as like a double entendre funny song about dicks and I'm like don't sing that song and then you know actually there's been so many people that have sang that song and so many young people that have sang that song and so I want to come on Call Her Daddy right now to say I'm sorry and i and and thank you and we'll get through this together and my karma has now served me i was gonna say you're staring at karma and your little baby girl and you're like oh my god she's doing it yeah she's doing what i bought her a ballerina peacock

outfit from the london zoo and someone in the house put that on because she loves to listen to Roar and Firework. And they're like, oh, you should hear this song. And then it's never been the same. And I've never been the same. But like, you know what, I deserve this. Moving forward. I do deserve this. No, that's adorable. Anyways. So yeah, I mean, sexuality really started for me when I was 17. How would you describe your life changing when things really started to blow up? It was a rocket. It was a real rocket. And it was like, can you hold on? And I wasn't present for some of it. It was really tough to be present for some of it. I was like, you know, every day was a different city. And I'm really just grateful as I sit here at 39, that I'm alive,

that, um, I have tools that, um, I'm grateful. It's the first thing out of my mouth every single day is a gratitude prayer is like the first thing. It's my very first thought. It's the first thing that I say, I I'm grateful. I have a home life, which is a sanctuary, which is an anchor. While I was having all these number ones, my personal life was in shambles, you know? And so like that was totally out of balance. And then it shifted along the way. Now it's been doing this, but that's okay because actually my core is intact. My foundation is intact. My joy is no longer at the mercy of anyone or outside of myself. My joy is within me. But it's been a long journey and there is no there there.

I invest a lot of time and resources into therapy, retreats, evolution, even medicine journeys, all that stuff. I just want to I want to evolve I want to not come back to this prison planet your second album you had five number one singles and at that point no one had done that other than Michael Jackson so like oh my god you are now like the biggest star in the world what type I had no idea by the way what I had no idea and I also like asked my managers I'm like is this normal does this happen to other people because I was like is this like especially as they kept on going I was like is this like what is this right like what's happening what is happening is because I was on tour too I was like I remember asking that question I'm like

is this normal for an artist and they just started laughing at me because obviously they're you know managers that have managed so many people they're like right this is this normal for an artist? And they just started laughing at me because obviously they're, you know, managers that have managed so many people. They're like, right, this is not normal. And I was just like, well, okay. I never even really celebrated being like, I didn't even know how to like take it in. I never knew how to take in compliments, none of it. And I was just like, you don't really like me because I had this imposter syndrome. We see it every few months. Someone rises and it's like, oh my God, they're the most famous, they're the biggest ever. And what I feel like I've literally had so many people sit in that chair and tell me like, I was barely able to comprehend what was happening.

I was just trying to keep my head above water because then everyone starts looking at you. It's a very like unnatural thing. And the talent that you have is now, there are so many more things that come with the talent. I'm like the eyes and the pictures and the tabloids and the gossip. Did you ever put like so much pressure on yourself when you were having that level of success? Like another one, another one?

Or were you more like lenient on yourself? I knew the feeling of what a good pop song made me feel. Like I still know that feeling and whether people resonate with that or not, I still have it when the goosebumps hit, when the tits get hard. I'm like, these are visceral, physical reactions to this freak, this magic frequency feeling. Right. Um, and so, uh, no, I was, I was never chasing anything. I'm just all about creating. I'm a creator. It's worked at times.

It hasn't worked at times. It's been an amazing journey. And it's really a journey for me to evolve. You know, that everybody else is kind of on this, like watching, but it's really just about this is my life. And this is my game. and this is how I'm living it and and some people are learning it and some people like take these songs that I write mostly out of like if I when I wrote Firework and and Roar I wasn't feeling that way I was

actually feeling the complete opposite and it's like what is going to pull me out of this depressive state what is going to pull me out of this depressive state what is going to pull me out of this sadness I'm going to write a song that's hopefully going to encourage me and then it encourages so many yeah like a generation and it becomes this ripple effect I mean the fame has always just been a byproduct and I see a lot of people going through it now and I reach out to a lot of those young ladies and I'm like yo there's not a lot of people that have been through this so if you ever want to like have a very discreet you know tea indoors let's do it let's talk let's vent like I kind of know what they're going through it's a different landscape now so I don't want to

assume that like I know everything. But I think the feelings are probably very similar. Like the loneliness, so many people staring at you, you being expected to hold yourself to a certain standard that no one is even teaching you. You just kind of have to figure it out. Yeah. There's no rule book. There's no playbook really.

Because no one you're talking to is going to give you the advice that has been through it. I didn't really have like examples growing up and nor did I have an education. So I've just been like, all right, let's learn. Let's fail. And I fail in public. I make mistakes in public. And I'm like, okay, well, I made a mistake. Let's keep, let's go.

Let's go. I mean, that's the tough thing is is sometimes you know this thing doesn't allow you to learn and the process of learning anything is by trying and not acing it yeah but it's interesting Katie when you're talking about that because you're a human being and you're this like mega pop star and so you've referenced it a couple times and I want to go there of like your 20s while you're on this insane rise to fame, you're also trying to figure out your personal life.

Can you just lightly talk to me about like you in your romantic life in your 20s? Like what was that? What was going on in your romantic life in your 20s like what was that what was going on in your life then well i've always been been monogamous. And I've always looked for partnership and for someone to witness me. I even called a record witness because of that feeling. So I wasn't doing very many one-night-stand type things.

And I didn't do a lot of dating. And I met people in my industry. but I was always looking for long-term monogamy that's what I related to and long distance really worked for me what do you think you were like as a partner like in a relationship oh when though what time of life because in your early 20s in my early 20s what were you like as a partner? I was really, I was wild. But I was on a crazy wild ride that probably made me very moody. I mean, I was also zipping all over the world for a day here, a day there, and my circadian rhythm was completely upside down.

So there was a lot of other factors to bring into the equation of me being you know whatever hot fiery personality as well did you have a type do you have a type I really value presence I value loyalty I value adventure so Orlando and I are super adventurous. We just like literally jumped out of a helicopter together into the water. I mean, he's way, way more adventurous. I mean, he has no fear threshold. I'm like, I'm good. My karma is good.

I don't need to press my luck. I value humor. I value lightheartedness. I value problem solving. I value playfulnessfulness like to be playful is so important is so important imagination and playfulness that is to me intelligence that is to me like the currency that I I look for I value strength but not just like like there's a lot of people that can be powerful and like strong in the world but crumble personally in behind you know in their private lives and like they could be man

children you know they could be stunted at 12 they could be man children yes i've dated a man many men and they and those and some of those guys have like a lot of outward success they're financially like you know fun but like they're they're like they're that's the thing it's about balance and that's the thing for me is like I didn't have that balance either I was like oh my god number ones number ones and then also you know going through a divorce and and like not knowing which way was up really when you look back at previous relationships like what are some red flags that you now know as the katie perry sitting here are like oh i maybe avoided those or i maybe ignored those but now i look i'm like i've never put up with that now anyone that is constantly changing the goal post or pulling the rug out

from you emotionally, not it. They just don't have their stuff. They don't have it figured out. So how can they be a team player with you? Anyone that says that they know you better than you know yourself? So rough. You're like, whoa.

Okay, I've lived in this body from day one. Like we've been dating for a couple of years, you know what I'm saying? Or whatever. Anyone that won't show up for you. Like I was in a relationship at one point where they never came to anything that I did. I was on a big tour. They never came to one show, like not and it was like really like this they just won't show up for i don't know what reason that was they just couldn't handle me in boss mode of sorts quite possibly um and yeah those are some red flags and then also like someone that won't just help yeah help around the house like share the load or help the load be lighter the load can be so heavy for women and there's so many

invisible things that we do and it's couples therapy and we want to evolve. That's like I think why we're in our relationship is to become better humans so that we can raise this beautiful human being. One of my love languages is acts of service. So it's like if I come downstairs and the kitchen is clean and you've done it all and you've done all the dishes and you've closed all the pantry doors you better you better be ready to get your dick socks i mean like literally that is my love language i don't need a red ferrari i can buy a red ferrari just do the fucking dishes it's not easy sorry don't you know it's facts it's facts and even when we went on like a couple's retreat they're like which guy has more sex the guy that drives the ferrari the red ferrari or the guy that helps out with his wife every night in the kitchen in the kitchen was the answer

in in the kitchen and Orlando knows all that and yeah And he hears me. And he meets me there now. He does the dishes. Ladies. I mean, well, we are fortunate to have a housekeeper. But on the weekends, he knows that that's important. It means. And I. OK.

There's so many things to say. Also, if you can afford to get an electric toilet, get a fucking electric toilet. Get a Roomba thing that just cools around the home. Yeah, get a Roomba. Get a Roomba get a boomba all of a sudden choose your battles choose your battles men listening get a room but you're gonna have so much more sex so much more sex the room stock price toilet seat goes down by itself so much more sex so much it only turns on you when you have like a hangover and you're throwing up and the toilet seat just goes down. It keeps going down.

Katie. It's so dark. Katie. You're like, I'm so successful. Bonk. I'm not done. I'm not done throwing up. Gonk.

Okay. Rewinding for a second because I think it's so important what you just said for women listening is the feeling of I have had someone say that to me before. I know you better than you know yourself that is a full manipulation tactic to make you question every fucking thing you're doing so if anyone is hearing that in their life right now that is a red flag we're here to tell you like that's a red flag and typically they'll follow up with like if you leave me you're gonna have a really hard time or your life is gonna change or it's gonna be shit and so question yourself you're gonna have a really hard time or your life is gonna change or it's gonna be shit and so question yourself you're like what i mean does do they you know like i was fine before i met you yeah kind of kind of kind of there are there have been some relationships that have

really helped me orlando in in for one i was going through a really tough time in 2018 and he was not shook wow and i showed him the worst of me. I was like, here's the next test. I'm going to show you the craziest bitch you've ever seen. And he's like, I ain't shook. And I'm like, you're my baby daddy. I was like, if you're not shook by this, then we're going the distance. Right, let's have a kid.

No, we're going to get to Orlando because it's like from, I feel like I'm talking to a lot of my friends recently who are in these positions where it's like, is this person the one or is it time to move on? And that is so scary because like you build lives with someone, right? But I think relationships are just about growing. And if you're not growing, both of you, if you've stopped growing with a person or you've graduated, it's time to go. You know, it's time to go. If that person a person or you've graduated it's time to go yeah you know it's time to go if that person doesn't want to grow it's time to go it's I don't know about ones I think it's just about are you on a journey do you want to evolve together like in previous relationships some people didn't want to do any of the work together and it's like we're really just here to sharpen each other yes we we are each other's mirrors and we see like both the best and the worst because you in your partnerships they see the absolute worst version

of you so it's then their responsibility to help show you that in a loving way that like you don't need to operate out of that you know so true and like yes it's so hard to get out of things that aren't right for you anymore. But we all watch our friends. Especially if you're like partners on YouTube or if you're like, if you've got a platform together, you've got all this invested business together. And you know, like. You have an apartment together.

You have furniture together. You have whatever you have. All of it. And then you're like, how do I get rid of this? And it's like. Or if you have a child together, that's the next step. You know, it's like that's. There's a lot of people that have had children they're like well I'm gonna stay in this for 15 years you know I know it's complicated but it is you talking about your experience is so

helpful because it's like life goes on and it actually is better to be happy than to stay in something that you're not happy in but trying trying to make it all work? Well, happiness is relative because it's really about, it's not about happiness. It's about evolution because life is hard. Life is not peachy keen jelly bean. People get sick. You know, people have accidents. Life sucks sometimes. It's about what you make of those moments it's like how do

you find the opportunities of growth how do you find the positive it's it's not just happiness it's not just dopamine it's it's it's it's equanimity it's finding the light in the darkness you're so right it's like finding that person that you want to go through those really hard times with like that's yeah that's what a relationship is like going to stand the test of time for however long you want to last. If they're not shook, if they don't leave, you know. I want to ask you another question that you mentioned about, you know, being a boss and being so successful and how intimidating that can be to partners and I'm sure like you kind of just mentioned you've been in relationships where and I've been in it where I've dated guys that I'm like oh my god you're so intimidated by my success and they don't even know how to verbalize it and for a minute if you're not in the best place like I've been there where I for a moment was like oh should I dim

myself more should I maybe not I have dimmed right I have dimmed you dim because you're like you can't see it you also want to play the game play a role not be too much so you're like okay like maybe i should take off this day so he feel what and now i'm taking up space bitch i'm taking up space and it's like you can't win with those people and i feel like it's hard with the there's one girl listening and she's like they're talking to me I have to go they're talking to me I have to get out of this but that's what's so crazy about this show is like I legit Katie have people after this will dm me being like you guys were talking to me like if you are with a partner that is so intimidated by your success

no and you keep making yourself smaller you're not with the right partner have you ever heard of someone say your partner should be saying I'm so proud of you, babe. Can I do anything to help you? I'm so proud of you. Even if it sounds like, even if they're saying it, like they're clocking in sometimes, they're like, because you know this is my love language, you know, vocalizing. It's like, thanks for saying it. I appreciate it. And not making it feel like, oh my God, I have to quickly finish because like he's going to be mad. or I have to hide my success or I can't celebrate I've been in relationships where I've had number ones where like I've been you know or or or won things or gotten to like big parts of my life or made my first like

million dollars or whatever where I like do I tell them do I not tell them like do like do I just slightly like you know what I'm saying like crazy yeah it's and what's crazy is like you're sitting here everyone in the world is like you're so successful you financially career-wise you know with your life they must so many people I bet are like you had to dim your success for man it literally comes up everyone everyone it's a human experience nobody yeah I mean I mean I also remember I wasn't born into any of this like this is like all a product of my of my talent and my hard work and my hustle you know so like not that not that people that were born into something don't have that because they do because they they actually have a bigger

crust to bear and they have to fight in a different way I think everybody has to play this human game whether they like it or not insecurity and like going through the waves of a career you referenced earlier earlier Witness. And in 2017, you released Witness, the album, and it didn't chart as high as your other ones. And I think this is also going to be helpful to other women listening of like, in moments where you are competing with yourself and comparing yourself to what you've done in the past versus, oh my gosh, this didn't do as well. Like, how did that affect you and your self-worth and your career? And like, where was your head out during that time? Oh, it was just universe's way of

saying, oh, you preach a really strong message of self-love. Let's see, baby. So I was like, oh, okay, here's the real lesson. Let's see. And it's interesting. I heard like when ships, you know, big, these big ships out in the ocean, they go off one degree off chart. They land on a different continent. And yes, like at that time, things were changing by like small degrees. And I felt like I was on a different continent because I had only experienced, you know, my before success. It was like, am I enough? I'm going to show experienced, you know, my before success. It was like, am I enough?

I'm going to show you. Proof, proof, proof. I was right. I was fucking right. Let's go. And then it shifts and it changes and it settles for everyone. There's maybe a couple. It doesn't.

But like it settles and hold on tight because life is all about peaks and valleys the valleys are where you sow the seeds the peaks are where you enjoy the views and the fruits but you wouldn't even know the light cannot exist without the darkness I had a really big shift I had cut my hair because I didn't want to do this cutesy pinup girl thing that I had done previously. I wanted to really experiment with different sounds. I just wanted to go into a different zone as an artist, which I am first and foremost. And so I was like, well, how do I do that? Well, I'm going to change the look. I'm going to cut everything. I'm going to go. People that were used to being fed a certain thing they were they got fed a different thing and they're

like oh that's different I like it kind of I mean like when I go to a restaurant and I like my favorite dish like don't change any ingredients keep it right on the menu I want this thing every time but you're also a human being and then you have talked to me about how you are a creative yeah so it's like would I do want to lightly try something different and then people are like uh-uh you're like yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah but how do you deal with that well it's my life and that I'm gonna live it now I've come to I'm almost 40 and this is my life I've realized I'm gonna live it living. I appreciate you like talking also about you talking about how like you came from your childhood fighting you got to where you are you went through what is so normal and natural in your 20s figuring out your romantic relationships figuring out your partners half of the reason we choose certain partners is because of what

we're dealing with on the inside with our own selves we're trying to resolve yes that's why we're attracted to that and then you're no... No longer attracted to narcissists. No, I feel like I'm actually not into the narcissist Alice anymore. Not really. You find Orlando. What initially drew you to him? His adventure spirit. He's got a free spirit. He's super healthy and he wants me to be healthy. Sometimes that can be annoying but um it's all for the good he shows up he is loyal he's a Capricorn he's not scared I don't know I don't know if this Capricorn trait is for everyone but what I've noticed and what he resonates with is that like he can get his hands dirty you know he's he he loves the elements. He's spontaneous. And he checks a lot of boxes.

And not one person is going to check all the boxes. You know what I'm saying? Was it an initial spark or was it a slow burn? It's been different layers. The more we do the work, the more we find the next level. And sometimes we get stuck and we're like, okay, well, let's the work and this is gonna be annoying and I don't want to do it and we don't have the time and I'm tired but we're gonna do it but we're gonna do it and then we find the next level and that's that's why we're continuing in the relationship I know you guys

broke up for almost a year at one point what led to that decision um it was really interesting I mean we met over an in-and-out burger mostly at the Golden Globes he stole one off of my table and I was like excuse me and then like his hand went and grabbed one I was like okay you can have one you're gonna have one Orlando Bloom hello hey um and we had met before then but it really locked then I actually had like I'd done a little spell before I went that night I would like wore I had wore pink rose quartz I had wrote written down the things I was looking for in a partner under a full moon burn it up let it go into the to the ash you know spread it everywhere cleanse my crystals um but um so and and and and it came but it wasn't and we and we and we manifested it and then what was the question i was how did you

guys decide to break up oh we so what happened was we weren't we weren't like like really in it from day one i mean he was in a way because he had just done a huge time of celibacy and he had set intentions and I was fresh out of a relationship and I was just like, I can't do this anymore. I need to go into a swim in a different pond. But I had yet to do a lot of like some real work. He went to this place called the Hoffman Process, which is a place, a retreat you go to for a week. And you rewire the way you think about yourself. And it helps you rewire all the bad habits and the rewires your neural pathways through different physical activities. So there's no like medicine or plant medicine. It's literally just like scientists and therapists that have put together programming that help you quiet that imposter

syndrome and also find that new kind of awaken yourself and find that mode you know that reborn mode so he went there and then he came back and he wasn't like playing this cat mouse game anymore with me and I was like this is boring I'm moving on because I'm so used I was so, oh, this is boring. I'm moving on. Because I'm so used, I was so used to this like push-pull. Right. Because I was like, once you have it, then you're like, ugh. I was playing games. It's addicting, yeah.

Yeah, I was playing games because it was a dopamine hit, right? And it's what I knew and things like that. So I had a really tough year and I finally went to Hoffman towards the end of that year that we were separated. And then I got the tools and spoke the same language.

And it changed my life. It saved my life. I would be dead without it. I would not be on this planet without that process. Why do you think that? And meditation. Because the noise got so large. When Witness came out and things started to shift, and I thought I really loved myself,

and I thought I really had that center, but actually that core was all created from outside validation everything started changing and then I and I went to this process and like it changed my life it just helped me rewire how I think about myself and it helped me connect my head to my heart that's like even what this album is about one four three it's coming out September 20th. And that means I love you. And that's my angel number. I don't know if anyone ever knows what that is, or you needed an affirmation or a sign or a symbol from some somewhere else to know that you're on the right path or whatever. We were going through a really challenging medical situation that was causing me a lot of anxiety. And then I started seeing 143 everywhere.

And it's like on a receipt in a parking spot, random, random, random, like crazy, not even on your phone. Cause I get it. We see 1111 a lot, you know, we do. And I looked it up and it's just, it's the digital. I love you from back in the day, you know? And I, and I just was like, Oh, this is just my angel self saying, I got you. I want the best for you. I love you. Communicate with me.

Commune with me. Commune with me. You sitting here saying like, if I had not gone away to this program, I don't think I would be here. I would not. If you could say something to that woman that was in that spot,

what would you say to yourself right now? I wasn't in my right mind. So I don't know if I could. And there's a lot of people that are, that do have some moments where they're either extremely depressed or extremely anxious, and they're not really in that balanced right mind. So they're like, I don't even know what to do. The first thing I did 15 years ago was actually the best thing I did, which is learn a tool like meditation, having access to meditation. Everyone has their own thing that works for them to get them through tough times. Yoga, dance, get into your body, out of your mind. Did you in Orlando talk while you guys were like kind of not broken up or no? Ish, kind of. He was boundaried. Who initiated getting back together?

I was doing a show that was close to where he was on vacation and I was like, I'll pop over. But I had promised that I was going to do the Hoffman process, but I literally was in a bad state and I like needed his, I needed his, he's got, you know, we all have our strengths and then our opportunities for growth. But one of his strengths are when I crumble, he can step in and be that anchor. That's amazing.

Because I'm usually just alpha, alpha. You know, I'm like testosterone, testosterone. I got this. I got this. I don't need any help. But actually, I do need help. I do need a partner. And, um, I got me.

Oh, Katie. I went on a, um, a guided journey the other day. And for as strong as I am, I was like, no, I do need, I do need, I do have needs. And I do need help sometimes. So it was, it was a beautiful revelation. It was the one thing I got. And I did that like last week, like I can be so strong, but yeah, like everybody needs help

being a mom. Yeah yeah how has it changed your life everything it was it was the view I was looking for I mean I appreciate and enjoy and I probably again would not know that that was the view I was looking for unless I climbed other mountains you know I literally got the opportunity to climb Mount Everest and I planted my fucking flag in Everest not actually not literally but like teenage dream is that massive mountain and I had it and I did it and then I tried to climb other mountains and I loved those views but like then I was like wow god there's got to be something else and I had my child and it was like, this is all the love I was ever looking for. And there's a song on the album that is called All the Love. And I wrote it out of that.

I was like, you know, I was at a place where I was like, oh, I guess I'll be OK with not feeling that intense love or not. I mean, I have an intense love with Orlando. It's a beautiful love. But I feel like a soulmate can come in any form. It could come, you know, you could be soulmates with your mother. You could be soulmates with your sister. You could be soulmates, you know, with your daughter or your son or your dog. Even that, you know, people like before they have kids and they have a dog, they're like, how am I going to love anything more than I love this dog?

Sweetheart, wait for it. It just, it shifts. It changes. I mean, when she came into my life and she is a true King, she is a real King. She's very strong-willed, very outspoken, beautiful, and such an empath. She's very heart-centered. I mean, on the playground, at the beach, when we were in London, there was a girl that fell and literally she gave her lollipop to her. And I was like, you love lollipops. You gave her, you gave her lollipop away to her. And it just made her so, it made the little girl that fell feel so good.

And so Daisy is such a kind empath and cares and worries about the world. And she's got a great intuition as well. She's my gift, I think, for doing all that work too. We intentionally brought her into this world. We knew we wanted to have a child. We knew we were going to, okay, let's do it. Let's do it as a celebration of all the work that we've done together and create this being. And so she's the gift. She is exactly what I get for doing that and I'm continuing to do the work and so there is no there there but it you know if you get the opportunity it seems like it's like the biggest cliche in the world is to procreate but it's the reason why people still do it and they've done it it's everything so I feel like I'm I'm operating from such a

more whole place you know the biggest lie that artists are ever told is that we have to stay broken to create so true because if we go to therapy it's going to change me it's going to turn me into a different person that is a lie from the pits of hell you'll become a different person you will evolve a better person a more centered person yeah and so from for the first part of my life into my I would say my 30s I was operating on you know just pain gas and then the car lit on fire and I was like I gotta get out of here or else I'm gonna get devoured and now it's a totally different it's like it's electric now I'm going to get devoured. And now it's totally different. It's like it's electric now. I'm so happy for you because you can,

I like see the way that you're lighting up when you're speaking about her and it's like so inspiring and I'm so happy for you that that woman in 2017 like pushed through and did the work and found herself and like got the help you needed and found the way to get to where you are now

because you have created this beautiful life outside of yourself and it's a sanctuary and it's beautiful and I'm so grateful for it because I didn't have it and I know what it I know what it feels like to be all career all that yeah and to not have it and to be like coming home at the end of the night literally like so lonely so sad and everybody in the world thinks you're just like yes honey kill slay boots the house down you're like I'm so sad I don't know anyone to celebrate you know nobody sees nobody sees me and then now to have like this foundation this core like I take my daughter to school on a bicycle yeah I like we go to preschool sometimes on a bicycle and I'm just like I'm literally that Leonardo DiCaprio meme where I'm sitting outside with my face in the sun just going like I'm like

a Labrador dog just like yes this is living I've never felt so free as I do on a bicycle with the beach and my hometown and all happiness fine happiness one four three i always wanted to make a record like this there's a lot of um kind of dance pop rhythmic i would say um because when i go out into the world i want to dance with everyone what is your favorite song on the album if you had to choose that's the worst question i know but if you had to choose for the daddy gang to go listen to one thing when this comes out what are we listening to i guess i would say all the love because it also encompasses this conversation and the journey of like me looking for a love me finding the love me you know having the love inside me all along and tapping into that with me having a child,

there is poetry in every moment. Everything is new again. It's like, I get to relive life through her eyes. I will also say what I really like about 143 is I feel like you have this like, great range. Like when I was listening to gorgeous and like love competitors and I, I'm P yeah, I just feel like KP KP, you have such great range. We're like love competitors and I I'm yeah I just feel like KP KP you have such great range where like that's what I'm listening to and I'm like getting ready to go out with the girls like there's just it's great I really wanted to make a record that was celebratory full of love light joy hope and and BPM because get out of your head, get into your body, get into your heart, dance, sweat out those toxins, feel yourself, like embrace your sexuality, like find your feminine divine, all

of that. I do want to ask you about one collaborator in particular. I know a lot of people have expressed disappointment and were really upset that you decided to involve Dr. Luke on this album. Why did you choose to work with him? Look, I understand that it started a lot of conversations and he was one of many collaborators that I collaborated with. But the reality is it comes from me. The truth is I wrote these songs from my experience of my whole life going through this metamorphosis. And he was one of the people to help facilitate all that. One of the writers, one of the producers. And I am speaking from my own experience. Like when I speak from, when I speak about woman's world, I speak about feeling so empowered now as a mother,

as a woman, giving birth, creating life, creating another set of organs, a brain, a heart. I created a whole ass heart and I did it and I'm still doing it and I'm still a matriarch and feeling really grounded in that. That's where I'm still a matriarch and feeling really grounded in that that's where I'm speaking from and so I created all of this with several different collaborators people that I've collaborated with from the past from teenage dream era all of that in working with the same collaborators throughout your career how do you think you've evolved as an artist I feel like I've always been authentic in, you know, trying different genres, investigating different sounds. I don't think I've ever been inauthentic.

I don't think I've like went for a trend or anything. I just do what makes me happy and that I resonate with and that gives me those chill bumps. And even more so now, like, I don't feel like I have to make music. I don't feel like I have to prove anything. I'm doing it now from a place of celebration and love. I cannot thank you enough for coming on. Thank you. I wish the best for you. I hope the best, not wish, I hope the best for you.

I know you're on an incredible journey. You're a young lady that is got a lot of attention and a lot of new success. And just remember your compass. Stay true. Keep your friends. I've had the same. I've had some of the same friends for 20 years. Yeah.

Same. You know, and just keep those people around. The people that tell you no, you keep them closer. You say why? And maybe not, like, okay, maybe not. But like, just keep them closer and just, you know, get those tools. Go investigate meditation. Like there is a reason why it's been around forever because it works.

Be connected to divine. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We did it. We did it.