Call Her Daddy - Nico Tortorella

Episode Date: September 15, 2021

This week, Father Cooper sits down with Nico Tortorella. Nico is both an accomplished actor and author. In June of 2016, Nico came out as sexually fluid, and in their book, Space Between, they wrote, “I am comfortable today calling myself a queer, nonbinary, bisuexual, happily married, polyamorous/non-monogamous human being.” In this interview the pair dives deep into Nico’s life and discusses topics ranging from sex and sexuality to overcoming alcoholism. Father Cooper and Nico also discuss polyamory and how Nico’s polyamorous relationship with their partner Bethany has evolved over time. Why is the hotel where the interview is occurring triggering to Nico...they’ve had sex all over it?! Daddies - enjoy an episode that is both vulnerable and simultaneously hilarious.

What is up, Daddy Gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper, with Call Her Daddy. And five, six, seven, eight. Hello, hello, hello. We. Hello, everyone. This week, this week, I had the honor of sitting down with Nico Tortorella. Nico is an accomplished actor in both film and television. If you are not familiar with the show Younger, I am obsessed. Nico plays the role of Josh, who is a straight tattoo artist, but that is acting. In real life, Nico came out as sexually fluid in 2016. And in their book Space Between, which was released in 2019, they wrote, quote, I am comfortable today calling myself a queer, non-binary, bisexual, happily married, polyamorous, non-monogamous human being. Daddy gang, we are going to talk more about that today and Nico's experience with polyamory, which we've

never discussed on Call Her Daddy. Nico uses the pronoun they and so does their spouse Bethany. What I have been realizing in recent interviews is that I'm so lucky and fortunate, sorry to sound corny, but it's true, that I get to sit down with guests with so many different life experiences outside of my bubble. And I'm realizing kind of in the last month or so that in the best way, this is forcing me to learn. And I would go as far to say also adjust my perspective on things. And I'm here for it. So thank you, Nico, for creating such an open dialogue in this interview. At one point, Nico turns to me in the interview and asks, Alex, would you be comfortable dating and being in a relationship with a bisexual man? The question caught me off guard. And I think you'll be surprised by my answer. The moment we wrapped the interview and Nico left the hotel room, I felt different. And I hope you guys feel the same afterwards. Here is Nico Tortorella. can i give you a hug oh my god it is so nice to meet you i'm alex nice to meet you thanks for

coming thanks for having me i'm really excited about this i'm having ptsd being in this hotel right now why exposure we'll get into it okay oh my gosh i'm so sad because i live in la now this is the first interview i've done this season not in my house So like this is like a new vibe for me. I'm used to like sitting on my couch But like I'm sad you couldn't come hang but I'm happy that we're here. Yeah, I'm so glad this worked out Thank you for having me. Of course. Where did are you you're in New York? Are you living in New York? I live here Yeah, I've been here Over 10 years you are partaking in fashion week. I have yes how's it going it's been comical i would

say um why you know i think 2020 just changed everything for everybody right it flipped the script and there was like a priority reset and to i mean this is my first week, like back in real public spaces, right? Like celebrating not only fashion, but like fame and riches in a new way. Now it just feels different. Yeah. Do you like it or do you wish you could go back a little bit to the old life of like no one really knowing who you were? We just segued.

I know. I didn't need to get that deep that fast. No, that's a great question. It's also been interesting because this has been like the first couple weeks that I've been in public without a mask on, like in like real public situations. It's been nice being recognized again. There's something really beautiful about it. And like because I play myself and other people on

television, right? People have this preconceived notion that like, I'm Josh, which I'm not, there are parts of me that are very much so his vice versa. But like, I'm so much more than that, right? And people forget that. But like, you know, I, and I'm sure you understand this too, like, it's a really raw vulnerable space to live in i always knew i was gonna it was going to happen though here we go let's get into it let's get it so we're going back to the beginning you grew up in the suburbs of chicago in an italian household can you paint the picture and describe to us like your childhood the house did you share a bedroom did you have a dog like paint young nico and the life so we your childhood, the house, did you share a bedroom? Did you have a dog?

Like paint young Nico and the life. So we all lived on the same block. There were two houses in the same block. My mom and her sister lived across the street. I had two cousins, three cousins that were like my brothers and sisters. I grew up with my brother in the house, Rocco. My grandma lived in the basement

who was a gold dealer, antique extraordinaire, hence all of the jewels that I'm wearing. And, I mean, my mom's my best friend. She was one of my best friends growing up. My brother and I are super close. My parents got divorced when I was four, so I lived with my stepdad and my family across the street. And it was just like we were all always together. In the book, you discuss male figures in your life leaving. Yes.

Uncle, father. Can you- Yes, research. We love a researcher. Can you describe how that affected and shaped you at a young age? What age did your dad leave? When I was four. I remember the day specifically. I remember being in the kitchen and it was a pretty modest home. I mean, I'm definitely

from like upper middle class neighborhood. And I went to school with like some of the richest kids in the country, right? But like we were on the other side of the tracks. My dad was a, he worked public works. So he like drove a garbage truck and all the men in my family are like firemen. So we're like from a different cut. Right. And I remember being in the kitchen. I remember like standing in the middle of the two of them. My grandma was at the base of the stairs. The two of them were having an argument and I would always sleep in my dad's room. My, my mom and dad pretty much always had separate bedrooms for as long as I can remember. And I would always sleep in my dad's room my my mom and dad pretty much always had separate bedrooms for as long as I can remember and I would always sleep in my dad's room and I remember the

night that like I went in there and he wasn't there and like that was it like heartbreak so you didn't see him leave you just went I'm sure I did yeah like I don't have that memory of him like driving away he moved not far away he moved like a couple miles away um to an apartment above a bar he was bartending for a little bit my mom owned a bar bars were the big part of my life growing up i basically grew up in a bar oh wow i started serving shots at like five and six years olds very young it was like a cheers bar it was like the same guys every day that were in there and like i had relationships with them. Like, you're like, Hey, Bob, want a shot? Oh, fully, fully, like that's how it was.

So when your dad left, how did that affect you? Um, I mean, there was for sure a hole left right right in my heart like in my spirit um i i don't really remember the there's a lot of like blank periods in my childhood i don't know if you can you know are familiar with that at all um my stepdad came not that long after like within a couple years and my mom was dating and i spent i spent a lot of time with guys that she was dating and but like i didn't know that they were necessarily dating like it was a lot of the bar guys were just like always around okay and then my stepdad came and he was like totally opposite of my dad um irish catholic worked on the floor of the uh chicago mercantile exchange she was a trader like totally different energy um and he was also like a professional uh not body lifter but like um uh what's the word

that i'm thinking of lifting very heavy weights not a bodybuilder but uh yeah he's like hates when i say bodybuilder because that's not what he was i am not a bodybuilder you're like yeah yeah uh power lifter that's what it's called power lifter yeah so he was a fucking beast yeah like big gay energy too but like not there at all and he like always wore he had this like little tiny stripe bathing suit that we that he would wear on vacation and it was like he looked fucking amazing in it right but like he would order all these things i don't know if you've ever heard of international mail the like catalog back how old are you i'm 27 27 this is like definitely before okay your day there was this catalog that like all the garish men would order their clothes from and he always had it in the bathroom and it was like a

bunch of like hot naked dudes in like little thongs dick out just like in the bathroom and it was like a bunch of like hot naked dudes in like little thongs dick out just like in the bathroom is where he would order all of his underwear from but he's like not gay at all right like super straight like a little machismo like throw around gay slurs like it was nothing but not like homophobic um but like that was my first introduction to like sexualized men would you like go into the bathroom yeah for sure what was your relationship to your or is your relationship to your biological younger brother i mean he's one of my best friends okay yeah he's a lot like my dad actually okay the only thing that my brother can see is right in front of him sometimes i wish i did live more like my brother and my dad and like

I I didn't always have to unpack everything everything it's like all like I am constantly all day every day in the spiral and it's fucking brilliant and beautiful and like I it I thrive in it and but like I the human experience is struggle, right? And trauma. And sometimes you feel like overburdened. Right. Like my mom is a psychologist. So I grew up in my household.

It was like, well, how do you feel about that? And so I've been like very trained to like get to the root, go deeper. There's always another layer. Like I kind of get what you're saying in that spiral of constantly thinking. Totally. We're going to get deeper on that because we're cruising through the childhood. So I was going to ask you growing up, was your household sex positive? Aside from seeing the magazines.

It was straight sex positive. Oh, wow. My mom bought me a Playboy when I was like seven years old. We were like in the family pantry and I like picked up a Carmen Electra Playboy. And she was like, oh, you want that? I was like, yeah, like, sure. Like if it was a woman, it was cool, right? Any conversations about same sex or like, you know,

outside perspectives, off limits. I remember the first time I like even realized being gay was a thing. I was in the back of my mom's car and I was like, I don't understand why two men or two women would ever be together like they can't have babies right isn't that why we're here we're here to procreate like that was like my basic early understanding of sex

and she was like what are you talking about it's not about having kids like two men fucking holding hands is disgusting and I was like oh it's like that oh okay and that was like the first understanding that I had of alternative relationships she's my mom has come a very long way i'm just gonna preface like she's my best friend in the entire world yeah but that was your first interaction yeah that was i just didn't

they they never knew any queer people like at least not no i get that generation and then like being raised it's it's yeah there's, there was such a lack of openness and fluidity back then. There just wasn't language for it in the same way there was today. Right. There is today. Like my, the men in my family are very queer, like inherently feminine. And, but it has nothing to do with sexuality.

Right. And like, or even identity for that matter. Like it's, the women ran the house. but it has nothing to do with sexuality, right? Or even identity for that matter. The women ran the house. They were like Italian women held everything together. And my dad's super effeminate. And there was like a big chunk of time where I hadn't seen my dad. We just kind of like separated for years.

And the first time I saw him after, it was probably, it was over five over five years first time i saw him um i surprised him at his house and we wound up drinking together it's the first time we like really drank together and we got fucking hammered and like i see my dad sitting at this kitchen table like legs crossed fingers flare just flailing fl flailing, flailing, flailing, like fancy fingers. I'm like, oh my God, like, I am yours. And that was never a thing that I even thought about growing up until I started unpacking like identity, right? Was there ever an instance when you were growing up where you felt out of place? Like, was it high school? Like, when were you like, huh? Like, I don't agree, actually, or feel what they're saying. I don't identify with that well when my mom said that about two men holding hands it was definitely like oh like I don't think that's gross right like I I understand that I am different immediately

and I mean I was an actor I was a hockey player first hockey player and lacrosse player super really yeah bro yeah love hockey love you've dated some hockey players haven't you yes and my dad works for the nhl so i grew up and i'm like hockey yes oh i lived on the ice for sure i was a mascot for a little bit love a good mask love a good mascot i was a dog i was rusty the dog for the chicago steel which is um a hockey team and then when did you know you wanted to start acting so my mom was basically like hey i want both my boys to be a little more outgoing, extroverted than they are. Let's get them in the theater. There was a local audition for The Wizard of Oz Children's Theater, which was like less than a mile from my house. I went in.

We both got cast as munchkins. And like, that was it. I quit playing hockey immediately. I was like, oh, this is where I belong. This is my space so you were popular in high school i was i was stoned in high school all the time yeah did you ever get in trouble for it ever get caught i got arrested a couple times i got arrested my fucking high school graduation i have not been invited back to the high school all like all of the alumni

like beck bennett went to my high school from snl like right there are a lot of working people from my high school my the the this uh the acting coaches a few years ago brought alum i can't believe i'm even fucking saying this right now brought alumni to new york to come see a play they emailed every single person that lived in new york except for me and i'm like one of the only working actors right that lives in New York you're like guys I and so I sent an email like you said of course I fucking sent an email I love it like what was the problem here and so I wound up going and like straight up one of the teachers was like honestly Nico we're just like intimidated by you and I'm like okay that's partially my fault like you're like facts but no that's I kind of respect that so much like I had a lot of

issues in high school where like now they're calling me to want to come back but I'm like sure yeah I'm like after Spotify girl after Spotify they're like Alexandra will you please come do the uh nice big speech to all and I'm like you know what maybe I'm down I would love to go right right you grew up in Pennsylvania. Yes. Where in Pennsylvania? Bucks County. Bucks County. That's the one right outside of Jersey, right? Yes.

I want to move to Bucks County so bad. We're looking at properties in Pennsylvania right now. I want like- It's beautiful. It really is. The five-year plan here is to leave the city and have like hundreds of acres and a working farm with kids running around. My partner and I are trying to get pregnant right now.

Congrats. Thank you. It's a fucking process. I can't even imagine. a working farm with kids running around my partner and i are trying to get pregnant right now thank you it's a fucking process i can't even imagine i just wish we learned more about how to get pregnant and not how to not get pregnant like it's terrible it's fucking terrible yeah like we think that we can sit on a fucking toilet and get pregnant and that's just like not how it works at all so you're we're gonna we're gonna get to your relationship too because you came out as sexually fluid oh yes and in space between your memoir that was released in 2019 you speak about your sexuality how do you identify today i identify as nico tortorella. Yeah. It's complicated. These conversations are... There's so many layers to identity, right?

And if you really start unpacking sexuality, inevitably you start unpacking gender and race and class and socioeconomic status, and it justing gender and race and class and socioeconomic status. And it just is like it just keeps going and going and going and going. I'm at this point where all pronouns are welcome. Like my sexuality is ever changing. There's nothing fixed. I am attracted to all types of people.

Most of the time, I'm not attracted to a single person. I'm in this place right now with sex where I think it's fucking stupid. Oh my God. For a person to come on call and be like, sex is fucking stupid. I mean, I love sex. Don't get me wrong. Like it's such a beautiful thing. It's an extension of love.

But like from a physical standpoint, like this idea of just like a quick fix. It's like getting high. It's like getting off. And like I just am living in a different, in a higher chakra, so to speak, right now. Are you recently having sex and you're like, this is stupid? Well, I'm only having sex to get pregnant right now. And I haven't had sex with a dude in two years. I haven't had sex with anyone except for my partner since February of 2020.

Does your partner? Which is strange. We've never been this monogamous and straight in the 15 years that we've known each other. How do you feel? It's been a fucking process. Okay. I miss other partners that I have for sure. And potentially that's why I'm having this idea about sex right now.

Because like, A, I'm just forced to look at my biology in a different way when we're having the gender conversation. Like penis, vagina, right? That's like where I am right and in love with the idea that I will have a child soon. And all of my energy is directed to that person. And it's okay to put my alternative sex life on hold for a minute. It's not going away entirely right like i'm going to stay with someone in a couple weeks so i haven't seen in a really long time like my partner has been dating a little bit we're it's like just now kind of getting back to where we were but like

you know it's gonna it bends and shifts did you have a conversation to like say let's put on hold or just naturally came to a halt because you're trying to get pregnant and just all the energy is there well yeah we were just living in our house upstate for over a year straight right you're not gonna like in the middle of nowhere you know and it's like it's also the most consecutive time we've ever spent together in 15 years and we got exponentially closer like fall deeper and deeper in love every single day. Like we're killing it right now. That's what I want to know.

Like you're married. I am. Congratulations. Thank you. Tell me how you met Bethany. Like how, cause you've known each other for so long. 15 years.

Yeah. Just over 15 years now. We met playing beer pong in college. Beer pong, eyes lock. You're like, yes. Yeah. But Bethany was like, no. Oh yeah. Bethany was pong, eyes locked. You're like, yes.

But Bethany was like, no. Oh, wait. Oh, yeah. Bethany was like, no. Bethany was like pretty much engaged at the time. Tell me. And like had a cross around their neck and was like, I'm in love and I don't believe in evolution. And I was like, okay.

Let me tell you. Let's get into this. And within a couple of weeks weeks we were sleeping together and um the boyfriend was gone and it's gone it's been you know it's been a labor of love we've grown up together in so many ways i met bethany two days after i moved out of my mom's house wow so you literally grew up together yeah literally yeah and we've been every iteration of relationship and have been best friends it was like the longest we ever went without talking to each other was like maybe a year wow yeah i because i want to get into your relationship but first

you were outed by your brother to your mom it was. And then again, by an undercover New York Post reporter. Yes, come on, page six. Fuck you. You said your initial reaction was anger and betrayal, understandably. With which one? Both? Was it both? With my brother, yeah, for sure.

I was also drinking. I mean, I'm an alcoholic. And my alcoholism is like very closely tied to my identity and my sexuality and my gender, right? It was like I didn't know who I was or what I wanted to be in the world because of how I was raised, because of what was thrown on me when I like started to become famous I mean the amount of conversations that I had 12 13 years ago with managers and agents about like shut the fuck up don't say anything this is who you need to be cut your hair off like if you're gonna do this you're gonna do this and like that's what Hollywood was like right like. It still is. Still is. Especially for people that look like me. Thank God it's gotten to a much better place. But yeah, I mean, there was a lot of betrayal, but I wasn't in a place where I could really even unpack what was happening.

I was just like, fuck the world type of vibe. I was numbing all the time. When did you realize alcohol was a problem in your life? You know, growing up in this industry, I didn't really go to college. I went to college for a year and a half and dropped out and started working and got a taste of fame when I was like 19, 20 years old. And like when you're put in these rooms with a bunch of famous kids, like drugs and alcohol are just there and there's nobody looking out for them and so like i was in that world for a long time you know like partying with the best of the best but when i was just like drinking alone at

home you know and like hitting the bottle of vodka six o'clock in the morning so like i didn't have a hangover right and then would just stay drunk for like six days in a row and then would go to the korean spa fucking sweat for 24 hours and like start the cycle all over again and go to work. And I would be fine. Did it ever interfere with your work? Not on set. There was like rock bottom.

Like the last kind of hurrah was first season of younger premiere party. And I wound up getting hammered that night in like front of a bunch of like execs and other actors and like fell and hit my head on a fucking table like this and was bleeding and like don't remember anything and like woke up the next day covered in piss and blood and like was trying to like how the like I couldn't get out of the room I couldn't get out of the room racked up like a ten thousand dollar fucking bill and I was like okay this like this is it you discuss when like if you're playing an alcoholic you would lean the fuck in when people talk sometimes about method

acting it's like you can go down a dark spiral of like i have yeah no i did this movie called hunter and game um and i was like this drug addict alcoholic dj like super gorilla we would like shoot in new york we played shows in new york where people thought we were actually musicians and uh i was lindsey and i lindsey lohan and i like have a history together and we were kind of like seeing each other again when that movie uh was i was i was in a dark place in my life i was drinking and doing a lot of drugs And it's when I asked Lindsay Lohan to marry me And yeah

I called production one night And was like no I'm not coming to work tomorrow We're getting a fucking jet We're going to Vegas I'm getting married I'll be back in 24 hours Stop Thank god my agent's called like shut the i will fucking get

there right now and murder you yeah so you didn't get married turns out i love her dearly she seems amazing wait that is a pretty epic story it's a pretty good one how did drinking affect your romantic relationship oh i mean it destroyed every relationship that i had for sure and i like i have lived the life of a fucking like princess like i have been in the most ridiculous disney beautiful relationships that like possibly exist and uh i hurt a lot of people. I hurt a lot of people. I did a lot of shitty things. And I just was tired of hurting other people, you know? I've like had those moments when then you look back and you're like, fuck, that was awful that I did that. But like also then shapes you to like have those memories.

For me personally, allow me to like constantly work to be a better partner now in the present having those reflections of like why the fuck did i do that and it says more about you obviously than them they're like just a pawn in like what you're going through but it's when you look back it's hard to look back sometimes but i'm sure you've had those moments and now you're fucking sitting here and you're able to speak about it. But in the moment, it's hard to like see it. And then I wrote a book about it. And then I like added a bunch of my relationships to,

to paper and then had to have conversations with people that like I was writing a book about. How, there was one person that I didn't reach out to. And I have no idea how, or if she read it, how she took it. Do you think she knows? I'm sure she does.

And like, I feel terrible about it. Like I wish we had a relationship i like i'm pretty close with most of my exes which is rare there's like a couple that will never talk to me again there's always a couple it can't be like every single one we are best friends there's always got to be a couple that's life right but like it was you know and also when I had my podcast, Love Bomb, like I brought a lot of exes on. We talked about like how. Yeah.

Have you done that? There's a couple. You know how you just said like there's a couple. I have a couple that I'm like, I don't think. Well, also because their careers like they would never come on the podcast because of their careers. But and then there's like there's only one that it's like bad blood you know who you are and um and then there are some that i thought of like i i even thought i was talking the other day to my friend i was like

what if the guy lost my virginity too like i had him on because there was so much love there and so much time has passed so like it is it is an interesting content. I know. I know. Well, now I'm getting motivated. I'm like, okay. Okay. Um, but you're like super secretive about who you're dating.

Secretive, but I've had where, so you, did you use names? Some. Okay. Most. I changed two people's names.

Okay. For me, I'm making up characters, but the daddy gang finds all of them so like those are my listeners and so it's not there it's not really private like everyone knows who each one is like they know who Slim Shady is the Canadian door number

three like I've got all these names but they all know so then I get our own level of protection didn't even say your name and they're like but you said I'm on this baseball team yeah there's so many they're like, but you said I'm on this baseball team. I'm like, there's so many. There's like 16 of you, right?

Right. With a bun, a man bun, right? I'm like, fuck off. Oh, baseball players, so hot. Oh, so hot and so trouble. And so many, it just. I want to date a professional athlete so bad. You do, but you don't.

Yeah, a date. I don't want to like. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just date. I want to like fuck around, just date i want to like have a moment yeah fair some of them though it's like they're so focused on the sport it's just like can we just not talk about that for a minute like mid-sex like i've had game i'm like what are like it's just a lot but like the homo sociality that exists in in you know sport right the boys in the locker room like i have seen shit and heard

stories like i have a cousin that like played hockey all his life growing up and like when all the guys get together like they all shower together still like in a little fucking hotel room there could be multiple showers and they're all naked in the shower together like the gayest shit i've ever seen in my life i've seen a lot of gay shit, you know, but like, it's there, right?

Yeah. But it's just not, it's not talked about. Yeah, it's like, hush hush. Yeah. It's like, why?

Back to your relationship. Yeah. You and Bethany have been able to work through so much together. Do you believe there is someone out there, like, a twin flame, as you call it, Yeah.

for everyone? And like like how do you find this person i don't think it's just one person i think that like you can have as many as you want really like multiple twin flames yeah i do um how do you find that person i think like the first thing i want to say is like if you're looking for love right you have to look for a friend first you can't look for love first y'all have to like fall in love with each other as best friends and like tell each other everything if you're scared to say something to your partner you're not in the right relationship no matter what it is I think that's hard too though because it's really hard then you're like am I getting in too much to the friend zone?

And I don't know if you've ever had that issue, but I know people write in to me, I want to have a best friend as a partner, but am I too best friends that we're now losing that lust and it's like this never ending. I mean, time plays a huge part of this conversation. Bethany and I didn't just like wake up one morning and decide this is who we are and this is how we're gonna live our lives like it's been

15 years of trying to figure out this dynamic that we have right now like we didn't just decide that we were polyamorous like we cheated on each other for a long fucking time we didn't understand who we were we were never in a real like boyfriend girlfriend relationship we live together in multiple different places like dated sometimes the same people outside of yeah like we you know we did a lot and at a time when we didn't have the language for it like nobody was fucking talking about this nobody was having these conversations 10 years ago even five years ago how did you and bethany first discuss opening your relationship and transitioning to a polyamorous relationship well i mean we always were like we had group sex like pretty early in our relationship and like explored versions like first year for sure wow okay how was that experience um i'm not really

a fan of group sex i think it's like there's just too many parts in different places. Yeah. Okay, and um, i'm definitely like uh, uh Demisexual of sorts throwing out terms here explain Uh, I like really have to have an emotional connection to be able to have sex with someone or else like I just my dick Won't get hard like if i'm not in i'm not in um So like i've been in those situations before and it sucks and it like doesn't feel good and it's just like okay This isn't for me. I respect how open you were about like, I couldn't get fucking hard.

Oh my God. Nobody talks about it. It's literally your- Happens to everybody. Like everyone. Yeah. And I was saying this the other day. I'm like, if I had to have like a actual physical proof that I was actually having an orgasm,

we wouldn't be having sex all the time, baby. Nope. Nope. Y'all have it easy. It wouldn't Nope, nope. Y'all have it easy. It wouldn't be going on. Y'all have it easy. You can fake the shit off. We can't fake it.

Exactly. We can pop a pill. Right. Those work. When did you just get so open, like, I couldn't get fucking hard? Like, you just didn't give a fuck? When I got sober later in life.

I mean, I've been, like, with, you know, like, really famous people, like, trying to have sex, and I'm just, like, so fucking intimidated in the moment, and not there. I'm being like, fuck, like, I can sex and i'm just like so fucking intimidated in the moment and not there i'm being like fuck like i can't do this like it sucks and and like the other person depending on who they are right like inevitably feel some sort of shame too like is it me right like that's a real thing but like that's what i kind of am speaking to when i'm

using the term demisexual is like i need to be there with you where we can fucking talk about it and not feel like we can't say anything to each other right like if we can't have a conversation about having sex let alone like laugh with each other while we're fucking like i'm not i'm not interested yeah i'm not interested like it's a waste of energy really for me and that's like where i am in my life that's such a good point to anyone listening like when you're in that situation you know like i couldn't get hard if you can't be like fuck and like laugh with your partner why were you even having sex with that person in the first place if you can't be comfortable enough to laugh off like

oh okay i can't get hard then why were you about to like intimately so much of it is about keeping score too you know right and adding numbers to your list and just like especially as a like a dude right you know and it's like a whole it's a whole other game with your body count yeah like come on now like stop there's a time and place right for body count conversation but like what miley was speaking to in your episode with her about uh being more into her sexuality than sex right like fully understand that i'm on the same exact page can you explain that from your perspective a little bit more yeah i mean i um i'm definitely like happiest getting off by myself for sure like uh if i like am having a fleeting thought about like oh should i call

this person should i go do this like if i jerk off like the thought doesn't even exist right like and it's it's satisfying i don't have to deal with the other part like like it's where i am right but like understanding my body and my energy and like how i can direct it and who i'm giving it to and like how i'm giving it to that person like and how my sexuality is represented both in private space and publicly I'm I spend a lot more time with that than I do fucking we are so misinformed and the conversations that we have about sex and sexuality and gender like we are at such basic elementary levels it's so it's still just so animalistic it's shocking i remember starting my show and it was like a pretty basic concept of just being like all my girls out there that are like oh my god like he just doesn't get me off and like i haven't had an orgasm yet and i'm like

wait in your life and i'm like yeah and i like, take yourself to the bedroom, girlfriend. Get in there and enjoy yourself. Because if you don't know how to have an orgasm, how are they going to give you an orgasm? And I think there was this concept of like, you need someone else to do it for you. And again, that goes back to the construct of like a man and a woman and a man's penis needs to get. And it's just, it's like, that's how we were almost raised to see like, this is sex. And then you make a baby and it's like, wait, like you can get off on your own. You don't need someone else.

You can do it on your own together too. You don't need to get off to have sex either. Like you don't need to have penetration to have sex. Right. Like, especially when you're talking about queer relationships. Right. Like, and, and, you know, two people that have vaginas. Right.

Like it's a different thing. I have a question for you. Have you ever dated a guy or been with a guy that's been with men no but I have had a partner that was very open to the point where I was like I I think he's probably interested in the amount of times there was a reference like let's have a threesome with a guy, which made me want to also do it. Not just for me, but for him.

Like I was like, it seemed like he was very interested in that. Was it more than he just wanted to see you get fucked by another dude or that like, no, because I've had that like dynamic as well. It, I could tell the pull was more towards the man.

And I feel like I tried to make as much of an open space about like, well then let's just like, I would just try to make it as a dynamic conversation as possible anytime it was brought up, not almost to make it about me, but I've never, no, I've never dated someone

that was openly like, hey, I've had sex with another man. Okay, so if you, hypothetical situation, if you like meet someone, you're not in a relationship, he's like, hey, listen, like I'm bi. Right. What's your response your response great tell me more you're in i i think i would want to know

more i definitely i've never been in a polyamorous relationship nico like i've never done the whole open thing and so i think i would need to know more about the way they would go about a relationship like but if you're with me are we in a monogamous relationship or are you more interested in xyz like I would have to understand but I don't think at face value if someone's like I'm bi I'm like great okay take the relationship out of it just from like a sex standpoint like hey I'm gonna go fuck this dude but like I know that like he was potentially with a dude last week what's the thought there i think if you asked me this question five years ago i would have said i don't think so right does that mean he's gay and i can openly say that because i know other people listening to be like

me too yeah the majority of people girls would be like is he gay right i think we'll say that yes because of how hyper overly sexualized women are and like we put bisexual and pansexual and the miley cyrus's of the world on this fucking pedestal right and then it's like why we can't even begin to have the conversation about the dude or the the person that has a penis right it's like it's the the script is totally flipped and it's really the only situation where it is. I agree. It's like, wait, why can I have a sexual experience with a woman? Hot.

Hot. Oh my God. Beautiful. An upcoming partner would be like, oh my God. Yeah. Would you be down to do that again with me involved? Because they're not threatened. Exactly. Right.

Whereas you flip it and yes, like I, in the past past I wasn't educated enough I also am fortunate that I feel like this show has opened my fucking eyes and I'm like using it for myself and others to hopefully not that it's anyone's duty to like educate but it's it's helping me get to a place where I'm like yeah I would be okay how many years you've been doing this now this is I'm on my third year you're on your third year it's been a journey so I started my podcast pretty much the same age that you did oh wow and I was having very similar conversations it was all sex sexuality gender identity open fucking discussion and it was at a point where like I I was taking my education public, like I specifically around queer theory and queer identity.

Like I didn't know shit. And I realized that out of like, like abruptly when like the news came out, Nico's fluid. Fuck. I need to have these conversations. I need to own this fucking narrative before someone else throws it on me. And thank God for the podcast because I learned more about the human condition and just the way the world operates more having these conversations than i did anywhere else so i i know what you're going and don't you feel like i'm so fortunate that i'm sitting with you because

i'll admit like i get nervous for every interview i'm like i want to be respectful i want to learn i want to share i want to be vulnerable i want you to feel comfortable i want to feel comfortable but this is a very rare thing and i i see what i have in you too that like you're just down to go right like like and how and talk about shit that other people don't want to talk about right or haven't talked about in the past and it's a very very special thing and like kudos to you for going in like congrats on your success and everything that you've accomplished it's so beautiful um like keep going though like keep fucking pushing yourself and like going back to that idea of like once that veil is lifted right you can't ever put it back down right so the more that you take in the more you're gonna to have. I agree with you because I think you get it. Like having a platform,

I'm more aware what I'm saying. I don't want to offend, but I also want to push to learn and know. So there's a balance of being respectful and also like pushing the boundary of like, hold on, I know this may not be like my area, but I'm like, no, fuck it. Like sit down and talk with me.

And that's why I think like yes you asking the question like i did get a little uncomfortable because i'm like am i allowed to say that yes five years ago i would have said i don't know is he gay is that like is there going to be an issue and now i can happily say no because i've done my research and now i want to know more yeah and i'm way more open than i was five years ago right which I think is beautiful. And like, thank you to call her daddy. Right. For that.

Back to your relationship, because I think polyamory, it was interesting. You discussed like at first we were cheating. So I guess like what you were, you were like, we were cheating. We were trying to figure out ourselves. But like neither of us ever got mad about it. Really? Oh yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Like Bethany would go out of town and I would have someone stay with me for a few days and like they would come back and like pretend to be mad. Like Negro. Yeah, but like not actually mad, right? And then like they would go sleep with someone just like out of spite to like, you know, match up.

But like we both kind of always laughed about it. Like I am the least jealous person I've ever met in my life. Can you explain that? I don't know how to. Like sometimes I wish I was more jealous in certain aspects of my life. But like in terms of like sex and love, like we have so much to share. Right. And like if I'm with my partner, if I'm with Bethany,

and something else will make them happy, if, if like they need a physical connection or even emotional connection, like go, like do it, explore, have it. Like it will only bring us closer. That's, I'm not. Have you always been that way? Yes. Have you ever gotten jealous? Yeah yeah okay dating men was a little different um why do you think I mean I just think like the the the masculine feminine dynamic in certain relationships that I've been in like shift and like they even shift with bethany like from week to week like you know we ebb and

flow um but uh i had a partner uh this hotel is bringing back lots of memories too you almost let me forget did you fuck on this chair like what, what are we doing? What's happening? Oh, I fucked all over this hotel. I basically lived in the presidential suite. Windows open, fucked. Like, going. When? How long ago? Five years ago.

Four or five years ago. Was it a great experience? Yeah, it was fun. Are those the memories? Yeah, fucking beautiful. And he's, like, still such an important person in my life. And it was, like, the first time I've been in, like uh a power dynamic where i was lesser and i was known it taught me so much about myself and uh what i truly value in the world why was the power dynamic so obvious and off i mean have you ever dated someone that's just like has so much money that it's just stupid when I didn't have nothing.

Yeah. I mean, not nothing, but yes. Like, but like, I always say it's like, it's kind of like playing a video game.

Like when you get the cheat code, the game's like kind of just not fun anymore. Like, and it was the first time that like, I felt like I, I wasn't worth as much as I am. Like emotionally, spiritually. That's a lot.

That's a lot. Yeah. And he also like lived in another country. We like didn't really see each other. It was like a whole thing. Those relationships necessary in a good way and a bad way? Like you really, now the fact that you were like, and then I left there and I like, I was like, oh, now I have an idea and a gauge of like what works for me and what doesn't.

We tried it a few times. It was like a year here. Yeah. You always think maybe it'll be. Maybe next time. Well, we first started dating when I was drinking or still. And that kind of like all fucking exploded oh wow and then i got sober and i was how different was that it was a totally

different dynamic because like still but like i really fucked shit up the first time like i really broke his heart really really terribly it was just like i sent a fucking email like it was bad and then i wound up in the hospital it was it was they fucking emails i'm so grateful for the experience like i would never change anything that happened um but you know the second time around like i i always had to make it up right like i was oh you're just like chasing what you and it's like you can never i can never apologize enough right yeah perfect dynamic wrong time i mean he's like the other great love of my life yeah there will always be a thought in my head like what if and i fucking brought the dominic today and you fucking brought me back here like this is really new this is where it all started was here did it look a little bit like this you're like no it was bigger bitch three floors like giant full glass

i have been in that room yes you have yes you have and it's wild yeah yeah good for you thanks girl good for you if someone has never been in a polyamorous relationship and they're like i maybe i would want to try this but like they're terrified that it may ruin their relationship what would you say to that like from your experience i mean any relationship monogamous poly questioning any single relationship needs to be based in honesty and communication and friends family members like not even just romantic relationships. Right. And if you're too scared to tell the person how you are potentially feeling or what your interests are or what your desires are, desire plays a huge part in this. If you can't get to that place, you're probably not going to have a polyamorous relationship. And your relationship is going to be struggled.

It just is. And so I would say like, if you feel like you can tell your partner anything, you can have that conversation. If you can't spend more time together and see if you can get to that spot. And also if you can't, again, that's right.

Regardless of whether it's polyamorous or monogamous, like if you can't share something with your partner, anything that's, that's a gauge of just where you're at in the relationship in general, not even to just talk about what you want to do sexually, emotionally. Like it's just like in general, like that's also where you are with yourself, right?

Like if you're holding on to secrets and it's like, let's unpack that first. Take partner out for a minute. What about you? I mean, they're just a mirror of who you are anyway. The relationship is, it's like we are one, right? Right. And so like if you're not one, why? And if it's worth it, how do we get there are there guidelines that

you've set within your relationship so every poly relationship is totally different right and like poly non-monogamous every relationship in general totally different right like we have our own set of rules and guidelines that like aren't fixed they change they have changed over the years where we are right now just in terms of like like sexuality the like that aspect of our relationship bethany only dates women for the most part biological like cis women um so the thought of bethany going and being with another dude is like never really even on the table. I am attracted. I have a much more pan approach. Like I, I look past gender genitalia.

Like I can be with anyone. I'm attracted to spirit. Like I can, I fall in love real fast, but like the rule from the get from when we really decided to get married was I can't be in a relationship with anyone else that could potentially get pregnant. And so that takes cis girls and trans men off the table. And like, you know, the follow up question to that is like, what if a girl can't get pregnant? What if someone that has a vagina actually can't get pregnant?

But like we're not there yet like we're still at like anyone that has a vagina has off limits for me okay which is interesting i mean there are like there have been moments in our relationship where i'm like fuck like this person like we have such an amazing connection bethany is is number one no matter what like okay but like let's talk about it right and that that is probably the most difficult conversation that we have right um and it's something that we're still unpacking right and like in theory like you know we preach this like we're so open we're like queer we've like understood each other right we're non-binary like like that is a complicated conversation to have around genitalia when you preach such an open message.

And like, I'll be the first to say we are all walking fucking contradictions. None of us are perfect. None of us abide by the rules that we fucking set. Like we're all a mess. All of us. A disaster. Every single person. In the best way.

Some better than others. Right. Some better than others. So like Right? Some better than others. Yeah. So like we're still unpacking that shit. Right? And like will it be that way forever? Probably not.

But like we have like I don't even know what forever is. When you because I'm assuming was that that was not always the case until you decided you wanted to have children. Well for the so for the most part I was only dating men for a long time and trans women. Okay And there was a point where like I had a really serious Girl girlfriend and like we were like on the fast track We were friends for a long time and this is like, I don't know five five years ago six years ago and

It was the first time Bethany was was like oh i'm gonna lose you like this is it i'm gonna lose you to her and this gets complicated so basically like bethany was dating a girl at the time they were also talking about marriage and having kids if they were going to get pregnant i was going to be the one that was going to provide the material and that was just always the case and the girl that i was going to be the one that was going to provide the material and that was just always the case and the girl that i was dating we were talking about having kids um and she was basically like you can't do that if we're doing this and i was like fuck i was like get no no shade like i fully understand right? Like it makes perfect sense. But it was like the first time that Bethany and I were made to have that conversation for real.

Like, okay, this is on the table. What does this mean for us? Right. And that is what like we started sleeping together for the first time in years after those conversations happened. You weren't even sleeping together. Oh, no. It's a full emotional relationship at that point. Yeah, we spent years as best friends.

Years. Bethany had a really intense relationship with, they're non-binary now, but they weren't when they were dating. And spent a lot of time with them, like years. And I had a handful of relationships with men at the time, a couple of trans girls. But maybe three and a half, four years that we weren't sleeping together.

And did you like talk often? Every day. We were still each other's emergency contacts. Have you ever had a situation where you're so into someone and then they're like, wait, but I don't fuck with you being with also someone else. And then obviously you're like, well, that's not how I roll. But then have you ever been like, then just gone exclusive with someone for a minute and

have your thing? I have for sure. Even when I've been like in a really serious, more romantic relationship with Bethany, we've like given each other the space like, okay, we're not bethany aren't gonna sleep together right now like i'm gonna go explore this for a little bit um the dynamic is always shifting yeah always i mean like i'll say it again we are the most like fucking straight passing monogamous we've ever been in our entire lives and it's a weird weird thing um like you know i don't identify as queer and non-binary, right? Like I am those things.

And like, I think a lot more people are than choose to admit. But, you know, those parts of me, like we get this question all the time. Like, are you still poly? Like, are you still in an open relationship? Like, yes, of course. Like our open relationship is like a state of being. It's not like a state of action. And our

polyamory is defined a lot by like the spiritual and emotional relationships that we have with other people. It's not about sex. People have this preconceived notion that I'm out of here fucking all the time. You know? But we can't talk about sex. We can't separate sex from love. Like, we're just we're

not there once the internet is fucking hooked up into our brains the conversations that we're having now will be so fucking we will look back at these conversations and laugh like just speaking of identity like in general right now like what's happening with with gender and and transness like we've come such a long way and there are so many more identities than we all ever thought possible. Right. But once that fucking connection happens,

once we can actually become transhuman, robotic, fucking game change. Right. This is going to seem silly, but like I'm also like fucking move me to Buck County. Bucks. Put Bucks County,

put me on that farm and like, yeah, take everything away. What does it mean to be a future man for you? Yeah. I think it's like more about the, the future person, right? Like the face of man has changed, right? Like we're not in the same place that we were a few years ago. And men are having a really fucking hard time with that. Like, I'm sure you've sat in rooms with a bunch of white dudes being like, well, we're the fucking ones now. Like, what about us? You know, like very real. Yeah. Very, very, very real. Um, so it's, it's happening whether or not they want it to, you know? But the future person, right, knows more. I think the future man is willing to do the work

and willing to like understand how they got to where they are in the first place, what it means, right? What their relationship with their father was like, and truly wants to treat people well. I mean, that's really what it comes down to. Like, the future man is kind. The future man loves you as much as he loves himself.

If not more. As a non-binary person, right, i have a hard time having the men and women conversation i'm not saying this in in a negative way but like you know the white woman feminism movement is very specific and like that's where this conversation lives and as somebody who understands the complexities of identity um and is still unpacking and trying to do the work and like sees beyond this binary that was that was put on us this binary of men and women did not exist internationally pre-religious indoctrination and colonialism it just didn't like the church did this to us the church is the reason why we're having this conversation and once you start to like realize how we got here and how

young the idea of man and woman actually is like uh it's fucking stupid it's all made up and like this emphasis that we have on like men and women and like women's power. And this is the time I get it. I'm not throwing, I'm not saying that like, it's not important, but it's at a very basic level of understanding how the world operates and how we got here. I agree.

Like I'm just, I'm like, I'm living higher than that. One of the many. One of the many. We can't even have a fucking conversation about race. We can't talk about black and white. We're still there. So if you think

we can talk about gender or fucking internal identity, fuck you. Like we're just not. That's how it is. Some people like don't want to look at it, right? And like think it's silly and stupid and like it has nothing to do with their lives. Like think about the amount of people that actually know a trans person. Like

firsthand. The number is very, very small, very small. In high school, my principal came out as trans. Eighth grade, I spent a lot of time in the principal's office. Eighth grade, she came back as Dr. Reed. Dr. Reed was a man, sixth and seventh grade came back as a female. I was introduced to identity at a very young age and but like it's still so fucking alien for so many people and the representations that we have albeit like have gotten

a lot better but it's still complicated you know and I think like body modification is an entirely different conversation than even transness and you know I was thinking about this when I was listening to the Miley episode. And even she was saying, like, comparing balls to tits, right? Like, tits are prettier than balls. Okay.

But have you ever been with a person that has tits and balls? Let me tell you, it's fucking beautiful. It's dangerous to have that conversation as men versus women. Because some of the greatest women that I know have fucking dicks and balls. Some of the greatest women I know. And like, we have to change the language and it's not going to happen overnight. It's hard. Like it's, it's, it's, it's, it's really fucking hard as someone who understands transness and identity and like being other than what was assigned like i never had the thought that i was born in the wrong body like i love my body there are some things that i should change and probably will but i wasn't born in the wrong body i was born we

all were born in the wrong world we're fucked yeah it's like we just gotta keep fucking talking and creating art and having conversations. You're telling stories. You're documenting life right now. You are keeping time. That is the most important thing that we do as human beings. This is art. What can you say now about how young Nico navigated the Hollywood system,

knowing that it's designed for straight white men. Yeah, I did an event not that long ago and I had like a handful of the most like influential, powerful, transgender, nonconforming voices. Like we were all on a panel having a conversation. We sat and had dinner afterwards and someone was there who's a trans person who's also an actor, looks at me and was like, how do you do it? How do you go play a cis dude

now that you know who you are? And my answer was like, he is me. Like, that's how I was raised. That's everything that I knew for 25 years of my life. That's who I was raised. That's everything that I knew for 25 years of my life. That's who I was. And this idea of being non-binary and I am not man, I am not woman, I am whatever, the space between, right?

Like, I am man, I am woman, I am all of it is you like i wouldn't change a fucking thing because i was able to really get here i i'm i'm i'm more cautious about the future than i am like looking back and like wanting things to go differently right like 2020 really you know it just puts so much into perspective yeah priorities and like you know, it just puts so much into perspective. Yeah. Priorities. And like, you know,

like I unfollowed everyone on Instagram except for my family. And like, I, I talked to my family more than I ever did. And it's just, it's like, what's important to me today is so much different than what it was a two years ago. And like,

do you ever go back and listen to podcasts? I can't. I can't. You can't do it i would rather fling myself somewhere uncomfortable no yeah go back and listen to a podcast you did three years ago the tone of my fucking voice was different it was affected i was trying to play this crazy sex like not a bimbo but like i was definitely playing a character that i'm like actually kind of like what you're saying. Like, yes,

there's a part of me that was like college. Alex was fucking wild. And I killed it. I'm sure. But that's not fully me. So like looking back, I'm like, what was I doing?

But no, then I have to be like, I fucking love that version of myself. And I love this version of myself. But in three years, you're going to listen to this episode. I'm like, what the fuck?

Why? Why didn't I ask them? And it never stops. It never stops to this episode. And be like, what the fuck? Why didn't I ask them? And it never stops. It never stops. And that's why like, I'm so grateful for all the versions that I've lived. And I don't know what the future is going to look like, especially having kids.

Like, holy fuck. I'm so excited to be a parent. I'm excited for you. Like it is what's driving my life right now. Like everything else is Backseat Do you always know you wanted kids? Always yeah Always

You're gonna be Yeah An amazing parent I want all of them Ten fucking kids right now Ten In Bucks County In fucking Bucks

I have a brother-in-law That has eight And they're the best kids In the entire world That's amazing And they're all homeschooled Like Do you think you'll

homeschool i don't know what the world's gonna look like i don't know like who the fuck knows this may not even be here by the time i think we're all different from covid we share an experience yeah like everyone in the world like we all lived it leveled the playing field in so many ways you can kind of get away with things that you couldn't before and i think we're definitely going to see a shift in social justice and identity politics and like cancel culture and sensitivity like i think things are going to start breaking through and people are going to really start saying what they want i agree and like not fucking worrying about getting canceled fucking cancel me like i don't care at this point like please take me out take me out of my misery yeah like yes that's i sat down with

tiffany haddish and she was like cancel me like what do you mean okay i'll just start a show like you there's one of those dangerous things it's so dangerous and toxic but i i agree with you if there's something positive we can look at from this pandemic, it is that we all shared an experience. And maybe, maybe. And just how fragile life is, you know? Yeah. It's like, how do we continue to create life? That's what I'm holding on to.

That's what gets me through every day. We're here to create life and love. Nico. This has been lovely. It was honestly a pleasure to talk to you. Thank you so much. For real. Thank you. Congrats on everything that you got going okay hi daddy gang I hope you enjoyed this interview as much as I did I'm excited I also have already spoken to Nico and I'm like we need

a part two like I feel like yes we yes we scratched the the surface and broached topics that we've never talked about on Call Her Daddy. But even after leaving that interview, I was like, fuck, I should have asked more. I wish I had asked more. I want to know more. And so that will definitely not be the last of Nico Tortorella. But this episode, I will say in reflection after editing it, this interview left me feeling more aware of my privilege. And with this platform, I know I can do better. I know who I've had on. I'm proud of who I've had on. I'm proud of the topics I've discussed. I'm proud of the history of Call Her Daddy. But moving forward, it's just

opening my eyes to so much more that can be done. I hope as it did for me, like this interview also sparked you to ask yourself some new questions. Would you be comfortable dating someone who identifies as bisexual or non-binary? Do you have any trans friends? And I asked myself these questions and maybe I didn't like the answers. So I can choose to ignore it and just keep living my life or change. I'll see you fuckers next Wednesday.