Call Her Daddy - Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Friendship, Fuckboys, & Faking It

Episode Date: April 30, 2025

Join Alex in the studio for a conversation with Phoebe Gates and Sophia Kianni, the hosts of Unwell’s newest podcast, The Burnouts! The girls discuss going from enemies to best friends, their most unhinged college life hacks, and their worst rebounds. They also talk about launching a company together and how they navigate being young women in business. Enjoy!

Daddy gang, welcome back to another episode of call her daddy. I am so excited for you to watch this episode We have phoebe gates and sophia kiani on this week's episode They just launched their podcast called the burnouts with unwell and they are our most recent sign to unwell If you guys are going to become fans of them today I am just excited for you to listen to their chaotic stories, their best friends, their business partners, and they're officially unwell. The first time I ever met them was on a random zoom, we had a mutual friend put us together, they were like, you guys are in complete different industries,

but maybe you guys will hit it off. And one thing led to another. And we recognized wait, you guys are launching a sustainable fashion company, your young women in your 20s living in New York. You're figuring life out. Yeah, I want to listen to you guys and hear what you have to say. And so we launched their podcast. They also just launched their company called Fia

and they really have become quickly two of my favorite people. They're so funny together. Their banter as business partners and best friends is everything. So without further ado, I'm so excited for you to get to know them. Let's get into it. What is up, Daddy Gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy. Phoebe Gates and Sophia Chiani, welcome to Call Her Daddy.

Thank you for having us. Phoebe and Sophia have been up since 2 a.m., 3 a.m.? 5 a.m. Okay, your company just launched today, Phoebe, how are you guys feeling? I feel like we just birthed the child that we've been creating for the last year. It feels nuts.

I'm really excited though. I'm kind of freaking out a little bit. Launch day for anyone that has a business, anyone first day of school, a birthday party. I'm kind of freaking out a little bit. Launch day for anyone that has a business, anyone first day of school, like a birthday party. I don't even know what the feeling is, but there's just this excitement and I wanna get into everything.

But first, I do though want people to know you better today. Because this is kind of like now your reintroduction to the world through the lens of Call Her Daddy and the daddy gang. So we're gonna do it a little call her daddy style. I wanna go back to the beginning for you guys in terms of you two met at Stanford.

You're in college, you meet. Can you tell me your first impressions of each other and how you actually met? Okay, so we met at a football game, right? And Sophia, I was pretty intimidated by because she worked for the UN. Her Instagram basically looked like this girl was a professional award receiver, okay?

It's like Times, New York Times, UN, saving the world with her nonprofit. And so I obviously was super jealous of her, I'm not gonna lie. And I thought she was a little bit of a freak because she'd put something on her story that was like sober squad, love college, like love being sober.

And I was like, well, she sounds like a whole lot of fun. And so when I first met her, I was like, and she's hot too, I hate her so much. That was my first impression of Sophia was honestly, I feel like a lot of like jealousy. I was like, this girl is pretty cool, but it really took, I wanna say a year for us to bond. And it was frankly an accident

because there was another girl we were supposed to room with and she ended up living with her boyfriend. So we ended up getting screwed and we have to live with each other. And I'm like, oh great, sober squad and me, can't wait for an awesome year of talking about sustainability. I'm like throwing away my plastic water bottles, like hiding the sheen shirt I have.

And- I didn't even know this. Look at some new hand machine shirts. I did, I threw them all away. I got recyclable balls for you. Wow, thank you. Thank you, Phoebe. Well, I was like, okay, I am in my bag

and I am here on a mission. I'm gonna graduate from Stanford. I'm going to law school. Like I'm bossed up. This irrelevant person does not matter. No, I'm joking, I'm joking, I'm joking. Okay, then we got dinner one night because we find out we're gonna be rooming together

and we're talking and she'd been dating her boyfriend for about like five years. You dated for like half a decade. Four years, whoa, it was four years. Five years sounds crazy. Almost half a decade. And we're at dinner and I was like, it's very clear to me your parents are getting divorced.

And she was like, how do you know that? And I was like, just your emotional state, everything you're talking about. Because I had gone through, my parents had had a very, very public divorce and I really couldn't tell many people about it, especially because like it was going on for, you know, so long in our household before it was announced. And so I really felt like this built up pressure and I could just see that in her.

And that was the moment then we end up, you know, sitting and talking for four hours together. And I'm like, okay, honey, you need to dump your boyfriend though, because we had, I had just gone through a breakup and she was like, me and my boyfriend were getting married. Like I'm gonna be a senator. It's gonna be incredible. A senator? Yes, oh my God. So really it was so crazy because we become roommates.

We don't really know each other at all. We're like randomly paired basically. We had that one dinner, it was a heart to heart and you were a little mad at me because I said you needed to break up with your boyfriend. I did and I was delusional and I was like, this bitch is trying to sabotage me. She doesn't realize he's my husband, whatever.

She was in her bag, of course. Why did you think she needed to break up with him? He was like, I just think if you were a senator, it'd be hard for the kids. And I'm like, what kids? And also, how is that how you're going to react to this? That is so negative. But I'm still delusionally believing

he's my childhood sweetheart, whatever, we're going to get married. And then me and Phoebe are talking. She's like, you're going to break up with him. I'm like, she's believing he's my childhood sweetheart, whatever, we're going to get married. And then me and Phoebe are talking, she's like, you're going to break up with him. I'm like, she's literally trying to sabotage me. Fast forward, we're roommates. This was actually before we're roommates. This is like lore. We're roommates.

I've very recently broken up with him. I'm basically like sobbing, trying to keep it together. I'm not in my bag at all. I'm a mess. The bag is falling off. And Phoebe's like, are you OK? What's wrong? And I'm like, we did break up. And she's like, I knew it. But then she actually ends up being the most incredible

person on the planet. The most supportive friend gives me such good advice. And I was like, whoa, I love this girl. And I'm like fake tanning at 2 AM. I'm butt naked. She's talking to me. We're talking for hours. And I'm like, this is my soul sister.

We really just got along instantly after I stopped being like a robot and I broke down my walls and I just opened up and I actually talked about what was going on. And we talked about like, yeah, the divorces, the ex-boyfriends, like we realized how much we had in common. It was amazing.

The fact that you guys kind of went from like enemies to lovers is kind of iconic. It was a true arc. It was a true arc. It was a true arc. I love though how Phoebe you said, which I think is like a very relatable thing for women, is like okay I was jealous and I thought she had all this. How did you go from feeling like competitive jealous to all of a sudden being like wait I actually can like mutually have a good relationship with this person and not feel like I have to compete. Cause I feel like especially being at such

like a high level school and you guys both wanting to have such successful careers, like where do you think the competitiveness kind of, kind of died out a little bit? I think honestly, it's not about it. I mean, for me, there was, I had to find myself first. Cause right, I was so insecure. I was going into Stanford.

I wanted to be pre-med cause I knew my sister was pre-med and I wanted to do that better and And figuring out, I'm still figuring myself out, but having confidence in myself and my own decisions was a big thing. And now in the company, each having our own lanes. And then I realized I was like, well, we're both very competitive people. What if instead of this being against each other, it could be together? And I think that's the thing is it's not like that has gone away, but it's, we just drive each other so hard. We're both like foot to the gas pedal. And also seeing that like, frankly, you know, I was asleep in my bed and I hear one night

Sophia in front of the mirror completely by herself go, this big tan is developing wonderfully. Wakes me up so loud, wakes me up. She's saying it over and over to herself, crazy person. And I opened my door and I see her butt naked in front of the mirror like this, just by herself. No boys are over there. And that was the, like, I think finding out and really humanizing her for me was the biggest thing was gaining confidence and then humanizing her and then being like, wait, what if we took this like competitive energy and then brought it together to actually like build something. And now we've birthed Fia. I am obsessed with you being like the moment I knew

is when she was naked in front of the mirror, just really like relishing in her fake tan. Can you tell me the story though, Sophia, of you made up in college that you had an assistant? So in college, I discovered that I'm doing public speaking and you're supposed to get paid when you public speak and I need to pay my Stanford tuition. So I'm like, hey, like, can you give me $100 to do this speech? Everyone laughs at my face. They're like,

absolutely not. So I'm like, okay, well, how can I get people to pay me? And one of my friends goes, Well, you can have a fake assistant, make it a man and make him negotiate your deals for you. And I'm like, that's so psychotic. You're a genius. I'm going to do that. That is so smart.

So I create like, Kobe Sophia team at gmail.com or something. I have a friend named Kobe. I'm so paranoid. I'm like, I'm going to put you on the phone. If anyone ever asks, you're my assistant. Okay. He's like, you're psychotic, but I'm like, it's going to work. So Kobe, every time someone emails me, I'm like, looping in my assistant, Kobe,

to take it from here. Kobe's a hard ass. He's like, Sofia has spoken at all these places. Her rates are this and this. He starts out with like a thousand dollars. He's like, she's gonna speak for a thousand dollars. I'm like, shitting my pants. I'm like, everyone's gonna think I'm a fraud.

This is so much money. They're like, done, absolutely. Whatever Miss Keani desires. I'm like, I am Ms. Keani now. I am Ms. Keani now. This is crazy. I'm picturing you writing as Kobe, being like a thousand dollars, I'm pressing send, I could see you like panicking, walking around your room.

I was so paranoid. I would change the way that Kobe did his grammar to not sound like me. I would capitalize weirdly. Then when I had to loop myself back in, I would talk and sign off my emails in a different way. I had a whole elaborate scheme going on. And then I was telling Phoebe,

I eventually got in way over my head. I promoted- Chief of staff. To my chief of staff. Cause I was like, 1,000, let's try 5,000. Like let's keep upping the stakes. Holy shit. We actually had a guest on the burnouts recently

and she's like, I don't know if you remember, but I actually talked to Kobe when you were in college and I'm literally like about to die of embarrassment. I'm genuinely so embarrassed. And she's like, you looped in Kobe and then you were like, Sophia would love to do this, but you need to cover her travel and accommodations. And she also needs a speaking stipend. And I'm like so embarrassed.

I am actually about to die. And she was like, honestly, at the time I'm like so embarrassed, I'm actually about to die. And she was like, honestly, at the time I was like, I don't think a college student would have an assistant, but I love this for her. And honestly, this does make sense. Like I will, and she paid me. She literally paid me, paid for my flights, whatever, because of Kobe.

No, this is genius. I think it's so genius. Also the biggest factor that I took from this, which I wouldn't have thought of is like that you made it a man. I know. Because when a man is like, no, this is like, it's just the world we live in.

And it was so smart of you to be like, I'm gonna advocate for myself through a fake man. And look how much I can get out of this fucking man. That's Kobe. That is genius. It's so sad. That's a good hack. It's a really good hack. If anyone is listening, boom, have a male fake assistant.

Oh my God, this is genius. Do you guys have any other like hacks that you can share with the daddy gang in business that are like little tricks? Unhinged. Okay. I told Phoebe I was gonna take this to the grave with me because I genuinely also-

But we agreed, she'll share it. Like I wanted to gate keep it because it's such a good hack. So when I got into Stanford, I was like, oh my God, I need to apply for scholarships. I need to have scholarships to pay for college. I'm applying for these scholarships and they all have this section where it's like,

include links about yourself if there are articles about you. And I'm like, the fuck, how the hell do you have an article written about you? That's so crazy. So I'm like, okay, how do I get a journalist to write an article about me? And I use this thing called Rocket Reach. You can find anyone's email. Anyway, so I'm emailing all these journalists. Obviously, they're like, who is this psychotic 19 year old trying to pitch herself that she's so embarrassing? I was so embarrassing. So I'm like, okay, this

isn't working. I need another way. I go on Twitter and go look at these journalists. And by the grace of God, I see this one journalist and she posts this thing that's like hashtag journal request, looking for a source to speak about climate change, something like that. And I'm like, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me. I slide into her DMs, I email her, whatever. First time I am ever in a story. And I'm like, there must be more of this.

I go to this hashtag, hashtag journal request. It's like hundreds of journalists every single day. They're posting, looking for people to interview for things. And I'm like, I am going to email every single person who is doing this and I am going to have links. Correction, Kobe emailed every single person. Sorry, yeah, Kobe's emailing them.

I'm gonna email all of these people and I'm gonna have articles to link in my scholarship application. And let me tell you, my friends all were like, are you famous or something? Do you have a PR person? Like, how are you every single week? If Phoebe's like professional award receiver, yeah, because I engineered it. Like it was literally like every week I am DMing these people, I'm emailing these people,

whatever, because I'm like, I need links to put in these scholarship applications. And fast forward, I think the most important thing to say is I ended up going on this interview live on TV because of a journal request and they thought I was a good fit. So I go on, I talk about my climate change background. I talk about my climate change nonprofit, my UN work, whatever. And I swear to God, it was like a miracle. These people emailed me and said, we run this scholarship organization. We have closed applications for the season,

but we heard your story. We thought it was so amazing. We would love to extend you an invite to apply for a scholarship. And I'm like, this cannot be real. And I apply and I got the scholarship. And it was all because of this fucking journal request hack. Sophia, I feel like that is so

what people need to hear also today of like, sometimes you just have to put yourself out there, even as like embarrassing as it can feel, even if you feel like you're faking it and you're just like getting yourself in the door because you are qualified and you do deserve, if people are gonna pay you that amount of money, even though you felt awkward to ask for it, or when you you that amount of money, even though you felt awkward

to ask for it, or when you went to get the scholarship, even though you had to bust through certain doors and do random things to get there, I feel like that is a hack of, that's a great hack for people to be like, go for it in any way you can, and there is no fucking shame. There's no shame. You have to create your own luck, that's the reality.

Can we talk about you guys then finally deciding to work together? Because you're obviously talking about like, you guys had your things, you were talking pre-med, you're talking about all of this, like then you guys eventually come to be like, I think we want to work together. Can you talk about how you decided?

Like, when did you guys come together and be like, let's make this? So I'm on my journal request wave because I'm doing my stuff in women's reproductive health. So I was focusing on like access to birth control, access to abortion, etc. After Roe v. Wade was overturned. And so I'm all in this mindset of like what if we work together on something, you know, joint activism-y because that's what we are both interested in at the time.

And so our first idea together wasn't even going to be a company. We wanted to create like a smart Bluetooth tampon, low key like an aura ring for your pussy. We realized very quickly there was no monetization model behind it. We didn't know how the hell we would do it. We honestly didn't know what it would really do. But that kind of kickstarted this crazy, I wanna say almost manic sense of,

let's just come up with an idea, lock ourselves in our dorm room for a week, and see what we can create. We came up with, I'm gonna be honest with you, the dumbest ideas for the first like month. There were rumors spread all around campus that we had fallen off the earth, that we had fallen in love with each other. And so, but as we keep building, the one thing we came back to was like our own experience

of, okay, we're roommates, we're always arguing over clothes. And frankly, like it's kind of bullshit that the shopping environment hasn't developed in the last 10 years. Like how come I'm on a site and I don't know if I should buy an item or not? Why isn't AI able to tell me, hey, this is a good deal or this is not a good deal?

Where's my little shopping assistant? And so we were like, what if we could create a shopping assistant or a shopping hack, be it your Kobe for shopping. So we were like, what if we did something like with our names together, Fia? And that's how the idea was originally born. But it took a lot of bad ideas, I'm not gonna lie.

Was there any hesitation because you guys are now best friends to be like, we're actually gonna get in business together or no, was that no hesitation? We did a day where we wrote down our strengths and weaknesses and that was brutal. You two write about each other? Oh, we did our own and then we did each other's, yeah.

Getting in business with a friend is obviously, like there is a risk, but I think it's also, there's an upside to like, it's kind of similar to maybe how I feel kind of with Matt, where it's like, you guys trust each other. Oh, we don't know how you do it with Matt. We talk about that all the time. Really?

That we can never do it with our boyfriends ever in a million years. We're like, this is so much easier because I don't know how you don't take it home. I would go crazy. I think we just have found this like weird balance where we know how sacred both elements are. And it's like the minute we can tell one of us

is like burnt out, we're like, let's stop talking about work. But we also just like, it's our passion. We love it. Like I don't feel like it's work. So, and then the minute it does feel like it's too much, then we're like, okay's stop talking about work. But we also just like, it's our passion, we love it. Like, I don't feel like it's work. So, and then the minute it does feel like it's too much, then we're like, okay, stop. But I think it's beautiful that you guys have found

this like perfect rhythm. Well, perfect, yeah, yeah, you guys are still filling your note, right? Like it's not perfect. It's perfect. I think the biggest thing that people don't realize, so one thing I'll say is every time we do an interview, they always want like us to hate each other.

They're always asking. If it's, especially if we interview individually, they'll always ask me, what do I hate about they always want us to hate each other. They're always asking. Especially if we interview individually, they'll always ask me, what do I hate about Sophia? What does she hate about me? It's so fucked. It's so weird. Because they really want the beef

between the two women, I think, which I think is really interesting because you see in all narratives, when you have women in business, they always want there to be some sort of cat fight. And I think the clarification is, me and Sophia fight all the time. I mean, we're co-founders and best friends,

but it's about having something so we can figure out all the time. I mean, we're co-founders and best friends, but it's about like having something so we can figure out at the end of the day, like, okay, we disagree on this, but like, if you think that color blue is better, like let's just go for it. And if it's wrong, we'll get rid of it. Like, and then we'll do, you know, my idea next. And so that's like the biggest thing I think we've learned

is just argue really fast. And we have something where we limit arguments to what five minutes now. So at the end of it, we're like, okay, decision time. I'm so mad. I'm like five minutes. We're done. We're not talking about it anymore. We need to make a decision. Like we need to decide what the next step is. So even like getting it off the chest and then at the end of the five minutes, like, okay, what are the action items? Okay. If Phoebe's mad, Phoebe go for walk. Phoebe go get latte. Phoebe go take a nap. Phoebe come back or, you. Or let's make a decision, let's try this.

And then if it fails, okay, great. We'll try it for a week and then do your idea. But I love what you said, Feebee, because it's so real where, yes, people want, whenever there is a duo, people want to be like, how is it not working? And the reality is if anyone's like, it's so perfect, just like a marriage, just like a friendship

and a business relationship, nothing is perfect. And I think it's there should be healthy arguments. Like, and again, it's how you argue is the key factor. The fact that you guys have this like structure where you're like five minutes, let's get through it. That's so healthy. Okay, Sophia, you have talked about feeling pressured to be the perfect immigrant daughter and have more of like a traditional stable career that you felt like at one point you probably would make your

family happy if you went that way. Can you talk about how you ultimately decided to take the risk and go for something that wasn't as predictable and stable? 120%. The only reason I was able to take that leap of faith, move to New York City and work on the company was because of Phoebe. I think honestly, throughout college, it was very much for me, fake it until you make it. Like I put on this confident aura, deeply still I was insecure and scared. And for the first time, it was like seeing this person

who believed in us and honestly who believed in me that we could do this together, made me tell my parents, listen, like I'm taking a leave of absence. I'm leaving Stanford. I know I worked so hard for this. Like, I know this was my dream, but I need to do this. Like, this is our calling. And it was honestly only because of Phoebe, because she said, I know we can do it. I know this is an opportunity. You need to believe in yourself because I believe in us. And I was like, you're so right. And I want to do this. I don't want to be

an environmental lawyer. I don't want to work for the UN. I want to build this company with you for the next five or 10 years. Like we can do it. You're right. And it's just so surreal to think. Yeah, we were bumbling and fumbling in our dorm room, building a smart tampon. We had no idea what we were doing. And now, like we launched FIA and we launched a product we are genuinely

so proud of that we poured like our blood, sweat and tears into. And all because Phoebe was like it's worth it we can take the leap of faith Stanford will always be there it's worth it. Can I ask because obviously you guys sitting on this couch you have such different backgrounds and like you Sophia talking about wanting to get scholarships and getting the scholarships and trying to figure out how to get in the door that way. And then Phoebe coming from a place of privilege and you both kind of like having this like beautiful opposite energy of where you both came from. Like how have you guys like found an equal feeling

to merge your independent lives and your backgrounds into one in a business? I think it's about Phoebe really made me understand like you are a byproduct of your own beliefs. And if they're self limiting, that's how your life is going to pan out. Like you can't have a scarcity mindset. And I think especially when you come from a background where you're being pushed to do something really typical, like climb the career ladder, get the pedigree. You never think about what if, like what if you take that risk.

And Phoebe being able to do that for me has everything to do with just who she is as a person. Like that's just how you're wired. Phoebe, you coming from a place of privilege, your dad being Bill Gates, did you ever feel like it's been difficult to make a name for yourself and really like carve your own path and not just be like Bill Gates' daughter? Yeah, I think 100%. But the tough thing is it's like, yeah, that's difficult,

but that comes with so much privilege, right? Like I didn't have to fight for a scholarship in college. Like I knew what my college was gonna be paid for. I had incredible opportunities because of my parents. If I didn't have my parents as my rock, I wouldn't have been able to have these incredible opportunities. So yes, it came with the thing of like,

oh yeah, I am in my parents' shadows and it is gonna be tough to make a name for myself. I had to learn very early on who were true friends, who weren't true friends. But honestly, I think all in all, I have an incredibly privileged life. And so I think saying that is like, oh, it's a hardship. It isn't really for me because it's like,

I've been so blessed with what I've been given by my parents and I'm never gonna pretend I haven't been. Obviously, we've all seen the nepotism conversation online and I think that's like, there's not a right answer because if people are like, what do you want them to say? And I do feel that from you since the day I've met you, like you're so hardworking, you're so smart. And yes, you have this privilege, but it's beautiful to see what you're doing with it. In a I guess what I would want to ask, because I know you're not saying you're like,

it feel bad for me, but like, how have you walked into rooms and in moments, how do you deal with it when you can feel someone's maybe not, not not taking you seriously, but being like, oh, it's like Bill's daughter, like, we'll just like take the meeting or whatever. Like, have you how have you been like, no, I am an individual and I am smart and I do deserve to be here. Like, how do you push through those feelings of imposter syndrome, but then also knowing your worth? I think it's really about what Sophia said, bake it till you make it. I used to lean too hard of and this is something we've discussed a lot, too hard on the side of I would overshare consistently of like where I'd messed up, there are things that have gone wrong

because I wanted people to feel like I was a real human and not just like a figure or like a figment of my parents. And so I used to lean too hard on the oversharing side. And then I realized like, bake it till you make it. Like if I feel like I am my own person stepping into that room, because frankly, once you get inside a room, it doesn't matter how you got there. Once your foot is in that door, you make it. Like if I feel like I am my own person stepping into that room, because frankly, once you get inside a room, it doesn't matter how you got there.

Once your foot is in that door, you're there. And I think that was like the biggest learning. And then frankly, honestly, not even like something that I did myself, or either of us did, but finding really strong female mentors that were there because they liked us was a huge thing for us. And so finding those people who could say, yeah, you think that's tough for you,

walking into a room and everyone thinks you're just Bill Gates' daughter. Yeah, okay, honey, imagine walking into a room in tech in 1965, like you think you have it tough, babe? Like watch what I did, see the empire I built. And learning from those women has been so critical of how do you like be true to yourself and be your own person?

I completely agree. I love also what you said about having women as mentors. I feel like, I mean, that's literally how we even got connected is like, the more I feel like it's very isolating as a woman in business to connect with other women, because there there is that like scarcity mindset where you see online people trying to tear women down if they're succeeding. And when you see a man succeeding, everyone's like, oh, that's so hot and attractive and go him.

And when a woman is succeeding, it's like, well, she must have done something bad. Who did she fuck? Who did she fuck? Who does she know? Or who did it for her? And she's like just the face of it. Like there's, they're always trying to tear it down. I think when men are assertive also in business, people are like,

wow, this is so attractive and a great quality as where when a woman is assertive in business, she's considered a bitch. How have you guys navigated being women in business, being business owners and bosses and navigating all of it? I think it's easy because we're bitches. and navigating all of it. I think it's easy because we're bitches. Oh, shit. We lay down the law. That's the reality. Sophia.

We are hardcore bitches. I know, what if we all just start saying like, yeah, I'm the biggest bitch. I'm such a fucking bitch. Like, yup, and what else? Like, it is kind of like, yeah, just own it. I think the hardest thing for us was learning originally how to fire people.

Because I feel like as a woman, you are asked to be everything. When someone reaches out for you and wants support or wants advice, you feel like you need to respond to that email, you're not giving back, you're not helping out. There's this aspect where you feel like you need to show up as a girlfriend, as a friend and a founder.

And so I think for us learning really early on to separate the emotions, be like, I can't be everything for someone. I can't be emotions, be like, I can't be everything for someone. Like I can't be someone's emotional support. I can't be their friend necessarily. If they're my employee and I have to let them go, I have to have a wall there of how I do it.

And I feel like we allow men to have that wall, but we don't let women have that. It's so fucking true. And hearing you say that, I'm just thinking about like, how many women are listening to this episode right now and have tried to go in and advocate for themselves in the workplace let's say. How many women have walked in and asked for something whether it's a raise or fair treatment or whatever it be and I know as a woman because I've done it myself we're always apologizing like sorry like I know you don't have that much time And it's like a man would never walk in and feel anxious and feel like they have to kind of like placate the energy and kind of like also throw in a smile and also throw in like a compliment.

And we as women, I feel like we have all these little cushions that we surround the hard truth information that we want to deliver because as a woman, we need to be graceful and we can't be a bitch. And we want to come off as sweet and kind and not intimidating where a man is like, I think I deserve the rave. This is the things that I've done to deserve it. And let me know if you can give me the raise or not. I think that's a great piece of advice to women

is maybe we need to start really thinking to ourselves. Emotion, yes, it's what we've trained, we've been trained to do since we were born. But when it comes to business, you are as deserving as the person out there with a fucking penis. And so start moving forward and acting like that and be like, you know what, let me try it. Cause I've been doing this recently and as scary as it is

to wonder like, oh my God, is someone gonna call me a bitch? I've just been way more direct running a business. You have to be direct. Is it scary? Fuck yes, is someone gonna call me a bitch? I've just been way more direct. Running a business, you have to be direct. Is it scary? Fuck yes, because I'm also in a public situation where someone could go and be like, Alex is a bitch. I'm like, no, I just told you the job wasn't good enough. If that makes me a bitch, totally fine.

But if it came out of Matt's mouth, you would have if anything been like, okay, damn, I wanna go work harder. So I like this that you're saying of like firing people or trying to be everything for everyone, you can't. So maybe we just need you're saying of like firing people or being trying to be everything for everyone. You can't. So maybe we just need to start saying fuck it. And if the if the word gets out that you're a bitch, okay, you're doing just fine. What has been the hardest double standard you guys feel like you've had to overcome together? Children, always children. We'll have investors

ask us all the time, well, what happens when you two go have babies? And I remember one time like crying about that, I called my mom and she's like, get up or get out the game, sis. I was like, damn. But I think just like the assumption that, you know, in your career, if you're a woman and if an investor puts in money and you're going to be around for 10 years, that like, you know, that you're going to have kids and then you're going to fuck off. Someone asked that to us, like literally an investor on a call was like,

so what's gonna happen to your company when you have kids? And we were like, what's gonna happen to your venture firm when you have kids? I was like, Sophia, calm it down, calm it down. I'm like, what about you, huh? And he's like, why would that affect anything? And I was like, you answered your own question. It's so true and it's so crazy because that's not a one-off.

It's wild you say that. I just had someone ask me the same thing. No way. We were talking about a specific thing for business that we were considering launching and someone asked me about my timeline for kids and I was like oh my god and it's like imagine ever asking a man that listen I, I get it, that our bodies are going through something that the man doesn't have to go through. However, like, it's so inappropriate. And in my brain, when I have a kid, I'm like, Matt, we're 50, 50, if anything. You're 70 and I'm 30 because I already have an extra

fucking 100% that's on me anyways. So step up, buddy. Like, that is so crazy. Wow. Do you have any advice for women in the workplace when they're dealing with this like kids timeline, all of it? Like obviously none of us have kids right now, but like how do you deal with it? Keep a wind sheet. Always. My biggest hack is keep a wind sheet of things that you've done. I had someone come to me recently and they, they wanted something. They wanted to do a project or something and they came with a wind sheet of things that you've done. I had someone come to me recently and they wanted something, they wanted to do a project or something. And they came with a wind sheet of,

here's everything I've done for the business. Here's how I've affected the bottom line. Here's the things I've created. And I was like, oh my God, you're so right. You did do all those things. I thought I did those. But I was like, no, you did those things. Like, of course then you deserve this.

And I think having that, because then you can't be doubted. You can't be on your back foot of, oh, what's gonna happen when, you know, you're a mother, blah, blah, blah. If you can show up to your boss and say, this is my win sheet, this is what I've created for the company, and this is what I deserve,

I think that's the biggest thing. And having, writing that down, even for yourself when you start to doubt yourself, and going to look at that is a huge thing. Such good advice, because it's also like, don't worry about that. I'll handle that. This is what I've done, and I'm gonna continue to do this.

And just don't answer questions you don't wanna answer. Sophia's taught me this so much. Like when someone asks you something and it's necessarily in a professional setting, it's not a conversation. It's a question and it's a response. And your response doesn't need to be an answer to that question, especially like in any sort

of media setting, it's just a response. So you can twist that and say whatever you want and spin it into your thing. You just need to respond. You don't need to answer their question because sometimes people ask inappropriate questions. ["Time to Ruin Me"] Okay, you guys are obviously so well put together, but we're gonna play a game called Have You Ever Been Unwell?

I'm gonna give you an unwell scenario and you tell me if it has ever happened to you. Have you ever embarrassed yourself in front of someone famous? Sophia, that's all you says. This is such an embarrassing story. And Phoebe knows exactly what I'm talking about, because I talk about it all the time, because I just can't forget it, because I'm so embarrassed. But we went to so Michael Rubin had this charity party for like, it was like a poker charity party, right? We're freaking out. This is so cool. All these cool people are there. We're like, Oh,

my God, we look at me to look amazing, whatever. So my dumb ass wears like these five inch stiletto heels because I need to look like a bomb ass bitch. And so we go to this poker night thing and I'm like walking down the stairs being like, don't fall, don't fall, don't fall, don't fall. It's a huge like, it's like, so here's the entire poker room. There's probably what? 200 people in here and there's a staircase like this.

We think we're having our moment. You know, no one knows who we are. No one has any idea but each other. We're walking down the stairs like, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, like slow motion. I'm like, we look so sexy. It's like Cinderella's story. You're like, I've arrived.

Exactly. I fucking tumble. Like, I'm not even joking. It was like a movie, like two flights of stairs. It was really bad. Bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum. I like collapse on the floor. I am literally, I swear to God, gushing blood from my leg.

I'm wearing a long dress, no one can see it. I'm gushing blood. I'm like, I have a concussion. And then I look up, I'm dizzy. I think it's Phoebe and I'm like, yo bro, I need help. And then- Literally, she goes, yo bro. It is Jay-Z.

No. It is fucking Jay-Z being like, hey, are you okay? I'm literally like- He goes, that was really embarrassing. I'm like, I literally can't speak. I'm just like, yeah. And he literally goes, I know you're, you're embarrassed, right? It's okay. Don't be. It's going to be okay. Are you okay? I'm like, yes, sir. Absolutely. I am so okay. Do not worry at all I am so good. Please please just please leave. I'm gonna start crying. Please, please, please, please, please go away Take his hand. Yes, of course. He's so he was such a gentleman. He was so sweet He literally was like, hey, like do you need someone to come over here? I'm like, no, no, I promise. I'm so okay

This is so embarrassing. Everyone's looking at me. Please stop. You're like, no, I just need to leave I was like I need to leave and then anyway he he like helps me up so sweet and then leaves and then Phoebe walks over and I'm like, I am so embarrassed. I need to leave. Like I'm literally gushing blood. Phoebe's like, no, I wanna go play poker.

Phoebe is a blackjack god. Do you wanna tell her what happened after this? Much more important actually, part of the story. Well, I'm kind of a loser. So before like the party, I had memorized the stats of how you can win Blackjack. Like what are the most, you know, the best statistical plays to win

because it's game of luck, right? And I was at somehow I ended up at a table with Tom Brady and I ended up beating him in Blackjack, which Sophia will not stop talking about. I talk about it every day. You shouldn't stop talking about it. That's actually so cool. I'm gushing blood losing this game.

I have no idea how to play. I look over the whole crowd is around Phoebe. Phoebe the fucking mastermind beating Tom Brady at Blackjack and everyone's like, who is that girl? I told everyone I was an influencer. I'm like, it's called IMG and I model for them. It was tough. DNA and IMG, they had a lot of debate over me,

but it's been a busy career. Meanwhile, you're like counting cards. And he still, he says it to you. I ran into him once recently and he was like, blackjack. I was like, that is so, okay. I'm again like, Tom Brady knows who you are. This is so insane. He doesn't know my name.

He just knows I was the girl with the ink written of the different stats on my hands. He knows you're an influencer. Baby, you're a model influencer. Wait, okay, speaking of famous people, your boyfriend is the grandson of Paul McCartney. Indeed. Are you a Beatles person?

Oh man, it's so bad. I'm so bad at music. I mean, my family were so nerdy, so I knew nothing about music. I knew about tech stuff growing up, not music stuff. So I remember early on, he was so excited like he thought he was in Rizmi He took me to an Elton John concert and Elton John comes out in like a bedazzled tracksuit. I'm like is Elton John gay? His entire family starts dying laughing and now we've been dating like almost two years every time I see them

They're like, oh, it's Elton John gay. Oh my god. This girl went to Stanford. It's Elton John Gay. Oh my God, you're like, this girl went to Stanford, it's Elton John Gay. Are you kidding me? Oh no. Unfortunately, Arthur does not have any musical talent. I've been trying to get him to serenade me for a very long time, but it has not happened. I'm not okay that you're like, Elton John, they're like, you dumb bitch.

Okay, but you're learning. Yes, I am learning. Okay, that's good for you. Okay, have you ever ghosted someone? Yeah, oh yeah. I feel like you're so good at ghosting people on the low. I just, yeah, I don't respond. I mean, I'm so bad at my inbox,

I have ADHD that I just randomly ghost people, I'm not gonna lie. What is the most unhinged lie you've ever told to get out of plans? Sophia. Okay, well Phoebe would always make fun of me in college because I was- I had a template email, a template lie email.

I had a template lie email because I was trying to juggle so much in college with all our work stuff. Justify it, sister. And my own, my climate and my UN stuff, whatever. I had so much going on and I obviously always needed a deadline extension on my stuff.

Yeah, just keep talking. And you're like, and then this is the reason I also had to do it and then this is the reason I out. What did you do? So I had a folder of image. This is so crazy. So psychotic. So I had a folder of images that I had a folder of image. This is so crazy. So I had a folder of images that I had with like really random, like weird, crazy people.

No, with famous people. With famous people, but like, like the Pope famous, not like. Dolly Mama and the Pope and Malala were in this folder. Yes, Malala, Pope, whatever. And one photo of her in the hospital from when she had the stomach virus. I did use that hospital photo many times. And so I have a folder of photos that I know I can attach to an email

that guarantees me a get out of jail free card. When you tell your professor, I'm so sorry, I am meeting the Pope this week, I really need an extension, they are all like, absolutely, you get the extension. 100%, it always works. Phoebe's like, you're going to hell. She has one. Temporary email with Dalai Lama, one with the extension, a hundred percent. It always worked. It all, Phoebe's like, you're going to hell. She has one, one with the Pope,

one with some, a couple of different climate guys. And then one is the, this horrific photo I took of her in the hospital when like a TA would be like, why'd you miss class? She'd be like, so sorry. I have been very ill. And you're fucking attaching a hospital photo. I did. I have a cell. I, it was a selfie of me going like this in my hospital.

Oh yeah. I'll pull it up. I was like my hospital band. So have a selfie, it was a selfie of me going like this in my hospital gown. Oh yeah, I'll pull it up. With like my hospital band. Honestly? So they couldn't because I was like, I'm really sick right now and they're like, it's due tomorrow. And I'm like, I'm literally in the hospital.

You are so mean. You're horrible. You're hard to understand. That is kind of so genius. Although the fucking hospital one, I can't decide, because I get it, if you say you're in the hospital, most teachers are gonna be like, go fuck yourself.

No, you're not. Like, where are the receipts? But then a selfie as opposed to just like, the paperwork is fucking nuts. I'm like, I'm so sorry, I'm delirious. This is the only thing I can send you. This is literally like, I'm in the hospital. Like, do you know what a horrible person you have to be

to tell someone they can't have an extension if they have literally given you a selfie in the hospital? And I item green. It would just be so awkward because sometimes we'd have overlapping TAs for different classes and they'd come up to me, they're like, oh, so bummed, Sophia missed last week. And then I would try to suss out the conversation to see what email she had sent them.

Cause I'm not sure if it's like, oh yeah, it's so cool. She did meet the Pope last week, how great is that? Versus like, did she send the hospital selfie email? Cause that's like a little different conversation I have to have. So I'd be like, as they're talking to me, I'm like, did she send the hospital selfie email? Cause that's like a little different conversation I have to have. So I'd be like, as they're like talking to me, I'm like, yes, it is very interesting that she missed that. I would always tell Phoebe, you have to fucking cover for me, bro. I'm dead. I'm like literally dead at the hospital.

Phoebe one time is like, how incredible. And they're like, she's in the hospital. She was green. I'm like, incredibly sad is what it is. It really is. That girl, she works herself too hard. Dude, Sylvia, you're fucking savvy over there. You're coming up with some good ass shit. Okay, let's talk relationship. Have you guys ever gone for the same guy?

There was a guy, we'll say Alejandro, we'll call him because he's Spanish. I like that. So both of us have these relationships that end. He ended up being both of our rebounds. Importantly, my rebound first, I'd just like to say. But this guy is gorgeous. And the reality is there's three attractive guys

at Stanford, so it's absolutely blown out of proportion. And Alejandro was like, I was down bad. This guy was not interested. I think we made out like a couple times and he not look, he was like pretty narcissistic. And it- Hella, hella narcissistic. My favorite quote from him is saying

that he was the best person that Sophia had ever met and Dalai Lama and Pope were number two and three tied. This guy's psycho, he's psycho. But I warned Sophia after her breakup. I was like, be very careful. Like you're going through a breakup. Like we've been there. I've been down bad for Alejandro. We know there's no one else on this campus. Avoid Alejandro at all costs. He's a witch. And Sophia's like, please like I'm a bad bitch. Like I'm never going to fall for this trap. Like you're so stupid.

And I was like, okay. But like just so you know, like if you and Alejandro get together, like I'm not going to be upset. Like I understand there's literally one attractive guy on this campus and I can point to him. And, but I'm just gonna warn you like it's not gonna end well. My relationship has ended and I'm like, I'm a guy's never gonna look at me again. I'm so devastated.

I don't know how to talk to boys. And Alejandro comes up to me. He has like long kind of like highlight, but it's natural and he's like so buff. So sexy and he comes up to me. He has like long kind of like highlight, but it's natural and he's like so buff. So sexy and he comes up to me at a party and he's like talking to me, he's flirting with me. I'm like, oh my God. And this whole time I'm like, Phoebe,

ew, I would never go for Alejandro. I have no idea what you're talking about. You're psychotic. He comes over and woos me. And then I go back and I'm like, Phoebe, Alejandro was flirting with me. I'm really flustered. I don't know what to do.

Phoebe's like, dude, go for it. I get it. But just know, like he on the low sucks. And I'm like, but he was just so charismatic and beautiful and handsome and sweet and smart. And oh my God, he's just the best. And it ended up in flames. So now he texts us.

So we put him to therapy because- What? We did. The next thing I know is I'm like, and if things get messed with Alejandro, I don't wanna be included in this drama because I've already had a pep talk with him about me being down bad for him and like it not working out between us. So I don't wanna be involved

at things to a south with you two. Next thing I know, I'm in a group chat with Sophia and Alejandro and she's texting him about how he should go to therapy, which apparently he did. How long did each of you last with Alejandro, and she's texting him about how he should go to therapy, which apparently he did. How long did each of you last with Alejandro? Literally like two weeks. It's like a dream.

Mine was bad, like two months. Oh, not like on and off for like two months, but now it's a bit where he's like, my company, my Fia, my girls, like, how are my ladies? He's gonna be so gassed that he's included on this podcast. Like, you don't understand the texts we're about to get. Wait. We're like best friends now.

He has like a really hot girlfriend. We're really happy for him. It's actually really disappointing. The therapy fixed him. Like he's a good boyfriend. We were kind of hoping with Karma that she wouldn't be cute. We're like, nah, there's no way. We looked at the Instagram.

It was very tough. And you guys were like the stepping stones. We were the stepping stones. You guys made them into a better man. We did. And now a deserving woman gets him. 100%. But you guys are happily in your relationships.

Yes. Can you explain to me, because I'm sure people are fascinated, what is it like introducing a guy to your dad? What is it like introducing a guy to your dad? I think terrifying for the guy for me, hilarious because my dad's like pretty socially awkward. Like he said, he's, you know, has Asperger's. Like to me, it's so funny. But for guys, I think they get like really wigged out. And I'll never forget like early in high school, before I had like a long-term boyfriend, it

was like one of my first like dances, maybe my like sophomore or junior year. And my mom had like signed my dad up to drive me and the boy to the dance together. First off, my dad insisted on us listening to NPR the entire 30 minute drive. He stopped for fast food. Then he calls the guy, he's like, be responsible tonight, Max Diemenhauer. His name was Maxwell Dannenhauer. Literally wanted to die. But honestly, I think now it's become easier for me

because it's just funny. When you introduce a guy to your dad and it's like, depending on how he reacts, that's how you know if he's gonna be a good guy or not. Such a good point. Wait, how are you and your dad different and similar? I'm way more of a people person than he is. He would 100% say that.

Like it used to be a joke of like our family would be so boring if I wasn't born. I'd force my dad like at the dad daughter dances, my mom would like have us go to, I'd force my dad to go like talk to all the other dads and daughters there. And he would get like nervous and leave. And I was like, no, like if we're here,

we're gonna socialize. Like we gotta work this room, Bill. Like these other dad and daughters, they're sweeping us up. Like we gotta get out here. So I'd say we're very different in that way. I'd say in terms of similarness, we're both very competitive.

I mean, you do not wanna play a board game with the two of us. And that's actually worse than introducing a guy to my dad is my dad's always like, let's play pickleball. Let's play a board game together. Let's do a puzzle together. And the second you do that, like the guy's like trying to put two pieces together,

my dad's like grabs the pieces out of his hands, like shoving them together. So that is actually when it's really nerve wracking to put a guy around my dad. Like pickleball with my dad, he like puts on his glasses. He's like, boom, boom. Have you experienced this, pickleball with my dad, he like puts on his glasses, he's like, foom, foom. Have you experienced this competitiveness? Oh my god, this is so embarrassing. But the first time that I met Bill, we were going

to a concert or something. And so it was like me and Phoebe and a couple friends and we were all staying at Phoebe's house. And so her dad was there, which I am an idiot and I obviously people's parents are at their houses. So I literally have face gems all over my face. So sustainable face gem companies sent face gems to Sofia. I was like, throw the, burn those things. She was like, these are immaculate. Yes, I'm like literally like in my sparkly set with my face gems, blah, blah, blah.

I'm walking, I'm walking, I'm walking. Boom, I run straight into Bill Gates. And he's like, wow, I like your outfit, who are you? And I'm like, I'm Sophia, I'm Phoebe's co-founder actually, we're in business together. And he's like, oh, it's really nice to meet you, Sophia, I like your outfit. I'm like, so, so nice to meet you, Bill, so nice,

I need to go, I need to go. And then I'm literally like, Phoebe, why would you not tell me your dad is here? This is so weird and embarrassing. Like I don't want to meet anyone's parents with fucking glitter all over my face. And she's like, did you not think my parents were going to be here?

Like, hello, obviously I just was dumb, but it was literally, I honestly still, every time I see your dad, I'm like, he probably thinks I'm so weird. He honestly probably does not remember it all, I guarantee. Right, he didn't remember. Okay, this crazy bitch.

Anyways, bye, don't care. That is that. You're like, I wish I I remember. Okay, this crazy bitch. Anyways, bye, don't care. That is that. You're like, I wish I was in a suit and like really presenting. But then honestly, like, look, it worked out. You guys are still in business together. Yes. Okay, let's talk about Fia.

So by the time this comes out, you'll have been one week launched. One, just tell me how much are you twitching to look at your phones right now? Very much. I'm like, I need to text Vythcroft. You guys literally just launched. How are you feeling?

Honestly, it's been so exciting. So Fia is currently on the top 100 shopping charts. We were basically crying. And then we were like, wait, our makeup needs to look good for Call Her Daddy. Because we were so excited. But honestly, it's just been such a long time in the making. When we were in college, we probably

had no idea that what we would end up launching is now Fia is an app and a shopping tool where basically as you're shopping in one click, it will find you the best price on fashion. So it's like, say you're looking at like a thousand dollar Gucci bag, Fia pops up and then you ask it, should I buy it? And it's like, girl, no, the price is high. Like you can buy this for $250 on the real real or on like eBay, whatever. And then you can save like 75% off. And so it was honestly the tool that we wished we had in college because what me and Phoebe really bonded over is we loved secondhand shopping, but it's just so hard. There's so

many sites like you never know if like one reseller scamming you or not. And so we built this like really easy tool so that anyone while they're shopping can get this like instant price track, kind of like Google flights for fashion. And I honestly think we were really nervous this morning, but just seeing girls like DM us being like, wait, this is so smart. Like, this is so helpful. Like, now I can save time and money. And like, I'm so glad that you guys built this and thought about us. So someone listening today, walk me quickly through, what do they do? You go to the app store, you download Fia,

you basically click a button that says, take me to Safari. You go to Safari, you click, and then you turn on the extension, you toggle it on. And then there's two pop-ups that show up. And then you need to say, I want to allow Fia on every shopping website. Every website is the key, not for one day, not for just this website, every website. That's where everyone falls off. And then you're done. It's honestly like one, two, three app

toggle permissions. You're done. I'm so excited for you guys. I'm excited for Fia. I'm excited for the burnouts. I think everything you guys are doing is so exciting and it's so nice to meet people and get to know people that are like so smart in such a different field than me. I think it's like very stimulating to listen to you guys and talk to you guys because I think what we've probably

all recognized is there's so much through line between all of these different industries. And when you think that you can't relate, you're like, oh, there's all the same themes of being stressed, staying up late at night. Like everyone listening is gonna take something from this. And it's inspiring to hear you guys talk about the story. I love you guys.

This was so fun. I feel like we got like a good amount of chaotic fun and also like really good advice. And honestly, like the hacks, the hacks that you brought. At Journal Request. No, it's crazy., the hacks that you brought. At journal request. No, it's crazy. Hashtag journal request.

Everyone go become famous. We're gonna be eating that up before this goes nice next week, because then the hack is gonna be dead. No, and we also need, we all need our own Kobe, okay? No, I love you guys. Thank you so much for coming on Call or Daddy. This was a dream. You guys are amazing.

Congrats. Thank you so much, Alex. Download Fia on the App Store now.