Call Her Daddy - RuPaul: Blocking Out the Bullshit

Episode Date: March 13, 2024

Join Alex in the studio for a very raw interview with RuPaul! Alex and RuPaul discuss when he feels his most confident and why he prefers to be alone. RuPaul talks about his childhood and how he always knew he was different from the other kids. He opens up about his parents’ broken relationship, the day his mom tried to set his father’s car on fire, and how he found himself mimicking their toxic behaviors in his own life. Alex and RuPaul discuss emotionally unavailable men, why it’s so important to break the cycle of bad partners, and how it truly doesn’t matter what other people think of you. RuPaul tells some crazy stories from his early days in the club scene and gets real about what he was doing to avoid confronting his feelings. RuPaul opens up about meeting his husband, falling in love, breaking up, and how they ultimately found their way back to each other. This interview is full of wisdom and shows a side of RuPaul we’ve never seen before… Enjoy!

What is up, Daddy Gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper, with Call Her Daddy. Okay, okay, okay. RuPaul, welcome to Call Her Daddy. Thanks. Thank you so much for being here. I am very, very excited to talk to you. I think my fans are going to freak out. I think this collab is going to be very fun. When are you your most confident? When I'm alone. People freak me out, man.

People are freaky. Most people think of confidence as power or as having stuff or doing things. But I feel most confident when I'm not distracted by other people's bullshit. Period. Would you consider yourself high or low maintenance? Oh, I am so low maintenance. I am so low maintenance. You would not believe it.

Really? Yes. I can take care of myself. And you know what? I open my own door. I take care of myself. Being alone with yourself, being good with yourself, and relying on yourself, it's kind of all you fucking need.

It really is. Okay, let's talk about your memoir congratulations the house of hidden meanings i think that this book is incredible because you offer like a very personal look into your childhood you offer a personal look into early relationships and just some of the biggest struggles that you've been through in your life so let's get into it as little boy, did you want to be famous? Like, would anyone have been surprised that you became famous in your life? No one would have been surprised that I became famous. And did I want to become famous? It wasn't even about did I want to, I knew it was my destiny. I felt that people would had pointed me out from a very early age that says, hey, who are you?

What are you doing? Hey, you, you know, I was always different is the wrong. It was it was someone that people noticed. Right. So I knew that somehow my destiny involved being out front. And the truth is, I am an introvert masquerading as an extrovert. And I can do it. I can do the thing like, hey, how you doing? What's up? Hey, you know what? Is that cashmere? Oh my God, I love cashmere. Cashmere, not the word cashmere, you know, where I just go

on and just look like I'm being open, open, open. I know how to do it. But the truth is, my real sense is, you know you know i'm just being chill just being chill do you get exhausted it can exhaust me i i you know if i'm not uh working i like to spend time alone to recharge my battery but it can be exhausting now i usually keep that hidden tucked away and i pretend like oh my god is that cashmere and I'll do the thing but the truth is I don't give a fuck about cashmere but I do that to get through to get through life and to maintain and to you know uh to get endorsement deals and to get uh people to like me on social and do all the stuff first of all thank you for just being honest because I think a lot of people actually

will completely relate to what you're saying of like, it's fucking exhausting trying to walk into work, walk into rooms and having to put on a facade because at the end of the day, none of us are going to be completely the same when we walk into a room with other people than we are when we're alone.

But there is a world of social currency that you need to somewhat engage in especially if this is your career it's like you're right you gotta sit across from me right now and i'm sorry but i'm gonna ask you questions about this memoir listen i i do enjoy cashmere from time to time you know i can do the thing but what most people don't know about me is that is that base level thing which is um don't take any of this too seriously otherwise you get yourself caught up in in trouble and and and wars and you know getting your feelings hurt I mean it's it's a lot it's a lot um in the book you talk a lot about your family dynamics can you kind of paint the picture of what your relationship was like with your mother growing up i loved my mother i love the

fact that she too she didn't believe the bullshit she just didn't and and unfortunately for her i think most of that came out of uh world weariness and i think uh she didn't talk about her childhood very much, but, or at all, but I have a feeling some really awful things happened to her as a little girl. And so she was very world weary. So she didn't put up the pretense, you know, like I can do the cashmere speak. She did not at all, at all. And she would cuss someone out. We could cuss in the house. We could, you know, and, you know, I felt growing up, my role was to sort of lift her up. And I did.

And I would do my impersonations for her, you know, of Tina Turner or Geraldine from the Flip Wilson show. But she was, she had a dark, dark cloud over her. And I related to that. I understood it very well because if you look at the world with x-ray eyes, there is so much darkness and sadness. So I choose joy. Now, that doesn't mean that I don't recognize the darkness or the pain. And I do. I look at the darkness, but I don't stare at it. I want to say that again so you motherfuckers can get it. I look at the darkness, but I don't stare because it will suck you in.

And you are a powerful witch. You are powerful. You can create whatever life you want life asked what do you want me to be okay i'll be that i also was just thinking i may be butchering this i remember there was this one line that you wrote about her basically saying something about like if i'm not paying their fucking taxes why the fuck do i give a shit what they're doing if they ain't paying your bills pay them bitches no mind that was my mother and it's true and it's it's it's sort of uh you know the same uh philosophy is um uh what other people think of me is none of my business I'm curious

though when you talk about your mother in the book as you know as strong as she was, as a child, it seemed like there wasn't a lot of this affection and coming to you with love. How do you think you internalize that as a child? Yeah. Well, first of all, I put her first and I understood what her pain was. So I guess I justified her not being that affectionate or that sort of idea of mothering that we all think of. She was not that. In adulthood, I understood that, oh, she probably could have been more loving. But at the time, I felt empathy for her because I knew that she was in so much pain. I mean, she was always, the whole time of my childhood, she was at war with my father, you know, and it made me feel like a diplomat. And it taught me how to read the room and figure out what people needed. I knew what I could say around my

father and what I could say around my mother, these warring factors, and to not incriminate one or the other. I knew how to give them what they wanted without telling, giving too much information about my mother to my father and vice versa. You talk about this big moment where your mom finds out that your dad was cheating on her in the book. Can you kind of like talk to me about that day? Because it was a pretty intense day. Well, he'd always been, you know, out seeing other women. But this one, I guess, this time it just rubbed her the wrong way. And we will circle back around to the whole idea of cheating too because, you know, x-ray eyes on a situation.

Is cheating really a thing? I mean, come on on people do things men want to spread it around it's just the animal that that they are now if someone promises you that that all of this area here is going to be only for them they're lying you think oh no not think darling not think that it's and i know for women they're like oh no um he's gonna be mine forever like um who the fuck are you fooling so everyone's cheating it's not it's not cheating if you say you're gonna save all of this area for one person you are cheating on yourself you are cheating on yourself. You are cheating on yourself. Should I not get married? I'm engaged.

You get married, do whatever you want, but why would you, to the person you love the most, why would you put restrictions on them? And your best friend in the whole wide world, who you love more than anyone else, why would you say, okay, if you're presented with a situation that is so fabulous and so lovely, I don't want you to do it. That is like the, that is such an interesting way to look at it. And I love it. You can get mad at me all you want with this philosophy. I didn't come up with it. It's just my observation. And it's, it's true. And I grew up, you know, I'm around men and men who are listening to this are going yeah they're like he's right look away look away no it's true it's true

so um yeah what happened with my mother and father two people who should have never been together you know uh he parked the car in the garage of our house and she poured gasoline all over the car and said motherfucker i will light this bitch up and um i'm five years old my sister's uh rosie is four renee and renette are seven years older than me we're across the street from the house looking at this scene and uh the whole neighborhood is out there watching and she's like i will and irving is my father saying um uh tony please please don't donate and she's she's got a pack of matches in her hand saying i will do it i'll do it eventually uh sister harris from uh her church comes and and talks her out of it and everything is gone. And the fire trucks are there,

everything. But when I think back on this scene, I'm not in my body. I'm actually like a camera on a dolly or a jib looking at the whole scene, moving around the scene like a camera outside of my body. And what happens with young people, and we all do this, is we dissociate. And so that the trauma of what's going on doesn't affect us on an emotional level. We separate from our bodies. We separate from our bodies. And so I don't remember coming back into my body until I got sober, which was right before I turned 40. I was outside of my body the whole time because it wasn't safe enough to be in there with those feelings.

When you look back at that moment, what does it make you feel for your younger self? I feel sad for my younger self. I absolutely do. Let's talk about your relationship with your father. Because I know that you wrote that you felt very abandoned by him in moments in your life. And I'm wondering if you can kind of just like paint the picture of that dynamic and if there are specific memories that come up. At the time, I felt abandoned by him. But through years and years and years and years of therapy,

I realized he had abandoned himself. It wasn't personal. It's like reading the comments on YouTube or whatever about yourself. It has nothing to do with me. It had everything to do with him. I think I'm talking too fast. I need to say that all of that one more time. This is how fast I usually talk. So we can let go as fast as you want or we can go super slow. People really need to understand what I just said, which is that it had nothing to do with me.

Of course, as a child, I thought, he just doesn't like me. No, he didn't like himself, baby. It had nothing to do with you. Now, my ego wanted to make it about me, but no, no. I saw a psychic 30 years ago who said, well, you and your father shared past lives together. So when you came into this life together, you were like, hey, buddy, it's you. Let's party. Let's boogie. Hey, we're going to rule the school. But he could not see me.

And I spent so much time saying, wait, you need joy? I'll give you some of my joy. You need a reminder? Let me remind you of who you are. Could not see it. And through therapy, I realized, well, he couldn't see it because for a person to become present in this moment, and this is true of every human on this planet to be present in this moment would invite you to recognize how much pain you're in right now. So we distract ourselves with whatever we can get our hands on to not experience the depth of pain that we are in.

But to move forward in this life, you have to walk through that fire. You have to walk through that pain to get to the other side. There's no other way. There isn't. And I think it can take people a lifetime. Some people never get to that point. Some people engage in therapy and then they're like, oh, fuck, I don't want to do this. But it's like you have to open it up to actually see what's in there to then get through it to get on the other side. You're right. And I think about the this this moment that you write about in the book where you would sit outside your house on the steps and you're waiting for your dad and you're waiting for your dad. And I think you're so right where so many people can relate probably that are listening to like yearning for from like their parents for

something that they want and you're so right like it had nothing to fucking do with you he wasn't not showing up because he's like god i hate rude i don't want to see his face when i pull up to the house but you're sitting there being like he didn't come home because of me and it's like it literally had nothing to do with you that's right but that's hard to understand at such a young age so you just internalize it like damn my dad my dad fucking hates me. He's abandoned me. I'm nothing. Like, what's wrong with me? That's right.

How did your relationship with your father inform the romantic relationships and men you ended up pursuing and choosing? Well, obviously, I never got that validation from my father. So of course, playing the role of Ruth's father today is so-and-so. And it's like the exact replica, charming, charismatic, good-looking, but not available. So I would replay this thing over and over, relationship after relationship, until I ultimately met George, who was someone who chased me, chased me. And I didn't know what to do with it. I said, you know, okay, so let me, it changed everything. It changed everything. And of course, I had to get in touch with my ability to love myself.

Even just to accept it, like even you saying like, which we're going to get to, like when you met your husband, it must have been such a strange feeling to accept a love that you had never experienced. Your mother being distant, your father not showing up for you to then have someone pursuing you. You're like, what the fuck is going on? Like this feels good, but what's off? And so in a strange way, a lot of the times the the the thing we're used to that is what we gravitate towards because it's the norm even if it's fucking toxic and even if it's unhealthy and it's like what the preach bitch right preach it's fucked testify you're like i love this and it's like but you watched your father abuse your mother you watch

it so it as fucked up as it is well that you never saw a healthy relationship so how would you know like not to be scared when someone is just being loving being nice coming to you pursuing you you're not begging for attention and affection and love you're like the is going on run something must be off did i do is it just genuine is he lying is he using me what is like you you spiral and then you run back to what you're used to and you're like how do we end the cycle? Which you eventually did. But let's pause. We need to stay in the 20s.

We need to stay in the 20s. Then we'll get to the husband. But what you're describing is an abused child who's taken away from abusive home, leaves there and longs to go back home. Because that is what they know. And oppressed people take on the characteristic of their oppressor. And how do you break that cycle? You have to hit some type of rock bottom to get to that place. And it is the most difficult thing you will ever do in your entire life.

When you talk about these early relationships that you went through before you found your husband, you say it felt like you would absorb your parents' toxic behaviors and patterns. Fucking relatable. I understand you would like go for people that weren't available. But like take me to a moment in a room with someone like what were you putting up with? And then you would pause and be like, am I literally replicating what my fucking parents did? Like how am I here? Well, what, what the biggest offense is not trusting your instinct and your intuition about something. This is something they don't tell you about what

getting old, uh, gives you is that you learn to trust your intuition about a situation, a person. And, you know, when you are, you know, somewhat hypnotized by a person like I was early 20s, all of that intuition, you push it to the side because you think this is exactly what I need. This is what I need. It looks like the validation and love I was supposed to get from my father or from my mother. But that never works. And in fact, the only validation you ever need really is from your adult self to your child. Yeah. It's just, it's so fucking hard to break the cycle. And, and I want to talk about your twenties. You became this well-known performer in the club scene. And I know you referenced, like I was dissociating most of my life until I got sober. And so let's talk about when you

weren't sober, taking the partying too far, indulging so heavily in these moments. Can you talk to me about your club life back then? Yeah. Well, listen, I used for 30 years. The first 20 were a blast. I had a great time. It was those last 10 that were pure hell. I had a blast. I had a blast until it didn't work anymore. And you know what? Thank God for the drugs and alcohol because it saved my life. It gave me a layaway plan, a deferment plan until I was strong enough to deal with what was going on. And thankfully, I found a 12-step program that really, really, really helped me so much that I am in love with. And so I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for that. I would not be here if it wasn't the success I have today. I wouldn't

have that if it weren't for this 12-step program, because it takes you through a process of walking back to the scene of the crime and forgiving yourself and giving you the tools, the processing tools to deal with all of the trauma of what life is. You know, we all live with so much trauma. And, you know, I feel that not just America, I think the whole world is, needs to hit rock bottom before we can pull ourselves up because we, you know, I feel that not just America, I think the whole world is, needs to hit rock bottom before we can pull ourselves up because we, you know, there are two ways to learn. You can learn intellectually, or you can learn by hitting your head on the, on the, on the corner of the thing. Mama said, Rue, don't touch that stove. And now if I were smart, I would have thought, well, mama's been around for a while. She probably knows the right thing.

I'm going to touch the stove. That's who we are. We touch the stove. We are bashing our heads against everything. And I agree with you. I think there's going to have to be a rebuild moment. I appreciate the way you just explained, though, like the drugs and the alcohol and what they were for you because I think people that haven't had hardship in their life are the people that are like why don't you just leave the abusive

relationship why don't you just leave just stop and it's like the pain that you're describing and the pain that people go through when they do dissociate there is like a level where like you actually can't re-engage with your reality until you're fucking ready it's like how i always talk with friends who have been certain things are like should i get into therapy i'm like when you're ready not because i'm saying like you really need it of course you know you need it but when are you ready to actually accept it instead of everyone shoving you in the door go to rehab go get help no no when do you know you're ready everyone has a different threshold everyone needs to go at a different pace but the judgment around people that aren't ready i think we need

to have some fucking grace because it is not that fucking linear and simple it's just not it's not and people are just fucking assholes about it i'm curious like when you look back at that time in your life as fun as it was did you have any like self-sabotaging tendencies back then at all well the only you know obviously uh drugs and alcohol put you in situations uh that uh could be highly dangerous um and i was in those situations really mostly aside from the drugs that was with people that I was attracted to. And trying to relive the situation with my father. And I guess, really, with my mother, too. Trying to find a situation that would feed my soul.

I was looking for soul food and I was looking for a way to fill that void when ultimately that void had to be filled by me. You talk about how you for a while were like quite uncomfortable with the idea of being wanted, being desired. What types of things were you doing to avoid being seen sexually? Oh, listen, I didn't have to do anything to not be seen sexually. Here's the thing. You know, I've always been an oddball. I don't fit into anyone's description of what sexual, in the sexual hierarchy, right? The sexual hierarchy is, oh, he's a daddy. Oh, you're a twink. You're, and there's a whole list of those things. I never fit into any of those things until the first time I got into drag.

People, men or straight men went, oh, you're that. And when and it scared me, it shocked me because I'd never experienced that kind of what's the uh where you're being objectified object objectification i've never experienced that before because i never fit into the sexual hierarchy of what so when i got into drag just as a fluke uh my band was doing this thing and we'd gotten okay i couldn't believe the attention that I got. And I wasn't doing high glam drag. I was doing, I didn't shave my legs, my hairy chest. You know, I smeared lipstick and just,

it was like punk rock, you know, drag. But I noticed a difference in the energy I was getting. Let's talk about George because it almost made me tear up when you teared up at the very beginning of this interview. You just mentioned his name and you got teary eyed. And I don't know, like, what comes up for you when you even just saying he's lovely. He's a lovely person. He can be he's grumpy. He's he's angry.

He's all of those things. But he's lovely. He really is. He's a lovely person. And I like him more than anybody else. I mean, I think that's great, too, because you obviously love being alone. So someone who loves being alone so much, I'm very similar. I sit here and I perform all day and I need to get the fuck home. Don't fucking talk to me. Don't look at me. And my fiance just knows, like, let her be alone.

But I do appreciate his company, which makes me know, oh, I actually fucking like him. I actually like you. What was it about him when you met him that you remember being like, this man is different other than him pursuing you? Well, it was the fact that he was kind and that I trusted him. I trusted him with my feelings. Because, you know, growing up in between two warring factors, my parents were so obsessed with their own psychodramas that it wasn't a safe place for me to feel nurtured. You mentioned that my father's weekends with my sister and I, he was meant to pick us up that morning. And we'd sit on the porch and wait for him all day. And when I mean,

when I say all day, I mean, sitting on that porch all day, he would never show up waiting for him. And we'd say, Rozzy and I would say, next car is going to be daddy. Next car is going to be daddy. We do that all day long. And so I didn't trust my parents with my feelings. I would sort of mother my mother with joy and bring her up and all that kind of stuff. So when I met George, I could tell from the moment I met him that he was lovely and kind. And I could trust him with my feelings, that he wouldn't hurt my feelings. He has never hurt my feelings. Never. And my mother, when I was, my mother said to me, Ru, you're too goddamn sensitive. I was five years old at the time.

Five. She said, she also said, Ru, you reminisce too much. And I was five. I have five years of reminiscing. But, you know know it was insight into her because years later as an adult I learned that she was actually trying to warn me to not do what she did and I it was very telling about her that she was too sensitive and that she reminisced too much. Interesting. So, and that didn't occur to me. I only got that probably 10 years ago where I went, oh, that's what that was. So anyway, George was so open and not secretive.

He was just open. In fact, I tell this story at one point when we first started dating, he asked me, Hey, can I floss your teeth? Fuck no, you can't floss my teeth. What? I never heard of it. Why? Why did he want to floss your teeth? Because he wanted to be that intimate with me. He was, it was, you you know and i never forgot that because it just it that someone would want what but now when you look back on and saying that like how does that make you feel when you reflect on him saying that to you it makes me feel like he wanted to be not only be inside me but he wanted to be a part of me that that that level of intimacy i had never experienced before and uh and it it allowed it it was a signal to

the child who lives inside of me that it's okay you can relax with him you can relax with him he's not going anywhere in fact we split up at when we got sober together we split up still couldn't shake him couldn't uh we'd still called three times a day and uh ultimately we did and get back together again and uh you, eventually got married. I want to go through that too, because it's a very breaking up with someone that you then end up with is rare. I feel like it, it takes a really special bond, but just going back to what you just said, it's so, it's so inspiring to see like the trauma you went through and the partners

you would choose that were replicating just what you watch with your mother and father then finding george it's interesting to see like even the way you just spoke like you got calmer it got more still you could be yourself like in what ways once you started to engage in a healthy relationship how long did it take you to actually trust and be yourself because i'm sure there are people listening to like rue i fucking hope to god one day get to where you're at like how long did it actually take once you met him to be like trust don't bring up my old shit like don't put on him what i've done in other relationships like that's a lot of fucking work yeah no and don't trust me i you know i the the beast still came out you know, in our relationship and my distrust.

But soon enough, you know, he would put me at ease. And, you know, it takes time. And, you know, even the time that we were apart, we both realized that there's no one I like more. And the chances of me meeting someone who I felt that comfortable with and that much myself with is very rare, very rare. You know, when we're young, we think, oh, I've got all the choices in the world. And when you look back, I'm 63,

you look back and you go, there were very few few situations where uh where people had their had all their shit together not shit together you know bank accounts and all that kind of stuff i'm not talking about that but knew enough about themselves to not hurt you and and project their own hurt out at you, you know, which is, I think what, uh, my parents, my parents did and, uh, you know, and I can forgive them now. There's a book called, um, Toxic Parents that really helped me a lot by Dr. Susan Forward that really walks, walked me through the steps of, of overcoming the trauma of my parents. I think it's also incredible because sometimes like we run away from things that make us feel good depending on again our trauma of like

this can't be this good and I think with George it's so clear that like although you were both going through things which I do want to talk about with addiction like you knew at the core how you felt around this human being and that is something that lasts forever how someone makes you feel you never shake that and you did break up can we talk about that just a little bit of like how did you decide because it was mainly you right that did decide like we need to put this on pause well it was it was mutual what happened was uh uh we had this condo in uh florida in miami that george was redoing and i learned that he had been addicted to crystal meth, which is the devil. So I put him into rehab and then brought him to a 12-step program. And I went with him to support him in this 12-step program, only to realize this was for me. I need this. And I realized too that I had been living my fame and fortune through George,

vicariously through George. So I realized that if I am living through him and he's in this much trouble, that's how much trouble I'm in. You were living your fame through George. What do you mean by that? Well, at five, when I had dissociated and separated, became a camera on a jib, I realized I had not come back into my body because it was not safe. It didn't feel comfortable for me to feel my feelings firsthand. Got it. I could feel my feelings through him. You know, we'd be flying to Dusseldorf on Elton John's private jet and he'd be like, oh my God, this is great. So I'd be happy because it informed me, this is great. This is great. But I could not feel my feelings firsthand.

Right. You're like looking for the outside validation of like, what is going on here? Like, oh, this is great. Great. This is great. Sure. For sure, George. What like, interesting.

Yes. And it wasn't until I got sober that I was able to bring my feelings and my camera in through my own eyes. But when you looked at George and you recognized he was addicted to crystal meth, that is also when you said, well, I also have an addiction problem. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I'd always used. I started using when I was 10 years old.

I started smoking weed when I was 10 years old. Listen, Alex, it was a different time. I'm not judging. It was San Diego, California. It's a different thing. It's not like the way people think of it today. Do you remember when you tried your first hard drug? Yes. I was probably 13. And back then there was something called Red Devils.

And I took a Red Devil pill. I don't know where I got it. I don't know. But what was it like? What is the facts? I don't know if i don't remember if it was an upper or a downer i really do not remember but i do remember it was around that time but i was i wasn't uh afraid of drugs i never i never shot up or anything but uh you know but also the big the big thing was that i never had any money. So I was at the mercy of whoever I was around. Right. You know. And then in my 20s, this is, I shouldn't say this, but I'm going to.

In my 20s, every, I dropped acid every weekend throughout my 20s. Every weekend, like four hits of acid every weekend have you ever dropped acid i have never done it what does it feel like well i'll tell you okay um it's well we're gonna be listen you're an adult like don't do acid yeah yeah whatever yeah it's fucking incredible it's incredible because it was the it was had that this world is an before I dropped acid so when I dropped acid it was like yes this is exactly and the people who freak out and I you know I used to you know drop and some people would freak out you know that means you were like oh my god those are the people who it never occurred to

them that this is an illusion from the day I was born them that this is an illusion. From the day I was born, I thought, this is an illusion. So the minute you dropped acid, you were like, damn right. Yeah. Here we go. It lifts the veil of the illusion, the fantasy that we collectively agree to in our lives. Did you, like when you got so famous and you're in New York and people know who you are, like, were you at all ever paranoid that people were going to be like RuPaul is like fucked up or there's something you know what I mean? I do. I was downtown famous in my 20s. But I didn't get

world famous until I was 3232. And I had stopped doing chemicals. I just, I was just smoking weed then. And then in my late thirties, uh, as doing a little bit of Coke, a little bit too much Coke, uh, but really in private with friends. But so I would never be, I would be stoned i was always stoned uh from you know uh i was awakened baker i'm curious like you're so famous and how does that make you feel like you know it's um you know it doesn't feel any different from when i was five years old and the kids in the neighborhood said oh you're a sissy they they I was always pointed out I was always singled out and said huh you're something you're something different uh I didn't know the what the connotation I didn't know that was sex it didn't have a sex I thought oh okay

at you know five years old so but the my point is that I always felt singled out that there was something going on with me. And I had to learn to accept that. So does it feel any different from back then? No, it doesn't. It feels like I have a purpose that I came here to do and it's part of it. Because I just am curious because knowing that a lot of performers I think are introverts that become extroverts on stage when they're performing like I know a lot of musicians that are like oh my god bitch when I get on fucking stage it's a complete alter ego like

that's not me I go home and I'm like in my pjs and makeup off and not focused on like that persona but do you ever have moments or have you ever had a moment in your career where you've resented the persona you've built no no because i i take that shit off it that's that's it's a a part of me but it's not it's not who i i am and thankfully you know you know drag is is so brilliant because it's like a it's like a wink nudge, nudge at the facade that we were talking about. You know, that being on tripping breaks through that. Drag is an extension of that wink, wink, nudge, nudge. And so it's not really to be taken seriously.

It's paint, powder. But I never once thought that's who i am right yeah it's supposed to be fun you're supposed to enjoy it absolutely people take shit too fucking serious they take stuff too seriously read into it too much like it's not that deep it's not that deep it's really not you know i want to circle back just to conclude that conversation about george like the book kind of ends like you're not really together. Yeah. And I thought that was such an interesting stylistic choice of like, why, how did you decide to end it like that? Because it was the real, the death of my old self. And this has been the rebirth of my life. This, this is a whole other book, this part, you know, in this business,

if you get seven years in this business, you've done great, great. But for me to have the opportunity to have another bite of the apple, uh, because I got my shit together. Amazing. So that's a whole other story. So, you know, ending it, ending it at my getting sober was, felt like the natural place. And I feel like from what I've read and looked up, like you and George are pretty like notoriously private people together with your relationship. Like how did you decide and did you talk to him about that you were going to write about these like pretty intimate details of your lives uh he doesn't give a shit it's like bitch just go just write no but uh they were you know going on this book tour and the people were saying hey um we've got some seats set aside for george uh do you want he doesn't want to go to that. He doesn't care about that.

Stop. I love it. He doesn't know who any pop stars are. He doesn't... He doesn't care. He don't care. So refreshing, though.

He does not care. But that must be nice for your life. Oh, yeah. Right? To come home to someone that's literally like, I don't care.

Yeah. No, he doesn't give a shit about this stuff. You're like, babe, guess what I did today? He's like, I care about what you did, but I don't actually care

who was in the room. You're like, Beyonce was there. He's like,'s like huh no he doesn't know who beyonce is he knows who she is he would care let's see um who would he care about uh he loves aretha franklin of course she's dead now yes she can't walk in the room but actually he went with me i thank God he was with me. In 1995, he went with me to Detroit. I performed at Aretha Franklin's birthday party. And we were in there and her assistant came in with the check for me that she had written for my payment. This is before I went on stage. And the check was written out to Ruth Paul, signed Aretha Franklin, Ruth Paul. And of course, I out to Ruth Paul. Signed Aretha Franklin, Ruth Paul.

And of course, I couldn't keep it. I wanted to keep it. But thank God George was there with me so he could see it. So that it wasn't, I didn't dream this up. It's really real. They took the check back and wrote it out to Ruth Paul. But, um. Oh my God.

But so he met her. Yes. So he hasn't been stunned since 1995. It's like, fuck. George hasn't lived since 1995. He hasn't felt something. I know. I'm trying to think who he would be starstruck by. He wouldn't be starstruck by anything.

He, you know, this sounds weird. Like I'm trying to gain him points, but he is more starstruck by animals. And he knows the name of every flower animals and he knows the name of every flower and he knows the name of every animal like what they what they are he knows the breed of every dog so he uh and and you know he children gravitate toward he's that person why do we give a fuck about celebrities anymore i want to know dogs animals the flowers the insects let's go, George. Well, don't get me wrong.

He's got his faults. He's got his faults. You mentioned drag, and it's just just it is so incredible to have a show on its 16th season that's kind of unheard of like there's very few shows in the world that like go that long do you remember the beginning days i do like what does it make you think to like, look at this empire that you've built? Like, you just must be so proud. I am very proud. I'm most most proud of the contestants who have come through there who are so lovely and so courageous to allow their stories to be told and to share those stories of courage with people around the world. What do you think is the biggest misconception about drag? Oh, I don't know. You know, I stopped trying to figure out what people think or try to make, put any credence on what other people think. People are, are crazy.

Are weird. Yeah. I remember you said that in the beginning of this interview and I'm like, that feels like that's the episode title. People are weird. Well, you know, when, when you free yourself from that when you know my mother said if they ain't paying your bills pay them bitches no mind or you know what other people think of me is none of my business when you free yourself of that it leaves so much room for your own frequency to to resonate and and transmit through you. Because that kind of thinking of what other people think of you takes up so much space. It's exhausting.

It's exhausting. We don't have time. There's no time. And you know, when I hit 30, I realized the biggest lesson I got when I turned 30 was I don't have to like everyone and everyone doesn't have to like me.

Amen. Like we're so fucked. Some people are so pressed being like they don't understand. They don't like who fucking cares. Do you know you? Do you understand you? Does your family, friends or whoever the fuck you give a shit about know you? Done.

There you go. You're going to exhaust yourself. You're not even going to know who you are by the end if you're trying to appease every fucking person, especially with the internet you got bitches in fucking kansas saying you're a fucking loser who cares yeah yeah yeah and if you had x-ray eyes to see where that bitch in kansas was that bitch is in a basement uh with a big with internet but in a basement nonetheless they've got their mother's basement their mother's basement the mother's wi-fi and they're in keyword warrior like you're a fucking loser shut up bitch in kansas god we're done with

you fuck can't take these bitches um okay you write in your book you're born naked and the rest is drag what do you mean by that so you you are born naked. So that concept allows you to create whatever life you want. You are a co-creator with whatever the source is. I mean, some people say God, some people say whatever. Whatever you choose to be the source, you are a co-creator with that. That's a lot of responsibility. It is a lot. But it's also, it is exciting if you look at it in the right way. Like we do have, for the most part, autonomy over ourselves. Yeah. Sort of.

Sort of, yeah. I don't need to get into the laws going right now. Fuck yourselves. But you know, it is exciting to know you can control yourself. And I think sometimes we get a little in the clouds and we start to look around us too much where it's like, why are you trying to be like that person, that person, that person? Why are you trying to people? What do you want? Yeah.

And I don't think we ask ourselves that enough because I don't think we're taught it. Like you said it to be in the middle of this interview. You were like, my mom told me like, stop being emotional, ruin, stop doing this. But it's all again, projection from your mother. It's like, well, maybe the most beautiful part of you is that you're emotional. Maybe you should lean into that. What do you want? And I think we can take from this, especially just like, live the way that you want to live and block out as much noise as you possibly can. It's hard, but when you do it, there is some peace and quiet that you can find within yourself. It is hard. And of course, all roads lead to, are you willing to

be in this moment with yourself, which is a tall order because the first thing you would recognize if you did that, it was how much pain you're in. So again, you have to walk through that fire, which is painful to get to your your true self because a lot of us we sweep the emotions in my case i dissociate it with myself we sweep a lot of our feelings under the rug uh i did that with drugs and alcohol until i had to pay the bill and when you look at the bill you're like what fuck it's big and long. Wait, who ordered the Pellegrino? What does the Pellegrino stand for in your life, Rue? What does it symbolize?

You know, and so you have to, you literally have to go through all of the stuff that you put away before you can move forward. So that's why most people don't accept the challenge of creating the life they were meant to have. Most people go with plan A or plan B. And a lot of times I think because plan A or plan B doesn't really fit your needs, you will use drugs and alcohol to numb the pain. That's what we're all, I mean, we're a culture of addicts. We're all addicted to something. But imagine if we were taught how to process those feelings. I use drugs and alcohols to process, to deal with feelings I didn't know how to process

until eventually I did learn how to process those feelings. Imagine a world, a culture of people who could do that. When we're able to do that, I think the amount of like peace and unity that will come from all different walks of life and all different backgrounds, we're so fucking far from that. But you're so right. It's like, we're not taught to process. So we're angry. Yeah. And we're miserable. And we're anxious. And we're insecure and we are lost. And I appreciate you coming on today and just talking through this because I do, I think it's so inspiring for people listening. The way you talk about your memoir being almost like this other part of you that now is put to bed and

there's now a complete new book basically that's being created right now as you're sitting here and the way you're living your life. I think we need to start to look at ourselves that way of like, you can have been many different people in your life and it doesn't define you. It's part of you. But I think every new chapter is on you to decide how it's going to be written. So I hope this was fun. It was fun. Did it get better? No, it's actually, it was a lot of fun. And I love what you're saying there, because what the truth is, it's about the crucifixion and the resurrection. And once you're able to be reborn into your higher self, that's when the party really begins. And that's why I feel like this, the party, for me,

when I got sober, really started. And I needed to put that first part to bed. And that's what the House of Hidden Meanings is about. It's incredible. Everyone, please go read it. And congratulations to you because it is so cool to see. I love that you did a memoir where it stops at 1999 basically something like 2000 yeah and and now it's like what's next love it rupaul thank you so much for coming and it truly was a pleasure thank you thank you Bye.