Call Her Daddy - Sarah J Maas: The Wait Is Over

Episode Date: March 5, 2026

Join Alex in the studio for an interview with Sarah J. Maas! SJM shares the exclusive announcement that new ACOTAR books are coming, answers the Internet’s burning questions, discusses her complicated female characters, and opens up about how she worked through her darkest moments. Enjoy! Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

What is up, Daddy Gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper, with Call Her Daddy. Sarah J. Mass, welcome to Call Her Daddy. Oh, thank you. I'm so excited to be here. This is like, I have never had more people asking me. Okay, so, like, if I buy my own plane ticket, could I just fly in and, like, sit in the corner and just, like, maybe meet her and I'm like, stop it, guys?

No. Never had more people. Same. Same with you, my friends who, like, don't give a shit, like, what I do. do for a living. Suddenly, they hear I'm coming here and they're like, oh, like, I could be your assistant for the day. And like, have I told you how much I love you? And I'm like, I wish you guys could come. But at the same time, no. No. We're like merging our two worlds. You've made me cool to my friends who usually only see me in my like ugly casual clothes. That's our dress code, ugly casual.

I am honored that you're here. I also want to give everyone watching the, I just want to say, spoilers could happen in this episode if you haven't read all of the series. So I would just beware. Don't come from you on social media if we talk about things that you're like, what do you mean? Like, just prepare yourself. You guys have had plenty of time to read. Plenty of time.

Very true. Okay. You are the best selling author of Throne of Glass, Crescent City, and the Akatar series. You have broken publishing records. You have sold over 75 million copies of your book. and I am such a huge fan and I'm so excited to sit down with you today. Thank you. Welcome to Los Angeles. Thank you. What are you in L.A. for? I'm only here to be with you. You're the only reason that I would actually come to Los Angeles. Do you come here often? You're like, no. No. We don't. We don't. We

used to live here. So of course, like, I don't like I like I like L.A. But like, I mean, you're just here for this. Or I'm here just for you. I'm honored. Just for you, Alex. I am honored. Only for you would I drag myself across the continent to Los Angeles. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. If you are on a plane, can you ever work on a draft or it's like way too risky? I'm on deadline right now, actually, working on something.

Okay. But I had to work. I had to work. And then the worst thing was is that like my husband, who was supposed to be helping with the kids just takes a nap. So you're writing and you're holding children. And the kids are like, mommy, like can you get me in new sparkling water? like mommy my iPad turned off and like Josh is just there like snoring the dogs like sleeping

next to him and I'm like what what is this what I was about to throw a bucket of water you're like this is why my fans are mad at me guys yeah I need to lock in and yeah yes I was like there is like we need to like get this go there's no time for naps for spouse naps anymore yeah I feel like you're also known for your writing playlists okay yeah what have you been currently listening to for inspiration. Weirdly, like weirdly enough, like I heard the soundtrack to that, the Rob Pattinson, like the Batman thing. And like there was like certain like pieces in that that just like spoke to me. And like, yeah, so that was like kind of like the current thing. But then like, I mean, it's not really like inspiration, but like K-pop demon hunters, I'm still playing that nonstop in

my house. And like even my seven year old son has been like, okay, like we're kind of over that. And I'm like, we are never over this movie. We are never over the soundtrack. Wait, that's when you know you've lost it where your kids are like, can we stop mom? And you're like, no. I know. I'm like pre-gaming in the shower, like listening to the golden. Like, babe.

We need to calm down. Yes. No, like I bought the vinyl record. Oh, you're in it, Sarah. Yeah. And I play it. When my kids are at school, I put it on. And I play it on repeat to the point where my housekeeper thinks I'm having like a mental breakdown.

Yeah. And the kids aren't there. So you really know you're in love. No. Look, it's my jam. Okay, can you tell us, like, what is your ideal writing setup? I'm not, like, a fancy writer. Like, I don't write publicly.

Like, I don't want to be in a cafe because, like, I, like, get very into my stuff. So, like, I'll be crying. Like, to feel what my characters feel. Like, I have to, like, emotionally connect with them. So if it's, like, a devastating scene or just, like, a very emotional scene, like, I will be sobbing. Oh, my God. Yeah. Like my husband has like walked in to like my bedroom where I actually write in my bedroom and he's like seen me just like weeping. And he just like quietly closes the door. He's like we're not like a normal husband. Be like, babe, are you okay? And he's like got it. We're on like. He hears me like blasting like my like, you know, classical music movie scores and I'm weeping, sobbing like typing as fast as I can. And he's like, okay. Yeah. So the bedroom. Yeah. So like I just have a desk in my bedroom. Like I don't know. Like they say don't work in your like where you sleep. But like I don't know. It's like a cozy happy space. And like I don't know. It's like a cozy happy space.

for me. Like, when I'm in an office, I'm just kind of like, I don't know. It's not like my vibe. Yeah. Like it used, I used to want to have like my own office, but now I just like I like to have my own little like tiny cozy space. And like I keep a very tidy desk. But it's like covered with like crystals and like ridiculous things like like Laboo. I have a Labuoboo sitting and like a little like sunchair with like sunglasses on. Like he's it's it's it is. It is good. I like I only things that bring me joy. That's what I put. on my desk, but I keep it very tidy. But then, of course, I have, like, three coasters on my desk for, like, one for, like, a latte and one for a Diet Coke. And they always need to be, like, constantly filled. That's the rotation. And then, like, space for Cheetos, which is the worst possible food to eat when you, right? You're like, I know. Are you, like a puffy or a crunchy? I'm the flaming hot. I've never had one. I've never had one. I'm scared. I'm scary that I'm And I like, my husband's always like, why?

And I'm like, I like it to burn. Do you like spicy things in general? Yeah, I do. Okay. I've never had one. Now I kind of want to try one. You need to try one and you need to ask, tell me what it was like. But like, is it like, like, it's a little painful, but like I, like, I like,

I'm selling this. But it's like good. Like I like the burn. Like it keeps, I when I'm editing my show, I'm like eating them and I love the little thin ones and I just like kind of take it and I'm editing. It's a vibe. I also was curious, like, when, if you do go out in public and you do every. And you do ever see fans.

Like what is the most common thing that people ask you when they run into you? People usually don't like ask me things. It's more like they just want to express like what the books have meant to them. So usually that makes me cry. But I'm also like such a nerd where like if I see someone in public reading my books, like I go up and say hi to them. Because like I want to say thank you to them. Because like all these beautiful like blessings I have in my life, the fact that I can. can, like, do this for a living is because of people reading. So, like, how can I not at least

just, like, go up and be like, I just want to say, like, thank you. But then, like, when I do that, like, they, I think they don't believe me initially. Because, again, normal Sarah, covered in Cheeto dust. Like, I look, like, on well on a daily basis. So they're like, I don't think that's actually her. And then I'm like, no, it's me. Like, look, I've got the tattoo. You're like, like, it is like, like, it is like, like, guys take to read my book. So, like, who is. Yeah. And they Google you. And they like, I think that was her. But then I feel like weird. Like, sometimes like I'll like if I see someone reading like especially the Akitar books and like I'll interrupt them I'm like what like what part are you reading right now like and is that like your mom

like walking in on you like when you're like watching porn or something where I'm like is is that like a weird thing I've no one's ever told me that like I've never like it is I cannot imagine if I was reading and I looked up and it was you I've oh it would it be weird for you if I was it would make it it 10 times better if it was like a super smuddy wouldn't care because you wrote it makes me know but like it wouldn't like be like weird for like no i feel like i've walked into moments where someone was listening to one of my episodes that was like a more sexual one and they're like i'm listening to you right now and i do the same thing where i'm like which one and then it's like a bonding moment and it's between the girlies yes yeah okay um there are obviously so many celebrities who absolutely love you and your

books which celebrity fan has left you the most starstruck i mean i respect like so many of these like women especially. So like Margo Robbie's like become like Margo's become like Margo's become like one of my friends and like I love so like meeting her. I just like you know she was coming off the heels of like Barbie when we first met. And I just like it was amazing when she and I like first met up like we were at like a coffee shop in New York. And it was just it was really, really moving and inspiring to see how many young women came up to her like not for a picture, not for anything, just to say thank you for Barbie and what that meant to me. And like I loved. And like, that's kind of like the fan interactions that I have are usually, like, people

saying things like that. And so, like, it was really cool to like just, like, I thought it was like the impact that Margo has had on like, like, she's just, I love her. When I, like, describe her to people, I'm like, she's as beautiful on the outside as she is on the inside and like so, so smart and like, it's an overwhelming combination. It is. But she's a marvelous person. Speaking of Margo, people are obviously dying to know.

What is going on with this potential Akitar TV series? Can you give us any update? like what do you think is happening? So I have the rights back to everything now and getting the rights back to all my things has been a big part of my journey in recent years that like maybe at some point soon I will like talk more about. But like right now my focus is on books and like it's been a little while since like you guys have had something. So like I'm focusing on like that. But like I look at any TV movie adaptation as kind of like another facet of like the worlds that I've created. And it's something that I want to be in charge of.

Like I want to be figuring out like I want to be learning everything that I can. I'm like a type A like control freak a little bit. But like I want to like I want to know like everything about how it gets made not because of that control. It's because I love movies. I love TV. Like I want to like be a part of that. and I want to see everything adapted the way I envision it and the way like I know fans want it. And like I don't ever want to hear like, oh, we need to change this to appeal to like XYZ demographic.

I'm like, no, that's not how you make art. That's not how I create my stories. So like when I do it, like it's going to be like me. And I will like dedicate like everything that I have to like making it right. But like it will be like I will be in there like, you know, looking at like all the design, but also like what does it sound like? because music plays such a big part. So, like, I'm not just going to, like, the music is going to have to be, like, a huge project for me. You'll have to have, understandably, your hands on every single part of it because it's in your brain.

Like, you created this world. So to give it over to anyone else would be a disservice. No, like, I view it as, like, my legacy in a way where I'm, like, I put my books out into the world. That's, like, one way that the fans are, like, interacting and seeing these characters. But, like, the physical version of that, like, needs to be a way. It can't just be like someone's take on that. I'm like, no, this is. It's, yeah, it's yours. Have you seen the fans who have created like the AI world of like the spring court? Oh my God. It's no, I have not. I need to show you after. Not. I, I, is so incredible. And I'll be on TikTok

watching. And I'm like, honestly, they made resand look like, I'm like, how are you going to actually find a normal human being that looks like this? I know. I sometimes like I, I, that's part of my problem. Casting. I don't, yeah. And that's, I'm not going to like settle for someone because I'm like being pushed. I'm like, I need to find the perfect person and take however long it takes to find them. I have yet to find my perfect Reese. I don't really have like anyone.

That's the thing. I have not found anyone. So I'm like, I can't like be forced to like pick someone. It's going to happen when it's going to happen. It needs to be organic. It needs to be like something that comes from me. Yes. And it's like something that I'm proud of, you know.

Okay. Let's go back. Because to anyone who isn't familiar with your full story. So your relationship with writing kind of started as a teenager. But there was a moment in seventh grade where you stopped reading because it wasn't cool anymore. What was it that made you feel that way? Okay. First of all, we read the most boring fucking books.

And I was a big reader. Like, I loved reading as a kid. I loved fairy tales. I loved all of that. Like all the babysitters club, the boxcar children, but we weren't reading that in school. And like, yes, we were exposed to like great writing, but it was so boring for me to be like quite honest, like just at that age that like I was like, I'm done. I'm done with it.

And what were you like in middle school? I was cool. I was a cool. I like, I've like been through eras of my life. I'm turning 40 like very soon and I'm having like a big girl's weekend. Or it's actually more like a week. I got a week out of everyone in the Bahamas. And the theme is Sarah's eras.

Okay. Can you take us through those eras? So this is because there have been so many versions of me. So middle school, Sarah was like all into like nails, makeup, like backstreet boys versus NSYN versus spice girls. I was spice girls all the way. Obviously. Obviously.

Always. But then I kind of had like this secret. life in middle school where like every day I would like run home from school like I would chat with my friends and then like bolt down the streets of New York City to get home in time to watch Sailor Moon on like Cartoon Network every afternoon. Oh my God. And so like popular girl was a like anime freak like obsessed with like Sailor Moon like all this anime and then like around seventh grade I also got into like reading fantasy. Like I figured out like okay like there are books. that I do like to read that are like fairy tales and like, but for like grownups in a way.

So like fantasy became a whole thing. So I was like hanging out my friends go into the bar and bot mitzvahs, like dirty dancing on the floor and then like going home and like taping episodes of Sailor Moon on my VHS recorder. So it all kind of started in middle school where you were like interesting. I don't like the books in school, but I like these books that I found in this like fantasy world. Yes. And you started to kind of have an appetite for it. Yes. And then like, Around like, around the same time, I realized, like, I didn't just want to read it. Like, I wanted to write that kind of thing and come up with my own, like, adventures. Well, that's what's so crazy is when I was researching.

I'm like, you started writing Throne of Glass at 16 years old. Okay. So, Throne of, so when I started writing Throne of Glass, I was in my emo, Lord of the Rings phase, Sarah. Legalis. I still have my cardboard cut out of Legolas. And, like, Josh is weirdly threatened by him. He doesn't like to see him because there's all these like stains around Legos and Legolas's mouth from like where like I used to like make out with him. Like Sarah, this is.

It's the worst and the best thing because I didn't go on a single date in high school. Legalis was my boyfriend. My seven year old, I told my seven year old son that once when he was younger and he literally believes me to the point where we were watching the Lord of the Rings once. And he's like, hey, mom, look, it's your boyfriend. You're like, yeah, that is. Yeah, and I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, can you believe I left him for daddy? So sad. And he's like, oh, mom, to the point where like even now, like, again, I don't really get starstruck.

But like, even now, if I saw Orlando Bloom, I would piss my pants, shit my pants, vomit on myself, like ovulate. Like, everything would happen all at once. I wouldn't, like, I would cry. I don't know. Every bodily fluid would just come spraying out of me. I would not be okay. Okay, but this all makes sense, though, Sarah. Because, like, I was so curious, I'm like, 16 years old.

You start writing Throne of Glass. And I read, I know that you, like, kind of trashed eventually and rewrote the whole thing. But still, to be 16 years old and have the wherewithal to create such a large, incredible world in your head and be able to pen to paper. That is really incredible. Well, like, so middle school, Sarah was like, cool, had a lot of friends. High school. I went to a different high school where I had to start all. over again and like high school Sarah didn't have many friends and like was not very happy hence

the emo Sarah like I mean full on like studded belt the like plastic bands like and like I was that kid that like had my headphones on like in the hall of school like probably like very like just feeling like a fish out of water there because like I went to a very like posh Upper East Side high school and like I was not like a lot of the other kids. And so with my books and stuff, like they, I knew I wanted to write. I got like the idea for thrown a glass and I wanted to write that as an actual story. But then the timing of it was like just perfect where like I was in a place in my life where like I just needed like an escape from school and life sometimes and like closing my door to my bedroom and like turning on like my like, I was like,

of those square iMac computers. Like I was like, I used like floppy disks for the first few drafts of Throneau Glass. But like that was like an escape for me. That was, it was like if things weren't going well at school or like at home or just like in general. But it's so beautiful too to hear you say that like this was such a passion of yours. And then obviously you were able to turn that passion into your livelihood and your purpose.

And then at 26, you finally publish and come out with Throne of Glass. Almost 10 years after you came up with the idea, which I think like it's like a really hard industry to get into, obviously, anything in publishing. It's like it's close to impossible sometimes to get your first book published. Did any of your family or friends try to sway you and be like, Sarah, I don't know if this is the easiest path to go down for a career? I got into a number of fights with my parents who, I say this quite lovingly, but my parents are like New York lawyers. My mom was a judge. Like, they're intellectual, again lovingly, snobs. They, you know, read the New York Times front to back every day.

And my dad still insists on reading a physical newspaper. So my parents are. So I'm very different. Whereas like I'm like, page six, baby. I'm like, tell me a lot, gas. Like, I need to know everything. And so, like, my parents are like, oh, did you read this analysis of so and so? I'm like, no, but did you see what she was wearing last night?

And they're like, what is this? But so I was always like this changeling alien child who was like into the fantasy stuff. And my parents were great in that they always gave me an unlimited budget like four books. They gave me the space to write. Like, you know, they let me just go lock myself in my room for hours and work. But like once like college was kind of like wrapping up like they're like so what are you going to do? And I'm like I'm going to be a writer. And they're like, well, most people, one, can't get a book deal.

And like my parents had friends who like, like, you know, were either like lawyers in the literary world or like literary agents. And they're like it's impossible. Like you're not going to get it. Like fantasy wasn't even like fantasy comes in cycles where like sometimes it's huge and then it quiets down. So like we were in like a dystopia phase. Like it was like the hunger. was kind of like starting to become like insane around then. So my parents were like like you're publishing this like you want to publish this epic fantasy

thing like and who's paying for this? Where are you and you want to go move out with your boyfriend to Los Angeles and get a car and like all like you need to. So I actually considered like doing like an MFA thing just to like buy myself more time. But I did like I went to one like interview with like a director of an MFA program. and when she heard that I write fantasy, she literally went like that, like an actual like sound. And you were like, bye. Yeah, I was like, we're done here.

I was like, I'll sign a copy of my book for you one day. And I just, I walked out and I was like, I'm not doing that. I don't need anybody to teach me what I've taught myself. Like, I was a creative writing major in college, but like it was, it was a very fun major to have, but it was useless for me because a lot of the classes were, all the classes were geared towards writing short stories, poetry. And so like senior thesis time came around. And I was like, I was like, I want to write a book. Like, and I also like want you to spend some time in our like seminar talking about like, how do you get published? Like how do you get an agent? How do you get

published? And like it was like, it wasn't even a concept. I was like, I was the first person who would ever ask that. And I was like, I don't want to write short story. I tried to argue with my advisor that I didn't have to take poetry because I would never write a word of poetry in my life. I was like, I can swear to you here and now. I'm writing fantasy books. I was, like, in the office, like, 21 years old. I was like, I am writing fantasy books, and I will never fucking write a poem. So exempt me from this class.

And he was like, no, you have to take it. You have to take it. And, like, I'm terrible. It's like mathematical component to poetry, like the meter and the rhythm and all that stuff. That, like, Josh had to help. Josh was a math major, and he had to help me with my homework where you had to, like, diagram out. And I was like, I don't understand.

We need to talk about. these three series. So when I was talking to my friends about it, I think something that is quite literally the most mind-blowing thing that you have been able to do and a lot of people are so perplexed by how you've done it is all of your series converge in somewhere or another. But that must take years of planning. So can you try to explain to me how you have been able to have the foresight that all three of these giant series somehow overlap. I mean, I don't actually know how I have the brain capacity for this because, like, on a daily basis, I'm, like, barely functioning.

But I don't, I mean, like, because I started writing so young, I was able to, like, figure out these worlds, these characters. And when I was trying to get published initially, like, I had a lot of, lot of downtime, like, waiting for, like, agents to respond, publishers to respond. And, like, writing's the thing that I love the most. So, like, I was always writing. So, like, during that waiting time when I was trying to get thrown a glass published, Akatar came out of me. The first two books of Akitaur, like, poured out of me in 2008, 2009, like, around then, like, in, like, a two-month span. The first book is very similar to what came

Madame. I wound up rewriting Missed and Fury. The ultimate, like, direction of it was, of course, the same. But, like, I've been, and then Crescent City was, like, a passion project for many years that I would write, kind of to, this sounds cuckoo crazy, but, like, I would reach the end of a day having, like, edited, like, thrown a glass or Akatar. And, like, I just was, like, done with those worlds. And I wanted to go, like, play. And, like, at the time, like, there was not as much cursing in, like, my earlier book. So I was like, I just want to write, like, fucking shit and dance. And it all the time. And so Crescent City just started as I didn't not have any intention of publishing it and it was just on the side. And then as I was writing that, I was like, oh. And like, so I had all this time very early on in my career, even before my career really took off to like have a vision of what I wanted to do. Do you have like a map in your house to like be like, okay, this world? No. It's all, all in my head. I mean, like I have notebooks where I write things down, but like the overarching vision of it is all here. I wish I could live in your head for a day. That is crazy. All you would hear is just Cheetos and Diet Coke on repeat. And all these worlds bouncing back and form.

Yeah. No. I mean, it's, it's like, it's very strange to have like all of that in your head. Because like I, and it's almost like a separate thing where like I have like two kids now. So like on a daily basis, I'm like, okay, like what am I making them for dinner? That's not like boxed mac and cheese. And then I like I like switch between these modes where suddenly like I'll be able to put that away when they're at school and then like the world's expand again and I'm living in them. It's like a muscle you have to flex when you get to sit back down. Yeah. But then also like I sometimes like go back especially with like the music that's inspired like some some of the scenes and like the books and just like I will listen to the music that inspired those scenes and relive those scenes.

And like sometimes just like cry or just like and I don't even read what's in there. I just like relive that moment of like where clarity where I saw it. And so sometimes in reflecting and going back, I'm able to think like, you know, like that moment really struck like struck me and like stood out to me. Like how can we pull that through in the future? And then like, but then sometimes I'm thinking like books ahead where like I'll write like one little line and be like, ha ha ha, like this will come back. And like that. But then sometimes things line up too in like a really like cosmic psychic way where it I mean I again, I have like crystals all over my desk. So I'm like, am I channeling like something that's happening in like the, like another universe and I'm just like writing it down?

Because it all lines up. Perfectly. Yes. Like sometimes where I like there was something recently where like it lined up. Like I had not planned it. But it was like my subconscious or like some like human wide psychic thing. Like I had tapped into it. It was like, you know, slow pitch over the plate for me to like it was there.

It was there. And I just and like I jumped out of my. seat and like shut my computer and I was like no like we're done here we're done this is like too perfect like this is planned this like I was like some this came from not me and I don't and I don't say that from like an egotist I just literally I'm like this worked out like it was it was it worked out like almost to like a like supernatural level this makes me so happy as a fan because I'm like I was wondering I'm like how does this all go down but now I want to talk about some of your female characters because I genuinely believe in the past I do think that fantasy and

I think everyone knows this. Like fantasy and that world was more dominated by male authors, obviously. And then you came into the game and I think people really gravitate towards your work because of these really strong, independent, complex women that you are creating in these worlds. One of your most beloved female characters in Throne of Glass is Aileen. What did you want to communicate through her evolution? I don't. Aileen came out of me.

Just and like there was no planned evolution. Aileen in some ways her journey mirrored so much of me growing up, growing into, like I poured a lot. Like she's not me in any way. But like there was a journey, like a mirror journey there. And a lot of my books are like and what my characters go through is in some ways like a mirror. into things I've been going through. But like, Aelin from the start just came out of me fully formed. Kind of like Athena springing from Zeus's head.

Like that, and she just was there. And like I almost just let her lead the way. And like my life like paralleled it where I could understand the thing. It sounds like I had no control over her, but I really didn't. And I let her lead me where she needed to go. but also was able to, like, connect with her, like, I don't know. Like, there were just, like, moments in my life where I can, like, look back at those scenes and thrown a glass and remember, like, what it was that inspired that scene and not,

not, like, play-by-play events, but just, like, a feeling. Like, in, like, the, like, The Assassin's Blades, like, novellas, like, there's, like, one of the later ones, like, she's, like, out all night, like, partying and, like, just, like, watches the sunrise and it's, I was, like, that was, like, in college, like, staying out with my friends, like, having an amazing time. at a party and just like that feeling of like you're young and everything's beautiful and like you are immortal and like isn't it amazing to be alive and like here like that went into that and so like those were the thing when I was able to connect with her in those moments like

and so I don't know like and then like her rage and her like her anger I'm like I never got to see women being angry and bitchy the way I often felt like I always felt like everyone like had to be like sweet and nice. And like, I was not those things. I was not any of those things. Like, I was always kind when I tried to be to people. But, like, I had, like, strong feelings about things. Like, I had, like, I could fly off the handle at something. And I wanted to write about a woman that, like, didn't have to be appealing to anyone. And that, like, I did not give a shit if anyone reading it liked her. Like, this was her. Sorry. Like, that was who she was. And, like, take it or leave it better. And, like, I wanted to let her. And, like, I wanted to

let her make bad choices and learn from those choices and grow in the same way that, like, I also wanted her to have, like, different romantic relationships. Like, I don't know, like, any of my, anyone that, like, has just been like, I met this one guy and, like, we're in love and now we're getting married and that's it. Like, no, like, I wanted her to grow with that and take things away from those relationships. And I don't know, she just, like, as I was learning all of that stuff, growing up and, like, you know, Like she was too. Like so there was just a natural mirror.

She was one of the first characters you ever wrote. So it's like to know that there was a mirror there, it makes sense. And I think it's beautiful that you were like, I literally don't care if anyone likes her or doesn't. Like this is who she is, take her her lever. Yeah. I mean, that was the same like Manon and Theron Glass. Like that was like an even more extreme version of it. I was like she's just going to go like with her nails and just like.

She's going to do her thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You said you're drawn to writing women who can't kind of be placed in a definable category, which I love. As a woman yourself in this industry, what box have you felt like people have tried to put you in? Oh. You're like, oh, sweetie, how much time do we have? I feel like I should have a sedative before I like completely explode. I just think in general when a lot of people

hear that I write romantic fantasy, you know, like as much as I love my like steamy, sexy, hot, scenes, like this dismissal now of like smut where I'm like, yeah, I write smut. Like, I love it. But like that's not what like my fans come up to me to talk about. Like they like when they want to come thank me. Like it's like, yes, we giggle and laugh about like the hot scenes, whatever. But like they tell me how they left like their abusive husband after they read a court of Mistin Fury. And like we cry over that. And so like putting me into this box of like she just writes like really sexy stuff. I'm like, no, I love writing that. stuff. I always be proud of it. Like, I mean, granted, like, I was, like, copy editing a scene in

Silver Flames once where it was like when Nesta blows Cassian at, like, the dinner table. And my dad was visiting. And I was like, I had like the printed out pages. And my dad was like, what are you working on there? And I was like, oh my God. I was like, nothing. We're done. I'm not editing this scene anymore. It was the worst fucking thing. Like, dad, please don't read this. No. And like, he insists on it. I'm like, should I rip out pages? for you, but then like the sex, but that's the thing where I'm like, the sex sometimes is tied to the plot, like Silver Flames, for example, like Nesta and Cassie and like they're having like hot sex and like bodily fluids or flying everywhere, but it is like intensely tied to their own

emotional journeys and their own journey as a couple. And so like this dismissal of it, like, it's just like smut, like whatever. I'm like, it's fun. I design it to be entertaining, but it's also moving and like I write like what I consider to be like cool shit that like means something to me. I love that you just clarified that too because I do believe it is such a double standard obviously with women that like if you at all tap into sexuality or sex in any realm, everything else that you also are contributing in that category is completely dismissed because people are like, oh, you're just writing like sex shit and you're like, wait, no, that's like, what? And so it's so frustrating. But I do believe in a gorgeous way, like if people took the time,

That's also just a testament to people sometimes don't give a shit and they want to misunderstand you. If you take the time to understand these female characters that you're writing, yes, they have been so liberating for so many women. They have helped so many people. And it's been an escape for a lot of women, which you've done an incredible job with. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I just, I mean, I think of it as like when I want to reread books, like I'm not going to like the depressing, boring shit. Like I want to read books that make me happy that have a happy end.

And like if you want to read like those other types of books, fine, like good for you. But for me, like I want things where like I go on a journey. Like I like, like there's hot sex that I can like, you know, dog ear those pages and like read all of that however many times I want. But then also like it brings me joy. And I find that there is a tendency for people to roll their eyes at things that bring joy and bring women joy especially. and it pisses me the fuck off constantly. And like you were saying, like any time like a woman,

she writes something and there's like even a little hint of sex that's not like fade to black or like very like artistically mentioned. It's like suddenly it devalues the work. And it doesn't matter what else is in that book if there is some kind of like hot graphically. And I'm like, I don't understand though because you're writing a thing that is so accurate

to life and sex is a part of life. I was going to say this is one of the, this is the commonality that all of us share in this world is we all have sex. We all deserve pleasure. And so if we continue to go down the path of women shouldn't write about these things or read about these things or talk about these things, then it really is still just a man's game. Yeah, it's very like Victorian almost where I'm like, okay, like you're like getting into the nitty gritty of like, you know, like you're like Midwestern alcohol. Alcoholic. I'm like, what about like the sex? What's going on with that. Like that is a key part of anyone's life. I'm like, you want to have a mirror, like an accurate mirror. And you don't have to have sex, but it's just this idea that like

having it there, again, devalues the work. It's, I find it a little more than frustrating. But then it's also like anything related to women. Like I, like watching like Lord of the Rings or like reading that like as a kid, like all these fantasy books like with all these guys in them. There's like no women. Well, I would think like, okay, like if I was there, like me and Legulus are running through the Merkwood together because I totally marry Legolas in my mind. Obviously, Sarah. Yes, yes. I'll give you that one.

Thank you. Thank you very much. That's my number one fantasy. But like I'm going on an epic fantasy quest in my mind. Like I'm like in Mordor. I get my fucking period. What do I do? And like I want to write about that shit.

I'm like that's like, I mean, it's not only like funny to me, but it's also like this is a reality. It's like our life. Like, I'm like, and so like, in my books, I'm like, I want to write about things that like, you know, the sex, the like, you know. The real stuff. Like, the real stuff. Or I'm like, what if you got your period when you were climbing the slopes of Mount Doom? What would you do? Like, are you free bleeding?

Like, are you like, do you have cramps? Sarah J. Mass is getting the hard hitting facts. I just want to know. Maybe some people don't want to know those things. But I was like, I get such, I do such a deep dive into the world into these characters that I'm thinking of like bathroom breaks. When was their last period? Like all of that. I think it's so obvious though that although there, and we always hear the negatives, there's such clearly an appetite for what you've done. I also love how you talk about the real stuff. Because speaking of the real stuff, obviously, yes,

your books are fiction, but like you are hitting very real honest topics that you can kind of extract what you want to take from each. And I think there was a lot of online. online discourse around Fairo's pregnancy in a court of Silver Flames because I think a lot of people were frustrated, right, that she didn't have control or understanding of what was happening to her body and her partner did, which we'll get to. But can you talk a little bit about why you chose to write her story that way? I love my children. I am fucking obsessed with my kids. I hated being pregnant. I hated it.

It was traumatic for me every step of the way, starting with like when I was first pregnant with my son and I was told by like this asshole of a nurse, like, okay, this is your weight and you can only gain this much weight while you're pregnant. And like as someone who's had like a history with like disordered eating and stuff, like being told like you can, you're only allowed to gain between this much like here and here. Like this is all you can gain. during pregnancy, it took every bit of joy away, where instead of focusing on this beautiful, beautiful baby growing inside of me, I was thinking about the food I was putting in my body.

And then the constant tests and appointments where you're being like, literally like having like probes in you and like, you know, just like it felt very. And like I, I'm like the person where like I have to make myself go to the gynecologist. Even though I love my gynecologist, I'm like, I, And I hate doctors. I hate waiting rooms. I hate all of that. I hate the interruption to my daily life. And so pregnancy was not fun.

And then my son was born in an emergency C-section two weeks late. The people that I knew back then who had had kids were like, oh, like, you don't want to take any of the drugs. Like, you will, like, really hurt, like, the baby. And it's like the opposite. Like, if you're a good mother, like, you won't, like, take the pain medication. And so I was like, I came up with a birth plan. I had a duel. I had all this stuff planned out.

And if that works for you, like, that's fine. But for me, that was my way of trying to, like, control it. And then that day, I'm like, I'm told, no, like, I have to have every medical intervention possible. I have to have an emergency C-section. But, like, worse than that, like, I went into the hospital. And I was told by the doctor who was going to, like, induce. She was first going to induce me. She was like, go have a big meal because you're going to be, like, you know, pushing this baby out all night.

So I get to the hospital after having, like, a big dinner. to repair myself for labor. And then it turns out, like, I need to have an emergency C-section. But the doctor who is there is a man, and he starts yelling at me, saying, why would you eat anything? You can't eat anything. And I was like, your colleague literally told me to go have a big dinner and come here. I did not know I was having an emergency C-section.

I never had surgery of any sort in my life before this point. So, like, for me, even to be in like a hospital gown and a hospital, like, I'm terrified. And then this male, this man I've never met before and is telling me, like, this is what we are doing. And like, you did everything wrong. And he's scolding me. So I'm already terrified. This is my first kid. I don't know what to expect.

And so then they're like, okay, we're taking you back. And I said, can my husband come back for like the epidural for all? Like, I'd never seen the inside of an operating room. And they were like, no. And I was like, can he please come back? I need someone there with me. I've never done this before. And they're like, he's not allowed in there.

and so like they wouldn't let him back so I'm like in the like operating room like sitting on the table waiting for this massive needle and I'm shaking so violently with terror that like and like all the doctors they're like ignored like they did not give a shit it was the intern like the med school intern that like saw me like panic like a girl and she came over and like held my hand through it and I was like whoever you are and like I hope like she probably has no idea that she helped me like that meant so much to me that day that moment of kindness where it was like a fellow young woman being like this woman is terrified and like no one is being nice to her. And so then like the recovery from the C-section was horrible. The guy like sliced me way too high. He was lazy. I'm probably giving like way too many details. No, you're not. This is this is a real shit. He sliced me in a way that was convenient to him but essentially destroyed like the flow and look of my stomach where it never would heal right to the point where we move to a new state eventually. and I got pregnant with my daughter. And, like, I took me a while to even want to have a second kid

because what I went through in the recovery from the C-section, it was so bad. It was not fun for me. And, like, I had to have this emergency C-section, one, like, because, like, my son was two weeks late, but, too, he started going into distress. But, like, he had not dropped. And it was the kind of thing where I sometimes think about this.

Like, if I had been born, like, a hundred years before, I would have died. And so, like, that really stuck with me, this sense of like, I should be dead and my son should be dead from this. And I hope he's listening to this like not freaking out right now. But like I should be like not here. And so like that kind of like has lingered where I'm like without modern science and medicine, like I wouldn't be here. But then when I had my my daughter, I had an amazing gynecologist here in LA actually. And she in our first appointment when we met each other, she took one look at what this man had done to me. And, and, and she took one look at what this man had done to me. And she had to walk out of the room.

And she was like, I never would have cut you like that. And she was so, she was shaking. She was so, she was like, this was unnecessary. He's like, well, why did he do it? She's like, because he was lazy and he was an asshole. And so then she and then when it came time to deliver my daughter and she had to like, she had to use the same line and she was so mad that she had to like do this. And like, so it just was like this very traumatic thing.

And my body never felt like with a kid in me. Like it never felt like my body anyway. Because I'm like, there's an alien growing in me. This is weird. And like, every time, like, they would move and I'd like see them. I was like, I was not like, oh, I was like, get it out. Like, what is this? And so then, like, to lose complete control, like, a lot.

Like, just I did not have, like, easy pregnancies and births. And so, like, Fahira and all of that, like, just was my own way of processing my shit. And, like, it's not like, I didn't die. I wasn't dead like Fahira was, but like, like the fear, like Reese's fear, even that probably came from my fear and thinking about having another kid. And like just like all of that. That's what and that's the way where like the things I go through in life feed into my books where like it wasn't a play by play of my pregnancy.

And like obviously my kids don't have wings that are getting stuck in the birth canal. But like the fear, the trauma, like all of that. like the writing that book allowed me to get it out of my system, NOI, and process it. Thank you for sharing that because obviously I've read the book and this gives so much more color to like the why. And it just made me think too. Like we don't talk about how it is very risky. Yeah. And there's like a constant, like they're constantly doing tests. Like every ultrasound is terrifying because you want to make sure is everything okay? Is there a heartbeat even? And you're like, and so there's all, there's joy in it, but there's fear constantly,

like constantly built into the stages of pregnancy. And like maybe some women do just have pure joy, but I found it to be very stressful, very scary. I just was constantly like worrying that something would go wrong. I mean, when I was pregnant with my daughter, I actually like broke my ankle and fell down the stairs. Yeah, I took one step and like my ankle just like crunched. And then I fell down the stairs because my ankle like gave way. And I was like pretty heavily pregnant. I'd be like rushed to the hospital. And like they'd like check that the baby was okay. It's like traumatizing. Yeah. And it just was like a level of like freak out where everyone's like, oh my God, like the worst possible thing could happen and it's like it was intense. It was. Were you nervous at all about the feedback of writing this into Fairo's? No. I mean like the thing is is like, I Again, with, like, the sex and the periods. I'm like, motherhood is a thing that so many women experience for better or worse. And it was something that I wanted to write about where I didn't want, like, like, Farah's journey shouldn't just end where it's like she's happily ever after and she's punching out kids.

I'm like, no, like, there's like a story to be told there. There are things that, like, will play out from that. And like, motherhood doesn't need to be like glossed over. It doesn't need to be something that's like seen as weak. Like someone being in a loving relationship with a person and choosing to bring a new life into this world and to share their world and open up their hearts to someone. That's a beautiful thing. Like however you make a family, like that is a beautiful, wonderful thing. And it is not a weakness.

And like I have become a stronger person because I'm a mother. Like I learned how to stand up for myself becoming a mom more than I ever did before I had kids. and I realize, like, I, who I am now, not just being a mom, but the things I have learned as a mom. Like, I realize, like, they're like the biggest badasses in the world. And, like, I have learned more from being a mom than I ever did. And I think that's a strength and a wisdom that, like, should be shared. It is. And, like, beautiful that you did.

I also remember, and I don't know if you can say if it was related to that, but you've said before that you were going through some mental health struggles while writing a court of silver flames. And in the book, obviously, we see Nesta working through some of her trauma and trying to overcome it. Like, in what ways did your life at the time mirror or influence each other in that writing process? All of my books kind of have mirrored my own mental health journey. Even before I realized I had issues, like a lot of what, like, Aylan went through. and air of fire, all of that. Like, that was, like, drawn from, like, very broken places in me.

Mist and Fury, that came out of me, and I didn't even realize, like, what that meant about me. But Silver Flames was really the first time when I understood the connection. And I, around 2018, I mean, it was the year my son was born. I had three books published. I was requested to come back from my maternity leave, like a couple weeks later to do copy edits, like page, like, just like reviewing stuff. And like, so like I literally, like, the stuff I sent in was splattered with breast milk because I was like pumping and pumping like while I'm like editing pages. It was a lot. And like there was a lot.

And it was like, like, Kingdom of Ash was coming out that year. and like I just kept like refining things and tweaking things and it's about to go to the printer and I'm told like it's too long. The book is too long by a couple pages. It has to go to print in like two days. We need to find like five pages to cut. And like not just like like see like like so I went through this book again pumping hormonal recovering from a C section, frantic to find like to move text or like literally not just like cutting words but like being like this line like you could like bump this word. up here, like all like 1,000 pages in a frenzy, I finish it, and then I get an email,

oh yeah, we found this space anyway. It's okay. And so, like, it was just like, there was a lot going on. And so, like, that was the year that I started to have these, like, panic attacks where I had this overwhelming sense that something awful was going to happen, that it was all going to go away and implode and that like it and it got like I would I would I had a panic attack that lasted for like two three days out of the I'd never had one before and then they just started happening like more and more frequently until like I got to like the fall of like 2019 and I reached like such a dark place that like I scared myself and I realized like I needed to talk to someone I needed therapy um like it was a very like, I'm feeling like I'm going to cry talking about it. It was a very, very low moment.

And going to therapy wound up being the thing that saved my life. It saved my life. And I went because I looked at my son. Sorry. And I just was like, I want to be here. This is what I'm fighting for. I don't want to feel this way. The thing that I love the most writing has become terrifying to me. like I need to not be, sorry, in this hole. And so I started going to therapy. It got put on medication. We figured it out. It was rough. But out of that, as I was doing that, that's when I started writing silver flames. And so what Nesta feels in that book, I wrote that as I was going through therapy. And so like, I've never cried talking.

I feel very emotional talking about this. But her, I remember like the exact moment when I like came up with the idea for this scene where she and Cassie and are taking that hike and she just breaks down. And like that was me in New Zealand with Josh at my lowest. on a hike thinking the same thing and just like and as I was on this hike I started crying and then I saw Nesta and I saw this scene and so like that came out I took notes I wrote down that scene like that all came out of me and so where she gets like at the end like she's not perfect she's not healed she's still a work in progress but like I she was in a whole I was in a hole

and like we dug our way out of it together and like the friends that I like made during that it's like the friendship she made where like the love that you have with like your romantic partner is one thing but then like finding like girlfriends that like get you and like don't judge you like that is another thing and like that was a gift that I was given to that like and so you just I just basically wrote what needed to come out of me as I was going through all of it. And so that book has a very, very special place in my heart. But now I'm able to look back at like Mist and Fury and like it. And like it. And so that book has a very, very special place in my heart. But now I'm able to look back at like Mist and Fury and like, Aylan's journey in Thorn a Glass and realized, like, oh, yes, like, I did actually suffer from a lot of these things for many, many years. And I had coping mechanisms in place that were very effective until they weren't anymore. Can you share a little bit with Mist and Fury, like what you were going through? I mean, Fyra's sense of panic, like those panic attacks that she has, where she's describing walls coming in. And like, all of that came from feelings that I had. I didn't even know I was having panic attacks that raised the acid and the blood feeling, reactions to things.

Like, just like these ups and down, like, all of that. And like, I drew on my own, like, emotional feelings, but I had no idea until I was able to reflect in therapy. Like, oh, like, so, like, high school. Like, yeah, like, of course that's why I felt the way I did. Like, my anxiety around, like, tests and all of that and, like having to, like, perform, like, so many, I've uncovered so many things about myself, but that now make, like, looking back on my books, I'm like, oh, this is really interesting because, like, this was the shit that I was going through without even realizing I was going through that. But, Sarah, like, it's so real hearing you speak about this because you sharing your birth journey. And as a woman sitting across from you, I, when you were like, oh, my God, I hope this isn't too much detail. I was like, no, no, no, keep going because I think all of us are sitting here being like, yes, we're.

We've experienced it. We've all gone to, whether it's a gynecologist and it's been uncomfortable or a doctor. And these are real things that kind of are like hush, hush and you don't talk about all the way from that traumatic experience. And then having your child, you having this moment where the thing that you loved the most of like wanting to have a child and also writing and all of it kind of closing in and not going the way you wanting it to. And everyone's like yelling at you to get these things done. What used to be such a fun time in your life to just write because it was in your brain. Now it's like, it's a deadline, let's go. It's a job.

It's a job. And so you started to put too much pressure on yourself because understandably this thing has gotten so massive. Yeah. And unfortunately, as humans, sometimes we literally need the breaking point to slow us down to be like something has to change. I can't live like this forever. Yeah. Yeah. And just like realizing that like I do have a value as a person beyond my books.

and like my, the love that like the people around me feel for me is not tied to my success. And like, and accepting that like whatever happens, like that doesn't take away from me. And like the blessings that I have in my life, not in terms of like the material things, but like my children, my husband, my friends. Like those are all the things that like nothing can take that away from me. And that's what I like realize. Like I learned to separate it in a very healthy way. Where now, like, it is like a job for me now, but it's something that I can approach with joy and, like, confidence where I'm not operating from a place of fear, which is what started to happen before I had these, like, massive panic attacks.

That is so relatable. And I have also experienced that in my life. So I'm, like, very and sympathetico with you right now. And I think a lot of people can relate to that of having a feeling in your life where you get something you've always wanted. but then the fear of losing it, it starts to take over your entire body. It eats away at you. And you feel like as big as it keeps getting, you don't have time to stop and process it and enjoy it. And it's like all of a sudden your greatest happiness that was this passion thing becomes this nightmare.

Exactly. That only you can kind of re-regulate and be like, if all this goes away tomorrow, I'm still me, I have my husband, I have my family. And it doesn't have to go away tomorrow, But I have to believe that if I need to know I would be okay if it didn't. Yes, my therapist made me go through a scenario. She's like, okay, it's all done.

What are you doing? And like she made me walk through it. She's like, what do you do? She's like, what's your priority? I'm like, well, I need to make sure that my kids have how. Like, we went through every worst case scenario. And she had me figure my way out through it until I realized like I am, I will survive. I am like strong.

I am like able to adapt and pivot if I need to. And like, so like knowing that that gave me a freedom to be like, yeah, okay, I'll do the thing that I want to do. Like, worst case scenario, I'll be like a florist slash like DJ slash like amateur marine biologist. Like I wanted to be like as a kid. Did you want to, okay, when I was in middle. Just. Okay. Like when I was in middle school.

Sarah J. What? When I was in middle school, I had this like, I loved Sharma. I still love sharks. Okay. But I wanted to be a marine biologist as well as a writer. But like I had this dream of like living like on the beach and like the Caribbean, like sleeping in a hammock at night. And then like going out in the morning with like my spearfishing gun and catching my like lobster for breakfast.

And then I go out and study sharks all day. And like that was the life I was going to lead. So you're like, I could tap back into that guys. I'll go back to all. I nearly flunked every science and math course, which is why I did not become a marine biologist. freshman bio, I was like just on the verge of an F the entire year. It's good to know though. Like if all this goes away, we know where to look for you. Yeah, find me on the open seas. I love that we also just hit on like F the whole system of like, oh my God, she's just talking about sex and we just went through all this

really intense fucking shit. And now we can talk about the sex in a fun way because that is not just what it is, but it's a huge major point. My parents, I'm not even telling them about this interview. Okay, don't even tell them. Yeah, don't tell mom and dad. Don't tell mom and dad. They're never going to watch this. They don't even know. No, they didn't even know how to use an iPad. My dad's reading the paper, newspaper still. This might be in the newspaper. No. Hopefully. Oh, God. Maybe it'll get really good. Okay. I was thinking about it. You talked about how, like, you love to write about the push and pull in relationships romantically, which, like, obviously, we all love it. But what first you specifically really makes you tick about that type

of dynamic? I just like, if I'm like, does that kind of turn me on? Yeah, okay, then I'm gonna fucking write it. And like that dynamic, like, the characters have to like have that spark initially. It's almost beyond me where like if they don't like, and sometimes like two characters will like get together. And there's like something there that I didn't even like plan. I'm like, oh, okay, like we're going to go with that. And I like the way like that makes me feel. And like there's something there that I can't put my finger on, but there is like a chemistry.

Give me an example. I mean, when I was first writing. at Qatar a million, a billion, bajillion years ago, those initial few weeks, I was just going by, like, headlight style. I would only write as far as I could just, like,

see, like, down the road. And so Faire, I just was writing as it came to me. Like, I did not plan that book. It just poured out of me. So, like, I didn't know it was going to happen. I didn't plan it out beforehand. So Fara, like, there's a beast,

and I'm like, oh, this guy is, like, hot. And, like, she gets to his, like, house. And I'm like, oh, he's sexy. And then, like, we get to, like, the he gets in the night when Reese shows up and then I'm like, oh no, oh no, like it's not this guy, it's this guy. And then like, and so that was like, that initial seed. I was like, this is a sweet little romance with like Beauty and the Beast with like

Fahara and Tamlin. And then like page whatever, it's like Reese walks on. And like I did not plan him. He walked into that scene ahead of time. I was like writing this in real time, not planning it. I had nothing to do. I didn't have a job at that time. So I just was like writing like whatever came out of me that.

day. And so like I one of the most epic scenes you're like it just happened in my brain. It literally I was just writing this scene where like I had planned for there to be like, you know, like sexy like bonfires, all of that. And then like through the smoke all of a sudden this guy comes. And I'm like, who the fuck is this? And then like he's there. And I'm like, oh no, like this is what we're doing. So it's like that kind of thing where I'm like, like, and that's just like I saw it and felt it all like. But then like of course like it was so funny when like the first Akatar came out and people were like, I love Tamlin so much. I got a tattoo of him and like knowing what like was going to happen.

I was like, I'm so happy. Like I'm so happy for you. Also, I'm so sorry. I will give you. I will pay for the tattoo laser removal in like a year. Well, no, it was such a mind fuck because I also was falling in love with Tamlin and then I was like, what is happening? But I wanted it to be like, like, you know, like, well, you fall in love with a guy and then

you realize like he's not the one for you and like he's got a lot of fucking issues. Yes. across your books, if you had to say right now today, which couple is your current favorite? Oh, my God. I don't know. That's really, really hard and depends on my mood. I don't know. Okay.

That's important. I don't like that. I can't. I love them all. Again, like, I have to feel it and, like, feel that, like, sexiness. It's too hard. And I have to be, like, obsessed with them. Okay.

Fuck, Mary Kill. Resand, Hunt, Rowan. Oh, my God. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. I'm like trying to think of like the realities of my own marriage and like what has worked and what doesn't work. Okay. I'm like, which one of them farts the least? That's the one I want to marry. Perfect. Because I live with that reality. Well, you know, you know you wrote these people. I don't know. This is hard. I mean, like, I kind of like want to fuck all of them. I mean, to be quite honest. And marry all. I don't want to kill any of them. I don't want to kill any of them. I, You'll fuck them all. Yeah, I'll just... Honestly, you make the rules today, Sarah. Okay. You want to fuck them all.

Yeah. I'm fine. My parents aren't listening to this. Yeah, let's... They have no idea. My son is listening. Your son and your husband are in the other room, but that's fine. Yeah.

No, no, I hope they covered his ears. Yeah. Is it true that you, like, part of your process is you sit and ponder how sexy the character's potential name is before officially giving it to them? Oh, yeah. Again, like, I am... Like, I will always be like a Legolus fan girl. that's like his name.

And like, like, what if he was named? Like, I mean, no offense to anyone, but like, Frank. Right, you're like Frank? Right. Like, I'm not getting off to Frank. The elf warrior prince. We, are there any names that almost made the cut in your series but didn't that you could share? I mean, nothing like, yeah, nothing.

I don't think I've, like, named, like, every, like, I've used up, like, all my hot. But, like, usually, like, if, like, someone's attractive, I'm like, okay. let's find the hottest name. And then I'll go through like baby name websites. And I'm like, sexy Celtic warrior god with abs of steel. What name is that? I wish I could see your Google searches. It would be sad.

It would be like, what times the next Laboooo drop? And then like, show me abs. And what are good names? And what are hot baby names? That's a sexy baby names, which I'm sure is a very strange thing to I was so messed up from it because when I was reading it at first, I was in my own world and I really thought his name was Rysand. And then I thought, you're like, oh, you idiot. And then I thought Sarah.

No. I allow any and all pronunciations. You do. It's a safe space. I am not going to judge. I am a reader first and foremost. Okay. So I understand.

Well, because when you shorten it to rise, it looks like rise instead of Reese. And then I remember going on TikTok and I was like, oh my God, I'm an idiot. And so then I had to like retrain my brain, which is fine. And Fahra. I forget. Fara is not a natural one. Reese is an actual like name in this world. But wouldn't it be R-E-E?

Well, it can be spelled like that, but there's, isn't there like a Phillies player? You're right. I got confused. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Whatever. I don't know his. It's not like, Fyra is a made up name. That one.

How did you come up with that? I don't know. That was just like, I was like, I was like, what sounds cool? Faira. Done. Done. Put her. Yeah.

We're done. Okay. We need to quickly talk about the Tamlin and Resan thing because it is a big conversation that I think people are going to kill me if I don't ask about. Obviously, throughout the Akatar books, we saw Tamlin like trying to justify his controlling tendencies by saying things like, oh my gosh, I'm just doing it to protect Farah. Then he locks her in the manner, which was infuriating and wild. What were you hoping for readers to understand about their relationship as that slowly started to progress? Because you're right. made us all fall in love with him and get tattoos about him and then and then. Yeah. And you know what? I think like people change in relationships and what Fara and to be fair, Tamlin went through under the mountain fucked them both up majorly. And Tamlin is someone that, you know, we haven't delved too deeply into this, but it's been put in the books. Like he had a fucked up family. He did not

have any systems in place to cope with that. But he also is a guy who's been like in charge and powerful for a long time. And then like someone's like, like, he doesn't know, he doesn't have the emotional toolkit to handle this. And he implodes. And he drags her down with him. And that was just like, it just felt natural to me. Like, it just felt like a natural thing where like I knew who Tamlin was as a person, knew, like, that this is how he would react. And this, like, shows who he is. And it's, like, Reese responds to the trauma in a different way, in the way that Fahara needs and connects with. Tamlin can't handle that trauma.

And it's, you know, he made his own choices, but he's also the result of his upbringing. So there's an element that, like, me that I pity him, you know, in the same way I'd pity, like, anyone who's like endured like an abusive family trauma, all of that. Like he like he's been through it and he doesn't know how to cope with it. And like he does shitty things because of it. And I'm not like excusing those shitty things because like that is why Fahara moved on. But I wanted Fahara to like realize like there are different ways to face the shit that you go through. And that's what defines you.

The wedding scene. Oh yeah. I loved it so much because I thought it was actually such again, such an accurate representation. of a woman before those doors open. Yeah. And you see so many women who talk about, I kind of knew before I went down the aisle, so why did I do it? Yeah. And you slowed it down so perfectly that it was this like horrifying, amazing moment that it was just, it was amazing.

Do you think Tamlin will ever have a full redemption arc? I don't know. It's tricky because I've had so many women, especially. including some, like, very dear friends of mine who've, like, come up and told me about, like, how they saw their own abusive relationship mirrored in Tamlin. And so if I were to ever write, like, more about Tamlin, it would be done in a way where, like, it doesn't erase what he has done. It, and it doesn't, like, invalidate the feelings of, like, my readers who have connected to that.

It would have to be done in a way that was genuine to him and to reality, but also, like, well aware of, like, what he means for, like, different types of people and different experiences and to honor and respect them for that. And, like, I don't usually, like, let those things dictate what I write, but it's something, like, one of my very best friends is, like, a survivor of domestic abuse. And, like, you know, she often refers to her ex as Tamlin. And, like, I've actually talked to her about it. Like, how would you feel? Like, you know, like, if just like me is the create, like separating us as friends, like, would that feel like a betrayal to you? And so, like, we've had like interesting conversations about it. But it's something I'd really want to think about.

And I've given myself like several options. Because it's something, that's probably like the hardest thing for me to figure. Like, to be quite honest, like, that's tricky for me. It's tricky for me also just emotionally because like part of me wants to be like, that fucker can burn in hell forever. But like as a writer, I'm like, but like, what is the story? What is like, and like not to excuse him for any of it, but just explore it. I love hearing your thought process though, because again, it's like this world and then pulling out of it. Like they are such like real themes.

And then also hearing the dynamic. Like I'm curious, how did you? Obviously, Reese is the highest fay in existence. And so how- Highest or hottest? Both. Both. Both.

Both, Sarah. How did you decide, like, how Fahara was going to maintain her autonomy in that type of relationship? I mean, that should be just, like, a given thing in any relationship, regardless of, like, who has power and what? And, like, I don't know. I'm not attracted to fucking assholes. Like, my husband and I have been together actually since I was 18, for all my, like, crapping on, like, you know. Like, people should have multiple romantic partners. was like my first and only boyfriend. Yeah, but like he, we are equals. We are partners in this.

And like, I don't, like, I think I just demand that like the females in my books, like have those relationships of like respect and like partnership just like, because that's what I demand like of myself and what I expect of myself. And like that's what I have. That's the gift that I've been given is someone that like respects me and like honors me and, like, loves me. And, like, the power dynamic thing, I'm like, you know, like, I don't know, it's kind of like, I think it's, like, really kind of hot that, like, the super powerful dude, like, wants to

get on his knees in front of this late. Like, like, she is in control of him 100%. But even that, but she doesn't want control over him. She wants a partner. Like, she doesn't want, like, you know, like, they do have, like, a push pull of, like, sexy, like, who's in charge or what. But, like, they, they ultimately, like, they want a lover who is also, like, a best friend. that like they can be equal with and speak to on an honest level.

I think the fan's perception of Riesand was really tested when he didn't clearly communicate the risks of what could happen in this pregnancy to her. What is your take on that? I mean, Ries is entitled to like go through his own shit and make his own mistakes. And should he have told Fara, yes, but he was absolutely terrible. Like faced with like, like, I don't know. like I just tried to decide like Reese

in that choice like he made a bad choice I think like it was not like Pharaoh was obviously upset like Nesta thought it was fucked up and like he I love Reese smoking hot like I love

who he is beyond that but like I think it's much more interesting for me as a writer to have him make perhaps a bad call And do it from a place of love and then, like, be able to reflect later being like, maybe I did like the thing here that like the ex-boyfriend like also kind of did. And like that's not okay.

And like what do I learn from it? Like yeah, he's like 500 years old. He's still learning. Yeah. Like he's never like been like he's never been a mate husband. He's never had a pregnant mate. He's frantic. Like he finds out she's been given a death sentence, but she's full of joy about it.

And how do you be that person that takes the joy away? Like, how, like, and Farah would have wanted to know, but I can understand why Reese didn't want to tell her because there was just, like, he was so desperate to find a, like, why stress her out until like, like, he was desperate for a solution. And like, no, and you're right. It's so much more interesting to read from that perspective instead of like, oh, then I tell her and everything.

Like, yeah, no, like they need to have like issue. Like, they're, it's true love, their mates, but like, they, they, will, like, they do have issues that they need to sort out. They have, they've come from very different backgrounds. They're still figuring out the dynamic. They're both navigating a whole new scenario and like, they can make mistakes. Both of them can make mistakes. What do you think was the most romantic moment you wrote between Reese and Fara? Starfall, I think when like she gets like, they get splattered with like the glitter or whatever. Like, I don't know. There's something about that. That scene always stands out for me. I love, like I still hear like, um,

like that scene was very much inspired by um florence and the machine's uh cosmic love and it's like every time i like hear that song i'm like taken back to like being at the house of wind like seeing them yeah how is it so crazy the way that chapter 55 has like everyone's like chapter 55 chapter 55 you're like oh my did you know like where what was your headspace when you were writing that i just was like finally they're finally fucking like good like i can't wait for this So I just like and but like it was like such an emotional release because it was like the buildup of the entire backstory that I as the writer had been waiting and waiting waiting to finally like reveal and like I got to get that out of my system and lay it all out there. And then like the consummation of that. And I just was like this is everything.

And just was so satisfying. So I was like crying but then also just like yeah, this is hot. It just was but like I. And so for it to become like a thing like that actually means a lot to me because that was a scene that I. I had looked forward to writing for so, so long that when I finally came out of me, like it's almost exactly like verbatim, like the way it poured out of me, like not much changed between like the initial version of that scene and the published ones. Like it just means a lot that it connected.

Like it's become a thing. Oh girl, it hit. You mentioned mates. And to just quickly go through that, because I don't know if we still have people that are listening that aren't familiar with the books, I would be shocked. You should be gone by now. You should be gone. We're a little too in the weeds.

can you just quickly explain like what that means in the world's mates? It's kind of like your destined true love in a way, but it's complicated because there's a biological component to it where like you can be mated to someone that is like not actually your true loves. Like there's like true true mates and then there's kind of like nature made a mistake. Like Reese's parents did not love each other. Like it was not a great relationship, but they were mates. And it was like a, like there's a biological thing where they're like, we want to be together.

But then it's like we're fucking miserable with each other, especially as mom. So it's like, it's tricky. But then when you find your perfect mate, like Reese and Fahara, Cassian, that's like that. Like that is like the like last little piece of your soul that was like kind of a little broken and is now like you you found your person. But the rejecting of mates is Elaine. rejecting the bond with Lucian. I think Elaine's got like her own trauma and shit that she's going through right now. I mean, like, imagine, like, being transformed into, like, a whole new body, a whole new lifestyle.

Like, you are gone from, like, I don't know, and, like, the human world there, like, what, 60 years is a good life to suddenly, like, centuries, like, a millennium. Like, the world looks very different. And, like, surprise, like, you've been, like, forcibly. like essentially married to like a stranger who also was like involved in bringing you into this world and like betraying you and like shoving you into the caulder. It's like she's processed. She's got a lot of shit that she's processing. And so like exploring like a concept of a free will, like what does that look like with a mating bond? What like what does that mean? And like does nature like get it wrong sometimes? Does it get it right? Sometimes like what and like that again like as a writer

I have to be like very, I'm like, I like to like find things that like make me interested. Like, no, it's very interesting. And like, you don't want to be mated. I'm like, look, like, what, what do you do? Like, you're stuck with this person. Like, what? Like, what do you do? But like, I mean, the guy's like hot, but it's like, what if it's not?

Like, you don't know. Like, it's just, it's something that like I really like find to be an interesting concept versus like Fyra and Nesto where it was so easy for them. Like, nature picked right. But I was thinking also when we were talking about chapter 55, and all the things. Like, is it true that your grandmother reads these books? Oh, my God. Yes.

I don't know what's worse. My grandma or my mother-in-law reading them. Or your dad. My dad, well, my dad at least has been like, we don't speak of this. Okay. So he won't bring it up. No, but like my- But does he read it all?

He used to. I feel like Silver Flames might have like broken him where he was like, this isn't for me anymore. Back to the newspaper. Yeah, back to the New York Times. But yeah, my grandma reads them Like everyone in her like I know she wouldn't like the term nursing home But like old people's community

Reads them And so I'm like are you all getting like frisky Like reading this? It's like she's 95 years old She's amazing She is like my number one like icon in my life Oh my God But like she's gotten like all the people reading it. Wait, did she ever give you feedback? No, but then like on the opposite end of that,

my mother-in-law has like grilled me and been like, are like the sex scenes in this inspired by you and Josh? And I'm like, yeah, when I'm like thunking your son, I am writing down notes. Would you like me to describe everything for you, Linda? She's like, yes, actually. And I'm like, no, no, no. I'm like, we don't talk about these things. That is? It's more. mortifying. What are grandma and mother-in-law's favorite series? I think, I don't know, actually. For grandma, I don't know. She's read like all of it. But like, I feel like my mother-in-law probably loves Akatar the most. Does she love Resand? Yes, I think she like pretends that it's like Josh, even though it's not. He's not. She's like, oh, Josh. Josh's like, mom, it's not me. No, no,

it is not. The number of times I've had to say, like, it is not. He does not, they have both have dark hair and that's it. That's it. That's the only similarity. I think that's so funny because like I have had that where people, because I have talked about sex on my platform, people feel comfortable to come up to me and talk about sex. Yeah. Have you had any like really wild interactions where people are, whether they're asking details

more about the character sex or they're asking you about sex? Oh God, I'm trying to think of what I mean, like I had a mother come up to me Like a like 50 something year old mother And be like, I just want to say like my daughter loves your books And you've completely like revolutionized her sex life And I was like well, I'm sure she appreciates you telling me that You're like amazing

I was like I love that your daughter But I also was like I kind of love that you guys have this dynamic We're like you know about this Right I think that's really cool but also like I don't know what to say to you as the mother of this child who's... Maybe though it is so... There's a weird thing maybe because it is fantasy.

There is like... It kind of is the... It bridges the gap of just like episode three of Call or Daddy, me being like, this is how you give head. And then like, meanwhile with like Risen and Fahra and Tamlin, all these dynamics, it's a little bit more like... Yeah, like it's... You can ease the blow when you find out...

that your mother or your sister or your friend is reading it. Yeah, you know, like, I actually learned probably more about sex from, like, books and stuff because it just seemed a lot less scary to me and felt, like, very safe and, like, connected to it, like, things like plot in the world. And so, like, that was, like, how I, like, learned. Like, I would not have, like, so I think you're right. I think you're absolutely right. So you're in Los Angeles.

Yes. You're here for, for, call her daddy. Yes. But I need to ask you a pretty pointed question. Okay, I feel like you've asked me a lot of intense questions, so I'm very eager to hear what you could be. Okay. I think we need to address your Instagram post. Which one, Alex? Well, Sarah, the one that quite literally lit the internet on fire, where fans could not tell if it was an arrow or, you know, or or if it was a six to eight, like everyone has been freaking out. And so I have the pleasure of sitting across from you.

And so I have to ask, Sarah, what is going on? Okay. Well, first of all, I guess I have really shitty handwriting, like really fucking shitty handwriting. If my, like, arrows and, like, numbers look messed up. Like, I'm ashamed of this. Like that was not intentional at all. But I will say that that was Akatar 6 with the arrow pointing forward to indicate like things going ahead of that.

And it is for the next Akatar book, which is coming out on October 27th of this year. I've been working and working on that. It's been a long time. coming. It's something that I, it took me a long time to write just because there were enough things going on in my life that I had to like sort through and I had to like, and again, like I will talk about that perhaps in more detail. One day, I've already cried once today. Don't make me do it again, Alex. I don't. Yeah, like my makeup stayed intact. Let's not push it.

But that it's taken a while because it took me a while to find the right story and to be in the right headspace. And then like what poured out of me was this and it poured out like very quickly. I was in Montana the summer and like I don't know. Like I think there's like some kind of like energy vortex like around big sky because like I just got there and like it clicked. It all came out of me. So like talking about like deadline.

Like that's what I was working on like I've been working on like this next project. I'm not going to tell you the title. yet, but like it's or like cover any of that. No, like I've seen, I've seen some of it. Can you tell us length? I mean, it is, I mean, no. I don't want to say any. I feel like ever. I mean, like, it's long. It's long. You can't tell us who's POV it's from. Um, no. And that was one of the, like, surprising things for me and like writing this and like what came out. Like, it's, I, you got a lot of, like, insight into like various things. Like, it's. Okay. Hold on, though.

Because if I know anything about you, there's always a plot twist. You've always got something also that's like, oh, you thought this, but also this. So is there anything else you want to share here on Call Her Daddy Today? Okay. Well, part of why, I guess it's tricky to talk about the length of this book is because this book's coming out October 27th. And then on January 12th, like two monthsly, I can't do math, whatever that is. The next Akatar book will be coming out.

So there will be two books within like a very short span. And what that means and giving you like a glimpse into this project is just the story that was finally ready to come out of me was big. Really, really, really big. And as I started writing this in like this like Monta, like energy vortex, like, it came out of me in a way that surprised me. And by the time I reached, like, you know, I like to do like parts in my part one, part two, part three. By the time I got to like the end of part one, it was like 400 pages long. And there is a certain reality to books, like Kingdom of Ash, like had to be like two pages. Because like the glue will not hold books

together. But like what I was writing felt right. Like that was what the story was what the story that needed to be told. And so I decided I wasn't going to approach this project from a, you know, traditional format of a book. And what if this story, like, what if this book was really fucking long? Like, what if it took me more than a thousand pages to tell the story that needed to be told, the arc that I wanted to create from start to finish? What if that took a long time?

Like, what if that took beyond the constraints of a single volume? And what does that look like? How do I tell that story? And so part one was this huge, huge thing. And then I realized it was going to be four parts, a book told in four parts. So then I wrote part two and part three. And those were really fucking long. And then part four has yet to be written because right now I'm trying to just get part one,

which is out in October. And then parts two and three, which will be out in January is like one combined thing. So it's basically it would be like three physical volumes, but it's like one thing altogether, that like no amount of glue in like any publisher's like factory could ever like hold this. So it's meant to be read ideally as like one massive, massive story as opposed to like a trilogy. Like arcs aren't like wrapped up. It's like in the way like you know, you take my book. It's like if you expand it all a part one, all a part two, all parts like all apart. Like it would be huge.

that. And so I just decided, like, I've never told a story that way. This is how it wants to come out. Why do I have to be held back by the realities of, like, the glue that we need to hold, like, hold the pages in or just, like, placement on a shelf? And, like, how do I get this story out to my readers who've been waiting, like, so patiently, like, as soon as I can. Like, I could not live with the idea of like publishing part one and then being like you gotta wait like a year for like then i was like no like i want that in everyone's hands and so that's why we're doing like this like back-to-back release so there's going to be like a lot of acatar in a very short time um and then eventually like the conclusion will be like written like once once i get i want to get

these like i don't want anyone to wait any longer um but it's like it's a different it's you know it's at guitar but just I'm telling it in a way that's exciting to me and like gives me like the space that the story demanded and the characters demanded. Oh yeah. I'm trying and I'm sure everyone's trying to do this right now. I'm trying to rack my brain around like every Easter egg you just gave us of like who's what story needs to be told all of like the way that it's being formatted. but like I cannot wait for October. I am so excited that you, because the last time you came out was 2021 with the last Akita.

Yeah, yeah, I think it was, oh my God, that was so long. I know. It's been, and that's why I was like, I'm not playing by anyone else's rules. Like, this is like, I want, the most important thing for me is to write these stories, the way they need to be told, but to also like, honor my fans who like make all this possible. And like I'm not playing by like industry rules. I'm not playing by like marketing what I'm doing like what feels organic and like good for me and like my readership. And like I want to do it in a way that's fun. And like we can all like have a great time like

where it's just like the story will unfold like in the way it like in the way that I feel like would be the most fun to like for all of us like come together and be like, oh like what's going on? I'm like, what the fuck are you doing over there? Like, I can't. There's a lot of scheming happening. And what was it like coming back to the Akatar series and like writing and getting your head in this? It was obviously like hard. And again, there's like an element to it where I'm like, okay, like shit that was like tricky, like unrelated to the books but related to the books that I had to like navigate and like figure out.

and I wasn't ever going to force myself to write a book because like that doesn't make a good book. But I'm also someone who like I take no shit from myself or I'm like if I feel like I have writers walk. I'm like get your ass in the chair and work. But this was different. This was different. This wasn't like me like just wall. Like this was this was a level of like I needed to get something sorted out first. And so this came out like when I was when it was ready to come out when I was ready.

when this right story hit me, like, it hit me hard. And I had a vision from the start of, like, what it would be, how I would deliver it to you guys. And, like, that's what I want to do. And, like, getting to be in the driver's seat and decide, like, this is how I want to tell stories. And, like, if I want to adapt it for, like, every new book or, like, just, like, arc, I can do that. Like, I can't, I can't we tell. Like, why do we have to, like, stick to, like, these boxes of, like, this is how you tell a story from A to B. I'm like, no, like, what if we do something different?

Like, I am like, what are you up to over there? I can't, oh my God, the theories are going to go crazy. Oh, my God. I'm like, what did you do? Well, now I'm thinking that I'm just like, I'm juggling, editing two books at once, two massive, massive books at once. So I'm just like, you're in it. That's why I'm like pounding, like, Diet Coke and coffee.

Okay, well, we're almost done. I, we are going to end with some rapid fire. Okay. And I don't know if you'll answer any of these. Okay. But I'm going to try. Okay. Because I'm a fan and I've got to try for the girlies out there.

Okay, okay, okay. So shut me down, but shut me down easy. Okay. We're going to start from the beginning. We're going to start with the throne of glass. What did Lorken do? Oh, someone explained this to me. Like a couple months ago.

I don't know. I didn't know how to feel about it then. I don't know how I feel about it now. I mean, like, maybe like bonus content and like surprise, present. Christmas present sometime for all, all y'all. Okay. Where is Vaughn? You know, that's actually a thing that I think about a lot.

A lot. And that's all I'll say about that. Okay. Is the settling the same or similar as the drop? I don't, I don't, you're asking, okay, let's skip. Just skip, just skip, just go, go, go. You're like, skip. Just say skip if you can't answer it.

Why did Aileen have to lose her powers? I mean, I do think that, like, Like, I actually really grappled with that one where I was like, I hate the idea of her having to give up something that she learned to love and embrace. But at the same time, like, I do think that like there needs to be some level of sacrifice when it comes to making a decision like that big to give up something that you love for something else. Like that's powerful. And I don't think it would, the ending would have felt as deserved. But then I also think it opens up, again, in my like endless thinking about things. Like, just in me as her creator and writing this, like, what does it look like for her after

that? You know, like, you go from like all this power. Then you give it up and like, how does that feel? Like I just, I find that there was like, even with that as an ending, it felt like a different start of like a journey for me. That just like was fascinating for me. I feel like people online have expressed frustration that some of the female characters like her and Nesta have had.

to sacrifice their powers and strength. Well, you know, male characters have not. What is your response to that? Like, these books are about women coming into their power. And but also, like, taking away the magic doesn't take away from their strength. And I think, like, that's what, like, Nesta and Aelin realizes that, like, they're still fucking badasses. And I think that's why it's so easy for Nesta in the end because she's like, I, this wasn't,

this didn't define her. and she's still like she's still Nesta and so like losing that like doesn't make you any less of a hero doesn't make you any less strong um love it yeah okay will we ever see our throne of glass characters again I mean obviously I've told I think about them all the time

so who know there's got to be something let me sleep in past 5 a.m sure perfect kids come on Josh get it together um where is Manon now Is she working to rebuild the waste? Like, what are we doing? I mean, she's, honestly, she should be in therapy. Okay.

That's where she is right now. Let's assume she's in therapy because she went through a lot, a lot. What happened to the world of Throne of Glass Book? Will that ever be released? That wound up being a project that I wanted, I thought would be easy. And then I realized, like, no, like, I need to actually, like, this means a lot to me. and I need to dedicate a lot of time, but I don't have that time

because I want to focus on getting these books, the actual books out. So maybe that's something that I, like, it's still something I want to do, but maybe it comes at a different time. All right, Akatar. Why is there a pool of Starlight in the spring court? Is it a portal?

Who thinks of these things? You! I mean, I do. I do. Look at that face. People read too close. I don't know. I don't.

I'm not answering anything. I'm not answering. Okay. How do Faye get into the House of Wind because they don't have wings? Like, do they climb the stairs? This might be something that you find out. Okay. What is Rysand's last name? I'm not telling anyone. There's so much pressure now. Does it even matter? No. I mean, like he's one of one. Okay. Right? What is the King of Highburn's actual name? Red. Frank. Frank. I don't actually yeah because that actually might be something that we could find out that is discussed okay what are more's powers like truth truth but you like have other powers beyond that but I don't

I'm not going to reveal any more about there might be more about that hey I'm just trying to get things out of you you know what everything is possible everything you're asking me right now could just be like yes yes the answer is yes you'll find out okay um can you tell us anything about the desk court and are you going to explore any of it in your next book? Yeah, but you have to know. Like, what do you want me to say, Alex? What do you want me to say here? I love you. What do you want me to say? Okay, okay, okay. We're moving on. I just, if anything, I'm just getting pleasure out of asking, you don't even need to answer. Okay. Tell me if I'm pronouncing this right. Where did Brigh Axis go? Good. That was good. Thank you.

I mean, where do you think she went? What do you think she is up to? I mean, fear itself. What is that, like, where does that go? Who is Mama Archeron? Is she a descendant of the iron teeth, which is? You're like, you're putting me up there. There's like an alcoholic drink here.

I feel like that's what I need wine. I need a spicy margarita. Okay, we're going to Crescent City. Okay. We never saw the body. So is Cormick actually. dead. Where did you find these questions? All

of me and my friends putting this together be like this is the time of our life. I can like see you with like string and like putting things and me and like my husband was like, what's this episode? I'm like, don't worry about it. What isn't it? Exactly. Are Bryce and Hunt endgame? Yes. What? I don't, where does that? How could

it be? Well, there are a lot of theories that Bryce's true mate is as real. Is there any truth to that? No. I can tell you right. I'm sorry to anyone that shipped that and has been like ride or die with that but like no it's bryce and hunt okay um how did the book of breathings and the walking dead end up in jessiba's library i don't know you'll have to stay tuned for answers there are a lot of theories that rice and rune are related can you confirm or deny you're like fuck off you can say fuck off i'm not saying that

i like you i'm not going to okay fair fair is mave related to any of them I feel like I should just hand over my notebooks to you and you can like comb through them for like all the little notes that I've made. Okay. I have to ask, why are their otters in Crescent City? Why aren't there otters? It's like their otters are one of my favorite animals. Like I lose my shit. Like river otters, sea otters.

I don't know why. I lose it. And so I just was like, what's the cutest thing that like an otter could do? And it's like kind of like an aquatic like, you know, like city. like, what if otters were just like messengers with their little paws handing letters? I love that. You're like, I just put it in there because I like it. It just sounded cute to me.

Yeah. I just sounded cute. Okay. Who or what is Fury Axtar? Is she the mercenary that Fahara met in the first Akitar? These are like, again, these questions that are like, you're asking me things that I'm not sure if I could, should confirm or deny or just like let let people. Am I ruining people's dreams by answering these things? I don't know.

We've all seen the now deleted Twilight of the Gods Pinterest board. Really? What's going on there? That was just like a story that I like, it was kind of like Crescent City where like I always have like manuscripts and other stories in my head. Like I think I have probably like three or four like unpublished full books for like different series like on my computer that just like I don't know if they'll ever see the light of day but like sometimes I just get a story in my head and like I want to start writing it and like I like get like ideas for it

and it comes out and sometimes I want to share that with the world and sometimes I don't. Okay. Who would win in a fight? Bryce, Aelin, Fara, or Monon? They wouldn't fight. They would all be like, this is dumb. We should support each other and let's go get like in and out burger together. Okay. You obviously, are in a success and like a league of your own. You've had just like such an incredible career already. And I know we've talked about the pressures and also the beauty of it. How do you define success at this point in your career? I mean, for me, it's two things. Success is two things. One, it's getting to tell the stories that I want to tell how and when I want to tell them. That's a gift.

That's a wonderful blessing to have. That's all I ever wanted from when I was a kid. But it's also like, am I happy? Am I happy in my life doing this? Am I like, what is the balance? And like, have I, like, do I feel successful in that? Do I feel like I'm able to create from a place of joy and curiosity and excitement while also having a life that is like fulfilling and fun?

and like I get to be a mom to these two incredible kids and like a wife to like an awesome husband. Like and like what like that, like having that and finding joy from that from things outside of my books, that feels successful to me. Like I've built something beautiful completely unrelated to that. But yeah. It is so beautiful. And also like what is so cool too is like you have completely changed the way that people think about Romantasy books. and you have given essentially legitimacy, I feel like, to an entire genre that was either dismissed or overlooked at one point.

How do you feel about your legacy in the literary world? This is going to sound like silly, and you probably like won't believe me. But just like talking about things like legacy is like beyond for me. When I started writing, when I started trying to get published, like I told myself, like, you know, anytime I got a rejection, you know, I was rejected by. every single agent except one, every single publisher except one. And those times I told myself, it didn't matter if it took me until I was 90 years old to publish a book.

If it wasn't the book, I was trying to get published. I'd write the next one and the next one and the next one until it happened. And so I was willing to have a life where just one book eventually made it. And that still was kind of like that was the dream. And so everything else beyond then has been insane. Like insane to me because I'm still very much that like girl in middle school or high school like sneaking off to like watch anime or like drool over Legales and like getting to go like play in these worlds in my head and like do the thing that like makes me come alive every day is like

that's incredible. And so like talking about like these books going beyond that and meaning something. and like playing whatever role they have and like letting other similar books, like get out there and like be appreciated and those like authors be appreciated. Like that that's all. Like I just like, I feel very, very blessed, very humbled.

Like I love that people are reading. Like people like, I mean, as a kid, I just wanted someone to read my shit and be like, it's good. Like that's all I wanted. I also think it's such a great. inspiring story because someone like you again like a lot of times we get the success stories right you're sitting here and you're so well known and you've had such such success but a lot of people could be sitting right now watching this being like i've wanted to be a writer or i've wanted to be

whatever it be and when you are told no so many times that can be depleting and the fact that you are where you are today even though people looked at you being like you're insane This isn't going to work. You had people in jobs. Look at you and roll their eyes about writing fantasy, right? And look at the empire that you've built. Like, what an incredible testimony to women listening. Like, if anything, I genuinely believe that when people are telling you that you're crazy for wanting to start something or do something and they're all looking at you kind of cross-eyed, that is like your first indicator that you're on to something incredible.

Oh, yeah. Anytime someone told me I couldn't do something, I would say, watch me. just watch me. You said you're like, I'll sign the book one day. Yeah. Yeah. Where are they now? Yeah.

Where are they now? And just like, I don't know. Like, I wrote the thing that I love. Like, I wrote the stuff that I love that I've always loved. And like I was always flabbergasted that anyone, especially like older adults would tell like a young person like, like it's not worth your time. It will never happen. I'm like, why can't we all be supportive of our dreams? And like, but thankfully, like I knew what I wanted.

Like I knew this was what I wanted to do. And so there was nothing that was going to stop me from that. But I also was willing to like, if it took me until I was 90, that was just what I want. Just one book that came out when I was 90 years old. Like that would have been wonderful. And look how money you have and more to come. And more to come. I cannot thank you enough for sitting down with me.

I'm sure you can feel. I could have kept going. Like I have so. I'm very comfortable right now. I have so many questions. there's so many like world building questions and character arcs and I recognize I was trying to do a balance of getting to know you also getting into your psyche and I think we we found a good balance of the themes in your life that have inspired some of these incredible worlds and characters

but it was really fun to sit down with you because I've been a fan from afar and now getting to sit with you I feel even more invested weirdly and I'm like now I need to go back and read all of these before October. No pressure. I just need to find some time. I'm very glad that I didn't like disappoint you and you were like she was the worst and like the most boring. If anything, I don't want you to leave.

When we turn up the cameras, make, oh, yeah, and one more question. Another question. Another question. I'm going to Montana. You want to come to Montana with me? We're going to Montana. Bye, everyone. I'll show you the vortex where everything.

Where you wrote it all. Yes. I'll show you the magic vortex. Sarah. Thank you so much for coming on Call her Daddy. It was an honor. It was actually an honor. I mean, like we talked about like me and like what you have done.

Like, again, like, my friends don't give a shit about me. I mean, like, they do. They're proud of me. But, like, me coming on here, like, this was a big, big deal for them. And, like, thank you for making me feel cool. You are cool. I don't know about that. You are.

You are. You are literally so cool and you are building worlds that all of us are obsessed with. I don't know what could be a cooler job. Like, what you have in your brain has made all of us into this. insane fandom, like bow down to you. Great work. Great work.