Call Her Daddy - Taylor Momsen: The Grinch, Gossip Girl, & Grief

Episode Date: November 5, 2025

Join Alex in the studio for an interview with Taylor Momsen! Taylor reflects on her past as a child star, quitting Gossip Girl, being exploited by the paparazzi, and breaking into the music industry with The Pretty Reckless. She also opens up about losing two people very close to her and how she has worked to overcome her grief. Enjoy! Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

What is up, Daddy Gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper, with Call Her Daddy. Taylor Momson, welcome to Call Our Daddy. Hello, thank you for having me. I am so excited to finally sit down with you. I feel like you've been someone that I wanted to have on, and it's been a long time coming, so it feels right that you're here. Thank you. How are you doing? I'm doing excellent. Are you in L.A. just for promo and everything? promo and rock and roll hall of fame and it's a busy it's a busy week okay we i read somewhere that you are a night owl and you kind of go to bed late were you up late last night i tried to go to bed well i flew and i actually flew in from seattle yesterday okay um i feel like i haven't slept in

at least three weeks so i'm kind of running on fumes i'm hitting that point um so i tried to go to about earlier, which was like midnight, which was very early for me. Okay. Is this just like all musicians though? Because every single musician I've interviewed, one wants a late star and two, it's like they don't, they literally like start their nights at like 1 a.m. I think my brain doesn't wake up until like seven. Okay. So 7 p.m. 7 p.m. So like anything before 7 o'clock, I can show up. I can do it. But it's my brain just isn't at its highest functioning quality until like seven. But do you. But do you think that's because you're playing shows and writing music and your most creative at night? I think definitely a part of it is the routine of used to being up late because of touring and things.

So you get on that schedule and then it's just hard to switch a schedule. But I've always found even when I was younger and I didn't have that, if I try to go to bed early, I can't even if I fall asleep, I'm more tired the next day than if I just stay up and then sleep less. It's a weird thing. But I definitely find creative, like my creative brain starts to work at night. Okay, well, I'm happy that you're waking your year. Yes. Fabulous. Made it.

Okay, you were the lead singer of the Pretty Reckless band. Can we talk, though, about that you have a Christmas EP that just came out. And I feel like, just from the vibes, I'm like, this is a departure from what your band is usually doing. Did you have to convince everyone to do this? And, like, was it primarily your idea? It was my idea. Well, let me rephrase that. It was actually, it was the fan's idea.

So this is something that it's Taylor Momson's Pretty Reckless Christmas, and I'm doing the song from The Grinch. Where Are You Christmas? And that was something that when I first formed The Pretty Reckless when I was 14, every year people put the connection together that I was Cindy Lou Who in The Grinch. And every year I got more and more exponential and more and more people, you know, put that together. And it was always kind of a funny thing that, you know, you smile at and you go, ha, that's cute.

and every year they'd go do a rock version of where are you Christmas and for I don't know 15 years I went no way like in zero worlds is this something I would ever do fast forward to it's COVID we've gone through a lot of loss like it's a very hard time in the pretty reckless world and in my life and there's nothing to do because we're in lockdown and so the only thing to do is to rehearse with the band because we're all cool to be together and so we just spent a lot of time in the rehearsal studio, the holidays were coming up, we're starting to see these comments again of do a rock version of Where Are You Christmas? And we kind of all turned, I kind of turned to everyone and went, should we just try this? Like, should we just see what happens here? And so we put together an arrangement, which was actually kind of tricky because it's not really a full song. It's a minute long. And so to make it a three and a half minute song, whatever, we worked that out. We go into the rehearsal space and we jam through it once. And I kid you, not, Alex? By the end of the song, these four depressed, miserable people had giant grins on

our faces. And we all kind of looked at each other and went, was that just great? Like, I think that there was something magic that just happened here. Are we doing this now? We're doing this. So that's where it started. And then I decided in order to being me and being very thorough with everything, in order to have it, I needed it to have context and I needed it to equate to me now and, you know, all the things that there's actually some substance to what I'm doing. So I wrote an entire original Christmas record around it. And that's, of course you did. Of course I did. But the fact that it came also from like, the fans relentlessly being like, come on. Like bring our girl Cindy Lou Who back. Like, come on. And I, which I want to get into today because I know there's a lot to discuss in terms of like

your early career. And I feel like I've had a lot of conversations. with actresses who then go into different roles in their career of just like making a pivot as a woman is so difficult. And so sometimes you have to abandon who you were known for and really, really almost like kind of turn your back on that to be taken seriously in another department. And so the fact that you are now sitting here and like even like being able to like smile and say Cindy Lou Who with a smile and an interview like I'm sure if I interviewed you maybe 10 years ago, you would be like, I don't even want to talk about that. Yeah, there's definitely an element of that. So there's growth. Oh, there's tons of growth. And I think also,

you know, I'd be remiss to not mention the loss that we went through. And it was a hard time for me. And I think coming out of that grief and getting to the other side of it, it forced me to kind of reflect on my life in a lot of ways. And Grinch, like, I went back to the very beginning. And Grinch to me was always great. Like, I don't have any bad memories with Grinch. Everything about it was awesome. Like it was super fun. I was super young. But there was so many, it was such an incredible project to be a part of that was so upper echelon at such a young age to see, you know, actors of that caliber and of Jim Carrey and Molly Shannon, et cetera, et cetera, Ron Howard. And then it was also my first experience in a recording studio. And so, you know,

when I was, when the movie came out and stuff and I was in school, like you're teased relentlessly for it. You're Grinch girl. I've moved around a lot. Like all of that. kind of stuff was hard for me as a kid. But when I got older and looking back on it, I go, no, all of those things that happen and all of those experiences of making this film was wonderful. And so why am I shunning this? And like, I am Cindy Lou Who. Like, I am that girl. Like, I'm still that girl. I think we're a similar age. Are you 31? 32. Okay, I'm 31. And I want to go back to the beginning because I know you started your career so young. But even when we're going to talk about The Grinch. I was thinking about that where I read that you had been bullied for this role.

And I'm sitting there and I'm like, what? Like, what do you? What? Like, that is the most, like, iconic, incredible. This movie has lived forever. I watch it every single year. Like, you were adorable and perfect and all the things. But then it's like, oh, no, but you're also just like a normal kid then going to school and kids are fucking assholes. Whether it was jealousy or they actually just thought you were a quote unquote freak. They're like, you're the Grinch. girl. And you're like, so at that age, it doesn't matter that this is like this incredible movie. It matters what your peers are saying. And if they're saying you're not cool for that, then you digest that to be like, I'm not cool for this. Oh, yeah. And I didn't grow up in a

Hollywood household or anything. Like, I was born in St. Louis. Okay, wait. Take me back. You get into the industry from what I understand around like two years old. How do your parents even explain to you, like why they got you in so young? I was just talking about this the other day, and I think I need to have another conversation with my parents, because I don't even fully know the story. I know they put me into modeling. I was signed by Ford Modeling Agency when I was two, and I was very chatty, and I don't know, a bunkular, and they went, my modeling agency said, does she have an acting agent? And my parents went, no. And they went, okay, well, she should, so go over to this agency. They sent me on my first audition, and I booked it that day. It was

for shake and bake and I was three. So that, it was a national commercial. And so that was the kicking off point where I think they went, oh, we can do something with this for real. And so that was, that was the start of it. So you start as a model. Started as a kid model. And do you have any, like, core memories or no, you were just so young? Not really. Like, I only remember the photos because I've seen them, you know. Okay. So then you get the Grinch at six. That's also blurry. It's five, six. It's somewhere in there. Okay, five, six, you star as Cindy Lou who talked to me about like the audition. Do you remember the audition at all? I remember pieces of the audition because it was a really long process. That's why the timeline's a little blurry.

So I think I started auditioning for it when I was five and it came out when I was seven. So I had birthdays in between there, obviously. But the audition process was long. I remember going in lots of rounds of it. And I remember the screen testing. the most because that's where it was down to me and two other girls. And we got to try on wigs. And that's where they were starting to kind of put together what Cindy's going to look like. And so I went from a neon pink wig to a green wig to a yellow wig to this kind of outfit to this kind of outfit. And that process was really, really fun for me as a kid because you get to play dress up and it's awesome. And so it's pieces of it. It's hard starting so young. It's always hard to remember what you remember and what you remember because people have told you the stories and you've turned them into memories. Also, I can watch my entire life. So it's how much do you remember? How much are you watching it and remembering from that, you know? Yeah, because it's like similar, very different, but similar just for a kid in your childhood, you get told things by your parents. And then you're like, oh, cool. Yeah. And you see a picture. And then you can kind of also like fakely come up with what you think you remember from that. Exactly. But we're so fucking.

young and like five years old because I was thinking you're saying it was so fun to do these try on these wigs but do you remember any part of you in any capacity being like intimidated by being a part of something so big or you didn't even understand. I didn't understand that and I I never remember being nervous or anything like that. It was it was fun. It was like that's what I'm saying like Grinch is like it's so positive for me like that my memories of that are so awesome. Okay you had to go to who school. Sorry just indulge me because like we're getting close to the holidays. Talking about fun. Who's school was amazing. Do you remember like the wildest things that you got to be a part of during that time? Well, the entire Who school was,

I think it was like seven months long of all the people and all the acrobat's training to learn to act and create this world that Ron saw on his head of this whimsical over-the-top whoville. So they had, so walking into that was a big, you know, like, what are they like hangers, the big sets on Universal Lot. And it was just empty, but they had giant, you know, life-sized balls that acrobats are walking on and people doing backflips. And so you walked into this world and you're just going, what is this kid playground? And I did all my own stunts. So I had to learn how to, I did stunt training. Okay, but you didn't have to do the prosthetics, right? I didn't have to do the prosthetics. They, Rick Baker molded my face and after he

casted me and stuff, I think everyone just kind of collectively decided that that's too much to put a kid through, to have to go into prosthetics every day. So they wrote it into the script that I haven't grown into my nose yet. No, honestly, adorable. I also was thinking about that because I think I saw an article somewhere where it was like Jim Carrey would sit in like eight and a half hours of prosthetics. Prostatics. And it killed him. Like, from what I remember, it was brutal on him. Insane. He went, I think he, he, he feel free, Jim, feel free to tell me if I'm wrong. But if I remember correctly, I think he went through actual torture training, like with a real Navy SEAL guy to learn how to deal with it. Because he's, he's so covered. I mean, the suit, the, and the contacts. I remember there was a time when, because we had all that fake snow coming down and snow got underneath his contact and it, you know, killed him. Like, so painful. No, no, no. I, I genuinely can't imagine. But then obviously. like he brought it to life in such a beautiful way. Do you remember just like what it was like

having him as your co-star? Because he's obviously so fucking talented. It's like crazy. Insane. To see that level of talent at such a young age, I think really had a big impact on me. Just to see someone who takes their craft that seriously. And I get asked a lot if he scared me, you know, because everyone, I think a lot of kids were scared of the Grinch. He's never scary to me. To me, he was always Jim and he was always in makeup. He was very protective of me. He was very kind, super funny, super animated. Like, absolutely awesome.

But the funny thing is, I never knew what Jim Carrey looked like. Because I never saw him because he was there way early doing the prosthetics. Oh, my God. So you're like, you know, Jim Carrey is the Grinch. So I didn't know who Jim was until the premiere. And someone had to point him out to me and go, that's Jim. And I went, oh, Jim. That's such a mind.

fuck you're like wait a second i know the voice but you're oh wow okay so we're talking about this like beautiful moment in your life and then like you referenced earlier then you go back to school so you're like experiencing the most incredible like kids would dream of this and you're on these sets and you're doing all that and then you go back to school and are you living in st louis living in st louis um my dad works there and i was going to catholic school oh yeah that's a whole thing oh Oh, how'd that go? Oh, wonderful. Don't you know?

Weren't the nuns awesome? They were so loving and understanding. So loving and understanding. I loved when I got really tall and my skirt got too short and I got punished for it. That was super fun. Stop. They're like literally measuring to the knee. Did you have to do it?

Did you do the kneel? Yes. Where they make you kneel and measure from your hip down. Taylor, I like black it out because I was like, no, please don't make me. And I agree with you. Some girls got away if they were shorter with like the skirts could be a little shorter. but if you were tall, then I just outgrew it. It's not my fault. I went through a growth spurt, but nope, you're in trouble. Okay, so you're going through all this. Talk to me, though,

about being a kid and, like, did you have friends? Were you able to make friends? I, I always, I've always had, like, a couple close friends in every stage of my life, um, one or two. But making, I was, I've gone through so many phases of myself. Like, I think the weirdest thing that people probably don't know about me is that I'm actually really shy and no one guesses that. And so I have this external version of myself that is the performer and the professional and all of that. But that's where like songwriting became really important to me because that's where I felt like I could be me. And I started writing when I was really little. So like around Grinch, like five. But I think that makes sense because now being more

involved in the industry like I think a lot of actors not everyone like goes through these weird moments where it's like I'm reading the lines that someone else wrote I'm doing what the director is telling me to do and so like there there's not a lot of autonomy that you've got going on in these situations so like to have something as an outlet that like you can genuinely have for yourself I think a lot of actors try to find that for themselves because we as consumers think that these actors are like they somehow maybe wrote the lines or they did these things and then a lot of actors are like no I'm like just doing what everyone's telling me to do yeah and that from a young age of like you're starting so young of reading these lines being these characters everyone

knows you as these characters you're like wait wait who is Taylor as a human being outside of that well I think I always had a really strong sense of self I always knew that and you know that's why Grinch is weird, but once you get into teen, Grinch is specific. And then once you get into teenage years with gossip girl and things, that's where I think my identity crisis started to come into play where, because that was a whole different world. Grinch is a film that came out that it clearly lives in an imagination, in an imagination world. You know, I don't walk out of my house and have a Cindy Lou Who wig on. So it's, so there was a, there was a clear line there for me, I think, where this is playing dress up and this is Taylor.

And when it got into Gossip Girl and suddenly that was a celebrity show and a tabloid show and New York and paparazzi and suddenly you're being photographed as a character by paparazzi and put into the tabloids as Taylor and it's going, I'm going, that's not what I was wearing. That's not me. That's a character. And I'm getting hate from things I did on the show. I have nothing to do with. And so I think, and I was young. I was 14. So I think that that started to bother me. And that's where I started to realize, like, I'm not good at being

someone else's tool. Like, I need to be my own person. Taylor, you saying 14. 14. 13. 13. 13. 14. That's like right when people are going into high school. And even if you're not an actress, we're all fucked in the head at that point. Because we're like, who am I? And some people are going through puberty faster than others and some people have you know are figuring out their sexual identity and some people feel and you're just like what who am i i am a disaster so to also be doing it on the world stage and playing a character that can somewhat seem like you but it's not you it's just it's a lot it was a mind fuck So you're living in St. Louis. You get more jobs and then you get Gossip Girl at 13 years old.

Well, they were missing a move. So I lived in St. Louis until I was 10. And then my dad switched jobs and we moved to Maryland. So now I'm in middle school in Maryland. And I have just started my first band, like an actual garage band with kids from my school. I finally found my little click, which was kind of the first time in my life. I felt that. And it was. exciting to me and I was still the weird art kid who you know wore combat boots and leather jackets to school and and this was Potomac Maryland so this is very preppy and you know all the girls had bows in their hair and ugs and matching juicy couture sweatsuits and so I was very always just off in schools so I found my you know found my crowd found the art crowd started my first band and was doing really well like I was I was well adjusted to this to the school and this group of friends, and that's when Gossip Girl came around. And that's when my, I said, they go, you're going to move to New York, you're going to audition for this, and you would have to

move to New York for it. No, no, no, I don't want to do this anymore. I love what I'm, I love where I'm at, and 12 at the time. And my agent, my manager, they all flew to my house to convince me to audition for this going, this is going to be a great opportunity. And you'll get some to New York and it's fashion-based. You love fashion and you love New York and blah, blah, so long story short, ended up going to New York to audition for it. Where are your parents at this point? Oh, they're there. They're encouraging the, I mean, they're encouraging this choice. And I don't think it was with any kind of malice or anything like that. I think they're just looking at going, this is a huge opportunity. And just because you're having a good time in school right now,

it doesn't mean you pass up on something that's this massive. Did you at all, because I know I've talk to child actors that like there is like an obvious the financial pressure of just like you're a working child and I know it's like an awkward topic so like share what you're comfortable but like was that a factor at all in this decision um it wasn't spoken about to me you know and I'm still not even a teenager yet so the I never realized I was making money let's put it that way. Yeah. So that kind of, this was always, this is fun, and you like this, and there was an element

of, you know, you do well, you get praise. You don't do well, you don't. And so it's a lot to unpack, I think, probably as an adult looking back on it. And I think a lot of my life now I spend not really thinking about it and going, because I'm one that very much does not. not live with regret or wishing I could change things or whatever. That's just not my vibe because I think it's kind of pointless. So I'm very, like, I'm always looking forward and I reflect on things in order to write about

them and process them and that kind of stuff. But it is what it is at this point. You know what I mean? Again, I think, like, it's, there is a natural, like, empathy that I think, like, the world now just has for child actors because I think of just like the honest truth that just has come out for a lot of these people that like went through this and like when you did get into gossip girl did you then understand that you were making money or like at what point do you think you were like wait you guys I this is also like mine it was gossip girl and it was well I left I moved out really

young. So it was around that time that I started to realize, like, suddenly I was becoming in charge of my own finances and that kind of stuff. And so that's when I kind of put everything together. But it was, it was Gossip Girl that made, gossip girl is a weird one, because like, in one way it was, you know, it was awesome. And in the other way, I really didn't want to be there. So it was this, it was this, it was me starting to come into my own as a person. and having this tug is where music is the thing because I was starting to do that

I was always writing songs I was always doing these things behind the scenes but now to be so universally famous for something that isn't me was really challenging for me and so I felt like I immediately became very defensive I was defensive in interviews I was very also young so arrogant

and kind of an asshole and you know all those things but figuring it out in front of everyone and being judged, you know, very harshly for it, while trying to push back against that going, I don't want this, I want this over here, and I don't know how to get to this place. It's almost like you couldn't stop it once the train started moving. And as we know, how big Gossip Girl got it was like. And no one expected that.

Yeah. Okay, take me to your agents decide, okay, you got to do this. You eventually say yes. You go to New York. You read for the part. Like, what was your, what was your? your first impression of Jenny Humphrey. Well, I mean, I kind of related to the character.

I never really auditioned for things that I didn't understand. And feeling like an outcast in a, you know, in a world that you don't fit in was kind of, that's who I was. It wasn't from Brooklyn and, you know, all that stuff. But it was as a general concept of a character, I identified with her. I feel like now I was about to say this. I'm like, oh, this was kind of a theme lightly in The Grinch for you too. but like you're 14 on set and everyone else is like bare minimum mid-20s.

Like you are beyond the youngest person really on this set. How did that dynamic impact you? Well, I grew up real fast. Let's put it that way. But no, I mean, everyone was cool. It was I still had Connor, who played Eric. He's still one of my best friends. Love that guy.

Well, that's nice because you also had like a lot of scenes with him. A lot of scenes with him. And he kind of, when I first moved to New York, he took me under his wing. I actually ended up going to his high school. And so he introduced me to his friend group and, you know, that kind of whole world, which was only about a year. I ended up graduating early because freshmen and trying to go to a – it had to be a performing arts high school because that's the only way that I could leave

and work and they would give you your work to leave. And I was really adamant about not wanting to be homeschooled because I wanted to make friends. But the reality is the work schedule was too much and I wasn't going there anyway. So I ended up leaving that homeschooling and then graduating at 16. So you're 16 and you're 15. 15. You're living in New York City. You're no longer going to high school.

What are you doing when you're not filming? I was working in the studio. I was writing and working in the studio and then getting into trouble, you know, but typical trouble. Typical as like you would do in New York City as a young girl that's just like I have all of this and no one's going to tell me. And all my friends were older. and I never once got IDed. So that's also par with celebrity. You know, suddenly all those kinds of doors are just open to you and it's fine.

Did you go out with the cast at all or no? You had a separate. I didn't go out with them too much, but I would hang out at their apartments and stuff. Like Chase and Ed lived together at the time. When I had Chase on and he told me about the rooftop parties. The rooftop parties. Okay, so you frequented the roof. Oh, yeah.

We lived like two blocks from each other. Oh, you were in time of your life. yeah so I would spend a lot of time at their apartment and it was very boys club which was very fitting to me I've always fit in with boys clubs and so that was I remember he came on what was it he was like oh I remember one time we had the party and like Lindsay Lohan showed up and we were like act cool act cool this is cool this is cool this is cool okay so you were there oh yeah so this is that's like the although still you're young but that's kind of the fun side of like okay you're getting to become an adult you're doing it in a pretty fast-paced way but when I did

interview Chase and Penn, and this is kind of what you would lightly alluded to and lightly talked about earlier in this interview is the sudden and intense fame. And the explosion of the show that no one could have anticipated. Just talk to me about it. Like from like when it first starts, like how does it impact you off the bat? Well, I mean, the first, the first impact is the paparazzi and that's something that I hadn't dealt with before. And in New York, there's no escaping it. at least at that time. Now, I still live in New York and now I know, now there's like kind of rules to it. You know where to go. You know where to go. You know where not to go. And you know, you know, if you're in Soho, be prepared to be photographed. It's fair game. Yes. But they were coming to my house. They were going to my sister's school. They were, they were everywhere. And that kind of, that feeling of kind of being watched and stocked is just, it's intimidating. It's, I guess, it's unnerving.

And there's also like no one that has the right answer of what to do other than like just deal with it. Just deal with it. And all of your castmates were going through it. But again, you were at such a young age that I can only imagine you're like trying to grow up and handle it. But also like did your parents move to the city? My mom and me and my sister did. Okay. And my dad was still working in Maryland.

Okay. Was there ever a time that you can like recall a memory of like when you were like, no, no, no, this is like really getting too much? I think the reality is I handled it really well. I think I'm pretty thick-skinned at the end of the day. I've lived a very strange life and I've learned to kind of let things roll off my back. But there was, it was less the paparazzi in person that went this as too much and more what would come out afterwards from the photos and that that would turn. And that really started once I started the band, like the negative press where there was this

kind of hatred of what I was doing from the world and people being like here's okay here's an example I'm on stage I'm 16 I'm playing a show I'm wearing a little dress I have underwear on but a photographer goes and shoots up my skirt he kneels down shoots up my dress and my tampon string had slipped out and so my tampon string was sticking out of my underwear Perez hilton puts that on the home page of Perez hilton you can see like the side of my pussy and everything like it's like a very, it's still on the internet. Have fun looking at it up. But it's A. I'm underage and the violation and his headline, I don't remember what it said, but the headline was very negative of like slut. Like look what like look how trashy Taylor is kind of thing. And that kind

of concept like it's so invasive and I laugh about it now and I laughed about it probably a week later because there's nothing you can do about it. But that's the kind of press that we're talking about where people were very, or I was in a taxi cab and Papparazzi jumped in the cab with me and it's blinding lights and I go like this to cover my face and my assistant and friend at the time covers my face and it's on the homepage of whatever tabloid site going Taylor Momsson fucked up leaving club because my eyes are kind of rolling back from the, they pick the one shot that looks bad and try to spin some kind of negative story around it. So I was getting a lot of negative press. Looking back, I probably should have hired a publicist, but I didn't know better.

A publicist or a therapist or a bodyguard or Jesus fucking Chris, there's no right answer, though. Dude, I, okay, you saying, though, that you're like, I would probably laugh about it a week later, did you ever have breakdowns over this kind of invasion of privacy and absolute like exploitation? Probably internally, I never showed them. And again, that's where songwriting came into play. Like, that's where the first album. Everything turns around here. Like, I don't, because I don't, it's not all negative. It's, it's more that I learned to take the hard things in my life from any aspect of it, you know, big or small and turn it into music. And that's how I've coped with life. Like, music is my therapy. And it was finding the right, finding the right. Finding the right. right partners musically for me was everything. And so when I did, it changed my life. And I suddenly then had a support system in my band and in Cato or producer who supported me for me and what I wanted to do and my vision. And they had no ulterior motive or like there was nothing from the outside. It was just pure support of like you do what you want to do. And that was

huge. I can't imagine like what you're saying of like that young. girl in Maryland loving more than anything making music and being like I'm really good at this and I'm like finding I'm finding my voice and all of it then kind of getting thrust into this spotlight like you said through a career that you actually weren't really that passionate about or excited about no and I was coming to that's the thing like when I was little I liked it like I didn't but I didn't know better that was just I started it too so it was something I just always did so there was no choice in the matter. It wasn't forced upon me. I wasn't like, you know, going, throwing tantrums going, I don't want to do this and my parents are going, you have to. It

wasn't that. But I wasn't making my own decisions. I didn't, I wasn't seen past it. And when I hit 12, 13, 14 with Gossip Girl and this whole other world is thrown on you that you didn't ask for, like fame. Fame is this thing that you got to kick over your shoulder and it's something you deal with, it comes with it, but when you're not prepared for it, which I don't think anyone ever is, but when it's something that I'm just going to work and doing what I've always done. And now suddenly there's this whole other aspect to it that you have to learn to navigate. Again, and the difference between like being a woman and a man in this industry is like astronomically different because the photo that you just described being on the front page

of someone's website. That is like, so that like is should literally, be illegal of how they're violating your body especially not even especially well it's also child porn right i don't know how that's still like you're underage yeah underage or not yeah complete violation um i was looking up and i just started to see like a lot of the tabloids also that they were referring to sometimes as this wild child or this party girl i know you're giving a little bit this behind the scenes of like that's literally just like a picture that you're in my fucking cab violating you're in my cab first of all i was never really a wild child I had, I was working all the time.

Like, I would go to set on Gossip Girl because I started making the first record while I was still on the show because I formed the band at 14. So I would go to work at 4 in the morning on Gossip Girl, work till 6 at whatever time we wrapped, go straight to the studio and work in the studio from whatever that time was till 2 a.m. Come back sleep for maybe an hour and then do it all again. So I was working all the time. So this whole like wild child persona, it was just the makeup. And my fashion choices, which were a bit outrageous, but very me, like, I was just being authentic. And so I think some of that was curated. And also, I was my image.

My image was a little out there. And I was very, I mean, now I call it pretentious. I look back on it and I go, it's like cringy, how pretentious some of the things I would say was and how I'd speak and carry myself. But that's who I was at the time. And I think some of that pretension came across extra because I was being defensive. Because I felt like I constantly had to defend who I was as a person every time someone asked me a question instead of just answering it kind of honestly, you know? Yes. I think there was like, again, you're so young.

There's like a level of like internally you were trying to protect yourself. And so, like, I get... I was fighting. Yeah. I was more fighting going, this is me, you're getting it wrong. So I felt like I really had to fight to explain who I was. When now as an adult, you just be who you are and relax into it.

Yes. But I also think I was thinking about this is like, I've now interviewed a good amount of people who have been a part of a franchise that was all consuming. and the fandom level is just like you'll be able to describe it right and it's once in sometimes generations like there's these very specific shows that just take the world by storm

and I think the fandom we are watching these romanticized shows that are very curated and there's directors and there's writers rooms and these are really good fucking shows but then we are blurring the lines between Jenny Humphrey is not Taylor Momson and Taylor Momson is not Jenny Humphrey, but people don't give a fuck. And so they want you to be Jenny Humphrey. And you're like, guys, I'm literally,

I am from St. Louis. I'm not from Brooklyn. And so can you talk to me a little bit about having this hard time between separating yourself from Jenny Humphrey and Taylor and like, how the fuck did you mentally do that? Well, I quit. Yeah. Oh, yeah, we're getting there. Yeah. You're like, bitch, I left.

I left. I went, I can't do this. It's, it was a struggle there for years. But what I did was I treated it very much like a job, a professional. I showed up. I did my job. And then I went to the studio. Did you resent her, though?

Like the character? I resented the, I didn't resent. I don't know how to explain this. When I left the show and I was no longer on it. and I was just touring with the band and just putting out music and I quit everything else and that's all I was doing and every question and every interview was still about Gossip Girl and Jenny Humphrey and will you ever go back to acting and blah blah and the list of questions on and on and on the first year you get it the second year you kind of laugh at it by like as it

as it kept going I was going oh I'm never going to outlive this character and that's a that's a weird thing to come to grips with. So you just kind of, I ignored it. You live your life. And I feel like from what we're talking about is like you're going to the studio. You're recording after Gossip Girl. But then like you said, people really didn't want to hear about you as a musician because they're like, well, they didn't take it seriously. Which in their defense, I wouldn't have either. Okay. Talking about that. If I was, if you brought to me a 14-year-old fronted rock band with a chick who was on a soap opera, I would roll my eyes at it and go, yeah, I don't give two fucks about whatever you're trying to show me right now. Fair. So, of course they did.

Like, because I picked the hardest path. I didn't, I, I'm trying to gain credibility in a world that is impossible to gain credibility coming from the circuitability coming from the circuit. that I came from. A, rock and roll, hard as hell. B, a woman in rock and roll, hard as hell. And then three, teenage soap star wants to be taken serious. So it was just, I had everything stacked against me in that way. But, and so there's a lot of, this is fake and she's a poser, and this is who so-and-so writes her songs and blah, blah, blah, none of which was true. I write everything myself I co-produce the records

like it is there is no there's no one but me in the band involved in what we do and it's it's it's incredibly personal and it's incredible and I take it incredibly seriously and I realized very quickly that the only way to overcome that kind of hate

or whatever is to A shut it out and just do it keep going yeah you just do it you keep going you tour we tore the world relentlessly I kept writing songs we kept putting out records and you have to do it the old school way you're like i'm not i'm not going anywhere consistency just keep high here we go again another song i can't because you can't keep explaining yourself there's no point in explaining yourself so i got tired of that and gave up on it and then

that's when things actually started to get easier is when i stopped being so defensive and just was well isn't that fucking beautiful but it sounds it sounds so straightforward but it's so fucking hard oh yeah and again because we're talking like just reminding everyone again 14 15 16 years old like most people are having like their fucking sweet 16s in alabama and being like mom can i get a padded broad and you're trying to pivot as a young woman in an industry where most of the time we are only accepted as one thing and it's like good luck okay we're get now we're gonna get there because now i want to finish off with you said bitch i fucking quit like let's talk about it how did you went How early on did you actually know I want to get the fuck out of here?

It's definitely, when did I actually leave? It was season three? I never watched the show, so my timeline's always messed up. Okay, so you leave, season four, I think season four. Season four. So season one's a whirlwind. It's probably around season two. It's whenever I started the band.

Like when I met, I met Ben and Cato and it changed everything. Did you talk to them, though, about being on this show, being like, guys, I got to get out of here. Oh, yeah. You're like, guys. Oh, yeah. I'm in jail. Get me out. I knew I had to leave.

But at the same time, leaving a career that is so prosperous and it was not easy. Yeah. It was an easy decision for me. Sorry, I shouldn't say not easy. Not easy in the way of like to actually get out of a contract was not easy. Okay. Talk to me. So this was hard.

So it was, it started with a, I don't want to do this anymore, but you're in a lock and key contract with C.W. Warren Brothers, you know, all of that stuff. And it came down to, it was a very long battle of me arguing everyone and go and get me out of this. I can't do this anymore. This is killing me. Like I have something else I want to do with my life and it has nothing to do with this and I can't be stuck here anymore. And, you know, you're called ungrateful and you're called. Like all, you know, all the things that come along with how dare you turn your back on something that's been so successful for you was hard. But it came to- How do you feel about that, though, when people say that? Oh, I just won't fuck you. You don't know what you're talking. Like, you're not in my shoes, so how dare you judge this? That's, so I was very, very defensive.

But it came down to they wouldn't let me out of the contract. The head of Warner Brothers said, fuck Taylor-Mompson. no fucking way. I go to the writers and Stephanie Savage and Josh Schwartz who I love like genuinely love

and explained the situation there's lots of talks about it but they essentially went well we can't let you out of the contract because that's not our job but we can write you out of the show we understand what you want what you're trying to do here

you're not going to be able to act because you're under contract so you can't go take another job and join some other TV show or some other movie and I'm like that's perfectly fine I'm trying to get out like it's not what I want to do anyway it's good

so I really have to credit them for doing that for me because they did not have to and they wrote me out of the show so I could go on tour and be in a band how did you share this with castmates were you close with anyone enough to share it or just kind of say peace out not really I kind of just Irish dipped

and just I wasn't in the script the next week They're like, where's Taylor? I mean, they all knew I was making music. They all knew I had a band. Like, I would play them stuff. And I guess I was working on the first record while I was on the show. So I would come in and play songs and play music and, you know, that kind of stuff. But I don't think anyone knew how serious I was at that stage.

Do you remember your last day on set? Were you like counting down the hours? I remember the last, I actually do now that you bring it up. My last scene was in the, I think it might be the last, I never, again, I've never watched the show, but I think it might be the last scene you see Jenny in. And so it's me like on the train going to live with my mom or whatever the write-out story was. And I'm like leaning on the window. And I think that was the rap scene, which is very fitting. And then I came back for the very finale because just as a fan of television and a fan of the show's

I love, like, when you have the full cast together again for a, like, you want to full circle that and round it out. So you mentioned, which I do think is a great point, that, like, you walked away from a pretty stable job to create this, you know, full career out of this band that making it in the music industry is not easy, as we've kind of talked about. Was your family supportive of this decision? Yeah. I mean, I don't think they, at this point, I was so strong-headed and bulldozing my way into what I wanted in my life that I don't think anyone could have stopped me. How about it's not, think, no one could have stopped me, and yes, some people tried. So I think there was a level of they had to accept that this is what I was doing and either get on board or get out. the dichotomy of this actress to then this musician and you talked about it a little bit of like people not taking it seriously in the very beginning how did that affect though just how you felt about your art because what you've been talking about this whole interview is like how to the core passionate you are about making music and a lot of it you say in the beginning was just like sometimes people weren't even hearing my music this has been from a very young age I've been writing so

So at the beginning of your life, it's been really just for you as this outlet. But then as you're now trying to make a career out of it, and people are still like, oh, fucking Jenny Humphreys trying to start a fucking band. Like, how the fuck did you? It was just like that too. That's exactly. That's the like, and quoted by Alex. Jenny fucking Humphreys trying to start a fucking band.

How fucking annoying. And how did you, I know you said you kind of put your head down. But like, were there moments where you were like, I'm never going to shake this? Oh, yeah. There was definitely feelings of that. Did you lean in any capacity, like persona-wise, heavily into certain aspects to try to really detract from the Jenny aura? Probably. Probably not so calculated. The thing you have to know of me, I really love comedy. And I think everything's funny. And that's kind of how I get through life. I laugh at everything. You got to be able to make light of it or it'll eat you. So anything that I could, like, I really enjoyed shocking people because I thought it was funny. So I was 16, 15, 16, and I was like, oh, I'm going to wear stripper shoes on stage. I'm going to put exes on my tits and flash them. I'm going to wear outfits from Hustler and be as outrageously like pornographic Lolita over the top because it freaks people out and it's super funny.

loved it. And so that became a part, but that's also who I was. Like, I enjoyed that. It wasn't, it wasn't calculated of like, if I do this, I'll get this reaction. Totally. That's how I dressed in my everyday life. But once I started to see the reaction, I went, well, let's just, oh, you don't like my dark eye makeup? Let's make it a little darker. Oh, my really tall heels are bothering you. Let's make them loose sight and put money in them. Like, you know, is that kind of, so I think that that was definitely a fun, but I had fun with it. feel like again some people don't deal with it on the world stage but that is relatable and like playing with your image and as women like outfits and makeup and everything to really like self-express

and I love that you're saying like I yes I of course understood what it was doing but I was still enjoying myself oh yeah because half of it is like people can have social commentary on this but guess what you're now finally doing what you truly fucking love and that's all that matters And I was always my own stylist and my own everything. So, like, I went shopping and I put those things together. And some of them are a little questionable when you look back. But, like, in general, that's that I was being the most authentic version of myself at that time. So what is the story behind the name, The Pretty Reckless?

Story behind The Pretty Reckless. Okay, so we formed the band. We now need a band name, which turns out band name is the hardest thing in the fucking world. Yeah. To come up with, especially in the Internet age, every band. Band names taken or trademarked. So anything you think of, can't use that, can't use that, can't use that. Cato came up with The Reckless, and I went, I love it because I knew I wanted it to be a the

because of the Beatles. And I wanted it to be like one word, not one of those long sentence band names, like something simple and whatever. So The Reckless, perfect, that's the name. We go to trademark it. There's an issue. There's some band from the 70s called The Reckless. We can't get it.

And my lawyer goes, well, just add. a word, like add any word, and people will abbreviate it. You know, like Led Zeppelin. People call it Zeppelin. And she goes, and once people abbreviate it, you'll have, you know, the trademark, it'll be common, or whatever the blue pole is. But then now you can trademark that also. And so we went, okay, what's the pretty reckless? It's better than moderately reckless. Like, sounds good. Didn't really think of it much. And then didn't notice that everyone, or didn't think ahead that everyone would abbreviate it to TPR. not the reckless and hence the pretty reckless was born um but it but i love it now like at the end of the day

the music makes the band name not the other way around so it does no i'm i'm fully the pretty right like i am the pretty reckless at this point you are it's good there is nothing that makes me happier than when i get a compliment from someone and they say Alex you smell delicious okay I mean is there anything better than someone telling you you smell good? No, and you want to know what I'm wearing? You already know what I'm wearing. Eve St. Laurent beauty. Okay, let's go. If you are looking for a new statement fragrance, Eve St. Laurent's iconic Lebe collection is everything you've been looking for to turn heads and feel your most confident. The vanilla fragrances are all the rage and Eve St. Laurent's Lee Vanil Couture is the best one out there. Listen to me, Daddy Gang. It's Leib's first ever limited edition

fragrance. It's sweet yet bold with rich vanilla caviar, rum liqueur, absolute lavender and orange blossom. The most delectable version of Lieb. Of course, the original Lieb-Oda-parfume never misses either. Its iconic fragrance is infused with lavender and orange blossom. It's the most amazing warm floral for every day, which you've heard me talk about. But Daddy Gang, this is your sign. Okay, Leib Vanilla Couture. Boom, here we go. You are going to want to be smelling amazing. And there you go. Shop now at Sephora. You went on tour, obviously, with one of your favorite bands, Soundgarden. And can you just talk to me about how you were offered that opportunity and what it meant to you at that time in your career?

I have pillars of musicians that I look up to and tears of musicians. And when we first formed The Pretty Reckless, my two pillars are the Beatles and Soundgarden hands down. and they're my North Stars and they were for Ben and Cato also and that was one of the first so we formed the Pretty Reckless over the love of those two bands and ACDC and Pink Floyd and the doors

and the list goes on and on but Soundgarden and the Beatles so to get the call first of all SoundGern's been broken up forever and so when their new record came out they got back together I about died of excitement and happiness. And then to go forward and get the call that they are asking us to open for them

was surreal and so validating and so exciting. And I cannot picture a time like a moment in my life where I was more happy than that moment. Like that was the coolest thing to ever happen to me. I was floored. I could not believe it. And it was and it was fantastic. And this is obviously going somewhere sad, but it was the greatest experience and everything about it was phenomenal. I mean, they're incredible. Meeting them was incredible, getting to know them. And you always hear like, you know, don't meet your heroes.

And like, so there was a, I had a bit of nervousness around that of like, what if they aren't this thing I've built up in my head? Oh, no, they're exactly what I built up in my head. They're kind. They're awesome. Their musicality is off the chart. it's ridiculous like their records speak to me on a level

that no other band does and it's like I feel like I feel like I knew them before I met them because I and I think a lot of people with their favorite bands feel that way like they know their it feels like a family member it's something that I've been listening to forever

as a part of you and so to have that become a reality was just an insane insane experience not to mention they're like it's kind of as credible as it can possibly get and so to come from everything we just talked about and now be offered this tour

the acceptance that I felt from the rock community and from them putting their stamp of approval on me and the band was just massive like it came with so many layers of exciting weight to get that call it was just the greatest thing ever

God, I fucking love them, Alex. I love them so fucking much. Again, it's like, I think anyone that is in the world of art, like there are, like you just said, the pillars which you look up to, whether it's your director and you look up to some of the most iconic directors that you have in your brain that inspire and influence you in so many ways. Like, you wouldn't be the pretty reckless in the exact way you are had you not had that influence from them. So it's like the passion that you have is understandable because it's had such an impact on you and then obviously the tragic it leads to it leads to tragedy um can you talk to me about the lead singer passes away during that tour yeah um well it was the last night of tour and we played the last show in detroit and we all

said bye to this again sometime you know see you on the road we all got on our tour buses went to bed and i was woken up the next morning really early because the news had been passed around the camp and i was dead asleep and uh first of all i'm not as we've talked about i'm not a morning person so i think the like my brain takes a while to wake up so hearing the news that someone I just spoke to and hugged and talked to a couple hours ago is no longer here I couldn't process it

at first like it I was confused I was going what are you saying to me right now and that turned into sinking in which turned into the biggest pit in my stomach of devastation and just the worst feeling in the world of like I I mean I felt the fuck apart I like

fell on the ground and that was kind of the start of my what we can call my dark period it was just it was so shocking and so like everything about that experience for me was so traumatic that I still get shaky talking about it like it's something I try not to think about too much

but that is brutal it's brutal beyond like words because you're like what we're talking about too is like some of the highest highs of your life and then immediately wrapped into the lowest lows of your life within like a two hour period and then about a year later one of your other best friends yeah passed away yeah that's cato who i've spoken about through cato kendovala he produced all our records he's my best friend in the world um you know we're inseparable like talk

every day kind of friend and uh he was essentially the fifth member of the pretty reckless he just didn't tour with us and we lost him in a motorcycle accident and it was as I've said before that was the that was the nail in the coffin for me like I was on a after Chris I was in the start of a downward spiral and we continued to tour I quickly came to a place that I like a realization that I was not in a place to be public like I needed some time with us I had to disappear and go try to handle this grief that was fucking eating me. And the way that I've always dealt with hard things in life is to write about them, as I've said, and to turn it into music.

And so I was finally starting to kind of come to grips with Chris. Not well. Like, I was definitely not doing well. But I was going, we got to get out of this. Let's get in the studio. Let's make some music. like let's push forward and do what we've always done in hard times. And we booked the studio.

And as soon as that happened, I got the call that Cato had passed away in a motorcycle accident. And it floored me. So it was kind of a giant one-two punch because they were not that far apart from each other. And I just went off the rails. Like I didn't handle that well, to say the least. Like I got very heavy into substance abuse and this cloud of depression that I couldn't shake. And so something that I was teetering with before really took on a life of its own where I essentially gave up. I gave up on life.

And when everything I love is dead, what's the fucking point? When you were going through that period in your life, were you alone? Like, who did you have around you to keep you getting up every more? morning. I mean, it's the band. I mean, the band is my family, you know, Ben Mark and Jamie, but I did a very good job of isolating myself at that time period. And, you know, they reach out, they check in, they come over, we play, we, you know, whatever we did. But I, a lot of the time I just showed off my phone, you know, like I was kind of unreachable. um and that was very calculated that was very thought like i knew i wasn't in a good place

and a there's like shame that comes with that if you don't want to be seen and b i also knew that i had kind of given up like i had to like oh like i had to make a very conscious choice at a point where i was either going to live or i was going to die and i had to had to either stop everything I was doing and get my life together or this was going to kill me. And I luckily chose to move forward. But that was, it was, it was that serious, you know, like it wasn't a, I was in this whole blackness that I didn't know how to get out of. And I think the bigger thing was that I was perfectly fine with that. Like I was perfectly fine kind of staying in that place and fading away into nothing and that was fine with me like and so it was

it took a long time to get to the other side of that right dude grief is like so fucking terrifying because you sometimes it's just easier to sink into it so much easier because you're actually actively having to climb out and then there's the guilt of like but they don't get to experience life anymore and so it's like your head can go to really clearly yes dark fucking places how did you begin to pull yourself out and like yes you had music but like well it's it's it it is though like it sounds cliche even when I say it out loud it sounds like made up but the hard I mean one of the hardest things though was was dealing with all of this like music's been my solace it's always been the thing I can turn to listening to records or whatever that makes you feel

better. And after Chris and Cato, I didn't have that anymore. Everything I listened to made it worse. Like, I couldn't listen to SoundGuard anymore. Couldn't listen to the Beatles because we listened to Beatles of Cato. Couldn't, like, couldn't listen to our own music because I made it with Cato. Like everything, every band had a memory attached to it. Every song had an emotion that I couldn't handle. And so suddenly music was not in my life anymore. And that was the scariest thing. And that was the scariest thing for me because I suddenly this thing that's my identity that has gotten me through everything is no more along with these people. So it was like, it was almost like three losses at the same time. And eventually I got to, it's time is the answer, but eventually I got to a place

where I could start listening to records again, not Soundgarden, but I went, where did this start? Like I tried to, I very calculatedly went, where did I fall in love with this? Like, how do I find myself again? And so I started at the very beginning, which was the Beatles, where it's the first band I fell in love with. It's the reason I started writing songs. It's, you know, all the things started there, listened to every Beatles record, listen to the anthology, listened to over and over and over to find joy in it again. And then moved on from that in kind of almost chronological order of the bands that I fell in love with growing up to now.

eventually ending in Soundgarden and I found a place where I could listen to it and have it bring me some kind of comfort again but also writing the record Death by Rock and Roll so I made so having to get that out that record kind of poured out of me in a way that other records have not

some songs have but not full complete albums like that and that record was so inspired and it wasn't for anyone and I didn't have the intention of putting it out. I didn't know if we'd record it. I didn't know any of that because how are we going to make a record without Cato? I don't know. There's so many things to overcome. But the writing of that record was something that I had to do for me.

And it's almost like I didn't write it. But I think by getting it out, that was the first step of me starting to be able to turn the corner. That's really beautiful because I think it's so. So it's so isolating when you're going through that, like you just said, and to have to almost reintroduce yourself to something you love so much, but that now is causing you so much pain because of the remembering of what was connected to that is torture almost. But you also have to always remember in grief that, like, most of these people would never want you to leave the one thing that connected you guys. And slowly the goal is to get back to it so you can feel them through, I'm sure, the music and you can feel them when you're making it. But even the concept of making it in the beginning is so fucking hard. So hard. It seems impossible. Because at the end of the day, I try to say Cato's name every day. Or I don't even try to. I just still do. Because it keeps him around. You're doing it. Yeah. But he's also, he was such a big part of my life that there's no way to not talk about him. And he's still such a big part of my life. And I think that that's, that's the key to loss and to is I learned that while that pain never goes away and that that feeling of you know missing them and you know all the things that come with with grief

the intensity does so it's it's kind of like when it happens it's you're sliced down the middle you're bleeding everywhere like blood gushing and as time passes that wound heals and you're left with a massive scar and that scar you're not bleeding all over the floor anymore but now that's a part of you and so I look at everyone I've lost is like they're a scar I carry with me every day

and I'm proud to have those scars I'm proud that they're a part of my life and that I loved them that much to be able to feel the way I feel you know I appreciate you sharing that because I think I've lightly talked about grief on the show but I think

it's always so one yes subjective, but when you put it like that, I think it can just help a lot of people, because I'm sure there's literally someone watching that's like day one starting to do the battle of like get through it. It's brutal. And the only thing I would say is that like it's what death by rock and roll turned into is that at the end of the day, this record, the record's very hopeful. Like it starts off very dark and very bleak, but there's this kind of positive turn towards the end of it that there is light at the end of this tunnel that seems impossible. seems never ending. And if you can just wait it out, you will get to the other side. And that's the

thing that I say to anyone who's struggling with depression or loss or anything even remotely close to this kind of feeling is that it does get better. And it's the fucked up thing about that is when people say that to you when you're in it. You want to punch them in the face. So real. You're like shut the fuck up. What do you know? What the fuck do you know it gets better? Like what a cliche thing to say. And then you live it and you're like, oh, fuck it does. But it. It does. It does. It does.

And you can just hang on long enough to get to the other side. There is another side waiting for you. Walk me through what you have felt with double standards when it comes when it comes to music and the music industry for you as a woman? I'll be honest. I get, it's probably an unpopular answer, but I, I tend to, I get asked a lot what it's like to be a woman in rock and roll and a woman in music and the doubles, you know, all the things you just said.

And while yes, it exists, I kind of don't look at it that way. Like I kind of live in my own, maybe I live in my own world, my own mental bubble, but I look at it like music is music good music is good music gender doesn't really matter and most music's crap like that's how I see it as like

I want to compete with the best people and so the only thing with not the only thing but the thing with being a woman in the music industry is that you get compared to women in the music industry not that that's a bad thing there's a lot of amazing women but you're cutting out an entire sect of musicians

and not even putting those two next to each other because of a gender thing. So I don't really know because I kind of just don't really think of it that way. But I think that's like the best way to look at it and I think that doesn't just pertain to music which I agree with you and I'm going to take that as advice moving forward

because I think you're right. There's so many industries that we just talk about this woman is she as good as this woman or like oh these actors or oh these politicians or oh these you know hosts or whatever it be yeah and most of the time you're only comparing them to the same gender and i agree with you it's like so limiting it's so limiting especially as a woman it's like it's also a lot of times it's derogatory because it's like well for the women yes you guys are pretty good and you're like what does that mean like i remember i remember when i signed a deal for my podcast in the early days of my career and everyone was like the first like

woman did blah blah and I was like we know but like the deal is like bigger than most men so shouldn't we just be like take out the gender take out the gender why are you focusing on that? Like not like for a woman you're like what does I have to do with everyone knows I'm a woman like everyone right right so that I think is um I think that's great advice for people listening it's just like yes you can't control the way that people are going to spin it, but you can control how you like digest it and you own it of like, no, I'm not going to let that affect what I'm doing. No, it doesn't affect what I'm doing at all. And I mean, I own my femininity. Like, I love being a woman most of the time, you know, except for, you know, except for that time around the month. But it's, it's, it's, you just have to look at it like, like you said, it. You don't let it affect what you're doing. Like, I'm assuming, like, who do you look up to? Who are your heroes?

Some of them are women and some of them are men. Exactly. It's not, yeah. You don't only have women idols. Right, right. You know? It's a good point. So why are you looking at it like that?

And at the same time, when you put the woman stats in there, like, our stats are really good. Like, we have joined a bunch of number ones and, you know, breaking records and that kind of thing. So, okay. But the way I, I like, handle my, you know, my art, the music I'm making. That's that never comes. into my mind at all because why would it? I wake up like that. I wake up a woman. Facts. Um, okay, Taylor, this is Caller Daddy. Yes. Let's talk about your dating life. Okay. What is it like trying to date as a musician? Huh. Um, I, I don't know if it has anything

to do with musician and probably just me as a person, but I think that I'm a very, I'm a very, very trusting person and I'm a very guarded person at the same time. Um, so anyone I let into my life in any form of a relationship, there's, there's a life bond there. Like, that I'm, I'm not letting people into my life that are fleeting. It's just not, I mean, you have those people in your life, but it's, but I'm always looking for something that has a, has depth to it that is filling something that I need in my life and that's from friends to relationships to whatever like it's managers it doesn't matter like they have to have a

there's a quality about that that um that is deep I'm very normal I think love um so there's that what is a non-negotiable you look for in someone that you're dating uh well kind funny got to be funny

got to make me laugh um smart and and we have to have the same musical taste or that's just not going to work you're not going to work at all you're also like you also have to think my music is amazing thank you very much worship the ground i walk on blah not just the classic just the tad yeah you have some songs that you talk about unhealthy relationship dynamics what is something that you used to put up with when you were younger that you definitely wouldn't tolerate now in romantic relationships. Using, like using me. I think I definitely went through a phase of dating guys that weren't interested in me for me.

They were interested in what I had to give them and what I had to offer them, especially around the show. Like, well, if I date her, I can go to this party and meet so-and-so and blah, blah, blah. And I'm talking about people that were in the industry at the time and stuff, but weren't necessarily as successful and using me for something other than myself and and when you're in it you don't see that and when you get out of it the anger that comes with that and the betrayal of like I just gave you myself and you weren't interested in that at all like is super fucked up feeling oh yeah it can lead to some fucking trust issues yeah so I can that I can just I get but goodness is I can

really see through that now so yeah and you were young and it's like and i was young that makes sense um have you ever been cheated on yes how did you find out um i walked in on it taylor yeah taylor yep no you did oh yeah i did oh yeah i did at a party walked into a back room looking for a bathroom or drink or i don't know whatever fuck i was doing and did they know you were at the party too oh yeah and i was probably coming from an event or something and then stopped by later but oh yeah no walked in on like full naked like full on sex happening did you just be like okay I'm not gonna walk out or what was your reaction I left and I went with my best friend at the time and we went and got a tattoo what is the tattoo I have a teeny tiny star

it's my one and only tattoo how did you come up with the star you're like I just got she done I don't know yeah like let's we got matching tattoos that was did the person call you after Stop. Yeah. Did they call and apologize or they never... I'm trying to remember now how this all went down. Taylor. Oh, there was a big like, you know, fuck you match and I never could lose my fucking number.

Like, can't do that shit. You got a cute tattoo out of it though. I got my one and only. That's your only tat? Oh my god. Post cheating, classic. Love that for you. The best part was it was St. Mark Street and my friend is a guy and he got one here too.

This is like twice as big as mine. mine, mine took 10 times longer than his does. Was it painful? It was totally, it was right on the rib. But the guy doing it, I think, really just like staring at my boob because my teeny tiny star took forever. It's like, it essentially, it's a mole. You're like, babe, this is actually a dot.

Like, we've been done. It's a dot. Like, I'm essentially Phoebe and friends when she gets her mom tattooed on her and it's just the dot. Like that's. And this motherfucker's been done for an hour and you're like, yeah. Are we still going? Okay.

Yeah. Okay. Well, good to know. You're one tat. And would you get more or no? No. You're done. No, I'm done. Beatles didn't have tattoos. I'm good. Oh, I love that. That's like your compass north star. It is. It's like, Beatles didn't have tattoos. Taylor won't have tattoos. I'm also over-evolving. So, like, I don't want to, it's hard for, I'm too indecisive. I'm the same way. Like, I don't even know what I would want on my body for forever. So I'm just not going to do it. I think, like, I draw on myself a lot. And I use those, like, inkbox pens and the ones that last because that's fun. But then it fades. Okay. Let's talk about your Christmas EP. I know we mentioned it earlier, but tis the fucking season. This is, it's so good. Thank you. I was listening to it on my way here. And first of all, I want you to know that hearing you put together the song with your six-year-old self, I was getting emotional. It made me emotional. Yeah.

Like hearing it back for the first time, like you're singing, it's one thing, but then actually listening to it come through the speakers after the first take of it. It's beautiful. You well up. Like there's something so... And I love how the EP It's also like you did such a brilliant job of like there's some slow there's some rock there like you really gave us

everything that we needed and more the lyrics are perfect. Like I'm so excited to be listening to this during Christmas time. The Grinch is also re-releasing in theaters for the 25th anniversary. What does it mean to you

that that movie and now full circle with this EP? like this is now just becoming a part of so many people's like Christmas traditions. Well, I think that like over the years, realizing that Grinch was never going to go away, I became more and more fond of it and seeing how much joy that it brings to people, you know, old and young and every year people discovering it and like just loving it so much makes me really happy to be a part of something that brings that much happiness to other people. How very Cindy Lou Who of me. But it's true. Like it makes me it makes me nostalgic and

you know proud that I can bring smiles to people around the world every year. Or that I'm up, not me, but I'm a part of something that does. Have you rewatched it? Oh, I've definitely watched Grinch. You have? Yes. Of course. I don't watch it every year, but I definitely watch like a few scenes every year and this year I want to go see it in theaters. Because can you fucking imagine, I'm looking into camera, can you imagine being sitting in the fucking movie theater and you're sitting in like the fifth row, the sixth row, you turned, you're right and you're like, Taylor fucking Momson? Wait, Cindy Lou, who? I'm dead. That would be crazy. Right. But you got to just roll up though. Oh, totally. And have it be like a public theater.

Oh, yeah. You just come by. I'm not posh at all. I'm not, I'm not, I'm New York. Like, I'll go, just go to theater. The way that that would be just the most. The way that would be just the most like healing experience. No, that's, that is really fucking cool. Okay, we're coming up into the new year. Yes, we are. What are you looking forward to in this next year of your life? Oh my goodness. I'm looking forward to so much. We are going back out on tour with ACDC. So that's going to be amazing. It's been amazing so far, but the fact that we get to continue this journey with them is incredible. They're just the coolest. They're the loudest. They're the loudest. band you've ever heard in your life in the most awesome way possible they're the coolest people

they're so kind but their live show is a schooling in what rock and roll is um and to get to watch that every night is just mind-blowing um so to continue that with them is very exciting for me so i can't wait for that and we're and tour really like the long and short of it is tour and new music and tour and new music and The cycle continues. But it's always fun to put out new music and tour new songs because it's start of a new, you know, new era. And that's always a really fun place to be in. I appreciate you being so open today because I think as an interviewer, there's such a clear pattern that I'm just starting to see of like, and this is why I love my job so much as I get to sit down with people that maybe people have understood them through like a lens that just was not their personal lens. It's

through different pieces of other people's art, especially if you're an actress. And I think it's beautiful to like hear from you exactly what that time was like in your life. It doesn't mean people can't still enjoy gossip girl. It doesn't mean people can't still go and enjoy The Grinch. But hearing how it was affecting you as a real human being, that's work. And I think sometimes people forget, like, that was a job for you. Yes. And so as much as we can enjoy it as consumers, like your real human being that was getting paid to do these things. And who the fuck? enjoys their work at all times. No one. No one. No one. So like giving some great. Although I take that back. I enjoy my work now every minute of every day now. Like getting to, the only thing that

you don't enjoy is the actual like travel. The physical travel of tour is brutal. So we can always find something. But other than, but like the fact that I get to play music as a career and call it a job is insanity. And it's like I'm so lucky. It's not. Playing's a pleasure. plain is it's just fun and it's what it should be and i think that that's i feel so fortunate but you're also just the exact example and i've always said this and i know it is a privilege but it's like if you are able to turn your purpose and your passion like into your job or your career it is such a privilege and it's so incredible to experience it but the way that you talk about acting verse being a musician it's like there is no comparison you light up that you light up that

This is who you are. This is what you are. And so, yes, you were known as something. But I think it's beautiful to now let the world fully lean in and get to know you as this version of yourself because this is your true self. And that's what we want to celebrate. It's like let people be who the fuck they are. End of story. Goodbye. Oh, my God. Thank you so much for having me on. You're kind of like popping my podcast, Cherry. I'm not a bit, I think maybe I've done a couple, but I'm not like a, I don't do this a lot. Well, you crushed. That was amazing. I hope that was all right. Thank you. Taylor. I really appreciate it. You make this very.

comfortable in every way, shape, or form. That was the goal. Thank you. Seriously, thank you for coming on it. Today's episode was sponsored by Eve Saint Laurent's iconic Lieb-Oda-parfam. This daring yet distinctly warm floral and feminine fragrance is, for those who do what they want and dare to be exactly who they are. Shop now at Sephora.